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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: G on November 27, 2006, 08:27:08 PM
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What kind of a cycle do you prefer? For me personally everything after the 10th week is a waste of time and money! I'm a follower of Paul Borressen ideas 6 week cylcle on a high dosage, 15 - 20 day off and then do it again.Since I start doing it a have a lot less side effects and better gains.
Discuss!
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Typically the 16-20wk range. 2 reasons, some drugs take a while to kick in, i.e. deca, test, etc...running short cycles they kick in and then you immediately jump off. 2nd, and the most important IMO, the fight against homeostasis. If you run longer cycles like this and do so correctly gains can be made the entire time.
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I agree 8-10 weeks of megadosing is better.
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I agree 8-10 weeks of megadosing is better.
Out of curiosity, what do you define as "megadosing?"
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Typically the 16-20wk range. 2 reasons, some drugs take a while to kick in, i.e. deca, test, etc...running short cycles they kick in and then you immediately jump off. 2nd, and the most important IMO, the fight against homeostasis. If you run longer cycles like this and do so correctly gains can be made the entire time.
i personally know many people who do 1 cycle all year long and at the end of the year take a few weeks off, and they keep gaining for all 12 month.But long cycles never worked for me.I 've tried a 12 month cycle, an 8 month, 4-6 month and short ones and i noticed that I don't make any gains after the 7 - 8 th week.
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I've done the 8 month deal, but I think from now on 6 months will be the longest I ever go...for the most part I'll stick with 16-20wks, 8-10wks off repeat.
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Out of curiosity, what do you define as "megadosing?"
I dont mean megadosing but a good bulking cycle will look like that:
250 mg Sust/omnadren ed
200mg Deca/100mg Winny ed
150-200 mg test prop ed
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I dont mean megadosing but a good bulking cycle will look like that:
250 mg Sust/omnadren ed
200mg Deca/100mg Winny ed
150-200 mg test prop ed
That's mega in my book
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That's mega in my book
My book as well...
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What kind of a cycle do you prefer? For me personally everything after the 10th week is a waste of time and money! I'm a follower of Paul Borressen ideas 6 week cylcle on a high dosage, 15 - 20 day off and then do it again.Since I start doing it a have a lot less side effects and better gains.
Discuss!
Depends on genetics, how you respond to AAS and each compound specifically.
Many factors.....
I have never tried a 6 week megadosing cycle.
I tend to think it's counterproductive due to the fluctuation in hormone levels.
DIV
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I dont mean megadosing but a good bulking cycle will look like that:
250 mg Sust/omnadren ed
200mg Deca/100mg Winny ed
150-200 mg test prop ed
this is exactly what im talking about. its best too just use higher doses for shorter periods and get in more cycles per year. you would be surprised what can be done in 8-10 weeks.
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this is exactly what im talking about. its best too just use higher doses for shorter periods and get in more cycles per year. you would be surprised what can be done in 8-10 weeks.
Amen to that! 8)
But afterall we all gotta do what works best for us.What works best for me might not work for somebody else! ;)
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My book as well...
Mine too.
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That's insane...
I'd like to see your values after running a blast cycle like that...
8)
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YOU GUYS ARE ALL RIGHT,BUT IF THIS GUY DOESN'T TRAIN VICIOUS AND EAT VICIOUS NOTHIN WILL HAPPEN..YA HEARD... ;D ;D
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That's insane...
I'd like to see your values after running a blast cycle like that...
8)
I think it's a waste of AAS......way too short to do anything, IMO.
DIV
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i agree with arnold i think the longer you run a cycle the better chance you have of altering your homeostasis and keeping your gains, that is within reason. 16-24 weeks is ideal
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I think longer and more moderate is best for long term gains. Too much turning off and on of your HPTA is not good. Each time you come back it is harder the next time.
I like to gain about 25 lbs then drop 20 lbs of lard over a long period, while maintaining more lean mass. Your weight may not have gone up much but your body compossition is much better. Currently for this "cycle" I'm on I was up to 230lbs (5'7") have come down to much harder 205lbs and now people are saying how good I look at this lower weight. Cause I kept most of the muscle and dropped the fat, and this takes time to do, have to do it gradually. just slowly tightening the screws on the diet.
I was talking a little while ago with a friend and he is a good BB competitor and quite a bit younger than me. He said something I always knew but have kind of not paid attention to and that is, while on gear you can hold a lot more muscle while dieting. Probally one of the biggest advantages of gear is that for a BB or anyone after that type of physique.
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I think longer and more moderate is best for long term gains. Too much turning off and on of your HPTA is not good. Each time you come back it is harder the next time.
I like to gain about 25 lbs then drop 20 lbs of lard over a long period, while maintaining more lean mass. Your weight may not have gone up much but your body compossition is much better. Currently for this "cycle" I'm on I was up to 230lbs (5'7") have come down to much harder 205lbs and now people are saying how good I look at this lower weight. Cause I kept most of the muscle and dropped the fat, and this takes time to do, have to do it gradually. just slowly tightening the screws on the diet.
I was talking a little while ago with a friend and he is a good BB competitor and quite a bit younger than me. He said something I always knew but have kind of not paid attention to and that is, while on gear you can hold a lot more muscle while dieting. Probally one of the biggest advantages of gear is that for a BB or anyone after that type of physique.
Hurt2Luv,
You are exactly right on that point.
I noticed this as well.
Running something light like 500MG Sustanon ew/100MG Tren ed I can literally get away with very low carbs and still keep positive nitrogen balance.
Whereas if I wasn't on anything, I'd definitely feel it if I was training the same but not eating sufficient carbs.
Of course, I'd rather eat, but haven't had the time the last couple weeks due to my job.
DIV
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YOU GUYS ARE ALL RIGHT,BUT IF THIS GUY DOESN'T TRAIN VICIOUS AND EAT VICIOUS NOTHIN WILL HAPPEN..YA HEARD... ;D ;D
Well actually it will happen, but of course you'll have greater results when the nutrition and training are perfect!
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I think longer and more moderate is best for long term gains. Too much turning off and on of your HPTA is not good. Each time you come back it is harder the next time.
I like to gain about 25 lbs then drop 20 lbs of lard over a long period, while maintaining more lean mass. Your weight may not have gone up much but your body compossition is much better. Currently for this "cycle" I'm on I was up to 230lbs (5'7") have come down to much harder 205lbs and now people are saying how good I look at this lower weight. Cause I kept most of the muscle and dropped the fat, and this takes time to do, have to do it gradually. just slowly tightening the screws on the diet.
I was talking a little while ago with a friend and he is a good BB competitor and quite a bit younger than me. He said something I always knew but have kind of not paid attention to and that is, while on gear you can hold a lot more muscle while dieting. Probally one of the biggest advantages of gear is that for a BB or anyone after that type of physique.
Perfect reply L2H!
I think I've mentioned before that my training partner is natural but even so he has a great build and has done well comp wise. However he's never been able to come in as big as he'd like because of being natural. He puts on the size and strength during the off-season, so much so that hardly anyone believes he's natural...I'd be willing to bet that he could put a lot of users on here to shame. Anyway back to the point...he took off from competing all last year so he could build a better base before he competes again...he had been competing a lot and needed a break. He's hoping that this extra bulk he's been able to build up will help him come in heavier...but as well as he's done this past long off-season of his, it will be interesting to see if he can pull this off. I know he should be a little bigger then he ever was but I would hate to see him waste all this new found muscle mass, because without AAS he is going to be hard pressed to come in with a massive difference IMO. I guess we'll wait and see.
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Hurt2Luv,
You are exactly right on that point.
I noticed this as well.
Running something light like 500MG Sustanon ew/100MG Tren ed I can literally get away with very low carbs and still keep positive nitrogen balance.
Whereas if I wasn't on anything, I'd definitely feel it if I was training the same but not eating sufficient carbs.
Of course, I'd rather eat, but haven't had the time the last couple weeks due to my job.
DIV
Yep, that kind of lite cycle is plenty to gain on and keep gains while you diet. Sounds like you are doing PT as your new job? Thats cool it must be great to do something you enjoy for a living, plus making money and seeing people progress has to be fulfilling. I see these women and guys come to gym and get a trainer and they are just trying to better themselves and I have lots of respect for that and always hope they do well and reach their goals. Something about them feels vunerable and innocent and the trainer is really there helping their confidence, it seems very admirable to me.
Perfect reply L2H!
I think I've mentioned before that my training partner is natural but even so he has a great build and has done well comp wise. However he's never been able to come in as big as he'd like because of being natural. He puts on the size and strength during the off-season, so much so that hardly anyone believes he's natural...I'd be willing to bet that he could put a lot of users on here to shame. Anyway back to the point...he took off from competing all last year so he could build a better base before he competes again...he had been competing a lot and needed a break. He's hoping that this extra bulk he's been able to build up will help him come in heavier...but as well as he's done this past long off-season of his, it will be interesting to see if he can pull this off. I know he should be a little bigger then he ever was but I would hate to see him waste all this new found muscle mass, because without AAS he is going to be hard pressed to come in with a massive difference IMO. I guess we'll wait and see.
Yep thats why most true naturals have a hard time getting that big, full look onstage. They lose lots of muscle during the diet.
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Yep, that kind of lite cycle is plenty to gain on and keep gains while you diet. Sounds like you are doing PT as your new job? Thats cool it must be great to do something you enjoy for a living, plus making money and seeing people progress has to be fulfilling. I see these women and guys come to gym and get a trainer and they are just trying to better themselves and I have lots of respect for that and always hope they do well and reach their goals. Something about them feels vunerable and innocent and the trainer is really there helping their confidence, it seems very admirable to me.
I like working with the people who give 100% effort and I can tell which ones those are.
I don't like working with the clients who complain about physical exertion, limit what exercises I can put them through, then say they aren't seeing results.
There are positive and negatives to the job, just like anywhere.
If you are single without responsibility, the money is decent, but not great provided that the hours are there.
I'm doing this for experience and because I like seeing results in people.
It's not my longterm goal by any means....
I am the only trainer at my gym who looks like a "lifter" rather than a "fitness buff".
DIV
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I like working with the people who give 100% effort and I can tell which ones those are.
I don't like working with the clients who complain about physical exertion, limit what exercises I can put them through, then say they aren't seeing results.
There are positive and negatives to the job, just like anywhere.
If you are single without responsibility, the money is decent, but not great provided that the hours are there.
I'm doing this for experience and because I like seeing results in people.
It's not my longterm goal by any means....
I am the only trainer at my gym who looks like a "lifter" rather than a "fitness buff".
DIV
Are you doing the PT full time? I ask because I'll be getting my cert this Feb. and I'm curios as to how that has worked out for you.
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Are you doing the PT full time? I ask because I'll be getting my cert this Feb. and I'm curios as to how that has worked out for you.
Part time......for now.
Partly because I want to gradually work up my hours so I don't get burned out and also because I need experience.
It wouldn't be wise to take on a 40 hour work week starting out.
Have any idea how many clients that is?
DIV
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Part time......for now.
Partly because I want to gradually work up my hours so I don't get burned out and also because I need experience.
It wouldn't be wise to take on a 40 hour work week starting out.
Have any idea how many clients that is?
DIV
Yeah that would be a shit load of clients, but it would be a shit load of money too.
I figure when I start I'll have to take time to build up my clientale, luckily the job I have now will allow me to float easy between the two until I can phase the current job out all together.
Another quick question, are you picky with your clients? Meaning do you have a preference as to the type of person you train or will you take anyone willing to pay? I'd prefer to only train serious lifters, people with BB goals, but in the beginning I'm going to be eager and willing to take anyone willing to pay the fee.
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Yeah that would be a shit load of clients, but it would be a shit load of money too.
I figure when I start I'll have to take time to build up my clientale, luckily the job I have now will allow me to float easy between the two until I can phase the current job out all together.
Another quick question, are you picky with your clients? Meaning do you have a preference as to the type of person you train or will you take anyone willing to pay? I'd prefer to only train serious lifters, people with BB goals, but in the beginning I'm going to be eager and willing to take anyone willing to pay the fee.
Right now I'm taking anyone and I need the experience training all kinds of people, esp the hard cases (elderly, out of shape housewives, kids..etc), so it doesn't matter.
Training serious lifters is easy and that is tailor-made for me but most of those guys don't pay for trainers.
I didn't......
I have two clients who are wanting to bulk-up, but they are middle-aged so I am taking it slow and showing them form on the basic compound movements.
The harder cases I get in the beginning only makes the whole process easier later.
DIV
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Curious what certification you have? Im gonna be going for my NSCA this summer. But anyways, I have noticed that a lot of gyms I work out at when I travel will hire almost anyone with anykind of certification and I find that misleading at times, because any Joe-shmo can get a certificate online.
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that's exactly what i'm talking about:
QUOTE:
(from BUILDING THE PERFECT BEAST by L. REA)
"The Body Has Action/Reaction Periods and Factors
The body has Action/Reaction periods and factors. Basically the body begins to
significantly to most attempts at altering homeostasis after 2-3 weeks. This
sucked since the best results from a cycle usually came during days #10-30. But we
profited from this information and used it to Frank's advantage by utilizing brief
phases and cycles of 21-30 days, (this is the point where cycles provided serious
results) then got out before side effects out weighed benefits.
"To be successful it is necessary to create maximum growth thresholds and stop
before the body is able to achieve its own counter measure thresholds."
Action/Reaction
Let me explain. My experience has been that a cycle of 8 weeks providing a
continuous plasma level weekly of 400-800 mg testosterone begins to fail to provide
results about week #6 in most cases. This is because the level of endogenous
catabolic hormones becomes elevated as a reaction to the exogenous testosterone
administration and cellular signaling proteins begin to become overwhelmed, which is
due to the action of increase androgens. So anabolism and catabolism are again
about equal. Remember to create a growth environment one or both sides of the
anabolic/catabolic ratio must be altered in favor of either more tissue building or less
tissue wasting.
At the 6 weeks point an athlete's body produces and maintains somewhat
higher cortisol levels than normal. An increase in the administered dosage would
again overwhelm the cortisol and increase signaling protein activity, but eventually it
will catch up...again. Worse yet, when the athlete goes off cycle, the elevated levels of
catabolic hormones overwhelm the declining anabolic chemistry (and activity) and
most of the cycle gains are lost."
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that's exactly what i'm talking about:
QUOTE:
(from BUILDING THE PERFECT BEAST by L. REA)
"The Body Has Action/Reaction Periods and Factors
The body has Action/Reaction periods and factors. Basically the body begins to
significantly to most attempts at altering homeostasis after 2-3 weeks. This
sucked since the best results from a cycle usually came during days #10-30. But we
profited from this information and used it to Frank's advantage by utilizing brief
phases and cycles of 21-30 days, (this is the point where cycles provided serious
results) then got out before side effects out weighed benefits.
"To be successful it is necessary to create maximum growth thresholds and stop
before the body is able to achieve its own counter measure thresholds."
Action/Reaction
Let me explain. My experience has been that a cycle of 8 weeks providing a
continuous plasma level weekly of 400-800 mg testosterone begins to fail to provide
results about week #6 in most cases. This is because the level of endogenous
catabolic hormones becomes elevated as a reaction to the exogenous testosterone
administration and cellular signaling proteins begin to become overwhelmed, which is
due to the action of increase androgens. So anabolism and catabolism are again
about equal. Remember to create a growth environment one or both sides of the
anabolic/catabolic ratio must be altered in favor of either more tissue building or less
tissue wasting.
At the 6 weeks point an athlete's body produces and maintains somewhat
higher cortisol levels than normal. An increase in the administered dosage would
again overwhelm the cortisol and increase signaling protein activity, but eventually it
will catch up...again. Worse yet, when the athlete goes off cycle, the elevated levels of
catabolic hormones overwhelm the declining anabolic chemistry (and activity) and
most of the cycle gains are lost."
Did Author L. Rea do a scientific study to come to the conclusion that the best results came between day10-30?
I'd like that information....
DIV
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I know for a fact that such scientific study has been done - i've read it before in a few other articles, but i don't think that L. Rea is the one who's done it.The whole point is that approx. around week 6, anabolic hormones levels and cortisol levels are almost equal, and that's when you reach the plateu.From there you can either increase the dosage or stop the cycle!
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I know for a fact that such scientific study has been done - i've read it before in a few other articles, but i don't think that L. Rea is the one who's done it.The whole point is that approx. around week 6, anabolic hormones levels and cortisol levels are almost equal, and that's when you reach the plateu.From there you can either increase the dosage or stop the cycle!
I know what the point of the study is, not questioning that at all.
I just don't buy it and I'd want more inclusive studies done accounting for all controls and parameters before I believe that 6 week cycles are the most effective.
One study won't do it for me....
DIV
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One study won't do it for me....
DIV
I agree, one study is not enough.
One thing I'd like to hear from all you "short cycle" advocates, is your theory's on comp cycles. Every thing I hear and read about these short cycles is based on a bulking cycle, and as I've said I am not a believer...and when it comes to a comp cycle, I don't see how on earth these ideas would work.
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I agree, one study is not enough.
One thing I'd like to hear from all you "short cycle" advocates, is your theory's on comp cycles. Every thing I hear and read about these short cycles is based on a bulking cycle, and as I've said I am not a believer...and when it comes to a comp cycle, I don't see how on earth these ideas would work.
It doesn't work for a cutting cycle! When i cut I do 8-12 week cycle,or as long as i reach the desired bf%, but if everything goes fine usually 10 weeks is plenty of time to go from 15- 20% to a single digit bf%!
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It doesn't work for a cutting cycle! When i cut I do 8-12 week cycle,or as long as i reach the desired bf%, but if everything goes fine usually 10 weeks is plenty of time to go from 15- 20% to a single digit bf%!
Yeah, I don't see how it would, but I know of a lot of guys who swear by it.
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Yeah, I don't see how it would, but I know of a lot of guys who swear by it.
well, the point of the short cycles is to get maximal gains with less side effects. When you re dieting you are not looking for gains, thats why i countinue my cycle for as long as i need to.In my opinion someone will gain a lot more with 3 four weeks cycles, with 15 - 20 days off in between , compared to one 5-6 month cycle!I know that for everybody works diferrently, but for me it makes a huge difference doing short cycles instead of longer ones!
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i agree with arnold i think the longer you run a cycle the better chance you have of altering your homeostasis and keeping your gains, that is within reason. 16-24 weeks is ideal
Yes, I agree with this. The longer the cycle it seems the more you 'keep' with the same training.