Author Topic: Miss GW Yet?  (Read 14973 times)

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #225 on: March 20, 2014, 11:20:11 AM »
here's some more facts for you  


After the invasion of Iraq in 2003, the Bush administration formed the Iraq Survey Group and tasked it with the job of locating WMD stockpiles in Iraq. The ISG was staffed with hundreds of intelligence analysts and military personnel from the United States, the United Kingdom and Australia. The group scoured Iraq, searching for deposits of weapons. But that was actually only part of the ISG’s focus.

According to the ISG final report, the search for WMDs actually began during the invasion phase of Operation Iraqi Freedom. A military task force was deployed to investigate suspected WMD sites on the theory that the Iraqi military might otherwise employ those weapons against coalition troops. After the invasion, the ISG was established to conduct "a more systematic collection of evidence to build an understanding of Iraqi WMD programs." In other words, the ISG did not simply look for WMDs. The group also looked at Iraq’s WMD capabilities and examined evidence relating to past WMD stockpiles.

During its investigation, the ISG reported that "[a] total of 53 munitions have been recovered, all of which appear to have been part of pre-1991 Gulf war stocks based on their physical condition and residual components." These isolated discoveries received significant media attention, and it’s likely that these overhyped reports contributed to your friends’ beliefs that Iraq really did possess WMDs. But the finds were rare, and the ISG concluded that they were not part of a significant stockpile of weapons. Indeed, after nearly two years of investigation, the ISG concluded that:
◾"Saddam Husayn ended the nuclear program in 1991 following the Gulf war. ISG found no evidence to suggest concerted efforts to restart the program."◾"While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter."
◾"In practical terms, with the destruction of the Al Hakam facility, Iraq abandoned its ambition to obtain advanced BW [biological warfare] weapons quickly. ISG found no direct evidence that Iraq, after 1996, had plans for a new BW program or was conducting BW-specific work for military purposes."

Experts from the three nations failed to document any existent biological or nuclear weapons and discovered only a few random chemical weapons. The ISG concluded that contrary to what most of the world had believed, Iraq had abandoned attempts to produce WMDs. In his congressional testimony, the head of the ISG, Charles Duelfer, admitted, "We were almost all wrong" on Iraq.

The ISG report was sufficient to convince the Bush administration that there were no WMDs to be found; they called off the search in 2005. If that doesn’t convince your friends, we’re not sure what else might do the trick. Anyone who believes something without any positive evidence and in the face of evidence to the contrary is no longer acting on the basis of reason.

-Joe Miller



"Heavy as they are, the costs of action must be weighed against the price of inaction.  If Saddam defies the world and we fail to respond, we will face a far greater threat in the future.  Saddam will strike again at his neighbors; he will make war on his own people.  And mark my words, he will develop weapons of mass destruction.  He will deploy them, and he will use them."

President Clinton
    National Address from the Oval Office
    December 16, 1998

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #226 on: March 20, 2014, 11:21:38 AM »
when did I say it was outdated,i said the intell for the 90's was wrong,i can't see why you have a hard time understanding that :D

and when democrats get intel wrong, well they had bad intel

and when republicans get intel wrong, they fabricated it.

we get it dude.  republicans are bad, democrats are good.

now go away

blacken700

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11873
  • Getbig!
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #227 on: March 20, 2014, 11:25:57 AM »

"Heavy as they are, the costs of action must be weighed against the price of inaction.  If Saddam defies the world and we fail to respond, we will face a far greater threat in the future.  Saddam will strike again at his neighbors; he will make war on his own people.  And mark my words, he will develop weapons of mass destruction.  He will deploy them, and he will use them."

President Clinton
    National Address from the Oval Office
    December 16, 1998


now we know when Clinton said that it was in 98,and at the time he went by the intel he had.really not that hard to understand ;D

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #228 on: March 20, 2014, 11:26:38 AM »
No - you and your leftist cabal of cultists and nit wits live in a delusion on Iraq. 

armchair quarterbacking.  that's all they can do.

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #229 on: March 20, 2014, 11:29:22 AM »
now we know when Clinton said that it was in 98,and at the time he went by the intel he had.really not that hard to understand ;D

except that you explicitly stated that there was no nuclear program after 1991.  Clinton obviously disagrees with you.  and just because they didn't find any doesn't mean they weren't there.

as you can see at the time when you were absolutely sure that there was no nuclear program in Iraq, Bill Clinton though there was.  so none of us know what was there and what wasn't.  Sadaam wouldn't let UN inspectors inside to look.  you don't think he was hiding something?

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #230 on: March 20, 2014, 11:31:24 AM »
now we know when Clinton said that it was in 98,and at the time he went by the intel he had.really not that hard to understand ;D

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity.  This he has refused to do.  He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies.  Those are simply the facts."

    Congressman Henry Waxman (Democrat, California)
    Addressing the US Congress
    October 10, 2002

blacken700

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11873
  • Getbig!
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #231 on: March 20, 2014, 11:38:33 AM »
except that you explicitly stated that there was no nuclear program after 1991.  Clinton obviously disagrees with you.  and just because they didn't find any doesn't mean they weren't there.

as you can see at the time when you were absolutely sure that there was no nuclear program in Iraq, Bill Clinton though there was.  so none of us know what was there and what wasn't.  Sadaam wouldn't let UN inspectors inside to look.  you don't think he was hiding something?

lol holy shit,i said that, I'm going by a report that was in 2003 clinton didn't have access to that report in 1998 unless he had a time machine

blacken700

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11873
  • Getbig!
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #232 on: March 20, 2014, 11:44:26 AM »
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity.  This he has refused to do.  He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies.  Those are simply the facts."

    Congressman Henry Waxman (Democrat, California)
    Addressing the US Congress
    October 10, 2002


and by this report from2003 we know he was wrong,look you want to justify the war,to me it was a waste of 4000 American lives and 2 trillion dollars

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39579
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #233 on: March 20, 2014, 11:47:03 AM »
and by this report from2003 we know he was wrong,look you want to justify the war,to me it was a waste of 4000 American lives and 2 trillion dollars

Being wrong and a CT are not the same thing jackass. 

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #234 on: March 20, 2014, 12:09:42 PM »
and by this report from2003 we know he was wrong,look you want to justify the war,to me it was a waste of 4000 American lives and 2 trillion dollars

who said I wanted to justify the war?  you did.  I don't think it was a good idea to go to war in Iraq.  but what the fuck do I know?  all i'm saying is that you're ridiculous for saying that he fabricated evidence to go to war.  there is ZERO proof other than accusations from democrats.  i do think its funny that you told me that evidence from Republicans won't be acceptable to you and all you do is post shit that Democrats said.  the funny thing is most of my evidence that made you look like an idiot was from democrats too.  LOL!  you're just saying that because you're a bought and sold asset.  no other reason.  I don't play armchair quarterback to a president when it comes to national security.  

have you seen me make one comment on Obama and Russia?  No.  wanna know why?  because he knows much more than I do, much more than you do, about exactly what's going on over there and how it may affect the US.  he's privy to much more information than we are.

and i'm not going to troll around on the internet like you pretending I know better than him and his advisors about what's in our best interest to keep us safe.  i'll leave that kind of shit to asshats like yourself who have no concept of themselves.

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #235 on: March 20, 2014, 12:15:17 PM »
now we know when Clinton said that it was in 98,and at the time he went by the intel he had.really not that hard to understand ;D

and if I post something from 2003?  what will you say?  "well that's faulty intelligence from the Bush administration."

your religious faith in liberalism is palpable.

please don't knock the religious on here like you do.  because if anyone has blind faith in a mystery man in the sky its you. 

blacken700

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11873
  • Getbig!
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #236 on: March 20, 2014, 12:24:31 PM »
again most of the dems you posted was shit they said in the 90's,but I believe we went o war in 2001.you like to say the panel was all dems that said bush trumped evidence and than give me three repubs that say it isn't so.lol   you really are dumber then dumb.but I kind of knew that then all you did was talk in circles.like I said your just someone that can't admit he's wrong,sad little man :D

blacken700

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11873
  • Getbig!
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #237 on: March 20, 2014, 12:28:36 PM »
oh just another liar ;D


Ex-CIA Official Faults Use of Data on Iraq

 By Walter Pincus
 Washington Post Staff Writer
 Friday, February 10, 2006
 


The former CIA official who coordinated U.S. intelligence on the Middle East until last year has accused the Bush administration of "cherry-picking" intelligence on Iraq to justify a decision it had already reached to go to war, and of ignoring warnings that the country could easily fall into violence and chaos after an invasion to overthrow Saddam Hussein.


Paul R. Pillar, who was the national intelligence officer for the Near East and South Asia from 2000 to 2005, acknowledges the U.S. intelligence agencies' mistakes in concluding that Hussein's government possessed weapons of mass destruction. But he said those misjudgments did not drive the administration's decision to invade.

"Official intelligence on Iraqi weapons programs was flawed, but even with its flaws, it was not what led to the war," Pillar wrote in the upcoming issue of the journal Foreign Affairs. Instead, he asserted, the administration "went to war without requesting -- and evidently without being influenced by -- any strategic-level intelligence assessments on any aspect of Iraq."

"It has become clear that official intelligence was not relied on in making even the most significant national security decisions, that intelligence was misused publicly to justify decisions already made, that damaging ill will developed between [Bush] policymakers and intelligence officers, and that the intelligence community's own work was politicized," Pillar wrote.

Pillar's critique is one of the most severe indictments of White House actions by a former Bush official since Richard C. Clarke, a former National Security Council staff member, went public with his criticism of the administration's handling of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and its failure to deal with the terrorist threat beforehand.


ad_icon




It is also the first time that such a senior intelligence officer has so directly and publicly condemned the administration's handling of intelligence.

Pillar, retired after 28 years at the CIA, was an influential behind-the-scenes player and was considered the agency's leading counterterrorism analyst. By the end of his career, he was responsible for coordinating assessments on Iraq from all 15 agencies in the intelligence community. He is now a professor in security studies at Georgetown University.

White House officials did not respond to a request to comment for this article. They have vehemently denied accusations that the administration manipulated intelligence to generate public support for the war.

"Our statements about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein were based on the aggregation of intelligence from a number of sources and represented the collective view of the intelligence community," national security adviser Stephen J. Hadley said in a White House briefing in November. "Those judgments were shared by Republicans and Democrats alike."

Republicans and Democrats in Congress continue to argue over whether, or how, to investigate accusations the administration manipulated prewar intelligence.

Yesterday, the Senate Republican Policy Committee issued a statement to counter what it described as "the continuing Iraq pre-war intelligence myths," including charges that Bush " 'misused' intelligence to justify the war." Writing that it was perfectly reasonable for the president to rely on the intelligence he was given, the paper concluded, "it is actually the critics who are misleading the American people."

In his article, Pillar said he believes that the "politicization" of intelligence on Iraq occurred "subtly" and in many forms, but almost never resulted from a policymaker directly asking an analyst to reshape his or her results. "Such attempts are rare," he writes, "and when they do occur . . . are almost always unsuccessful."

Instead, he describes a process in which the White House helped frame intelligence results by repeatedly posing questions aimed at bolstering its arguments about Iraq.


The Bush administration, Pillar wrote, "repeatedly called on the intelligence community to uncover more material that would contribute to the case for war," including information on the "supposed connection" between Hussein and al Qaeda, which analysts had discounted. "Feeding the administration's voracious appetite for material on the Saddam-al Qaeda link consumed an enormous amount of time and attention."

The result of the requests, and public statements by the president, Vice President Cheney and others, led analysts and managers to conclude the United States was heading for war well before the March 2003 invasion, Pillar asserted.

They thus knew, he wrote, that senior policymakers "would frown on or ignore analysis that called into question a decision to go to war and welcome analysis that supported such a decision. . . . [They] felt a strong wind consistently blowing in one direction. The desire to bend with such a wind is natural and strong, even if unconscious."

Pillar wrote that the prewar intelligence asserted Hussein's "weapons capacities," but he said the "broad view" within the United States and overseas "was that Saddam was being kept 'in his box' " by U.N. sanctions, and that the best way to deal with him was through "an aggressive inspections program to supplement sanctions already in place."

"If the entire body of official intelligence analysis on Iraq had a policy implication," Pillar wrote, "it was to avoid war -- or, if war was going to be launched, to prepare for a messy aftermath."


ad_icon




Pillar describes for the first time that the intelligence community did assessments before the invasion that, he wrote, indicated a postwar Iraq "would not provide fertile ground for democracy" and would need "a Marshall Plan-type effort" to restore its economy despite its oil revenue. It also foresaw Sunnis and Shiites fighting for power.

Pillar wrote that the intelligence community "anticipated that a foreign occupying force would itself be the target of resentment and attacks -- including guerrilla warfare -- unless it established security and put Iraq on the road to prosperity in the first few weeks or months after the fall of Saddam."

In an interview, Pillar said the prewar assessments "were not crystal-balling, but in them we were laying out the challenges that would face us depending on decisions that were made."

Pillar wrote that the first request he received from a Bush policymaker for an assessment of post-invasion Iraq was "not until a year into the war."

That assessment, completed in August 2004, warned that the insurgency in Iraq could evolve into a guerrilla war or civil war. It was leaked to the media in September in the midst of the presidential campaign, and Bush, who had told voters that the mission in Iraq was going well, described the assessment to reporters as "just guessing."

Shortly thereafter, Pillar was identified in a column by Robert D. Novak as having prepared the assessment and having given a speech critical of Bush's Iraq policy at a private dinner in California. The column fed the White House's view that the CIA was in effect working against the Bush administration, and that Pillar was part of that. A columnist in the Washington Times in October 2004 called him "a longstanding intellectual opponent of the policy options chosen by President Bush to fight terrorism."

Leaked information "encouraged some administration supporters to charge intelligence officers (including me) with trying to sabotage the president's policies," Pillar wrote. One effect of that, he said, was to limit challenges to consensus views on matters such as the Iraqi weapons program.

When asked why he did not quit given his concerns, Pillar said in the interview that he was doing "other worthwhile work in the nation's interest" and never thought of resigning over the issue.

Pillar suggests that the CIA and other intelligence agencies, now under Director of National Intelligence John D. Negroponte, remain within the executive branch but "be given greater independence."

The model he cites is the Federal Reserve, overseen by governors who serve fixed terms. That, he said, would reduce "both the politicization of the intelligence community's own work and the public misuse of intelligence by policymakers."

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #238 on: March 20, 2014, 12:32:56 PM »
again most of the dems you posted was shit they said in the 90's,but I believe we went o war in 2001.you like to say the panel was all dems that said bush trumped evidence and than give me three repubs that say it isn't so.lol   you really are dumber then dumb.but I kind of knew that then all you did was talk in circles.like I said your just someone that can't admit he's wrong,sad little man :D

did you not say that Sadaam's nuclear program was ended in 1991?

did I not show you that Clinton, Pelosi, reid, and other democrats did not believe this?

were they lying?

sad little man?

says the guy who worships a political party.  LOL!!!!!!!!!

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #239 on: March 20, 2014, 12:34:57 PM »
the funniest part of this whole thing is that since you have nothing to defend Obama on you simply bring back some Michael Moore type accusations that no one even bothers with anymore.  that's how desperate you are.  pathetic.  truly pathetic.


blacken700

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11873
  • Getbig!
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #240 on: March 20, 2014, 12:41:48 PM »
your so caught up in the repud party you can't see beyond your nose,but hey you are part of the party of stupid so I guess we have to cut you a break lol

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #241 on: March 20, 2014, 12:45:24 PM »
your so caught up in the repud party you can't see beyond your nose,but hey you are part of the party of stupid so I guess we have to cut you a break lol

"tv teaches me that democrats are good and republicans are bad"

and im a republican now?  LOL!!!

blacken700

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11873
  • Getbig!
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #242 on: March 20, 2014, 12:52:31 PM »
I don't think so, your whats known as fox news informed,i'm sure you'll deny it but your post speak for themselves  ;)

Soul Crusher

  • Competitors
  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 39579
  • Doesnt lie about lifting.
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #243 on: March 20, 2014, 01:11:38 PM »
I don't think so, your whats known as fox news informed,i'm sure you'll deny it but your post speak for themselves  ;)

Unbelievable how cultish you are. 

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #244 on: March 20, 2014, 02:04:04 PM »
I don't think so, your whats known as fox news informed,i'm sure you'll deny it but your post speak for themselves  ;)

id be willing to bet that just about anyone who calls you out on your obvious bullshit is called "fox news informed" by you.

FYI.  everyone who read this thread knows how full of shit you are.  that's why all the libs abandoned you 4 pages ago.  LOL!!!!!!!



blacken700

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11873
  • Getbig!
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #245 on: March 20, 2014, 02:12:40 PM »
id be willing to bet that just about anyone who calls you out on your obvious bullshit is called "fox news informed" by you.

FYI.  everyone who read this thread knows how full of shit you are.  that's why all the libs abandoned you 4 pages ago.  LOL!!!!!!!




they know it's wasted time to argue with you the guy who can't admit he's wrong.what the hell I had nothing better to do.i guess the fox news thing is a yes  ;D

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #246 on: March 20, 2014, 03:45:06 PM »
they know it's wasted time to argue with you the guy who can't admit he's wrong.what the hell I had nothing better to do.i guess the fox news thing is a yes  ;D

you just keep telling yourself that.   ;D

blacken700

  • Getbig V
  • *****
  • Posts: 11873
  • Getbig!
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #247 on: March 20, 2014, 03:51:15 PM »
I do,than I think probably another  small guy with short guy syndrome;D

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #248 on: March 20, 2014, 04:40:57 PM »
I do,than I think probably another  small guy with short guy syndrome;D

hey whatever it takes.

bears

  • Getbig IV
  • ****
  • Posts: 2195
Re: Miss GW Yet?
« Reply #249 on: March 20, 2014, 04:49:35 PM »
Unbelievable how cultish you are. 

I understand the cultish part.  he's a dime a dozen.  lemmings are everywhere.  what I don't get is his intense argumentation while lacking all semblance of logic.  he posts something.  you refute it.  then he's retorts with something on a completely different topic.  he doesn't even remember what his arguments are or what he posts.  and even if you highlight the exact argument that you're making, showing him his assertion and your rebuttal with bolded words, he doesn't understand.  I'm 100% sure he has severe ADHD.  or just of very low IQ.