Chiropractors more harm than good?

[Slik]

Why does every does every chiropractic discussion involve the medical field?  The medical field is awesome. Sure u guys r killing people like its going out of style but u r also saving millions more than that.  When people put their lives in your hands and they r coming to u with serious problems u are going to have your millions of cases of thankless miracles but your also going to have your collateral damage. I see that. And I applaud your profession. I'm very close and work very closely with a bunch of mds. Ur an uninformed insecure idiot if in this day and age as a practicing md u do not recognize the merits of chiropractic and u r prolly offending many of your patients without knowing it when u put is down. Because they r prolly not telling u they come to us. GDAM. What was my point?  Jet Lag. Oh yeah. Why when chiropractic is brought up why does it always lead to an md vs Chiro topic?  Chiropractic stands on its own. How many times does a medical discussion lead to talking about Chiro?  Debating the merits of Chiro has little to do with the medical profession. Its kinda like if someone asks u how you like your new dodge ram someone else chimes in and compares it to a hot air balloon ride. Both forms of transportation sure but used for completely different purposes.
We all know the medical field is an option.  Assuming the OP does too. He didnt ask Chiro vs MD. He asked what we think of Chiro. But I do understand.  Like asking someone of they like oranges and instead of answering yes or no and giving a reason why they just say they like apples.
Ill
End by saying there r great chiros n weird ones just like any profession. No more no less than other professions. Find a good one usually by word of mouth. We r trained to recognize what we can and cannot treat and the best ones world closely w mds and will refer out if needed. But we also not only adjust. If u have questions about how to lead a healthier life we will answer those questions as best we know as well.
That's all for now. Typing on a iPhone sux

[Slik]

Hey here's a cool fact. Did u all know that jack lalane was a Chiro n he kept it hidden because he was afraid he would be blacklisted by Hollywood back then. He only came out of the closet late in life.

[Big Chiro Flex]

Very well said. The best DCs I know have very close relationships and friendships with MDs and have a healthy mutual respect that shows by the consistent referral rates between docs. Exactly how it should be.

Franco Columbo is a DC too  

[ether]

Here's the thing: I'm so confident and secure with my profession's role in healthcare that I dont feel obligated to crusade against my fellow colleagues. I have the utmost respect for all doctors. I will never bash allopathic practitioners simply for their title, whether I disagree with some of their methods or not.

I could also pull up pub med systematic reviews countering your review, as well as about a thousand that show some of the wonderful iatrogenic deaths caused by your profession. But I won't...it would be a waste of time.

Your ability to go on the defensive so quickly and take things so personally lead me to believe you aren't very confident in what you do?

Quite the contrary
I'm on call all week, in between cases, bored as fucc

I love messing with "Allied health practitioners"

The only chiropractor I ever knew tried to get into medical school 4 years running, when all else failed law school and dentistry turned him down, he had no choice but to resort to your profession.

Have a great day Dr. Steve.

Oh, and by the way, not only did he get in on his first try he graduated at the top of the class!

[Slik]

Something else. In this day and age of frivolous lawsuits and sky rocketing malpractice insurance premiums paid by docs. Do u know that malpractice insurance for chiros is less per year than many people's car insurance?  I pay about 12 dollars a year.  U know why?  Cuz the chance of u being hurt by a chiropractor is infinitesimal. Insurance companies have done the research and they they have years of experience covering docs. So u can submit any bulshit studies saying were killing and stroking people out when the truth is if it were the case the first people that would acknowledge would be the insurance carriers. They know those lies about us murdering and permanently damaging our patients is not true.

I was talking with a highly successful attorney who says he never accepts clients who claim guys were hurt by chiros. He said there is no money in it. Because nine times out of ten the case is thrown out or the jury finds the Chiro didn't hurt them.

12 hundred dollars a year lol. Not 12!

[ether]

Something else. In this day and age of frivolous lawsuits and sky rocketing malpractice insurance premiums paid by docs. Do u know that malpractice insurance for chiros is less per year than many people's car insurance?  I pay about 12 dollars a year.  U know why?  Cuz the chance of u being hurt by a chiropractor is infinitesimal. Insurance companies have done the research and they they have years of experience covering docs. So u can submit any bulshit studies saying were killing and stroking people out when the truth is if it were the case the first people that would acknowledge would be the insurance carriers. They know those lies about us murdering and permanently damaging our patients is not true.

I was talking with a highly successful attorney who says he never accepts clients who claim guys were hurt by chiros. He said there is no money in it. Because nine times out of ten the case is thrown out or the jury finds the Chiro didn't hurt them.

12 hundred dollars a year lol. Not 12!

When you massage someone's foot versus taking out an organ, no shit there are more mistakes!

[Slik]

Quite the contrary
I'm on call all week, in between cases, bored as fucc

I love messing with "Allied health practitioners"

The only chiropractor I ever knew tried to get into medical school 4 years running, when all else failed law school and dentistry turned him down, he had no choice but to resort to your profession.

Have a great day Dr. Steve.

Oh, and by the way, not only did he get in on his first try he graduated at the top of the class!

sounds like a true getbigger

[Slik]

When you massage someone's foot versus taking out an organ, no shit there are more mistakes!

wait weren't u saying we were killing everyone via cervical adjustments?  Get ur argument straight dumbass.

[OneMoreRep]

Quite the contrary
I'm on call all week, in between cases, bored as fucc

I love messing with "Allied health practitioners"

What's your take on the strong influx of both Nurse practitioners and Physician Assistants by way of the Affordable care act?

Do you find that their (PA & NP) clinical skillsets are strong enough to hang with the big boys of medicine?

"1"

[chaos]

Wtf? How many chiroquackers are on getbig

[Slik]

Haha. I'm starting to get a clearer picture of u. Taking out ur organ while ur bored at work. Wut an idiot.

[SF1900]

I am sorry, but if I am ever diagnosed with cancer, I am going to an oncologist, not a chiropractor or anything else.

I have no problems with adjunct forms of treatment, but I will take medically prescribed treatment by an oncologist over anything else.

[ether]

What's your take on the strong influx of both Nurse practitioners and Physician Assistants by way of the Affordable care act?

Do you find that their (PA & NP) clinical skillsets are strong enough to hang with the big boys of medicine?

"1"

I think they are a very good thing
Surgeons and other doctors do the little things very badly and many of these tasks; rounding on patients, checking bloodwork, drug interactions etc can be done better by them

They are very well trained and for the most part very eager to learn

Chiros have no clue what real medicine is or to take care of an actual sick patient, I would wager most would shit their pants if they ever saw a really sick cancer patient but are the first to point their fingers when treatments fail

Haha. I'm starting to get a clearer picture of u. Taking out ur organ while ur bored at work. Wut an idiot.

Call cases for an experienced physician and very boring

Kind of like waxing a back instead of cracking it? Sorry couldn't think of a more suitable comparison

[Big Chiro Flex]

I am sorry, but if I am ever diagnosed with cancer, I am going to an oncologist, not a chiropractor or anything else.

I have no problems with adjunct forms of treatment, but I will take medically prescribed treatment by an oncologist over anything else.

Chiropractors don't treat cancer directly.

Hope this helps.  

[Big Chiro Flex]

I think they are a very good thing
Surgeons and other doctors do the little things very badly and many of these tasks; rounding on patients, checking bloodwork, drug interactions etc can be done better by them

They are very well trained and for the most part very eager to learn

Chiros have no clue what real medicine is or to take care of an actual sick patient, I would wager most would shit their pants if they ever saw a really sick cancer patient but are the first to point their fingers when treatments fail
Call cases for an experienced physician and very boring

Kind of like waxing a back instead of cracking it? Sorry couldn't think of a more suitable comparison

Tell us...what was the name of the chiropractic student who slept with your girlfriend while you were in med school. Tell us who hurt you.

[SF1900]

Chiropractors don't treat cancer directly.

Hope this helps.  

I know that. I was just saying that in terms of medical diagnoses, cancer or anything else, I would choose a medical doctor first, then implement other forms of treatment as needed.

[OneMoreRep]

I think they are a very good thing
Surgeons and other doctors do the little things very badly and many of these tasks; rounding on patients, checking bloodwork, drug interactions etc can be done better by them

They are very well trained and for the most part very eager to learn

My sister-in-law is a Cardiac Nurse Practitioner and she seems to love what she does. She tells me that the Cardiologists in her Hospital are very fond of her presence and work provided.

I am trying to push my nephew (presently doing undergrad) to possibly consider a career as either a Physician's Assistant or Nurse Practitioner. I think those two groups (based on my limited interactions with them), seem to have a solid grasp of internal medicine/primary medicine and appear to be easily trainable for much more specialized disciplines (Cardiac, pulmonary, GI etc.).  Ideally, he would go to Med School, but the kid lacks the stamina (I think) to stay put for more than 8 years. I think those other tacks (pa, np) take about 6-7 years to obtain their degrees (undergrad + grad), so it might work for him if he can concentrate long enough.

Chiros have no clue what real medicine is or to take care of an actual sick patient, I would wager most would shit their pants if they ever saw a really sick cancer patient but are the first to point their fingers when treatments fail

My take on Chiropractors is that they are sort of like the lite-version of orthopedists, but with no surgical or prescriptive rights/privileges. Generally speaking, I see them similar to that of optometrists in comparison to ophthalmologists (The optometrist being able to perform the basic examinations that the ophthalmologist can, but with the restriction of not being able to perform surgery/invasive procedures or prescribe controlled substances).

I know that an orthopedic surgeon gets well over 14-15 years of training (4 yrs undergrad + 4 years of med school + 5 years of ortho residency + 1-2 years of fellowship in their designated area of specialty like knee, hips or spine etc.) and while the chiropractor might have a little less training than that, I am sure they can provide patients with many good alternatives for their bone, muscle and joint injuries.

I also don't think that any patient would ever go to a chiropractor for any medical issue that isn't directly related to pathological presentation involving bones, joints, ligaments, tendons and/or muscles. I mean, the chiros on board can correct me if I am wrong, but why would a patient go to a chiro for an internal medicine, surgical, cardiac, GI, pulmonary, neurological or even dermatological issue? I think the average consumer is smart enough to differentiate what medical specialists are there for and what Chiropractors can offer to them, as possibly an alternative to orthopedic surgery.

If I am wrong in my assumption that Chiro's only provide care towards injuries or disorders of the skeletal system and associated muscles, joints, and ligaments, please let me know gentlemen. I am not taking sides, just providing my basic view here.

"1"

[SF1900]

Where does Vince Goodrum fit into the mix?

Perhaps he and his website fall between Neurosurgeon and orthopedic surgeon.

[ether]

My sister-in-law is a Cardiac Nurse Practitioner and she seems to love what she does. She tells me that the Cardiologists in her Hospital are very fond of her presence and work provided.

I am trying to push my nephew (presently doing undergrad) to possibly consider a career as either a Physician's Assistant or Nurse Practitioner. I think those two groups (based on my limited interactions with them), seem to have a solid grasp of internal medicine/primary medicine and appear to be easily trainable for much more specialized disciplines (Cardiac, pulmonary, GI etc.).  Ideally, he would go to Med School, but the kid lacks the stamina (I think) to stay put for more than 8 years. I think those other tacks (pa, np) take about 6-7 years to obtain their degrees (undergrad + grad), so it might work for him if he can concentrate long enough.

My take on Chiropractors is that they are sort of like the lite-version of orthopedists, but with no surgical or prescriptive rights/privileges. Generally speaking, I see them similar to that of optometrists in comparison to ophthalmologists (The optometrist being able to perform the basic examinations that the ophthalmologist can, but with the restriction of not being able to perform surgery/invasive procedures or prescribe controlled substances).

I know that an orthopedic surgeon gets well over 14-15 years of training (4 yrs undergrad + 4 years of med school + 5 years of ortho residency + 1-2 years of fellowship in their designated area of specialty like knee, hips or spine etc.) and while the chiropractor might have a little less training than that, I am sure they can provide patients with many good alternatives for their bone, muscle and joint injuries.

I also don't think that any patient would ever go to a chiropractor for any medical issue that isn't directly related to pathological presentation involving bones, joints, ligaments, tendons and/or muscles. I mean, the chiros on board can correct me if I am wrong, but why would a patient go to a chiro for an internal medicine, surgical, cardiac, GI, pulmonary, neurological or even dermatological issue? I think the average consumer is smart enough to differentiate what medical specialists are there for and what Chiropractors can offer to them, as possibly an alternative to orthopedic surgery.

If I am wrong in my assumption that Chiro's only provide care towards injuries or disorders of the skeletal system and associated muscles, joints, and ligaments, please let me know gentlemen. I am not taking sides, just providing my basic view here.

"1"

Excellent post

I work w PAs and NPs and LOVE them
They take care of all the things I hate doing and quite frankly do them better than I ever would

You wouldnt believe the crap patients tell me their herbalist, chiro, acupuncturist told them about cancer care.

I agree Chiros have their role, the good ones know this and the bad ones don't and try to meddle into serious medical issues with devastating consequences

[Slik]

I know that. I was just saying that in terms of medical diagnoses, cancer or anything else, I would choose a medical doctor first, then implement other forms of treatment as needed.

well yeah that's kind of the norm for most people.  And chiros don't treat cancer. A least none that I know of.  I have had hundreds of patients with cancer over the years however.

[SF1900]

well yeah that's kind of the norm for most people.  And chiros don't treat cancer. A least none that I know of.  I have had hundreds of patients with cancer over the years however.

 

Yes, I know they don't. My example was a hyperbole.

You would be surprised what some people do instead of seeking medical care. 

[Slik]

My sister-in-law is a Cardiac Nurse Practitioner and she seems to love what she does. She tells me that the Cardiologists in her Hospital are very fond of her presence and work provided.

I am trying to push my nephew (presently doing undergrad) to possibly consider a career as either a Physician's Assistant or Nurse Practitioner. I think those two groups (based on my limited interactions with them), seem to have a solid grasp of internal medicine/primary medicine and appear to be easily trainable for much more specialized disciplines (Cardiac, pulmonary, GI etc.).  Ideally, he would go to Med School, but the kid lacks the stamina (I think) to stay put for more than 8 years. I think those other tacks (pa, np) take about 6-7 years to obtain their degrees (undergrad + grad), so it might work for him if he can concentrate long enough.

My take on Chiropractors is that they are sort of like the lite-version of orthopedists, but with no surgical or prescriptive rights/privileges. Generally speaking, I see them similar to that of optometrists in comparison to ophthalmologists (The optometrist being able to perform the basic examinations that the ophthalmologist can, but with the restriction of not being able to perform surgery/invasive procedures or prescribe controlled substances).

I know that an orthopedic surgeon gets well over 14-15 years of training (4 yrs undergrad + 4 years of med school + 5 years of ortho residency + 1-2 years of fellowship in their designated area of specialty like knee, hips or spine etc.) and while the chiropractor might have a little less training than that, I am sure they can provide patients with many good alternatives for their bone, muscle and joint injuries.

I also don't think that any patient would ever go to a chiropractor for any medical issue that isn't directly related to pathological presentation involving bones, joints, ligaments, tendons and/or muscles. I mean, the chiros on board can correct me if I am wrong, but why would a patient go to a chiro for an internal medicine, surgical, cardiac, GI, pulmonary, neurological or even dermatological issue? I think the average consumer is smart enough to differentiate what medical specialists are there for and what Chiropractors can offer to them, as possibly an alternative to orthopedic surgery.

If I am wrong in my assumption that Chiro's only provide care towards injuries or disorders of the skeletal system and associated muscles, joints, and ligaments, please let me know gentlemen. I am not taking sides, just providing my basic view here.

"1"

Okay.  We're not, Ortho Lites cuz for the most part we are doing something completely different.  Only a chiropractor has extensive training in the chiropractic adjustment. MDs can argue that they take a weekend course in adjusting but if I need my benz repainted I'm not taking it to someone who's gonna paint it with a roller.  I'm gonna take it to someone who has been painting cars for a long time has a great rep and knows what they r doing in their field.  Fact is most orthos, espeically the up and coming ones really like us a lot. I get constant referals from them.  Successful orthos are way to busy to learn how to adjust patients and frankly they do not care to so again my point is we are completely different. Another example would be if you have a septic problem and you called two plumbers, one specializes in home remodels and indoor plumbing...the other specializes in septic only. Who would u use?  The remodel guy may say, yeah I've done a few septics in my time etc. You would go with the guy who is extensible trained in fixing that problem and doing it everyday.
We are adjusting the spine.  Something orthos at least are not extensively trained and or experienced in.

U may say well your both treating the spine.  But we are treating subluxations which a much easier way to understand it is a fixation of the particular jt.  so although its all the same part of the "Plumbing" its a condition that a chiro treats day in and day out.

Secondly like I said Orthos are too busy for that shit. They are full with more surgeries than most of them can handle.  And good ones will only operate when absolutely necessary and routinely at least the ones I know refer their pts to chiros.  If that fails then surgery is always an option. 

[Slik]

My sister-in-law is a Cardiac Nurse Practitioner and she seems to love what she does. She tells me that the Cardiologists in her Hospital are very fond of her presence and work provided.

I am trying to push my nephew (presently doing undergrad) to possibly consider a career as either a Physician's Assistant or Nurse Practitioner. I think those two groups (based on my limited interactions with them), seem to have a solid grasp of internal medicine/primary medicine and appear to be easily trainable for much more specialized disciplines (Cardiac, pulmonary, GI etc.).  Ideally, he would go to Med School, but the kid lacks the stamina (I think) to stay put for more than 8 years. I think those other tacks (pa, np) take about 6-7 years to obtain their degrees (undergrad + grad), so it might work for him if he can concentrate long enough.

My take on Chiropractors is that they are sort of like the lite-version of orthopedists, but with no surgical or prescriptive rights/privileges. Generally speaking, I see them similar to that of optometrists in comparison to ophthalmologists (The optometrist being able to perform the basic examinations that the ophthalmologist can, but with the restriction of not being able to perform surgery/invasive procedures or prescribe controlled substances).

I know that an orthopedic surgeon gets well over 14-15 years of training (4 yrs undergrad + 4 years of med school + 5 years of ortho residency + 1-2 years of fellowship in their designated area of specialty like knee, hips or spine etc.) and while the chiropractor might have a little less training than that, I am sure they can provide patients with many good alternatives for their bone, muscle and joint injuries.

I also don't think that any patient would ever go to a chiropractor for any medical issue that isn't directly related to pathological presentation involving bones, joints, ligaments, tendons and/or muscles. I mean, the chiros on board can correct me if I am wrong, but why would a patient go to a chiro for an internal medicine, surgical, cardiac, GI, pulmonary, neurological or even dermatological issue? I think the average consumer is smart enough to differentiate what medical specialists are there for and what Chiropractors can offer to them, as possibly an alternative to orthopedic surgery.

If I am wrong in my assumption that Chiro's only provide care towards injuries or disorders of the skeletal system and associated muscles, joints, and ligaments, please let me know gentlemen. I am not taking sides, just providing my basic view here.

"1"

To answer the second part of your question, most chiros don't treat anything but the spine.  For a chiro to say they treat organ or internal medicine problems is not only unethical it is unlawful in most states that I know of.  What usually happens though is a pt comes in for a musculo-skeletal problem and is treated, then they say, hey doc ever since I've been here my allergies aren't nearly as bad, or my acid reflux isn't as bad as it used to be, or my i no longer wet the bed (yes adults), or wutever. 

When you all hear the word chiropractic your defenses immediately go up so u set up barriers in your belief system saying the patients r crazy or it never happened or we r brain washing them.  Yet we all know that even reg exercise can boost the immune system and reboot the homeostasis of the body and improvements in your health unrelated to weight loss or muscle mass can be seen.

Sam w chiro.  If you have pressure on your nervous system then taking that pressure of can not only help you with the musculo-skeletal condition you have come in with but u may see an improvement in your over all health as well.

But no, any chiro that says they treat those conditions is wrong and should be called on it.

[Slik]

Here's a great example of someone getting relief from something unexpected from an adjustment.  Explain it away all u want.  The patient and the doc know the truth.

Note also that the chiro never said or intended to treat his blind eye and was shocked as hell when the pts eye sight returned.  This is the type of thing I am talking about that chiros see on a daily basis. Not blind eyes healing but a gamut of overall health conditions improving by getting adjusted.

[viking1]

This thread is like arguing politics or religion.