Chiropractors more harm than good?

[Mr Nobody]

They don't lift.

[Slik]

This thread is like arguing politics or religion. 

yup. to me i'm not even really taking it too srs. Just having fun n stating a case. Not really trying to convince anyone of anything but I didn't want to just stand by and not have the other side of the story heard when my profession is being bashed but this is getbig after all and  bashing a required!

[Devon97]

I also don't think that any patient would ever go to a chiropractor for any medical issue that isn't directly related to pathological presentation involving bones, joints, ligaments, tendons and/or muscles. I mean, the chiros on board can correct me if I am wrong, but why would a patient go to a chiro for an internal medicine, surgical, cardiac, GI, pulmonary, neurological or even dermatological issue? I think the average consumer is smart enough to differentiate what medical specialists are there for and what Chiropractors can offer to them, as possibly an alternative to orthopedic surgery.

If I am wrong in my assumption that Chiro's only provide care towards injuries or disorders of the skeletal system and associated muscles, joints, and ligaments, please let me know gentlemen. I am not taking sides, just providing my basic view here.

"1"

Not a chiro but I've been to several and some absolutely tell you that any problems you have in your body is directly due to the spine and by adjusting the spine can remedy the issue.

[ether]

Not a chiro but I've been to several and some absolutely tell you that any problems you have in your body is directly due to the spine and by adjusting the spine can remedy the issue.

Silk must be one of the honest chiropractors out there

[Krankenstein]

Quite the contrary
I'm on call all week, in between cases, bored as fucc

I love messing with "Allied health practitioners"

The only chiropractor I ever knew tried to get into medical school 4 years running, when all else failed law school and dentistry turned him down, he had no choice but to resort to your profession.

Have a great day Dr. Steve.

Oh, and by the way, not only did he get in on his first try he graduated at the top of the class!

So just by the basis that this guy wanted to be a Doctor...ANY kind of Doctor...you are saying Chiropractors are bad.  Oh, and he had no other choice?  What McDonalds didn't want him?  He couldnt do ANYTHING else in his life?  Again, sounds like the guy had no real idea what he wanted to do in life.    Congrats on being on call so much.  I am erecting a shrine to you as we speak.  

When you massage someone's foot versus taking out an organ, no shit there are more mistakes!

Who massaged someone's foot?  If you were poking at me tiny, if you read the MD was the one who missed the diagnosis.  Try again.

I am sorry, but if I am ever diagnosed with cancer, I am going to an oncologist, not a chiropractor or anything else.

I have no problems with adjunct forms of treatment, but I will take medically prescribed treatment by an oncologist over anything else.

At what point in this thread has ANYONE said get adjusted if you are needing treatment for cancer?  Please show me.  

I think they are a very good thing
Surgeons and other doctors do the little things very badly and many of these tasks; rounding on patients, checking bloodwork, drug interactions etc can be done better by them

They are very well trained and for the most part very eager to learn

Chiros have no clue what real medicine is or to take care of an actual sick patient, I would wager most would shit their pants if they ever saw a really sick cancer patient but are the first to point their fingers when treatments fail
Call cases for an experienced physician and very boring

Kind of like waxing a back instead of cracking it? Sorry couldn't think of a more suitable comparison

At this point I am going to kindly tell you to go fuck yourself and get off your high horse.  What real medicine is?  You mean the kind that has cause MILLIONS of death each year due to wrong prescriptions or interactions?  How about the unwarranted and excessive surgeries performed each year?  Or how about the number of deaths by these same surgeries?  

Lastly...a TRUE and SERIOUS fuck you to the comment about not ever seeing a really sick cancer patient.  Listen...and listen well asshole, I was right there with my father....stage IV...lung, brain, and stomach.  Saw him whither away in front of my eyes.  As I said earlier, the man had a pair of stones to decide to come home instead of just live his remaining days in the hospital.  I don't have to be a chiro to point a finger at your fucking profession when it comes to failed treatments yet people like you will continue to say "well, you never know with cases like this".  At least I know when to tell a patient "I don't think what I am doing is helping".  The constant high and mighty attitude many in your profession exhibit (you being one of them) is laughable.  

I would love to have been face to face with you when you said that line about not ever seeing a real sick cancer patient.  YOu would have needed a fellow college after that.  Make no mistake about it.  Whatever respect I may have had for you and what you do just went out the window.  There is no meltdown...there is blunt speaking there chief.

[Natural Man]

how did humans manage to survive for so long without "chiropractors" ?   Probably because they didnt need them. Scam artists, all of them. Why isnt massage considered a medicine too then?

[Krankenstein]

I also don't think that any patient would ever go to a chiropractor for any medical issue that isn't directly related to pathological presentation involving bones, joints, ligaments, tendons and/or muscles. I mean, the chiros on board can correct me if I am wrong, but why would a patient go to a chiro for an internal medicine, surgical, cardiac, GI, pulmonary, neurological or even dermatological issue? I think the average consumer is smart enough to differentiate what medical specialists are there for and what Chiropractors can offer to them, as possibly an alternative to orthopedic surgery.

If I am wrong in my assumption that Chiro's only provide care towards injuries or disorders of the skeletal system and associated muscles, joints, and ligaments, please let me know gentlemen. I am not taking sides, just providing my basic view here.

"1"

Let me say this.  In nearly 14yrs I have NEVER had a patient come to me with a broken bone (besides someone coming in not sure if they had 'done something to their finger at home', laceration, "lump" in skin, strange rash, cardiac related issue, etc.  I have had my share of post surgical stuff (laminectomy, harrington rods, etc).  I had one patient with osteosarcoma but that was diagnosed prior to me seeing him.  I have seen aortic repair, pace makers, etc.

Yes, people know when to see us...and when to see the MD.  I have never heard of someone going to a chiro when they should see an MD for serious shit.  OMR...after the comments by Etherfuck...I am done with this thread.  

Oh, and Uberman....you are right.  Also, how did we survive without without 'modern' medicine too?  Amazing we made it 2000+yrs without the need for Celebrex, Lipitor, Zanax, Wellbutrin, triple bypass surgeries, breast implants, etc etc etc.  Whoop....hang on, I have another spinal cord I need to sever.  Thanks for the reminder.

[Krankenstein]

Not a chiro but I've been to several and some absolutely tell you that any problems you have in your body is directly due to the spine and by adjusting the spine can remedy the issue.

True, and those are the ones who I wish would stop saying that.  But let me ask you this...are you just how far reaching the nervous system control is in the body?  If not, you may want to learn. 

On the other side, you have MD's that will barely look at you and just write something on a prescription pad so that you can go away because you don't have a "serious enough" problem.

[viking1]

professional drug peddlers

[OneMoreRep]

OMR...after the comments by Etherfuck...I am done with this thread.

Ether has his opinions regarding Chiropractors and they are just that, opinions.

Don't allow for his opinions to anger you. Even though an attack at your chosen profession is enough to incite an insightful response filled with passion and fervor, realize that he is probably just trying to mess with you in order to garner this exact reaction.

If you make an honest living by way of your practice, who is to say otherwise regarding the validity of your profession?

Patients come to you for a reason and further reinforce that reason by returning for 2nd and 3rd visits.

Take it for what it is, simply banter..

"1"

P.S. Take what I do for example (Investment Banking), everyone calls us thieves, liars, the detriment of all western civilizations etc. If I were to take every derogatory stab taken at my chosen profession to heart, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

[TommyBoy]

Not gonna try to convince people to "believe" in anything, or engage in pointless arguments. As far as I'm concerned, the evidence for what my profession does is so convincing that I don't need a "faith" to see what we do. Dont forget mainstream medicine's origins included blood-letting, and drilling holes in people's skulls to relieve evil spirits. There is plenty of peer reviewed literature being published monthly that backs what we do.

PS: you're an asshole Raymondo but still one of my favorites here  

My wife is currently going to a chiropractor. I HAVE heard a few horror stories though. I admittedly don't know much about it. Why aren't chiropractors "official"?

[Krankenstein]

Ether has his opinions regarding Chiropractors and they are just that, opinions.

Don't allow for his opinions to anger you. Even though an attack at your chosen profession is enough to incite an insightful response filled with passion and fervor, realize that he is probably just trying to mess with you in order to garner this exact reaction.

If you make an honest living by way of your practice, who is to say otherwise regarding the validity of your profession?

Patients come to you for a reason and further reinforce that reason by returning for 2nd and 3rd visits.

Take it for what it is, simply banter..

"1"

P.S. Take what I do for example (Investment Banking), everyone calls us thieves, liars, the detriment of all western civilizations etc. If I were to take every derogatory stab taken at my chosen profession to heart, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night.

Sorry, I will take the cancer comment personally.  That had nothing to do with my profession.  That was pure arrogance.  Like he would have any business saying that to ANYONE that they would shit if they saw a really sick cancer patient.  One of the posters in this thread has a family member with cancer.  Would he say that to that person?  Did I just drop my father off at the hospital front door and say "Take care dad, see you when you get better.  You know I would shit if I saw you really sick"?  Nope...that's not how it was.  Was he there when I was helping my father go to the bathroom?  Was he there when my father was throwing up from treatment?  Nope.  I was.  Did I shit my pants?  Nope. Not once...fuck him

I don't get bent out of shape on every comment.  I will provide rebuttal and points to the contrary.  This guy is crossing the line in my opinion.

I do not see it as simple banter.  I can be respectful and provide logical responses to things.  That was complete bullshit.  If he wanted that reaction (which I don't think is the case) he got it.  The only thing is that it was simply the high and mighty way about him that has become more and more evident as this goes along.

[OneMoreRep]

Sorry, I will take the cancer comment personally.  That had nothing to do with my profession.  That was pure arrogance.  Like he would have any business saying that to ANYONE that they would shit if they saw a really sick cancer patient.  One of the posters in this thread has a family member with cancer.  Would he say that to that person?  Did I just drop my father off at the hospital front door and say "Take care dad, see you when you get better.  You know I would shit if I saw you really sick"?  Nope...that's not how it was.  Was he there when I was helping my father go to the bathroom?  Was he there when my father was throwing up from treatment?  Nope.  I was.  Did I shit my pants?  Nope. Not once...fuck him

I think what he meant was that a Chiropractor would shit his pants if he was faced with having to medically manage the care provided to a cancer patient (i.e. determine which labs to run, which scans to order, which chemo to select, how much radiation to administer, what surgery to perform in order to remove tumors, lymph nodes and/or possibly portions of an organ if not the entire organ, when to stop treatment and refer to hospice etc.). I don't think he meant that you would lose your shit when having to care for (directly in your case as with your father) someone with cancer in a humane fashion which calls for a generous amount of sympathy. His stance was based more upon the idea of a chiropractor being faced with having to diagnose and properly treat a cancer patient by way of pharmaceutical and surgical intervention.

I could be wrong, but his stab was at the limited scope of practice a chiropractor would have if faced with a cancer patient in a clinical setting.

*Let me be clear*... If an internal medicine doctor, cardiologist, gastroenterologist, pulmonologist or even dermatologist were faced with medically managing the COMPLETE care of a patient with advanced stage metastatic cancer, they too would be shitting in their pants INDIVIDUALLY.

THAT is why the medical model calls for the patient to be cared for by various specialists. If an end-stage cancer patient presents with left-ventricular hypertrophy, atelectasis of the lung, an acute case of diverticulitis and a sudden onset of psoriasis, GUESS WHAT!?!
.
.
Instead of just an Oncologist treating the patient, you will have a cardiologist, pulmonologist, gastroenterologist and dermatologist ALL making rounds on this patient to provide both their recommendations and implement pharmaceutical treatments, because if not for their united care towards the patient, they would each INDIVIDUALLY SHIT THEIR PANTS if they had to care for all of this patient's problems on their own.

Again, I could be completely wrong..

"1"

[Devon97]

True, and those are the ones who I wish would stop saying that.  But let me ask you this...are you just how far reaching the nervous system control is in the body?  If not, you may want to learn. 

On the other side, you have MD's that will barely look at you and just write something on a prescription pad so that you can go away because you don't have a "serious enough" problem.

I actually agree with you on both those counts.

Relax brudda, you're getting way too worked up over this.

[chaos]

Krankystein pounding the tren these days.

[Krankenstein]

Krankystein pounding the tren these days.

   Chaos still pounding little farm animals these days

[chaos]

  Chaos still pounding little farm animals these days

You need a hug, bro

[ether]

So just by the basis that this guy wanted to be a Doctor...ANY kind of Doctor...you are saying Chiropractors are bad.  Oh, and he had no other choice?  What McDonalds didn't want him?  He couldnt do ANYTHING else in his life?  Again, sounds like the guy had no real idea what he wanted to do in life.    Congrats on being on call so much.  I am erecting a shrine to you as we speak.  

Who massaged someone's foot?  If you were poking at me tiny, if you read the MD was the one who missed the diagnosis.  Try again.

At what point in this thread has ANYONE said get adjusted if you are needing treatment for cancer?  Please show me.  

At this point I am going to kindly tell you to go fuck yourself and get off your high horse.  What real medicine is?  You mean the kind that has cause MILLIONS of death each year due to wrong prescriptions or interactions?  How about the unwarranted and excessive surgeries performed each year?  Or how about the number of deaths by these same surgeries?  

Lastly...a TRUE and SERIOUS fuck you to the comment about not ever seeing a really sick cancer patient.  Listen...and listen well asshole, I was right there with my father....stage IV...lung, brain, and stomach.  Saw him whither away in front of my eyes.  As I said earlier, the man had a pair of stones to decide to come home instead of just live his remaining days in the hospital.  I don't have to be a chiro to point a finger at your fucking profession when it comes to failed treatments yet people like you will continue to say "well, you never know with cases like this".  At least I know when to tell a patient "I don't think what I am doing is helping".  The constant high and mighty attitude many in your profession exhibit (you being one of them) is laughable.  

I would love to have been face to face with you when you said that line about not ever seeing a real sick cancer patient.  YOu would have needed a fellow college after that.  Make no mistake about it.  Whatever respect I may have had for you and what you do just went out the window.  There is no meltdown...there is blunt speaking there chief.

Damn dude, it's a message board.

Sorry about your dad.

Yes, I am an arrogant prick with a god complex. Find someone in my profession who isn't and that person is a saint or very bad at what they do.

Either way, chiropractic seems like a very very shady way to earn a buck but if you are helping people than more power to you. However, I will continue to belittle the profession any time one of my patients says they got advice about cancer care from people in your field.

That's all from me in this thread

[Krankenstein]

Damn dude, it's a message board.

Sorry about your dad.

Yes, I am an arrogant prick with a god complex. Find someone in my profession who isn't and that person is a saint or very bad at what they do.

Either way, chiropractic seems like a very very shady way to earn a buck but if you are helping people than more power to you. However, I will continue to belittle the profession any time one of my patients says they got advice about cancer care from people in your field.

That's all from me in this thread

Yeah, its a message board...so what.  You can make all the negative comments you want about my profession and I will be able to counter it with stuff about yours.  You do what you do, I do what I do.  As far as god complex and finding one who isn't.  I have personally treated the head of an ER from the Quad Cities.  Was as nice as anyone could ever hope.  Saint?  Nope...the guy fucked around on his wife a lot.  When I was in Arizona I treated an ortho surgeon who owned three clinics.  The guy had a sick sense of humor but no god complex.

You can say what I do is shady, but the bottom line is I treat ethically and with all due diligence.  I treat with medical necessity and no more.  In fact, I am personally on a prominent review board for insurance companies.  I review notes and bills for them and help determine if someone is doing the right thing or not.  I want the guys who are bad examples out of practice.

Continue to belittle the guy who says he can cure cancer from an adjustment.  In fact, give me a name and I will reach out to that states review board and fuck the guy myself.  Do not, however, belittle a profession because of it.  Ever hear the statement "Throwing the baby out with the bath water"?  How about I lump all you idiots under the same umbrella for operating on the WRONG extremity next time?  You continue to ignore how my "shady" profession diagnosed the problem with that girl when your "god-like" one wanted to just have her ice it.  Sit there and type away....or not.  I have helped my share of people when they were fed up with their MD's NOT helping them, and I will continue to do so (thankfully) without your approval....but with their thanks.

P.S.  You can continue to fuck off.  The apology was dismissed, just like you.

[chaos]

Kranky is very serious here. We may need Chiroflex to intervene before he busts a blood vessel and needs ether to save him!

[Necrosis]

Yeah, its a message board...so what.  You can make all the negative comments you want about my profession and I will be able to counter it with stuff about yours.  You do what you do, I do what I do.  As far as god complex and finding one who isn't.  I have personally treated the head of an ER from the Quad Cities.  Was as nice as anyone could ever hope.  Saint?  Nope...the guy fucked around on his wife a lot.  When I was in Arizona I treated an ortho surgeon who owned three clinics.  The guy had a sick sense of humor but no god complex.

You can say what I do is shady, but the bottom line is I treat ethically and with all due diligence.  I treat with medical necessity and no more.  In fact, I am personally on a prominent review board for insurance companies.  I review notes and bills for them and help determine if someone is doing the right thing or not.  I want the guys who are bad examples out of practice.

Continue to belittle the guy who says he can cure cancer from an adjustment.  In fact, give me a name and I will reach out to that states review board and fuck the guy myself.  Do not, however, belittle a profession because of it.  Ever hear the statement "Throwing the baby out with the bath water"?  How about I lump all you idiots under the same umbrella for operating on the WRONG extremity next time?  You continue to ignore how my "shady" profession diagnosed the problem with that girl when your "god-like" one wanted to just have her ice it.  Sit there and type away....or not.  I have helped my share of people when they were fed up with their MD's NOT helping them, and I will continue to do so (thankfully) without your approval....but with their thanks.

P.S.  You can continue to fuck off.  The apology was dismissed, just like you.

Sit back and take a break he is manipulating you no need to being getting out of place, don't sublux...fuck.

How come there is nogood research on pubmed about chiros? or is there?

[usmcdevildoc]

CHIROS CAN BE VERY DANGEROUS.

I once had a 22 year old come through the ER following aggressive chiropractic manipulation of his neck.  He was comatose and following his "visit" with the chiropractor had developed dissection of both vertebral arteries (which course through the bony structures of the cervical spine).
HE DIED.

I TEND TO SHY AWAY FROM ANY AGGRESSIVE NECK MANIPULATION-- MASSAGE OR OTHERWISE.
Hell go to one of these Asian massage parlors and get a "happy ending".

DOC
Lift, fuck, make money

[viking1]

This is off topic:    but, I'm always wondering as to why Dr Dena can get away with her kinky posing pics, selling used thongs, etc...    wouldn't that violate the code of ethics?    Serious question.

[Krankenstein]

CHIROS CAN BE VERY DANGEROUS.

I once had a 22 year old come through the ER following aggressive chiropractic manipulation of his neck.  He was comatose and following his "visit" with the chiropractor had developed dissection of both vertebral arteries (which course through the bony structures of the cervical spine).
HE DIED.

I TEND TO SHY AWAY FROM ANY AGGRESSIVE NECK MANIPULATION-- MASSAGE OR OTHERWISE.
Hell go to one of these Asian massage parlors and get a "happy ending".

DOC
Lift, fuck, make money

Yes, unfortunately that can happen.  How many adjustments per year with how many cases like this?  Please provide me with those statistics.  Now, because of that case you wont go to chiro....after reading the following...are you going to ever go under anesthesia?

In a recent article published in the Deutsches Ärzteblatt, the German Medical Association’s official international science journal, shows that after decades of decline, the worldwide death rate during full anesthesia is back on the rise, to about seven patients in every million. And the number of deaths within a year after a general anesthesia is frighteningly high: one in 20. In the over-65 age group, it’s one in 10.

Of the 2,211 recorded anesthesia-related deaths in the United States during 1999–2005, 46.6% were attributable to overdose of anesthetics, 42.5% to adverse effects of anesthetics in therapeutic use, 3.6% to complications of anesthesia during pregnancy, labor, and puerperium, and 7.3% to other complications of anesthesia. The estimated rates from anesthesia-related deaths were 1.1 per million population per year (1.45 for males and 0.77 for females) and 8.2 per million hospital surgical discharges (11.7 for men and 6.5 for women).

So, Over 2200 deaths from anesthesia and how many chiro related deaths?  Hmmm.

Now, am I saying surgery is not warranted or we shouldn't do it....or anesthesia is evil?  Nope.  All I am saying is that its a risky thing.  as risky as getting adjusted?  Nope.  But, because my profession is so vilified...one death in a year puts us right up there as genocidal maniacs.

Devildoc....one thing that would be interesting to see would be if the doc who did that to the kid took the necessary precautions before cervical adjusting.  If not, he is an idiot.

Re: Dr Dena...UGH....I think thats complete bullshit...but if her state does not have an ethics clause in their bylaws...she can shove a rat up her ass and still go and practice the next day. 

[Slik]

HAHAHAHA.  This thread is so funny.  I am lit laffing my head off.  I guess i wouldn't think it was funny if I had the slightest doubt about what I do.  All I can say is that the MDs here either live under a fucking rock, are totally misinformed or way behind the times. Tons of your brethren r continually referring to me and thousands of other chiros across this country on a daily basis and we with them.  I don't think i really cut down on medicine in this thread, maybe I used deaths etc in a response to someone but as I said medicine and surgery is often needed and for the most part are noble professions.  I don't need to try to bolster my profession by putting another one down.

Getbiggers, the MDs cutting down on chiro on this board r thankfully these days in the minority.  Again, u can cite "well I saw a guy who was brought in for a stroke after a chiropractic adjustment etc..."  Maybe it happened that way. Maybe it didn't.

 The odds of u being hurt seriously by a chiropractor are as I said before infinitesimal.

Read again.  Why do u think our malpractice insurance is around 1,200 dollars a year.  The MDs here can spin all they want and make us sound like we are hurting so many people.  All prejudicial lies or perhaps just misinformation or a judgment call based upon something they were told by a professor in medical school or who knows why they are saying that we don't know what we are doing or that we are hurting so many people but these things are simply not true.

Can you please provide actual stats of all of these people we are harming.  You won't be able to.  

Here's the funny thing.  You'd think that after all this  time we wouldn't be playing this dumb game since its already been played out in the court of public opinion. Wake up.  Its not 1950 anymore.

People want chiropractic.  If done correctly, it works very well.

The scare tactics have been tried before by the AMA and they failed.  You are fighting an old worn out battle.  Patients, consumers etc r much smarter these days.  They will decide and have ultimately decided whether chiropractic is a viable health profession.

if u see my earlier posts I am not angry in the slightest with this thread.  Its fn hilarious.  I am not trying to convince anyone to change their minds.  I just didn't want to sit idly by as my profession is attacked.