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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: onlyme on October 12, 2006, 04:56:07 PM

Title: Brain Twister need help
Post by: onlyme on October 12, 2006, 04:56:07 PM
Okay this might not last to long but it has to do with the gym.  Okay three guys come into the gym and wanted to train for the day.  They each only have $10. They ask the guy how much for all three of them and he say $30.  They say great and handed the guy $10 each for the $30.  They go inside and start to train.  Well the manager comes out and recognizes the guys and asked how much they paid.  The first desk guy says $30 for all three.  He says well no they live here give them a deal.  Do it for $25 he says, then tell the guy to give them $5 back.  So he goes over and hands the guys $5.  They say here dude you can keep $2. 

At the beginning it cost the guys $10 each to train.  After the refund they each got back a dollar.  So it actually cost them just $9 each.  Now add the $2 they gave the front desk guy, that adds up to $29.  What happened to the other dollar?
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: MisterMagoo on October 12, 2006, 05:04:17 PM
add it up differently. don't look at it in terms of "how much they paid" and such, look at it in terms of where the actual money is.

at the end, the gym keeps $25, the guys have a dollar each, and the guy at the front desk has $2. thats 25 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 2 = 30. the problem is when you start trying to add up real money with "amount paid" and you get jumbled up.
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: onlyme on October 12, 2006, 11:27:29 PM
add it up differently. don't look at it in terms of "how much they paid" and such, look at it in terms of where the actual money is.

at the end, the gym keeps $25, the guys have a dollar each, and the guy at the front desk has $2. thats 25 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 2 = 30. the problem is when you start trying to add up real money with "amount paid" and you get jumbled up.

Yes but when you do it any other way it adds up to $29.  Why and where does it go.  All I know is each guy ended up paying $9 each and with the guy getting $2 it only adds up to $29.  Explain where it goes.
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: gordiano on October 12, 2006, 11:29:19 PM
It probably ended up in Shawn Ray's pocket.............
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: AVBG on October 12, 2006, 11:32:37 PM
Okay this might not last to long but it has to do with the gym.  Okay three guys come into the gym and wanted to train for the day.  They each only have $10. They ask the guy how much for all three of them and he say $30.  They say great and handed the guy $10 each for the $30.  They go inside and start to train.  Well the manager comes out and recognizes the guys and asked how much they paid.  The first desk guy says $30 for all three.  He says well no they live here give them a deal.  Do it for $25 he says, then tell the guy to give them $5 back.  So he goes over and hands the guys $5.  They say here dude you can keep $2. 

At the beginning it cost the guys $10 each to train.  After the refund they each got back a dollar.  So it actually cost them just $9 each.  Now add the $2 they gave the front desk guy, that adds up to $29.  What happened to the other dollar?

You ate it.. you greedy bastard  ;D
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: tommywishbone on October 13, 2006, 01:13:18 AM
That's one of my favorite old riddles. I actually tell it with 3 guys checking into a hotel...

It's semantics. There is no missing dollar. :) But if there was a missing dollar, I bet Lou Ferrigno has it.
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: Bigger Business on October 13, 2006, 01:20:10 AM
I didnt want to sleep tonight anyway  >:(
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: tweeter on October 13, 2006, 01:34:30 AM
Yes but when you do it any other way it adds up to $29.  Why and where does it go.  All I know is each guy ended up paying $9 each and with the guy getting $2 it only adds up to $29.  Explain where it goes.
The $2 that the guy at the front desk has is already included in the $9 that the three guys paid; the 3 missing dollars is in the pockets of the three guys.
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: Bigger Business on October 13, 2006, 01:36:18 AM
The $2 that the guy at the front desk has is already included in the $9 that the three guys paid; the 3 missing dollars is in the pockets of the three guys.

9 x 3 = 27 + 2 = 29   :o
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: jwb on October 13, 2006, 01:43:49 AM
think of it this way:

they start paying $10 each,

they then get back one third of $5 which is $1.67 each.

they decide to tip the guy $2 so they give back 1/3rd of $2 each which is 67 cents each so they now have $1 each.

so they end up with $1 each, the guy gets his $2 and the gym their $25
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: 240 is Back on October 13, 2006, 01:51:50 AM
Okay, so a guy needs a website, but he only has $300...
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: jwb on October 13, 2006, 01:52:16 AM
or,

they actually end up paying the gym one third of $25 = $8.33 each

they end up with $1 each so $9.33 is now accounted for out of the original $10.

the remaining 67 cents each goes to the kid

8.33
1.00
0.67
----
10.00 each
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: Bigger Business on October 13, 2006, 01:52:38 AM
Okay, so a guy needs a website, but he only has $300...

minus the $25 referral...
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: jwb on October 13, 2006, 02:04:45 AM
or,

the gym gets $25 total

the guys get $3 total

the kid gets $2 total

equals $30

okay now i'm being silly
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: onlyme on October 13, 2006, 02:12:13 AM
think of it this way:

they start paying $10 each,

they then get back one third of $5 which is $1.67 each.

they decide to tip the guy $2 so they give back 1/3rd of $2 each which is 67 cents each so they now have $1 each.

so they end up with $1 each, the guy gets his $2 and the gym their $25

That would work but it was done exactly as I said.  They each had a $10 bill.  And when the guy came back to give them somemoney back, he handed them a dollar each and he kept $2.  There was no change to give.
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: Bigger Business on October 13, 2006, 02:25:36 AM
or,

the gym gets $25 total

the guys get $3 total

the kid gets $2 total

equals $30

okay now i'm being silly

O forgot to mention they were training Shoulders and calves
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: rocket on October 13, 2006, 03:16:21 AM
O forgot to mention they were training Shoulders and calves

I'm reliably informed there was supersetting involved.

Seriously, what is the question in this thread onlyme, JWB explained it perfectly.
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: jwb on October 13, 2006, 03:20:15 AM
I'm reliably informed there was supersetting involved.

Seriously, what is the question in this thread onlyme, JWB explained it perfectly.
yeah what is the question? $25 for the workout, $2 for the kid, $3 for the guys.

you can't add it up from the end because of the sequence involved...
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: The Luke on October 13, 2006, 03:38:12 AM
Onlyme,

It's a logical fallacy brain twister... developing a specific train of thought, then depending on the natural unwillingness of people to abandon/re-evaluate the initially developed model when back-engineering the problem.

Each guy pays $10... that's $30 between them.

The gym owner returns $5... now each guy has payed 25/3 dollars (that's $8.33 for a total of $25 between them).

Each guy now contributes 2/3 ($0.66) of a dollar towards the guys tip.


Now add it up properly:

Each guy payed $8.33 to work out... that's a total of $25
Each guy contributed $0.66 towards the desk clerks tip.... that's $2 between them for a total of $27.

So, as a group the guys have payed $25 towards working out, $2 towards the tip... making a total of $27 between them. The $27 payed out, plus the net $3 the gym refunded them (refund minus the tip) equals the $30 originally payed out.

Paying out $27 ($25 plus $2 tip) is the same as paying out $30 and getting $3 back (a dollar each refund).

The total payed out ($30) is equal to:
The total amount each payed (cost plus tip) combined with the refund...
NOT
The total amount each payed plus the tip... that way you're just adding the total payed ($25 plus $2) and the tip. Adding the tip twice to $25 will always give you $29 no matter which way you add it up.

The wording of the brain teaser and the use of an intermediary to confuse the transaction encourages people to think in terms of adding the net cost (cost plus tip) to the tip... getting $29. You should add the net cost (cost plus tip) to the refund ($3)... thereby arriving at the amount originally handed over ($30).


Hope this helps,
The Luke
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: jwb on October 13, 2006, 03:42:23 AM
Onlyme,

It's a logical fallacy brain twister... developing a specific train of thought, then depending on the natural unwillingness of people to abandon/re-evaluate the initially developed model when back-engineering the problem.

Each guy pays $10... that's $30 between them.

The gym owner returns $5... now each guy has payed 25/3 dollars (that's $8.33 for a total of $25 between them).

Each guy now contributes 2/3 ($0.66) of a dollar towards the guys tip.


Now add it up properly:

Each guy payed $8.33 to work out... that's a total of $25
Each guy contributed $0.66 towards the desk clerks tip.... that's $2 between them for a total of $27.

So, as a group the guys have payed $25 towards working out, $2 towards the tip... making a total of $27 between them. The $27 payed out, plus the net $3 the gym refunded them (refund minus the tip) equals the $30 originally payed out.

Paying out $27 ($25 plus $2 tip) is the same as paying out $30 and getting $3 back (a dollar each refund).

The total payed out ($30) is equal to:
The total amount each payed (cost plus tip) combined with the refund...
NOT
The total amount each payed plus the tip... that way you're just adding the total payed ($25 plus $2) and the tip. Adding the tip twice to $25 will always give you $29 no matter which way you add it up.

The wording of the brain teaser and the use of an intermediary to confuse the transaction encourages people to think in terms of adding the net cost (cost plus tip) to the tip... getting $29. You should add the net cost (cost plus tip) to the refund ($3)... thereby arriving at the amount originally handed over ($30).


Hope this helps,
The Luke
exactly you were double counting the $2 tip
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: Jr. Yates on October 13, 2006, 12:22:46 PM
It probably ended up in Shawn Ray's pocket.............
hahahaha!  hahahahaha!
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: HICKSON on October 13, 2006, 12:30:06 PM
It's semantics. There is no missing dollar. :) But if there was a missing dollar, I bet Lou Ferrigno has it.


HAHAHAHA!!
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: MisterMagoo on October 13, 2006, 12:42:30 PM
Yes but when you do it any other way it adds up to $29.  Why and where does it go.  All I know is each guy ended up paying $9 each and with the guy getting $2 it only adds up to $29.  Explain where it goes.

it doesn't go anywhere because any other addition isn't actually adding up money. it's multiplying "net sum paid" instead of actual dollars trading hands. it's just a little math trick. you add up the wrong numbers.

you're right that they only paid $27, but the thing is that the $2 the guy got is a part of that $27. that's $25 to the desk and $2 to the guy, add up the $3 the lifters kept and that's $30.

what you're doing is adding up the $2 the one guy kept twice and ignoring the $3 refund entirely. the guys paid $27 and they kept $3. that's $30 by my count.
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: HICKSON on October 13, 2006, 12:53:27 PM
God damn people......  >:(  >:(  >:(

The $2 is irrelevant! Its a tip that is divided between the 3 men.

 Thats the answer..
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: efirkey on October 13, 2006, 01:00:52 PM
or,

they actually end up paying the gym one third of $25 = $8.33 each

they end up with $1 each so $9.33 is now accounted for out of the original $10.

the remaining 67 cents each goes to the kid

8.33
1.00
0.67
----
10.00 each

Yeah, they each end up paying $9.33 not $9
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: RHINO290 on October 13, 2006, 01:01:35 PM
Okay this might not last to long but it has to do with the gym.  Okay three guys come into the gym and wanted to train for the day.  They each only have $10. They ask the guy how much for all three of them and he say $30.  They say great and handed the guy $10 each for the $30.  They go inside and start to train.  Well the manager comes out and recognizes the guys and asked how much they paid.  The first desk guy says $30 for all three.  He says well no they live here give them a deal.  Do it for $25 he says, then tell the guy to give them $5 back.  So he goes over and hands the guys $5.  They say here dude you can keep $2. 

At the beginning it cost the guys $10 each to train.  After the refund they each got back a dollar.  So it actually cost them just $9 each.  Now add the $2 they gave the front desk guy, that adds up to $29.  What happened to the other dollar?

There is no other $1.00

They handed $2 back, making it $3. $1.00 dollar each.
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: haider on October 13, 2006, 01:02:04 PM
LOL, the story messes up the line of thought but when u actually think abt it it goes like this:

The gym gets $30
They give back $5
This $5 amount gets redistributed between the 4 guys.
The other $25 dollars is what the gym has.
25 + 5 = 30  ;)
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: G o a t b o y on October 13, 2006, 01:04:53 PM
That would work but it was done exactly as I said.  They each had a $10 bill.  And when the guy came back to give them somemoney back, he handed them a dollar each and he kept $2.  There was no change to give.

I don't understand why you're having such difficulty with this...  the guys paid $27 ($25 to the gym and $2 to the kid), and have three dollars in their pockets.  27+3=30

You're making your mistake when you try to add the $2 to the $27 ($9x3)...  the $2 is already included in the $27 (or the $9).
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: onlyme on October 13, 2006, 01:17:17 PM
LOL, the story messes up the line of thought but when u actually think abt it it goes like this:

The gym gets $30
They give back $5
This $5 amount gets redistributed between the 4 guys.
The other $25 dollars is what the gym has.
25 + 5 = 30  ;)

But when you takie actual money each guy paid ($9) that equals $27.  Now add the $2 the guy kept and it only adds up to $29.  Now why is that.  I see it done the other way but why can't it add up this way. :-\
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: HICKSON on October 13, 2006, 01:18:28 PM
But when you takie actual money each guy paid ($9) that equals $27.  Now add the $2 the guy kept and it only adds up to $29.  Now why is that.  I see it done the other way but why can't it add up this way. :-\

Quit deep-draggin the bong then...
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: haider on October 13, 2006, 01:39:13 PM
But when you takie actual money each guy paid ($9) that equals $27.  Now add the $2 the guy kept and it only adds up to $29.  Now why is that.  I see it done the other way but why can't it add up this way. :-\
hahah, dude that was exactly what I thought about after I posted my explanation.

You see when you think about it the way I explained, you're starting out with the gym having the 30 bucks. But if you go the other way around, you have to remember that the guys are starting out with a total of 30 dollars. If $27 is what they paid (25 to the gym, 2 to the kid) then the rest of the 3 bucks are in their pockets(the 3 dollars they already had).
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: doison on October 13, 2006, 02:27:11 PM
wow....I can't understand how you guys are getting $29. 
10x3 is 30
It was only 25, so they were given 5 back.
They each kept 1 (3), and gave 2.  So, that's 5 total, plus the 25 the gym kept = 30. 

I'm trying to make it total 29, and I can't figure out how to do it.

I was always horrible at math, so maybe you have to know how to do real math to get it wrong?
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: haider on October 13, 2006, 02:29:47 PM
wow....I can't understand how you guys are getting $29. 
10x3 is 30
It was only 25, so they were given 5 back.
They each kept 1 (3), and gave 2.  So, that's 5 total, plus the 25 the gym kept = 30. 

I'm trying to make it total 29, and I can't figure out how to do it.

I was always horrible at math, so maybe you have to know how to do real math to get it wrong?
The story does the bad math for you by adding the tip to the 27 dollars paid(=$29), when infact the tip is part of the $27 paid, with the rest of the 3 bucks in their pockets.
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: Man of Steel on October 13, 2006, 02:36:50 PM
I think the real question is why those 3 dumbfvcks paid $30 for a single workout?
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: thrain on October 13, 2006, 02:39:23 PM
You see alot of quantative problems like this in b-school and especially on the GMAT exam. BTW, you should repost this using proper names instead of repeatly using pronouns (him/he).
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: sgt. d on October 13, 2006, 02:59:34 PM
The same guy that didnt have the pdi shirts delieverd on time has the rest of the money.
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: onlyme on October 13, 2006, 05:36:31 PM
You see alot of quantative problems like this in b-school and especially on the GMAT exam. BTW, you should repost this using proper names instead of repeatly using pronouns (him/he).

What the fuck are you talking about.  I can't figure out where a dollar went and you are giving me all these english lessons. ;D

The same guy that didnt have the pdi shirts delieverd on time has the rest of the money.

Now that was funny
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: jwb on October 13, 2006, 06:34:08 PM
What the f**k are you talking about.  I can't figure out where a dollar went and you are giving me all these english lessons. ;D

Now that was funny
big man listen carefully and stop thinking too much.

the guys give the gym $30, they get back $5, so the gym gets $25 between the 3 guys. they give the kid $2 and have $3 left over between them - ie. $1 EACH...
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: G o a t b o y on October 13, 2006, 06:52:34 PM
But when you takie actual money each guy paid ($9) that equals $27.  Now add the $2 the guy kept and it only adds up to $29.  Now why is that.  I see it done the other way but why can't it add up this way. :-\


I don't understand why you're having such difficulty with this...  the guys paid $27 ($25 to the gym and $2 to the kid), and have three dollars in their pockets.  27+3=30

You're making your mistake when you try to add the $2 to the $27 ($9x3)...  the $2 is already included in the $27 (or the $9).
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: Rottmag on October 13, 2006, 06:52:56 PM
I'm going back to picking lint out of my ass-crack.

A lot more enjoyable than this incongruous puzzle.

 :D
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: onlyme on October 13, 2006, 10:36:43 PM
big man listen carefully and stop thinking too much.

the guys give the gym $30, they get back $5, so the gym gets $25 between the 3 guys. they give the kid $2 and have $3 left over between them - ie. $1 EACH...

I know how it works out that way but why doesn't it this way.  The guys each paid $10 each.  If they each get back a dollar then in reality they only paid $9 each to train which equals $27 ($9 x 3=$27).  Right?  And then the kid kept $2.  That equals only $29.
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: haider on October 13, 2006, 10:38:40 PM
yes, onlyme is right.
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: haider on October 13, 2006, 11:03:50 PM
Let me be the first one to say this, Onlyme owned us all in this thread.  >:(
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: jwb on October 13, 2006, 11:44:38 PM
I know how it works out that way but why doesn't it this way.  The guys each paid $10 each.  If they each get back a dollar then in reality they only paid $9 each to train which equals $27 ($9 x 3=$27).  Right?  And then the kid kept $2.  That equals only $29.
No man the $9 INCLUDES the $2 tip so they only really pay $8.33 to the gym to train and 67cents each to the kid. The $3 left is their change - ie. a buck each...
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: onlyme on October 14, 2006, 11:36:59 AM
No man the $9 INCLUDES the $2 tip so they only really pay $8.33 to the gym to train and 67cents each to the kid. The $3 left is their change - ie. a buck each...

No that is not right.  There is no change in this transaction. Only paper money.  The guys gave the gym 3 $10 bills.  The gym gave the guys back 3 $1 bills and the kid kept 2 $1 bills.  All even money no change or division. 
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: Blockhead on October 14, 2006, 11:49:32 AM
That's one of my favorite old riddles. I actually tell it with 3 guys checking into a hotel...

It's semantics. There is no missing dollar. :) But if there was a missing dollar, I bet Lou Ferrigno has it.
If not him some greedy Joo who owns BB publications...
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: IFBBwannaB on October 14, 2006, 11:52:35 AM
No that is not right.  There is no change in this transaction. Only paper money.  The guys gave the gym 3 $10 bills.  The gym gave the guys back 3 $1 bills and the kid kept 2 $1 bills.  All even money no change or division. 

This "riddle" was posted at another board.Pretty easy.
Two ways of looking at it:

1.They each give 10$,the cashier take 25$ and put it in the cash register.
Now he got 5$ left,so he gives 1$ each and keeps 2$.
3X10=30 , 30-25=5 , 3X1+2X1=5. 30-5=25.

2.They see the sign and each pay 9$.The cashier puts 25$ into the register and got 2$ left.
Since he cant divide it between them he keeps it.
9X3=27 , 2X1=2 ,27-2=25.

Better now?
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: OAK on October 14, 2006, 12:34:12 PM
The problem is thinking that the numbers should total $30.

Imagine that instead of $25 the actual membership cost is $10.

The front desk guy keeps $2 and gives back $18.  Then the guys paid $12, add the front desks guys money and you get $14.  Does it then make sense to ask where the missing $16 is.
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: The Luke on October 14, 2006, 03:02:03 PM
I know how it works out that way but why doesn't it this way.  The guys each paid $10 each.  If they each get back a dollar then in reality they only paid $9 each to train which equals $27 ($9 x 3=$27).  Right?  And then the kid kept $2.  That equals only $29.

Wrong...
It still adds up to $30 even if you do it this way.

Each guy paid $10 and got back a buck. So overall each guy paid $9.
Three $9 equals $27... but that $27 INCLUDES the $2 tip (the GUYS paid the tip, not the gym)... the $27 plus the $3 the gym returned equals the original $30.

Dude, trust me... I'm  a physicist who enjoys brainteasers.

The Luke
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: jwb on October 14, 2006, 04:36:51 PM
No that is not right.  There is no change in this transaction. Only paper money.  The guys gave the gym 3 $10 bills.  The gym gave the guys back 3 $1 bills and the kid kept 2 $1 bills.  All even money no change or division. 
keith you just answered it for yourself dude... they give the gym 3 tens, get back 5 ones and give the kid 2 ones. 30-5=25+2 for the tip and $3 left over...

they don't pay $9 to train at all they pay $25 between them which is $8.33 to train
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: haider on October 14, 2006, 04:45:28 PM
For the second time... Onlyme is messing with you guys.

Double Ownage.
Title: Re: Brain Twister need help
Post by: chris_mason on October 14, 2006, 06:27:42 PM
Ok, each guy gives $10.  Let's say that is all they had in their wallet.  They had nothing left when they went in to train.  The guy gives them back $5 in singles.  They each keep $1 and give him a $2 tip.  That means they each have $1 left in their wallet and their net cost was $9 each.  $9 times 3 equals $27 plus the $1 x 3 = $3 left in their wallets which accounts for the original $30.

When you posed the teaser you state they spent $9 each PLUS the $2 tip and this adds up to only $29 but that is not what occurred.  As already stated by others the $9 each x 3 = $27 includes the $2 tip they doled out.  The teaser essentially is just poor math as it double dips the tip in an attempt to fool the reader.  What really happened in the money trail was $32 was given to the gym or the guy (outgo on the trainees' part) and $5 was returned to them (incoming) which is a net flow of $27 or $9 each.