Deporting all Palestinians

[OTHstrong]

It's not simply the Palestinians who claims its theirs, the entire international community sees it as theirs. Not a single government worldwide recognises Israel's right to be in Palestine.
Hence the universally used term "the occupied territories".

Nothing can be further from the truth, everyone recognizes Israel's right to be there, including Palestinians. The Palestinians will settle for Israel to live there as long as the land is shared evenly and as long as the Israeli's don't hog all the natural resource which seems to be the case.

[Conker]

Nothing can be further from the truth, everyone recognizes Israel's right to be there, including Palestinians. The Palestinians will settle for Israel to live there as long as the land is shared evenly and as long as the Israeli's don't hog all the natural resource which seems to be the case.

No... everyone recognises Israel's right to be in Israel as per pre 1967 boundaries, not a single nation on earth recognises Israel's right to expand(as they have/are) beyond said boundaries...

Surely you aware of this?

[OTHstrong]

No... everyone recognises Israel's right to be in Israel as per pre 1967 boundaries, not a single nation on earth recognises Israel's right to expand(as they have/are) beyond said boundaries...

Surely you aware of this?

Of course

Sinse you clarified your statement I agree with it, but that was not what you said in your original post

[Ron]

It is not as simple as you put it, Palestinians have a right to that country but so do the Jews, this has been on going for thousands of years and both have lived there for well over 3000 years. Now just my opinion but the Palestinians definitely deserve more then they are receiving.

The problem is not with the Palestinians. It is with Hamas, who does not want peace.  Many of the Palestinians and Arabs I have talked to over the year wants peace.  But if they say that, Hamas calls them an Israeli Collaborator and kills them. Not good.  They need to get rid of Hamas.  In the West Bank, things are pretty good, but they cannot achieve peace and their own state without the solution in Gaza.

It's not simply the Palestinians who claims its theirs, the entire international community sees it as theirs. Not a single government worldwide recognises Israel's right to be in Palestine.  Hence the universally used term "the occupied territories".

As usual, ignorant and a lie.  Almost all nations recognize Israel, with the exception of the Arab countries, and the countries that need the Arab oil or are their allies. Simple as that.  The occupied territories? You mean Gaza and the West Bank.  Um... I think that for 19 years after 1948, they could of had their own state... but oops... Jordan (who controlled the West Bank), and Egpyt (who controlled Gaza) would and did not let them. You are blaming Israel because Jordan and Egypt said screw Palestine? Funny.

No... everyone recognizes Israel's right to be in Israel as per pre 1967 boundaries, not a single nation on earth recognises Israel's right to expand(as they have/are) beyond said boundaries...

Pre-1967 borders.  Forget it.  A typical argument saying since Israel won the war in 1967, they should give back everything. Not going to happen. Now, a true negotiation might equal various land back in equal to it, and perhaps there can be a two state solution. But we need to wait until Hamas recognizes Israel before anything can happen. Stop blaming Israel. Blame Hamas.  All they need to do is recognize Israel and start negotiating instead of firing missiles and killing their own people.

Deporting All Palestinians

Guys, get real.  90% of Palestinians want peace and harmony.  It is the 10% of the radical and Hamas that dont let that happen, because they like the control and the fear.  If they lose that, they lose everything.  20% of the people living in Israel are of Arab decent.  You can get along.  But not if your leaders vow to destroy everything instead of trying to make life better for the people who really want it.

[Conker]

Of course

Sinse you clarified your statement I agree with it, but that was not what you said in your original post

OK glad we agree!

But I think my original wording was correct. The international community regard anything inside the 1967 boundaries as Israel and everything outside as Palestine. Hence why I said no one recognises Israel's right to be in Palestine.  

The problem is Israel has moved over 1/2 million of its own civilian population into regions outside of the 1967 and ran the previous inhabits off the land....and even though International Law and the rest of world states that Israel must withdraw , no real pressure is put on them and they have show zero intention of complying.

[Conker]

The problem is not with the Palestinians. It is with Hamas, who does not want peace.  Many of the Palestinians and Arabs I have talked to over the year wants peace.  But if they say that, Hamas calls them an Israeli Collaborator and kills them. Not good.  They need to get rid of Hamas.  In the West Bank, things are pretty good, but they cannot achieve peace and their own state without the solution in Gaza.

As usual, ignorant and a lie.  Almost all nations recognize Israel, with the exception of the Arab countries, and the countries that need the Arab oil or are their allies. Simple as that.  The occupied territories? You mean Gaza and the West Bank.  Um... I think that for 19 years after 1948, they could of had their own state... but oops... Jordan (who controlled the West Bank), and Egpyt (who controlled Gaza) would and did not let them. You are blaming Israel because Jordan and Egypt said screw Palestine? Funny.

Pre-1967 borders.  Forget it.  A typical argument saying since Israel won the war in 1967, they should give back everything. Not going to happen. Now, a true negotiation might equal various land back in equal to it, and perhaps there can be a two state solution. But we need to wait until Hamas recognizes Israel before anything can happen. Stop blaming Israel. Blame Hamas.  All they need to do is recognize Israel and start negotiating instead of firing missiles and killing their own people.

Guys, get real.  90% of Palestinians want peace and harmony.  It is the 10% of the radical and Hamas that dont let that happen, because they like the control and the fear.  If they lose that, they lose everything.  20% of the people living in Israel are of Arab decent.  You can get along.  But not if your leaders vow to destroy everything instead of trying to make life better for the people who really want it.

I agree it will likely be impossible to return completely to 1967 boundaries but IMO Israel does not really want to negotiate anything, Israel wants to sit in that land until the rest of the world just forgets and recognises it as Israel.

How can you blame Hamas? Israel is the aggressor, Israel is the nation with 60 odd UN resolutions against it for it's building of illegal settlements outside of the recognised boundaries and general abuses of human rights...the Geneva 4th Convention states that any transfer of its own civilian population by the occupying power is illegal. Israel has transferred over half million.

How can you expect Hamas to follow any code of conduct when the aggressor shows a total disregard for international law...

But you are right Israel is not to blame, it's the US, Israel cannot survive without their political and economic backing ...The US could get Israel to comply with international law overnight, just with the simple threat of withdrawing aid/support if they don't...

Unless there is more to the relationship than meets the eye.

[_bruce_]

Ron gives some great points.
The UN is not humanitarian in any way or sense - many countries are far from democratic so their "good will" better be ignored. There is no push for the "better" in politics but for enlarging spheres of influence. It's a competition among enemies, peers, false friends, etc.

[a_ahmed]

I agree it will likely be impossible to return completely to 1967 boundaries but IMO Israel does not really want to negotiate anything, Israel wants to sit in that land until the rest of the world just forgets and recognises it as Israel.

How can you blame Hamas? Israel is the aggressor, Israel is the nation with 60 odd UN resolutions against it for it's building of illegal settlements outside of the recognised boundaries and general abuses of human rights...the Geneva 4th Convention states that any transfer of its own civilian population by the occupying power is illegal. Israel has transferred over half million.

How can you expect Hamas to follow any code of conduct when the aggressor shows a total disregard for international law...

But you are right Israel is not to blame, it's the US, Israel cannot survive without their political and economic backing ...The US could get Israel to comply with international law overnight, just with the simple threat of withdrawing aid/support if they don't...

Unless there is more to the relationship than meets the eye.

Best post in whole thread.

[24KT]

Best post in whole thread.

I  agree. Conker is definitely well versed on the issue.
It's such a refreshing change to see posts from someone who actually has the facts at his disposal, instead of the over regurgitated Zionist lie.

[a_ahmed]

I'm surprised Ron is so staunchly pro-israel, it's almost like listening to IDF/Israeli right wing politician propaganda on rewind.

I know he's Jewish but not every Jew is pro-israel. Jews come in many flavours lol.

Hell I had a friend back in college who I had a crush on, Jewish girl in my class haha... we were cool, and she was actually pro-Palestinian and very well versed on the history and situation. In fact in political and social classes she would back me up.

Had another Jewish friend in college since first year lol by coincidence his name was Ron too... he was OKAY, but maan he didn't know how to speak, he would cuss too much so I tried to keep a distance.. a bit too 'ghetto' lol.. and he definetely didn't know how to talk to girls -_-; every girl we passed by he would be yo babe lets fuck out loud... that was terrible -_- However whenever I spoke about God and tried to persuade him to be better he would listen.. not a bad guy just quite a bit misguided. Kind of wondering how he's turned out and where he is. As far as politics go he just didn't care. Cared more about his car and girls lol..

Then I had a Jewish sales man and his son sell me a piece of shit turbo car... that was a bad experience -_- He knew I race, so I gunned it a bit on the backroads and he was 'worried', and rightly so.. the car was beat before hand... lasted very short with me hahahaha hey Jews come in all flavours

At work I got tooons of Jewish people I'm working with. I come in with my Keffiyah, they know I became Muslim, etc... everyone's good. And when it comes to politics not everyone is pro-US or pro-Israel

This whole idea of being Jewish is being pro-israel is wrong. There are so many Jews who don't want anything to do with Israel. There's some really evil pricks and then there's some really nice people.

However Israel... is an evil regime and yes, not everyone even in Israel approves of what Israel does or has done.

[24KT]

I'm surprised Ron is so staunchly pro-israel, it's almost like listening to IDF/Israeli right wing politician propaganda on rewind.

I'm not surprised at all. Ron is not only a Jew, he is an American Jew. His information for the most part is filtered through years of AIPAC's Zionist agenda.

If he lived in Israel, and was able to see first hand what was taking place, ...or if he perhaps was not subject to the Zionist agenda so prevalent in North America, he might be able to see the situation more objectively.

I know he's Jewish but not every Jew is pro-israel. Jews come in many flavours lol.

There are those who have fought long & hard to get to the truth of what's really taking place over there, but it's not easy, ...especially for North American Jews.

I think if most North American Jews understood the level of dissent in Israel for Israeli state policy towards the Palestinians, they'd fall over from shock.

Hell I had a friend back in college who I had a crush on, Jewish girl in my class haha... we were cool, and she was actually pro-Palestinian and very well versed on the history and situation. In fact in political and social classes she would back me up.

Had another Jewish friend in college since first year lol by coincidence his name was Ron too... he was OKAY, but maan he didn't know how to speak, he would cuss too much so I tried to keep a distance.. a bit too 'ghetto' lol.. and he definetely didn't know how to talk to girls -_-; every girl we passed by he would be yo babe lets fuck out loud... that was terrible -_- However whenever I spoke about God and tried to persuade him to be better he would listen.. not a bad guy just quite a bit misguided. Kind of wondering how he's turned out and where he is. As far as politics go he just didn't care. Cared more about his car and girls lol..

Sounds to me like a typical opening line from 333386. That's the persona he exudes.

[a_ahmed]

333386? I r confuse. You mean the so called 'pick up line' LMAO. Oh boy... you don't know the first of it, epic failure and emberassment for me being his friend   I'm sure he doesn't say that now a days LOL