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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on March 14, 2007, 10:49:22 PM
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I guess he didn't the conspiracy theory memo . . .
Transcript: Khalid Sheikh Mohammed confesses 9/11 role
POSTED: 12:55 a.m. EDT, March 15, 2007
Story Highlights• Transcript is from Saturday hearing at Guantanamo; released by Pentagon
• Mohammed: "I was responsible for the 9/11 Operation, from A to Z"
• Transcript says he's responsible for other attacks, including Bali bombing
• Mohammed is among 14 prisoners identified by U.S. as "high value"
Adjust font size:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the suspected mastermind of the September 11, 2001, terror attacks, admitted to those attacks and numerous others during a U.S. military hearing on Saturday, according to an edited transcript of the hearing released by the Pentagon Wednesday.
In a statement from him, read by a U.S. military representative, he said, "I was responsible for the 9/11 operation, from A to Z."
The transcript continues with the list of operations he was responsible for, including the Richard Reid shoe bomber attempt to blow up an airliner over the Atlantic Ocean, the Bali nightclub bombing in Indonesia, the 1993 World Trade Center attack and other attacks that were foiled. (Read transcript (PDF))
The latter included surveying the Panama Canal for an attack to destroy it and surveying suspension bridges and high-rises in New York and Chicago, Illinois, to bring them down as well.
The list of some 29 operations he was responsible for is followed by a shorter list of operations he was partially responsible for, including an assassination attempt against then-Pope John Paul II while he was visiting the Philippines. (Watch why Mohammed likened himself to George Washington )
In a later part of the statement, Mohammed likened himself to George Washington as a revolutionary.
The verbatim translation in the transcript is not always clear.
"If now we were living in the Revolutionary War and George Washington he being arrested through Britain," it reads. "For sure he, they would consider him enemy combatant."
Mohammed: Sorry I killed kids
He made no apologies for what he has done, but he did express remorse for the death of children in the September 11 attacks.
"I don't like to kill people," he said. "I feel very sorry they been killed kids in 9/11."
Transcripts of two other detainees considered "high-value" by the U.S. government -- Abu Faraj al-Libi (transcript (PDF)) and Ramzi Bin al-Shibh (transcript (PDF)) -- were also issued Wednesday. Their hearings were held Friday. The three are part of a group of 14 detainees once held in secret CIA prisons but moved to Guantanamo Bay by President Bush in September.
All three hearings were held at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
The three-member military panel hearings, unlike similar hearings in the past, were closed to the media and to the detainees' lawyers because of fears the detainees might divulge classified information, according to Pentagon officials.
Officials have said the hearings would last between two and three hours each, but it could take days or weeks to know what transpired, because the findings must be approved by higher military authorities.
The 14 detainees have been given military advisers but they are offering no legal assistance. Detainees are also given only an unclassified summary of the evidence against them but are allowed to have witnesses called in from out of the country to testify in their favor.
The hearings, called combatant status review tribunals, determine whether a detainee should be classified as an enemy combatant by the president to make them eligible for a military trial.
The hearings for the 14 are expected to last through April, according to Pentagon officials.
Pentagon officials said a total of six high-value detainees have now gone through these hearings. The names of the three others and the transcripts of their hearings have not yet been released.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/14/guantanamo.mohammed/index.html
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Interesting... but it took 6 years for a confession?
I don't buy it... sorry.
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KSM's confessions are leaked whenever politicially convenient for Bush.
KSM has confessed to every crime in history.
KSM was tortured for a long time.
And above all, BB, you're missing the role of paki ISI - they were the hand that fed KSM and the arabs - these men legitimately hated us. But they were completely independent of things like NORAD being told to stand down. The arabs are useful idiots here - their hatred is used to get them to do these terrible things - but infrastructrually, it's obvious they didn't possess the ability to do everything here.
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I guess he didn't the conspiracy theory memo . . .
Hahaha... you simpleton. :)
After 4 days in Guantanamo, you'd have confessed to making W. choke on his pretzel.
And since when do Arabic speakers describe something as "from A to Z"? LOL
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Hahaha... you simpleton. :)
After 4 days in Guantanamo, you'd have confessed to making W. choke on his pretzel.
And since when do Arabic speakers describe something as "from A to Z"? LOL
The question is, what 911 bombshell is the 911 skeptic world about to reveal - that white house caught wind of - that they're using this to get in front of? Might be something to watch for...
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And here he is, in all his glory. This "confession" is rather dubious considering how long it took to get out of him.
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LOL...
he's confessed to the pearl killing, 9/11, the 1993 WTC, pretty much every terrorist attack in history!
He probably confessed to the JFK killing too.
Cable news is already questioning the authenticity of his claims - that he was tortured into confession to every unsolved terror attack in history- the ultimate fall guy.
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::)
Of course the confession is fake. Along with the corroborating computer records a terrorism expert discussed on MSNBC this morning. The guy also said Mohammed started making comments like these about four years ago.
But there must be an explanation, because we all know that missiles hit the Pentagon and the WTC and that the CIA-controlled media faked the news coverage of planes hitting the WTC.
Oh, and all of the witnesses who actually saw the planes have been drugged and/or threatened by the CIA.
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Haven't other men claimed they plotted 9/11? I'm not saying Mohammed had nothing to do with it but the fact that he claims he was in charge of everything from A-Z I'm skeptical about.
Rob, serious question. Deep down do you truly think that 9/11 was a conspiracy perpetrated by our Government? Do you honestly believe that?
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::)
Of course the confession is fake. Along with the corroborating computer records a terrorism expert discussed on MSNBC this morning. The guy also said Mohammed started making comments like these about four years ago.
But there must be an explanation, because we all know that missiles hit the Pentagon and the WTC and that the CIA-controlled media faked the news coverage of planes hitting the WTC.
Oh, and all of the witnesses who actually saw the planes have been drugged and/or threatened by the CIA.
hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The guy also said Mohammed started making comments like these about four years ago.
Quite a coincidence that they're only mentioning it now with his kangaroo court trial about to start.
::)
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Haven't other men claimed they plotted 9/11? I'm not saying Mohammed had nothing to do with it but the fact that he claims he was in charge of everything from A-Z I'm skeptical about.
Rob, serious question. Deep down do you truly think that 9/11 was a conspiracy perpetrated by our Government? Do you honestly believe that?
THe 19 arabs and KSM *WERE* involved.
However, they handled getting 19 guys on planes who slashed their way to the cockpit.
Things like WTC7 being reported collapsed, then collapsing inexplicably from fire 26 minutes later...
THings like NORAD re-routing planes to do slow laps in the Atlantic, even after the 4 planes were isolated and targeted
THings like fighting a 911 investigation for 441 days
Those things were done by white guys in ties.
You see, it was a "let it happen on purpose" with some help from a small cabal here. The paki ISI general (eating breakfast with a 911 commissioner and a cia director on 9/11) was the middleman. He paid atta 100k. He is very good friends with our white house.
They used the stupid hateful arabs to slash their way to the planes, then the rest was a military operation.
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Quite a coincidence that they're only mentioning it now with his kangaroo court trial about to start.
::)
Oh I forgot that one. The conspiracy includes the judges, lawyers, and jurors (if any) involved in these trials. They must be on the CIA payroll too.
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Oh I forgot that one. The conspiracy includes the judges, lawyers, and jurors (if any) involved in these trials. They must be on the CIA payroll too.
I love how you keep hoping that your sarcastic use of the word "conspiracy" will make your debating opponents shrivel up from embarrassment. :)
I'm genuinely interested in hearing your reasonable answers to these two simple questions:
1. Why would an Arabic speaker describe anything as being "from A to Z"?
2. Why would the government wait years to publicize a confession from the 9/11 mastermind?
Or are you going to duck this with your usual "I don't have to answer any of your questions" ? LOL
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I love how you keep hoping that your sarcastic use of the word "conspiracy" will make your debating opponents shrivel up from embarrassment. :)
I'm genuinely interested in hearing your reasonable answers to these two simple questions:
1. Why would an Arabic speaker describe anything as being "from A to Z"?
2. Why would the government wait years to publicize a confession from the 9/11 mastermind?
Or are you going to duck this with your usual "I don't have to answer any of your questions" ? LOL
LOL . . . LOL. . . . You are talking about the use of sarcasm to avoid debate? LOL. . .
I'll get back to you in a minute. After I compose myself. . . . LOL. ;D
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I'll get back to you in a minute. After I compose myself. . . . LOL. ;D
(http://www.otherlandtoys.co.uk/images/duck800.jpg)
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And since when do Arabic speakers describe something as "from A to Z"? LOL
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) is thought to have been born in the Baluchistan region of Pakistan, and spent some of his formative years in Kuwait. He joined the Muslim Brotherhood at age 16 and returned to Pakistan soon after, studied in the United States for several years, and left for Afghanistan in the 1980s where he and his brothers fought against the Soviet Union during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. He is thought to have commenced anti-American terrorist operations in the early 1990s.
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You're an idiot from A to Z.
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I love how you keep hoping that your sarcastic use of the word "conspiracy" will make your debating opponents shrivel up from embarrassment. :)
I'm genuinely interested in hearing your reasonable answers to these two simple questions:
1. Why would an Arabic speaker describe anything as being "from A to Z"?
2. Why would the government wait years to publicize a confession from the 9/11 mastermind?
Or are you going to duck this with your usual "I don't have to answer any of your questions" ? LOL
Okay, I'm good. :)
1. I don't know.
2. I don't know.
Addendum to both questions: who cares?
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Dude is one ugly fucker. :-X
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Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) is thought to have been born in the Baluchistan region of Pakistan, and spent some of his formative years in Kuwait. He joined the Muslim Brotherhood at age 16 and returned to Pakistan soon after, studied in the United States for several years, and left for Afghanistan in the 1980s where he and his brothers fought against the Soviet Union during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. He is thought to have commenced anti-American terrorist operations in the early 1990s.
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You're an idiot from A to Z.
I see. So, having picked up that bit of English slang during his several years among us, he figured he'd impress his CIA torturers by incorporating it into a confession that will bring him the death penalty. ::)
I'm guessing you reply to a lot of penis-enlargement spam. LOL
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I see. So, having picked up that bit of English slang during his several years among us, he figured he'd impress his CIA torturers by incorporating it into a confession that will bring him the death penalty. ::)
I'm guessing you reply to a lot of penis-enlargement spam. LOL
Like I said previously, Leftwing bloggers can never concede a point.
You got owned. Deal with it.
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Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) is thought to have been born in the Baluchistan region of Pakistan, and spent some of his formative years in Kuwait. He joined the Muslim Brotherhood at age 16 and returned to Pakistan soon after, studied in the United States for several years, and left for Afghanistan in the 1980s where he and his brothers fought against the Soviet Union during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. He is thought to have commenced anti-American terrorist operations in the early 1990s.
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You're an idiot from A to Z.
lol. Don't try and confuse people with the facts. :)
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1. I don't know.
2. I don't know.
Yep, that's about the size of it. ;D
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So Beach bum you believe the Sheikh Mohammed did all of the above mentioned "from A to Z" ?
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So Beach bum you believe the Sheikh Mohammed did all of the above mentioned "from A to Z" ?
That's what the government told him, isn't it? Or course, he believes it. ;D
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So Beach bum you believe the Sheikh Mohammed did all of the above mentioned "from A to Z" ?
I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. What I don't believe is that he was tortured into a false confession and falsified computer records for years as part of some dumb conspiracy to shoot missiles into the WTC.
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That's what the government told him, isn't it? Or course, he believes it. ;D
His sarcasm wrecks truth, even though he tries to make it witty by throwing out the "c" word. I just want to know if someone actual believes this. Entering the twilight zone....
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What I don't believe is that he was tortured into a false confession
Right. Because W. said it in plain words: "We don't torture." ::)
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Oh I forgot that one. The conspiracy includes the judges, lawyers, and jurors (if any) involved in these trials. They must be on the CIA payroll too.
it's a 3-member military panel. Sandra Day and pals thought that such a panel could be neutral (as long as none of the panel members had personally helped capture the defendant), but a little more process wouldn't hurt the govt in cases like these.
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Right. Because W. said it in plain words: "We don't torture." ::)
No. Because it doesn't make any dang sense.
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I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. What I don't believe is that he was tortured into a false confession and falsified computer records for years as part of some dumb conspiracy to shoot missiles into the WTC.
Well it's a Official recorded transcript during a interrogation. So are you saying it's possible your government made this all up? Or that they did not torture the confession out of him, and simply told him if he confessed then they would end the torture?
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it's a 3-member military panel. Sandra Day and pals thought that such a panel could be neutral (as long as none of the panel members had personally helped capture the defendant), but a little more process wouldn't hurt the govt in cases like these.
I haven't thought about it much, but you might be right. I'm not crazy about treating foreign terrorists the same as POWs and definitely don't think they should be afforded all of the rights of American citizens. I do, however, have problems with holding someone indefinitely without charges.
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Well it's a Official recorded transcript during a interrogation. So are you saying it's possible your government made this all up? Or that they did not torture the confession out of him, and simply told him if he confessed then they would end the torture?
What? You asked me whether he actually committed all of the offenses he claims he did. My answer is "I don't know." Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.
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I do, however, have problems with holding someone indefinitely without charges.
Well, fortunately, now he's gotten his secret hearing without legal representation. That should insure justice is served. ::)
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No. Because it doesn't make any dang sense.
BB, do you believe the US tortures people?
Simple yes or no.
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BB, do you believe the US tortures people?
Simple yes or no.
What do you mean by "torture"? Which part of the "US"? The military, the CIA, the president himself?
And why are you asking me this question?
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What do you mean by "torture"? Which part of the "US"? The military, the CIA, the president himself?
And why are you asking me this question?
(http://www.otherlandtoys.co.uk/images/duck800.jpg)
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What do you mean by "torture"? Which part of the "US"? The military, the CIA, the president himself?
And why are you asking me this question?
1. The CIA, the military, or the white house. Any of them. Yes or no.
2. I'm curious if you believe we do.
I believe we do. CIA agents worked with the NYTimes/FOX (I think it was those 2) last year to detail the waterboarding effect on KSM. I just wonder if some people still believe Bush - which would mean disbelieving the CIA.
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1. The CIA, the military, or the white house. Any of them. Yes or no.
2. I'm curious if you believe we do.
I believe we do. CIA agents worked with the NYTimes/FOX (I think it was those 2) last year to detail the waterboarding effect on KSM. I just wonder if some people still believe Bush - which would mean disbelieving the CIA.
CIA = possibly. Military = probably. White House = no.
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CIA = possibly. Military = probably. White House = no.
Why would the white house allow the CIA and Military to use torture?
They are the bosses, you know.
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Military = probably
But our army is the greatest because of their moral stature, right? ::)
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Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) is thought to have been born in the Baluchistan region of Pakistan, and spent some of his formative years in Kuwait. He joined the Muslim Brotherhood at age 16 and returned to Pakistan soon after, studied in the United States for several years, and left for Afghanistan in the 1980s where he and his brothers fought against the Soviet Union during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. He is thought to have commenced anti-American terrorist operations in the early 1990s.
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You're an idiot from A to Z.
Have you ever spent any time around Middle Eastern students studying in the US? I have, Boston is littered with them.
If you think they speak the same way we do you're either nuts or you've never actually spent any time around them. They take glory in being different from us, they revel in it. In fact they look down on us.
Your so called evidence is a joke.
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KSM's testimony was tortured out of him. And it sounds like they pinned 31 attacks on him so that history could say "Yes, Bush solved all the world's crimes by busting that one guy!"
If you believe KSM did all 31 of these deeds, well, you probably also believe Bush never lied, 19 arabs called off norad and brought down WTC7 and caused false reporting 8 hours after their deaths, and that Iraq had WMD, but chose to never use them on us.
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Your so called evidence is a joke.
Does this mean I wasn't owned? ::)
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Why would the white house allow the CIA and Military to use torture?
They are the bosses, you know.
Ever heard of the phrase "plausible deniability"? Very common in politics. I doubt the President either knows about or authorizes illegal and/or questionable acts.
And I am not conceding that anyone has done anything illegal.
Also not sure what this has to do with Mohammed confessing to his role in 911.
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not sure what this has to do with Mohammed confessing to his role in 911.
Dick Cheney, US vice-president, has endorsed the use of "water boarding" for terror suspects and confirmed that the controversial interrogation technique was used on Khaled Sheikh Mohammed, the senior al-Qaeda operative now being held at Guantánamo Bay.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15433467/
But I'm sure the horror of being murdered by drowning had nothing to do with his "confession", right? ::)
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Ever heard of the phrase "plausible deniability"? Very common in politics. I doubt the President either knows about or authorizes illegal and/or questionable acts.
And I am not conceding that anyone has done anything illegal.
Also not sure what this has to do with Mohammed confessing to his role in 911.
KSM was waterboarded, according to CIA sources.
And that shit about plausible deniability - wrong. The President appoints the generals and CIA staff. They are HIS people.
Sometimes I wonder if you give a shit about right and wrong. SOunds like it's just about your party vs. the world.
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Dick Cheney, US vice-president, has endorsed the use of "water boarding" for terror suspects and confirmed that the controversial interrogation technique was used on Khaled Sheikh Mohammed, the senior al-Qaeda operative now being held at Guantánamo Bay.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15433467/
But I'm sure the horror of being murdered by drowning had nothing to do with his "confession", right? ::)
You talking about this admission by Cheney (from your link):
"For a while there, I was criticized as being the 'vice-president for torture'," Cheney added. "We don't torture ... We live up to our obligations in international treaties that we're party to and so forth."
I guess because you believe missiles hit the WTC and the Pentagon and that these attacks were carried out by the U.S. government, you cannot accept Mohammed's confession. It has to be the result of torture. Otherwise, your conspiracy theory falls apart.
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You talking about this admission by Cheney (from your link):
"For a while there, I was criticized as being the 'vice-president for torture'," Cheney added. "We don't torture ... We live up to our obligations in international treaties that we're party to and so forth."
I guess because you believe missiles hit the WTC and the Pentagon and that these attacks were carried out by the U.S. government, you cannot accept Mohammed's confession. It has to be the result of torture. Otherwise, your conspiracy theory falls apart.
classic red herring.
you respond to ribo's info on Cheney torture statements with an attack on 240's 911 belief.
i'm truly in your head, doctor.
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classic red herring.
you respond to ribo's info on Cheney torture statements with an attack on 240's 911 belief.
i'm truly in your head, doctor.
Bum "doubts" that the President condones "questionable" acts like waterboarding. And even if he did, what would that have to do with Mohammed's confession?
So I link to a mainstream news outlet story that has the Vice-President not only publicly endorsing waterboarding - but confirming Mohammed was subjected to it.
Now if I was caught out in a moment of bare-assed ignorance like this, I would be man enough to say, "Whoops! My bad."
But of course Bum, apparently falling short in that department, instead goes for the ad hominem by (falsely) claiming I've endorsed the missile theory - as if his imagined discrediting of me there would have any bearing at all on his own gaffe. Very sad. :(
Coming up next: "I said the President - not the Vice-President, nyah nyah nyah" (which would raise the interesting question of who's running the show over there). Followed by: "Waterboarding isn't torture - because Cheney said it's not!"
::)
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Bum "doubts" that the President condones "questionable" acts like waterboarding. And even if he did, what would that have to do with Mohammed's confession?
So I link to a mainstream news outlet story that has the Vice-President not only publicly endorsing waterboarding - but confirming Mohammed was subjected to it.
Now if I was caught out in a moment of bare-assed ignorance like this, I would be man enough to say, "Whoops! My bad."
But of course Bum, apparently falling short in that department, instead goes for the ad hominem by (falsely) claiming I've endorsed the missile theory - as if his imagined discrediting of me there would have any bearing at all on his own gaffe. Very sad. :(
Coming up next: "I said the President - not the Vice-President, nyah nyah nyah" (which would raise the interesting question of who's running the show over there). Followed by: "Waterboarding isn't torture - because Cheney said it's not!"
::)
LOL. If nothing else, you are entertaining Ribo. These fictitious exchanges, inferences, etc. are funny. :) Not a lot of substance to much of what you say, but funny nonetheless.
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LOL. If nothing else, you are entertaining Ribo. These fictitious exchanges, inferences, etc. are funny. :) Not a lot of substance to much of what you say, but funny nonetheless.
???
He actually just made a valid point. I was hoping you would discuss it. Your dodge is disappointing. :(
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???
He actually just made a valid point. I was hoping you would discuss it. Your dodge is disappointing. :(
(http://www.otherlandtoys.co.uk/images/duck800.jpg)
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This guy "confessed" that he was responsible for the 9/11 Operation, from A to Z?
I thought we already pinned this one on bin laden
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This guy "confessed" that he was responsible for the 9/11 Operation, from A to Z?
I thought we already pinned this one on bin laden
It's amazing what people will take responsibility for while you're slowly murdering them. ::)
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This guy "confessed" that he was responsible for the 9/11 Operation, from A to Z?
I thought we already pinned this one on bin laden
the educated world knows that
1) Bin laden was getting dialysis in sept 2001 on a US base in Dubai
2) Bin laden died in late 01/early 02 in Egypt
3) The "confession tapes" were miracle finds just when the US couldn't show the UN/world any evidence he was involved, like we had promised we would.
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Have you ever spent any time around Middle Eastern students studying in the US? I have, Boston is littered with them.
If you think they speak the same way we do you're either nuts or you've never actually spent any time around them. They take glory in being different from us, they revel in it. In fact they look down on us.
Your so called evidence is a joke.
No, you're the joke.
Ribo was the one making the claim that KSM, as an Arabic speaker, wouldn't use American slang. Ribo is the one who needs to provide evidence, not me.
It's a fact that KSM studied in the U.S., and was therefore exposed to American Slang. Throw in that he's a "Mastermind," and, apparently, those types tend to be pretty smart, and pick up things quickly.
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No, you're the joke.
Devastating riposte. ::)
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Devastating riposte. ::)
Do you ever leave this place?
If this were a bar, you'd be a stool. Actually, you are a stool: The type that needs to be softened.
For God sakes, go out and help some of those poor people you supposedly care so much about.
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Do you ever leave this place?
If this were a bar, you'd be a stool. Actually, you are a stool: The type that needs to be softened.
For God sakes, go out and help some of those poor people you supposedly care so much about.
LOL, excellent. I was going to reply to your post calling me a joke but then I saw this little beauty. ;D
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Actually, you are a stool: The type that needs to be softened.
I'm guessing you're not on the school debating team. ::)
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<< In all, Mohammed said he was responsible for planning 29 individual attacks, including many that were never executed. The comments were included in a 26-page transcript released by the Pentagon, which also blacked out some of his remarks. >>
What, you mean the parts where he was screaming, "Oh, God, please make it stop! I'll say whatever you want! No more, please! AHHHH, GOD, NOOOOOO!! NOOOOOO!!"?
http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/03/15/look-look-shiny/
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No, you're the joke.
Ribo was the one making the claim that KSM, as an Arabic speaker, wouldn't use American slang. Ribo is the one who needs to provide evidence, not me.
It's a fact that KSM studied in the U.S., and was therefore exposed to American Slang. Throw in that he's a "Mastermind," and, apparently, those types tend to be pretty smart, and pick up things quickly.
Actually just the opposite a mastermind would want to keep his language and skills his own way, since he hates america and the people so much I doubt he would want to pick up slang. People that are disgusted by a group of people don't just assimilate to their way of life, they despise it and do everything opposite.
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My, he was a busy boy...
_Truck bombing the World Trade Center in 1993.
_The Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in the United States.
_Beheading American journalist Daniel Pearl in Pakistan in 2002.
_The plot to use shoe bombs to blow up two American planes, not just the trans-Atlantic flight on which would-be British shoe-bomber Richard Reid was caught in 2001.
_The "Filka Island Operation" that killed at least one American soldier in Kuwait in 2002.
_A Bali, Indonesia, nightclub bombing. In 2002, 202 were killed when two nightclubs there were bombed.
_A plot for a post-Sept. 11 round of skyscraper attacks targeting the Library Tower in Los Angeles, the Sears Tower in Chicago, the Plaza Bank building in Seattle and the Empire State Building in New York City.
_A plan to attack U.S. military ships and oil tankers in the Straits of Hormuz, the Straits of Gibraltar and the Port of Singapore.
_A plot to bomb the Panama Canal.
_A plot to assassinate a number of former American presidents, including Jimmy Carter.
_A plot to bomb suspension bridges in New York.
_A plan to use burning fuel trucks to take down the Sears Tower.
_A plot to obliterate London-area landmarks Heathrow Airport, Big Ben and Canary Wharf.
_A plan to attack nightclubs visited by British and American citizens in Thailand.
_A plot to attack the
New York Stock Exchange and "other financial targets" post-Sept. 11.
_A plot to use planes departing Saudi Arabia to destroy buildings in Elat,
Israel.
_A plan to attack U.S. embassies in Indonesia, Japan and Australia.
_A plot to attack Israeli embassies in India, Azerbaijan, Australia and the Philippines.
_A plan to destroy an Israeli El Al plane departing from Bangkok, Thailand.
_Sending "several mujahadeen" to Israel to survey potential targets.
_Bombing a beach resort in Mombasa, Kenya, in 2002.
_An almost simultaneous, failed attempt to hit an Israeli passenger jet using a surface-to-air missile after it took off from Mombasa.
_Plans to target American military bases and nightclubs visited by American troops in
South Korea.
_Plans to attack American and British sites as well as Jewish targets in Turkey.
_Plans to target nuclear power plants in the United States.
_A plot to attack
NATO headquarters in Brussels.
_The Bojinka Operation to take down 12 American planes, specifically monitoring a round-trip flight between Manila in the Philippines and Seoul, South Korea.
_A plot to assassinate then-
President Clinton during a visit to the Philippines.
_A plan to assassinate
Pope John Paul II during his visit to the Philippines in 1994.
_A plot to assassinate Pakistan's president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf.
_A plan to attack an oil company on Sumatra, Indonesia, that he said was owned by former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070315/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/terrorist_confession_list_2;_ylt=AuiW79t61k2rywbW4KbA9FSWwvIE
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Him doing all that is not really possible and any reasonable person can see that. Fact is that they needed some good news, so they pulled this asshole outta gitmo 5 years after he was caught and had him confess to almost everything. ::) No telling what this administration will pull out of their ass when they need positive news.
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did this guy get due process in our legal system?
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did this guy get due process in our legal system?
secret trial the media was not allowed to view, and he had no geneva convention rights, and no POW rights.
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secret trial the media was not allowed to view, and he had no geneva convention rights, and no POW rights.
was he apprehended in the USA?
you smell the fish with this confession?
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was he apprehended in the USA?
you smell the fish with this confession?
Captured in pakistan.
It was reported on BBC news on the 15th of March 2007, "Transcripts of his testimony were translated from Arabic and edited by the US defence department to remove sensitive intelligence material before release. It appeared, from a judge's question, that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed had made allegations of torture in US custody".
So we beat it out of him, then WE translated it to get the "A to Z" quote.
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Captured in pakistan.
It was reported on BBC news on the 15th of March 2007, "Transcripts of his testimony were translated from Arabic and edited by the US defence department to remove sensitive intelligence material before release. It appeared, from a judge's question, that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed had made allegations of torture in US custody".
So we beat it out of him, then WE translated it to get the "A to Z" quote.
you think this guy is a patsy?
so they brought him here and held him for all these years with out public trial?
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you think this guy is a patsy?
so they brought him here and held him for all these years with out public trial?
Oh, he's a f'king terrorist, absolutely. hang him high.
however, I think our kids' history books will teach that Bush not only rescued us from nasty arabs who were being greedy with their oil, but he solved all the cimes too! 31 outstanding crimes - unsolved - they can tie up nicely.
you'll have Tony Snow with a prideful grin saying "We've been saying all along that we'd solve these crimes, and we did!" Of course, when you kick the shit out of a guy for 4 years, then translate his confession for him, and edit out the parts you don't like, well, that's not a reliable source.
Bottom line is that he's a terrorist who
1) has served US interests well
2) many believe was British intelligence before entering school in US
3) gave a coerced confession we translated and censored
4) is getting blamed for every major event in the war on terror
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did this guy get due process in our legal system?
Sounds like it.
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Sounds like it.
What do you base this on?
he got a war tribunal without geneva rights.
now sure, he needs shot in the head for being a bad guy. But to defend the circus of a secret trial... wow...
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What do you base this on?
he got a war tribunal without geneva rights.
now sure, he needs shot in the head for being a bad guy. But to defend the circus of a secret trial... wow...
I base it on notice and an opportunity to be heard. That is basic due process.
And are you certain the Geneva Convention applies to this terrorist?
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And are you certain the Geneva Convention applies to this terrorist?
THe Geneva Convention applies to every man on earth.
BUSH decided that terrorists don't get it anymore.
No other nation, nor the UN, agrees with this.
But Bush said anyone picked up anywhere in the world, that he labels a terrorist, may be stripped of geneva.
So our rift would be this - does Bush have the right to defy geneva? If you believe so, there's no arguing with you.
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THe Geneva Convention applies to every man on earth.
BUSH decided that terrorists don't get it anymore.
No other nation, nor the UN, agrees with this.
But Bush said anyone picked up anywhere in the world, that he labels a terrorist, may be stripped of geneva.
So our rift would be this - does Bush have the right to defy geneva? If you believe so, there's no arguing with you.
Actually, the "rift" is twofold:
1. Your contention that Mohammed didn't receive due process. I indicated basic due process is notice and an opportunity to be heard, and that it sounds like Mohammed received basic due process.
2. The specific provisions of the Geneva Convention that indicates it "applies to every man on earth." Which specific provision of the Geneva Convention says this?
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LOL! "due process". He was *heard* by some unknown group, his testimony was coerced, and his response was translated and censored. I hope one day they don't pull you outta the lib arts program at your cozy hawaii office and give you the same 'due process'. "Being heard" by a person beating you and translating your confession, bravo.
Article 4 of third convention.
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did he have a judge a lawyer and a trial?
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did he have a judge a lawyer and a trial?
No.
He had a 'hearing'. It was closed to media or any humanitarian org. He said he was tortured for a long time. He then signed a translated copy of his coerced confession, and it was released to the media after a great deal of censoring.
I guess now we have to ask - would a white house who would do something as major as lie about WMD to start a 5+ year global war - even blink when it came to falsifying a terrorist's confession?
Frankly, I don't give them much credibility. Keeping the whole thing secret, then trusting the piece of paper with the laundry list confession of every unsolved crime in 15 years... well, it stinks.
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LOL. When you don't have the facts, just make them up. LOL. And where is the proof that Mohammed was tortured? ::)
Here is Article 4 of the Geneva Convention. You can make an argument that terrorists fall within this definition. I don't think they do. I doubt Article 4 "applies to every man on earth."
Article 4
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:
(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm
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What would we consider KSM?
a POW?
An accused criminal?
what exactly?
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LOL. When you don't have the facts, just make them up. LOL. And where is the proof that Mohammed was tortured? ::)
Here is Article 4 of the Geneva Convention. You can make an argument that terrorists falls within this definition. I don't think they do. I doubt Article 4 "applies to every man on earth."
Article 4
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:
(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
3. Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/91.htm
What part do they not fall under?
I can agree that perhaps they do not fall under item 2, but that doesn't mean that "coercing" confessions from people is right... We're supposed to be BETTER than they are... apparently we are not.
You say we don't know he was tortured or coerced, but hell, we don't know if he even said any of this shit... It could all be a lie.
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it's funny - we believe everything he says about the 31 terror attacks/plots.
but we don't believe what he said about being tortured.
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it's funny - we believe everything he says about the 31 terror attacks/plots.
but we don't believe what he said about being tortured.
If that doesn't smell like BS to some people they will keep eating feces all their lives and resign themselves to liking it.
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What would we consider KSM?
a POW?
An accused criminal?
what exactly?
A terrorist.
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What part do they not fall under?
I can agree that perhaps they do not fall under item 2, but that doesn't mean that "coercing" confessions from people is right... We're supposed to be BETTER than they are... apparently we are not.
You say we don't know he was tortured or coerced, but hell, we don't know if he even said any of this shit... It could all be a lie.
I don't think terrorists fall under any part of Article 4.
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i dont find this information too reliable; im sure hes a bad man whos done bad things, but it has been proven time and time again that a man whose been imprisoned and tortured for years will typically 'confess' to whatever crimes you want him to.
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I don't think terrorists fall under any part of Article 4.
I would disagree... but that's just me.
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A terrorist.
so a terrorist are neither a criminal or a POW? And therefore are not afforded certain rights of due process such as a public trial and a legal representation?
So if you are ever labeled a terrorist you have no way to prove you innocence fairly?
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so a terrorist are neither a criminal or a POW? And therefore are not afforded certain rights of due process such as a public trial and a legal representation?
So if you are ever labeled a terrorist you have no way to prove you innocence fairly?
What about Jose Padilla... a US citizen... because he's a "terrorist", he gets no due process?
That's a great way to make a police state... Welcome to the SS.
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so a terrorist are neither a criminal or a POW? And therefore are not afforded certain rights of due process such as a public trial and a legal representation?
So if you are ever labeled a terrorist you have no way to prove you innocence fairly?
We're talking about the Geneva Convention. There is a specific definition of a POW under the Geneva Convention and I don't think a terrorist falls under that definition.
This terrorist apparently did get basic due process. But I don't believe a terrorist is entitled to all the rights afforded American citizens.
If I'm ever labeled a "terrorist" I will be prosecuted in state or federal court, because I'm an American citizen. Remember the "American Taliban"? Forget his name. Timothy McVeigh? The Unabomber? Those are all American terrorists. They all got their due process.
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We're talking about the Geneva Convention. There is a specific definition of a POW under the Geneva Convention and I don't think a terrorist falls under that definition.
This terrorist apparently did get basic due process. But I don't believe a terrorist is entitled to all the rights afforded American citizens.
If I'm ever labeled a "terrorist" I will be prosecuted in state or federal court, because I'm an American citizen. Remember the "American Taliban"? Forget his name. Timothy McVeigh? The Unabomber? Those are all American terrorists. They all got their due process.
well here's a couple definitions of due process:
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
due process of law
–noun
the regular administration of the law, according to which no citizen may be denied his or her legal rights and all laws must conform to fundamental, accepted legal principles, as the right of the accused to confront his or her accusers.
Also called due process, due course of law.
[Origin: 1885–90]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
due process
n. An established course for judicial proceedings or other governmental activities designed to safeguard the legal rights of the individual.
WordNet - Cite This Source
due process
noun
(law) the administration of justice according to established rules and principles; based on the principle that a person cannot be deprived of life or liberty or property without appropriate legal procedures and safeguards
Now what was your idea of basic due process again?
Did KSM get these?
If you are non-citizen of the USA and are labeled a terrorist do you have any rights that involved legal representation?
What ever happened to "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"?
Does "all men" just mean American citizens?
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well here's a couple definitions of due process:
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
due process of law
–noun
the regular administration of the law, according to which no citizen may be denied his or her legal rights and all laws must conform to fundamental, accepted legal principles, as the right of the accused to confront his or her accusers.
Also called due process, due course of law.
[Origin: 1885–90]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
due process
n. An established course for judicial proceedings or other governmental activities designed to safeguard the legal rights of the individual.
WordNet - Cite This Source
due process
noun
(law) the administration of justice according to established rules and principles; based on the principle that a person cannot be deprived of life or liberty or property without appropriate legal procedures and safeguards
Now what was your idea of basic due process again?
Did KSM get these?
If you are non-citizen of the USA and are labeled a terrorist do you have any rights that involved legal representation?
What ever happened to "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights"?
Does "all men" just mean American citizens?
You're not going to start asking me the same questions over and over again are you? We've got enough of those around here. :) I said basic due process includes notice and an opportunity to be heard. As I've said about three times now, it appears as though this terrorist got basic due process. Did he get all of the rights afforded American citizens? I sure hope not. He's not a citizen and your first definition specifically mentions a "citizen."
And under your second definition, did we use judicial proceedings to safeguard the "legal rights" (whatever they are) of this terrorist? Apparently so. I don't know the details. If there was a panel of decision makers and a hearing of any kind, then he got his basic due process rights.
Feel free to ask me again. I'll refer you back to prior comments. :)
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You're not going to start asking me the same questions over and over again are you? We've got enough of those around here. :) I said basic due process includes notice and an opportunity to be heard. As I've said about three times now, it appears as though this terrorist got basic due process. Did he get all of the rights afforded American citizens? I sure hope not. He's not a citizen and your first definition specifically mentions a "citizen."
And under your second definition, did we use judicial proceedings to safeguard the "legal rights" (whatever they are) of this terrorist? Apparently so. I don't know the details. If there was a panel of decision makers and a hearing of any kind, then he got his basic due process rights.
Feel free to ask me again. I'll refer you back to prior comments. :)
When have i done that?
Plus you don't usually contradict yourself.
My point is this, what you describe as basic due process doesn't fall under under the definition of due process.
Also, we don't if his rights we safe guarded because his trial or hearing or what ever wasn't public.
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When have i done that?
Plus you don't usually contradict yourself.
My point is this, what you describe as basic due process doesn't fall under under the definition of due process.
Also, we don't if his rights we safe guarded because his trial or hearing or what ever wasn't public.
Here is another definition of due process:
"due process - A fundamental principle of fairness in all legal matters, both civil and criminal. The conduct of legal proceedings according to established rules and principles for the protection and enforcement of private rights, including notice and the right to a fair hearing before a tribunal with the power to decide the case."
https://www.legalexplorer.com/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Wisconsin_News_Reporters_Legal_Handbook&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=47140
Entirely consistent with what I called basic due process: notice and an opportunity to be heard (e.g., a hearing).
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Here is another definition of due process:
"due process - A fundamental principle of fairness in all legal matters, both civil and criminal. The conduct of legal proceedings according to established rules and principles for the protection and enforcement of private rights, including notice and the right to a fair hearing before a tribunal with the power to decide the case."
https://www.legalexplorer.com/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Wisconsin_News_Reporters_Legal_Handbook&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=47140
Entirely consistent with what I called basic due process: notice and an opportunity to be heard (e.g., a hearing).
but we don't know that do we?
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If I'm ever labeled a "terrorist" I will be prosecuted in state or federal court, because I'm an American citizen. Remember the "American Taliban"? Forget his name. Timothy McVeigh? The Unabomber? Those are all American terrorists. They all got their due process.
Jose Padilla. An American citizen.
He has not received due process.
Explain?
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but we don't know that do we?
Only if you believe the military is lying. Honestly, I have not read enough to know precisely what kind of hearing he received, which is why I said at the start of this thread that it appears as though he got his basic due process rights. I don't know all the facts.
I'm also not losing any sleep over this terrorist. I hope he hangs.
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Jose Padilla. An American citizen.
He has not received due process.
Explain?
??? You explain. You brought it up.
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??? You explain. You brought it up.
padilla is an american. captured on american soil. been held 5 years without charges.
He didn't do anything but allegedly plan an attack (and he is a halfwit patsy if there ever was one)
5 year, no charge. And if it can happen to one man legally, it can happen to 300 million legally.
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padilla is an american. captured on american soil. been held 5 years without charges.
He didn't do anything but allegedly plan an attack (and he is a halfwit patsy if there ever was one)
5 year, no charge. And if it can happen to one man legally, it can happen to 300 million legally.
O.K. An American was "captured" and held without charges. That is an outrage. I do not support it.
To say 300 million can be held "legally" without charges for five years is absurd. And it also has nothing to do with the foreign terrorist who admitted his role in 911.
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THe Geneva Convention applies to every man on earth.
BUSH decided that terrorists don't get it anymore.
No other nation, nor the UN, agrees with this.
But Bush said anyone picked up anywhere in the world, that he labels a terrorist, may be stripped of geneva.
So our rift would be this - does Bush have the right to defy geneva? If you believe so, there's no arguing with you.
Geneva convention DOES NOT apply to every man on earth. ever seen the back of a military ID card? Do you remember in Kosovo when the 2 Army privates were captured and we begged to have them listed as POWs but the enemy wouldn't do it?
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O.K. An American was "captured" and held without charges. That is an outrage. I do not support it.
Cool. We're in total agreement here.
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Padilla got screwed big time.
he should have won the Olympia in 1981.