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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: 24KT on August 09, 2006, 05:07:15 PM
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August 8, 2006 at 21:25:49
Are the Words "Israel" and "Jews" Synonymous?
by Danny Schecter
http://www.opednews.com (http://www.opednews.com)
See this page (http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/showsubjects.php?tid=/Middle+East+Conflict+Israel+Palestine+Le) for links to articles on OpEdNEws that articulate both sides on the issues in the middle east. It is the goal of OpEdNews to air opinions from both sides to stretch the envelope of discussion and communication. Hate statements are not accepted. Discussions of issues and new ideas for solutions are encouraged.
I remember reading a story once about some of the Jewish fighters during the years of the Nazi genocide who escaped from the Warsaw Ghetto through the sewer system into another part of the city. Bedraggled and dazed, they came up into a city that was going about its business as usual, largely unaware of what was happening in a part of town that had been sealed off. (The street cars that went through the ghetto had to darken all windows so travelers couldn't see what was going on.)
The escapees sought out brave members of the Polish resistance who were also fighting German aggression against their country. They too were at war with the invaders and occupiers. But they soon found that their "comrades in arms" couldn't accept what they were being told, couldn't believe the extent of the forced starvation and mass murder taking place just a few blocks away. They couldn't image the extent of the barbarity, perhaps because it wasn't happening to them. They were in denial.
The desperate Jews were shaken. They too couldn't believe that they were unable to communicate the full horror of their plight and make it believable, even to people who shared some of their political goals. That realization turned into demoralization that turned to despair. They then felt guilty about fleeing and surviving while their friends and families were being killed.
They looked around at the normality and apparent indifference of carefree Warsaw, and decided to go back, back to their fate.
While there is never any exact parallel with today's events--- and no, I don't believe that yesterday's victims of Nazism have become today's Nazis--- there is one aspect of this terribly tragic story that has relevance: the inability of many people to transcend their own pain (or point of view) to empathetically connect with the pain of others or even hear the critics.
As someone who grew up in a community that each year marked the Warsaw Ghetto uprising, its lessons were drilled into my head from an early age. I was taught to support those who resist aggression and stand for human rights. And as anyone who saw the film Schindler's List knows, it was not just Jews who joined that fight. There were "righteous" Christians and people of all nationalities.
Yet, at the same time, I believed that the bitter history of Jewish suffering conveyed on us a special responsibility to speak out when others are suffering and yearning for freedom. Is that not the key lesson of the annual Passover Seder and the idea of solidarity and community concern? Is that not why activist "Jews for Justice" rallied to the cause of Bosnia's embattled Muslims? Is that not why many Jews have always been on the front lines of the fight for humanity and social change?
Like many other Jews, I was drawn to the civil rights movement and other social justice movements. During those years, I was privileged to personally meet and talk with a Muslim leader named Malcolm X who introduced me to his traditions. Since then I have traveled in the Muslim world and met many people who respect democracy and believe in the need for a just resolution of the Israel-Palestinian crisis.
I know of many Jews who share that concern, and, in fact, surveys have shown over the years that ordinary members of the Jewish community are far more politically progressive about the need for peace than those who claim to be their "leaders," self-righteous elite who sit on top of vast fundraising machines. They have well-paid jobs specializing in spreading fear and alarm about anti-Semitism as a tool for frequent solicitations and psychological conditioning. The memory of the Holocaust is still manipulated for political purposes.
There is a well-financed Israeli lobby that funds politicians and dominates the op-ed pages. What else explains the dramatic difference in public opinion in this country and overseas? Why do polls show Americans and Israelis backing the war while the world calls for a cease fire?
These organizations operate like a well orchestrated machine to enforce a "party line" and, in some well-documented cases; groups like the Anti Defamation League even spied on and demonized fellow Jews who feel differently. Pro-peace organizations like Tikkun have had to buy ads in the NY Times to get heard.
Jews who support Darfur are acceptable; those who oppose Israel's bombing of Lebanon are deemed extremists.
Don't they know that human rights are universal and cannot be invoked selectively?
Israel cannot be given a special pass: it has to obey international laws and UN resolutions, not just the ones it agrees with.
Just as the shelling of civilians by Hezbollah is unacceptable, so is the widespread Israeli devastation of a neighboring country, one ironically, with many people who wanted to live in peace with Israel. Almost every journalist who has looked at this war has noted that Israel used the kidnapping of its soldiers as pretexts for war plans that were years in the making. The Hezbollah rockets were fired after Israel's bombing began, not before.
If anything, this Bush-backed war will radicalize Lebanon as it is the Middle East and fuel more anti-Semitism and hostility to Israel. It has turned Hezbollah into a hero in the region.
Somehow many in our media have turned the words Israel and Jews into synonyms, as if all Jews are hard-line Zionists who automatically back the policies and practices of the Israeli government, every Israeli government. Ironically, there is more debate among Jews in Israel on these issues than is reported, or somehow allowed in the United States where Jewish critics of Israel policies are often ignored or labeled "self-hating" Jews.
Many organizations, especially in Democratic Party circles (and even the blogosphere) would prefer to ignore the issue for fear of being divisive or attacked. Notice how many in the Congress rallied to Israel's side before the facts were even in. Notice how few, even in the anti-war contingent, had the courage to speak out. (Read Tom Hayden's recent piece (http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_tom_hayd_060724_tom_hayden_3a_things_c.htm) apologizing for how skillfully he was co-opted by the Israeli Lobby when he ran for office in California.)
Some organizations are just shilling for the Israeli government-- no matter what it does-- out of both tribal loyalty and political fealty to neo-con/Likudnik politics, a perspective which enjoys unrivalled and disproportionate access to the media and its think-alike punditocracy. Some are just money generating mechanisms sending money to Israel, a developed county that gets $3 billion dollars annually in US aid intended for developing nations. The Federation which supports many social services just sent millions. One wonders how much of this will go to Israeli Arabs who have also had homes bombed?
It's not surprising that many Jews are unaware of what's happening largely because of the information diet they are exposed to, every day and in all media--just like the rest of us. They are expected to recite the "official" mantra�"not think for themselves.
On Tuesday, I received an invitation from the president of the American Jewish Congress. It was for a 4 day "Israel Solidarity Mission." Cost per person: $1000.
It is described as "Not only solidarity but much more!"
"Touring the embattled North of Israel and personally sharing our friendship with families there who have lived through the terror of Katyusha rockets falling on their homes;
"Visiting an air force base where we will thank the brave pilots who are defending Israel and see, up close, the advanced F-16-I jets they fly;
"Receiving a briefing from the Brigade Commander and his troops defending against Hamas terrorism in Gaza;
"Meeting with top officials of Israel's government to hear what lies ahead and to learn how we can help."
There's not one word of interest or concern here with the civilian victims of bombing in Lebanon or the conditions of Palestinians in Gaza. Not one word of compassion or interest in meeting prominent Israelis who feel this war is not in Israel's interest. It strikes me as more reinforcement for the already deeply held prejudices.
Writing in the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz-- which far too many American Jews know nothing about-- and in fact know little about Israeli political reality (preferring to live with feel-good myths dating back to Leon Uris' book Exodus)--Nehemia Shtrasler contends:
"Israel has always said it has nothing against the Lebanese people and does not want to harm Lebanon, only the PLO (then) and Hezbollah (now). But in practice, it has harmed, destroyed and humiliated the Lebanese time after time. Their fate did not interest us."
What does interest us? What should interest us? I know the great Rabbi Hillel once said, "If you are not for yourself, who will be for me." But then, he added, let us not forget, "If I am not for others, what am I? And if not now, when?"
And then, there is also, always, that golden rule, forgotten by war-makers across the ages: "Do not do to others what you would not have them do to you."
http://www.Mediachannel.Org (http://www.Mediachannel.Org)
New Dissector Danny Schechter is ?blogger in chief? at Mediachannel.Org (http://www.mediachannel.org) and author of "The Death of the Media and the Fight to Save Democracy" News. His new film is about numbers -- In Debt We Trust (http://www.indebtwetrust.com)
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monster cut and paste.
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I have to go to sleep in the next 6 hours or so, so I didn't read your post, but yes, pretty much.
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I didn't read that but the answer is a simple resounding "HELL FUCKING NO" The question isn't even worth asking. One would have be be a complete idiot to say they were one in the same. I have heard idiots say exactly that. I can't help but wonder if a Jew stops being a Jew if he's anti-Zionist and opposes the state of Israel. I have had people tell me, there is no such Jew. ::)
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I have to go to sleep in the next 6 hours or so, so I didn't read your post, but yes, pretty much.
HI-YAHHHHHHHH!!!....... Idiot.......
wax on...... wax off........ ::)
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HI-YAHHHHHHHH!!!....... Idiot.......
wax on...... wax off........ ::)
maybe I was wrong, but I thought everyone who lived in Israel was a jew.
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This craps stems from when they were trying to say anyone who is Anti-Zionist is Anti-Semetic. That only works if Israel and Jews are one. They are not... Period.
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This craps stems from when they were trying to say anyone who is Anti-Zionist is Anti-Semetic. That only works if Israel and Jews are one. They are not... Period.
I actually don't care, but since she took 4 hours to make the post i figured I'd reply :-\
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maybe I was wrong, but I thought everyone who lived in Israel was a jew.
If that statement were true and it is not but if it were, that still wouldn't equal Israel and Jews being Synonymous would it?
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I actually don't care, but since she took 4 hours to make the post i figured I'd reply :-\
to Zionists saying that you don't care is enough for them to call you a holocaust denier. ::)
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I actually don't care, but since she took 4 hours to make the post i figured I'd reply :-\
It took her 4 hours to copy and past that? Now that is funny :P My faith in Jag wanes day by day...
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to Zionists saying that you don't care is enough for them to call you a holocaust denier. ::)
I didn't see the holocaust personallly, I could care less if it happened or not. Jews make good movies, I like movies, they serve a purpose.
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I didn't see the holocaust personallly, I could care less if it happened or not. Jews make good movies, I like movies, they serve a purpose.
Wow, you clearly know a lot about this topic... Very good choice, your choosing to speak on this... ::)
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Wow, you clearly know a lot about this topic... Very good choice, your choosing to speak on this... ::)
Agreed. I know nothing on this topic. but I still like movies ;D
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no
but
jaguarenterpirses and boring, attention whore are
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monster cut and paste.
that's all this crazy bitch does.
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Can you imagine vince g, jag and mower in the same room AT THE SAME TIME!!!!!!!!
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Can you imagine vince g, jag and mower in the same room AT THE SAME TIME!!!!!!!!
Vince and Jaguar were arguing for 2 days over whose company was better, so I offered to order from both and report back. Neither one of them said a word after that. Great business people. ::)
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Can you imagine vince g, jag and mower in the same room AT THE SAME TIME!!!!!!!!
Eeeeeeeek! ;)
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/FrightenedMouse.gif)
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Vince and Jaguar were arguing for 2 days over whose company was better, so I offered to order from both and report back. Neither one of them said a word after that. Great business people. ::)
Jag gets on my nerves but she means well. Vince is just a cu*t!
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Jag gets on my nerves but she means well. Vince is just a pussy!
both were so busy arguing about their companies that they turned away business. ???
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For a while, I thought Jag was actually Vince in drag :P
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For a while, I thought Jag was actually Vince in drag :P
you're a mean, mean man. >:(
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both were so busy arguing about their companies that they turned away business. ???
Oh I believe it lol. Vince is a very sad sad man.
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It took her 4 hours to copy and past that? Now that is funny :P My faith in Jag wanes day by day...
Do you really think I would spend 4 hours copying & pasteing anything?
Puleaze!!! You destroy my faith in you by even entertaining such a notion. ::)
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Are the Words "Israel" and "Jews" Synonymous?
No, but the words "muslim" and "terrorist" are.
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Last night I saw for the first time Schiendler's list. Man I'm still digesting it.
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Jew = Judah
Judah is the only tribe of Israel still intact.
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I actually don't care, but since she took 4 hours to make the post i figured I'd reply :-\
Probably took her 4 seconds to do a cut and paste. I bet you dollars to donuts she didn't even read it herself.
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no
but
jaguarenterpirses and boring, attention whore are
Pathetic thing is I bet she doesn't even read the crap she posts via cut and paste. She is just trolling for attention.
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For a while, I thought Jag was actually Vince in drag :P
Vince is better looking.
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No, but the words "muslim" and "terrorist" are.
Sure seems to be headed that way.
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I took this quote from the link. I don't see how they're not synomous with one another. Of course I'm not a Middle East expert but considering Israel was established for Jews I would think it's not a stretch to say they're synomous with one another.
"After the Second World War, Britain decided to let the United Nations decide what to do with Palestine.
The United Nations suggested separating Palestine into two countries, one Arab and one Jewish.
The Arab leaders said no to the plan, but the Jewish leaders accepted it and declared the state of Israel. The President of the United States gave his support to the new state."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/find_out/guides/world/middle_east/newsid_1909000/1909217.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/find_out/guides/world/middle_east/newsid_1909000/1909217.stm)
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I took this quote from the link. I don't see how they're not synomous with one another. Of course I'm not a Middle East expert but considering Israel was established for Jews I would think it's not a stretch to say they're synomous with one another.
"After the Second World War, Britain decided to let the United Nations decide what to do with Palestine.
The United Nations suggested separating Palestine into two countries, one Arab and one Jewish.
The Arab leaders said no to the plan, but the Jewish leaders accepted it and declared the state of Israel. The President of the United States gave his support to the new state."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/find_out/guides/world/middle_east/newsid_1909000/1909217.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/find_out/guides/world/middle_east/newsid_1909000/1909217.stm)
the bible predicted that Isreal would become a nation again
Israel = Jacob
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the bible predicted that Isreal would become a nation again
Israel = Jacob
Israel = land given to the Jews by the U.N. and renamed Israel by the Jews.
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Israel = land given to the Jews by the U.N. and renamed Israel by the Jews.
Genesis 32:28
Then the man said, "Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome."
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Israel = land given to the Jews by the U.N. and renamed Israel by the Jews.
Britain owned the land that was to become Israel.
The skanky muslims only claim to ownership of the land is via invasions.
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Couldn't be bothered to read all that, but yeah they are.
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Britain owned the land that was to become Israel.
The skanky muslims only claim to ownership of the land is via invasions.
Yes, but Britain gave the U.N. the power to decide what would happen with the land. The U.N. chose to give it to the Jews. The Jews chose to name is Israel.
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For a while, I thought Jag was actually Vince in drag :P
Ok, I've retracted this statement for the record. I didn't believe it... I was just being an asshole :-\
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Pathetic thing is I bet she doesn't even read the crap she posts via cut and paste. She is just trolling for attention.
Besides bmacsys' pathetic NEED to attack various people on the board it's become clear that a large part of the anger-management issues residing with this little pussy are based on the inadequacies he feels being on a BB board while clearly never even working out.
WTF is this little turd doing on a BB site with 14" arms? He doesn't look like he's ever even picked up a weight in his life. That's in addition to dressing like a fag.
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Besides bmacsys' pathetic NEED to attack various people on the board it's become clear that a large part of the anger-management issues residing with this little pussy are based on the inadequacies he feels being on a BB board while clearly never even working out.
WTF is this little turd doing on a BB site with 14" arms? He doesn't look like he's ever even picked up a weight in his life. That's in addition to dressing like a fag.
I wasn't afraid to post a pic. Obviously you are.
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Besides bmacsys' pathetic NEED to attack various people on the board it's become clear that a large part of the anger-management issues residing with this little pussy are based on the inadequacies he feels being on a BB board while clearly never even working out.
WTF is this little turd doing on a BB site with 14" arms? He doesn't look like he's ever even picked up a weight in his life. That's in addition to dressing like a fag.
Little Lord Fauntlroy, I was 6'2" 215 pounds there. I played football. My arms were 16.5" How big are you. 5'7" 160? Why not post a pic little man?
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Bmacsys is merely an irrelevant non-issue, ...let's get this thread back on track.
Couldn't be bothered to read all that, but yeah they are.
CJ, would it surprises you or anyone to know that not all Jews are supporters of Israel or Zionism?
See: Jews Against the State of Israel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBldNjquG28) <--click me
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Bmacsys is merely an irrelevant non-issue, ...let's get this thread back on track.
CJ, would it surprises you or anyone to know that not all Jews are supporters of Israel or Zionism?
See: Jews Against the State of Israel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBldNjquG28) <--click me
Jag's right.
Marxist Socialist Leftists, many of whom are jews, Noam Chomsky the most notable, hate Israel with a passion
Ironically, these same losers supported the creation of Israel. That support ended when Israel start kicking some ass.
Leftists tends to divide the world into two catagories: Oppressor and Oppressed
If your not one, you're the other.
Israel vis a vis Jews were the oppressed when they were being persecuted in Europe. But when they started handing out beatdowns in the Middle East they became the oppressor. The same way the United States is seen as an oppressor of arab people. That Arabs in this country have more freedom and rights than they did in their former countries means nothing to the left.
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Jag's right.
Marxist Socialist Leftists, many of whom are jews, Noam Chomsky the most notable, hate Israel with a passion
Fascists, Zionists, many of whom are both Jews and non Jews, hate anyone who opposes Zionism.
Ironically, these same losers supported the creation of Israel. That support ended when Israel start kicking some ass.
Many people will end their support for a regime who behaves in ways contrary to their beliefs.
Leftists tends to divide the world into two catagories: Oppressor and Oppressed
If your not one, you're the other.
Fascists do that too. "If you're not with us, ...you're against us." --George W. Bush
Israel vis a vis Jews were the oppressed when they were being persecuted in Europe. But when they started handing out beatdowns in the Middle East they became the oppressor. The same way the United States is seen as an oppressor of arab people. That Arabs in this country have more freedom and rights than they did in their former countries means nothing to the left.
I think it needs to be noted here that you really can't compare the two. To say it means nothing is an unfair comparison because the rights of any group in America is determined by American domestic policy. The rights of these same groups in their former countries were often dictated (no pun intended) by American foreign policy by way of whatever dictator had been placed there. We're talking apples and oranges, run by two different groups, ...although increasingly they are becoming one & the same.