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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: boonstack on August 13, 2008, 06:23:31 PM
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with all the insulin day in and day out and just utter abuse over the years of their natural system--- how can they even be walking? Not isolating these 2 necessarily but just using as an example. I dont have a thorough chemistry background and im sure their "coaches" know what they are doing, but this never seems to get asked much in bb'ing. But it seems like a very real possibility for it to occur?
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Cause it's not Jeezus' plan.....duh!
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Why would they?
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That insulin shit is so fucking dangerous I don't know how they don't drop dead, and I have a minor in chemistry
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Jay Cutler is a well known diabetic
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Why would they?
yeaaa..... apparently your not "getting" it... easy tiger
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yeaaa..... apparently your not "getting" it... easy tiger
OK fluffy, >:( taking slin does not make you a diabetic.
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Type 2 diabetes (adult onset), which is what you are referring to will almost never occur in weightlifters.
Type 2 diabetes occurs almost exclusivley is people that do not exercise (resistance training).
When people don't lift weights, their muscles become resistant to the effects of their own insulin.
Their bodies still produce plenty of insulin, but the insulin is is unable to transport the glucose into the muscle cells.
It is a fallacy that the type-2 diabetic doesn't produce insulin...they do.
A bodybuilder may only use 15 IU's after they train.
A type 2 diabetic may do between 40-80 IU's every day of injectable insulin.
So the scale is much less.
The bottom line is that BB's do suffer from heart attacks & high cholesterol.
They also suffer from narrowing of the arteries.
A much smaller percentage suffer from high blood pressure, because the dilating effects of exercise
keep the blood pressure down.
But BB's practically NEVER suffer from type-2 diabetes because their muscles are very SENSITIVE to insulin, as opposed to being RESISTANT to insulin. When a person's (BB's) muscles are SENSITIVE to insulin, from all the weightlifting, the insulin (whether produced naturally in the pancreas, or injected) works very efficiently, and there are no problems.
It is "urban legend" that Bodybuilders become diabetic. It almost NEVER happens.
Their muscles are far TOO SENSITIVE to insulin for that to happen.
People falsely think that by using insulin, you will "Shut Down" your pancreas.
That IS NOT how people become diabetic.
People become Type-2 diabetic due to their muscles becoming RESISTANT to insulin.
It's that simple.
I have never met a type 2 diabetic that lifts weights.
Conversely, every type-2 diabetic I have ever met, and I have met
literally thousands, does not lift weights.
DISGUSTED is 100% correct by asking "Why would it?"
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OK fluffy, >:( taking slin does not make you a diabetic.
no, but it allows all necessary factors to come into play if u did not take slin in the first place.
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no, but it allows all necessary factors to come into play if u did not take slin in the first place.
How so. ???
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3123545.stm
read that disg
basically as some long term test users may have to use test the rest of life after bb'ing career (as their natural production stops at a point after its being introduced to system by external means)-- u could also say ur body will stop producing own natural hormones after abusing slin for so long
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Type 2 diabetes (adult onset), which is what you are referring to will almost never occur in weightlifters.
Type 2 diabetes occurs almost exclusivley is people that do not exercise (resistance training).
When people don't lift weights, their muscles become resistant to the effects of their own insulin.
Their bodies still produce plenty of insulin, but the insulin is is unable to transport the glucose into the muscle cells.
It is a fallacy that the type-2 diabetic doesn't produce insulin...they do.
A bodybuilder may only use 15 IU's after they train.
A type 2 diabetic may do between 40-80 IU's every day of injectable insulin.
So the scale is much less.
The bottom line is that BB's do suffer from heart attacks & high cholesterol.
They also suffer from narrowing of the arteries.
A much smaller percentage suffer from high blood pressure, because the dilating effects of exercise
keep the blood pressure down.
But BB's practically NEVER suffer from type-2 diabetes because their muscles are very SENSITIVE to insulin, as opposed to being RESISTANT to insulin. When a person's (BB's) muscles are SENSITIVE to insulin, from all the weightlifting, the insulin (whether produced naturally in the pancreas, or injected) works very efficiently, and there are no problems.
It is "urban legend" that Bodybuilders become diabetic. It almost NEVER happens.
Their muscles are far TOO SENSITIVE to insulin for that to happen.
People falsely think that by using insulin, you will "Shut Down" your pancreas.
That IS NOT how people become diabetic.
People become Type-2 diabetic due to their muscles becoming RESISTANT to insulin.
It's that simple.
I have never met a type 2 diabetic that lifts weights.
Conversely, every type-2 diabetic I have ever met, and I have met
literally thousands, does not lift weights.
DISGUSTED is 100% correct by asking "Why would it?"
That would be Type I ;)
And i'm sure there are retired pros that are on insulin, test, and thyroid therapy...just to be "normal"
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3123545.stm
read that disg
basically as some long term test users may have to use test the rest of life after bb'ing career (as their natural production stops at a point after its being introduced to system by external means)-- u could also say ur body will stop producing own natural hormones after abusing slin for so long
BOON-You are wrong. Your article means nothing. So a guy took too much insuling and went hypoglycemic.
That has nothing to do with becoming a diabetic.
Doctors are missing the boat almost entirely about type-2 diabetes, constantly blaming "Genetics".
Resistance training will cure type 2 diabetes almost every time.
I notice there are no names of BB's in your article. There is simply a fear expressed.
Read what I wrote. I spent alot of time trying to explain to you, so you would know.
But you have arrived at your conclusion without having any knowledge of how insulin
behaves in the body. You are buying into an "Urban Legend", and you are repeating something
that you have heard others repeat-with no real life examples.
Not hating on you, but you need to have a better understanding of what causes type-2 diabetes.
DISGUSTED is correct. The pancreas do not "Shut Down" when an athlete uses insulin.
The testicles will shut down with testosterone use.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3123545.stm
read that disg
basically as some long term test users may have to use test the rest of life after bb'ing career (as their natural production stops at a point after its being introduced to system by external means)-- u could also say ur body will stop producing own natural hormones after abusing slin for so long
Nope, that is a very bad analogy. Insulin is produced at specific times during the day, many times. If you take one shot of slin say with meal 1 it doesn't mean that your pancrease will not produce any for meal 2 if you happen not to shoot any. Many guys shoot slin for weeks or months then quit suddenly with no problems and do this for many years. They do not need to do any type of PCT to get their pancrease working again. I do not know one person who has ever become diabetic from using slin. Now, this does not mean that I condone it's use either.
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That would be Type I ;)
And i'm sure there are retired pros that are on insulin, test, and thyroid therapy...just to be "normal"
What would be type 1 ?
What are you referring to ?
Please tell me.
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Nope, that is a very bad analogy. Insulin is produced at specific times during the day, many times. If you take one shot of slin say with meal 1 it doesn't mean that your pancrease will not produce any for meal 2 if you happen not to shoot any. Many guys shoot slin for weeks or months then quit suddenly with no problems and do this for many years. They do not need to do any type of PCT to get their pancrease working again. I do not know one person who has ever become diabetic from using slin. Now, this does not mean that I condone it's use either.
main reasons why u would'nt.......
thanks
monstercalves :)
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What would be type 1 ?
What are you referring to ?
Please tell me.
IF a bodybuilder were to develop diabetes, it would be due to the shut down of the body's production ie Type I....NOT due to insulin resistance, Type II ;)
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look, it just appears u are trying to rip apart the most minute/trivial factors coming into play and trying SO HARD to defend that "ITS IMPOSSIBLE FOR DIABETES TO OCCUR".... why cant it just be "Look, if u arent careful, SURE ITS A POSSIBILITY you can develop them"?
you may not necessarily have clogged arteries from eating 2 lbs of bacon everyday, but it sure isnt helping any. Basically, even if its 1/100 odds of getting it, it is POSSIBLE.
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IF a bodybuilder were to develop diabetes, it would be due to the shut down of the body's production ie Type I....NOT due to insulin resistance, Type II ;)
If, but they won't. ;)
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main reasons why u would'nt.......
thanks
monstercalves :)
Mainly cause I really don't care for the "look" it gives BBers.
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http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=462122
good article for sensitivity/resistance
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Mainly cause I really don't care for the "look" it gives BBers.
thanks man....
BTW i found out who u are....well roughly.... in relation to king i mean...
remember i asked who u were because u were getting all the "guess who" threads instantly?
what look ?..... bloated?watery? ???????????
thanks
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If, but they won't. ;)
In medicine...you can never say never, grasshoppa ;D
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thanks man....
BTW i found out who u are....well roughly.... in relation to king i mean...
remember i asked who u were because u were getting all the "guess who" threads instantly?
what look ?..... bloated?watery? ???????????
thanks
I like this look personally, strictly in a non fruity way of course. ;D
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IF a bodybuilder were to develop diabetes, it would be due to the shut down of the body's production ie Type I....NOT due to insulin resistance, Type II ;)
Type 1 diabetes occurs when the body's immune system kills off the beta cells in the pancreas.
The immune system attacks its own body. This is referred to as juvenile onset, and occurs early in life.
We are not talking about the immune system killing off its own beta cells.
The pancreas do NOT shut down in response with insuling use.
The testicles do shut down with Testosterone.
You have just proved that you don't know shit about this subject.
This is a complete waste of time discussing any further with you guys.
I am going to bed, this is a joke discussing this with you jag-offs. :)
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In medicine...you can never say never, grasshoppa ;D
You're may be right. Just remember though that when someone drinks a 100 grams of sugar it is much easier on the body to take slin than to force your pancrease to produce an unnatural amount of insulin. This is why most people becomes type 2 in the first place. Too many damn carbs thru out their lives.
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Type 1 diabetes occurs when the body's immune system kills off the beta cells in the pancreas.
The immune system attacks its own body. This is referred to as juvenile onset, and occurs early in life.We are not talking about the immune system killing off its own beta cells.
The pancreas do NOT shut down in response with insuling use.
The testicles do shut down with Testosterone.
You have just proved that you don't know shit about this subject.
This is a complete waste of time discussing any further with you guys.
I am going to bed, this is a joke discussing this with you jag-offs. :)
You've got to be kidding me...it's not even called "juvenile diabetes" anymore...it hasn't been called that for over ten years! :D
So, not only should you put the high school physio book down....BUT GO BUY AN UPDATED ONE!!!! ;D
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I like this look personally, strictly in a non fruity way of course. ;D
thats some deep seperation goin on there.... who is that guy.... hes achieved amazing condition
and generally what look does slin give u?
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JB — Well, typically I've seen tremendous increases in insulin sensitivity with 3-4 intense weight training sessions per week, lasting 1 hour per session
Both aerobic and resistance training greatly increase insulin sensitivity through some different and some similar mechanisms
Insulin sensitivity is therefore very good. In this case, your cells — especially the muscle cells — respond very well to small levels of insulin. Therefore, they need very little insulin stimulation to get into an anabolic state. So high insulin sensitivity at the muscle level is very desirable.
Simply put, insulin resistance is bad. If you're insulin resistant, your cells — especially the muscle cells — don't respond to the anabolic effects of normal levels of insulin, i.e. they resist insulin's effects. If this is the case, the body then releases massive amounts of insulin to promote nutrient storage in the resistant cells. Remember, though, that chronic high levels of insulin in the blood are very bad and can cause type 2 diabetes.
The article in Testosterone Nation echoes exactly what I explained.
I copied & pasted the pertinent sections.
The BB will ONLY use 10-15 IU after training, this will not lead to
problems of insulin resistance-because the BB is ULTRA-sensitive to insulin.
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thats some deep seperation goin on there.... who is that guy.... hes achieved amazing condition
and generally what look does slin give u?
Pierre Vandensteen. I believe that slin promotes marblization of fat witin the muscle itself, especially in certain areas that may be more receptive than others. It is common for us to see striations in the glutes today, but gone are the deep shoulder, upper back and chest striations of years ago.
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You've got to be kidding me...it's not even called "juvenile diabetes" anymore...it hasn't been called that for over ten years! :D
So, not only should you put the high school physio book down....BUT GO BUY AN UPDATED ONE!!!! ;D
It happens early in the persons life, usually before the age of 25.
No matter what you insist on calling it, Type 1 diabetics are due to the reasons I stated,
or an injury/infection to the pancreas. NOT INSULIN USE.
Name one BB (other than possible Don Long)
that has killed off his pancreas you fucking idiot.
You can't....
So the state your talking about is a Type 1-adult onset, which you have
no examples, because it doesnt exist.
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It happens early in the persons life, usually before the age of 25.
No matter what you insist on calling it, Type 1 diabetics are due to the reasons I stated,
or an injury/infection to the pancreas. NOT INSULIN USE.
Name one BB (other than possible Don Long)
that has killed off his pancreas you fucking idiot.
You can't....
So the state your talking about is a Type 1-adult onset, which you have
no examples, because it doesnt exist.
LMAO!!! ;D
I thought you were going to bed?
:-*
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Pierre Vandensteen. I believe that slin promotes marblization of fat witin the muscle itself, especially in certain areas that may be more receptive than others. It is common for us to see striations in the glutes today, but gone are the deep shoulder, upper back and chest striations of years ago.
i see exactly what u mean.....
a fuckin wealth of knowledge ....thanks
do u remember pumping iron well?
when big mike katz does a most muscular in the mirror with waller b4 they go onstage.... katz has some serious deeply cut shoulders....
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LMAO!!! ;D
I thought you were going to bed?
:-*
You couldn't name one... Could You smart ass?
NO !!
LMAO
Its amazing how you can't respond when you are wrong.
You switch the subject.
FYI -The term "juvenile onset" is still valid.
The term TYPE-1 is a collectively simpler way to encompass
"Childhood onset"
"Juvenile onset"
"Insulin dependent"
This is done for the sake of brevity. The term juvenile onset is 100%
valid, and unfortunately, all too real.
Now were you gonna name a BB that triggered himself into
becoming a TYPE-1, thru insulin use ?
Other than Tim Belknap, who was diagnosed as a juvenile,
BECAUSE HIS immune system killed off his beta cells.
Quick BRUTAL:, get on google and search the world to find someone,
If you cant name one off the top of your head, as we have just
all witnessed that you cant, youre an idiot.
Now I am going to bed
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You couldn't name one... Could You smart ass?
NO !!
LMAO
Its amazing how you can't respond when you are wrong.
You switch the subject.
FYI -The term "juvenile onset" is still valid.
The term TYPE-1 is a collectively simpler way to encompass
"Childhood onset"
"Juvenile onset"
"Insulin dependent"
This is done for the sake of brevity. The term juvenile onset is 100%
valid, and unfortunately, all too real.
Now were you gonna name a BB that triggered himself into
becoming a TYPE-1, thru insulin use ?
Other than Tim Belknap, who was diagnosed as a juvenile,
BECAUSE HIS immune system killed off his beta cells.
Quick BRUTAL:, get on google and search the world to find someone,
If you cant name one off the top of your head, as we have just
all witnessed that you cant, youre an idiot.
Now I am going to bed
I think we've found our new CANDIZZLE ;D
Glad to have you on board toshie ;)
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i see exactly what u mean.....
a fuckin wealth of knowledge ....thanks
do u remember pumping iron well?
when big mike katz does a most muscular in the mirror with waller b4 they go onstage.... katz has some serious deeply cut shoulders....
Yes I remember and Mike was a pretty big guy. You don't see that anymore which is a shame. I got the anniversary DVD, do you remember Arnold being interviewed as he walked thru I think was a park? Wasn't in the original Pumping Iron. He had on shorts and a t shirt and all I could think was WTF!!! He looked unreal walkin around like that.
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hello,
thanks alot johnnytosh for the great info. it was really very much interested for me and i really appreciate your knowldge and the information u gave about the insulin hormon and the explainatrion aobut type 1 and type 2 . You highlight something in my mind thats why i post here to thank u . i use to read here in getbig more than posting.
regards,
The muscular
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OK fluffy, >:( taking slin does not make you a diabetic.
Taking GH does.
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Taking GH does.
Too much for long periods of time can indeed decrease insulin sensitivity. However, this can easily be countered by taking exogenous slin as well as glucophage.
Since most of the pros who take large amounts of GH are also doing Slin, none of them are in danger of it really.
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with all the insulin day in and day out and just utter abuse over the years of their natural system--- how can they even be walking? Not isolating these 2 necessarily but just using as an example. I dont have a thorough chemistry background and im sure their "coaches" know what they are doing, but this never seems to get asked much in bb'ing. But it seems like a very real possibility for it to occur?
Because they have brains. They are not gonna destroy their health, they know exactly what they are doing.
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Too much for long periods of time can indeed decrease insulin sensitivity. However, this can easily be countered by taking exogenous slin as well as glucophage.
Since most of the pros who take large amounts of GH are also doing Slin, none of them are in danger of it really.
Unfortunately I dont remember much about the subject, I just remember quite a few research articles that found GH effects Insulin absorption in the body.
So I'll take your word on this :)
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many top BB take their insu with all their 6-7 meals a day and somtimes long acting insu
i think it s actually possible that the body stops his own insu production if this regimen is applied
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Because they have brains. They are not gonna destroy their health, they know exactly what they are doing.
Yes, Jays head is the size of a watermelon and has a waist thicker than an oak tree, and Ronnie can barely string a sentence together.
But, they are also are med school graduates. I love it. ::) ::) ::)
Do you actually think for a second the damage they have done to their bodies is "minor" in the long run? Or they are just going to return to normal when they end their vicious cycles? The whole "Well, other bodybuilders did it and they are fine!" analogy does not work here. Im sure their are not many human beings on the planet that take more than Jay or Ronnie do/did... so they are pushing the limits. IF small cycles can do it, so can theirs.
Oh i forgot to say that the above paragraph was not solely on the subject of insulin. It just combined with all the other chemicals they include in their cycles. Funny the word "chemicals" gives a whole different meaning than saying "steroids"
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I like this look personally, strictly in a non fruity way of course. ;D
Are you saying the crispness will be gone if insulin is used?
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hello,
thanks alot johnnytosh for the great info. it was really very much interested for me and i really appreciate your knowldge and the information u gave about the insulin hormon and the explainatrion aobut type 1 and type 2 . You highlight something in my mind thats why i post here to thank u . i use to read here in getbig more than posting.
regards,
The muscular
Thanks Bro. I appreciate that. Thats what makes it worthwhile. If 1 person walks away with a single golden nugget of knowledge, then it was worth the time.
The MOST IMPORTANT concept to take away from this thread is as follows:
-"The dramatic increase in insulin sensitivty (good thing), due to resistance training, TRUMPS/BLOWS AWAY/OUTWEIGHS/DOMINATES any potential or theoretical negative side effect associated with insulin use"
The only real negative would be to inject too much insulin, and trigger a hypoglycemic reaction.
That, although potentially fatal, has nothing to do with beiong diabetic. I appreciate the kind words.
Thank You
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Too much for long periods of time can indeed decrease insulin sensitivity. However, this can easily be countered by taking exogenous slin as well as glucophage.
Since most of the pros who take large amounts of GH are also doing Slin, none of them are in danger of it really.
Taking exogenous slin may save your pancreas but wont do anything for sensitivity, except perhaps make it worse.
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Remember, though, that chronic high levels of insulin in the blood are very bad and can cause type 2 diabetes.
The BB will ONLY use 10-15 IU after training, this will not lead to
problems of insulin resistance-because the BB is ULTRA-sensitive to insulin.
Many of the drugs bodybuilders use, including steroids, can cause insulin resistance and therefore increase insulin levels. Add a high calorie diet and a bodybuilder will have high insulin levels round the clock.
So I don't know about all of the pros being "ultra-sensitive"