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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: AlliedPowers on October 18, 2006, 09:29:23 AM
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Government Targets American Bloggers As Enemy Propagandists
Military, Homeland Security, Bush White House strategy sharpen knives against anyone critical of the "war on terror"
Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | October 17 2006
Recent scientific polls that show around 84% don't believe the government's explanation behind 9/11 and others confirming the fact that support for the war in Iraq is at an all time low have led the Bush administration to sharpen their knives against the new breed of perceived "enemy propagandists," bloggers, journalists and online activists who dissent against the "war on terror."
As Raw Story reports, CENTCOM announced earlier this year that a team of employees would be "[engaging] bloggers who are posting inaccurate or untrue information, as well as bloggers who are posting incomplete information."
So when you're wasting your time arguing the finer points of the collapse of Building 7 or the quagmire in Iraq with someone who seems unable to grasp basic principles, your foe could well be sat behind a plush U.S. government desk in a uniform.
CENTCOM is infiltrating blogs and message boards to ensure people, "have the opportunity to read positive stories,"presumably about how Iraq is a wonderful liberated democracy and the war on terror really is about protecting Americans.
The CENTCOM website features a useful section, "What Extremists Are Saying," which provides a full catalogue and showcases the diatribes of US government agents Abu Mus’ab al-Zarqawi, Ayman al-Zawahiri and their sympathizers - rhetoric that CENTCOM hopes surfers will seek out in order for them to grasp a true understanding for the necessity of bombing the shit out of another broken backed defenseless country in the name of "freedom."
The jaw-dropping hypocrisy of a regime and its military attack arm that has engaged in the most gargantuan of deceit and propaganda purges against the American people then pointing the finger at inquisitive bloggers for "aiding the enemy," is alarming to behold.
President George W. Bush looks up as he signs the Military Commissions Act of 2006 in the East Room of the White House in Washington. The bill effectively nullifies nine of the first ten amendments to the U.S. constitution and ends the "great experiment" known as The United States of America.
The White House has made it perfectly clear that it will target American citizens for propagating information harmful to the interests of the U.S. government and classify them as enemy combatants. This is codified in sub-section 27 of section 950v. of the Military Commissions Act of 2006.
Bush's own strategy document for "winning the war on terror" identifies "conspiracy theorists," meaning anyone who exposes government corruption and lies about major domestic and world events, as "terrorists recruiters," and vows to eliminate their influence in society.
In a speech given Monday, Homeland Security director Michael Chertoff identified the web as a "terror training camp," through which "disaffected people living in the United States" are developing "radical ideologies and potentially violent skills."
Chertoff has pledged to dispatch Homeland Security agents to local police departments in order to aid in the apprehension of domestic terrorists who use the Internet as a political tool.
How long before influential online writers, bloggers and journalists like Greg Palast, who was charged with aiding the terrorists when filming "critical U.S. infrastructure," are arbitrarily gunned down on the street like in Russia or the newly "free" Iraq?
The Bush administration's media mouthpieces have also been mobilized to stereotype any kind of critical thinking as "giving aid and comfort to the enemy," a recent case in point beingFox News' Bill O'Reilly calling for the FBI to investigate the 9/11 Scholars organization for possible ties to terrorist organizations.
Will we witness a "night of the long knives" to silence any and all dissent as the official dictatorship is announced or does the chilling effect of simply threatening to treat bloggers and journalists as terrorists go far enough to intimidate enough people to keep their mouths shut?
A combination of this chilling effect and moves to license websites, impose "hate speech" restrictions and kill off the old internet in favor of a government regulated, China-style "Internet 2" are the tools in the arsenal of the neo-fascists who wish to continue their domestic and imperial bloodletting under the mandated consensus of total obedience.
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Sounds scary...... got any other sources of this story besides where you got it from?
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Today, 135 years to the day after the last American President (Ulysses S. Grant) suspended habeas corpus, President Bush signed into law the Military Commissions Act of 2006. At its worst, the legislation allows President Bush or Donald Rumsfeld to declare anyone — US citizen or not — an enemy combatant, lock them up and throw away the key without a chance to prove their innocence in a court of law. In other words, every thing the Founding Fathers fought the British empire to free themselves of was reversed and nullified with the stroke of a pen, all under the guise of the War on Terror.
Jonathan Turley joined Keith to talk about the law that Senator Feingold said would be seen as "a stain on our nation's history."
Turley: "People have no idea how significant this is. Really a time of shame this is for the American system.—The strange thing is that we have become sort of constitutional couch potatoes. The Congress just gave the President despotic powers and you could hear the yawn across the country as people turned to Dancing With the Stars. It's otherworldly..People clearly don't realize what a fundamental change it is about who we are as a country. What happened today changed us. And I'm not too sure we're gonna change back anytime soon."
Olbermann: The Day Habeas Corpus Died
MSNBC
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military tribunals are necessary
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The Act has been denounced by critics who assert that its wording authorizes the permanent detention and torture (as defined by the Geneva Conventions) of anyone - including American citizens - based solely on the decision of the President.
This is not good. Although it's intentions are set up to help fight terrorism, we are forgoing our own set judicial system when it comes to American Citizens.
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military tribunals are necessary
Cav,
For some IED-planting scumbags in iraq, hell yes! Try em and hang em!
But for example, kids who build websites asking why WTC building 7 fell - do they deserve to be waterboarded or locked up? Technically, this law means Bush can choose anyone in the US and have that person imprisoned and tortured. Scary stuff.
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Government Targets American Bloggers As Enemy Propagandists
Military, Homeland Security, Bush White House strategy sharpen knives against anyone critical of the "war on terror"
Paul Joseph Watson/Prison Planet.com | October 17 2006
Recent scientific polls that show around 84% don't believe the government's explanation behind 9/11 and others confirming the fact that support for the war in Iraq is at an all time low have led the Bush administration to sharpen their knives against the new breed of perceived "enemy propagandists," bloggers, journalists and online activists who dissent against the "war on terror."
As Raw Story reports, CENTCOM announced earlier this year that a team of employees would be "[engaging] bloggers who are posting inaccurate or untrue information, as well as bloggers who are posting incomplete information."
So when you're wasting your time arguing the finer points of the collapse of Building 7 or the quagmire in Iraq with someone who seems unable to grasp basic principles, your foe could well be sat behind a plush U.S. government desk in a uniform.
CENTCOM is infiltrating blogs and message boards to ensure people, "have the opportunity to read positive stories,"presumably about how Iraq is a wonderful liberated democracy and the war on terror really is about protecting Americans.
The CENTCOM website features a useful section, "What Extremists Are Saying," which provides a full catalogue and showcases the diatribes of US government agents Abu Mus’ab al-Zarqawi, Ayman al-Zawahiri and their sympathizers - rhetoric that CENTCOM hopes surfers will seek out in order for them to grasp a true understanding for the necessity of bombing the shit out of another broken backed defenseless country in the name of "freedom."
The jaw-dropping hypocrisy of a regime and its military attack arm that has engaged in the most gargantuan of deceit and propaganda purges against the American people then pointing the finger at inquisitive bloggers for "aiding the enemy," is alarming to behold.
President George W. Bush looks up as he signs the Military Commissions Act of 2006 in the East Room of the White House in Washington. The bill effectively nullifies nine of the first ten amendments to the U.S. constitution and ends the "great experiment" known as The United States of America.
The White House has made it perfectly clear that it will target American citizens for propagating information harmful to the interests of the U.S. government and classify them as enemy combatants. This is codified in sub-section 27 of section 950v. of the Military Commissions Act of 2006.
Bush's own strategy document for "winning the war on terror" identifies "conspiracy theorists," meaning anyone who exposes government corruption and lies about major domestic and world events, as "terrorists recruiters," and vows to eliminate their influence in society.
In a speech given Monday, Homeland Security director Michael Chertoff identified the web as a "terror training camp," through which "disaffected people living in the United States" are developing "radical ideologies and potentially violent skills."
Chertoff has pledged to dispatch Homeland Security agents to local police departments in order to aid in the apprehension of domestic terrorists who use the Internet as a political tool.
How long before influential online writers, bloggers and journalists like Greg Palast, who was charged with aiding the terrorists when filming "critical U.S. infrastructure," are arbitrarily gunned down on the street like in Russia or the newly "free" Iraq?
The Bush administration's media mouthpieces have also been mobilized to stereotype any kind of critical thinking as "giving aid and comfort to the enemy," a recent case in point beingFox News' Bill O'Reilly calling for the FBI to investigate the 9/11 Scholars organization for possible ties to terrorist organizations.
Will we witness a "night of the long knives" to silence any and all dissent as the official dictatorship is announced or does the chilling effect of simply threatening to treat bloggers and journalists as terrorists go far enough to intimidate enough people to keep their mouths shut?
A combination of this chilling effect and moves to license websites, impose "hate speech" restrictions and kill off the old internet in favor of a government regulated, China-style "Internet 2" are the tools in the arsenal of the neo-fascists who wish to continue their domestic and imperial bloodletting under the mandated consensus of total obedience.
This is scary as all fuck. Not a huge leap away from snatching up people in the middle of the night from a list of bloggers, conspiracy theorists, and message board members targeted for providing material support to terrorists. Is it material support of terrorists????,... noooo... do they have to prove that anymore.... No.... :-[
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Yeah, and i bet this whole thing will be chalked up by the brainwashed drones and neccesary for the war on terrorism and we'll get call traitors for opposing it.
I was always proud that i lived in a country where things like this couldn't happen to it's citizens; that we were protected by laws and a judicial system that guaranteed us a fair trial and prevented imprisonment without due process.
I am very sad.
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Yeah, and i bet this whole thing will be chalked up by the brainwashed drones and neccesary for the war on terrorism and we'll get call traitors for opposing it.
I was always proud that i lived in a country where things like this couldn't happen to it's citizens; that we were protected by laws and a judicial system that guaranteed us a fair trial and prevented imprisonment without due process.
I am very sad.
Me too, meeee toooo....
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President George W. Bush looks up as he signs the Military Commissions Act of 2006 in the East Room of the White House in Washington. The bill effectively nullifies nine of the first ten amendments to the U.S. constitution and ends the "great experiment" known as The United States of America.
This is an absolute croc. I read the bill. It doesn't do any such thing. 240 and others are still free to post conspiracy nonsense till the cows come home. He and others will not have to worry about a military commission unless they are:
`(i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces); or
`(ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:2:./temp/~c109r9HPxa:e455:
This claim that the Act targets internet bloggers is preposterous.
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This is an absolute croc. I read the bill. It doesn't do any such thing. 240 and others are still free to post conspiracy nonsense till the cows come home. He and others will not have to worry about a military commission unless they are:
`(i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces); or
`(ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:2:./temp/~c109r9HPxa:e455:
This claim that the Act targets internet bloggers is preposterous.
what worries me is a US Citizen who is accused by the President or his advisors, military, CIA etc.. through the president is excluded from our justice system and can be subject to toture, detainment for a unspecified lenght of time.
BB, what would happen if you were wrongfully accused and detained for 14 months and didn't have any legal recourse? That's being a US citizen used to be about. We were always protected by the LAW. Now we are not entirely protected by the law.
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`(i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces); or
`(ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:2:./temp/~c109r9HPxa:e455:
Maybe you need to read that again. The accusations flying at bloggers and conspiracy theorists IS IS IS IS that they are supporting terrorists. They CAN find themselves on a list of names be gathered up as enemy combatants. No lawyers to argue you're not supporting terrorism. We're in a war these people have determined to be pretty much indefinite... If this doesn't pretty much stomp the shit out of much of the constitution, I'm curious to know what you're actually waiting for? The president to call a press conference and hold a public burning of the constitution? You don't work for Centcom public affairs do you ;D
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what worries me is a US Citizen who is accused by the President or his advisors, military, CIA etc.. through the president is excluded from our justice system and can be subject to toture, detainment for a unspecified lenght of time.
BB, what would happen if you were wrongfully accused and detained for 14 months and didn't have any legal recourse? That's being a US citizen used to be about. We were always protected by the LAW. Now we are not entirely protected by the law.
Well said... Better than my flaming :P
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Jefferson said along time ago; "When people fear the government, their is tyranny, when the government fears the people, their is liberty" couldn't be more appropriate now.
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what worries me is a US Citizen who is accused by the President or his advisors, military, CIA etc.. through the president is excluded from our justice system and can be subject to toture, detainment for a unspecified lenght of time.
BB, what would happen if you were wrongfully accused and detained for 14 months and didn't have any legal recourse? That's being a US citizen used to be about. We were always protected by the LAW. Now we are not entirely protected by the law.
Ozmo I am always concerned about how much power we give the government to invade our private lives. But the Military Commission Act doesn't affect me at all. The military cannot detain me for 14 months, unless I decide to join Al Qaeda. Yes we should be concerned about protecting individual liberties, but claiming this Act will affect you and me, or internet bloggers, is just propaganda.
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Maybe you need to read that again. The accusations flying at bloggers and conspiracy theorists IS IS IS IS that they are supporting terrorists. They CAN find themselves on a list of names be gathered up as enemy combatants. No lawyers to argue you're not supporting terrorism. We're in a war these people have determined to be pretty much indefinite... If this doesn't pretty much stomp the shit out of much of the constitution, I'm curious to know what you're actually waiting for? The president to call a press conference and hold a public burning of the constitution? You don't work for Centcom public affairs do you ;D
No, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night . . . .
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Ozmo I am always concerned about how much power we give the government to invade our private lives. But the Military Commission Act doesn't affect me at all. The military cannot detain me for 14 months, unless I decide to join Al Qaeda. Yes we should be concerned about protecting individual liberties, but claiming this Act will affect you and me, or internet bloggers, is just propaganda.
Like You said We used to be protected.....By changing the Genovia Convention puts You and I in that same 14 months of dentention. That's bullshit, without proof of said crime. You call that Freedom?
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Ozmo I am always concerned about how much power we give the government to invade our private lives. But the Military Commission Act doesn't affect me at all. The military cannot detain me for 14 months, unless I decide to join Al Qaeda. Yes we should be concerned about protecting individual liberties, but claiming this Act will affect you and me, or internet bloggers, is just propaganda.
that's exactly the problem (in bold), Do you get a membership card for joining Al Queda? Is your name added to the Al Queda master list? Do you get a tatoo? Do you get a Al Queda starter kit int he mail? How do you tell if some is part or not part of Al Queda?
Based on suspicion only the government can determine you have "anywhere from slight to extreme invovlement" in Al Queda and detain and torture you with out due process. That's the problem.
What if there is some Blogger who is beggining to create quite a stir with his or her anti war rants? What if that blogger is actually beggining to affect public opinon about the war? Then the president at his/her descresion can "just believe" that person has ties to Al Queda and detain and imprison that person indefinatly.
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Ozmo I am always concerned about how much power we give the government to invade our private lives. But the Military Commission Act doesn't affect me at all. The military cannot detain me for 14 months, unless I decide to join Al Qaeda. Yes we should be concerned about protecting individual liberties, but claiming this Act will affect you and me, or internet bloggers, is just propaganda.
You should probably, every once in awhile, consider looking at the larger picture. If all any of us were doing with this accusation was looking at the Military commission act, I'd probably agree with you... But it takes on a whole new meaning when your looking at the act, next to Bush and Chertof's statements. I mean they're being pretty direct in their accusation that these people are aiding the enemy.
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that's exactly the problem (in bold), Do you get a membership card for joining Al Queda? Is your name added to the Al Queda master list? Do you get a tatoo? Do you get a Al Queda starter kit int he mail? How do you tell if some is part or not part of Al Queda?
Based on suspicion only the government can determine you have "anywhere from slight to extreme invovlement" in Al Queda and detain and torture you with out due process. That's the problem.
What if there is some Blogger who is beggining to create quite a stir with his or her anti war rants? What if that blogger is actually beggining to affect public opinon about the war? Then the president at his/her descresion can "just believe" that person has ties to Al Queda and detain and imprison that person indefinatly.
The Act applies to aliens, and "The term `alien' means a person who is not a citizen of the United States." This Act will not affect us.
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The Act applies to aliens, and "The term `alien' means a person who is not a citizen of the United States." This Act will not affect us.
I may mistaken but here's what WIk says about it:
Section 948a of S.3930.ENR [the version passed by both the House and Senate] defines an "unlawful enemy combatant" as:
`(i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces); or
`(ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense.
This definition does not exclude American citizens. Prior to the enactment, the phrase "unlawful enemy combatant" was applied by the Bush administration to at least 3 American citizens. See John Walker Lindh, José Padilla, Yaser Hamdi
A "competent tribunal" is defined in the US Army field Manual. section 27-10, for the purpose of determining whether a person is or is not entitled to prisoner-of-war status and consists of a board of not less than three officers. It is also a term defined in Article five of the third Geneva Convention. [2]
Section 948c states, "Any alien unlawful enemy combatant is subject to trial by military commission under this chapter" - with "alien" defined in Section 948a(3) as "a person who is not a citizen of the United States".
The Act does not specify any provisions for trying unlawful enemy combatants who may be American citizens. There is disagreement over whether the Act's provisions could be applied to them as well - since Section 948c does not exclude the possibility. [citation needed]
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I may mistaken but here's what WIk says about it:
From your post:
Section 948c states, "Any alien unlawful enemy combatant is subject to trial by military commission under this chapter" - with "alien" defined in Section 948a(3) as "a person who is not a citizen of the United States".
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From your post:
Section 948c states, "Any alien unlawful enemy combatant is subject to trial by military commission under this chapter" - with "alien" defined in Section 948a(3) as "a person who is not a citizen of the United States".
I know that, but we have done this to american citizens.
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Great! so the constitution is still hanging by an unraveling thread :-\ You can be declared an enemy combatant and if you're a citizen, you can have a lawyer who can argue your case with the military while the military sits back and laughs it's ass off at the lawyer... Gee better than being an alien and not having a useless lawyer at all.
"Interpretation at the Discretion of the White House"
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6167856
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From your post:
Section 948c states, "Any alien unlawful enemy combatant is subject to trial by military commission under this chapter" - with "alien" defined in Section 948a(3) as "a person who is not a citizen of the United States".
You're again chosing to look at one thing and ignore the larger picture.
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You're again chosing to look at one thing and ignore the larger picture.
No I'm not. I'm reading and interpreting the Act. It doesn't apply to U.S. citizens. There are times when we should be concerned about a loss of freedoms, like warrantless wiretaps, but this Act isn't something I'm going to lose any sleep over.
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BB,
Homeland Security chief Chertoff said this week that internet bloggers were aiding Al Quida's efforts. What they're doing is calling for a more complete investigation. But now it seems that to question the official story is now equal to aiding the enemy.
So yes, it DOES apply to US citizens, should the Prez decide to label it so. There is no check and balance anymore. If Bush decides that Alex Jones or the Loose Change kids are helping Al Q by demanding a new 911 investigation, they can be locked up and tortured.
BB, if a family member of yours decides to attend a Loose Change movie screening or debate it online, he/she can be classified as aiding al-Q. See how the law can be abused?
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BB,
Homeland Security chief Chertoff said this week that internet bloggers were aiding Al Quida's efforts. What they're doing is calling for a more complete investigation. But now it seems that to question the official story is now equal to aiding the enemy.
So yes, it DOES apply to US citizens, should the Prez decide to label it so. There is no check and balance anymore. If Bush decides that Alex Jones or the Loose Change kids are helping Al Q by demanding a new 911 investigation, they can be locked up and tortured.
BB, if a family member of yours decides to attend a Loose Change movie screening or debate it online, he/she can be classified as aiding al-Q. See how the law can be abused?
The Act doesn't apply to you. Or me. Or my family. We're U.S. citizens. No, the military cannot, based on the express language of the Act, arrest you, a U.S. citizen, for blogging about a 9/11 conspiracy, lock you up, and torture you.
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The Act doesn't apply to you. Or me. Or my family. We're U.S. citizens. No, the military cannot, based on the express language of the Act, arrest you, a U.S. citizen, for blogging about a 9/11 conspiracy, lock you up, and torture you.
Dude, I really hope and pray that you are correct, my friend!
Tonight Olbermann is going to do a big piece on the ramifications of this law, 8 pm and 12 am, on MSNBC. The initial interpretations last night though, were that anyone - US citizen or non-citizen - who aids the enemy can face these shitty things.
The fear of many is that Bush now has the ABILITY (whether he will use it or not is still unknown) to declare those who quesiton the official story as helping the enemy.
Plus, homeland security has been bashing internet bloggers a lot, saying they're helping Al-Q. Anyone who's been to those boards know that's the LAST thing they're doing. They want a complete investigation of what happened that day. We KNOW Al-Q did the hijackings on 911. We DON'T know why NORAD stood down, why WTC7 fell, or why Bush waited 441 days to investigate, or why Rudy removed the crime scene in violation of federal law. That's all the skeptics want. ANSWERS. And it seems Bush now has the power to say any group is aiding the enemy, just for asking questions. Scary.
I hope you're right, BB. I pray you're right.
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F-ucking unreal.
We are losing our rights people.
keep sippin' on your Mocha latte, as you watch Survivor, cause nothing is wrong.......... :-\
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Wow i really cant believe that so many people are so worried about this. 1st we are a government formed by the people for the people... If you look real close it says in our constitution, that our government cannot use our own millitary on U.S. soil against its own people.... Nor do i think even if bush said screw it would this ever happen. so if SHIT ever got so bad that we were loosing our rights, we would have to pull some crazy shit and really unite as a group of U.S. Citizens and walk up to the white house with guns pitchforks and rocks drag the president out of his office while his staff ran for their lives like the cops in N.O. and take back our country..... simple as that.. and remember we have two political parties that really do oppose each other... Do you think that all of the democrats in office would do something to jeopordize their rights.....NO....How many democrats want a new investigation of 9/11 so are they all gonna go to jail.....
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Wow i really cant believe that so many people are so worried about this. 1st we are a government formed by the people for the people... (http://www.imagedonkey.com/out.php?i=16134_lmao.gif) If you look real close it says in our constitution,(http://www.imagedonkey.com/out.php?i=16133_o080.gif) that our government cannot use our own millitary on U.S. soil against its own people.... (http://www.imagedonkey.com/out.php?i=16136_lmao2.gif) Nor do i think even if bush said screw it would this ever happen. so If SHIT ever got so bad that we were loosing our rights(http://www.imagedonkey.com/out.php?i=16137_lmao3.gif), we would have to pull some crazy shit and really unite as a group of U.S. Citizens and walk up to the white house with guns pitchforks and rocks drag the president out of his office while his staff ran for their lives like the cops in N.O. and take back our country..... simple as that.. and remember we have two political parties that really do oppose each other... Do you think that all of the democrats in office would do something to jeopordize their rights.....NO....How many democrats want a new investigation of 9/11 so are they all gonna go to jail..... (http://www.getbig.com/boards/Smileys/classic/rolleyes.gif)
I'm really sorry man... I long for the schooldayz where I too believed these things ;D
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Bump (in relation to more recent news on this)