Author Topic: Is America better off? (Read 4411 times)

LurkerNoMore · « **Reply #50 on:** July 13, 2015, 02:17:54 PM »

Quote from: 240 is Back on July 13, 2015, 02:15:01 PM

OJ was a great husband, aside from that one time.

I'm still convinced it was Kato.

Dos Equis · « **Reply #51 on:** July 13, 2015, 02:18:18 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 13, 2015, 01:56:58 PM

Such as "look at our national debt clock?"

A reasonable analysis includes all comparisons. not one sided ones like "under OB....."

Comparing our national debt to the financial condition of a single American is unreasonable.

What you talkin bout Willis? You asked the question whether America is better "under OB." When given specific facts showing what a lousy job he has done, you started talking about past presidents.

If you are truly being reasonable, you look at all indicators. If you are being an Obamabot, you start using moral equivalency to talk about past presidents (which has nothing to do with your original question).

bears · « **Reply #52 on:** July 13, 2015, 02:40:33 PM »

I do always find it funny that libs love to blame Bush for what he left Obama but none of them ever blame Clinton for what he left Bush. I mean Al Qaida was flying fucking planes into buildings less then 8 months after Bush was inaugurated. Did they all of a sudden get mad at us in January of 2001?

I'm starting to think there is some bias on this board.

OzmO · « **Reply #53 on:** July 13, 2015, 03:16:23 PM »

Quote from: Dos Equis on July 13, 2015, 02:18:18 PM

Comparing our national debt to the financial condition of a single American is unreasonable.

What you talkin bout Willis? You asked the question whether America is better "under OB." When given specific facts showing what a lousy job he has done, you started talking about past presidents.

If you are truly being reasonable, you look at all indicators. If you are being an Obamabot, you start using moral equivalency to talk about past presidents (which has nothing to do with your original question).

This was the question:

After 7 years of Obama.... taking into account the state of the nation now versus the state of the nation when we took over are we better or worse and why?

The question itself brings Bush into it. So any nonsense about moral equivalency ends before the question.

chadstallion · « **Reply #54 on:** July 13, 2015, 03:17:51 PM »

i am.

BayGBM · « **Reply #55 on:** July 13, 2015, 03:18:10 PM »

Quote from: bears on July 13, 2015, 02:40:33 PM

I do always find it funny that libs love to blame Bush for what he left Obama but none of them ever blame Clinton for what he left Bush. I mean Al Qaida was flying fucking planes into buildings less then 8 months after Bush was inaugurated. Did they all of a sudden get mad at us in January of 2001?

I'm starting to think there is some bias on this board.

Almost a fair point, but perhaps you should read Richard Clarke's book "Against All Enemies: Inside America's War on Terror." Clarke worked under Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush. When Bush/Cheney took over, Clarke tried for (eight) months to hold a number of meetings on terrorism because he saw it as a serious threat that the administration needed to pay attention to. They repeatedly and consistently gave him the brush off because they simply were not interested in terrorism. They did not think it was important and refused to listen to his increasingly dire overtures. Even when Condi read the memo "Bin Ladin determined to strike in the United States" they all dismissed it is not a high priority. After ignoring him for 8 months 9/11 blew up in their face and immediately the Bush team were suddenly interested in, and experts on, terrorism.

Stung by their obvious failures, the Bush/Cheney team turned to their familiar playbook of avoiding responsibility and attacking anyone who called them out: Richard Clarke, Joe Wilson, even their own Treasury Secretary, Paul O'Neill, once he refused to play along. As he left the administration, he was quoted as saying, "I'm too old to start lying now..."

Even as the poorly planned and totally unnecessary was was falling apart, they doubled down on endorsing Rumsfeld for years even as his own generals called for his termination! Paul Wolfowitz literally lost $8 billion dollars in U.S. cash that was sent over to Iraq and dismissed it as "we didn't have Western-style accounting standards over there..." Perhaps you'd be interested in another well respected book "Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq, 2003 to 2005." I could go on and on....

Were you around and paying attention during all this... or do you think it was just all liberal bias?

OzmO · « **Reply #56 on:** July 13, 2015, 03:18:25 PM »

Quote from: LurkerNoMore on July 13, 2015, 02:03:14 PM

Are you suggesting there is a difference from reasonable analysis and biased selectivity?

maybe so...

Dos Equis · « **Reply #57 on:** July 13, 2015, 03:29:26 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 13, 2015, 03:16:23 PM

This was the question:

After 7 years of Obama.... taking into account the state of the nation now versus the state of the nation when we took over are we better or worse and why?

The question itself brings Bush into it. So any nonsense about moral equivalency ends before the question.

You didn't ask to compare the Obama presidency to the Bush presidency. You asked to compare the state of the country in 2009 versus today. That has nothing to do with how well Bush (or the country) did from 2001 to 2008.

Deflecting negative indicators under the Obama administration by pointing to Bush is classic moral equivalency.

OzmO · « **Reply #58 on:** July 13, 2015, 03:48:02 PM »

Quote from: Dos Equis on July 13, 2015, 03:29:26 PM

You didn't ask to compare the Obama presidency to the Bush presidency. You asked to compare the state of the country in 2009 versus today. That has nothing to do with how well Bush (or the country) did from 2001 to 2008.

Deflecting negative indicators under the Obama administration by pointing to Bush is classic moral equivalency.

You know very well what i was asking for.

There are Obamabots and anti-Obamabots i guess lol

Dos Equis · « **Reply #59 on:** July 13, 2015, 04:07:12 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 13, 2015, 03:48:02 PM

You know very well what i was asking for.

There are Obamabots and anti-Obamabots i guess lol

Yes I do: "Is America better off?" I gave you my answer and reasons why.

The Obama hatred stuff is partisan nonsense. I don't hate him. I think he is a dishonest, incompetent, lousy leader, but I don't hate him.

OzmO · « **Reply #60 on:** July 13, 2015, 04:13:48 PM »

Quote from: Dos Equis on July 13, 2015, 04:07:12 PM

Yes I do: "Is America better off?" I gave you my answer and reasons why.

The Obama hatred stuff is partisan nonsense. I don't hate him. I think he is a dishonest, incompetent, lousy leader, but I don't hate him.

sure you did

Dos Equis · « **Reply #61 on:** July 13, 2015, 04:17:50 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 13, 2015, 04:13:48 PM

sure you did

I sure did. Although I doubt it mattered, because you were really asking a rhetorical question. Based on your responses, you already had your mind made up when you posted the thread.

OzmO · « **Reply #62 on:** July 13, 2015, 04:34:27 PM »

Quote from: Dos Equis on July 13, 2015, 04:17:50 PM

I sure did. Although I doubt it mattered, because you were really asking a rhetorical question. Based on your responses, you already had your mind made up when you posted the thread.

Not at all actually.

I was hoping or some good debate and discussion using relevant facts. Not an Anti-Obamabot response that included: weak arguments such like "the national debt clock" or "what my question meant"

And you did answer the question, with a "no", but when it came to to you supporting your points you did your normal dodgy dodge 2-step.

Dos Equis · « **Reply #63 on:** July 13, 2015, 04:45:17 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 13, 2015, 04:34:27 PM

Not at all actually.

I was hoping or some good debate and discussion using relevant facts. Not an Anti-Obamabot response that included: weak arguments such like "the national debt clock" or "what my question meant"

And you did answer the question, with a "no", but when it came to to you supporting your points you did your normal dodgy dodge 2-step.

Well that was a whole lot of typing without actually saying a whole lot. lol

But puh-leaze. You were not looking for discussion.

OzmO · « **Reply #64 on:** July 13, 2015, 04:49:31 PM »

Quote from: Dos Equis on July 13, 2015, 04:45:17 PM

Well that was a whole lot of typing without actually saying a whole lot. lol

But puh-leaze. You were not looking for discussion.

Just commenting on what you wrote. Not my fault it lacks substance.

Dos Equis · « **Reply #65 on:** July 13, 2015, 04:52:22 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 13, 2015, 04:49:31 PM

Just commenting on what you wrote. Not my fault it lacks substance.

I agree your responses lacked substance. We should stop here, since we're on the same page.

OzmO · « **Reply #66 on:** July 13, 2015, 05:34:57 PM »

Quote from: Dos Equis on July 13, 2015, 04:52:22 PM

I agree your responses lacked substance. We should stop here, since we're on the same page.

oh yeah, that's a good one, just say the same thing back at me. You dodgy dodger.

LurkerNoMore · « **Reply #67 on:** July 13, 2015, 06:34:59 PM »

The country : 2008 > 2015?

Umm.... ok.

OzmO · « **Reply #68 on:** July 13, 2015, 06:55:14 PM »

Quote from: LurkerNoMore on July 13, 2015, 06:34:59 PM

The country : 2008 > 2015?

Umm.... ok.

Yeah....

2008< 2015?

Umm....ok.

(Just trying out some of the dodgy dodgy 2 step)

LurkerNoMore · « **Reply #69 on:** July 13, 2015, 08:39:28 PM »

Quote from: OzmO on July 13, 2015, 06:55:14 PM

Yeah....

2008< 2015?

Umm....ok.

(Just trying out some of the dodgy dodgy 2 step)

You just keep ignoring facts and reality buddy. They don't mean shit cause I hate Obama and that's all there is to it.