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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: BayGBM on November 14, 2006, 02:47:07 AM
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/13/AR2006111301058.html
The urgent issue of Iraq should be decided by the people we elected, not a commission. If we'd wanted James Baker to run the country, we'd have voted for him.
The need for this Iraq Study Group, also known as the Baker commission, (and everyone agrees there is a desperate need for it) underscores how incapable and unqualified the current leadership is.
This is the third time the Bush administration has sought the counsel of experts (twice before they gathered all previous living Secretaries of State and Defense) and in so doing highlighted their own lack of expertise and ability to execute. Without supervision they have given us dead service men, maimed and wounded servicemen, and half a trillion dollars in debt . . .
This failed President has done the worst thing a leader could do: he has taken the country to a place where there are no good options. Thank god, Baker and his commission members are still alive to bail us out of this mess.
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amen
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This is a good thing. I think the president should seek counsel from former presidents and cabinet members.
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This is a good thing. I think the president should seek counsel from former presidents and cabinet members.
I think the President should have a competent foreign policy team. Alas, he doesn’t, which is why he has to intellectually outsource the Iraq problem. If the results of their ineptitude weren’t so tragic this situation would be laughable: his foreign policy team has tried everything they can think of and is failing miserably!
Now, they need a commission to come up with ideas and bail them out. :'(
Talk about dysfunction. “We want to be in power, but we have no idea what to do.” :-[
This mess has been brought to you by Cheney, Rummy, and Condi; the axis of idiots. :(
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I think the President should have a competent foreign policy team. Alas, he doesn’t, which is why he has to intellectually outsource the Iraq problem. If the results of their ineptitude weren’t so tragic this situation would be laughable: his foreign policy team has tried everything they can think of and is failing miserably!
Now, they need a commission to come up with ideas and bail them out. :'(
Talk about dysfunction. “We want to be in power, but we have no idea what to do.” :-[
This mess has been brought to you by Cheney, Rummy, and Condi; the axis of idiots. :(
I don't think his team is incompetent. They made a huge blunder in failing to effectively plan for the aftermath of the overthrow of Sadaam and the insurgent resilience. They're trying to fix that blunder. It is sort of a catch 22. If Bush does nothing and "stays the course," he will be criticized. If he takes steps to find an alternative solution, he is criticized.
And the biggest problem just resigned a few days ago.
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And the biggest problem just resigned a few days ago.
hahahahahaha
dude you were on your knees with a bottle of lube for rummy a week ago. suddenly he was the problem holding bush back from beign the legendary leader we all knew he was hahahahahaha...
hey, how many times have you fallen for the "i've got a volcano in Maui i'd like to sell you?" trick? Shit, I bet you have a lockbox full of volcanic deeds and that's your retirement plan when the economy goes kaput!
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I don't think his team is incompetent.
You are very forgiving.
Even neocons Richard Perle and Kenneth Adelman characterize the Bush team as incompetent and “deadly dysfunctional.” Tell us, would you hire this cast of characters? I wouldn’t. Where is Brent Scowcroft when we need him?
If you don’t think they are incompetent what letter grade would you give this foreign policy team A thru F?
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/12/neocons200612
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You are very forgiving.
Even neocons Richard Perle and Kenneth Adelman characterize the Bush team as incompetent and “deadly dysfunctional.” Tell us, would you hire this cast of characters? I wouldn’t. Where is Brent Scowcroft when we need him?
If you don’t think they are incompetent what letter grade would you give this foreign policy team A thru F?
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/12/neocons200612
I'd hire Powell and Rice in a heartbeat. Cheney was much better as defense sec., but he's not incompetent. Rumsfeld was as bad an appointment as Les Aspen.
Bush is doing what most presidents and governors do. Commissions are formed all the time to propose ideas. Nothing new. It's actually a sign of good leadership.
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Don’t you find it the least bit unsettling that necons who worked with or for the administration (Pearl was chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee and a former proponent of the Iraq war) describe the administration as incompetent? David Frum who wrote the “axis of evil” speech says this situation must ultimately be blamed on "failure at the center"—starting with President Bush. Something is wrong when Bush’s own people can see that, but you can’t. Maybe it’s time to invest in some critical thinking skills. :-\
Ah, well, I suppose some people will defend until the bitter end. :-[
We're still waiting for the letter grade...
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dude you were on your knees with a bottle of lube for rummy a week ago.
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA HHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAH AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH AHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
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hahahahahaha
dude you were on your knees with a bottle of lube for rummy a week ago. suddenly he was the problem holding bush back from beign the legendary leader we all knew he was hahahahahaha...
hey, how many times have you fallen for the "i've got a volcano in Maui i'd like to sell you?" trick? Shit, I bet you have a lockbox full of volcanic deeds and that's your retirement plan when the economy goes kaput!
Oh really? Why don't you quote me on Rumsfeld? ::)
The active volcanoes are on the Big Island, not Maui. ::) But I am on Maui about once a month or so. The Krispy Kreme donuts are very nice.
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Don’t you find it the least bit unsettling that necons who worked with or for the administration (Pearl was chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee and a former proponent of the Iraq war) describe the administration as incompetent? David Frum who wrote the “axis of evil” speech says this situation must ultimately be blamed on "failure at the center"—starting with President Bush. Something is wrong when Bush’s own people can see that, but you can’t. Maybe it’s time to invest in some critical thinking skills. :-\
Ah, well, I suppose some people will defend until the bitter end. :-[
We're still waiting for the letter grade...
Doesn't bother me one bit. Some of Bush's "people" have criticized him? Stop the presses. Whomever holds office is attacked, sometimes by his own people. Conservatives thought Clinton was da debil. I recall a "documentary" that even accused Clinton of murder. I'm sure 240 owns that one.
But the point of this thread was that the forming of a commission is an admission of failure. That's not true. Commissions, panels, ad hoc committees, etc. are very common.
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hahahahahaha you won't rank Bush A thru F. Just like you refused to say whether or not you'd support a second 911 investigation if there was proof Bush knew about the attacks and did nothing!
Beach Bum is scared of his own shadow.
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hahahahahaha you won't rank Bush A thru F. Just like you refused to say whether or not you'd support a second 911 investigation if there was proof Bush knew about the attacks and did nothing!
Beach Bum is scared of his own shadow.
I tell you what 240, you find the numerous quotes by me supporting Rumsfeld, and I'll give Bush a grade.
You need to put a smile on man. You have too much invested in this conspiracy stuff. Are you happy?
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I tell you what 240, you find the numerous quotes by me supporting Rumsfeld, and I'll give Bush a grade.
You need to put a smile on man. You have too much invested in this conspiracy stuff. Are you happy?
of course i'm happy. I'm joining in the blind, fuck-with-people style instead of using evidence and examples. Most people here would throw a handwritten 911 Inside JOb letter in the fireplace and refuse to look at a mountain of evidence on the real reasons we're in iraq, so I thought I'd just have fun here like everyone else.
Beachy, are you saying you were critical of Rummy BEFORE he left? Okay, then which members of the Bush staff are you critical of now? (Hint: Your answer will be none ;) )
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of course i'm happy. I'm joining in the blind, f**k-with-people style instead of using evidence and examples. Most people here would throw a handwritten 911 Inside JOb letter in the fireplace and refuse to look at a mountain of evidence on the real reasons we're in iraq, so I thought I'd just have fun here like everyone else.
Beachy, are you saying you were critical of Rummy BEFORE he left? Okay, then which members of the Bush staff are you critical of now? (Hint: Your answer will be none ;) )
I don't know you, but you sure don't sound happy. You've got about 10 conspiracies in the hopper. This appears to be your life. Lighten up and enjoy yourself. Make more babies. Do volunteer work. Save your pennies and visit Hawaii. :)
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nah, I hear hawaii is full of irrational people who bury their head in the sand ;)
I'm trying to hit the higher levels of Maslow, ya know? I do the fmaily thing every day. But I take a little time each day for political activism, to spread what I believe to be important truths that others are scared of, or just haven't seen yet.
My "10 conspiracies in the hopper" are ten lies which you have swallowed (although I don't know that I have ten). You do nothing to improve society but insult people trying to help.
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Sheeple are Americas biggest threat. :-\
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Talk about the pot . . . . ::) Dude you call folks names every single day on this board. It doesn't help get your point across at all.
And yes, I do make fun of you. I'm trying to stop. Because you take this stuff so seriously, my ridicule is sort of mean. I'm working on it. But it ain't easy!
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hahahahahaha you won't rank Bush A thru F.
'nuff said. :(
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'nuff said. :(
I
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I
aahahahaha
no balls.
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And the biggest problem just resigned a few days ago.
Amen!
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Um, if Rumsfeld was the biggest problem, why did Bush and Cheney let him keep his job for 6 years?
If I hire an idiot employee, he is an idiot the first day. But every day I keep him on staff - even when his actions kill thousands and the world keeps telling me how bad a job he's doing - well, those days are my own fault.
To crap on Rummy after bush backed him for so long is a pussy move.
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Much like Bush... you appear immune to facts. :-[
When Condi is warned by Clark, Clinton, the FBI, and others & gets memos entitled "Bin Laden Determined to strike in the US" and fails to connect the dots...
When the secretary of Defense loses the confidence of nearly all the generals and is forced out...
When Colin Powell calls his appearance at the UN the low point of his career...
When assistant secretary of defense under Reagan, & Iraq war hawk, Richard Pearl calls the administration incompetent...
When David Frum says this situation must ultimately be blamed on "failure at the center"—starting with President Bush...
When you have to call in every living former secretary of defense and state (twice) for advice and counsel...
When you have to form a Baker commission because your foreign policy team has taken you a place with no good options...
there is only one grade to give: F
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Um, if Rumsfeld was the biggest problem, why did Bush and Cheney let him keep his job for 6 years?
If I hire an idiot employee, he is an idiot the first day. But every day I keep him on staff - even when his actions kill thousands and the world keeps telling me how bad a job he's doing - well, those days are my own fault.
To crap on Rummy after bush backed him for so long is a pussy move.
I posted this some months ago... it seems fitting to repost it here.
In some respects, it’s too late to fire him (and I don’t just mean the 2000+ dead soldiers).
If you fire him now, you will basically be admitting that he has done a poor job over the last year, or two years, or three years, and the question then becomes, why didn’t you fire him sooner? In other words, your failure to fire him sooner shows that you (the president) don’t know what you’re doing either. And that gets people questioning a) your competance, b) what are we doing in Iraq anyway, and c) why haven’t you caught Osama Bin Laden?
If you fire him now, you will clearly be doing so because the people you are supposed to be leading (the generals) have basically risen up against you and Rummy and exposed you as idiots. Not a good position for a leader to be in. :-[
If you fire him now, you will be admiting that you have been way behind the curve or out of touch because critics have called for his removal for at least a couple years now. Why didn’t our “leader” notice the problems years ago?
Like that Carole King song says, “It’s too late, baby, now it’s too late...”
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Much like Bush... you appear immune to facts. :-[
Not really. We just disagree.
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Not really. We just disagree.
You will make a statement *(like it was all rummy's fault), then when presented which evidence showing that to be incorrect, you'll just call it a difference of opinion.
Facts are facts. For the sake of arguments, back up your statements man.
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You will make a statement *(like it was all rummy's fault), then when presented which evidence showing that to be incorrect, you'll just call it a difference of opinion.
Facts are facts. For the sake of arguments, back up your statements man.
What statements did I make 240?
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What statements did I make 240?
And the biggest problem just resigned a few days ago.
If the 'biggest problem' is rummy... well, wouldn't the BIGGER problem be Bush, who let Rummy fuck things up for 6 years?
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If the 'biggest problem' is rummy... well, wouldn't the BIGGER problem be Bush, who let Rummy f**k things up for 6 years?
That is an opinion. ::) I never liked Rumsfeld. I've been down on him for years. In my OPINION, he was a terrible choice. I'm glad he's gone.
But I don't judge Bush's entire presidency on a bad cabinet appointment. Just like I don't consider Clinton's presidency a failure because he nominated Jocelyn Elders. Or because he had Les Aspen as defense sec., who was arguably responsible for the murder of our boys in Somalia.
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Can't you rate his presidency though Beach? I mean, you don't feel like theres enough to judge him on yet or?
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That is an opinion. ::) I never liked Rumsfeld. I've been down on him for years. In my OPINION, he was a terrible choice. I'm glad he's gone.
But I don't judge Bush's entire presidency on a bad cabinet appointment. Just like I don't consider Clinton's presidency a failure because he nominated Jocelyn Elders. Or because he had Les Aspen as defense sec., who was arguably responsible for the murder of our boys in Somalia.
You said the biggest problem was Rummy.
in ANY situation, isn't the bigger problem the guy who sees this problem and lets it remain for a long period of time? The rotting fish in my fridge might be a big problem... but my inability to clean out the fridge is what allows this problem to continue.
God you stink like like neocon taint. grow a fucking set man.
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Can't you rate his presidency though Beach? I mean, you don't feel like theres enough to judge him on yet or?
Sure. I'll rate him when he's done. Right now he gets an I (incomplete). Sort of like asking me to give my students a final grade when I have 22 midterms sitting in my house. They wouldn't like that too much. :) Lets see how he finishes off the remainder of his term and I'll look at everything, e.g., taxes, homeland security, terrorism, the war, home buying, education, health care, etc., etc.
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You said the biggest problem was Rummy.
in ANY situation, isn't the bigger problem the guy who sees this problem and lets it remain for a long period of time? The rotting fish in my fridge might be a big problem... but my inability to clean out the fridge is what allows this problem to continue.
God you stink like like neocon taint. grow a fucking set man.
I cannot explain it any better than I did 240. If you're not smart enough to figure it out then you should take some more correspondence courses. HTH. :)
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BB,
can you rate his first term? ;)
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I cannot explain it any better than I did 240. If you're not smart enough to figure it out then you should take some more correspondence courses. HTH. :)
I'll def sign up for the neocon online training! :D
in the meantime, what is the bigger problem, the rotting fish in the fridge, or the guy who left it there and won't throw it away?
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BB,
can you rate his first term? ;)
I could, but why? So you could make some asinine comment? I'll pass. :)
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Sure. I'll rate him when he's done. Right now he gets an I (incomplete). Sort of like asking me to give my students a final grade when I have 22 midterms sitting in my house. They wouldn't like that too much. :) Lets see how he finishes off the remainder of his term and I'll look at everything, e.g., taxes, homeland security, terrorism, the war, home buying, education, health care, etc., etc.
Fair enough, but lay off the "neocon taint". (Good one 240)
LOL
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I could, but why? So you could make some asinine comment? I'll pass. :)
tell me... are you scared to say anything negative about the current admin? you know as an American you are afforded this right - to speak your mind. You don't have to blindly follow dude.
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tell me... are you scared to say anything negative about the current admin? you know as an American you are afforded this right - to speak your mind. You don't have to blindly follow dude.
I might . . . if you weren't a few fries short of a Happy Meal.
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I might . . . if you weren't a few fries short of a Happy Meal.
Right. My use of evidence, study of world events and history, plain ol' common sense, and an inability to swallow lies make me the idiot here.
::)
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Neocon Kenneth Adelman: "The most dispiriting and awful moment of the whole administration was the day that Bush gave the Presidential Medal of Freedom to [former C.I.A. director] George Tenet, General Tommy Franks, and [Coalition Provisional Authority chief] Jerry [Paul] Bremer—three of the most incompetent people who've ever served in such key spots. And they get the highest civilian honor a president can bestow on anyone! That was the day I checked out of this administration. It was then I thought, There's no seriousness here, these are not serious people. If he had been serious, the president would have realized that those three are each directly responsible for the disaster of Iraq."
Former Bush speechwriter David Frum: "I always believed as a speechwriter that if you could persuade the president to commit himself to certain words, he would feel himself committed to the ideas that underlay those words. And the big shock to me has been that although the president said the words, he just did not absorb the ideas. And that is the root of, maybe, everything."
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Neocon Kenneth Adelman: "The most dispiriting and awful moment of the whole administration was the day that Bush gave the Presidential Medal of Freedom to [former C.I.A. director] George Tenet, General Tommy Franks, and [Coalition Provisional Authority chief] Jerry [Paul] Bremer—three of the most incompetent people who've ever served in such key spots. And they get the highest civilian honor a president can bestow on anyone! That was the day I checked out of this administration. It was then I thought, There's no seriousness here, these are not serious people. If he had been serious, the president would have realized that those three are each directly responsible for the disaster of Iraq."
Former Bush speechwriter David Frum: "I always believed as a speechwriter that if you could persuade the president to commit himself to certain words, he would feel himself committed to the ideas that underlay those words. And the big shock to me has been that although the president said the words, he just did not absorb the ideas. And that is the root of, maybe, everything."
Those damn liberals.
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The Story Behind The Iraq Study Group
How Va. Lawmaker Pushed for Panel
By Lyndsey Layton, Washington Post Staff Writer
On his third trip to Iraq, in September 2005, Rep. Frank R. Wolf (R-Va.) knew the American mission was imperiled.
"We were up in Tikrit and went to a hospital, and it was guarded with guns and security to the point they were pushing weapons into women's faces," Wolf said. "I saw we can't be successful if we're going into an operating room with pistols and weapons."
That's when the congressman from Vienna first began to think about the need for "fresh eyes" to scrutinize U.S. policy regarding Iraq. Quietly, he went to the White House and presented his plan: a bipartisan commission of well-respected policymakers to bore deeply into the Iraq dilemma and recommend solutions.
"If you ordered an Erector Set and you were trying to build it before Christmas and you got stuck and someone else came along, they might just see immediately what needs to be done," Wolf said. "Or if you had a health-care problem, you'd want a second opinion. It's all about fresh eyes on a target."
The result is the Iraq Study Group, led by Republican former secretary of state James A. Baker III and Democratic former congressman Lee H. Hamilton (Ind.), who was a vice chairman of the panel that investigated the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. The group has taken on greater relevance after midterm elections marked by widespread voter dissatisfaction with Iraq, and it will play a decisive role in reshaping the U.S. position on Iraq, according to lawmakers and administration officials.
Initially, the White House was cool to the idea, Wolf said. But he was able to win over Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld followed, as did national security adviser Stephen J. Hadley. "Rice's support was key," Wolf said. "But I had to have the support of everybody or there would be no way to do this."
The composition of the study group was also crucial.
"You had to get a group not connected to the administration, people who were not going to be campaigning and who could come to a consensus," he said. "We wanted a bipartisan group, people senior enough that they weren't looking to get placed in a law firm or good job. The test was: Do you love your country?"
The study group, composed of five Democrats and five Republicans, was created in March to assess the situation in Iraq, its impact on the surrounding region and its consequences for U.S. interests. The group's work has been guided by several smaller committees of experts on topics such as the economy and reconstruction, military and security, and political development.
Wolf got Congress to appropriate $1 million for the project. To select the panel's members, he turned to the U.S. Institute for Peace, an independent nonpartisan organization created and funded by Congress. One of its goals is to promote stability after a conflict.
"It's a tremendous dilemma, a difficult situation" in which Congress "was looking for alternatives and the fall election was reinforcing the polarization of attitudes," said Richard H. Solomon, president of the institute. "We were creating the study group to build a political middle."
Wolf said he hopes that the group's recommendations, expected to be delivered to President Bush and Congress next month, will reconnect a nation splintered by war.
"When our country is together, we're strong -- Truman and Roosevelt showed that," he said. "When we're divided, I think the country's going to be in trouble. I hope something good comes from this, that we can develop consensus."