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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Marty Champions on December 08, 2006, 03:57:02 PM
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most people have simple patterns of weightlifting and expect to either periodize there muscle gains or just simply be able to lift bigger weight from month to month
it is instictive to try heavier poundage and add in an extra set or the reverse, taking a day off or a lay off, and i think we have all tried either way
i challenge you all to quadruple you volume or sets per bodypart.. if you are used to doing 20 sets try 60 and i garantee you will see a difference, it requires alot more effort. but it is your mind that controls when to give up after 20 sets!
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i challenge you all to quadruple you volume or sets per bodypart.. if you are used to doing 20 sets try 60 and i garantee you will see a difference, it requires alot more effort. but it is your mind that controls when to give up after 20 sets!
Definitely good to shock the muscles, but there are many more ways to do it that something crazy like 60 sets.
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20 quadrupled = 80
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good one genius. ever hear of volume training?
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good one genius. ever hear of volume training?
Volome training isn't 60 or 80 sets unless you're mentally ill like one Steve Michalik.
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Sup.
I train 40 minutes a week.
Try doing one of my HIT workouts. I guarantee you'd abandon a set before the final 3 reps.
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Sup.
I train 40 minutes a week.
Great, but obviously misleading. Should read: "I do 40 of the most agonizing, gruelling minutes imaginable. Trust me it's great". ;)
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Great, but obviously misleading. Should read: "I do 40 of the most agonizing, gruelling minutes imaginable. Trust me it's great". ;)
It works!
I've tried high volume and it just plain blows. It's boring. The only challenge involved is clearing your schedule for a 2 hour workout (6 hour in this case).
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It works!
I've tried high volume and it just plain blows. It's boring. The only challenge involved is clearing your schedule for a 2 hour workout (6 hour in this case).
Agreed but that kind of high volume's not necessary, there's obviously middle ground of moderate sets using high intensity, though not the degree of intensity put into HIT sets.
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True. My friend and I decided not to stick with HIT forever. We're going to return to more traditional training routines. We both agreed, however, to continue using high-intensity techniques. When we do return to our old routines we'll be in the 1-6 set volume of training as opposed to the current 1-3. It's still pretty low volume but I'm telling you we're masochists in the gym. Doing more than 4-5 sets for quads is completely unnecessary with this kind of intensity, for example.
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Obviously continue with HIT as long as the gains continue, then return to it for 4-8 weeks at a time as a changeup, later.
Numbers of sets and intensity is part of a continuum-the more intensity you're willing to put into each set, the less that are needed, it's that simple. Basically with moderate sets you still use intensity but not to the crazy levels of HIT that might be hard to maintain over time.
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i do the same intensity as hit training, but in workouts that are usually around 12-20 sets.
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i do the same intensity as hit training, but in workouts that are usually around 12-20 sets.
I think that's being said just to get attention. Obviously with true HIT and a training partner, that doesn't make sense.
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I think that's being said just to get attention. Obviously with true HIT and a training partner, that doesn't make sense.
hahahahahah it's not possible. It truly isn't no matter how motivated you could possibly be.
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i do the same intensity as hit training, but in workouts that are usually around 12-20 sets.
lol
hahahahahah it's not possible. It truly isn't no matter how motivated you could possibly be.
Arnold did it. But he also took a boatload of shit.
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i only do 1 or 2 sets total, i'm 243lbs it works.
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lol
Arnold did it. But he also took a boatload of shit.
No way he was using HIT for 20 sets.
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No way he was using HIT for 20 sets.
He would put everything into each and every set!
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He would put everything into each and every set!
That's not the same as HIT. Fundamental difference; i'm surprised you don't know this.
Besides, if you look closely at Pumping Iron he's really not training as hard as other guys in the movie for most of the sets.
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That's not the same as HIT. Fundamental difference; i'm surprised you don't know this.
Besides, if you look closely at Pumping Iron he's really not training as hard as other guys in the movie for most of the sets.
That's is because Arnold could burry them all at will. Do you believe that Mike Mentzer would stand a chance against Arnold training wise?
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That's is because Arnold could burry them all at will. Do you believe that Mike Mentzer would stand a chance against Arnold training wise?
hahahah yes, as a matter of fact Mentzer would have made Arnold's workouts look like kickboxing cardio.
Mentzer created and experimented with many intensity techniques. He's done crazy shit I've never even done yet. He had an unbelievable willpower.
To me, Arnold's training intensity was dissappointing. It may look intense to you, but it's really not all that it could be. You simply can't train THAT hard while doing 25 set triceps workouts!
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That's is because Arnold could burry them all at will. Do you believe that Mike Mentzer would stand a chance against Arnold training wise?
I think he's kidding. Most of Arnold's sets in Pumping Iron were for PUSSIES; hopefully he trained harder with the cameras off. What you've been fooled by was just mugging for the camera, deliberate facial grimaces. Notice that during the squat sequence with Corney they edited out the end of Schwarzenegger's set-why? Corney & Ferrigno's training was the real deal.
What cave have you been living in? Do you understand HIT?
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I understand hit is for girlie man that are afraid to use freeweights. I also understand that there has been a legion of bodybuilders past or present that tried to keep up with Arnold but they would brake down half way through. Arnold used to train 8 hours a day with intensity. Mentzer would not last 5 minutes.
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used to train 8 hours a day with intensity. Mentzer would not last 5 minutes.
I think Alexxx's tennis player look is the result of the 8-hour plan. ;D
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I understand hit is for girlie man that are afraid to use freeweights. I also understand that there has been a legion of bodybuilders past or present that tried to keep up with Arnold but they would brake down half way through. Arnold used to train 8 hours a day with intensity. Mentzer would not last 5 minutes.
i dont know if youre kidding or not but what you said about HIT training is false. try it out one day, its INSANE!!
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yes this def works hoever its not really muscle groth. more capillarisation
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i dont know if youre kidding or not but what you said about HIT training is false. try it out one day, its INSANE!!
He's not kidding, he's being completely irrational.
See, I have to argue HIT when I should be bathing my dog hahaha.
yes this def works hoever its not really muscle groth. more capillarisation
Capillarisation isn't an existing word in the english language, but HIT works, trust me on that!!
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Some of the animosity between Mentzer & Schwarzenegger was due to the fact that Schwarzenegger resented the publicity Mentzer's new HIT was getting.
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Quote from: nodeal on Today at 02:15:44 PM
i dont know if youre kidding or not but what you said about HIT training is false. try it out one day, its INSANE!!
Unless he was led through it with an experienced training partner i'm quite sure he would stop well before he's supposed to, but would assume that he's done it correctly.
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Nodeal is my training partner. ;D
The ONLY other crazy bastard I know who could train true HIT!
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He would put everything into each and every set!
this is what i was referring to. i dont know of this "fundamental diffference" pumpster refers to.
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I do believe that sum1 sed in the 1st page of this thread that they could take the same intensity of true HIT and apply it to 20 sets, that is absolutely impossible!!
I respect alexx for his dedication to his training, and the time he puts in!! But saying HIT is for girly men is crazy, alexx with ur dedication bro, u should try HIT and kill urself in the gym. I have modified it slightly and am ever perfecting it and i think u could be a HIT pioneer with ur determination if u only wanted to be.
davie
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Nodeal is my training partner. ;D
The ONLY other crazy bastard I know who could train true HIT!
Why do you talk like you're the only one on the planet who can actually train that way? Shut the fuck up about it.
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I do believe that sum1 sed in the 1st page of this thread that they could take the same intensity of true HIT and apply it to 20 sets, that is absolutely impossible!!
I respect alexx for his dedication to his training, and the time he puts in!! But saying HIT is for girly men is crazy, alexx with ur dedication bro, u should try HIT and kill urself in the gym. I have modified it slightly and am ever perfecting it and i think u could be a HIT pioneer with ur determination if u only wanted to be.
davie
Hey thanks davie for the kind words. I am actually going back to DC training. I like DC much better because you train your muscles more often and much harder with maximum weights. That is a true power program!
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Why do you talk like you're the only one on the planet who can actually train that way? Shut the f**k up about it.
it depends on what gym you go to, but in most gyms training HIT style is on a whole other level from everybody elses workouts and you hardly see anybody imploring these principles of intensity. it really does make you feel like youre the only person training this way even though you know youre really not. calm your tits.
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Why do you talk like you're the only one on the planet who can actually train that way? Shut the f**k up about it.
What has he done but share detailed results? Doing this program as intended's not that common.
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What has he done but share detailed results? Doing this program as intended's not that common.
it depends on what gym you go to, but in most gyms training HIT style is on a whole other level from everybody elses workouts and you hardly see anybody imploring these principles of intensity. it really does make you feel like youre the only person training this way even though you know youre really not. calm your tits.
Thanks guys.
nodeal is really the only other person I know who trains this way. We stand alone in our gym, our HUGE and very professional gym. There's thousands of members to our gym and we can honestly claim to be the hardest training members out of them all.
Also, I train high school students in my weight training class in school and I'll try to push these guys to do a HIT workout, and none of them can get through it!
So it really does seem to me that I'm one of the only people training this way.
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Agreed but that kind of high volume's not necessary, there's obviously middle ground of moderate sets using high intensity, though not the degree of intensity put into HIT sets.
Exactly. Why are people roped into such extremes? I try to use a blend.
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I understand hit is for girlie man that are afraid to use freeweights. I also understand that there has been a legion of bodybuilders past or present that tried to keep up with Arnold but they would brake down half way through. Arnold used to train 8 hours a day with intensity. Mentzer would not last 5 minutes.
Alexxx, with all due respect, I love Arnold, but to say his intensity each set was that of Mentzer's is false. Arnold had a wicked drive in the gym for volume training, with moderate intensity, but not high intensity. That's the point of real HIT training, and that's why it is so low volume, because it really is impossible to carry that true intensity applied HIT style past a few all out sets.
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I won't say one is better than the other for building muscle but I think Volume is better for a functional physique that needs endurance.
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Hey thanks davie for the kind words. I am actually going back to DC training. I like DC much better because you train your muscles more often and much harder with maximum weights. That is a true power program!
Yeh go for it bro, i think if u keep up the determination it should work wanders for u!!
Though i still feel a HIT style workout would blow u up!!
davie
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I won't say one is better than the other for building muscle but I think Volume is better for a functional physique that needs endurance.
Neither will build endurance sufficiently on their own and would be best complemented by cardio if endurance is the goal.
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Neither will build endurance sufficiently on their own and would be best complemented by cardio if endurance is the goal.
HIT is also a great cardiovascular workout from the constant supersetting.
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Neither will build endurance sufficiently on their own and would be best complemented by cardio if endurance is the goal.
But you wouldn't agree that volume would build more muscular endurance than HIT? Muscular endurance doesn't just mean like long distance running to me, lots of repeated motions require endurance.
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But you wouldn't agree that volume would build more muscular endurance than HIT? Muscular endurance doesn't just mean like long distance running to me, lots of repeated motions require endurance.
I did high volume for many years; can't say it helped with overall endurance. The extra volume would help for refinement & to some degree fat loss, good pre-contest. Is otherwise a distraction for size because it's harder to focus on going heavier when there are so many sets. Becomes a lifting marathon vs. a shorter focus on weight and intensity using moderate sets.
What would help in any program if endurance & function are important would be exercises that tax the most and biggest muscles-cleans, clean & jerks, squats, chins, rows, etc. in addition to cardio.
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I did high volume for many years; can't say it helped with endurance. Even for size i think now that moderate volume's just as good, since the focus and intensity are higher. Looking back, the extra sets only accomplished refinement, actually could be counter-productive to size because it's hard to focus on what counts to gain when there are so many sets ahead.
What would help in any program if endurance is important, would be exercises that tax the most and biggest muscles-cleans, clean & jerks, squats, chins, rows, etc. in addition to cardio
I guess I am thinking in terms of fighting and some other repeated motions but I agree with the full body exercises.
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I guess I am thinking in terms of fighting and some other repeated motions but I agree with the full body exercises.
Yeh i think al body in motion exercises (cleans, squats,dips etc) are xcellent moves.
davie
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HIT is also a great cardiovascular workout from the constant supersetting.
2 minutes supersetting.. hardcore!
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2 minutes supersetting.. hardcore!
I think HIT style workouts done in the fashion of arthur jones style....full body no rest at all between any movement, is a good cardio workout.
davie
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I think HIT style workouts done in the fashion of arthur jones style....full body no rest at all between any movement, is a good cardio workout.
davie
It lasts as long as an orgasm. How can that be a good cardio workout?
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It lasts as long as an orgasm. How can that be a good cardio workout?
haha i wouldnt mind a 30 minute orgasm.
its the rush factor employed that allows no rest between movements and allows no time to really catch breath.
All sets done to positive failure (which is hard enough on respiratory system [in a good way]), and moving straight from one bodypart to the next (arthur jones also employed a pre-exhaust wen carying out this system). It is not only lifting weighhts and working individual muscles that is hard, but the continual work that is always being done that means the hole body (and respiratory system) has a more cardio type workout.
davie
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haha i wouldnt mind a 30 minute orgasm.
its the rush factor employed that allows no rest between movements and allows no time to really catch breath.
All sets done to positive failure (which is hard enough on respiratory system [in a good way]), and moving straight from one bodypart to the next (arthur jones also employed a pre-exhaust wen carying out this system). It is not only lifting weighhts and working individual muscles that is hard, but the continual work that is always being done that means the hole body (and respiratory system) has a more cardio type workout.
davie
That sounds interesting but I don't know about training so infrequently. DC emphasises weights with good form above all else and you train every bodypart twice every 8 days.
I am reading this old book "Nautilus advanced bodybuilding book" and like a lot of what I read. Plus there are some cool Sergio pictures I have never seen before. I will scan them.
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most people have simple patterns of weightlifting and expect to either periodize there muscle gains or just simply be able to lift bigger weight from month to month
it is instictive to try heavier poundage and add in an extra set or the reverse, taking a day off or a lay off, and i think we have all tried either way
i challenge you all to quadruple you volume or sets per bodypart.. if you are used to doing 20 sets try 60 and i garantee you will see a difference, it requires alot more effort. but it is your mind that controls when to give up after 20 sets!
Every time you think you have seen the most ignorant post ever, another one comes along to top it. I hope nobody listens to you or they will have tendonitis, negative gains and burn out and most likely quit lifting.
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That sounds interesting but I don't know about training so infrequently. DC emphasises weights with good form above all else and you train every bodypart twice every 8 days.
I am reading this old book "Nautilus advanced bodybuilding book" and like a lot of what I read. Plus there are some cool Sergio pictures I have never seen before. I will scan them.
I couldnt say for certain,k but theres a chance that arthur jones might have had sonmething to do with that book as i think he worked for nautilus, and certainly he used there equipment with sergio and casey etc etc.
ALthough alot of HIT styles call for body parts to be worked once a week, arthur jones workouts have u do 3 full body routines dopne in the style i posted above. positive failure (cant complete another rep in ur own-i know u know this alexx, but others may not), which is demanding then straight to next exercise with no rest except walking to machine/bench etc. Everything pre-exhausted aswell.
davie
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I couldnt say for certain,k but theres a chance that arthur jones might have had sonmething to do with that book as i think he worked for nautilus, and certainly he used there equipment with sergio and casey etc etc.
ALthough alot of HIT styles call for body parts to be worked once a week, arthur jones workouts have u do 3 full body routines dopne in the style i posted above. positive failure (cant complete another rep in ur own-i know u know this alexx, but others may not), which is demanding then straight to next exercise with no rest except walking to machine/bench etc. Everything pre-exhausted aswell.
davie
Yeah Arthur is in it. He is training Mike Mentzer some really cool stuff so far. Also Boyer Coe is the main guy trained in this book.
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i do the same intensity as hit training, but in workouts that are usually around 12-20 sets.
High Intensity Training (HIT) is the opposite of High Volume Training. Doing some 20 sets of some 15 reps or so is high volume training and not high intensity training. It's like the difference between running a marathon and sprinting. Sprinting would be high intensity and a marathon would be high volume. You can't say that you ran a marathon and that you were sprinting the whole time. If you sprint, run as fast as you possibly can, you won't last one minute. In the same way, if you train HIT style, you can't last 20 sets. They are opposites. Arnold's training was high volume, while Metzer's training was high intensity. Pick one, you can't mix them up. If you mix them up, then you are neither training High Volume nor High Intensity. I believe that's what most people do, a mix. I have a lot of respect for those who train true HIT style.
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High Intensity Training (HIT) is the opposite of High Volume Training. Doing some 20 sets of some 15 reps or so is high volume training and not high intensity training. It's like the difference between running a marathon and sprinting. Sprinting would be high intensity and a marathon would be high volume. You can't say that you ran a marathon and that you were sprinting the whole time. If you sprint, run as fast as you possibly can, you won't last one minute. In the same way, if you train HIT style, you can't last 20 sets. They are opposites. Arnold's training was high volume, while Metzer's training was high intensity. Pick one, you can't mix them up. If you mix them up, then you are neither training High Volume nor High Intensity. I believe that's that most people do, a mix. I have a lot of respect for those who train true HIT style.
Well put!!
davie
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ya good post for sure
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High Intensity Training (HIT) is the opposite of High Volume Training. Doing some 20 sets of some 15 reps or so is high volume training and not high intensity training. It's like the difference between running a marathon and sprinting. Sprinting would be high intensity and a marathon would be high volume. You can't say that you ran a marathon and that you were sprinting the whole time. If you sprint, run as fast as you possibly can, you won't last one minute. In the same way, if you train HIT style, you can't last 20 sets. They are opposites. Arnold's training was high volume, while Metzer's training was high intensity. Pick one, you can't mix them up. If you mix them up, then you are neither training High Volume nor High Intensity. I believe that's what most people do, a mix. I have a lot of respect for those who train true HIT style.
That has been said many times, but sum like to argue that if u follow one u must b lazy etc.
Diff strokes..diff folks.
davie
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Definitely good to shock the muscles, but there are many more ways to do it that something crazy like 60 sets.
ya know i agree 60 sets per muscles group is a little insane. if you wanna give the muscles a shock try "from here to eternity" it was in the january or february issue of m&f 2006. 1 set per muscle group of 100 reps.