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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Lugar on November 24, 2006, 05:34:41 AM
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my gym has been closed so I trained with a good friend of mine who competes a few times a year and he swears by OVT.....it's like German Volume although instead of 10x10, it's 5x5.....tried it two days ago with him on Chest and then yesterday with Delts...stupid to do those back to back, but all in all, it was a pretty freaking humbling experience....135 on incline press 5 of 5 felt like 410 around rep 4 of sets 4 and 5....it's the 6 sec down 2 up that gets ya, plus supersetts with flys, same method....anyone train this way? Results?
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All are effective IMO, all part of the same approach. GVT was just one variation.
6 x 6, 8 x 8, 10 x 10, 5 x 5; fairly arbitrary in fact,. 7 x 7 or 9 x 9 works. Each should be tried, as they'll provide a somewhat different effect.
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how were your results?
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how were your results?
All of them are good. Better to judge for oneself by using each for a month or two using trial & error. The only practical difference is that with lower reps 5 or 6 the warmup becomes even more important due to the higher potential joint stresses.
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the only problem is #1, I hate doing chest/back in the same session...one always lags..so I did chest solo and will do back solo, incorporting one more superset......the bqack routine doesn't have deads in it, but the leg routine does....is that ok....my back mass won't suffer from just barbell rows as the foundation? Maybe toss in rack deads as my final superset? With dbell row?
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Back mass won't suffer, virtually all of the size comes from rows, chins & pullovers. No problem splitting lower and upper back; if done, the only thing to avoid is doing them on consecutive days, as each day will hit the back in general & require a subsequent rest day.
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Can you give me a solid sample of a back routine for this? Is this solid?
Narrow Grip Pullups 5 5 0
1 Arm Cable Rowing 5 5 120
Supinated Grip Pulldowns 5 5 0
1 Arm Dumbell Rows 5 5 120
Lat Pulldowns 5 5 0
1 Arm Cable Rowing 5 5 120
Bent Over Barbell Rowing 5 5 0
Seated Cable Rowing 5 5 120
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You're doing all of that in one workout? You're doing too many versions of the same thing.
Choose one exercise of each type, do 4-5 sets each, max.
-Pulldown or chins
-Rows
-Pullovers
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Can you give me a solid sample of a back routine for this? Is this solid?
Bent Over Barbell Rowing 5 5 0
Seated Cable Rowing 5 5 120
Lat Pulldowns (wide) 5 5 0
Dbell rows 5 5 120
Narrow Grip Pulldowns 5 5 0
pulloverrs 5 5 120
Rack deads 5 5 120
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Any bent over rowing (including cable rows) motions, BB or DB, affects the lower back very strongly. Even lat pull/chin hit the lower back to a lesser degree. It is quite hard to separate the upper back from the lower part when doing a standard back workout. As far as the program listed by Lugar, too, too many redundant exercise, as The Pumpster suggested. Have not had the opportunity to see any program's listed as 5 5 0 or 120 so am assuming that would be zero rest and than 120 second rest after. If the 2 second up and 6 second down (negative) works well for you, than fine.
OVT is not like GVT. The 5X5 approach is a basic mass/strength program that has been used probable for over 60 years . The original concept was squats, BB rows and bench's in the same three day a week workout. Called the Big Three for good reason. (I pray to God that Lugar is not doing all those back exercises in one workout...yikes!) Progressing up (5 reps) to the highest weight used at the third set, than doing whatever to keep the rep range at 5 for the last two sets. All those programs , like 3X3,5X5, 8X8, 10X10, each have a different theme; BB'ing, strength/power, muscle mass, muscle refinement, etc. But they are all, or should be, the same in that the rep's are meant to be constant. Example; 5X5...5 reps only, 8X8...8 reps only, etc throughout each set.
I'm not a big find of high volume BB'ing sets (tends to be self defeating) for anyone but if Lugar wants to experiment with any extended version of 5X5's than he might consider the following:
DL...Biggest compound exercises are usually done first
BB row...curl grip...elbows in
Chin...Hammer grip...elbows in
5X5 each exercise...once a week for most. Feel free to include chest work in the same day, but your best move would to have a individual day for chest. Like monday-back...wednsday-leg...friday-chest. Throw in a few sets of those sissy arm exercises at the end of a workout if you wish. Good Luck.
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A1. Front squat 5 5 201 None
A2. Step-ups 5 5 602 120 seconds
B1. Natural glute-ham raise 5 5 201 None
B2. Leg curl 5 5 602 120 seconds
C1. Sumo deadlift 5 5 201 None
C2. Romanian deadlift 5 5 602 120 seconds
legs for today
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I personally like to do 5x5's for bicpes & chest.
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I'll tell you what, I have sort of ad libbed this routine...instead of worrying so much with TUT, which many believe is garbage, I am still really concentrating on full form versus weights but using the 5x5 method on 4 exercises per bodypart supersetting 2 at a time. My leg routine had me crawling out of the gym......
I got chest today.......thinking about
DBELL BENCH 5X5
FLAT DBELL FLYS 3X8
INCLINE BARBELL BENCH 5X5
INCLINE FLYS 3X8
DECLINE BENCH 5X5
DIPS 3X8
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As far as TUT (Time Under Tension) goes, think of a sprinters calf's and leg's. Muscular & powerful looking. Extreme tension/force for a relative short distance. Than compare those leg's/calf's with a long distance runner. TUT is one of many well respected method for increasing hypertrophy.
A SS will fall with-in the class of TUT. That chest program is 6 exercises, not the 4 per body part you suggested. Thirty set's for the chest, including those SS's, might mean that you are preforming TUT & volume training all in the same workout. Defeats the original purpose of 5X5 training (why 5X8's for fly's & dips I wonder). But what ever makes you happy and if your getting results, so be it. Good Luck.
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wow...great stuff......how would u finagle the above to meet the goals.......mass.
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I'll tell you what, I have sort of ad libbed this routine...instead of worrying so much with TUT, which many believe is garbage, I am still really concentrating on full form versus weights but using the 5x5 method on 4 exercises per bodypart supersetting 2 at a time. My leg routine had me crawling out of the gym......
I got chest today.......thinking about
DBELL BENCH 5X5
FLAT DBELL FLYS 3X8
INCLINE BARBELL BENCH 5X5
INCLINE FLYS 3X8
DECLINE BENCH 5X5
DIPS 3X8
The idea is to take ONE EXERCISE, and do 5 x 5 or 8 x 8. ONE MUSCLE = ONE EXERCISE. That's IT.
If you choose to do something else fine but that becomes very high volume instead, not at all the same thing. High volume isn't needed by most for gains, and is extra work for little or no benefit.
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you realise that there's no slow and controlled negative during a sprint, though?
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Lugar: There are fast and controlled negatives in running. One of the reasons the ham's are very important to train for any track athlete. For extension and contraction of the leg/knee/calf, ankle, etc.
As far as your recent wondering about mass....it's in this thread. Just reread everything again. Sometimes we can't see the forest for the tree's. Good Luck.