Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Zugzwang on August 13, 2005, 02:33:12 PM
-
Or, as I suspect, just a glorified advert?
This is quite a famous article, that was published a few years back:
The Beast Evolves (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=256beast2)
Within, fitness trainer and T-Nation contributor Christian Thibaudeau offers the inside scoop on his fourteen-week transformation from strong-but-fat to Vin Diesel-like stud.
Before: 230 pounds, 18% bodyfat:
(http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/256before2.jpg)
After: 204 pounds, 5% bodyfat. The pics were taken 14 weeks apart.
(http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/256cs12.jpg)
(http://www.worldtalkradio.com/show/91/session/CT.jpg)
As we all know, the fitness world revolves around these kinds of scams. Before and after pictures, usually taken within the magical twelve weeks, that show a pale and lardy Mr X turning into a rock-hard uber-stud by just following this certain system. Luckily enough, you can BUY this system, AND the products! :D
I have no beef with Thibaudeau; he writes interesting articles and has a different take from most BB writers. But T-Nation is, of course, run by Biotest, and Biotest has stuff to sell. Lots of stuff. And within The Beast Evolves, you quickly realise that a big part of Thibaudeau's agenda is peddling Biotest's wares.
First, he gives us the three reasons why his program worked well for *him*:
• I had the motivation to go all the way. I saw it as part of my job.
• I had the time. Writing articles and working with athletes gives me a very flexible schedule.
• I had the resources. Training-wise I had access to myself (I know a thing or two about training) and was helped by two great guys as far as dieting goes. I also had access to all the Biotest supplements I wanted except MAG-10. (Damn Canadian customs!)
The last part is where the plugs begin. In his daily supplements table, he takes the following Biotest products: Tribex, M, Power Drive, Myostat. These bad boys ain't cheap, especially in the dosages he recommends. He also uses Yohimburn DF, but kinda dismisses it, as such:
Along with the Biotest goodies, you may notice I tried Yohimburn, which is advertised as a topical fat burner and local diuretic. Did it work? It may have helped some, especially as I got leaner. Since I pretty much did everything perfect I can't vouch that the Yohimburn actually had a great effect, though. The formula I used also contained some diuretic agents so there might have been some water loss.
So basically, it's all Biotest. :)
His concluding words are a gem:
I'd like to say that my body transformation has brought me nothing but positives. I gained the respect of my athletes and of T-mag readers; I'm now much healthier and have more energy; I get a lot more attention from women (if you're into that sort of thing!) and my lifting has actually improved!
A drug-free transformation such as mine is within your reach, too. I always believed (and still believe) that I have about the worst genetics in the world, at least when it comes to getting lean. My whole family has a history of weight problems and I wasn't spared. So if I can get lean, there's no reason why you can't!
Furthermore, with HOT-ROX now available it will make your task that much easier! I started using it right after my physical transformation plan when it became available and, despite being less strict with my diet and doing less energy system work, I actually got leaner still! In fact, after one week of use I e-mailed Tim Patterson to tell him that I almost felt ashamed of posting my body transformation pictures because after only one week on HOT-ROX I was leaner than ever!
I was also a victim of Canadian customs. As a result, I couldn't receive any MAG-10 or 4-AD-EC. There's no doubt in my mind that my progress would have been much faster and I would have gained much more muscle size if those products had been available to me.
Key parts again in bold.
So, what gives? Thibaudeau obviously looks good now. He's certainly not huge, or anything, but he did compete a bit, I believe, and looked okay. It's certainly possible to get into great shape in fourteen weeks, bur the heavy plugging within the article rings all kinds of alarm bells.
Is this another scam that folk need to be alerted to, or is Biotest the only firm in the world that actually did this legitimately and proved that their overpriced products actually do the job? ;)
-
Hmmm,
I was inclined to agree with you regarding the validity of his claims (and I still do), but if you look at the before and after pictures (#1 and #3) ... It looks as if in the relaxed twist, he has a LOT of loose skin around his obliques. Perhaps his claim is true? It might just be the lighting, or his boxers pulled above his pants (I hope not)?
Anyways, given the proper determination and strategy, anything is possible. Including his transformation.
-
Hmmm,
I was inclined to agree with you regarding the validity of his claims (and I still do), but if you look at the before and after pictures (#1 and #3) ... It looks as if in the relaxed twist, he has a LOT of loose skin around his obliques. Perhaps his claim is true? It might just be the lighting, or his boxers pulled above his pants (I hope not)?
Anyways, given the proper determination and strategy, anything is possible. Including his transformation.
Oh, I'm pretty sure those are definitely before and after shots... the question is how long apart. ;) Could be years! Problem is as far as I can tell on T-Nation those shots of CT looking grim are the ONLY ones of him. As you'd expect, in all the others he's a superstud.
But you're definitely correct in your last paragraph; it's believeable, and if you read the comments most folk think he's on the straight and narrow, but it's the endless plugging that makes me think 'scam'. If he'd have been slightly less pro-Biotest and slightly-more 'use your favourite protein powder', I'd have been less suspicious. I know it's a BT site, but still. It's a bit too much. A bit Muscletech.
-
Looks very believable.
Thing is, he could've done it using any kind of supplement company product line.
Or, without.
It's all about using a perfect diet, which could be cheaper if you use products that are sold by companies that are legit.
Biotest, a company that's been trying to sell us numerous shit products over the years, like the Myostat blocker, without even recognize that they were wrong, and somehow trying to make up for the ripoff, is a company not to be trusted.
Of course not.
They probably have decent products, but with fcukups like the Methoxy, numerous pro-whoremoans and said Myostat blocker, they are zilch.
Thibaudeau's (sp?) improvements looks like real. Timeframe is short, but possible for someone very dedicated.
The improvements had nothing to do with the supplements however. He could've used any fat burner on the market IMO, with just as good results, et al.
Good physique.
YIP
Zack
-
LOL @ 14 weeks...
Did he claim to be natural? I didn't wanna read all that
(http://www.240orbust.com/gb/240banner.gif)
-
LOL @ 14 weeks...
Did he claim to be natural? I didn't wanna read all that
What's so hard to believe? And why is the natural status in question? He didn't stay at 230 lbs, or anywhere close. He could've gained 2-3 lbs of lean mass, if that.
YIP
Zack
-
I went to a formation about training and nutrition given by christian here in quebec and the guy definitly knows his shit. And I mean really ! Plus he does have some really big arms :o.
the transformation is definitly legit
-
It was the Myostat........I need some of that shit. ::)
-
LOL @ 14 weeks...
Did he claim to be natural? I didn't wanna read all that
(http://www.240orbust.com/gb/240banner.gif)
Dude, its EASILY possible to get that.
He looks good, lacks a chest tho.
-
Here is my opinion on the matter:
He got clean for a period of time and gained some body fat. He then resumed his drug cycle and trained hard while watching his diet.
It appears very clear to me that he is not clean in the "after" shots. You don't get that overly vascular, puffy and yet hard look without being on something.
I think his overall appearance is good especially in his mid-section but he doesn't seem to get much size from whatever he is taking.
-
He's still a pud.
-
::) ::) ::) ::)
Biotest (and 98% of all supplement companies) marketing tactics are dubious at best. If nothing else, it's entertaining reading.
-
If we're going to critique everything that is written on a companies own website for sly marketing I think we're going to be here for eternity.
-
Well, first of all at least post most flattering pictures of me ;)
The story is absolutely true (like it or not :) ). In fact, I had never even planned on doing a physical transformation. You might not believe it, but in the "before" shots I actually believed that I was in good shape! I was still competing in olympic lifting at that time and only really cared about strength. It may not look like it because of the fat, but I actually had as much muscle if not more in the before shots. At that time I *full* squatted (close-stance, no belt, no wraps) over 550lbs for 5 reps, front squatted 435lbs, snatched over 300lbs and cleaned close to 385lbs. Although I didn't train the bench press as much, I still managed a 425lbs lift.
So the muscle was there. And the pics really make me look worst than I was. HOWEVER that was not on purpose. As I said, at that point I had no intention of doing a physical transformation much less write an article about it!
The "before" pictures were actually taken during one of my M.Sc. classes (biomechanics). They were for a postural analysis performed with a computer program called "Biotonix". This explains the white balls, which are anatomical markers for the software.
When I saw the pics I was actually stuned! But that wasn't even enough to make me go on a diet because I feared loosing strength. However in training I strained my left biceps which basically meant no heavy pulling for 3 months. So I decided "what the heck" let's get cut!
The transformation really took 14 weeks. However I'm in much better shape now.
About the Biotest thing ... I won't lie ... I work for them. But that doesn't mean that I have to "pimp" anything. They pay me to write articles, not sell products. However I really use their products and those I use do make a difference. That having been said, proper nutrition and training is still 95% of the battle.
-
are you claiming to have made those gains without steroids?
-
To set things straight I'll try to post some pics and will tell you when they were taking in relation to the "transformation".
First one was taken at the end of a power clean and dates from around 1-2 monts before I started my transformation.
The second one was taken something like 6-7 weeks into the transformaton...
more to follow
-
Those two were taken for a class I gave on postural corrective training and are approximately 9-10 weeks into the transformation.
More to come.
-
These ones were taken after 12 weeks.
-
These were taken after 14 weeks.
-
These were taken about 1 year after the transformation.
-
Thise were taken about 5 months ago
-
And you can even look at this one from 1992 ... that's pretty much my whole photo album!!! ;)
-
CT -
Nice to see you over here as well, especially backing yourself up.
-
he has a LOT of loose skin around his obliques. Perhaps his claim is true? It might just be the lighting, or his boxers pulled above his pants (I hope not)?
It's actually a track suit ;) .... this pic was taken after a track workout
-
I think the answer to the original question is...."yes"...
(Great post, CT....!)
Mufasa
-
He's like Louis Dorman on roids.
-
What is the big deal, you see these all the time...
Offseason bodybuilder in mass mode, eating whatever and training like an animal...
Competition comes up, and cuts himself to shreds.
-
Well, first of all at least post most flattering pictures of me ;)
Well, I couldn't make it too unbelievable! ;)
Thanks for taking the time to post all that CT. As I said in my original post it wasn't a personal attack and I hope it wasn't taken that way. I've read that article many times in the past and it's niggled at me for a while.
Anyhow, I'd better rush off now and get my Biotest order in. Any other supplements you'd care to recommend?
Cheers. 8)
-
where did his hair go?
wooooooooooooooooooooooo sh
-
5% bf?? i call bs on that. he would have straitions on his delts and lines in his chest.
-
5% bf?? i call bs on that. he would have straitions on his delts and lines in his chest.
Looks 5% to me..
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=36139.0;id=37317;image)
-
Looks 5% to me..
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=36139.0;id=37317;image)
Yes, but by CT's own admission, that shot is a year to 15 1/2 months, depending on you read it, after he started dieting.
In some of those shots he looks in the mid- high single digits BF% wise.
I think he did naturally, it's not that hard for a trained athlete to do similar in a few months.
-
To set things straight I'll try to post some pics and will tell you when they were taking in relation to the "transformation".
First one was taken at the end of a power clean and dates from around 1-2 monts before I started my transformation.
The second one was taken something like 6-7 weeks into the transformaton...
more to follow
CT,
you're doing lots of Olympic Lifting, and some powerlifting = I think you're a reliable fella. 8)
What's your best snatch? And I gather you train Russian? You've seen the updated Bulgarian protocol, 8 workouts/week?
Only recently discovered OL myself. It's where it's at. It's the greatest test.
YIP
Zack
-
You squatted 550 lbs for 5 reps with no belt or knee wraps? That is very impressive. That is even quite good for a competitive Olympic lifter. Do you have any videos to back up this claim? I would love to see it.
-
To set things straight I'll try to post some pics and will tell you when they were taking in relation to the "transformation".
First one was taken at the end of a power clean and dates from around 1-2 monts before I started my transformation.
The second one was taken something like 6-7 weeks into the transformaton...
more to follow
Hmmm, you seem to be strangely lacking in elbow and wrist flexibility for a competitive Olympic lifter. You are only able to hold the bar at chest level with 2 fingers. I know that is how some coaches will teach football players to front squat if they don't have the flexibility to do it properly using the clean grip. Why is that?
I have never seen someone finish a power clean with that kind of a grip.
Are you sure about those lifting claims you have made?
-
I was giving this some thought. I will comment no further.
You obviously know the truth and I think I do as well so any further comments on my part serve no greater good.
-
Hmmm, you seem to be strangely lacking in elbow and wrist flexibility for a competitive Olympic lifter. You are only able to hold the bar at chest level with 2 fingers. I know that is how some coaches will teach football players to front squat if they don't have the flexibility to do it properly using the clean grip. Why is that?
I have never seen someone finish a power clean with that kind of a grip.
Are you sure about those lifting claims you have made?
Have you ever seen Georgi Gardev? He's a Bulgarian lifer and if you think my wrist flexibility is bad you should see his!!! In a training tape he is performing front squats and he is holding the bar with the tip of two fingers. During his set his right arm actually comes flying off and he continues his set only holding the bar with his left arm and crossing his right one accroos his throat!
Andrei Chemerkin cannot even put the bar on his clavicle when he power cleans ... I saw him in person not able to rack 235kg on his clavicle... the bar needed to be at least 250kg to touch his shoulders/collar bone.
I have trained at the Canadian performance center with several members of the National team and a LOT of them are unable to rack a bar with a full grip.
As for being legit claims. I did snatch 120kg in competition and clean 152,5kg in competition. I have never been a platform lifter because I get very nervous and am very poor at stress management. Not to mention that I have very small hands and I'm limited by this in the snatch. My all time best snatch without straps is 125kg and my chest snatch with straps is 142,5kg, to give you an idea.
BTW, catching the bar with a finger grip isn't a sign of inferior wrist flexibility but rather:
a) a lack of latissimus dorsi flexibility
b) proportionally shorter upper arm and longer forearm
c) small hands
In my case it's due to b) and c).
-
CT, When you used that company's product and made that transformation in 14 weeks, did you use gear too?
If so, it kinda invalidates whatever product you're representing. If not, your progress is tremendous, and congrats.
-
This one is a bit better as far as the grip goes. But as you can see the bending of the wrist is actually the same as most olympic liters, the elbows are high enough. It's really a matter of:
a) small hands
But also (and a true olympic lifting expert like you are should know that) that we change our grip between the clean portion and the jerk portion of the lift. While we pull we use a hook grip (fingers wrapped around our thumb... so the thumb is pinned against the bar by the fingers) and immediately as we complete the clean portion we switch to a regular or open hand grip. This is part of the reason why the hands are opened. The pictures are actually snapped during that grip transition.
But you already knew that right?
-
CT, When you used that company's product and made that transformation in 14 weeks, did you use gear too?
If so, it kinda invalidates whatever product you're representing. If not, your progress is tremendous, and congrats.
Hey hey ... I told the guy who emailed me about this thread that within a week the gear subject would come up!!! Looks like I was right again ;)
I've been through this a zillion times and do not wish to start a big debate again. So I'll stick to the short version.
I used steroids when I was 18 Y.O. because of it I had to be rushed to the hospital and had emergency surgery performed. 24 hours more and I would have died. Death is something that make you reconsider some things. For me it was actually a blessing in disguise as it motivated me to learn as much as possible about the best training methods available. I also experimented with just about every type of diet possible and tried all the supplements that were made available between 1995 and today.
Did I ever use steroids in my life? Yes, 11 years ago and for a short period of time. Did I use gear to achieve the original transformation? No.
Thats pretty much it.
Oh yeah ... some peoples could say that even if I did use gear I wouldn't say it because it would undermine my credibility; they would be right!!! There's nothing I can do about opinions like that. So I guess you can either trust me or think I'm a liar. Either way, there isn't much more I can do.
-
Are you sure about those lifting claims you have made?
Quite sure :)
However these lifts could not even be considered good by olympic lifting standards. Even my best training lifts performed with straps would leave me something like 4th or 5th in Canada and about 200th in the world ;)
I started olympic lifting late in life (at 21 years of age, after I quite football) so my technique and efficiency never were up to the level of my strength.
I used to train with the Canadian champion in the 105kg class. I would outlift him in the squat, front squat, and push press but he would cream my a** on the competition lifts.
I think my best asset as a coach is that I played and competed in many sports (hockey, baseball, football, rugby, golf, olympic lifting, powerlifting, strongman comps, bodybuilding, basketball) but really was never better than average at them. Mostly because of my genetic limits as an athlete. However I learned a ton about how to correct flaws. The best of the best seldom make good coaches. Those who have to work hard just to stay in the game are those you want on your side.
-
man, well congrats. Those are some amazing gains, and the vasularity you show is unreal.
-
He's bought supplements from me a few times. From my limited dealings, he seems like a very legit guy.
-
He's bought supplements from me a few times. From my limited dealings, he seems like a very legit guy.
A few times? Any supplements I don't get from Biotest I buy from you :)
-
man, well congrats. Those are some amazing gains, and the vasularity you show is unreal.
Well I'm not sure if vascularity is a good thing as it's often correlated with high blood pressure (which is remplant in my family). Oddly my girlfriend (a competitive bodybuilder) doesn't like veins and she is actually a lot more vascular than me :) Well, she is 3 weeks out from the Cnadian championships so it's understandable.
-
Hey CT,
Where in Canada are you? Also I personally found the opposite, my BP used to be VERY low and I was more vascualr then ??? Great transformation tho!
-
This one is a bit better as far as the grip goes. But as you can see the bending of the wrist is actually the same as most olympic liters, the elbows are high enough. It's really a matter of:
a) small hands
But also (and a true olympic lifting expert like you are should know that) that we change our grip between the clean portion and the jerk portion of the lift. While we pull we use a hook grip (fingers wrapped around our thumb... so the thumb is pinned against the bar by the fingers) and immediately as we complete the clean portion we switch to a regular or open hand grip. This is part of the reason why the hands are opened. The pictures are actually snapped during that grip transition.
But you already knew that right?
a) Not all Olympic lifters use the hook grip.
b) You said you were performing a powerclean in the first photo which would negate your above statements about switching your grip. Of course, if you were performing a powerclean to be followed by a jerk, press, or push press then you should have stated that.
c) Having a poor grip when racking the barbell is due to the reasons you mentioned with forearm length being a major factor but wrist and elbow flexibility also play into it.
d) I am definitely NOT an expert on Olympic lifting but I have a decent working knowledge of it.
e) Your unequipped Olympic lifts were nowhere near world class, you are correct. What I was referring to was your claimed Olympic squat of 550 lbs+ using no wraps etc.
f) Wtf does "remplant" mean?
-
WTF is so hard to believe? You idiots are familiar with the concept of a DIET ,right? Seems to me this dude commited himself. to a good,clean diet and training routine for 3 months and dropped some serious bodyfat. The muscle was already there. Congrats dude. Geez, every time someone post pics and actually has a decent build, people start screaming "steroids" and "bullshit". Not everyone has the T-levels of a 12 year old girl like the whiners here, Some people actually................ ........................ .................RESPOND TO TRAINING!!!!
-
THANK YOU, GROINK!
Another thing that CT did (besides bust his ass in the gym and CONSISTENTLY and FAITHFULLY diet)...was that he has busted his ass to become one of the most knowlegable trainers around...bar none...
All one has to do is read the body of work that he has compiled in only a few short years...and how he has APPLIED that knowledge not only to himself...but has SHARED that knowledge with his clients and thousands on the Internet...
Are the only people in this buisness who DON'T get torn down the ones who do nothing? Is there some personal and/or professional jealousy or gripe here?
Quite frankly, I don't understand where half the post in this thread are coming from...
Mufasa
-
Go Christian!,
excellent condition and results. I achieved similar condition(at a much smaller size) by training and eating very strictly about 6/7 years ago(before medicine took over) so I believe the transformation and will even overlook the blatant product endorsement.
Sincerely congrats but if some younger/novice BB's/lifters ask for your opinion I hope you will be honest enough to tell them that regarding 99% of gimicky powders and pills in the glossy magazine adds, their money would be much better spent on steak, tuna, fresh fruit and veg, good quality carbs and a good protein powder and maybe creatine/glutamine.
regards and well done again,
The Doc(M.D.) :)
-
500 grams of protein is totally unnecessary. I bet if he got less protein and more carbs at the same calories he would have got the same results.
-
500 grams of protein is totally unnecessary. I bet if he got less protein and more carbs at the same calories he would have got the same results.
If he ate 500 grams of protein on a regular basis, I seriously questioning what kind of nutritional theory he's basing that on.
CT's quite an athlete, wonder if he was able to regain any of the strength after he took the pictures. The 230 lbs was obviously a few pounds on the heavy side, my guess he would've been lifting just as good at around 215 lbs, or just under.
YIP
Zack
-
I personally don't even come close to 500 g and I have no problem staying at 240-245. But if it works for him,great. I think those protein reqirements are pumped up a little to sell some product.wouldn't be the first time.
-
Was it all really worth losing EVERY single damn hair on your bald head dude????????????
-
I trust Christian and respect him. He speaks his mind and knows his stuff. I own his book of training secrets and his DVD on Cluster Training. I've gained a lot by following CT and Ian King. I personally find it irritating that there are a few people here who have to belittle any one who makes decent gains and attribute any improvements to steroids. We should be cheering those who work hard for results!
-
He's like Louis Dorman on roids.
Thanks! Its a great transformation, if you make this your lifestyle you can make this journey a fantastic voyage!
...
-
Thanks! Its a great transformation, if you make this your lifestyle you can make this journey a fantastic voyage!
...
HAHAHAHA someone googled their own name and found this thread. ::)
-
Looks 5% to me..
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=36139.0;id=37317;image)
you ain't whistling dixie...
-
i just wanted to chime in and say that "Thibs" is an amazing writer and he's one of the reason's why t-nation is a must read site
-
Well, first of all at least post most flattering pictures of me ;)
The story is absolutely true (like it or not :) ). In fact, I had never even planned on doing a physical transformation. You might not believe it, but in the "before" shots I actually believed that I was in good shape! I was still competing in olympic lifting at that time and only really cared about strength. It may not look like it because of the fat, but I actually had as much muscle if not more in the before shots. At that time I *full* squatted (close-stance, no belt, no wraps) over 550lbs for 5 reps, front squatted 435lbs, snatched over 300lbs and cleaned close to 385lbs. Although I didn't train the bench press as much, I still managed a 425lbs lift.
So the muscle was there. And the pics really make me look worst than I was. HOWEVER that was not on purpose. As I said, at that point I had no intention of doing a physical transformation much less write an article about it!
The "before" pictures were actually taken during one of my M.Sc. classes (biomechanics). They were for a postural analysis performed with a computer program called "Biotonix". This explains the white balls, which are anatomical markers for the software.
When I saw the pics I was actually stuned! But that wasn't even enough to make me go on a diet because I feared loosing strength. However in training I strained my left biceps which basically meant no heavy pulling for 3 months. So I decided "what the heck" let's get cut!
The transformation really took 14 weeks. However I'm in much better shape now.
About the Biotest thing ... I won't lie ... I work for them. But that doesn't mean that I have to "pimp" anything. They pay me to write articles, not sell products. However I really use their products and those I use do make a difference. That having been said, proper nutrition and training is still 95% of the battle.
Why did you shave your head?
-
Why did you shave your head?
why don't you shave yours ?
-
Perhaps I am misreading this, but aren't "MAG-10 or 4-AD-EC." cough cough
A drug-free transformation such as mine is within your reach, too. I always believed (and still believe) that I have about the worst genetics in the world, at least when it comes to getting lean. My whole family has a history of weight problems and I wasn't spared. So if I can get lean, there's no reason why you can't!
Furthermore, with HOT-ROX now available it will make your task that much easier! I started using it right after my physical transformation plan when it became available and, despite being less strict with my diet and doing less energy system work, I actually got leaner still! In fact, after one week of use I e-mailed Tim Patterson to tell him that I almost felt ashamed of posting my body transformation pictures because after only one week on HOT-ROX I was leaner than ever!
I was also a victim of Canadian customs. As a result, I couldn't receive any MAG-10 or 4-AD-EC. There's no doubt in my mind that my progress would have been much faster and I would have gained much more muscle size if those products had been available to me.
-
why don't you shave yours ?
;D
-
Guy's a fake. Uses gear. Doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. Tells lies just to push supplements.
-
Guy's a fake. Uses gear. Doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. Tells lies just to push supplements.
Timely response to a 15 year old thread.
I spent the last decade and a half thinking he was a good guy.
-
Timely response to a 15 year old thread.
I spent the last decade and a half thinking he was a good guy.
;D ;D ;D
-
Timely response to a 15 year old thread.
I spent the last decade and a half thinking he was a good guy.
:D
Wish I could go back to my 20s and tell myself not to send EAS my money.