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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: christinafitness on October 30, 2006, 08:21:11 AM

Title: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: christinafitness on October 30, 2006, 08:21:11 AM
I am a little shocked how little knowledge most people on this board have about the organization of bodybuilding today. The worlds largest bodybuilding federation is the IFBB (INTERNATIONAL Federation of Body Building). This federation has about 50 member countries.

Most of the athletes in the IFBB compete as amateurs. The amateur division of the IFBB in the US is known as NPC. Unlike most amateur competitions in the US, most international events are drug tested. That’s why US athletes never place high in international events. The US athletes are usually selected at the “TEAM UNIVERSE”, which is one of the few drug tested NPC shows. None of the 7 US bodybuilders made the top 5  of any of the 8 weight classes at the IFBB World Championships..

That picture is reversed when it comes to the Pro League of the IFBB. It is far easier for an US athlete to become IFBB Professional than for other athletes. There are at least 10 US bodybuilders that turn pro automatically just because of their national amateur placings.
In most other countries the athletes have to go through a recommendation process.
Is it for that reason that some of the world’s best bodybuilders are still “amateurs” in South America, Europe, Asia and (Northern) Africa. As US athletes they would have turned pro in a minute
It is also obvious, that IFBB Professionals get preferred treatment at PRO shows in the US, such as the Mr. Olympia or the New York Pro Show. In addition to that the chairman of the (international) Pro League is the same person who runs the US amateur division (NPC). Almost all members of that board are US Americans.

I am not sure if the departure of Ben Weider and the election of Rafael Santoja as the new IFBB President will bring any changes, but let’s hope for the best.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: The Squadfather on October 30, 2006, 08:21:46 AM
very exciting post. ::)
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: christinafitness on October 30, 2006, 08:34:16 AM
I am sorry. I know you prefer gossip. But it's scary how little people here know about thoe world of bodybuilding outside the US.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: The Squadfather on October 30, 2006, 08:35:16 AM
I am sorry. I know you prefer gossip. But it's scary how little people here know about thoe world of bodybuilding outside the US.
who cares? shouldn't you be out hustling some rich geek to support your "lifestyle"?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: christinafitness on October 30, 2006, 08:45:12 AM
Thanks for confirming my response
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Chick on October 30, 2006, 08:50:12 AM
CFIT-

What changes were you hoping for?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: The Squadfather on October 30, 2006, 08:53:57 AM
sounds like she wants more prize money to magically appear off of the Weider's backyard money tree.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: jaejonna on October 30, 2006, 08:57:09 AM
hahahah Magical Money Tree hahah
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: buffbodz on October 30, 2006, 08:59:58 AM

It is also obvious, that IFBB Professionals get preferred treatment at PRO shows in the US, such as the Mr. Olympia or the New York Pro Show.


I don't know where your comming from.  All the IFBB pro shows are only open to IFBB pros, no mater what country of origin.  Gunter, Rhul for many years Yates and many non American bb's get a fair shot, they just can't beat the monsters who place above them.  Gunter beat Coleman at a pro show when Ronnie was the reigning Mr O.  So I don't see what their nationality in pro shows has to do with all this.  It's not the BB fault that they must take whatever is necessary to place high. Get your standards together.  Sounds like sour grapes.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Bigger Business on October 30, 2006, 09:02:21 AM
CFIT-

What changes were you hoping for?

as you know, women lack logic and reason...they get these hairbrained ideas which sound great at the time

we'll be waiting a while for a retort


Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Chick on October 30, 2006, 09:04:44 AM
You're assuming it's a woman...
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Bigger Business on October 30, 2006, 09:11:01 AM
its either a woman or 240 in drag
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on October 30, 2006, 09:17:01 AM
I am a little shocked how little knowledge most people on this board have about the organization of bodybuilding today. The worlds largest bodybuilding federation is the IFBB (INTERNATIONAL Federation of Body Building). This federation has about 50 member countries.

Most of the athletes in the IFBB compete as amateurs. The amateur division of the IFBB in the US is known as NPC. Unlike most amateur competitions in the US, most international events are drug tested. That’s why US athletes never place high in international events. The US athletes are usually selected at the “TEAM UNIVERSE”, which is one of the few drug tested NPC shows. None of the 7 US bodybuilders made the top 5  of any of the 8 weight classes at the IFBB World Championships..

That picture is reversed when it comes to the Pro League of the IFBB. It is far easier for an US athlete to become IFBB Professional than for other athletes. There are at least 10 US bodybuilders that turn pro automatically just because of their national amateur placings.
In most other countries the athletes have to go through a recommendation process.
Is it for that reason that some of the world’s best bodybuilders are still “amateurs” in South America, Europe, Asia and (Northern) Africa. As US athletes they would have turned pro in a minute
It is also obvious, that IFBB Professionals get preferred treatment at PRO shows in the US, such as the Mr. Olympia or the New York Pro Show. In addition to that the chairman of the (international) Pro League is the same person who runs the US amateur division (NPC). Almost all members of that board are US Americans.

I am not sure if the departure of Ben Weider and the election of Rafael Santoja as the new IFBB President will bring any changes, but let’s hope for the best.


I don't think people are complaining about the amature side of the IFBB a quarter as much as they are complaining about the Pro side of the IFBB which is screwed up beyond belief. On the International side they have different Presidents for different areas of the world and even though the IFBB provides them with guidelines some take it upon themselves to make up their own criteria. As for the World Championships and Team Universe, just because they are tested doesn't mean they are clean....it's a crock of crap.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: dearth on October 30, 2006, 09:20:01 AM
how about an athletes rep, as opposed to an American athletes rep?



CFIT-

What changes were you hoping for?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on October 30, 2006, 09:23:24 AM
CFIT-

What changes were you hoping for?

How about stop referring to bodybuilders as "athletes" and enforce the drug rule.....if the contest is to be tested, then test and hand down the punishment for those who break the rule!
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Chick on October 30, 2006, 09:27:48 AM
How about stop referring to bodybuilders as "athletes" and enforce the drug rule.....if the contest is to be tested, then test and hand down the punishment for those who break the rule!

Why would you have a problem with the reference as "athletes"? If you don't believe they should be called athletes...great. Others believe they are athletes, and will call them as they see fit. It doesn't really matter either way, does it?

I do find it ironic, that everyone who DOESN'T compete is quick to jump on the "Pro Bbers are NOT athletes" bandwagan...perhaps something in the "walk a mile in my shoes", analogy...
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Bigger Business on October 30, 2006, 09:32:47 AM
if the contest is to be tested, then test and hand down the punishment for those who break the rule!

no ones collapsed on stage in a while I1

Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on October 30, 2006, 09:41:25 AM

I do find it ironic, that everyone who DOESN'T compete is quick to jump on the "Pro Bbers are NOT athletes" bandwagan...perhaps something in the "walk a mile in my shoes", analogy...

I did compete and at the National level....so I "walked a mile in your shoes"!
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Chick on October 30, 2006, 09:44:48 AM
I did compete and at the National level....so I "walked a mile in your shoes"!

Really...what show was that and when?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: knny187 on October 30, 2006, 10:41:16 AM
Really...what show was that and when?

Bob....stop acting like a dipshit.  You're about to get owned.

Funny part is....

I bet you watch Football but make comments about the players, teams & organizations.....do you have to be a football player?

Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: onlyme on October 30, 2006, 11:00:19 AM
CFIT-

What changes were you hoping for?

Sounds like Bob is worried about his job.  Rafael going to come in and clean house.  Even he sees the wastefullness of your position.   I bet you are going out right now to pick up some spanish books and see if your phone will work international.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: ieffinhatecardio on October 30, 2006, 11:14:58 AM
I do find it ironic, that everyone who DOESN'T compete is quick to jump on the "Pro Bbers are NOT athletes" bandwagan...perhaps something in the "walk a mile in my shoes", analogy...

Open mouth, insert foot. Mr. Intenseone might be a right wing zealot but he did compete as a bodybuilder and looked pretty good too.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Miss Karen on October 30, 2006, 11:26:20 AM
Chick and CFIT you know these clowns don't know anything about BB so why ask I asked if any results from worlds and they started on me personal.They are a bunch of clowns with very small brains.Burn is all they know.I can just see their happy little faces now waiting to type something personal.It's a scream that they are all under false names and Gimmick accounts.This place is a JOKE.Fools and Idiots.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: onlyme on October 30, 2006, 11:28:03 AM
I find it amazing that CHic had no idea about this move.  And Miss Karen I lke your posts.  If indeed you are a girl I like your forcefulness.  Plus I wouldn't want you to start ragging on me.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: ForMotherRussia on October 30, 2006, 11:35:06 AM
Chick and CFIT you know these clowns don't know anything about BB so why ask I asked if any results from worlds and they started on me personal.They are a bunch of clowns with very small brains.Burn is all they know.I can just see their happy little faces now waiting to type something personal.It's a scream that they are all under false names and Gimmick accounts.This place is a JOKE.Fools and Idiots.
Another post without mentioning Milos  :)- wow miss karen u r doing good- that is 2 in a row
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on October 30, 2006, 11:45:19 AM
It's a scream that they are all under false names and Gimmick accounts.This place is a JOKE.Fools and Idiots.

Miss Karen?? That name narrows it down to a fifty million Karen's in the world, talk about false names and gimmick accounts. Also, if this place is such a joke why do average about 200 posts a month???
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Chick on October 30, 2006, 11:46:49 AM
I find it amazing that CHic had no idea about this move.  And Miss Karen I lke your posts.  If indeed you are a girl I like your forcefulness.  Plus I wouldn't want you to start ragging on me.

Goddam you're a clueless fool, Keith...

How do you figure I had no clue about this move? FYI...I knew of this info well before it ever made it to this site.

Me asking what someone else's position, or what they wan't to see change has no bearing on my position or anything else for that matter...

You don't know what you're talking about...as usual.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Tre on October 30, 2006, 12:01:57 PM
Really...what show was that and when?

He meant to say that he'd walked a mile in your old shoes.   ;)
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Tre on October 30, 2006, 12:08:13 PM
It is far easier for an US athlete to become IFBB Professional than for other athletes.

False.

Quote
In most other countries the athletes have to go through a recommendation process.


There's a qualification process in the U.S. as well. 

Quote
Is it for that reason that some of the world’s best bodybuilders are still “amateurs” in South America, Europe, Asia and (Northern) Africa. As US athletes they would have turned pro in a minute.

Unless you've interviewed a large number of non-U.S. high-level amateur competitors, then you have no factual basis for your claim. 

Do some research and you'll learn that there are several individuals a year (mainly in Europe) who turn down the opportunity to become IFBB pros and instead choose to continue competing in the amateur ranks. 

Furthermore, *any* IFBB competitor *anywhere* in the world can petition his/her national or regional IFBB affiliate for pro status.  That doesn't mean it will be granted, but the process is available to all. 

Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on October 30, 2006, 12:10:30 PM
He meant to say that he'd walked a mile in your old shoes.   ;)

LOL...yes, thats about it!!
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: onlyme on October 30, 2006, 12:33:34 PM
Goddam you're a clueless fool, Keith...

How do you figure I had no clue about this move? FYI...I knew of this info well before it ever made it to this site.

Me asking what someone else's position, or what they wan't to see change has no bearing on my position or anything else for that matter...

You don't know what you're talking about...as usual.

I figured as many others probably did was if you knew why didn't you post it up.  You seem to post allot of other stuff "first".  This is the biggest nes and you didn't post it first.  It just disturbed me cause I count on you to give us all the info before it hits the press.  This time you were beat to the punch and I feel neglected. ???
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: a_joker10 on October 30, 2006, 12:58:18 PM
False.
 

There's a qualification process in the U.S. as well. 

Unless you've interviewed a large number of non-U.S. high-level amateur competitors, then you have no factual basis for your claim. 

Do some research and you'll learn that there are several individuals a year (mainly in Europe) who turn down the opportunity to become IFBB pros and instead choose to continue competing in the amateur ranks. 

Furthermore, *any* IFBB competitor *anywhere* in the world can petition his/her national or regional IFBB affiliate for pro status.  That doesn't mean it will be granted, but the process is available to all. 



Christina Fitness is right.
It is easier to become a pro in the states.

USA
Procards: 1 Team Universe, 2 at the North Americans, 7 at the Nationals, 2 USA, 4 Masters (From  NPC) Worlds

Canada:
2 @ North Americans, 2 @Nationals (note Nationals and North Americans were on the same day.) Worlds

The rest of the world:
Worlds or invites.


Seams to me to be much easier in the US.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Tre on October 30, 2006, 02:57:13 PM
Christina Fitness is right.
It is easier to become a pro in the states.

USA
Procards: 1 Team Universe, 2 at the North Americans, 7 at the Nationals, 2 USA, 4 Masters (From  NPC) Worlds

Canada:
2 @ North Americans, 2 @Nationals (note Nationals and North Americans were on the same day.) Worlds

The rest of the world:
Worlds or invites.


Seams to me to be much easier in the US.

Then by that logic (and math), it's even easier to get a pro card in Canada...after all, their population is only 1/10th that of the U.S.   ;)
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: dan18 on October 30, 2006, 03:00:03 PM
very exciting post. ::)
1st time i agree with you
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: 240 is Back on October 30, 2006, 03:07:35 PM
Mr I was a very good competitor in his day. 
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: dearth on October 30, 2006, 03:10:00 PM
Chick,

why do you ignore IFBB pros outside of America?
is it because they have less "name recognition"
or is it because the IFBB is really now just an extension of the NPC?

there is very little international representation by the International fed. of bb athletes rep.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: tommywishbone on October 30, 2006, 03:12:02 PM
IFBB Non-misconceptions...

The IFBB is an absolute complete failure.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: a_joker10 on October 30, 2006, 03:17:49 PM
Then by that logic (and math), it's even easier to get a pro card in Canada...after all, their population is only 1/10th that of the U.S.   ;)

It would be true if the Nationals and North Americans weren't on the same weekend. :P
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Chick on October 30, 2006, 03:49:38 PM
Chick,

why do you ignore IFBB pros outside of America?
is it because they have less "name recognition"
or is it because the IFBB is really now just an extension of the NPC?

there is very little international representation by the International fed. of bb athletes rep.

Show me ONE example of that...

I've gone out of my way to give letters of reccomendation to many Pro's/ amateurs trying to get their green card, and becoming a US citizen...as well as plenty of other instances of getting work for them, both in BB and film, keeping them informed with info, etc..

Why would you make such a claim?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Saskbb on October 30, 2006, 03:58:56 PM
I am a little shocked how little knowledge most people on this board have about the organization of bodybuilding today. The worlds largest bodybuilding federation is the IFBB (INTERNATIONAL Federation of Body Building). This federation has about 50 member countries.

Most of the athletes in the IFBB compete as amateurs. The amateur division of the IFBB in the US is known as NPC. Unlike most amateur competitions in the US, most international events are drug tested. That’s why US athletes never place high in international events. The US athletes are usually selected at the “TEAM UNIVERSE”, which is one of the few drug tested NPC shows. None of the 7 US bodybuilders made the top 5  of any of the 8 weight classes at the IFBB World Championships..

That picture is reversed when it comes to the Pro League of the IFBB. It is far easier for an US athlete to become IFBB Professional than for other athletes. There are at least 10 US bodybuilders that turn pro automatically just because of their national amateur placings.
In most other countries the athletes have to go through a recommendation process.
Is it for that reason that some of the world’s best bodybuilders are still “amateurs” in South America, Europe, Asia and (Northern) Africa. As US athletes they would have turned pro in a minute
It is also obvious, that IFBB Professionals get preferred treatment at PRO shows in the US, such as the Mr. Olympia or the New York Pro Show. In addition to that the chairman of the (international) Pro League is the same person who runs the US amateur division (NPC). Almost all members of that board are US Americans.

I am not sure if the departure of Ben Weider and the election of Rafael Santoja as the new IFBB President will bring any changes, but let’s hope for the best.


 I have a training partner who was this weekend Comp in the IFBB champs. and he agrees with you.  His best finish is 15th and most North Americans finish this way.  He seen a lot of great bodybuilder at this contest who stay AM's because they receive Government money to train and live!  If you turn pro, you pay your own ticket, and unless your in the top 15% of the pro ranks your broke! 

These guys also get top rate medical help to prepare for these contest, rem hgh and slin have a very short half life! 

SaskBB
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Rottmag on October 30, 2006, 04:30:25 PM
Mr. Intenseone,

Why don't you answer Chick's question?

Really...what show was that and when?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: onlyme on October 31, 2006, 01:26:38 AM
Show me ONE example of that...

I've gone out of my way to give letters of reccomendation to many Pro's/ amateurs trying to get their green card, and becoming a US citizen...as well as plenty of other instances of getting work for them, both in BB and film, keeping them informed with info, etc..

Why would you make such a claim?


 ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::) ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::) ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::) ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::) ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::) ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::) ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::) ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)  ::)
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: WiseGuy on October 31, 2006, 03:11:18 AM
I am a little shocked how little knowledge most people on this board have about the organization of bodybuilding today. The worlds largest bodybuilding federation is the IFBB (INTERNATIONAL Federation of Body Building). This federation has about 50 member countries.

Most of the athletes in the IFBB compete as amateurs. The amateur division of the IFBB in the US is known as NPC. Unlike most amateur competitions in the US, most international events are drug tested. That’s why US athletes never place high in international events. The US athletes are usually selected at the “TEAM UNIVERSE”, which is one of the few drug tested NPC shows. None of the 7 US bodybuilders made the top 5  of any of the 8 weight classes at the IFBB World Championships..

That picture is reversed when it comes to the Pro League of the IFBB. It is far easier for an US athlete to become IFBB Professional than for other athletes. There are at least 10 US bodybuilders that turn pro automatically just because of their national amateur placings.
In most other countries the athletes have to go through a recommendation process.
Is it for that reason that some of the world’s best bodybuilders are still “amateurs” in South America, Europe, Asia and (Northern) Africa. As US athletes they would have turned pro in a minute
It is also obvious, that IFBB Professionals get preferred treatment at PRO shows in the US, such as the Mr. Olympia or the New York Pro Show. In addition to that the chairman of the (international) Pro League is the same person who runs the US amateur division (NPC). Almost all members of that board are US Americans.

I am not sure if the departure of Ben Weider and the election of Rafael Santoja as the new IFBB President will bring any changes, but let’s hope for the best.



so what is stopping the IFBB from inviting those atheletes who go to the worlds that are drug tested and instead invite them to compete at a pro qualifier for international participants that is not tested and that is on US soil.....

chick can this be done?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Tre on October 31, 2006, 09:00:53 AM
I have a training partner who was this weekend Comp in the IFBB champs. and he agrees with you.  His best finish is 15th and most North Americans finish this way.  He seen a lot of great bodybuilder at this contest who stay AM's because they receive Government money to train and live!  If you turn pro, you pay your own ticket, and unless your in the top 15% of the pro ranks your broke! 

Exactly.  So, where is the incentive for individuals in those countries to become IFBB pros? 

There isn't. 

But to say that it's 'harder' for them to become pros is false.  They are just choosing not to, because being an amateur pays better.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: onlyme on October 31, 2006, 09:45:44 AM

so what is stopping the IFBB from inviting those atheletes who go to the worlds that are drug tested and instead invite them to compete at a pro qualifier for international participants that is not tested and that is on US soil.....

chick can this be done?

Believe me it will happen now.  With the PDI grabbing Europeans the IFBB will what they can to keep them.  Making a guy a pro costs the IFBB nothing.  IN fact they make money. So it will be to their advantage to make as many competitors pros as they can.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: a_joker10 on October 31, 2006, 11:47:56 AM
Exactly.  So, where is the incentive for individuals in those countries to become IFBB pros? 

There isn't. 

But to say that it's 'harder' for them to become pros is false.  They are just choosing not to, because being an amateur pays better.
As above 2 spots for all of Europe, Asia and Africa. In a contest that includes Americans.
6 billion people give or take

17 spots in the USA 300 million

It seems a little harder to me.

Why does team Universe have pro Cards when these guys can't even finish in the top 15.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: onlyme on October 31, 2006, 12:24:24 PM
For the real old guys.  Is it really true that when Weider first started printing his magazines way back he would print them at one printer till he had to pay them then go to another then another without paying any of them. And that is a main reason he moved to the West Coast and set up shop.  Why would he leave the East Coast.  I mean it sounds like something he'd do. 

And why oh why doesn't anyone talk about the tax situation with the IFBB. 
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Lift Studios on October 31, 2006, 12:50:30 PM
Keith would you like the solve the puzzle or buy a vowel?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on October 31, 2006, 01:12:36 PM
Keith would you like the solve the puzzle or buy a vowel?

lol!
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: WiseGuy on October 31, 2006, 01:30:43 PM
Believe me it will happen now.  With the PDI grabbing Europeans the IFBB will what they can to keep them.  Making a guy a pro costs the IFBB nothing.  IN fact they make money. So it will be to their advantage to make as many competitors pros as they can.

yep your right keith.....now that the PDI will do it so will the IFBB.......

Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Tre on October 31, 2006, 01:52:51 PM
As above 2 spots for all of Europe, Asia and Africa. In a contest that includes Americans.
6 billion people give or take

17 spots in the USA 300 million

It seems a little harder to me.

Why does team Universe have pro Cards when these guys can't even finish in the top 15.

Again, any member of an IFBB amateur affiliate can petition their national or regional federation to endorse their application for IFBB pro status. 
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: a_joker10 on October 31, 2006, 02:11:54 PM
So why have contests?

What is the affiliates requirement for a member to become a pro?

There are many shows around the world why aren't these Qualifiers?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: christinafitness on October 31, 2006, 03:00:03 PM
That's a very good question!
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Tre on October 31, 2006, 03:05:47 PM
So why have contests?

Contests exist as showcases for the powder salesmen. 

Quote
There are many shows around the world why aren't these Qualifiers?

Some will say it's a money issue, some will say it's a matter of quality and the depth of the competitive fields in certain places, but at the end of the day, the IFBB doesn't have an official spokesperson that will come right out and give you a straight, honest answer to that question.

To heck with the pro ranks...what we fans should really want to see is for the amateur divisions to be opened worldwide, meaning that any amateur from anywhere could compete in any pro qualifier anywhere in the world.  I would love it if there was an open Grand Prix event in Tahiti, for example. 

It's time to globalize.



Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: a_joker10 on October 31, 2006, 03:17:57 PM
Personally I would like to see less qualifiers and no national exemptions.
The field is too watered down.

I think the drive for pro cards in the US and Canada for that matter is a tool to market their shows.
It makes little sense to give every weight class winner at the Nationals a pro card. It is even sillier that Team Universe winner gets a pro card, even though they can't win at the worlds.
 
The rest of the world only markets for the World Championships. It works for them.

Pro's should also have to perform more than once a year. It would be a good idea to have a play down system, like the rest of the sporting world is moving to.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Miss Karen on October 31, 2006, 03:34:33 PM
It's not what you know it's who you know.I know a Pro that was given his Pro card, did not even win a Pro qualifier or world title.A gift from a promoter. ::)
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Tre on November 01, 2006, 05:36:07 AM
Personally I would like to see less qualifiers and no national exemptions.
The field is too watered down.

I think the drive for pro cards in the US and Canada for that matter is a tool to market their shows.
It makes little sense to give every weight class winner at the Nationals a pro card. It is even sillier that Team Universe winner gets a pro card, even though they can't win at the worlds.
 
The rest of the world only markets for the World Championships. It works for them.

Pro's should also have to perform more than once a year. It would be a good idea to have a play down system, like the rest of the sporting world is moving to.

Not a bad post, but I think having our current 3-tiered system is good for business all the way around. 

You've got the amateurs, you've got your 'pool' of pros, and then you have your pro stars. 

Are there always going to be pros who will *never* qualify for the highest-level shows?  Yes, but we have to have lineup fillers, otherwise there's no show. 

I'd love to see some of the non-Americans come over and test themselves here against our best amateurs.  Likewise, I'd love to see our best competing against other top amateurs outside the U.S. on a more-than-once-a-year basis.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Vince B on November 01, 2006, 06:12:40 AM
When Joe Weider wasn't on stage to raise the hand of Mr Olympia I wondered if it was the end of an era. A month later Ben tosses the towel in and we have a whole new ball game. I guess we literally had to wait until these guys 'died' instead of killing the silly things the IFBB does and stands for.

Chick had another athlete's meeting. Weinberger was representing the promoters and could vote. About half a dozen athletes attended but couldn't vote. They discussed very little, decided nothing important and the meeting seemed to me to be almost a complete waste of time.

If the IFBB wants to be a relevant and responsible organization how about they do away with the appointed vice-presidents and have open elections in every member country? Ben and Joe have a lot of savvy as businessmen and have surrounded themselves with cooperating people who seem to the rest of us like kowtowing stooges. The whole organization is so corrupt that I wonder if a new president can save it.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Chick on November 01, 2006, 07:46:32 AM
When Joe Weider wasn't on stage to raise the hand of Mr Olympia I wondered if it was the end of an era. A month later Ben tosses the towel in and we have a whole new ball game. I guess we literally had to wait until these guys 'died' instead of killing the silly things the IFBB does and stands for.

Chick had another athlete's meeting. Weinberger was representing the promoters and could vote. About half a dozen athletes attended but couldn't vote. They discussed very little, decided nothing important and the meeting seemed to me to be almost a complete waste of time.

If the IFBB wants to be a relevant and responsible organization how about they do away with the appointed vice-presidents and have open elections in every member country? Ben and Joe have a lot of savvy as businessmen and have surrounded themselves with cooperating people who seem to the rest of us like kowtowing stooges. The whole organization is so corrupt that I wonder if a new president can save it.

I'm sorry...I don't remember you being at the meeting, Vince. Were you sitting in the back row, or did I miss you somehow?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: ieffinhatecardio on November 01, 2006, 07:53:30 AM
I'm sorry...I don't remember you being at the meeting, Vince. Were you sitting in the back row, or did I miss you somehow?

Are you saying his assertions are incorrect?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Chick on November 01, 2006, 08:05:11 AM
Are you saying his assertions are incorrect?

I'm saying he's a clueless old fuck, as usual...

I love it how he (and others) like to chime in with their 2 cents, without being there, having no knowledge whatsoever about what was said, or having anything to do with what goes on...

Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: xpac2 on November 01, 2006, 08:18:01 AM
I'm saying he's a clueless old f**k, as usual...


Way to class up the joint. I wonder what would happen if the head of the NHL or MLB players union said that?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Chick on November 01, 2006, 08:22:26 AM
Nothing would happen...
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Vince B on November 01, 2006, 09:10:19 AM
I mistook the pro division meeting for the athlete's meeting. http://www.ifbb.com/ifbbpro/Minutes_ProCommittee06.pdf  I would bet nothing much happened at any of those meetings. I see Jim Manion was appointed by Ben Weider. Was anyone in the IFBB actually elected?  
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Tre on November 01, 2006, 09:12:41 AM

A year of pro league business taken care of in just one hour? 

Those guys were rockin'!   :D
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Chick on November 01, 2006, 09:21:28 AM
I mistook the pro division meeting for the athlete's meeting. http://www.ifbb.com/ifbbpro/Minutes_ProCommittee06.pdf  I would bet nothing much happened at any of those meetings. I see Jim Manion was appointed by Ben Weider. Was anyone in the IFBB actually elected?  

Last time I checked, the PRO DIVISION was a Wayne DeMilia gig...

The Athletes meeting had NOTHING to do with the Pro Commitee meeting you posted the link to...

Do you have any idea what your talking about?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Vince B on November 01, 2006, 09:42:10 AM
Yeah, DeMilia was an IFBB stalwart, wasn't he?  Let's see what a former insider can do to his old mates. What a pathetic enterprise so-called professional bodybuilding has become. I see very little in the way of integrity or honour emitting from those involved. Bob, your behaviour and demeanor on line is rather hostile and unworthy of someone representing any organization.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Chick on November 01, 2006, 09:48:29 AM
Yeah, DeMilia was an IFBB stalwart, wasn't he?  Let's see what a former insider can do to his old mates. What a pathetic enterprise so-called professional bodybuilding has become. I see very little in the way of integrity or honour emitting from those involved. Bob, your behaviour and demeanor on line is rather hostile and unworthy of someone representing any organization.

What the hell are you talking about???

You start by saying the meeting was worthless and nothing got accomplished...then you use an entirely different organizations name, then you backtrack and say you were talking about a different meeting...which had nothing to do with what you originally posted...

Now you're talking about Wayne DeMilia..??

Why not just admit you got caught talking shit about things you don't have any clue about?

You sound like an old fool....
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: onlyme on November 01, 2006, 10:11:14 AM
I'm saying he's a clueless old f**k, as usual...

I love it how he (and others) like to chime in with their 2 cents, without being there, having no knowledge whatsoever about what was said, or having anything to do with what goes on...



Well you must not have much money cause no one came to the meeting.  What a meeting it mst have been.  You and a few mirrors talking to each other.  Did you get anything done.  Shoudl have been out campaigning, you could have got that last couple votes and you would have been the President.  Now that is climbing up the ladder.  From a IFBB Page to the President.  You could have made history
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Chick on November 01, 2006, 10:14:33 AM
These guys can come to the meetings, or not...

I'll continue to give them the option of being interested and having something to contribute for their benefit...If they choose to let me call the shots, and make change on their behalf...so be it.

I'll continue to work in the best interests of all IFBB pro's,it's apparent they are content to let me lead the way for them...I have no problem with that.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: 240 is Back on November 01, 2006, 10:15:43 AM
Bob,

did you guys top the attendance of 4 from the 2005 Athletes Rep meeting?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: 240 is Back on November 01, 2006, 10:16:18 AM
I'll continue to work in the best interests of all IFBB pro's

What about Rodney St Cloud?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Chick on November 01, 2006, 10:17:16 AM
Bob,

did you guys top the attendance of 4 from the 2005 Athletes Rep meeting?

We sure did!
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: onlyme on November 01, 2006, 10:20:21 AM
We sure did!

Oh my, you are counting the hotel staff too now.  Come on Chic be real.  Give us the real numbers not the ones you dream up.  There were more pros in the Buffett line.  Actually that would be a better place to hold the meeting.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Chick on November 01, 2006, 10:24:13 AM
What about Rodney St Cloud?

What about him?

When Rodney was in the IFBB, I worked in his best interest as well as every other dues paying member...

Now he's not...
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: xpac2 on November 01, 2006, 11:13:49 AM

You sound like an old fool....


Your athletes rep folks! Professional to the end!
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: nycbull on November 01, 2006, 11:24:20 AM
I dont see why CHICK has to act differently here than anyone else, this isn't an IFBB board, he is off duty. WHy cant he speak his mind just like everyother getbigger here....the censoratzi should back off.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Tre on November 01, 2006, 12:59:58 PM
When Rodney was in the IFBB, I worked in his best interest as well as every other dues paying member...

Now he's not...

Will he receive a pro-rated refund on his IFBB membership dues for 2006?
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Tre on November 01, 2006, 01:07:34 PM

Xpac has a point - it's the same reason that Senator Kerry isn't allowed to call President Bush 'stupid' without all hell breaking loose.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: onlyme on November 01, 2006, 04:02:59 PM
I dont see why CHICK has to act differently here than anyone else, this isn't an IFBB board, he is off duty. WHy cant he speak his mind just like everyother getbigger here....the censoratzi should back off.

But it is an IFBB board.  They have allot to say what goes in and what goes out. 
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Vince B on November 01, 2006, 04:11:38 PM
Okay, Bob, I can see how you operate in a discussion. Your strategy is to try to dismiss anyone who you don't approve of by labelling them in some negative way such as saying they are 'old' and 'foolish'. You then present as evidence that someone made a mistake about a meeting. The essence of what I said remains and you have not refuted it. Present anything important and significant that happened in your athlete's meeting. Remember that you were appointed to this position just like everyone else in the IFBB and were not elected. You presume the athletes support and endorse you but that might not be true. I personally find you an offensive, pompous individual who should not be associated with any bodybuilding organization as a spokesperson. You might be able to get some things done behind the scenes but you should desist in posting on internet discussing boards where you attack people instead of opinions.

There are intelligent people associated with bodybuilding and many of them do not endorse what the IFBB is doing to this sport. Do we have to mention the necessity to use drugs in your professional competitions? Bar and restaurant staff and many other workers have won disputes with employers regarding smoking in their work environments. It was determined that if anything contributed to longterm ill health then the employers were negligent and responsible. It seems to me that your professional athletes would have a case against the IFBB if any of them suffered ill health because of drug use. Especially when your rules clearly are against any forbidden drug use. For you to appear on these boards and not address this important issue makes you and the IFBB seem oblivious of any wrongdoing. Why even have a medical committee? Those doctors alerted you all to the dangers involved in many extreme practices in building up and then getting cut up for contests. It is clear to any informed person that the IFBB professional bodybuilding is a dangerous sport and there are no restrictions on substances that every single other sport is against and tests for. Well, not all powerlifting sports do drug testing but perhaps they should. What has happened is that bodybuilding at the elite level such as the Olympia has become so dangerous that no sane person would encourage his son or daughter to get involved or want to compete. In the old days the drug issue was swept under the table and people denied using anything. Eventually the truth came out and today it is common knowledge that most if not all athletes at the professional level use drugs to prepare for contests. What are you and the IFBB going to do about this issue?  
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: MisterMagoo on November 01, 2006, 04:31:22 PM
bob, why aren't you personally ensuring that ever pro will get $10,000 at every contest, supplement endorsements, and have all of their travel expenses paid for? for that matter, why aren't you totally overhauling every single aspect of the ifbb that anyone on the message boards could possibly complain about? and get on top of making sure every single contest shows up live on espn and fox sports. you're the athlete's rep, obviously fixing every single little thing is your responsibility.  ::)
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: christinafitness on November 01, 2006, 05:52:32 PM
The IFBB Professional Commettee has 19 members, 16 of them are from the US.
Is that balanced???
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: WOOO on November 01, 2006, 05:54:58 PM
very exciting post. ::)


yawn...     :P
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: onlyme on November 01, 2006, 08:36:22 PM
The IFBB Professional Commettee has 19 members, 16 of them are from the US.
Is that balanced???

It is in the eyes up the upper management.  That is why they are there.  If there was any kind of election in the IFBB Weider would have been out many many years ago.  Chic would no way in hell ever been elected to whatever position he calls himself. And as many of us seen and agree he would not have won the Masters.  But, hey he has admitted he doesn't get paid by the IFBB so they needed to reward him somehow.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Vince B on November 01, 2006, 11:29:37 PM
Hey, Keith, how come you and I see things the same way concerning the IFBB and the lackies who run it? Maybe we are the odd ones out! You and I never would qualify for a position because we think for ourselves and aren't stooges. We can only imagine what the sport would be today if Serge Nubret had been elected as president. Ben saw the threat and made his position for life. I guess he has surrounded himself with enough stooges to carry on as before. You gotta love the way they stick together! Jobs for the boys. You know, the original 'vice-presidents' were mostly agents for Weider products in those countries. Ah, what a wonderful way to recruit the party faithful.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Richard2004 on November 02, 2006, 04:57:48 PM
As Ben Weider said on his recent Bodybuilding.com Radio interview, his “lifelong dream” has been to get BB competition as an added Olympic “sport”. 

Of course, the only hope for this to come about is supposedly that only amateur BB may be considered by the IOC (as Ben stated).  This is because the pro. BBers are so “juiced/doped to the gills” that there is absolutely no hope of them competing in the Olympics.

However, if amateur BB is ever accepted as an Olympic “sport”, these BBers would probably be drug-tested to the standards of the International Weightlifting Federation (IWF), which is the most rigorous doping testing on the planet…even more so than the IOC’s standards!  For example, U.S. superheavy  Olympic weightlifter Shane Hamman was randomly drug-tested some 18 times during the 2004 Olympic year by the IWF’s U.S. equivalent (USAW).

Compared to the IWF’s rigorous, random, drug-testing and punishment standards for positive testing, all relative competitive BB drug-testing is “a joke”, to say the least! 

Sadly, many amateur BBers, in their impatience to develop muscle mass/vascularity, dope to the levels of the pros.!

Of course, doping testing will always be a "cat-and-mouse game", but getting amateur BB eventually recognized as an Olympic “sport” would be a big positive step in the direction of cleaning up the “drug/doping” stigma currently associated even with amateur BB in  the general public’s eye! 
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: WOOO on November 02, 2006, 05:00:40 PM
very exciting post. ::)
::)
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: dirk digler on November 02, 2006, 05:01:31 PM
Why would you have a problem with the reference as "athletes"? If you don't believe they should be called athletes...great. Others believe they are athletes, and will call them as they see fit. It doesn't really matter either way, does it?

I do find it ironic, that everyone who DOESN'T compete is quick to jump on the "Pro Bbers are NOT athletes" bandwagan...perhaps something in the "walk a mile in my shoes", analogy...
Sport is human excellence in physical activity. Bodybuilding is the cultivation appearance of being able to excel in physical activity; it is not sport.
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on November 02, 2006, 08:51:25 PM
Sport is human excellence in physical activity. Bodybuilding is the cultivation appearance of being able to excel in physical activity; it is not sport.

And bodybuilders are NOT athletes!
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: Tre on November 03, 2006, 05:51:39 AM
The IFBB Professional Commettee has 19 members, 16 of them are from the US.
Is that balanced???

Separate entities using the same name...
Title: Re: IFBB Misconceptions....
Post by: onlyme on November 03, 2006, 11:55:14 AM
Chick is a popular scapegoat, but you all look like knobs ranting all about without actually having any inside knowledge. Keith, Vince, et-al. When was the last time you guys actually sat down in an insider meeting? I know Keith was once on the inside track, but wasn't that like 10-20 years ago? The others -- probably never.

No matter how much you guys rant or oppose, I (and many others on the board) can't side with you because I don't know who is right either. And to side, would imply that I had knowledge of something I don't have knowledge of. And you all say Chick is wrong for some reason or another, but at the same time, you're contradicting and correcting each other.

You are right about Chic being the IFBB scapegoat but he wants to be it and with that he needs to take the crap that comes along with it.  And actually any inside track I have is better now than 20 years ago.  My personal experiences started back 25 years ago.  But, any "inside" stuff I know I get from actual IFBB officials (or former) that I talk to regulary.  And I do not post 80% of the stuff I am told.  Because I am told not to or just because I forget half the shit I am told.  The stuff I bring up about the IFBB like the way they treat their members and take advantage of them without compensation, tax problems, election process etc. are not my opinions but 100% fact.  I may go off sometimes on Chic and say some stuff just out of the way I feel and I may be wrong, but that still doesn't deter from the "facts" I state.  I like Chic.  I like Chic allot, I think he is a good guy and really believes in what he is doing.  The nly problem I have is who and what he supports.  I know how the IFBB, Weiders, NPC and Manion work.  I am not guessing or reading others crap.  My statements come from personal experiences from all of them.  And it's not only me but I am one that will voice his thoughts and opinions.