Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure

Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: alexxx on November 11, 2006, 11:57:29 AM

Title: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: alexxx on November 11, 2006, 11:57:29 AM
I noticed that with a quick 5 minute pump up I added 1/2 an inch on each arm. If I do that for 3 hours will that add more?
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 11, 2006, 11:58:39 AM
Depends some people 1/4 inch maybe upwards of an 1/2 inch !!
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: alexxx on November 11, 2006, 12:00:31 PM
Here is another question: Does a pump equal muscle growth or does the weight lifted make the muscle bigger?
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 11, 2006, 12:04:44 PM
Here is another question: Does a pump equal muscle growth or does the weight lifted make the muscle bigger?

No a pump is just the influx of blood into the muscle casuing it to swell , tearing the muscle make it grow so the theory goes, you stretch the muscle beyond its capacity and it tears and when it recovers it grows back stronger and thicker .
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: alexxx on November 11, 2006, 12:05:40 PM
No a pump is just the influx of blood into the muscle casuing it to swell , tearing the muscle make it grow so the theory goes, you stretch the muscle beyond its capacity and it tears and when it recovers it grows back stronger and thicker .

What if you tear it without a pump but with maximum weight?
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: Yorkie T on November 11, 2006, 12:07:13 PM
No a pump is just the influx of blood into the muscle casuing it to swell , tearing the muscle make it grow so the theory goes, you stretch the muscle beyond its capacity and it tears and when it recovers it grows back stronger and thicker .

would a bigger pump help to stretch the fascia thus making it easier to build the muscle? i always thought this might be the case, thats why i always try and get a really good pump on the last set of a workout.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 11, 2006, 12:08:45 PM
What if you tear it without a pump but with maximum weight?

You don't need a pump for muscles to grow , a lot of time people don't even get a pump all you need to do is work the muscle beyond its normal capacity.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: HERACLES on November 11, 2006, 12:10:21 PM
They say a great pump is necesary for muscle growth...all the influx of nutrients and blood helps...so If your lifitng super heavy, but arent getting a good pump, this is not conducive to anabolism.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 11, 2006, 12:11:59 PM
would a bigger pump help to stretch the fascia thus making it easier to build the muscle? i always thought this might be the case, thats why i always try and get a really good pump on the last set of a workout.


I don't think a pump would matter to growth , all that matters if you work the muscle beyond its normal capacity and the pump is just the result of blood rushing to the muscles , the key is to tear the muscle so it can rebuild itself stronger & thicker , because you can get a pump from isometrics but they don't do much in the way of building muscles .
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 11, 2006, 12:14:17 PM
They say a great pump is necesary for muscle growth...all the influx of nutrients and blood helps...so If your lifitng super heavy, but arent getting a good pump, this is not conducive to anabolism.

Tearing the muscle is necesary for muscle growth and muscle growth doesn't take place at the gym it takes place after the fact , getting the proper nutriants and rest coupled with overloading the muscle is necesary for growth.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: corinth on November 11, 2006, 12:36:06 PM
There are big differences between "pumping" a  muscle, "exhausting" a muscle, and working a muscle to complete muscular "failure".
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 11, 2006, 12:38:19 PM
There are big differences between "pumping" a  muscle, "exhausting" a muscle, and working a muscle to complete muscular "failure".

Right !
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: candidate2025 on November 11, 2006, 12:42:48 PM
I thought the muscle tears because there is soo much blood rushing into it?  ???
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: figgs on November 11, 2006, 12:47:32 PM
There are big differences between "pumping" a  muscle, "exhausting" a muscle, and working a muscle to complete muscular "failure".

The pump and exhaustion exist in a relationship with one another. The more exhausted the muscle, the greater the pump. And training to failure will achieve the best of both worlds.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: Debussey on November 11, 2006, 12:51:10 PM
Your dick grows when blood flows into it.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 11, 2006, 01:02:44 PM
I thought the muscle tears because there is soo much blood rushing into it?  ???

No the muscle tears because its stressed beyond its normal capacity , if your biceps are only use to 175lbs berbell curls and you overload them by doing 195lbs in the same strict fashion your biceps become overloaded and tear and under the best set of circumstances , proper rest , nutrients , rest they would heal up ( being sore ) and grow stronger & thicker , until you reach a platue and everyone reaches a point where no matter how you try those muscles have reach thier maximum for growth.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: gh15 on November 11, 2006, 01:36:55 PM
I noticed that with a quick 5 minute pump up I added 1/2 an inch on each arm. If I do that for 3 hours will that add more?


no

pump =  +.25-.5  on each muscle worked
pump weight = 2-6lb  depends on what drugs youre  on and diet/water intake.
natural guys pump will be at ~ 2-3lb,,starting weight 180,,,end of work out weight = 182-183lb
any one who stays in the gym for over 60 min is a moron that likes to talk between sets.  what you didnt achieve within first 45min wont be achieved after 2 hours

Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: TheAnimal on November 11, 2006, 01:40:14 PM
wow, so you can reach a point where muscles can no longer hypertrophy?
but how would that work... since the body's mechanism is to grow the muscle when repeated overloaded stimulus under the presence of hormones and nutrients.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: alexxx on November 11, 2006, 02:33:57 PM

no

pump =  +.25-.5  on each muscle worked
pump weight = 2-6lb  depends on what drugs youre  on and diet/water intake.
natural guys pump will be at ~ 2-3lb,,starting weight 180,,,end of work out weight = 182-183lb
any one who stays in the gym for over 60 min is a moron that likes to talk between sets.  what you didnt achieve within first 45min wont be achieved after 2 hours



That's what lazy people say. Also the ones that don't place at a contest.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: NarcissisticDeity on November 11, 2006, 02:45:27 PM
wow, so you can reach a point where muscles can no longer hypertrophy?
but how would that work... since the body's mechanism is to grow the muscle when repeated overloaded stimulus under the presence of hormones and nutrients.


Thats a good question but people reached that point of dead-end hypotheory and drugs helped overcome that problem but even with drugs there is just a point where it can't be done for whatever reason , limits to muscle cells I guess .
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: Stubborn on November 11, 2006, 06:14:06 PM
With the help of AAS there is almost no limits other than time and genetics. All that either of these will do is slow you down. If you are training effectively and dosing properly (for which there are many deciding factors) then you should be able to make gains until your old and brittle (time comes into play). If doing these things then most should never see their "limits."
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: darksol on November 12, 2006, 10:28:42 PM
Actually a pump does help growth, as you are forcing blood and nutrients into a muscle, this causes your body to create new pathways for blood to the region as it assumes this region needs an increased oxygen supply.  Just lifting alone doesn't always do this.  I try to make sure I get a pump when I workout, but I do it by pushing my muscles to absolute failure. 
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: dontknowit on November 14, 2006, 07:31:54 AM
Why spend time on pumping if you can do cardio?

Een couple of miles running makes the blood come everywhere, and improves your cardio-vasculair system a lot more than a set of infinity reps.

Pumping doesn't make the muscle grow, believe.

Check out the different types of musclefibers.

Type I
 Type II (or IIA)
  Type X (or IIB)

Nothing fancy, strictly science. Pumping (as in endless reps) activates type I, and that's a muscle with absolutely no growth-potential,
better to use a cardio session that makes active use of the muscle like swimming or crosstrainer.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: Old_Rooster on November 14, 2006, 07:56:17 AM
No a pump is just the influx of blood into the muscle casuing it to swell , tearing the muscle make it grow so the theory goes, you stretch the muscle beyond its capacity and it tears and when it recovers it grows back stronger and thicker .

Also, a pump comes generally from repping, getting more blood to the arm.   Heavy lifting generally doesn't give you the same PUMP feeling but does much more to add growth.  Lesson:  You don't have to have a pump to mean you have had a good workout.
Actually no pump is usually better because that means you have pretty much lifted heavy and heavy weights equals growth always more than light weight does.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: BEAST 8692 on November 15, 2006, 05:22:17 AM
get on the floor and do 100 pushups. you will get a great pump, but you won't grow anywhere near the potential of heavy progressive weight training.

marines do pushups all day long. they must have massive chests right?

Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: kicker on November 15, 2006, 05:41:57 PM
I train for strength (and therefore size), not for pumps  8)
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: alexxx on November 15, 2006, 06:07:42 PM
I train for strength (and therefore size), not for pumps  8)

Only a pump will give you a formable physique!
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: Bast000 on November 15, 2006, 07:35:06 PM
Only a pump will give you a formable physique!

you are horrible at using the English language.

word is formidable
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: dontknowit on November 16, 2006, 04:22:53 AM
Only a pump will give you a formable physique!
Wrong,
a good diet/low fat wil give you a good physique,
it's got nothing to do with pump.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: Marty Champions on November 16, 2006, 06:45:23 AM
get on the floor and do 100 pushups. you will get a great pump, but you won't grow anywhere near the potential of heavy progressive weight training.

marines do pushups all day long. they must have massive chests right?


they dont eat enough
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: alexxx on November 16, 2006, 03:33:01 PM
you are horrible at using the English language.

word is formidable

Stop flirting with danger young lad.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: Bast000 on November 16, 2006, 06:07:35 PM
Stop flirting with danger young lad.

stop flirting with muscle bears.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: alexxx on November 16, 2006, 06:22:31 PM
stop flirting with muscle bears.

How dare you!
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: Cerberus2k7 on November 29, 2006, 10:52:28 PM
n00b question, but its damn near impossible for me to get pump in my arms, but when I do deads, I get it VERY quickly.  Is that just because I have more blood flowing in that portion of my body, or because that's one of my weaker muscle groups?  Just curious since i've been training my lowerback/abs a lot more lately.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: Stubborn on November 30, 2006, 01:24:34 PM
I have never heard of anyone getting a pump in the arms from deads. Maybe the forearm but the bis/tris??? Surely it must be a weak area for you.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: ARTI on November 30, 2006, 02:08:02 PM
I can pump 'em up an inch. After a good bi and tri day. Supersets help.
My arms are: 18" cold, hanging,
                   19" cold, flexed,
                    20" pumped, flexed.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: ARTI on November 30, 2006, 02:13:38 PM
Quote
They say a great pump is necesary for muscle growth...all the influx of nutrients and blood helps...so If your lifitng super heavy, but arent getting a good pump, this is not conducive to anabolism.

Powerlifters are walking proof that you don't need a pump or to take sets to or past failure the increase muscle size.
We lift heavy with long rests, very rarely doing more than 8 reps. If nothing else powerlifters are THICK.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: Cerberus2k7 on November 30, 2006, 11:21:28 PM
I have never heard of anyone getting a pump in the arms from deads. Maybe the forearm but the bis/tris??? Surely it must be a weak area for you.

I meant in that area of the body that youre currently working on.  Some areas seem to trigger it easier than others.  Just wondering why.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: Stubborn on November 30, 2006, 11:30:11 PM
You can just as easily get a pump in your arms as you do in your back. It all depends on how YOU train. Have you achieved an arm pump through a different training protocol? Have you even tried another? Just play around and you will find what works.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: davie on December 01, 2006, 08:29:59 AM
You can just as easily get a pump in your arms as you do in your back. It all depends on how YOU train. Have you achieved an arm pump through a different training protocol? Have you even tried another? Just play around and you will find what works.
#

Recently started variation of HIT....2day was chest/arms, im sitting here sipping protein shake through straw (lol) and can barely lift my arms, the pump after uv performed a set to failure then rest/paused for like 10 breathes then gone again to failure, then dropped weight 35% then gone to failure followed by another rest/pause is nuts. But that nice feeling at same time. lol.

davie
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: Cerberus2k7 on December 01, 2006, 11:19:37 PM
You can just as easily get a pump in your arms as you do in your back. It all depends on how YOU train. Have you achieved an arm pump through a different training protocol? Have you even tried another? Just play around and you will find what works.

AFAIK i've never gotten pump from working my arms.  I've gotten arm pump from motocross, but that's a whole different story. :p  I mean, I *may* have gotten it before but it was light.  But the sensation in my back when I get it is like.....DAMN!  I still have a lot to learn in terms of workout formats.  I just go, train two parts of my body at a time and use 3 different excercises to work that specific muscle group.  And I don't usually go to failure so that may be the issue?
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: DVSGOD on December 02, 2006, 01:30:19 AM
I think you need both , train heavy enough to destroy the muscle and get a pump at the same time  ;D
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: gtbro1 on December 02, 2006, 01:41:31 AM

no

pump =  +.25-.5  on each muscle worked
pump weight = 2-6lb  depends on what drugs youre  on and diet/water intake.
natural guys pump will be at ~ 2-3lb,,starting weight 180,,,end of work out weight = 182-183lb
any one who stays in the gym for over 60 min is a moron that likes to talk between sets.  what you didnt achieve within first 45min wont be achieved after 2 hours




How in the hell can you gain weight by getting a pump? That makes no sense to me.A pump is the blood filling the muscle,but you are not MAKING more blood..it is just the blood you already have.What is the extra weight?
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: DVSGOD on December 02, 2006, 01:55:11 AM

How in the hell can you gain weight by getting a pump? That makes no sense to me.A pump is the blood filling the muscle,but you are not MAKING more blood..it is just the blood you already have.What is the extra weight?
Agree
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: BEAST 8692 on December 02, 2006, 05:01:15 AM

no

pump =  +.25-.5  on each muscle worked
pump weight = 2-6lb  depends on what drugs youre  on and diet/water intake.
natural guys pump will be at ~ 2-3lb,,starting weight 180,,,end of work out weight = 182-183lb
any one who stays in the gym for over 60 min is a moron that likes to talk between sets.  what you didnt achieve within first 45min wont be achieved after 2 hours



omg, gh getyour ass on here and explain this quick.

that has got to be one of the most obtuse statements on get big ever.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: gh15 on December 02, 2006, 01:22:22 PM
omg, gh getyour ass on here and explain this quick.

that has got to be one of the most obtuse statements on get big ever.


your pump "weight" will depends on what products you use,,
pump= blood rush and water weight
water weight will be influenced by the product you inject. example: if you injected 3units gh before training or 80mcg igf1lr3,,,you will have max pump at the end of your session,,,add dianabol to it and you will fly high with sometimes up to 8lb of "pump-water weight gain" after your session ends. it is similar to your weight difference upon waking up and before going to sleep,,,jason body shows it the best,,he is a good example of a bodybuilder that wake up 285 and will go to sleep 293-295 at times.

those are not real solid poundage,,,but if work with correctly and eating at the right time and enough,,it will become solid after coulple months,,

your muscles love the pump,,,your muscle love water,,,if supplied with enough nutrients they will grow under those conditions,,and that is why we go through  bulk stages in bodybuilding.

pump is diff for natural guys,,,it is to a lesser degree POUNDAGE WIZE but is still there because its only blood rush to the muscles worked.

from my experience the typical individual will gainn .25-.5 inch on each muscle worked after the session is over.

pump weight will be at around 5lb depending on diet and products youre on,,,natural guys will be at around 3lb ALTHOUGH if you didnt eat and drink for 10 hours,,woke up and went training,,,you will obviously "gain" ~5lb at the end of the session wether youre on,,,off,,,natural or alien.

what im talkin about is rough numbers for constant in training bodybuilders who are on strict schedule of training and have plenty of calories to eat.

lastly,,,i find that if you need to be in the gym over 60 min,,,then you either do something wrong or simply like to socialize with the local hoes. in this day and age you dont wanna be 200lb off and 165lb on,,,this era is the era of big bodybuilders,,,you dont get to be big by sittinng at the gym for 3 hours 7 days  week. ripped cut and chiseled - yes,,, big as in high muscle mass,,um no.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: BEAST 8692 on December 02, 2006, 05:23:25 PM

your pump "weight" will depends on what products you use,,
pump= blood rush and water weight
water weight will be influenced by the product you inject. example: if you injected 3units gh before training or 80mcg igf1lr3,,,you will have max pump at the end of your session,,,add dianabol to it and you will fly high with sometimes up to 8lb of "pump-water weight gain" after your session ends. it is similar to your weight difference upon waking up and before going to sleep,,,jason body shows it the best,,he is a good example of a bodybuilder that wake up 285 and will go to sleep 293-295 at times.

those are not real solid poundage,,,but if work with correctly and eating at the right time and enough,,it will become solid after coulple months,,

your muscles love the pump,,,your muscle love water,,,if supplied with enough nutrients they will grow under those conditions,,and that is why we go through  bulk stages in bodybuilding.

pump is diff for natural guys,,,it is to a lesser degree POUNDAGE WIZE but is still there because its only blood rush to the muscles worked.

from my experience the typical individual will gainn .25-.5 inch on each muscle worked after the session is over.

pump weight will be at around 5lb depending on diet and products youre on,,,natural guys will be at around 3lb ALTHOUGH if you didnt eat and drink for 10 hours,,woke up and went training,,,you will obviously "gain" ~5lb at the end of the session wether youre on,,,off,,,natural or alien.

what im talkin about is rough numbers for constant in training bodybuilders who are on strict schedule of training and have plenty of calories to eat.

lastly,,,i find that if you need to be in the gym over 60 min,,,then you either do something wrong or simply like to socialize with the local hoes. in this day and age you dont wanna be 200lb off and 165lb on,,,this era is the era of big bodybuilders,,,you dont get to be big by sittinng at the gym for 3 hours 7 days  week. ripped cut and chiseled - yes,,, big as in high muscle mass,,um no.

i don't disagree with you on almost all the points you've made, but i just can't see how it is possible to gain BODYWEIGHT from a pump by itself during a work out, to the exclusion of ANY consumption of food or water during the work out.

if your making the point that, along with the pump, one is consuming water/electrolites/food/beverage or a combination of all 3 then i would have no reason to doubt you. with the combination of insulin, gh and steroids, no doubt you would be retaining water and glycogen immediately ie you would weigh more at end of work out.
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: gtbro1 on December 02, 2006, 05:25:46 PM
i don't disagree with you on almost all the points you've made, but i just can't see how it is possible to gain BODYWEIGHT from a pump by itself during a work out, to the exclusion of ANY consumption of food or water during the work out.

if your making the point that, along with the pump, one is consuming water/electrolites/food/beverage or a combination of all 3 then i would have no reason to doubt you. with the combination of insulin, gh and steroids, no doubt you would be retaining water and glycogen immediately ie you would weigh more at end of work out.


That is my opinion as well...WHERE does the extra weight come from if you do not eat or drink anything?
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: IceCold on December 04, 2006, 08:37:19 AM
Here is another question: Does a pump equal muscle growth or does the weight lifted make the muscle bigger?

i think you need both.

if you were to bench 135 for 4 sets of 15-20 reps, you would get a great pump.  but you did not tear anything down or give your body a reason to grow.

if you were to bench 405 for 2 reps, you would tear down fibers, but have no pump in the muscle.

you need to do both - lift heavy to tear fibers down so they rebuild bigger and stronger as well as get a pump.  (the process is too long too type).

i remember makrus ruhl saying how his goal is to get a pump from very heavy weights and low - moderate reps. 

that should be your goal. 
Title: Re: HOW MUCH DOES A PUMP ADD TO MUSCLE SIZE?
Post by: alexxx on December 04, 2006, 12:35:27 PM
i think you need both.

if you were to bench 135 for 4 sets of 15-20 reps, you would get a great pump.  but you did not tear anything down or give your body a reason to grow.

if you were to bench 405 for 2 reps, you would tear down fibers, but have no pump in the muscle.

you need to do both - lift heavy to tear fibers down so they rebuild bigger and stronger as well as get a pump.  (the process is too long too type).

i remember makrus ruhl saying how his goal is to get a pump from very heavy weights and low - moderate reps. 

that should be your goal. 

That makes sense!