Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Option D on August 02, 2007, 07:49:12 AM
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Dude when i bench i know that triceps are involved. But god damn...my tris feel like i have done a a full triceps workout when im done. Im scared that i might be doing something wrong. My tris are over developed and my chest isnt, even though i can press a lot.
any ideas, current chest day is as followes
Flat bb bench press
warm up 135lbs 2*15
255lbs 1*15
275lbs 1*10-12
300lbs 1*8
320lbs 1*6
Flat dumbbell press
120lbs 4*12
Incline Dumbbell press
115lbs 4*12
Pec Dec
80lbs 4*12
They aint Coleman numbers but from where i started they are a long way..I Know my tris dominate the movement though so i need some pointers. Thanks i advance
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study Markus Ruhl's technique
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study Markus Ruhl's technique
haha...thats funny
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good weights there big man, your chest looks fine to me sounds like you're worrying over nothing, try doing some more flyes at the end of the workout, best pure pec exercise there is.
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Have you tried widening your grip?
Also try adding decline bench instead of (or in addition to) pec deck sometimes, if you are bulking.
:)
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if tri's do most of the work and chest not enough do something else than benches
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Have you tried widening your grip?
Also try adding decline bench instead of (or in addition to) pec deck sometimes, if you are bulking.
:)
agreed... this is a classic case of using too narrow of a grip.
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agreed... this is a classic case of using too narrow of a grip.
not really, the closer the grip the greater the ROM for the chest, it's just a matter of not including enough db flyes.
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not really, the closer the grip the greater the ROM for the chest, it's just a matter of not including enough db flyes.
the more you move your hands inward on the bar the more stress is placed on the triceps... the wider the grip the larger portion of the lift is stressing the chest and less on the triceps. I guess I don't understand how flys have anything to do with how tired his triceps are after benching...explain please! ;D
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the more you move your hands inward on the bar the more stress is placed on the triceps... the wider the grip the larger portion of the lift is stressing the chest and less on the triceps. I guess I don't understand how flys have anything to do with how tired his triceps are after benching...explain please! ;D
i'm not talking about moving your hands in too close but moving them in maybe a hand width will allow you to train heavier and the the ROM for the chest is greater, i'm assuming that if he's complaining that his tris are taking over that his chest development isn't where he wants it and heavy flyes are the perfect movement.
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i'm not talking about moving your hands in too close but moving them in maybe a hand width will allow you to train heavier and the the ROM for the chest is greater, i'm assuming that if he's complaining that his tris are taking over that his chest development isn't where he wants it and heavy flyes are the perfect movement.
aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.... I get you now. this is actually reall good advice. Using flys takes the triceps almost completely out of it and soley trains his chest... Good stuff!
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Dude when i bench i know that triceps are involved. But god damn...my tris feel like i have done a a full triceps workout when im done. Im scared that i might be doing something wrong. My tris are over developed and my chest isnt, even though i can press a lot.
any ideas, current chest day is as followes
Flat bb bench press
warm up 135lbs 2*15
255lbs 1*15
275lbs 1*10-12
300lbs 1*8
320lbs 1*6
Flat dumbbell press
120lbs 4*12
Incline Dumbbell press
115lbs 4*12
Pec Dec
80lbs 4*12
They aint Coleman numbers but from where i started they are a long way..I Know my tris dominate the movement though so i need some pointers. Thanks i advance
You need to decide if you want to be a big benchpresser or a have a big chest.
If you want to go for the big chest, I suggest exchanging flat benchpress for benchpress on a slight incline (15-20 degree bench) instead.
Do your workout something like this instead:
Slight incline:
warm up:
135lbs 2*15
225lbs 1*5
255lbs 1*2
275lbs 1*1
Working sets:
300lbs 2*10
320lbs 1*6
In other words, don't waste so much energy on the low weights.
Then,
Alternate every other workout between:
Flat dumbbell press
3*10
and
Incline Dumbbell press
3*10
Then I suggest you drop the pec dec, and do three controlled sets of incline flies, like SF suggested.
Pec Dec
80lbs 4*12
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Damn thats some good advices...
I should have given more Info in the beginning.
1. I would call my grip closer than the norm, now that i think about it. I space my hands 1 thumb length away from the smooth part...
2. I dont do DB flyes nearly as much as i should...actually i never to them at all.
I was scared to do a wider grip because i never really had any real injuries except for when i squatted real heavy and broke a vert....but nothing with any extremities out of the normal soreness..so im scared about putting too much strain on my shoulders and messing something up..But fuck it. i never done it before it should work.
So ill do the following (feel free to chime in)
1. use a slightly wider grip
2. go heavier sooner in my workout
3. switch out the pec dec with some heavy dumbbell flyes
I think that should do me. Im gonna start out at some lighter shit just in order to get used to the change...thanks everyone.
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Damn thats some good advices...
I should have given more Info in the beginning.
1. I would call my grip closer than the norm, now that i think about it. I space my hands 1 thumb length away from the smooth part...
2. I dont do DB flyes nearly as much as i should...actually i never to them at all.
I was scared to do a wider grip because i never really had any real injuries except for when i squatted real heavy and broke a vert....but nothing with any extremities out of the normal soreness..so im scared about putting too much strain on my shoulders and messing something up..But fuck it. i never done it before it should work.
So ill do the following (feel free to chime in)
1. use a slightly wider grip
2. go heavier sooner in my workout
3. switch out the pec dec with some heavy dumbbell flyes
I think that should do me. Im gonna start out at some lighter shit just in order to get used to the change...thanks everyone.
Sounds like a plan.
But one thing with the flies: Don't get number crazy. Just focus on working the chest, getting a good action going instead of hazarding it to feed your ego. It could result in a pec tear.
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Sounds like a plan.
But one thing with the flies: Don't get number crazy. Just focus on working the chest, getting a good action going instead of hazarding it to feed your ego. It could result in a pec tear.
exactly, also don't get so caught up in keeping the arms totally robotically straightt either, bend the elbows and it will allow a little deeper stretch and heavier weights.
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exactly, also don't get so caught up in keeping the arms totally robotically straightt either, bend the elbows and it will allow a little deeper stretch and heavier weights.
ok...you think i should do them like Arnold in pumping iron...he didnt close the dumbbells at the top of the movement.
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ok...you think i should do them like Arnold in pumping iron...he didnt close the dumbbells at the top of the movement.
exactly, watch his chest flex and contract in that scene, fuccking awesome, it takes awhile to work up to that ROM with the 80's or 85's like he was using but like i said flyes are the purest pec movement when you consider the function of the pec is to draw the arm in and across the torso.
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exactly, watch his chest flex and contract in that scene, fuccking awesome, it takes awhile to work up to that ROM with the 80's or 85's like he was using but like i said flyes are the purest pec movement when you consider the function of the pec is to draw the arm in and across the torso.
hahaha....squad the trainer of champions...i never thought of it like that like that...i used them as a shaping exercise and not a building one...you tha muthafuckin man...thanks
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make sure your arms are perpindicular to your torso, the more your elbows point towards your feet the more tri's you use, also narrower grip.
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study Markus Ruhl's technique
Dude's got a point. If you bench with your elbows coming down and forward at an angle instead of with your arms moving straight up and down, it'll hit the triceps more. I'm actually trying to RELEARN how to bench to use MORE tri's. I also use a super wide grip that spans the bar. If you used a grip that's just outside shoulder width or right at it, I can see where you're tri's would be huge. I can't bench like that. Nasty shoulder injury requires me to have a wide grip to keep it from becoming irritating. IF you see guys with huge chests, watch them bench and compare their techniques to yours. I'm starting to believe that you can tailor make your bench pressing technique to take out or add more of a particular muscles involvement more than previously like adding more tri's or less tri's, etc.
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shoulders back elbows back and do them slow very slow.
ur weight will drop dramatically, ur chest involvement will increase double. its not about the weight with chest especially for those having trouble isolating it...u gotta get the chest workin
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Good Numbers there though big_mal, I know it's not all about numbers as the guys here have stated but still well done mate 8).
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Dude's got a point. If you bench with your elbows coming down and forward at an angle instead of with your arms moving straight up and down, it'll hit the triceps more. I'm actually trying to RELEARN how to bench to use MORE tri's. I also use a super wide grip that spans the bar. If you used a grip that's just outside shoulder width or right at it, I can see where you're tri's would be huge. I can't bench like that. Nasty shoulder injury requires me to have a wide grip to keep it from becoming irritating. IF you see guys with huge chests, watch them bench and compare their techniques to yours. I'm starting to believe that you can tailor make your bench pressing technique to take out or add more of a particular muscles involvement more than previously like adding more tri's or less tri's, etc.
I understand what you are saying. I think dude said use markus' technique because he has no triceps to speak of...But i will try a wider grip firstly and i know ill have to drop my weight, i actually dont really care about the lbs i lift because i train alone anyway... ;D
But im really gonna try out what squad told me because it makes perfect sense. To totally hit the pec in te movement it was intended for. The chest flyes with Db's are perfect
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I understand what you are saying. I think dude said use markus' technique because he has no triceps to speak of...But i will try a wider grip firstly and i know ill have to drop my weight, i actually dont really care about the lbs i lift because i train alone anyway... ;D
But im really gonna try out what squad told me because it makes perfect sense. To totally hit the pec in te movement it was intended for. The chest flyes with Db's are perfect
The markus technique is the exactly how I bench press. If you go super wide, you'll hit the tri's less which might be something you're looking for.
Absolutely. The only two things that suck about dumbbells is number one, doing them safely since you workout alone, and getting them in enough weight to be worth something. Just like dumbbell shrugs, they can only do so much but after awhile you just need to move to a barbell. Which is why you mix them up. The contraction and benefits you get from dumbbells is awesome. I've never tried to kick back more than the 100's because without help it's awkward. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
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man, some good advices on this thread. I agree with sarcasm and im doing exactly what hedge propose, doing a slight incline (but im doing flyes with this, using sarcasmīs idea)
So now im doing
flat bench press (using some negatives)
incline bench press (or dumbell)
slight incline flyes, again using sarcasm idea. Not using completely straight arms, bending it but contracting the pecs. Its incredible how much more weight you can handle doing this. And i fell my pecs the same way
great thread!
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The markus technique is the exactly how I bench press. If you go super wide, you'll hit the tri's less which might be something you're looking for.
Absolutely. The only two things that suck about dumbbells is number one, doing them safely since you workout alone, and getting them in enough weight to be worth something. Just like dumbbell shrugs, they can only do so much but after awhile you just need to move to a barbell. Which is why you mix them up. The contraction and benefits you get from dumbbells is awesome. I've never tried to kick back more than the 100's because without help it's awkward. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.
i wasn't talking about db presses but db flyes and i don't care how strong a person might be, NO ONE is going to outgrow the dumbbells on flyes, you have to work up slow on db flyes and i've never seen ANYONE use anymore than 85's or 90's on db flyes with decent form.
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Flys are further proof of the value of isolation movements for size.
What Arnold's doing and anyone should try on both flys and presses is emphasizing the bottom 2/3 partial ROM, which is the sweet spot for chest. That's for several reasons:
-Any free weight exercise that uses an arc like flys or curls, only works the muscle through part of the motion; tension's lost outside of that range - generally the top and bottom portions of ROM. You can avoid those areas and work the muscle better, IMO; there is a sweet spot for any exercise, where you can use more weight and the muscles have more leverage. For chest it is close to the beginning/middle of the motion, while the end portion of ROM is more for tris. Therefore work the lower/mid portion of ROM for flys and presses.
-Cheats and partials are ways to emphasize those areas where the muscles have a mechanical advantage and can move more weight, and are under tension. Generally those areas of ROM work the muscle more effectively. That's why cheat curls can be better than strict curls, why it's not necessary to do the bottom or top of preacher curls, and why box squats can be better than full squats for size.
Also it's true that dumbbells can be more effective in isolating the chest AND are less harsh on the joints. In addition, the use of dumbbells allows the hands to be at different angles. Try dumbbell flys using a neutral/palms facing one another grip, or any angle between neutral and the usual grip.
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i wasn't talking about db presses but db flyes and i don't care how strong a person might be, NO ONE is going to outgrow the dumbbells on flyes, you have to work up slow on db flyes and i've never seen ANYONE use anymore than 85's or 90's on db flyes with decent form.
Okay I agree with you there. I've never seen anyone go over 100's before and I did them with a spot and some help. I love them but, you've gotta do them super strict and very controlled, especially with heavier weights, or you'll fuck your shit UP!
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Okay I agree with you there. I've never seen anyone go over 100's before and I did them with a spot and some help. I love them but, you've gotta do them super strict and very controlled, especially with heavier weights, or you'll fuck your shit UP!
ok im doing somethig wrong..i was thinking about using the 60's MAX...i might be thinkn something different from yall...Flyes with the 100's is not what i had in mind
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ok im doing somethig wrong..i was thinking about using the 60's MAX...i might be thinkn something different from yall...Flyes with the 100's is not what i had in mind
What do you mean? You mean you'll be happy with just doing the 60's and never want to push farther than that? Or that's the most you think you can handle? It might be the case NOW...but too many people get "content" with what they do and never push themselves harder and farther than they thought possible. If you're just thinking you can only HANDLE the 60's, that might be the case NOW but once you get used to the movement and good at handling that weight and CONFIDENT in what you can do, you should be eating them up. When I was benching where you're at now, the 70's and 80's were an every chest day thing. I just now started doing them and feel no pain anymore. Just learn to to them with good form first before jumping up there. Maybe if you come to town like you said, we can hit chest that particular day and go through the motions.
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I've gotten stuck on weight plateaus for the longest time on both flys and chins, then recently both went up quite a bit. ;)
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ok im doing somethig wrong..i was thinking about using the 60's MAX...i might be thinkn something different from yall...Flyes with the 100's is not what i had in mind
that's not what i was saying either Mal, believe me 60's are very heavy for flyes if you're doing them strictly.
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What do you mean? You mean you'll be happy with just doing the 60's and never want to push farther than that? Or that's the most you think you can handle? It might be the case NOW...but too many people get "content" with what they do and never push themselves harder and farther than they thought possible. If you're just thinking you can only HANDLE the 60's, that might be the case NOW but once you get used to the movement and good at handling that weight and CONFIDENT in what you can do, you should be eating them up. When I was benching where you're at now, the 70's and 80's were an every chest day thing. I just now started doing them and feel no pain anymore. Just learn to to them with good form first before jumping up there. Maybe if you come to town like you said, we can hit chest that particular day and go through the motions.
yeah ill be flying to dallas on saturday and out on tuesday...
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How deep do you guys go on your flys anyway? I don't go beyond a hair past parallel when I start to feel the stretch and come back up. Anything deeper than that KILLS my shoulders and takes my focus off feeling my chest to not ripping my sockets out. Dave is right. 60lbs isn't a cake walk by any means. If you're looking for better chest work in your benching, you might want to fatigue it first with dumbbell flyes before benching. I know I've heard that suggestion presented somewhere on getbig before. Also, INCLINE dumbbell flys can be a gas. I've done them and supersetted with incline dumbbell presses at the end of a few workouts and it was BRUTAL!
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I cruised through these responses and was surprised to not see this suggestion:
Take a little wider grip than shoulder width, and instead of benching with your arms in a "power benching" style, turn your hands slightly on the bar and bring your elbows out to near parallel with the bar, or directly in line...then lower the bar higher on your chest. You'll definitely have to reduce poundage, but you'll feel it really working the chest.
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yeah ill be flying to dallas on saturday and out on tuesday...
This week? I'm going out of town monday and work all weekend save maybe sunday if you're down we can try to work something out. Sunday is the only day I can think of that we could possibly get together. If you're down, I'll pm you my cell number and you can give me a call if you get a few hours free time.
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I cruised through these responses and was surprised to not see this suggestion:
Take a little wider grip than shoulder width, and instead of benching with your arms in a "power benching" style, turn your hands slightly on the bar and bring your elbows out to near parallel with the bar, or directly in line...then lower the bar higher on your chest. You'll definitely have to reduce poundage, but you'll feel it really working the chest.
That's exactly how people with heavy benches and no triceps (like me) press. The power pressing style like you mentioned sounds like what he's doing.
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I've gotten stuck on weight plateaus for the longest time on both flys and chins, then recently both went up quite a bit. ;)
HAHA way to get your head outta your ass pump! ;D
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HAHA way to get your head outta your ass pump! ;D
Classy LOL
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Classy LOL
OH you're too kind! ;D
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How deep do you guys go on your flys anyway? I don't go beyond a hair past parallel when I start to feel the stretch and come back up. Anything deeper than that KILLS my shoulders and takes my focus off feeling my chest to not ripping my sockets out. Dave is right. 60lbs isn't a cake walk by any means. If you're looking for better chest work in your benching, you might want to fatigue it first with dumbbell flyes before benching. I know I've heard that suggestion presented somewhere on getbig before. Also, INCLINE dumbbell flys can be a gas. I've done them and supersetted with incline dumbbell presses at the end of a few workouts and it was BRUTAL!
see thats exactly why i kind of shyed away from them..i i was trying to protec shouders at all cost...
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see thats exactly why i kind of shyed away from them..i i was trying to protec shouders at all cost...
You can do them, just do them properly and deep enough to where you feel your chest working. If you go TOO deep you'll feel it transfer from your pecs to almost all the weight on your shoulders or so it seems. Go lighter and learn what to look for. Once you've found it, don't be afraid of going heavier. Hell flyes are alot safer than the pec dec imho. The dec irritates the fuck outta me.
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You can do them, just do them properly and deep enough to where you feel your chest working. If you go TOO deep you'll feel it transfer from your pecs to almost all the weight on your shoulders or so it seems. Go lighter and learn what to look for. Once you've found it, don't be afraid of going heavier. Hell flyes are alot safer than the pec dec imho. The dec irritates the fuck outta me.
oh ok...ill start with the 20s just to get the feeling down....
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oh ok...ill start with the 20s just to get the feeling down....
I would suggest going a little higher than that, 20's..i didn't even know they made them that light. ;D 40lbs or so should be more than enough that it'll give you a NOTICALBE stretch. You're a big boy, you can handle it.
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keep your back flat,elbows in line with shoulders and lighten the weight a bit until you get the pec squeeze down then add weight.that should do it.