Author Topic: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection  (Read 4634 times)

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Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« on: October 29, 2006, 09:53:33 PM »
I did not know what to think of this article, but I fig'd those who followed the 2004 Ohio election maching irregularities might take interest. 

The CTers could say this is a pre-emptive statement to get "in front of" any election day disasters- Meaning, if polls completely don't match the winners (if 55% of peole leaving say they voted dem, and the repubs inexplicably win 60% of the vote, as happened in several places in 2004)

The Neocons could say it's just a coincidence.  And they could very much be right.  I don't know much about this one, but wanted to share :)



U.S. Investigates Voting Machines’ Venezuela Ties

TIM GOLDEN / NY Times | October 29 2006

The federal government is investigating the takeover last year of a leading American manufacturer of electronic voting systems by a small software company that has been linked to the leftist Venezuelan government of President Hugo Chávez.

The inquiry is focusing on the Venezuelan owners of the software company, the Smartmatic Corporation, and is trying to determine whether the government in Caracas has any control or influence over the firm’s operations, government officials and others familiar with the investigation said.

The inquiry on the eve of the midterm elections is being conducted by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, or Cfius, the same panel of 12 government agencies that reviewed the abortive attempt by a company in Dubai to take over operations at six American ports earlier this year.

The committee’s formal inquiry into Smartmatic and its subsidiary, Sequoia Voting Systems of Oakland, Calif., was first reported Saturday in The Miami Herald.

Officials of both Smartmatic and the Venezuelan government strongly denied yesterday that President Chávez’s administration, which has been bitterly at odds with Washington, has any role in Smartmatic.

“The government of Venezuela doesn’t have anything to do with the company aside from contracting it for our electoral process,” the Venezuelan ambassador in Washington, Bernardo Alvarez, said last night.

Smartmatic was a little-known firm with no experience in voting technology before it was chosen by the Venezuelan authorities to replace the country’s elections machinery ahead of a contentious referendum that confirmed Mr. Chávez as president in August 2004.

Seven months before that voting contract was awarded, a Venezuelan government financing agency invested more than $200,000 into a smaller technology company, owned by some of the same people as Smartmatic, that joined with Smartmatic as a minor partner in the bid.

In return, the government agency was given a 28 percent stake in the smaller company and a seat on its board, which was occupied by a senior government official who had previously advised Mr. Chávez on elections technology. But Venezuelan officials later insisted that the money was merely a small-business loan and that it was repaid before the referendum.

With a windfall of some $120 million from its first three contracts with Venezuela, Smartmatic then bought the much larger and more established Sequoia Voting Systems, which now has voting equipment installed in 17 states and the District of Columbia.

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/October2006/291006Machines.htm

Al-Gebra

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2006, 10:43:32 PM »
el diablo

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2006, 11:05:53 PM »
Interesting old news... Lou was covering this all daily months ago and he still attacks most voting machines daily.  This voting machine crap has GOT TO GO...

http://mysite.verizon.net/resq4lzq/cvi/id223.html

Just imagine, the possibilities are huge with these fucking machines....  Republican can change elections, Dems could too this way, BUT consider, this also makes it easier for foreign governments to change our elections... Russian hackers, oh there are some of the best hacking in the world there... Iran?  China?  NOT COOL...  THESE FUCKING MACHINES HAVE TO GO... NO SEQUOIA, DO DIEBOLD, FUCK ALL THAT SHIT...

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2006, 11:08:25 PM »
el diablo

It still smells like sulfer!!!  ;D


240 is Back

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2006, 06:08:27 AM »
I cannot understand why 100% of Americans do not want to do back to completely paper votes.

I cannot understand it.  There is such a potential for cheating by both sides and more. 

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2006, 03:14:18 PM »
I cannot understand why 100% of Americans do not want to do back to completely paper votes.

I cannot understand it.  There is such a potential for cheating by both sides and more. 
Enter Rush and Company... Stir in easily molded minds... Let me ask you this 240,... When was the last time you heard on Fox News the coverage of the serious and troublesome side of e-voting?  I mean it's a daily on CNN.  HBO has a special on it... various FSTV programing covers it semi-regular... Democracy Now... Do they have someone on Fox News alterting people to the stealing of our democracy?  In fact I hear the opposite from Fox News listeners...  They'll just say some shit like, "oh if a republican wins he stole it ::) "  At most, I'm guessing fox may have covered the chavez thing.  For people to care they have to know and there are a lot of right wing extremists on the radio and TV who make it out to be a sin for tuning into a show like Democracy Now.

240 is Back

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2006, 03:18:08 PM »
Republicans - the elections could be rigged JUST AS EASILY by democrats! 

Don't you want to ensure every vote is counted?

Dos Equis

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2006, 03:27:01 PM »
I cannot understand why 100% of Americans do not want to do back to completely paper votes.

I cannot understand it.  There is such a potential for cheating by both sides and more. 

Convenience.  Involving more people in the democratic process.  Accuracy.  Easier recounts.  I could probably come up with several more reasons, but I see no reason why voting shouldn't catch up with the times.  Our entire society is becoming more and more paperless.  It's a good thing.  Till an earthquake shuts down your power . . . .

240 is Back

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2006, 03:36:53 PM »
Convenience.  Involving more people in the democratic process.  Accuracy.  Easier recounts.  I could probably come up with several more reasons, but I see no reason why voting shouldn't catch up with the times.  Our entire society is becoming more and more paperless.  It's a good thing.  Till an earthquake shuts down your power . . . .

A princeton kid came in and completely fixed a polling station in about 60 seconds.

They are very vulnerable.  To outsiders and insiders.

hagel... he was behind in pre-voting polls.  He was behind in exit polls.  yet he won twice, easily, then it came out that he was on the board of one of the firm who ran that state's election until he decided to run.  You're very naive if that doesn't smell fishy to you.  no wait, you're a damn SUCKER if that doesn't smell fishy to ya lol...

In Ohio, you had a kid who worked for the repubs, come out and PASS A POLYGRAPH saying he was paid to write software to reverse ohio election results.  Then the detective investigating the case in FL (who promised to break the case open shortly) was found just over state lines (in GA, no autopsy required) with his wrists tied and then slit.  Called a suicide, and claims made that both crime scene cameras alfunctioned.  Then, a good cop leaked it, showed the guy all fucking beat up, bleeding out in a tub in a GA hotel room.

BB, no offense, but you're really a naive guy.  Maybe it feels good to deny the scary shit, but seriously, there's no conspiracy shit here.  It's plainly obvious.  E-voting has been compromised.  Anyone who just says "It's more convenient and easier and threfore is a good thing", in light of these facts, is either very stupid, or very scared to face the truth.  And you don't seem like a stupid man to me, BB.

Dos Equis

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2006, 03:50:00 PM »
A princeton kid came in and completely fixed a polling station in about 60 seconds.

They are very vulnerable.  To outsiders and insiders.

hagel... he was behind in pre-voting polls.  He was behind in exit polls.  yet he won twice, easily, then it came out that he was on the board of one of the firm who ran that state's election until he decided to run.  You're very naive if that doesn't smell fishy to you.  no wait, you're a damn SUCKER if that doesn't smell fishy to ya lol...

In Ohio, you had a kid who worked for the repubs, come out and PASS A POLYGRAPH saying he was paid to write software to reverse ohio election results.  Then the detective investigating the case in FL (who promised to break the case open shortly) was found just over state lines (in GA, no autopsy required) with his wrists tied and then slit.  Called a suicide, and claims made that both crime scene cameras alfunctioned.  Then, a good cop leaked it, showed the guy all fucking beat up, bleeding out in a tub in a GA hotel room.

BB, no offense, but you're really a naive guy.  Maybe it feels good to deny the scary shit, but seriously, there's no conspiracy shit here.  It's plainly obvious.  E-voting has been compromised.  Anyone who just says "It's more convenient and easier and threfore is a good thing", in light of these facts, is either very stupid, or very scared to face the truth.  And you don't seem like a stupid man to me, BB.

240 it is okay if someone disagrees with you.  Really.  You don't have to label them.  You don't have to try and insult them.  You shouldn't feel threatened.  It isn't your way or the highway.  Debate is a good thing.  One of the most profound things I've read is Stephen Covey's chapter talking about seeking first to understand, then to be to understood in his book The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People.  I highly recommend it.       

Now, I wonder if there has ever been any fraud involving paper votes?   

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2006, 03:51:28 PM »
240 it is okay if someone disagrees with you.  Really.  You don't have to label them.   You don't have to try and insult them.  You shouldn't feel threatened.  It isn't your way or the highway.  Debate is a good thing.  One of the most profound things I've read is Stephen Covey's chapter talking about seeking first to understand, then to be to understood in his book The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People.  I highly recommend it.       

Now, I wonder if there has ever been any fraud involving paper votes?   

It's ok if you've earned it ;)

Hedgehog

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2006, 03:53:47 PM »
The voting process in USA needs to be reformed. So those who are behind a change are definitely right in that regard.

But I doubt that e-voting is the way to go.

With paper voting, the reliability is the highest, and re-counts are always possible.

The efficiency can always be bettered, in many European countries the final results are available three-four hours after the voting closes.

Paper voting doesn't have to be difficult, or a complicated counting process.



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Zack
As empty as paradise

Dos Equis

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2006, 03:54:42 PM »
It's ok if you've earned it ;)

Well in that case:  thank you, potty mouth.   :)

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2006, 03:57:52 PM »
Well in that case:  thank you, potty mouth.   :)
Potty Mouth :o  Oh no....  ;D

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2006, 03:58:38 PM »
"DELAND, Fla., Nov. 11 - Something very strange happened on election night to Deborah Tannenbaum, a Democratic Party official in Volusia County. At 10 p.m., she called the county elections department and learned that Al Gore was leading George W. Bush 83,000 votes to 62,000. But when she checked the county's Web site for an update half an hour later, she found a startling development: Gore's count had dropped by 16,000 votes, while an obscure Socialist candidate had picked up 10,000--all because of a single precinct with only 600 voters."

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0310/S00211.htm


Dos Equis

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2006, 04:01:40 PM »
The voting process in USA needs to be reformed. So those who are behind a change are definitely right in that regard.

But I doubt that e-voting is the way to go.

With paper voting, the reliability is the highest, and re-counts are always possible.

The efficiency can always be bettered, in many European countries the final results are available three-four hours after the voting closes.

Paper voting doesn't have to be difficult, or a complicated counting process.



YIP
Zack

We e-voted for the first time in our last election.  I really like it.  

JOHN MATRIX

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2006, 04:03:03 PM »
it doesnt matter what medoum is used, the results can still be manipulated by whoever is in charge just as easily. its like the crooked politicial said in gangs of new york - "the voters dont determine the winner-the vote counters do"

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2006, 04:03:19 PM »
    Analysis Finds E-Voting Machines Vulnerable
    By Andrea Stone
    USA Today

    Monday 26 June 2006

    Washington - Most of the electronic voting machines widely adopted since the disputed 2000 presidential election "pose a real danger to the integrity of national, state and local elections," a report out Tuesday concludes.

    There are more than 120 security threats to the three most commonly purchased electronic voting systems, the study by the Brennan Center for Justice says. For what it calls the most comprehensive review of its kind, the New York City-based non-partisan think tank convened a task force of election officials, computer scientists and security experts to study e-voting vulnerabilities.

    The study, which took more than a year to complete, examined optical scanners and touch-screen machines with and without paper trails. Together, the three systems account for 80% of the voting machines that will be used in this November's election.

    While there have been no documented cases of these voting machines being hacked, Lawrence Norden, who chaired the task force and heads the Brennan Center's voting-technology assessment project, says there have been similar software attacks on computerized gambling slot machines.

    "It is unrealistic to think this isn't something to worry about" in terms of future elections, he says.

    The report comes during primary season amid growing concerns about potential errors and tampering. Lawsuits have been filed in at least six states to block the purchase or use of computerized machines.

    Election officials in California and Pennsylvania recently issued urgent warnings to local polling supervisors about potential software problems in touch-screen voting machines after a test in Utah uncovered vulnerabilities in machines made by Diebold Election Systems.

    North Canton, Ohio-based Diebold did not return calls for comment. The company, a major manufacturer of e-voting machines, said earlier this month that security flaws cited in its machines were theoretical and would be addressed this year.

    The new threat analysis does not address specific machines or companies. Instead, it "confirms the suspicions about electronic voting machines that people may have had from individual reports" of problems, Norden says.

    Among the findings:

Using corrupt software to switch votes from one candidate to another is the easiest way to attack all three systems. A would-be hacker would have to overcome many hurdles to do this, the report says, but none "is insurmountable."

The most vulnerable voting machines use wireless components open to attack by "virtually any member of the public with some knowledge and a personal digital assistant." Only New York, Minnesota and California ban wireless components.

Even electronic systems that use voter-verified paper records are subject to attack unless they are regularly audited.

Most states have not implemented election procedures or countermeasures to detect software attacks.
    "There are plenty of vulnerabilities that can and should be fixed before the November election," says David Jefferson, a Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory computer scientist who served on the task force. "Whether they will or not remains to be seen."

    The report said state election officials could improve voting-machine security if they conduct routine audits comparing voter- verified paper trails to the electronic record and ban wireless components in voting machines.

    "A voting system that is not auditable contains the seeds of destruction for a democracy," says Rep. Rush Holt, D-N.J., a chief sponsor of a bill to improve electronic-voting security.

Dos Equis

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2006, 04:04:48 PM »

While there have been no documented cases of these voting machines being hacked, Lawrence Norden, who chaired the task force and heads the Brennan Center's voting-technology assessment project, says there have been similar software attacks on computerized gambling slot machines.


 :-\

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2006, 04:15:53 PM »
it doesnt matter what medoum is used, the results can still be manipulated by whoever is in charge just as easily. its like the crooked politicial said in gangs of new york - "the voters dont determine the winner-the vote counters do"
See what I mean 240, answers like this... elections could be rigged before, so hell, why not make it easier for those rigging the election...  We can go to the moon but here on planet earth, we're more interested in making a voting system that leaves us comfortably numb than one that's fool proof ::) WTF??? What are our guys fighting for again?  Yea, I'll submitt that their deaths are in vain if we are willing to just say fuck it to a system that pisses all over the most valuable thing we have in our democracy--our vote.  The republicans are willing to turn a blind eye because they are the recent beneficiaries of the system... But again, this is foolish... This system is open for manipulation by other government in a snap... Come on, this is a no brainer...  e-voting... bad.... Paper...Goood...  Just because there was a fucked paper system in florida doesn't mean they were all fucked... Here in Colorado, I enjoyed a very simple system that wouldn't have had anyone fucking with chads in a recount... What did we do this year?  Got rid of a system everyone was happy with in favor of e-voting machines... A system that at least half the population is NOT happy with... Brilliant ::)

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2006, 04:17:07 PM »
:-\
I hope that's not all you read ::)  Study up and get a more complete picture please...

Hugo Chavez

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2006, 04:18:06 PM »

Dos Equis

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2006, 04:25:28 PM »
I hope that's not all you read ::)  Study up and get a more complete picture please...

I read the whole thing.  It sounds like some people are concerned about potential, not actual, fraud.  Legitimate concern.  Does that mean we don't take steps to get more people involved in the process and make things easier for long-time, consistent voters (like me)?  No.  Identify the potential problems and come up with a solution. 

Oh, and don't pretend like we haven't had voter fraud since the process began.  My dad volunteered at the polls for decades.  He told me lots of stories.  I remember one involving L.A. mayor Tom Bradley (a black guy) running for governor against Deukmejian (a white guy).  The "race card" was being played on both sides all over the place.  They were wheeling people out of nursing homes to the polls.  Bradley lost a close race.  I don't know if voter fraud determined the outcome, but it certainly played a role.   

240 is Back

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Re: Weird voting machine US/Venez connection
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2006, 04:33:10 PM »
I don't understand this.  There is an option which allows for e-voting, with a paper backup so that recounts are possible. 

How can anyone be against this?  You have ease of voting, the counting is instant... but a paper trail remains.  This means, if exit polls say that Joe Smith has 60% of the popular vote, then suddenly the other guy wins with 60% of the vote, a recount can be done in days using the paper trail.

Why would anyone not like this option?