Author Topic: SHBG reduction (Read 4823 times)

Tapeworm · « **on:** July 06, 2007, 03:16:22 AM »

I know it's a long shot, but are there any foods/herbs/supps/other which will reduce sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) levels?

Got my blood tests back today and SHBGs were right at the top of the scale.

DK II · « **Reply #1 on:** July 06, 2007, 04:43:02 AM »

Whow, that's an interesting one. Would like to know about that, too!

Tapeworm · « **Reply #2 on:** July 06, 2007, 05:43:12 AM »

So far, it's lookin' a lot like insulin.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=PubMed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=2168012&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2842359&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=PubMed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=7536204&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus

I've got an appointment with a SECOND doc on Mon, so I'm getting educated. The first guy said my SHBG level of 44 out of range of 10-50 was "fine, nothing to worry about." Then he refused to give me a referal to an endo.

Call me crazy, but I want a second opinion.

As a point of interest, on my way out the door I asked the guy if insulin might help since I eat almost all low GI carbs. He assured me that wouldn't help and there was nothing I could do.

DK II · « **Reply #3 on:** July 06, 2007, 05:50:55 AM »

ok, thanks.

keep me updated please, this is really interesting.

hooker · « **Reply #4 on:** July 06, 2007, 06:13:41 AM »

I have a nutritional product on the market which contains an ingredient that will lower SHBG. The product is called "CyoGenX" and the ingredient is Stinging Nettle. However, it's not a great buy if you are only looking to lower SHBG... you can get a higher dose at a lower price by buying a product like "Unleashed".

Tapeworm · « **Reply #5 on:** July 06, 2007, 06:19:02 AM »

Will do mate.

Note that I take dextrose before, during, and after a workout in an effort to displace cortisol, usually 100g in total, but other carbs are usually very low GI. I'm wondering if mid to high GI foods will yield the same cortisol blocking benefits, but extend the insulin response so as to have an impact on SHBGs.

Tapeworm · « **Reply #6 on:** July 06, 2007, 06:20:30 AM »

Quote from: hooker on July 06, 2007, 06:13:41 AM

I have a nutritional product on the market which contains an ingredient that will lower SHBG. The product is called "CyoGenX" and the ingredient is Stinging Nettle. However, it's not a great buy if you are only looking to lower SHBG... you can get a higher dose at a lower price by buying a product like "Unleashed".

Thanks mate, I'm all ears. Do you have a link to research done on these products?

hooker · « **Reply #7 on:** July 06, 2007, 09:55:58 AM »

I believe there is references in the ad copy for both. Check out ProteinFactory.com and look them up, and all of the references are there.

Tapeworm · « **Reply #8 on:** July 06, 2007, 10:59:44 AM »

Suprise suprise, I wound up at a site selling supps with steroid sound-alike names. Just for fun I googled "Metandesenolone." This brought up quite a few interesting links involving you, Mr. "Roberts."
I'm afraid your reputation has preceeded you.

Fwiw, "research" involves administering YOUR product to a group, having a control group, observing the differences between the groups and recording the data, then publishing your findings in a peer reviewed journal. Just saying "Our product does this 'cause it's got this stuff in it" doesn't constitute research on your product no matter how many footnotes you provide (although "21. Effect of resveratrol on herpes simplex virus vaginal infection in the mouse. Antiviral Res. 2005 Sep;67(3):155-62." cracked me up!

).

Thanks for stopping by.

DK II · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2007, 11:04:48 AM »

Quote from: Tapeworm on July 06, 2007, 10:59:44 AM

Suprise suprise, I wound up at a site selling supps with steroid sound-alike names. Just for fun I googled "Metandesenolone." This brought up quite a few interesting links involving you, Mr. "Roberts."
I'm afraid your reputation has preceeded you.

Fwiw, "research" involves administering YOUR product to a group, having a control group, observing the differences between the groups and recording the data, then publishing your findings in a peer reviewed journal. Just saying "Our product does this 'cause it's got this stuff in it" doesn't constitute research on your product no matter how many footnotes you provide (although "21. Effect of resveratrol on herpes simplex virus vaginal infection in the mouse. Antiviral Res. 2005 Sep;67(3):155-62." cracked me up! ).

Thanks for stopping by.

Thanks tapeworm! Good work, no wait: Great work!

Tapeworm · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2007, 11:09:53 AM »

Ya, I'm in no mood to be buying snake oil today.

DK II · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2007, 11:11:32 AM »

Quote from: Tapeworm on July 06, 2007, 11:09:53 AM

Ya, I'm in no mood to be buying snake oil today.

I have some bee pollen on stack, wanna buy? only 99.99!

Dr. D · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2007, 02:02:54 PM »

Tape,
First off, I would never use blood testing to check any hormones in the body, you should use Saliva testing to be accurate. Blood test are more inaccurate than anything. As for SHBG, low levels are typically due to
high circulating blood sugar and insulin levels. Insulin influences the
androgenic state by affecting metabolism of ovarian androgens but also by
regulating circulating levels of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG).
Insulin has been show to lower SHBG (which binds to estrogen and
testosterone making them unavailable).
As for high levels, this is typically due to high circulating levels of
estrogen in the body. This can be from stress, liver not being able to
detoxify it, plastics, etc.

DK II · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2007, 02:06:49 PM »

eeeeew.

Dr. D · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2007, 02:13:11 PM »

Quote from: DonkeyKong on July 06, 2007, 02:06:49 PM

eeeeew.

ha, that just made me laugh for some strange reason.

Tapeworm · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2007, 10:26:41 PM »

Quote from: Dr. D on July 06, 2007, 02:02:54 PM

Tape,
First off, I would never use blood testing to check any hormones in the body, you should use Saliva testing to be accurate. Blood test are more inaccurate than anything. As for SHBG, low levels are typically due to
high circulating blood sugar and insulin levels. Insulin influences the
androgenic state by affecting metabolism of ovarian androgens but also by
regulating circulating levels of sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG).
Insulin has been show to lower SHBG (which binds to estrogen and
testosterone making them unavailable).
As for high levels, this is typically due to high circulating levels of
estrogen in the body. This can be from stress, liver not being able to
detoxify it, plastics, etc.

I'm planning to ask this guy about the accuracy of the test. They wouldn't draw blood unless I was in a fasted state, which I questioned since I'm never in a fasted state, but they insisted. Most of the studies I've come across so far (testing insulin and other things as an anti-SHBG) used an incubation period of 3-7 days, so I'm not sure if fasting for 12 hours would necessarily have a big impact on levels, but I'm going to ask. Also meant to ask about saliva testing but forgot to put it on the list of questions until now - thanks D.

Apparently, SHBGs bond preferentially to DHT and T over estrogen, so I'm concerned that a high SHBG level will act as a free estrogen promoter. Unfortunately, I don't have an androgen breakdown for ya, so I don't know what my E levels are. Nothing weird with my nipples tho.

T level was slightly over the middle of the range, but FAI (free androgen index) was 54 in a range of 20 to 160. I anticipate this next guy will be a GP who probably spends most of his time treating kids with the flu. If he doesn't seem well versed in endocrinology, I'm going to try to get a referal to a specialist - again. I'm not after drugs (yet), but I'm hoping to find someone knowledgeable who won't just rush me out the door telling me there's nothing I can do.

BTW - I'm not a freaky hypochondriac

, haven't been to a doc for over 15 years, but I figure this is something worth looking into.

Dr. D · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2007, 12:59:15 AM »

I would contact my colleague out in CA, Dr. Dan Kalish. He is a master when it comes to Hormones.
http://www.drkalish.com/

We both use test kits from Bio-Diagnostics: http://www.biodia.com/
Saliva Testing is the way to go. Blood Testing is crap and never gives an accurate result.
Saliva lets you know what's going on in your cells as for blood, it will tell you what's going outside your cells, urine test is just an overflow from what the blood cells could be. Remember, blood is a transport system, so results can vary at any minute.

hooker · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2007, 07:18:14 AM »

Honestly, it's pretty well known that SHBG is lowered by stinging nettle (Urtica Dioca). As for links and "interesting things" attached to my name, that's fine. There's tons of idiotic rumours about me. Notice, though...that you don't find them on any important (or decent) boards ...steroid.com, Isteroids, MesoRx, EliteFitness, etc...

There's a reason for that...it's because they're just that...bullshit rumours. As for my reputation, I've written 3 books, and designed 3 nutritional supplements. Check the "reputation" of people slamming me. They've done nothing, and will do nothing.

Anyway, here's the information on Stinging Nettle reducing SHBG:

Planta Med. 1997 Dec;63(6):529-32.Links
Lignans from the roots of Urtica dioica and their metabolites bind to human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG).
Schöttner M, Gansser D, Spiteller G.

Lehrstuhl Organische Chemie I, Universität Bayreuth, Germany.

Polar extracts of the stinging nettle (Urtica dioica L.) roots contain the ligans (+)-neoolivil, (-)-secoisolariciresinol, dehydrodiconiferyl alcohol, isolariciresinol, pinoresinol, and 3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran. These compounds were either isolated from Urtica roots, or obtained semisynthetically. Their affinity to human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) was tested in an in vitro assay. In addition, the main intestinal transformation products of plant lignans in humans, enterodiol and enterolactone, together with enterofuran were checked for their activity. All lignans except (-)-pinoresinol developed a binding affinity to SHBG in the in vitro assay. The affinity of (-)-3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran was outstandingly high. These findings are discussed with respect to potential beneficial effects of plant lignans on benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH).

PMID: 9434605 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

G Diesel · « **Reply #18 on:** July 07, 2007, 10:06:58 AM »

Two herbs purported to do so are Urtica Dioca (as mentioned before) and Avena Sativa. Peace, G

Tapeworm · « **Reply #19 on:** July 08, 2007, 09:08:30 AM »

Dr D - thanks man. I've got my appointment tomorrow, so I'll see how it goes. The guy you mentioned looks interesting tho, so I might contact him after getting a saliva test, depending on how helpful this doc out here is. If your guy isn't too expensive, he might be useful as a soundingboard for my or my doc's ideas. This stuff looks to be right up his alley.

Hooker - Ok, that's good stuff there. I've developed an allergic reaction to scammy supps named after anabolics, but my apologies to you if you aren't affiliated with them. There's quite a few other studies out there which confirm Stinging Nettle root extract as an SHBG antagonist in vitro.

So 1 - ensure the validity of the testing, then if needed:
2 - Address variations in diet and workouts which might help (T3 is an SHBG promoter)
3 - Look at herbs and supps if required.

There's a "free androgen debate" as to whether or not SHBGs are an entirely bad thing. I mean, we've probably got them for a reason right? One study showed SHBGs helped transport of androgens across the blood/brain barrier... whatever that means. Another study I read, and simple observation of AAS users, suggests that a lower SHBG to T ration is better than a higher one tho, so I'm just out to reduce them, not eliminate 'em, and see the results.

powerpack · « **Reply #20 on:** July 08, 2007, 10:34:37 AM »

Eurycoma (Longjack extract complex)the main ingrediant in RED KAT and is also found in many T booster like UNIVERSAL ANIMAL STAK2 is meant to bind to SHBG.