Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: alexxx on December 08, 2006, 08:36:24 AM
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Anybody know how he used to train? Apparently he was one of the biggest and strongest men alive before steroids where ever invented. He would do curls with 190 pound barbells!
Here is more information on his power:
"He also represented America at the 1938 World Weightlifting Championships in Vienna, this time he placed 4th. Officially in strict style, John pressed 285 lbs. In competition, He could, however in loose style, press over 300 lbs, and once settled, pressed with lots of back bend, 364 lbs. Further demonstrations of his lifting power, was his ability to jerk form the shoulders, 400 lbs. dead lift without any warm up, 600 lbs and bent press (note: that's bent not bench) near 300 lbs, i.e. side lift over head with one hand 300 lbs. John could curl poundages in excess of 200 lbs when that weight was considered a good poundage. Never an advocate of bench presses, or big pecs, despite lack of practice, John could bench press around 480 lbs after a warm up. But he maintained that heavy pec development was unsightly especially in an older man and even hindered the full expansion of the chest." -http://www.robertuniverse.com/davidgentle/grimekgentle.htm
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/grimek/jg56.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/grimek/jg190.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/grimek/jg3.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/grimek/jg68.jpg)
Anyone has any cool information or stories please feel free to share!
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Grimek was a beast, he would put any pro today to shame with his training, you basically just answered your own question with your post, he trained like the article explained, very heavy with a mixture of Olympic lifts, powerlifts and some bodybuilding stuff thrown in.
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One of my all time favorites. Amazing built. Clarence Ross too. Great physiques for the average guy to shoot.
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One of my all time favorites. Amazing built. Clarence Ross too. Great physiques for the average guy to shoot.
absolutely, i'd be more than happy being built like that.
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if he was on the same 'cocktail' the pros are on today, he would surely make jay cutler look like well....jay cutler hahahahha
Monster Worst Mr. O of all time Comparison
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Grimek was a beast, he would put any pro today to shame with his training, you basically just answered your own question with your post, he trained like the article explained, very heavy with a mixture of Olympic lifts, powerlifts and some bodybuilding stuff thrown in.
He performed those lifts three times a week? Training everyday?
I know he trained with Reeves for a while. http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/IGH/IGH0504/IGH0504u.pdf
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Anybody know how he used to train? Apparently he was one of the biggest and strongest men alive before steroids where ever invented. He would do curls with 190 pound barbells!
Have you ANY idea when steroids was invented? Before WW2, in 1930- something...and day after that first atheletes were there to test that stuff.
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He performed those lifts three times a week? Training everyday?
I know he trained with Reeves for a while. http://www.aafla.org/SportsLibrary/IGH/IGH0504/IGH0504u.pdf
not only that but those guys had to perform the Olympic lifts onstage at bodybuilding shows in those days, bb'ers today would die if they had tro do that.
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absolutely, i'd be more than happy being built like that.
me too, especially Clancy, those guys were real men too, they didn't loose themselves to any of the crap, they both had families and respectful lives outside of the gym.
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gayest picture in a long time
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/grimek/jg3.jpg)
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"hey john i've got an idea, why dont you strip down to your briefs and then hit poses in the snow!"
little did he know that squadfather and the other fruits would admire that photo decades later
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as for his training just google john grimek+training or whatever and im sure you find info
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"hey john i've got an idea, why dont you strip down to your briefs and then hit poses in the snow!"
little did he know that squadfather and the other fruits would admire that photo decades later
hahahaha, ok "bluto" you're just angry that he's not covered in baby oil and wearing a g string like todays "bodybuilders".
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hahahaha, ok "bluto" you're just angry that he's not covered in baby oil and wearing a g string like todays "bodybuilders".
todays bodybuilders are not as hardcore, they dont go half naked out in the snow posing
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Have you ANY idea when steroids was invented? Before WW2, in 1930- something...and day after that first atheletes were there to test that stuff.
whose to say if these guys used anything or not.
like everything thinks guys like reeves, etc. were natural.
funny, how most natural guys dont look like that now despite advances in supps, food, training, etc.
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whose to say if these guys used anything or not.
like everything thinks guys like reeves, etc. were natural.
funny, how most natural guys dont look like that now despite advances in supps, food, training, etc.
Two words. Hard work!
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Hey Alexxx, did you start your cycle yet?
you seem to be frustrated with your progress and indications are you are heading to the darkside. Finishing next to last in a online cyber contest is no reason to give up hope.
keep eating and lifting young man
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alex dont need steroids. he just need to be patient and keep doing what he's doing
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from bodybuilding.com on how he trained biceps:
"John would pick 8-12 biceps movements for each workout, and then do only one or two sets of each exercise. Many of his favorite biceps movements were actually indirect arm exercises, movements like chins performed with a narrow reverse grip.""
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I think 1) those poundages are greatly exaggerated or 2) those were dummy weights (ie. fake weights) there's no f**king way a guy in those times (let alone now) could lift up 300lbs. over his head with one arm...
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I do his deadlift with no warmup easily.
Strong dude nonetheless.
And yes Alexxx,
I have his training routine.
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I do his deadlift with no warmup easily.
Strong dude nonetheless.
And yes Alexxx,
I have his training routine.
Who gives a shit about what you have?
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I think 1) those poundages are greatly exaggerated or 2) those were dummy weights (ie. fake weights) there's no f**king way a guy in those times (let alone now) could lift up 300lbs. over his head with one arm...
What Grimek did or did not do is a matter of historical record. For the most part, today's guys couldn't carry his jockstrap.
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anabolic steroids were first mentioned in Strength and Health magazine in 1938. Grimek worked for Hoffman and Strength and Health. Grimek's physique in 1939 and 1940 was like no one elses. It is certainly possible that the first Mr America was also the first to do it with steroids.
If you want to read more about Grimek, get the book Muscletown USA: Bob Hoffman and the Manly Culture of York Barbell (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0271018550)
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Grimek was ruggedness incarnate.
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Who gives a shit about what you have?
LOL
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anabolic steroids were first mentioned in Strength and Health magazine in 1938. Grimek worked for Hoffman and Strength and Health. Grimek's physique in 1939 and 1940 was like no one elses. It is certainly possible that the first Mr America was also the first to do it with steroids.
If you want to read more about Grimek, get the book Muscletown USA: Bob Hoffman and the Manly Culture of York Barbell (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0271018550)
Tim, yes, and John Fair also wrote a treatise on the history of anabolic steroids. He documents the who, what, where, why and WHEN, that Grimek, and the others at York had the opportunity to experiment with the first pharmateutical use of the drug. The only other use documented usage was anecdotal data supplied from Nazi records and the Russian W/L team in the mid-1950's, and by Dr. Ziegler himself on patients. Ziegler learned from the Russians. Who do we have before him tied to drug use before his documented experiments? Both Fair and Starr are in agreement on this history in separate papers (articles).
The concept that some German scientist isolated an element in a laboratory, and the next moment he was thinking of helping out his newphew win the Jr. Mr. Germany contest is very imaginative. Bodybuilding wasn't very important then, now or 25 years ago.
Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone in the late 1800's, but it was over 100 years later before we started walking around with cell-phones. Technology doesn't happen overnight, medical or otherwise.
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Both Fair and Starr are in agreement on this history in separate papers (articles).
what's your point? What did Fair and Starr agree upon?
Technology doesn't happen overnight, medical or otherwise.
trends in the general population is different that what is being done by elite eindividuals. Dianabol became widely available in the late 1950s. The average guy at the gym would not have had access to testosterone esters or syringes. But world class athletes would have.
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I think 1) those poundages are greatly exaggerated or 2) those were dummy weights (ie. fake weights) there's no f**king way a guy in those times (let alone now) could lift up 300lbs. over his head with one arm...
I wonder what the weight of this dumbbell is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivikmAzBNJ4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivikmAzBNJ4)
Looks at least 250lbs.
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= old Grimek video, looks like he's just messing around.
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what's your point? What did Fair and Starr agree upon?
trends in the general population is different that what is being done by elite eindividuals. Dianabol became widely available in the late 1950s. The average guy at the gym would not have had access to testosterone esters or syringes. But world class athletes would have.
I'm referring to Fair's account and Starr's account regarding the timeframe for the development of the first steroid and how it occurred historically. That is, Ziegler's dealings with CIBA, York, etc. Both accounts are the same, no discrepancies on the development of the drug or the experiments. (It didn't simply pop out of someone's gymbag one day.) There were experiments undertaken by a doctor with test subjects. Ziegler is quoted by Fair at one point as stating "that these tiny pink pills could actually increase strength" was not imaginable at the time. I'd have to get the actual quote if you'd like. But that was the mindset.
Dianabol became available by prescription in 1961, I believe, not before that point in time.
That some of us believe that a secret (i.e. steroid use, 20 years before its historical development) of that magnitude could have been kept a secret all this time, and still today, is outside my own perception of human behavior.
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That some of us believe that a secret (i.e. steroid use, 20 years before its historical development) of that magnitude could have been kept a secret all this time, and still today, is outside my own perception of human behavior.
as I've pointed out before, testosterone propinate is first mentioned in Strength and Health in 1938. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabolic_steroid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabolic_steroid), under History, but that's not exactly proof, as I wrote that line in the wikipedia entry)
and Dianabol was released by CIBA in 1956 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianabol)
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Have you ANY idea when steroids was invented? Before WW2, in 1930- something...and day after that first atheletes were there to test that stuff.
Steroids didn't come into vogue in bodybuilding in the USA till the early 60's. I seriously doubt anything was widely available in the 30's or 40's or even after WWII when pharmaceuticals were very scarce.
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as I've pointed out before, testosterone propinate is first mentioned in Strength and Health in 1938. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabolic_steroid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabolic_steroid), under History, but that's not exactly proof, as I wrote that line in the wikipedia entry)
and Dianabol was released by CIBA in 1956 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianabol)
Tim, the fact that S&H mentioned a substance is clearly not enough evidence to prove a point more than something was picked up from a news report. The mags, especially IM, always tried to alert readers of new supplements. It's no different that saying, for example, that Yohimbe Bark was mentioned in a sentence or paragraph in the Readers' Roundup section of a 1945 Iron Man, if that were the case. To me, it's not significant.
Secondly, I'm not tying any importance whatsoever to anything written in Wikipedia. Why bother with historians (PhD's or otherwise) when I can write my own version of history and post it? I'm not trying to belittle your efforts, or others' efforts, but I've been down this path before. My belief is that Dianabol was not available for physicians to write scripts till 1961 at the earliest.
Again, I think if you're going against Fair's & Starr's accounts regarding Ziegler's history with CIBA & York, you'll need to come up with some type of valid evidence.
And to believe some alternative theory is to believe that a group of individuals have all kept this a secret, and all have done so to perfection, and all have done so for over 50 years.
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I suppose people will chime in Sandow was a juicer too?
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Tim, the fact that S&H mentioned a substance is clearly not enough evidence to prove a point more than something was picked up from a news report.
it's proof that it existed.
it was in a Letter to the Editor written by a medical doctor offering it as a treatment to cure homosexuality! (and anyone who's been to South Beach knows how much that works)
It's proof that testosterone esters were known and available in the US in the late 1930s. It wasn't common knowledge, but it was out there. And if the knowledge was out there, why is it so hard to believe that someone would take advantage of that knowldege?
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I sat with Mr Grimick is a national contest once. This was in those days when bodybuilding was preceeded by many long hours of olympic lifting.
I do recall that he was pissed off most of the time by anything and everything that went on that day. Especially when he was introduced and asked to come to the mic and say a few words.
When responding to anyone except Bob Hoffman, he reminded me of a grizzley old Drill Instructor who had major cause to be pissed off at Joe Shithead who was lower than whale turd and asking for headspace because he couldn't find any in the piece he had.
Well, maybe ya had to be there, but I do recall him just being miserable in that second row seat at the old Embassy Auditorium in downtown Los Angeles at one of the bigger lifting/bodybuilding events held back then.
He could have been pissed cause his son had just joined the Marines, but .....
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in that second row seat at the old Embassy Auditorium in downtown Los Angeles at one of the bigger lifting/bodybuilding events held back then.
that would have been the AAU National Weightlifting Championships and Mr America contest, June 11-12, 1965.
(from the Musclememory wiki (http://www.musclememory.com/wiki/index.php?title=Date_and_Place_-_AAU_Mr_America))
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it's proof that it existed.
it was in a Letter to the Editor written by a medical doctor offering it as a treatment to cure homosexuality! (and anyone who's been to South Beach knows how much that works)
It's proof that testosterone esters were known and available in the US in the late 1930s. It wasn't common knowledge, but it was out there. And if the knowledge was out there, why is it so hard to believe that someone would take advantage of that knowldege?
How is a single letter written to the editor of S&H the "missing link?" You're saying that the substance was not believed to influence size & strength, but rather influence one's sexual behavior.
I don't know if what existed in the late 1930's:
(1) did, in fact, increase size & strength,
(2) was KNOWN to increase size & strength,
(3) was investigated, to find out if it increased size & strength,
(4) and was available in enough quantity to be taken for that use.
And why did Ziegler need to investigate the Russian O/L team, and experiment on the York lifters if what he was looking for was right under his nose 15 years before he began his own investigation?
According to John Fair, Ziegler, Hoffman, Riecke, March, and Garcy didn't know what these pills did. They kept records, and found out that it wasn't the new training principles (isometrics), but rather the tiny pills that caused the improvements. Some might claim that York knew what the pills did, all in a plot to sell more $70 power racks.
Fair writes: "The lifting gains were obvious: that they came from steroids was not. That tiny pink pills could make you strong was still incomprehensible in the early sixties." [Page 7, Isometrics or Steroids? Exploring New Frontiers of Strenth in the Early 1960s, Journal of Sport History, Vol. 20 No. 1, Spring 1993]
If it was known in 1939, why was it not known in 1960?
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I don't have any personal knowledge about roid usage in the 30's and 40's but it is my understanding that steroids were widely depended upon for burn patients who suffered serious injuries while fighting in the Pacific during WWII. I've also been advised by a good number of military medical professionals that Tripler Army Hospital had great success useing steroids for burn recovery but for some unknown reason on my part it took many years for the AMA to claim that they were effective. (Sorry for my inept medical terminology here!)
And I am thoroughly convinced that bodybuilders were not the first athletes to use them to great advantage.
Many years later into the 70's, most of the pros were convinced that roids were 10% of the effort in increasing muscle size ...... but you have to remember that dosages were so much lower then.
I have no idea what percentage of the effort the pros would attribute to them today.
TIM, I believe you are correct on that date ..... I think Jerry Daniels won it that night b eating Bob Gadja and Sergio. Am I close? And who was that superheavy, young guy (back then) who did some spectacular lifting that nite?
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Tim,
I can't respond to most of your latest post but I can tell you for a fact that the following statement was incorrect........
"That tiny pink pills could make you strong was still incomprehensible in the early sixties."
I was just a young kid in 1961 (or 62?) heading down to Camp Pendleton and made a stop at a seaside pharmacy to get some of those little pink pills to increase my lifting strength.
I wasn't entirely in the loop back then but I knew that those little pink pills were effective.
In fact the only ones who insisted that they were not effective was the AMA.
Anyone involved in any athletic endeavor requiring strength and muscle had some idea that those little pills were helpful, but for some reason many doctors and publications were doing their best to prove otherwise.
It took the athletes themselves to prove otherwise for many in the medical profession. One prominent doctor even apologized for his unbelieving attitude and hostility to me in a medical publication relating to the subject.
I'd like to read anything available and factual about athletic use of roids in the 30's and the 40's and the 50's. To the best of my knowledge, they didn't really come to athletes' attention until the early 60's regardless of many unsupported claims made on here.
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I want to join in this discussion. The main contest associated with weight lifting was the Mr America contest that followed the lifting. They also had a requirement that contestants demonstrate athletic ability and some of them did weight lifting. In England they had the NABBA Mr Universe which was a pure bodybuilding contest.
I was in York in 1965 and saw Bill March do a standing press with 375 pounds. Very impressive. Grimek always talked against the use of steroids. He laughed at the IFBB because he said Larry Scott's name was engraved on the Mr Olympia trophy. He was grumpy but always candid and honest. It could have been that the winner was known and then they had Larry's name engraved before the finals.
What I recollect from reading the magazines over the years is that Ziegler helped introduce a steroid to burn victims during WWII and that patients could help gain weight after surgery, etc. He supervised the use of Dianabol to some of the weight lifters at York but became disenchanted when some guys used way more that he recommended.
We can wonder who used Dianabol and when that started. I started bodybuidling in Jan 1959 and by time I went to university in 1960 I had heard about steroids. No one admitted using them and there was a denial culture existing. Only those in the drug subculture knew about them and where to get them. Few bodybuilders would approach doctors to get prescriptions because there was a stigma about using them. In those days it was considered cheating and contemptible. Also, it was believed to be a dangerous thing to do because you could get cancer, etc. Clearly, little information was available and the literature from research did not support the idea that they even worked. So one had to be reckless to use those drugs. The weightlifters and some Mr Universes did use them but no one really knew who did and who didn't. Those of us who couldn't win the top titles assumed the winners had better genetics. By 1970 it was obvious you couldn't compete against the top guys without taking drugs. Sergio Oliva and Arnold appeared on the scene in the late 60s and dominated the sport for some time.
Jerry Daniels won a Mr America in 1965 and didn't seem impressive, but Bob Gadja beat Oliva in 1966 in that contest and after that Sergio abandoned the AAU and enterred Joe Weider's contests.
It remains a conjecture that some of the top guys in the 1940s used gear. Not one person from that era has ever confessed to using steroids. I leave it open as a possibility that someone might have been told of the wonder drug and might have used testosterone or something like it long before such use became known among athletes. Do we presume the champions to be innocent until proven guilty? That seems fair but others will insist that is naive. What is the test of the truth of any early drug use? Well, we need more than hearsay or speculation. Until some real evidence appears we will have to remain ignorant about what bodybuilders did in the old days.
If we go back to the late 1940s there were several champions who stood out. Eiferman developed huge pecs and won Mr America in 1948. Reeves developed a magnificent physique without apparently training very hard. Clancy Ross also was called the King of bodybuilders and had huge pecs as well. Then Leroy Colbert had an absolutely huge chest and arms before 1960. I am not accusing any of those guys of drug use. However, they sure stood out for some features that were not seen by most bodybuilders for decades.
Ironically, Grimek beat Reeves, Ross and Eiferman in the Mr USA in 1949 and was undefeated in bodybuilding contests. From looking at his physique it doesn't show much evidence of drug use. So who knows what the heck those guys did or didn't do. All I know is that I and plenty of other guys trained a lot and didn't get anywhere near as big as the guys who hung around Muscle Beach in those days. No one from those days showed any drug side effects such as gynecomastia.
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You're saying that the substance was not believed to influence size & strength, but rather influence one's sexual behavior.
No, I'm saying the person who wrote the letter was using it in his practice in the belief that it would turn you into a man.
I don't know if what existed in the late 1930's:
(1) did, in fact, increase size & strength,
it was testosterone propinate, a testosterone ester still used today.
(2) was KNOWN to increase size & strength,
(3) was investigated, to find out if it increased size & strength,
(4) and was available in enough quantity to be taken for that use.
it was available. so certainly someone would try it out.
think about the lengths that world class athletes today go to get that edge. it was no different back then.
If it was known in 1939, why was it not known in 1960?
the knowledge was never lost. but very few people would have had access to it because it was injectible. Didn't have disposable syringes and needles back then. Dianabol changed everything because it was in pill form and could be distributed to the masses.
Eiferman won Mr America in 48, Delinger won it in 49. There are two articles in Strength and Health, one about Eiferman and a year later a similar one about Delinger, describing how they went out to Yarick's Gym in Oakland California for the summer and returned back to York 30-40 pounds heavier. Now I can see an 18 year old learning how to train and eat right for the first time and gaining 30 pounds in 3 months. But Eiferman and Delinger were both already world class athletes. World class athletes don't suddenly gain 30 pounds by changing their diet or training methods.
it's circumstantial, but it's pretty compelling
btw, Yarick's was also Reeve's home gym.
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anabolic steroids were first mentioned in Strength and Health magazine in 1938. Grimek worked for Hoffman and Strength and Health. Grimek's physique in 1939 and 1940 was like no one elses. It is certainly possible that the first Mr America was also the first to do it with steroids.
If you want to read more about Grimek, get the book Muscletown USA: Bob Hoffman and the Manly Culture of York Barbell (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0271018550)
But, according to Fair's monumental book Muscletown USA , Grimek only "dabbled" with the steroids in conjunction with the pioneer of steroid administration to U.S. athletes, Dr. John Zielger. Dr. Ziegler administered steroids to Olympic weightlifters and bodybuilders...e.g. Bill March, Louis Riecke, Grimek and Jim Park. March and Riecke used the AAS extensively (1960's), however, Grimek and Park's usage ('40's-'50's) was much more limited.
At the time John Grimek was able to perform a "loose" Olympic barbell press with approximately 350-360 lbs.(of course, that was after cleaning the 350-360 lb. bar to his shoulders and not just taking the bar from the squat rack!), the WORLD RECORD in the stricter version of the Olympic Press (i.e. with less much back bend and/or body heave) was around 310-330 lbs! Grimek's bodyweight was around 200-210 at the time!!
John Davis was the world heavyweight Olympic weightlifting champion of Grimek's era. Davis could not match Grimek's loose pressing poundages, but could outlift Grimek on the "quicklifts" (snatch and clean and jerk). In the late 30's and early 40's, Grimek had to decide whether he wanted to pursue bodybuilding or Olympic weightlifting.
At the time ('38-'41), Grimek was very competitive (particularly in the Olympic/military press) with the top U.S. Olympic weightlifters of his era...John Davis, Steve Stanko and Louis Abele. And, then along came World War II!
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anabolic steroids were first mentioned in Strength and Health magazine in 1938. Grimek worked for Hoffman and Strength and Health. Grimek's physique in 1939 and 1940 was like no one elses. It is certainly possible that the first Mr America was also the first to do it with steroids.
If you want to read more about Grimek, get the book Muscletown USA: Bob Hoffman and the Manly Culture of York Barbell (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0271018550)
You act like you've made some great discovery. ::) It is a historical fact that testosterone was discovered in 1935 by Dr. Leopold Ruzicka. The September 23, 1935 issue of Time Magazine ran a short article about his breakthroughs in isolating male hormones.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,749085,00.html
This doesn't change the fact that male hormones were never used by bodybuilders until the late 1950's, and were not widely available until around 1964. Ask anyone who was involved in bodybuilding/powerlifting during that time period. Your assertion that guys like Grimek, Park, and Eiferman used steroids during the 40's and early 50's is pure fantasy.
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(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/grimek/jg3.jpg)
todays bodybuilders are not as hardcore, they dont go half naked out in the snow posing
Grimek had this great photo taken as sort of as a "humorous stunt" and the photo was subsequently used on the cover of a winter issue of Strength and Health magazine in the mid-late 50's, as I recall.
No, today's bodybuilders are too busy shooting up on BB and rec. drugs, dealing illegal drugs, and falling over dead in their 30's and 40's (at half of "hardcore" Grimek's lifespan) to "go out and pose half-naked in the snow"!!
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Bill March bet me $ that John Grimek's calves still measured at least 17 1/2 inches when I visited York in 1965. I figured if he was willing to bet me that it must be true so I declined. In those days anything over 17 inches was remarkable on a guy of 5-8.
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Vince, good to see you posting on here. We need more intelligence on this board so your input is appreciated. Most of these GetBiggers are relatively new to the "sport", so they probably don't recognize your name, but a few of us old timers certainly do.
Thanks, Vince
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Vince, good to see you posting on here. We need more intelligence on this board so your input is appreciated. Most of these GetBiggers are relatively new to the "sport", so they probably don't recognize your name, but a few of us old timers certainly do.
Thanks, Vince
how could we not know who Vince is, he was Mr. Canada 1970. ::)
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First the stuff was only around in the late 50's(Ziegler)
Then, its rumoured Reeves may have dabbled even before.
Now Grimek is a supposed user/experimenter.
One of these days Eugene Sandow is gonna be documented as "experimenting".
The puritans are going ballistic, but who give a shit, it doesnt take away from their achievements.
I dont care if they took drugs, performed fellatio on each other, abused small furry animals, or walked around the house in tutus and high-heels.
These guys achieved a lot, and were forerunners in their field, and as such paid their dues, and should get appreciation and admiration. But, they're not Gods, just normal guys that excelled at what they did.
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I dont care if they took drugs, performed fellatio on each other, abused small furry animals, or walked around the house in tutus and high-heels.
Could you please leave Tomr out of this? ;D ;D
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what's your point? What did Fair and Starr agree upon?
trends in the general population is different that what is being done by elite eindividuals. Dianabol became widely available in the late 1950s. The average guy at the gym would not have had access to testosterone esters or syringes. But world class athletes would have.
Upon what evidence are your assertations based?
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I remember seeing Doug Hepburn at UBC about 1964 or 65. He wore a black suit and was so wide it was ridiculous. He claimed he could standing press 450 pounds from a rack. I recall then that many believed he used drugs. I got to know Doug in 1969 and he trained me for a couple of weeks on his training device that used concentric only resistance. He told me to do 20 sets for curls and 20 sets of French presses for triceps. All sets were for 5 hard reps. I gained 1/2 inch on my arms in 4 workouts over 2 weeks. Doug challenged others re his being the strongest man in the world and always claimed he was a natural. I can tell you I am inclined to appreciate his training protocols more today than I did in those days. I never followed the 20 maximum sets but feel that is closer to what is required for hypertrophy.
The truth is there is no way to determine who used drugs if people are not going to disclose things. Why should anyone confess to such usage? Like I said, it was considered unhealthy and cheating. In a way it cancelled any success that some got out of training. I do believe we should know the truth but at the moment do not know. Perhaps some people do know but many of the guys from those days are now gone and those who remain are saying nothing at all.
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Doug Hepburn was definitely drug-free. He weighed near 300 lb when he became the first man to bench 500 in 1953. That's an incredible feat of strength, but hardly impossible for a natural.
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Doug Hepburn was definitely drug-free. He weighed near 300 lb when he became the first man to bench 500 in 1953. That's an incredible feat of strength, but hardly impossible for a natural.
Doug Hepburn was truly amazing and in upper body strength was arguably the strongest man in the world in the early 1950's. Doug was not naturally big and strong like his counterpart of that era, Paul Anderson.
Doug began weight-training weighing an ordinary 140-odd pounds and built his bodyweight to approx. 300 lbs. through intelligent w-t and dieting w/o drugs. At his best, he bench pressed nearly 600 lbs.(580), squatted with over 700 lbs., and held the world Olympic press record at 381 lbs. (until Paul Anderson finally exceeded this amount in 1955) at a time when no one else in the world could match these lifts.
Doug was handicapped by having had polio as a child and thus had one leg that was relatively crippled and undeveloped. However, this did not prevent him from winning the world Olympic weightlifting heavyweight class (now called the superheavyweight class) championship in Stockholm in 1953, beating perennial U.S. champion, John Davis, for the first time.
Doug's polio crippled leg severely hampered his Olympic weightlifting ability on the quick lifts, particularly when cleaning heavy weights. As a result, Doug could press with ridiculous ease anything he could clean to his shoulders.
In 1954, Doug did a strict Olympic BB press from the squat rack (photographed and displayed in Iron Man Lifting News and done in front of creditable witnesses) with 440 lbs.!! This was at a time when NO ONE ELSE IN THE WORLD, INCLUDING PAUL ANDERSON, could do a standing Olympic BB press with even 400 lbs.!!!
On the cover of an early issue of Randall Strossen's MILO mag., Doug is shown holding out at his side, at straight arm's length , a 100 lb. dumbbell! Doug was definitely ALL-NATURAL when he was at the peak of his strength (early 1950's).