Author Topic: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start  (Read 4538 times)

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Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« on: November 28, 2007, 07:43:01 AM »
Flip flop. 

Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
Wednesday, November 28, 2007

MUSCATINE, Iowa —  Showing inconsistency on an issue that has dogged his wife, former President Bill Clinton told Iowa Democrats on Tuesday that he "opposed (war in) Iraq from the beginning."

Clinton was in Iowa on the campaign trail for his wife, New York Sen. Hillary Clinton.

On Iraq, he told the crowd that wealthy people like he and his wife should pay more taxes in times of war. "Even though I approved of Afghanistan and opposed Iraq from the beginning, I still resent that I was not asked or given the opportunity to support those soldiers," Clinton said, according to The Washington Post.

Click here to read The Washington Post article.

But the former president's opposition to the war has not been clear from the start. Like his wife, Clinton has been critical of the Iraq war in recent months, but at one time he gave President Bush the benefit of the doubt.

"I supported the president when he asked for authority to stand up against weapons of mass destruction in Iraq," he said in May 2003, the same year he was quoted praising Bush's handling of the war.

In a June 2004 article in Time magazine, Clinton also suggested that he would have acted the same way Bush did.

"So, you're sitting there as president, you're reeling in the aftermath of (Sept. 11), so, yeah, you want to go get (Usama) bin Laden and do Afghanistan and all that. But you also have to say, 'Well, my first responsibility now is to try everything possible to make sure that this terrorist network and other terrorist networks cannot reach chemical and biological weapons or small amounts of fissile material. I've got to do that.' That's why I supported the Iraq thing," he is quoted telling the magazine.

Sen. Clinton voted to authorize the war in Iraq, and has not apologized for her decision despite attacks from war opponents Sen. Barack Obama and John Edwards.

Asked about the discrepancy, Clinton aides said Tuesday's comment was a short-handed explanation of his long-held views that weapons inspectors should have been given more time in Iraq. "As he said before the war and many times since, President Clinton disagreed with taking the country to war without allowing the weapons inspectors to finish their jobs," said spokesman Jay Carson.

The Clinton camp also said that in the Time article, Clinton stated that he "would not have done it until after (then-chief U.N. weapons inspector) Hans Blix finished the job."

The former president's visit to Iowa marked the start of a battle of campaign surrogates — Bill Clinton vs. Oprah Winfrey. Clinton is stumping for his wife while the media mogul is backing Sen. Hillary Clinton's chief rival, Barack Obama, in appearances scheduled for next week.

"Oprah vs. Bill! Now, there's a race," said Gail VanGundy, 59, an undecided voter who said the former president is a bigger draw for her than Winfrey.

"Both have star power," said Alfred Monroe, 76, as he awaited the former president's appearance in this eastern Iowa town.

Clinton himself said Winfrey ought to be for Obama because both hail from Chicago. He didn't mention that his wife is also from suburban Chicago. "I like Oprah Winfrey," he said. "We're friends."

Whether surrogates like Clinton and Winfrey sway voters is debatable, but operatives in both campaigns welcome their ability to draw crowds and attention in the closing days of a hotly contested Democratic presidential primary race.

Speaking for more than an hour, Clinton discussed his wife's agenda and experience in exhaustive terms, sprinkling the remarks with asides about his presidency and his activities on the world stage since he left office in January 2001.

"I think she has proven in all these debates, and especially the last one, that she is the strongest, most reliable person that we could elect," he told more than 400 potential voters at a YMCA gym.

In three eastern Iowa stops, Clinton made a personal appeal for voters to back his wife. He said his opinion should matter because "I know what it takes to be president" and "because of the life I've lived since I left office."

Hillary Clinton will bring America "back to the future," Bill Clinton said, promoting his own legacy in public life almost as much as his wife's presidential campaign.

"Here's why I think that she is the person to bring us the right kind of change that we need. First of all, what kind of change do we need? We need to get American back to the future. We need to get America back to the solutions business."

He said his wife has the experience to be president, noting among other things her work as Arkansas' first lady on behalf of school standards, her travels as the nation's first lady to 82 countries and her victory as a Senate candidate in several GOP counties in New York.

Left off his list of Sen. Clinton's experiences: her stewardship of the Clinton administration health care plan that failed in the 1990s.

"You need somebody who is strong, competent, has a good vision and never forgets what it's like to be you," Clinton said.

He pulled a pledge card out of his pocket, held it up to the crowd and asked people to caucus on his wife's behalf Jan. 3."The reason I want you to sign one of these cards is because I know her," he said. "I hope you make her the next president because she would be a great president and you would never, ever regret it."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313309,00.html

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2007, 07:53:51 AM »
are we now ready to admit that all politicians flip flop, BB? 


Hugo Chavez

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2007, 08:33:44 AM »
This brings me back to that time.  I know we were all very puzzled at the stance.  Overnight Bill was all of a sudden talking sweet about Bush, golfing with pappy Bush.    It was odd and indeed at the time we all(family&friends) had the unanimous opinion that they had something on him.  We just couldn't believe Bill would suck up like that in such a buddy buddy manner with that family.

This was during the same time he supported W's war.  It was almost a year before we saw another serious criticism come from Clinton and by the time it did I had just become accustomed enough to the buddy buddy routine with the Bush family that this seemed oddly out of place.

Yes so for a short time, he had nothing but accolades for the Bush Family and W's administration.  Pappy Bush has nothing but absolute hate for Clinton.  To see them appear so many times in these photo ops seemed very geared to get the left in line behind the war.

It is also noteworthy that the "blame Clinton for everything" campaign that continued heavy into the Bush Administration all but vanished on the right during this time period and that's a fact, I remember quite well it slowed to a trickle but right before this new relationship it was easy to turn on Fox and hear how we were entering a recession due to Bill Clinton and several other issues they continually nailed him on.

So I have no doubt that he may have actually been against to war, but with whatever transpired during that time, this was something that he probably should have not bought up.  and no, I'm not a big Bill Clinton fan so I'm not saying this stuff to defend him.  It's based on observations during that time.

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2007, 08:50:59 AM »
Who cares what Bill Clinton says - he's not running for office

Clinton / Bush are two sides of the same coin

The best thing that could happen to this country would be to have no Clinton's or Bush's in the government

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2007, 08:52:02 AM »
Obama vs. Huck.

What a general election that would be!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Decker

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2007, 08:54:10 AM »
Complexity.

Aftermath of 9/11.  Political mindset: protect the US citizens at all costs by destroying our attackers.

President purposefully ties Iraq to 9/11 and lays out the case which is a manufactured lie from the start.

President asks for authorization to use force, if necessary, to make Iraq disarm under UN law

Politicians are cornered by this "Iraq threat" and the tender national state of mind re protecting ourselves.

Politicians give Bush the authority to use Force if necessary to disarm Hussein.

Bush violates international law by ordering the invasion of Iraq

The troops are on the ground and suffering casualties. 

The president decries any questioning of the propriety of the war as "not supporting the troops" i.e., TREASON

There's nothing in that article that shows Clinton flip-flopped.  John Kerry supported "the Iraq thing" as well until Bush broke the law by invading the country.  Then he voted against the $87 billion dollars.


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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2007, 09:22:27 AM »
are we now ready to admit that all politicians flip flop, BB? 



What?   ???  Another straw man.   ::)  This topic is about Bill Clinton, not Beach Bum.   

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2007, 09:23:36 AM »

There's nothing in that article that shows Clinton flip-flopped. 

"So, you're sitting there as president, you're reeling in the aftermath of (Sept. 11), so, yeah, you want to go get (Usama) bin Laden and do Afghanistan and all that. But you also have to say, 'Well, my first responsibility now is to try everything possible to make sure that this terrorist network and other terrorist networks cannot reach chemical and biological weapons or small amounts of fissile material. I've got to do that.' That's why I supported the Iraq thing," he is quoted telling the magazine.

Sounds like a flip flop to me. 

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2007, 09:27:08 AM »
What?   ???  Another straw man.   ::)  This topic is about Bill Clinton, not Beach Bum.   

ha ha - take a look in the mirror - you do it every day

you frequently alter the subject in some ridiculous way, make fun of the changed subject (i.e knock down the straw man) and then pretend you've addressed the original topic.

btw - this is a common tactic of the right wing but I don't see it too often on the left.





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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2007, 09:28:12 AM »
ha ha - take a look in the mirror - you do it every day

you frequently alter the subject in some ridiculous way, make fun of the changed subject (i.e knock down the straw man) and then pretend you've addressed the original topic.

btw - this is a common tactic of the right wing but I don't see it too often on the left.






 ::)

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2007, 09:29:11 AM »
::)

and then when you're stuck you whip out the eye roll

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2007, 09:31:18 AM »
and then when you're stuck you whip out the eye roll

 ::)  ::)

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2007, 09:39:59 AM »
::)  ::)

doing it twice just makes it twice as lame

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2007, 09:41:51 AM »
and then when you're stuck you whip out the eye roll

he's a moderator too.  

helping to give a good example of great debate teachnique.

ask him about the lastest Sam Walton book!

and, just so my post isn't ALL negative, allow me to interject these 2 points:



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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2007, 09:47:34 AM »
he's a moderator too.  

helping to give a good example of great debate teachnique.

ask him about the lastest Sam Walton book!

and, just so my post isn't ALL negative, allow me to interject these 2 points:




even stranger - your comment that all politicians flip flop is not even a straw man (ie. fake) argument.   It's completely germane to the topic and to BB own comments which were "flip flop" that he wrote at the top of the article.

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2007, 09:57:38 AM »
BB is a terrible debater and corrupts good debates with distraction tactics everytime he is proven to be uneducated, guessing, or outright wrong.

Luckily,

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2007, 10:01:46 AM »
BB is a terrible debater and corrupts good debates with distraction tactics everytime he is proven to be uneducated, guessing, or outright wrong.

Luckily,

Yeah but you have to give him credit - he does have quite a few books on the bookshelf in his office.  It's weird how he always mentions that a book is on his bookshelf rather than just saying he's actually read the book.


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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2007, 10:05:14 AM »
Yeah but you have to give him credit - he does have quite a few books on the bookshelf in his office.  It's weird how he always mentions that a book is on his bookshelf rather than just saying he's actually read the book.

Yes, his line that "I have no idea who the Waltons are" after telling us that he's read Sam Walton's book was pretty telling.

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2007, 10:15:37 AM »
BB is a terrible debater and corrupts good debates with distraction tactics everytime he is proven to be uneducated, guessing, or outright wrong.

Luckily,
Are those ass implants :-X

Decker

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2007, 10:21:36 AM »
"So, you're sitting there as president, you're reeling in the aftermath of (Sept. 11), so, yeah, you want to go get (Usama) bin Laden and do Afghanistan and all that. But you also have to say, 'Well, my first responsibility now is to try everything possible to make sure that this terrorist network and other terrorist networks cannot reach chemical and biological weapons or small amounts of fissile material. I've got to do that.' That's why I supported the Iraq thing," he is quoted telling the magazine.

Sounds like a flip flop to me. 
That's b/c you want to see a flip flop where one has clearly not occurred.  That's ok, you and a few million other people also thought kerry was a flip-flopper on the same subject. 

I'm glad that I could clear this up for you.

Here's the nutshell: support Bush to force Iraq disarmament, Bush breaks law, support is withdrawn

That's pretty easy to see.  I'm glad people can impose a simplistic conclusion on what turns out to be rather complex (notwithstanding my nutshell example)

Option D

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2007, 10:34:03 AM »
Obama vs. Huck.

What a general election that would be!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dub 4 Izzo (240)

I was thinking and wanted your opinion on this...do you think obama would be a refreshing president because he isnt a career politician so he wouldnt be inclined to play the washington political games?

Decker

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2007, 10:36:17 AM »
Obama is already playing political games by trying to appeal to the right with his earnest tackling of the social security problem.

There is no social security problem.  Right wing elites pretend there is just to destroy the existing system.  And Obama is reaching out to them in a pathetic way.

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2007, 10:56:13 AM »
obama is a child.

richardson or dodd will give him advices.

but, bush readily admitted that he had ZERO foreign policy experience.  But we were okay with it, cause we knew there was good ol' cheney to make sure nothing got messed up.  Cheney had more experience than anyone in DC.  And, as we saw, he used it to engineer war.

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2007, 11:04:44 AM »
obama is a child.

richardson or dodd will give him advices.

but, bush readily admitted that he had ZERO foreign policy experience.  But we were okay with it, cause we knew there was good ol' cheney to make sure nothing got messed up.  Cheney had more experience than anyone in DC.  And, as we saw, he used it to engineer war.

is the same thing i thought...but he seems to me  (and im not sure if its a good or bad thing..depends on who you ask) to have a we are the world, Kum-Bye-Ya approach to Foreign policy...

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Re: Bill Clinton Tells Iowans: I 'Opposed Iraq' From Start
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2007, 11:07:34 AM »
yeah, he'd pick an older wise running mate to even that out.