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Sergio in 76 and his last conest in 1985 Mr Olympia
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guy was fucking amazing...but he should have dieted harder..dude was never ripped after 72 (that i know of). Insane arms and shoulders.
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Sergio in 76 and his last conest in 1985 Mr Olympia
WOW that is insane!!! Every picture I see with Sergio is breathtaking!!
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That is NOT Sergio in 1985.
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Looks like he stopped training legs for 9 years.
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That is NOT Sergio in 1985.
true..none of those pics are from 85
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That is NOT Sergio in 1985.
Yes from the 1985 Mr Olympia
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Yes from the 1985 Mr Olympia
That's from the '84 Olympia. In the '85 Olympia, Sergio wore blue trunks and didn't have the moustache. That other black and white photo on the right is from 1980 when Sergio was competing in the WABBA competitions in Europe.
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That's from the '84 Olympia. In the '85 Olympia, Sergio wore blue trunks and didn't have the moustache. That other black and white photo on the right is from 1980 when Sergio was competing in the WABBA competitions in Europe.
Thank you for clearing that up !!
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Just can't get enough of Sergio. I gotta check to see if his book is available yet. I'd like to get that as a gift. 8)
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That's from the '84 Olympia. In the '85 Olympia, Sergio wore blue trunks and didn't have the moustache. That other black and white photo on the right is from 1980 when Sergio was competing in the WABBA competitions in Europe.
ND's poor information warps reality until embarassed/corrected into retractions. It's a pattern; humiliating but necessary. ;)
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How old was Sergio at his last show, 1986, Mr O, I think?
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How old was Sergio at his last show, 1986, Mr O, I think?
Mid-40s, well beyond his prime. Made sense to enter from the perspective of generating new interest & sales.
Link for his new book:
http://www.sergioolivathemyth.com
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ND's poor information warps reality until embarassed/corrected into retractions. It's a pattern; humiliating but necessary. ;)
Poor information? like your claim that Arnold refused to accept Sergio's challenge in a non IFBB contest in 1974? lol
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Mid-40s, well beyond his prime. Made sense to enter from the perspective of generating new interest & sales.
Link for his new book:
http://www.sergioolivathemyth.com
And he was angry about placing 8th as well lol he was gifted 8th and then complains about it , typical Sergio.
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And he was angry about placing 8th as well lol he was gifted 8th and then complains about it , typical Sergio.
Demonstrated resentment of black BBs including Coleman & Oliva. Real issues with black guys who threaten to beat his white prizes Yates, Schwarzenegger & Priest. hahaahahahahah
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Demonstrated resentment of black BBs including Coleman & Oliva. Real issues with black guys who threaten to beat his white prizes Yates, Schwarzenegger & Priest. hahaahahahahah
pumpster keep on truckin kid ;) you're just exposing yourself as a bigot. ;)
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pumpster keep on truckin kid ;) you're just exposing yourself as a bigot. ;)
Pot calling the kettle black ain't helpin, punk. Your hostile posts here and elsewhere speak volumes about your predilection for "handsome white BBs".. hahahaahhaahha
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Pot calling the kettle black ain't helpin, punk. Your hostile posts here and elsewhere speak volumes. hahahaahhaahha
You're the one who refered to Dorian as the " blocky white guy " and claimed he was " handpicked because he was white for commercial purposes " lol implied Lee Priest is a racist because " Lots of racism still around in redneck Australia as well. " these are your quotes ;) you're so wrapped up in this twisted logic you think everyone thinks like you , you've played yourself out for what you are a bigot. ;)
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You're the one who refered to Dorian as the " blocky white guy "
Let it go, you keep proving you're a hostile loser by an inability to stick to the topic of the thread. Stop trying to distract from the misinformation you once again provided. We forgive you. :-*
It's skinheads like this who try to distort realities involving comments in the same way those pics were completely wrong. Too late you did it again, live with it. LOL
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Let it go, you keep proving you're a hostile loser by an inability to stick to the topic of the thread. Stop trying to distract from the misinformation you once again provided. We forgive you. :-*
It's skinheads like this who try to distort realities involving comments in the same way those pics were completely wrong. Too late you did it again, live with it. LOL
Who called Dorian the Blocky white guy? ;)
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Sergio never took a bad photo, without a doubt the best bber of all time!!
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Sergio in 76 and his last conest in 1985 Mr Olympia
his arms look ginourmous in 1985.. :o
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Sergio in 76 and his last conest in 1985 Mr Olympia
Thanks for the pic. Sergio was great.
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How old was Sergio at his last show, 1986, Mr O, I think?
His last show I believe was in 1985 Olympia. He was 43 I think. Came 8th
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sergio loses all credibility because he juiced for that physique and now looks like a pile of shit because of the juice causing all sorts of problems
serge nubret is still a bad motha fucka to this day
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Sergio and his lovely bride who shot him
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the title suggests that he died in 1985
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=111479.0;attach=125575;image)
Not sure what contest the pic on the left is but it does say 1976 in a 1993 Musclemag (possibly the WBBG Olympus show). The shot from the right is definately the 1980 WABBA World Championships in France where Sergio beat Bertil Fox.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=111479.0;attach=125604;image)
Definately the 1984 Olympia. This is Sergio's all time worst condition IMO, he looked like he hadn't eaten or trained in months, although he does look better in the pics than the film of the show. He dieted on tuna & vegetables for this show when he should have stuck with burgers and coke. If he had of showed up like he did at the 1980 WABBA show, he would have placed 2nd behind Haney or even won.
SERGIO!!!!
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Sergio was the best Mr. O that ever lived.
Some of his best pics that I found online:
(http://ironage.us/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6115.0;id=4777;image)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Oliva08.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Oliva14.jpg)
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Topic: Sergio 1976 - 1985.
Sergio died when he was only 9 yrs old? :'(.
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A couple more.
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Pure mesomorph.
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Check out his arms they look bigger than his quads !!
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Sergio was the best Mr. O that ever lived.
Some of his best pics that I found online:
(http://ironage.us/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6115.0;id=4777;image)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Oliva08.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Oliva14.jpg)
would you look at that...a black man with calves.
Simply awesome.
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would you look at that...a black man with calves.
Simply awesome.
Dillett had great calves , as did Johnny Fuller , Chris Dickerson , Vince Taylor !
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=111479.0;attach=126722;image)
Check out his arms they look bigger than his quads !!
The story goes that Ben Weider's son saw Sergio at the 1969 Olympia and said "Daddy, who's the man with the four legs".
SERGIO!!!!
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I have to laugh when people compare Arnold to Sergio. Arnold had Sergio beat on chest and calves and overall conditioning. Not much more.
I completely agree. And it's not like he beat him by a mile on chest- Sergio's was fantastic.
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Arnold had more market appeal and of course Joe Weider's goal was to sell magazines, what any good businessman would want to do. But as good as Arnold was he still had characteristics of a human being while Sergio was all cartoon. I don't think we'll ever see a taper like his again.
It makes sense. Bodybuilding as an industry was only in the earliest of phases of growth- it's a privately run, profitable industry, so you do the most you can to make sure it's as profitable as possible. What does this mean? Better marketing- and of course, that means Arnold as the figurehead.
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I have to laugh when people compare Arnold to Sergio. Arnold had Sergio beat on chest and calves and overall conditioning. Not much more.
Arnold had Sergio beat on abdominals , biceps , and his posing ability not to mention conditioning , Sergio by far has a better natural structure I mean his proportions are just mindboggling but you need to be more than just big to be the best Arnold found this out in 1968 and Zane thought him .
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Arnold had Sergio beat on abdominals , biceps , and his posing ability not to mention conditioning , Sergio by far has a better natural structure I mean his proportions are just mindboggling but you need to be more than just big to be the best Arnold found this out in 1968 and Zane thought him .
It's probably debatable that Arnold beat Sergio on abs because he had better conditioning. Remember, whilst Sergio had crappy abs, he also had off conditioning. And Arnold's were weird- he had a four-pack.
Further, I think the biceps issue is a matter of taste. Peak is cool, but I've always thought that long biceps like Sergio and Levrone's are much more powerful-looking and impressive.
Posing ability doesn't affect who had the better physique.
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Posing ability doesn't affect who had the better physique.
Intrinsically, no. However, you would be very, very foolish to say that poor posing would not hinder one's competitive ability.
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Arnold had Sergio beat on abdominals , biceps , and his posing ability not to mention conditioning , Sergio by far has a better natural structure I mean his proportions are just mindboggling but you need to be more than just big to be the best Arnold found this out in 1968 and Zane thought him .
According to this clown, (1) politics and mag sales had nothing to do with contest decisions because nothing was conclusively proven, and (2) Schwarzenegger was far out in front, no contest. ::)
Laughable. A laughing stock. Funny how in both cases he puts the white BB (Yates, Arnold) far ahead of the black BB, with not an shred of justification.
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Intrinsically, no. However, you would be very, very foolish to say that poor posing would not hinder one's competitive ability.
Of course- that's not what I'm saying. But posing ability comes down to marketability- both in terms of winning a contest, and figureheading a new, growing industry.
Sergio- markedly better bodybuilder.
Arnold- markedly better contestant/competitor.
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It makes sense. Bodybuilding as an industry was only in the earliest of phases of growth- it's a privately run, profitable industry, so you do the most you can to make sure it's as profitable as possible. What does this mean? Better marketing- and of course, that means Arnold as the figurehead.
I personally don't think Arnold was any more marketable than Sergio , you have a Austrian with a heavy German accent or a Cuban with a heavy Spanish one , I don't buy either one being more marketable than a very clean cut college educated Frank Zane with a build that appeared attainable , or the tall blond blue eyed , epitome of muscle beach Dave Draper
Joe Weider did say if he put Arnold on the cover of his magazine he would sell more , but people make the leap that he fixed contests in order to do so which is a stretch , Arnold was on the magazines long before he started winning and if he wanted to fix the contests to promote Arnold , he would have never lost to Frank Zane in 68 or Sergio in 69 , it just defies logic
Lee Haney was Mr Olympia in the 1980s yet he didn't appear on the cover of Flex or Muscle & Fitness as much as Shawn Ray , who was ' marketable '
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According to this clown, (1) politics and mag sales had nothing to do with contest decisions because nothing was conclusively proven, and (2) Schwarzenegger was far out in front, no contest. ::)
Laughable.
You're idiot I never once claimed Arnold was for out in front your a LIAR I never once said it was NO contest I actually said the 1972 Mr Olympia that Arnold looks better in some pics and Sergio in others and either way it was a close contest .
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I personally don't think Arnold was any more marketable than Sergio , you have a Austrian with a heavy German accent or a Cuban with a heavy Spanish one , I don't buy either one being more marketable than a very clean cut college educated Frank Zane with a build that appeared attainable , or the tall blond blue eyed , epitome of muscle beach Dave Draper
Joe Weider did say if he put Arnold on the cover of his magazine he would sell more , but people make the leap that he fixed contests in order to do so which is a stretch , Arnold was on the magazines long before he started winning and if he wanted to fix the contests to promote Arnold , he would have never lost to Frank Zane in 68 or Sergio in 69 , it just defies logic
Lee Haney was Mr Olympia in the 1980s yet he didn't appear on the cover of Flex or Muscle & Fitness as much as Shawn Ray , who was ' marketable '
Following this idiotic reasoning, just because ND "personally doesn't think Arnold was more marketable" then it was 100% untrue & the excuses continue. hahaahahahahahah
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I personally don't think Arnold was any more marketable than Sergio , you have a Austrian with a heavy German accent or a Cuban with a heavy Spanish one , I don't buy either one being more marketable than a very clean cut college educated Frank Zane with a build that appeared attainable , or the tall blond blue eyed , epitome of muscle beach Dave Draper
Joe Weider did say if he put Arnold on the cover of his magazine he would sell more , but people make the leap that he fixed contests in order to do so which is a stretch , Arnold was on the magazines long before he started winning and if he wanted to fix the contests to promote Arnold , he would have never lost to Frank Zane in 68 or Sergio in 69 , it just defies logic
Lee Haney was Mr Olympia in the 1980s yet he didn't appear on the cover of Flex or Muscle & Fitness as much as Shawn Ray , who was ' marketable '
Arnold was doing the 'American dream'. Politically, Cuba was hardly a friend of America. Finally, Arnold was willing to do what it took- I doubt Sergio complied with the Weirders' wishes as much as Arnold.
ND, it doesn't 'defy' logic. You should stop using such remarkable hyperbole. Just because you can't think of why, doesn't mean anyone else can.
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Arnold had better biceps IMO.
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Breaking down individual areas is a weak strategy for overlooking Oliva's overall advantages in taper, balance and overall size, which are some of the most fundamental elements. On individual areas there was advantages for both that have nothing to do with the above.
As far as conditioning, this is a convenient rationalization because Oliva was in shape when it counted-exactly why his challenge to Schwarzenegger sitting in the audience was refused at a neutral contest. I'm quite sure that had Oliva not been in shape, Schwarzenegger would've been right up there posing, just as Columbu did.
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Fair enough, although I would say that Sergio had the better arms. They may have lacked peak but they were long and full and looked like two footballs. The rest I can agree that Arnold had over Sergio.
Sergio had much better triceps and forearms ! but his biceps were behind Arnolds.
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Oliva was too thick skinned to look conditioned. Arnold had better lat width while surrendering taper to Sergio. Arnold's arms were massive as was the rest of the upper body. He accomplished alot with his physique during his reign and then after he trained with Jones he got better.
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I guess it might be preference but he appears more massive to me.
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Breaking down individual areas is a weak strategy for overlooking Oliva's HUGE advantages in taper, balance and overall size, which are some of the most fundamental elements.
As far as conditioning, this is a convenient rationalization because Oliva was in shape when it counted-exactly why his challenge to Schwarzenegger sitting in the audience was refused at a neutral contest.
LMFAO man you're so stupid idiot it was NOT a ' neutral ' contest it was a IFBB contest the Mr International in 1973 and get this he wasn't himself either he was just 218 pounds according to Sergio himself ! and he tried to call out Arnold at a contest he trianed for while Arnold was in the final stages of prep for the 1973 Mr Olympia , Sergio thought if he could catch an off Arnold he would have a better chance at beating him and here is the best part Sergio was invited to see who the Worlds Best Built Man was at the 1973 Mr Olympia a month later and HE DECLINED he refused to compete with Arnold , he wanted Arnold now
points to ponder Arnold beat Sergio THREE times previously and Bill Pearl OUTRIGHT beat Sergio in 1971 while Sergio was training with Arther Jones NO LESS !! and here is the best part you can't cry " Weider Politics " because it was an N.A.B.B.A. contest which Joe had ZERO control over , you have nothing for me pumpster .
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LMFAO man you're so stupid idiot it was NOT a ' neutral ' contest it was a IFBB contest the Mr International in 1973 and get this he wasn't himself either he was just 218 pounds according to Sergio himself ! and he tried to call out Arnold at a contest he trianed for while Arnold was in the final stages of prep for the 1973 Mr Olympia , Sergio thought if he could catch an off Arnold he would have a better chance at beating him and here is the best part Sergio was invited to see who the Worlds Best Built Man was at the 1973 Mr Olympia a month later and HE DECLINED he refused to compete with Arnold , he wanted Arnold now
points to ponder Arnold beat Sergio THREE times previously and Bill Pearl OUTRIGHT beat Sergio in 1971 while Sergio was training with Arther Jones NO LESS !! and here is the best part you can't cry " Weider Politics " because it was an N.A.B.B.A. contest which Joe had ZERO control over , you have nothing for me pumpster .
Pumpster owned yet again 8)
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Oliva was too thick skinned to look conditioned. Arnold had better lat width while surrendering taper to Sergio. Arnold's arms were massive as was the rest of the upper body. He accomplished alot with his physique during his reign and then after he trained with Jones he got better.
Interesting- both didn't have extraordinarily wide lats but today's standards. ND, Matt, who do you think ahd wider lats?
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Pumpster owned yet again 8)
Pubes, ND's trained seal in on cue, with absolutely nothing to say as always.
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Interesting- both didn't have extraordinarily wide lats but today's standards. ND, Matt, who do you think ahd wider lats?
I would say Sergio and his latspread was more impressive .
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The fundamental problem is that BBs outside of the Weider sphere of influence really didn't get much good exposure in the 1970s, either in monthly magazine coverage or unfortunately, in Pumping Iron, which unnecessarily departed from the more accurate depiction of BB in the book.
Even a few minutes of training footage of Oliva, Nubret, Robinson & Padilla for example, would've allowed them to be recorded on even footing with Weider's stars for posterity. It was decided to make the movie deliberately Weider-centric.
As a result, everyone has vivid footage of Schwarzenegger in top shape, but not anything comparable of Oliva or Nubret. Oliva in particular we're left with precious little quality photography or video from which to make fair comparisons.
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Here is pumpster psyching up to do a monster set of bench presses on his bowflex hahahahahahah ahahahahahah
(http://stfuanddie.com/gallery/d/81-2/moron.jpg)
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Here is pumpster psyching up to do a monster set of bench presses on his bowflex hahahahahahah ahahahahahah
(http://stfuanddie.com/gallery/d/81-2/moron.jpg)
hahahahahah man this is like 5-year old shit.
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LMAO let's watch in bemusement as Pubes & ND hijack their own thread too, in juvenile fashion once again. hahaahahahahahaahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahaahah ahahah
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pumpster OWNED hahahahah ahahahaha .....
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pumpster OWNED hahahahah ahahahaha .....
That means alot, the 252nd time around dumbass...no originality whatsoever hahahaahahahahahahahahah
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Here is pumpster psyching up to do a monster set of bench presses on his bowflex hahahahahahah ahahahahahah
(http://stfuanddie.com/gallery/d/81-2/moron.jpg)
look at that faggola...hahahahahahaha hah faggola hahaha
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The fundamental problem is that BBs outside of the Weider sphere of influence really didn't get much good exposure, either in mags or unfortunately in Pumping Iron, which unnecessarily departed from a more accurate depiction of BB in the book.
Even a few minutes of training footage of Oliva, Nubret, Robinson & Padilla for example, would've allowed them far more even footing with Weider's stars. IMO it was decided to make the movie deliberately Weider-centric. As a result, everyone has vivid footage of Schwarzenegger but not anything comparable of a comparable Oliva or Nubret.
Thats nonsense there were plenty of other magazines on the world of bodybuilding ever back then , Strenght & Health , Ironman , Musclar Development , MuscleMag International all NONE WEIDER publications
Oliva choose to leave the IFBB an compete in the WGGB and for this he was suspended he thought the grass was greener on the other side and paid the price for it , he did return to the IFBB just like everyone else with the exception of Kal .
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Why don't the 2 dumbasses ND & Pubes hijack another 2 pages of the thread?
hahahaahahahahahahahah
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ND, what are your thoughts on how pumpster is psyching up to do a monster set of bench presses on his bowflex?
(http://stfuanddie.com/gallery/d/81-2/moron.jpg)
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LMAO let's watch in bemusement as Pubes & ND hijack their own thread too, in juvenile fashion once again. hahaahahahahahaahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahaahah ahahah
I didn't highjack this thread , moron I posted pics of Sergio and I fucking demoralized your dumbass for your ignorant rant , so know your role because you are now MY BITCH !
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Thats nonsense there were plenty of other magazines on the world of bodybuilding ever back then , Strenght & Health , Ironman , Musclar Development , MuscleMag International all NONE WEIDER publications
Oliva choose to leave the IFBB an compete in the WGGB and for this he was suspended he thought the grass was greener on the other side and paid the price for it , he did return to the IFBB just like everyone else with the exception of Kal .
In that case, let us know where the Oliva & Nubret movie training & interview footage is. Watching that movie you'd never have known there were any other serious competitors in the rest of the world.
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Why don't the 2 dumbasses ND & Pubes hijack another 2 pages of the thread?
hahahaahahahahahahahah
And you're the one who after getting owned started posting a pic of a Seal , you highjacked this thread after getting a litteral beatdown
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I didn't highjack this thread , moron I posted pics of Sergio and I fucking demoralized your dumbass for your ignorant rant , so know your role because you are now MY BITCH !
You're a laughing stock with endless thread hijacks. Brainless little baby should hijack 2 more pages and post pics of the Bowflexes he's trying to sell. LMAO
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You're a laughing stock with endless thread hijacks. Brainless little baby.
I didn't highjack this thread you did , you posted a picture of a seal , I posted several pictures of Sergio , you're a moron and its easy to mentally rape you .
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I didn't highjack this thread you did , you posted a picture of a seal , I posted several pictures of Sergio , you're a moron and its easy to mentally rape you .
Your bitch Pubes posted something-more selective memory from a weirdo.
Hurry, hijack another 2 pages with juvenile idiocies...hurry..
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Your bitch Pubes posted something-more selective memory from a weirdo.
Hurry, hijack another 2 pages with juvenile idiocies...hurry..
watching you be mentally raped is very funny.
Keep up the good work ND 8)
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And you fucking moron pumpster how exactly can I highjack MY OWN thread? lol
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And you fucking moron pumpster how exactly can I highjack MY OWN thread? lol
don't even bother responding to him anymore ND....we are dealing with a mental midget here :-\
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don't even bother responding to him anymore ND....we are dealing with a mental midget here :-\
I mean I've easily proved him wrong and then he posts a picture of a seal and I highjacked MY own thread? lol maybe he's on bizzaro world or something lol
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I personally don't think Arnold was any more marketable than Sergio , you have a Austrian with a heavy German accent or a Cuban with a heavy Spanish one ,
Back then accent didn't matter. All of bodybuilding and supplements, weight training equipt. was done through print. There was no radio/tv for the bodybuilding world. So Arnold's accent and poor english grammar didn't matter. He could be ghost written for and no one would be the wiser.
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Stop bitching about thread hijacks- you're hijacking it about bitching about the other hijacking it.
On a more comical note, pumpster, is that picture of you?
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Arnold was amazing but Sergio is the only bodybuilder who really had the complete package back then and could really stand onstage today (granted he'd have to get a bit more ripped, but the muscle's all there).
How many guys today beat this?
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so5.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so8.jpg)
This was a guest posing! Amazing v-taper/x-frame.
(http://digilander.libero.it/gruppociak/so69.jpg)
DAMN! THICK muscle!
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so186.jpg)
He's what Dexter Jackson would be if he had calves, a bigger chest/forearms and a smaller/tighter waist (without those obliques):
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so169.jpg)
And he did it all starting almost 40 years ago. (meaning he started looking like that almost 40 years ago. I know he actually started before that)
Oh...and no gyno.
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Yeah his frame actually looks alot like Dexter's in that second-last pic- interesting!
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Arnold was amazing but Sergio is the only bodybuilder who really had the complete package back then and could really stand onstage today (granted he'd have to get a bit more ripped, but the muscle's all there).
How many guys today beat this?
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so5.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so8.jpg)
This was a guest posing! Amazing v-taper/x-frame.
(http://digilander.libero.it/gruppociak/so69.jpg)
DAMN! THICK muscle!
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so186.jpg)
He's what Dexter Jackson would be if he had calves, a bigger chest/forearms and a smaller/tighter waist (without those obliques):
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so169.jpg)
And he did it all starting almost 40 years ago. (meaning he started looking like that almost 40 years ago. I know he actually started before that)
Oh...and no gyno.
Those shots really blow me away. Sergio on modern pharmeceuticals would have been scary.
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Those are some of the best photos of Sergio I have ever seen. Incredibly impressive. IMO, it was really close between Sergio and Arnold most years...easy to argue in favor of either guy. In most contests, Arnold had a little more separation and conditioning, plus a better stage presence which could justify him edging out Sergio most times. No doubt, the weiders preferred arnold to be the champ...but I think he beat sergio on most occasions, though extremely close. Either one of these guys would be champions today with their genetics. Then there was Serge Nubret who actually had a more pleasing physique than Sergio and Arnold...maybe lacked a little overall mass comparitively. Three of the best BBers ever right there! I prefer their physiques to most of the guys today.
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Those are some of the best photos of Sergio I have ever seen. Incredibly impressive. IMO, it was really close between Sergio and Arnold most years...easy to argue in favor of either guy. In most contests, Arnold had a little more separation and conditioning, plus a better stage presence which could justify him edging out Sergio most times. No doubt, the weiders preferred arnold to be the champ...but I think he beat sergio on most occasions, though extremely close. Either one of these guys would be champions today with their genetics. Then there was Serge Nubret who actually had a more pleasing physique than Sergio and Arnold...maybe lacked a little overall mass comparitively. Three of the best BBers ever right there! I prefer their physiques to most of the guys today.
I agree on most of that but I think Sergio looked better than Serge (at Sergio's best). They both had pleasing shape to their muscles/physiques but only Sergio was in proportion. Serge's legs and lats were under-proportioned and some of his muscle bellies (like his forearms) were a little too short.
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To repeat after ignoring the last pages, Arnold benefitted from far better and far more numerous good pics and film footage from Pumping Iron that Oliva didn't. It would be easy to jump to conclusions based on that imbalance in evidence.
In shape, it's a coin-toss between them, just a matter of preference.
Here, Oliva beating Schwarzenegger on virtually all levels, losing on none:
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Very comparable, despite desperate excuses to the contrary & desperate attempts to distract via thread hijacks by Beavis & Butthead:
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Who called Dorian the Blocky white guy? ;)
Dorian is a blocky white guy....how is that racist?
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Dorian is a blocky white guy....how is that racist?
hahahah So true. Basically they'll jump on any excuse. ;)
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sergio loses all credibility because he juiced for that physique and now looks like a pile of shit because of the juice causing all sorts of problems
serge nubret is still a bad motha fucka to this day
Credibility? lol. Didn't Arnold, Zane, Columbo, Draper, Lou etc. juice? And you're telling me no other bodybuilder juiced from his era? Face it, Sergio had the greatest genetics ever. He looks like how he looks now because of something called "age".
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Arnold was amazing but Sergio is the only bodybuilder who really had the complete package back then and could really stand onstage today (granted he'd have to get a bit more ripped, but the muscle's all there).
How many guys today beat this?
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so5.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so8.jpg)
This was a guest posing! Amazing v-taper/x-frame.
(http://digilander.libero.it/gruppociak/so69.jpg)
DAMN! THICK muscle!
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so186.jpg)
He's what Dexter Jackson would be if he had calves, a bigger chest/forearms and a smaller/tighter waist (without those obliques):
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so169.jpg)
And he did it all starting almost 40 years ago. (meaning he started looking like that almost 40 years ago. I know he actually started before that)
Oh...and no gyno.
The picture with Sergio shaking hands with the photographer is amazing. Without a doubt one of the best of all time! :o :o :o
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Check out his arms they look bigger than his quads !!
It was documented in a book that Sergio's arms were bigger than his head and Sergio's quads were bigger than his waist. That shows you how great of an "X" taper the guy had.
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Credibility? lol. Didn't Arnold, Zane, Columbo, Draper, Lou etc. juice? And you're telling me no other bodybuilder juiced from his era? Face it, Sergio had the greatest genetics ever. He looks like how he looks now because of something called "age".
This ND's a serial liar. Words are like gold lead. Made-up as he goes along.
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=111479.0;attach=126722;image)
The story goes that Ben Weider's son saw Sergio at the 1969 Olympia and said "Daddy, who's the man with the four legs".
SERGIO!!!!
lol, that was a good one.
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The picture with Sergio shaking hands with the photographer is amazing. Without a doubt one of the best of all time! :o :o :o
Isn't it incredible? A lot of the BB's are huge but when you see them next to normal people, they don't always look as impressive (usually because they're so short). But Sergio, next to that guy, looks amazing!
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so186.jpg)
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Dorian is a blocky white guy....how is that racist?
I never said it was racist , I said pumpster constantly brings up a persons race , and this is the comment that pumpy gets heat for
pumpster
Who cares what Lee Priest says, he's not exactly stable on his 3rd marriage.
Lots of racism still around in redneck Australia as well.
Classic bricklayer shot..
He implied Lee Priest was racist by virtue of being born in Australia and this is because of Lee Preist when asked if Dorian could beat Ronnie he said yes with ease .
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Arnold had more market appeal and of course Joe Weider's goal was to sell magazines, what any good businessman would want to do. But as good as Arnold was he still had characteristics of a human being while Sergio was all cartoon. I don't think we'll ever see a taper like his again.
Try telling that to some of the "nut jobs" on here who don't believe in selling more magazines and who is more marketable. All politics as Arnold even said in his book many times, but still know one wants to believe it. The one guy (Arnold) who made what bodybuilding is today stated what really is going on and no one wants to hear it. lol. it's a complete joke.
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Try telling that to some of the "nut jobs" on here who don't believe in selling more magazines and who is more marketable. All politics as Arnold even said in his book many times, but still know one wants to believe it. The one guy (Arnold) who made what bodybuilding is today stated what really is going on and no one wants to hear it. lol. it's a complete joke.
Politics is an excuse when you have nothing left.
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It's probably debatable that Arnold beat Sergio on abs because he had better conditioning. Remember, whilst Sergio had crappy abs, he also had off conditioning. And Arnold's were weird- he had a four-pack.
Further, I think the biceps issue is a matter of taste. Peak is cool, but I've always thought that long biceps like Sergio and Levrone's are much more powerful-looking and impressive.
Posing ability doesn't affect who had the better physique.
Crappy abs? Not crappy, but not the best. Here is a good ab shot pic of sergio.
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Those are some of the best photos of Sergio I have ever seen. Incredibly impressive. IMO, it was really close between Sergio and Arnold most years...easy to argue in favor of either guy. In most contests, Arnold had a little more separation and conditioning, plus a better stage presence which could justify him edging out Sergio most times. No doubt, the weiders preferred arnold to be the champ...but I think he beat sergio on most occasions, though extremely close. Either one of these guys would be champions today with their genetics. Then there was Serge Nubret who actually had a more pleasing physique than Sergio and Arnold...maybe lacked a little overall mass comparitively. Three of the best BBers ever right there! I prefer their physiques to most of the guys today.
Great post.
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Crappy abs? Not crappy, but not the best. Here is a good ab shot pic of sergio.
Debating points with really old pictures is pointless. There are a few pics that make Boyer C look to have decent abs.
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Crappy abs? Not crappy, but not the best. Here is a good ab shot pic of sergio.
Now find a pic of Sergio at 240 pounds with those abs !
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I personally don't think Arnold was any more marketable than Sergio , you have a Austrian with a heavy German accent or a Cuban with a heavy Spanish one , I don't buy either one being more marketable than a very clean cut college educated Frank Zane with a build that appeared attainable , or the tall blond blue eyed , epitome of muscle beach Dave Draper
Joe Weider did say if he put Arnold on the cover of his magazine he would sell more , but people make the leap that he fixed contests in order to do so which is a stretch , Arnold was on the magazines long before he started winning and if he wanted to fix the contests to promote Arnold , he would have never lost to Frank Zane in 68 or Sergio in 69 , it just defies logic
Lee Haney was Mr Olympia in the 1980s yet he didn't appear on the cover of Flex or Muscle & Fitness as much as Shawn Ray , who was ' marketable '
Joe was a private owner and had to choose who to put on the cover of his magazines during the 60's and 70's. He would put Arnold (white) over Sergio (colored). This happened during a critical time when colored people were not treated well and alot of Racism was around, more than today. If I'm the owner and I have a white guy that can make me millions and I have a colored guy that can only make me half of what the white guy can make me. Let me guess, who should I promote more and make champion?
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Now find a pic of Sergio at 240 pounds with those abs !
More attempts to distort & change the subject; changes nothing.
Neither Schwarzenegger & Oliva had great 6-packs but he only mentions Oliva. Not that important-a small waist was more vital. Oliva's waist was much smaller & V much better.
More distortions.
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You're idiot I never once claimed Arnold was for out in front your a LIAR I never once said it was NO contest I actually said the 1972 Mr Olympia that Arnold looks better in some pics and Sergio in others and either way it was a close contest .
I asked Serge Nubret in his opinion, who deserved to win the '72 Olympia. He said Sergio. Serge Nubret took part in that Olympia and came third.
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Joe was a private owner and had to choose who to put on the cover of his magazines during the 60's and 70's. He would put Arnold (white) over Sergio (colored). This happened during a critical time when colored people were not treated well and alot of Racism was around, more than today. If I'm the owner and I have a white guy that can make me millions and I have a colored guy that can only make me half of what the white guy can make me. Let me guess, who should I promote more and make champion?
Now you are claiming Arnold was only a champion because of Weider ::) Arnold was better then Sergio in contest form and that is why he beat Sergio all those times. If Sergio got ripped, then you would have a point.
Btw, are you black?
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I asked Serge Nubret in his opinion, who deserved to win the '72 Olympia. He said Sergio. Serge Nubret took part in that Olympia and came third.
Who cares? This point is laughable. Serge could have his own axe to grind. Just like if you asked Zane who should have won and he said Arnold. Does not mean a thing.
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Joe was a private owner and had to choose who to put on the cover of his magazines during the 60's and 70's. He would put Arnold (white) over Sergio (colored). This happened during a critical time when colored people were not treated well and alot of Racism was around, more than today. If I'm the owner and I have a white guy that can make me millions and I have a colored guy that can only make me half of what the white guy can make me. Let me guess, who should I promote more and make champion?
Again if this were the case , if Joe Weider did handpick Arnold because he was white , one why ever let Sergio beat Arnold in 1969? why not nip it in the bud and let Arnold win and have a full 365 days to market his white knight , and two WHY on Gods green earth ever let Sergio win in the fucking first place? Why when they had the blond hair blue eyed All-American beach-boy Dave Draper in the mid 1960s? or Chuck Sipes? and you gibe these magazine sales theory way to much credit , bodybuilding was back then was still a very underground sport and no way on earth where they making ' millions ' with the magazines or contests. Weider didn't need Arnold to be Mr Olympia to have him on magazines , he was on the cover of many magazines well before he ever turned Pro , same with Frank Zane , etc
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I asked Serge Nubret in his opinion, who deserved to win the '72 Olympia. He said Sergio. Serge Nubret took part in that Olympia and came third.
What's funny is that i mentioned this to the liar ND, who promptly went on to the Nubret site but could not question it because it's true. hahahahahahhha
Nubret also confirmed the politics that this liar claims don't exist.
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Who cares what Serge says? The guy is ob angry at Weider. Even if Arnold clearly deserved to win he would not have admitted it.
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More backpeddling that doesn't change reality.
Neither Schwarzenegger & Oliva had great 6-packs but he only mentions Oliva. Also leaves out that Oliva's waist was much smaller & V much better.
More distortions.
Its not backpeddling is the truth Sergio lost his conditioning when he got heavy and Arnold might not have had the best abs ever but they were clearly more visable than Sergios
And whats the sense of having a smaller waist is you have no detail to showcase? Sergio did have a better taper and a smaller waist and he still lost.
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Fair enough, although I would say that Sergio had the better arms. They may have lacked peak but they were long and full and looked like two footballs. The rest I can agree that Arnold had over Sergio.
Arnold definitely had the better bicep, but Sergio had the better arms. Sergio had better forearms no contest. Sergio had the better triceps no contest. Sergio had better delts. The way all of those muscles connected to his delts were simply amazing. Even "Iron Age" rated Sergio to have better "arms" than Arnold.
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Now you are claiming Arnold was only a champion because of Weider ::) Arnold was better then Sergio in contest form and that is why he beat Sergio all those times. If Sergio got ripped, then you would have a point.
Btw, are you black?
No offense but that's a ludicrous jump in logic into a black & white scenario of one or the other. Schwarzenegger was great AND got plenty of benefits along the way.
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I asked Serge Nubret in his opinion, who deserved to win the '72 Olympia. He said Sergio. Serge Nubret took part in that Olympia and came third.
I'm NOT saying Arnold should have won or lost but what I do know it was close , perhaps Sergio should have won but for those who say Arnold wasn't even close is delusional .
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What's funny is that i mentioned this to the liar ND, who promptly went on to the Nubret site but could not question it because it's true. hahahahahahhha
Nubret also confirmed the politics that this liar claims don't exist.
What the hell are you talking about? I've never been on Nubret's site and he has an opinion and maybe he's right , maybe he's wrong.
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I'm NOT saying Arnold should have won or lost but what I do know it was close , perhaps Sergio should have won but for those who say Arnold wasn't even close is delusional .
1/ This liar has been claiming that at their best it's no contest. Farcical.
2/ He went on to the Nubret thread after i brought up Nubret's comments on both guys and on contest politics, but was unable to find anything to use to refute my accuracy. ;D
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No offense but that's a ludicrous jump in logic into a black & white scenario of one or the other. Schwarzenegger was great AND got plenty of benefits along the way.
None taken. But, the post claimed Weider made Arnold a champion. I think Arnolds genetics and work ethic made him the champion. I know if Sergio was as ripped as Arnie he would have won any contest he entered.
I know Arnie got some breaks because of the time period. But, I think he also backed up beating Sergio with a slightly better package.
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And Bertil Fox and Ronnie.
And that pretty well completes the list of black men with big calves in the history of pro bodybuilding.
Ronnie? which Ronnie? Not Ronnie Coleman. He has good calves but not "huge" calves like Sergio.
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None taken. But, the post claimed weider made Arnold a champion. I think Arnolds genetics and work ethic made him the champion. I know if Sergio was as ripped as Arnie he would win any contest he entered. But, he never was.
Sergio if in condition didn't have to be quite as ripped to win against him, because each guy had advantages the other didn't. That's why it's just personal preference.
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1/ This liar has been claiming that at their best it's no contest. Farcical.
2/ He went on to the Nubret thread after i brought up Nubret's comments on both guys and on contest politics, but was unable to find anything to use to refute it. ;D
I dare you to find me one quote where I said it wasn't close , in terms of conditioning it wasn't close
And again moron I've never been on Nubret's site you're full of shit and I don't need to refut anything Sergio lost ;)
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I dare you to find me one quote where I said it wasn't close , in terms of conditioning it wasn't close
And again moron I've never been on Nubret's site you're full of shit and I don't need to refut anything Sergio lost ;)
See his whole MO is to try to deflect to something else, instead of dealing with the issue he's losing. Like a broken record. Notice he never tries to prove anyone else's points while insisting they should prove his.
Verdict:
BORING
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Sergio if in condition didn't have to be quite as ripped to win against him, because each guy had advantages the other didn't. That's why it's just personal preference.
Obviously he did need to be ripped and thats the main reason he lost , if he was ripped like Arnold , Sergio's package is better and he would have beaten Arnold , Sergio is like Flex Wheeler he relied to much on his genetics to carry him along and thats all good and well when facing guys like Chuck Sipes and Harold Poole but NOT Arnold.
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I would say Sergio and his latspread was more impressive .
I agree.
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See his whole MO is to try to deflect to something else, instead of dealing with the issue he's losing. Like a broken record. Notice he never tries to prove anyone else's points while insisting they should prove his.
Verdict:
BORING
You're the one claiming the contrary I never once said Arnold was so far ahead of Sergio it wasn't close , you made the claim and I laughed it off , this is your perfect opportunity to prove me wrong and avenge all the times I've owned you , but you know better ;) just like when you claimed I used ' morphed ' pictures and I posted the whole pic directly from the magazine after that you got quite as usual , I know when I've proven you dead wrong because you run from the thread .
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Over & over again ND has said that '72 was close, but all-time it wasn't because Oliva wasn't in shape, to which i call BS. ;)
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Over & over again ND has said that '72 was close, but all-time it wasn't because Oliva wasn't in shape, to which i call BS. ;)
1972 was close if anything and I'm more than willing to admit maybe Sergio did deserve to win , I've maintained numerous times that in some pictures Sergio looks like a clear winner and others Arnold does , I've never seen the video of the contest so I really haven't committed a 100% clear opinion on a winner .
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Politics is an excuse when you have nothing left.
Nothing left? Is that all you got? Everyone knows and can't deny there are politics running bodybuilding. What's so hard to understand? I'll leave at that because you can argue all you want. At the end of the day Joe and Ben are the ones laughing all the way to the bank.
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Debating points with really old pictures is pointless. There are a few pics that make Boyer C look to have decent abs.
Old pics? lol that's a good one. If you didn't notice, Sergio was a bodybuilder from the 60's through the 80's. So, I just posted a good ab shot pic of Sergio. What you just said is like posting an old pic of Arnold's bicep and saying Arnold never had good biceps. lol. These pics are from that era. Is that too hard to understand? lol.
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Now find a pic of Sergio at 240 pounds with those abs !
Here is one where Sergio is close to 230 pounds and still have awesome abs. There aren't thousands of pics around of Sergio like there are of Arnold.
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Old pics? lol that's a good one. If you didn't notice, Sergio was a bodybuilder from the 60's through the 80's. So, I just posted a good ab shot pic of Sergio. What you just said is like posting an old pic of Arnold's bicep and saying Arnold never had good biceps. lol. These pics are from that era. Is that too hard to understand? lol.
lol I was making ther point that lol you can find good pictures lol to prove lol any point lol I can find just as many bad pictures lol to prove my point to lol. lol I used the term "old" lol referring to the lol picture itself lol not thinking lol you could lol provide lol recent lol pictures to lol prove your point lol. Basing your lol argument solely lol on pictures lol is subjective at best lol.i lol can lol show you lol a picture lol that Kovaks lol looks great in.
Sergio lol lost to Arnold lol in cotest lol because Arnie lol was more detailed lol and in better condition lol. Hence, lol presented the lol better package lol.
hope this helps..... lol
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Sergio with abs and hair. 8)
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Now you are claiming Arnold was only a champion because of Weider ::) Arnold was better then Sergio in contest form and that is why he beat Sergio all those times. If Sergio got ripped, then you would have a point.
Btw, are you black?
Most people believe Sergio was better than Arnold in '70 and '72. Surge Nubret said Sergio should have won in '72. Even Arnold said "Politics" in 70' and 72'.
My father met Ben in Toronto after 70' Olympia and had a conversation with him. My father asked Ben what were they thinking and told him how many people including himself thought that Sergio was the clear winner in '70 Olympia. And you know what? Ben said quote "Sergio was the real winner".
By the way, why should I tell you if I'm black or white?
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Most people believe Sergio was better than Arnold in '70 and '72. Surge Nubret said Sergio should have won in '72. Even Arnold said "Politics" in 70' and 72'.
My father met Ben in Toronto after 70' Olympia and had a conversation with him. My father asked Ben what were they thinking and told him how many people including himself thought that Sergio was the clear winner in '70 Olympia. And you know what? Ben said quote "Sergio was the real winner".
By the way, why should I tell you if I'm black or white?
I am just wondering. I find alot of black men get upset when a white man beats them in a contest based on genetics or athletic ability. I see traces of it on here from time to time.
Kind of like when I was offended over Micheal Irvin's comments about Romo. You should hear the shit Larry Johnson got away with saying. Most do not even know as little to no attention was brought to the incident. Yet , most black men thought it was no big deal. But, if the comments where reversed would be the first screaming racism and for the author of the comments to be fired.
I am not even close to racist so please answer the question.
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Again if this were the case , if Joe Weider did handpick Arnold because he was white , one why ever let Sergio beat Arnold in 1969? why not nip it in the bud and let Arnold win and have a full 365 days to market his white knight , and two WHY on Gods green earth ever let Sergio win in the fucking first place? Why when they had the blond hair blue eyed All-American beach-boy Dave Draper in the mid 1960s? or Chuck Sipes? and you gibe these magazine sales theory way to much credit , bodybuilding was back then was still a very underground sport and no way on earth where they making ' millions ' with the magazines or contests. Weider didn't need Arnold to be Mr Olympia to have him on magazines , he was on the cover of many magazines well before he ever turned Pro , same with Frank Zane , etc
I've answered this before. I'm not going to waste my time on you. Sergio was simply better than Draper and Sipes. That enough proof for you? Arnold couldn't have won in '69 because Joe was building him up. You know, when a fighter fights a few tune up fights before he fights for the heavyweight Championship? Joe was making millions. the IFBB didn't only operate in America. It was world wide. He not only made money from magazine covers. He made money from promotions, weider equipment and clothing Gear, many contracts with other promoters around the world. I've answered your questions with great answers, but yet you seem not to look at the big picture.
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What's funny is that i mentioned this to the liar ND, who promptly went on to the Nubret site but could not question it because it's true. hahahahahahhha
Nubret also confirmed the politics that this liar claims don't exist.
We all know it's the truth. Didn't ND post a quote from Lee Priest saying that you have to actually be there and see Yates in person to see how great he was and that he was the winner? Something close to that.
This is the samething here. Serge Nubret was there and took part and came 3rd and saw both guys in person an said that Sergio should of won.
So why are we having this argument?
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We all know it's the truth. Didn't ND post a quote from Lee Priest saying that you have to actually be there and see Yates in person to see how great he was and that he was the winner? Something close to that.
This is the samething here. Serge Nubret was there and took part and came 3rd and saw both guys in person an said that Sergio should of won.
So why are we having this argument?
Again, who cares what Serge said? Just because Serge said Sergio should have won that does not make it true. Not to mention, Serge was not a fan of Weider to start with.
Why are you trying to argue this point? So if Frank Zane attended the same contest and said Arnold should have won, does that prove Arnold was the rightful winner?
::)
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Here is one where Sergio is close to 230 pounds and still have awesome abs. There aren't thousands of pics around of Sergio like there are of Arnold.
I scanned that pic ;) and guess from where? A Weider mag.
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I've answered this before. I'm not going to waste my time on you. Sergio was simply better than Draper and Sipes. That enough proof for you? Arnold couldn't have won in '69 because Joe was building him up. You know, when a fighter fights a few tune up fights before he fights for the heavyweight Championship? Joe was making millions. the IFBB didn't only operate in America. It was world wide. He not only made money from magazine covers. He made money from promotions, weider equipment and clothing Gear, many contracts with other promoters around the world. I've answered your questions with great answers, but yet you seem not to look at the big picture.
Its NOT a matter of Sergio being better than Draper or Sipes , you've admitted that Arnold beat Sergio despite NOT being better than Sergio it defies logic . If the Weider's did handpick winners of major contests based solely on marketability Sergio would have never beaten Dave Draper or Chuck Sipes in 1967/68 and lets say he did beat them like according to you he would have surely lost to Arnold at the 1969 Mr Olympia despite if he was ' ready or not '
Weider in the 1960s and early 1970s wasn't making millions of dollars , magazine subscriptions weren't like they were in the mid to late 1980s , and again Arnold didn't need to be a champion to have him on the cover of magazines , in the late 1980s and early 1990s Shawn Ray was on the cover of Flex Magazine more than Lee Haney who was the current Mr Olympia winner , so why NOT have Shawn Ray as Mr Olympia? see your logic is flawed no matter which way you turn.
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Its NOT a matter of Sergio being better than Draper or Sipes , you've admitted that Arnold beat Sergio despite NOT being better than Sergio it defies logic .
Come on ND, that doesn't defy logic ::). Often is the case that the best person doesn't win in a contest- whatever the sport. Defying logic means it's not conceivable. It's completely conceivable.
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Come on ND, that doesn't defy logic ::). Often is the case that the best person doesn't win in a contest- whatever the sport. Defying logic means it's not conceivable. It's completely conceivable.
My point was he can't have it both ways , in one sentence he's claiming that Weider would handpick guys just because of their marketability and then when I posed the question why not chose guys who would be more marketable like Dave Draper or Chuck Sipes , and he claimed this didn't happen because they were not better than Sergio , yet in another post he claims that Arnold beat Sergio while not being better than him , its a contradiction .
Sure guys get overlooked his logic contradicts itself.
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My point was he can't have it both ways , in one sentence he's claiming that Weider would handpick guys just because of their marketability and then when I posed the question why not chose guys who would be more marketable like Dave Draper or Chuck Sipes , and he claimed this didn't happen because they were not better than Sergio , yet in another post he claims that Arnold beat Sergio while not being better than him , its a contradiction .
Sure guys get overlooked his logic contradicts itself.
Yeah. Maybe Draper and Sipes were deadshits? ;D
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Sergio with abs and hair. 8)
does that turn you on?
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does that turn you on?
Your always on time with your creepy comments/fantasies.
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I scanned that pic ;) and guess from where? A Weider mag.
And your point is?
Don't even start with the polotics stuff. It's been said before by many including myself. If you don't believe it, then you must also believe in the tooth fairy.
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Its NOT a matter of Sergio being better than Draper or Sipes , you've admitted that Arnold beat Sergio despite NOT being better than Sergio it defies logic . If the Weider's did handpick winners of major contests based solely on marketability Sergio would have never beaten Dave Draper or Chuck Sipes in 1967/68 and lets say he did beat them like according to you he would have surely lost to Arnold at the 1969 Mr Olympia despite if he was ' ready or not '
Weider in the 1960s and early 1970s wasn't making millions of dollars , magazine subscriptions weren't like they were in the mid to late 1980s , and again Arnold didn't need to be a champion to have him on the cover of magazines , in the late 1980s and early 1990s Shawn Ray was on the cover of Flex Magazine more than Lee Haney who was the current Mr Olympia winner , so why NOT have Shawn Ray as Mr Olympia? see your logic is flawed no matter which way you turn.
If you don't believe in the bodybuilding polotics game then you would never understand. I never said that Arnold beat Sergio, ever. In My opinion, Sergio deserved to win over Arnold every time they met, but Joe wouldn't let that happen because he was building up his "money machine". I've mentioned many other things more than magazines in my previous post but you fail you bring it up. You think bodybuilders only make money buy competing in contests? They make money with promotions, contracts, advertising, guest appearance etc. the list goes on. So please don't bring that logic bs to me.
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My point was he can't have it both ways , in one sentence he's claiming that Weider would handpick guys just because of their marketability and then when I posed the question why not chose guys who would be more marketable like Dave Draper or Chuck Sipes , and he claimed this didn't happen because they were not better than Sergio , yet in another post he claims that Arnold beat Sergio while not being better than him , its a contradiction .
Sure guys get overlooked his logic contradicts itself.
Find me a post where I said Arnold clearly beat Sergio? You can't. Stop spreading lies. Is that how low you are willing to go?
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Arnold dwarfs Sergio.
Hope this helps.
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Arnold dwarfs Sergio.
Hope this helps.
???
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Arnold dwarfs Sergio.
Hope this helps.
posing ability played a big role in this one...
arnold was an AWESOME poser... he made himself look better than he actually was... those twisting 3/4's were insane not forgetting the side chest and the front double bi.
sergio was a woeful poser... he generally DID eventually get himself into a reasonable position for most poses but his transitions were terrible and made him look small... don't forget he was only around 5'9 and 230 in cut shape - that ain't a huge man - he did have great hip structure though which helped him.
sergio also didn't have that low a lat insertion which didn't help him from behind... his lats were really thick but that thickness didn't start at the hip but much higher which is less flattering...
the rear comparison posted before really shows nubret's weaknesses too which he'd never admit - he had terrible calves and a weak back plain and simple...
what do you reckon disgusted?
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posing ability played a big role in this one...
arnold was an AWESOME poser... he made himself look better than he actually was... those twisting 3/4's were insane not forgetting the side chest and the front double bi.
sergio was a woeful poser... he generally DID eventually get himself into a reasonable position for most poses but his transitions were terrible and made him look small... don't forget he was only around 5'9 and 230 in cut shape - that ain't a huge man - he did have great hip structure though which helped him.
sergio also didn't have that low a lat insertion which didn't help him from behind... his lats were really thick but that thickness didn't start at the hip but much higher which is less flattering...
the rear comparison posted before really shows nubret's weaknesses too which he'd never admit - he had terrible calves and a weak back plain and simple...
what do you reckon disgusted?
This is a great shot of Sergio making a fool of Brunschwagger. Arnies lats inserted a little lower than Sergios but his fat waist ruined the look.
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Joe was a private owner and had to choose who to put on the cover of his magazines during the 60's and 70's. He would put Arnold (white) over Sergio (colored). This happened during a critical time when colored people were not treated well and alot of Racism was around, more than today. If I'm the owner and I have a white guy that can make me millions and I have a colored guy that can only make me half of what the white guy can make me. Let me guess, who should I promote more and make champion?
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In response to post #109:
Joe Weider was also among the first publishers, amid great controversy, to put a black bb, Leroy Colbert, on the cover of his magazine back in the '60's.
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Arnold dwarfs Sergio.
Hope this helps.
Funny, because he's getting owned here.
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Funny, because he's getting owned here.
Owned is too big a word. I would say schooled by the looks of things! ;)
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Owned is too big a word. I would say schooled by the looks of things! ;)
Semantics. ;)
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Funny, because he's getting owned here.
HAHAH look at Sergios tris :o good God!!!
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Arnold is owning them all in that last pic. When I see Sergio I don't think "olympian". He looks like a midget with odd proportions. Reminds me of Capriese Murray.
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If you don't believe in the bodybuilding polotics game then you would never understand. I never said that Arnold beat Sergio, ever. In My opinion, Sergio deserved to win over Arnold every time they met, but Joe wouldn't let that happen because he was building up his "money machine". I've mentioned many other things more than magazines in my previous post but you fail you bring it up. You think bodybuilders only make money buy competing in contests? They make money with promotions, contracts, advertising, guest appearance etc. the list goes on. So please don't bring that logic bs to me.
You're not getting the point
You claim the Weiders fix contests to make a marketable bodybuilder win
I said if thats the case why let Sergio ever win? why not let Draper or Sipes win?
You say they simply weren't good enough to beat Sergio
You say that Arnold shouldn't have beat Sergio anytime they faced each other
And I say If Arnold wasn't good enough to beat Sergio and the Weiders let him anyway , your logic contradicts itself , if they let Arnold win even though he wasn't as good as Sergio they good have just have easily made Draper beat Sergio , who was more marketable than Sergio , you're trapped in your own warped logic.
If the Weider's did work this way , Sergio Oliva would have never been Mr Olympia in 1967/68/69 , Dave Draper would have been in 1967/1968 until Arnold competed in the 1969 Mr Olympia and then they could have picked him , for marketing reasons ::)
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Find me a post where I said Arnold clearly beat Sergio? You can't. Stop spreading lies. Is that how low you are willing to go?
English must not be your first language. :-\ its NOT a lie I never claimed you said Arnold clearly beat Sergio I said You claimed Arnold beat Sergio despite NOT being better than him.
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people who say arnold NEVER beat sergio need their heads examined... he killed him in 1970
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Arnold is owning them all in that last pic. When I see Sergio I don't think "olympian". He looks like a midget with odd proportions. Reminds me of Capriese Murray.
Congratulations you are the only person ive ever heard call Sergio a midget. 5'10' 248 is one seriously big midget. You just flushed any creditability out the window.
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Congratulations you are the only person ive ever heard call Sergio a midget. 5'10' 248 is one seriously big midget. You just flushed any creditability out the window.
248 my ass
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Sergio was 5'10" and about 240 he was a very big guy but the bigger he got the more his detail suffered and this is what hurt him.
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posing ability played a big role in this one...
arnold was an AWESOME poser... he made himself look better than he actually was... those twisting 3/4's were insane not forgetting the side chest and the front double bi.
sergio was a woeful poser... he generally DID eventually get himself into a reasonable position for most poses but his transitions were terrible and made him look small... don't forget he was only around 5'9 and 230 in cut shape - that ain't a huge man - he did have great hip structure though which helped him.
As someone who has lots of footage of Sergio, I have to take offence to people who say he was a terrible poser. The only time his posing sucked was at the 1984 Olympia, and admittedly it was F*CK TERRIBLE. It wasn't much better at the 1985 Olympia, but it was better. His posing at the 1966 Mr World, 1968 & 1970 Olympia was great and at the 1972 Olympia he was as dynamic and aggressive as I've seen anyone pose. At the other shows I have, he's as good as anyone from the era. He may not have been Ed Corney or Lee Labrada but in his younger days he was pretty good.
SERGIO!!!!
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Sergio was a midget, oh my word!!
In those pics arnold looks good (i am a big fan of his!!), but sergio has him on tris, forearms, smaller waist bigger quads (arnolds r probs more detailed), other things r about the same, tho sergios lats look better from the front than arnolds. ANd his chest looks better from front.
davie
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Sergio was a midget, oh my word!!
In those pics arnold looks good (i am a big fan of his!!), but sergio has him on tris, forearms, smaller waist bigger quads (arnolds r probs more detailed), other things r about the same, tho sergios lats look better from the front than arnolds. ANd his chest looks better from front.
davie
I agree with everything except the chest ! Arnold's chest was the best.
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I agree with everything except the chest ! Arnold's chest was the best.
Arnold's chest was amazing. I'm undecided if he had more muscle than Sergio, or if it just came down to the monstrous rib cage he possessed.
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Arnold's chest was amazing. I'm undecided if he had more muscle than Sergio, or if it just came down to the monstrous rib cage he possessed.
He did have a rib cage probs more suited to a silver back gorilla lol.
I agree that he had amazing chest and that it was one of the best ever, but in that particular shot i wud giv it to sergio b/c i dont think that was a very good pose for arnold. It suited sergios chest better.
davie
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You guys are nuts if you think Sergio was owning Arnold in that pic. He has him on everything. Definition, biceps, quads, chest, and overall.
Sergio had no symmetry or balance at all. He looks like he could walk on his arms like a gorilla. He's 5'10''? Fine. Arnold makes him look short and unappealing. He damn sure isn't 248 either.
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You guys are nuts if you think Sergio was owning Arnold in that pic. He has him on everything. Definition, biceps, quads, chest, and overall.
Sergio had no symmetry or balance at all. He looks like he could walk on his arms like a gorilla. He's 5'10''? Fine. Arnold makes him look short and unappealing. He damn sure isn't 248 either.
Definition- fine, Arnold was in better condition. Biceps- we've already been over this, it's a matter of taste. Some people like short, high peaked biceps (Arnold). Others (me) think that long, full biceps (Levrone's, Oliva's) look more powerful and massive.
Quads, no way. Arnold might have Sergio on separation, but this comes back to the conditioning factor. Sergio's quads were considerably bigger than Arnold's, and had way better shape and sweep. Sergio's quads were actually round and curved from the front, way ahead of his peers. Chest, debatable. Arnold has a bigger ribcage, but Sergio has phenomenally (and famously) thick pecs.
No symmetry or balance? Where do I even begin tearing this apart? Firstly, Arnold just looks wrong in the front lat spread. His waist is way too big for his shoulder and back width, not to mention his quad sweep. The result is the classic fridge look- Arnold never looked good in this shot. Shoulders- Arnold has a narrow structure relative to his waist. Sergio isn't the widest guy around, but he can get away with it with a 29" waist. Plus, Sergio's shoulders are actually bigger and better developed. Arnold's bis are too big for his tris, his chest too big for his lats from the front. You call that balance or symmetry?
So then somehow you arrive at the conclusion that Arnold had better 'overall', ok, whatever the hell 'overall' is ::)
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Sergio loses "overall" because the physique doesn't flow.
In other words, he has no balance. He's a collection of great bodyparts that don't really match. Huge arms (though not bigger than Arnolds) on a torso and legs that doesn't match up.
His chest is definately not bigger. I forget which rag recently voted Arnold the greatest chest of all time, but he was in one of them. I don't think Serge even made top 10.
Arnold's waste isn't wide either. It's wider than Serge's, but I don't think Serge's small waste helps him. It just amplifies the total unbalance of his physique.
Standing the two together, Arnold looks more statuesque. He's a true bodybuilder, in that he made sure everything was balanced on his body. He sculpted his body like and artist would sculpt a statue. And he just looks so much more Olympian because of his height. Serge looks stalky.
Arnold - superior definition
Arnold - superior height
Arnold - superior chest
Arnold - superior biceps (imo)
Arnold - superior back (due to definition and thickness)
Arnold - superior quads (due to definition)
And the judges agree with me.
Serge = Capriese Murray :-X
(http://www.flexonline.com/05contests/05NY/menpre/images/FDBE0299.jpg)
"ALIEN MUSCLE" LOL
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Sergio loses "overall" because the physique doesn't flow.
In other words, he has no balance. He's a collection of great bodyparts that don't really match. Huge arms (though not bigger than Arnolds) on a torso and legs that doesn't match up.
His chest is definately not bigger. I forget which rag recently voted Arnold the greatest chest of all time, but he was in one of them. I don't think Serge even made top 10.
Arnold's waste isn't wide either. It's wider than Serge's, but I don't think Serge's small waste helps him. It just amplifies the total unbalance of his physique.
Standing the two together, Arnold looks more statuesque. He's a true bodybuilder, in that he made sure everything was balanced on his body. He sculpted his body like and artist would sculpt a statue. And he just looks so much more Olympian because of his height. Serge looks stalky.
Arnold - superior definition
Arnold - superior height
Arnold - superior chest
Arnold - superior biceps (imo)
Arnold - superior back (due to definition and thickness)
Arnold - superior quads (due to definition)
And the judges agree with me.
Serge = Capriese Murray :-X
(http://www.flexonline.com/05contests/05NY/menpre/images/FDBE0299.jpg)
"ALIEN MUSCLE" LOL
Sergio's arms are certainly bigger than Arnold's.
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c155/coconutsandapples/SergioOliva4.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=100168.0;attach=109334;image)
In that second shot, Sergio's tris are so big that his outer forearm- tricep is actually a circle.
I don't really care which mag voted what where and to who- Sergio had a massive chest. His physique doesn't flow? Relative to Arnold it flows just fine. He had a smaller waist, smaller bone structure and wider clavicles relative to his height- there are no problems with flow on Sergio's physique. His muscle bellies were long and full.
Arnold's waist was 34". Now this is Arnold's measurement, given in the same set that gave his arms as 22.25 and his chest as 57-58. So, I gather it's a minimum. Sergio's was tiny in comparison.
You're using these 'balance' and 'flow' concepts very loosely. Can you define them strictly, so we can understand what you mean, or so we can examine how you apply them to Sergio and Arnold?
Arnold looks more statueesque because he's taller, poses better and is in better condition.
Arnold is no truer a bodybuilder than Sergio. If you're defining this by balance on his body, well, sorry, but there are plenty of balance issues- I've alluded to them above (you didn't reply to that I notice).
No, he told us he sculpted his body like an artist in the same movie and in the same way as he told us he didn't attend his father's funeral. In otherwords- BS.
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Believe this may have been the same contest,
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=100168.0;attach=109566;image)
Try telling me Arnold had arms that size (includes forearms), back development or shape like that. You talk about Sergio not having balance? That shot is bodybuilding. Sometimes I think you mean Serge Nubret.
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Post some pics comparing the two together performing the same poses.
Arnold just dwarfes him.
Arnold flows, because each bodypart - arms, chest, legs, backs, etc is proportioned. Sergio is all arms. I don't see what the big deal is with this guy really. You don't care what the mags say, but most people do. These editors have been in the industry long enough to make these kind of decisions. Arnold was selected as having the greatest chest of all time! This shouldn't even be up for debate. His arms were just huge with massive peaks. Full AND peaked. The total package.
Take a tall guy, with bigger shoulders, chest, biceps, and FAR superior definition, and I'll show you the superior bodybuilder.
Serge alone looks great. He WAS great. Stand him next to Arnold and his faults become apparent to the critical eye...
And...
the judges agree!
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(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsawesomearms.jpg)
Full and peaked!
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Post some pics comparing the two together performing the same poses.
Arnold just dwarfes him.
Arnold flows, because each bodypart - arms, chest, legs, backs, etc is proportioned. Sergio is all arms. I don't see what the big deal is with this guy really. You don't care what the mags say, but most people do. These editors have been in the industry long enough to make these kind of decisions. Arnold was selected as having the greatest chest of all time! This shouldn't even be up for debate. His arms were just huge with massive peaks. Full AND peaked. The total package.
Take a tall guy, with bigger shoulders, chest, biceps, and FAR superior definition, and I'll show you the superior bodybuilder.
Serge alone looks great. He WAS great. Stand him next to Arnold and his faults become apparent to the critical eye...
And...
the judges agree!
I say I don't care what the magazines say, because I don't regard them as an accurate reflection of the truth. The fact that most people do doesn't impress me. At one point, most people thought the Earth was the centre of the universe.
Arnold does NOT have bigger shoulders- Sergio's dwarf Arnold's. You say that Arnold flows because each body part is proportioned, but as I've mentioned now in two straight posts (now three) that's bollocks.
Here, I'll copy and paste what I wrote earlier.
Definition- fine, Arnold was in better condition. Biceps- we've already been over this, it's a matter of taste. Some people like short, high peaked biceps (Arnold). Others (me) think that long, full biceps (Levrone's, Oliva's) look more powerful and massive.
Quads, no way. Arnold might have Sergio on separation, but this comes back to the conditioning factor. Sergio's quads were considerably bigger than Arnold's, and had way better shape and sweep. Sergio's quads were actually round and curved from the front, way ahead of his peers. Chest, debatable. Arnold has a bigger ribcage, but Sergio has phenomenally (and famously) thick pecs.
No symmetry or balance? Where do I even begin tearing this apart? Firstly, Arnold just looks wrong in the front lat spread. His waist is way too big for his shoulder and back width, not to mention his quad sweep. The result is the classic fridge look- Arnold never looked good in this shot. Shoulders- Arnold has a narrow structure relative to his waist. Sergio isn't the widest guy around, but he can get away with it with a 29" waist. Plus, Sergio's shoulders are actually bigger and better developed. Arnold's bis are too big for his tris, his chest too big for his lats from the front. You call that balance or symmetry?
So then somehow you arrive at the conclusion that Arnold had better 'overall', ok, whatever the hell 'overall' is
Bottom line: Arnold had
- Bis too big for his tris
- Arms too big for his delts
- Chest too big for his delts
- Chest too wide and full for his back- eg, front lat spread
- A wide waist
- Quads too small for his calves
- Quads too small for his upper body
- Quads too big for his hams
- Strange abs- a four back
- Narrow, sloping clavicles relative to his height
- Thick bone structure relative to Sergio
- Lacking quad sweep
- Lacking back width
- Lacking overall width
Time and time again in your post, you keep mentioning Arnold's arms- particularly his bis. This tells me that you stop looking at a bodybuilder's arms and judge them there- specifically, their bis. You have even failed to notice that Sergio has better overall arms.
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I say I don't care what the magazines say, because I don't regard them as an accurate reflection of the truth. The fact that most people do doesn't impress me. At one point, most people thought the Earth was the centre of the universe.
Arnold does NOT have bigger shoulders- Sergio's dwarf Arnold's. You say that Arnold flows because each body part is proportioned, but as I've mentioned now in two straight posts (now three) that's bollocks.
Here, I'll copy and paste what I wrote earlier.
Definition- fine, Arnold was in better condition. Biceps- we've already been over this, it's a matter of taste. Some people like short, high peaked biceps (Arnold). Others (me) think that long, full biceps (Levrone's, Oliva's) look more powerful and massive.
Quads, no way. Arnold might have Sergio on separation, but this comes back to the conditioning factor. Sergio's quads were considerably bigger than Arnold's, and had way better shape and sweep. Sergio's quads were actually round and curved from the front, way ahead of his peers. Chest, debatable. Arnold has a bigger ribcage, but Sergio has phenomenally (and famously) thick pecs.
No symmetry or balance? Where do I even begin tearing this apart? Firstly, Arnold just looks wrong in the front lat spread. His waist is way too big for his shoulder and back width, not to mention his quad sweep. The result is the classic fridge look- Arnold never looked good in this shot. Shoulders- Arnold has a narrow structure relative to his waist. Sergio isn't the widest guy around, but he can get away with it with a 29" waist. Plus, Sergio's shoulders are actually bigger and better developed. Arnold's bis are too big for his tris, his chest too big for his lats from the front. You call that balance or symmetry?
So then somehow you arrive at the conclusion that Arnold had better 'overall', ok, whatever the hell 'overall' is
Bottom line: Arnold had
- Bis too big for his tris
- Arms too big for his delts
- Chest too big for his delts
- Chest too wide and full for his back- eg, front lat spread
- A wide waist
- Quads too small for his calves
- Quads too small for his upper body
- Quads too big for his hams
- Strange abs- a four back
- Narrow, sloping clavicles relative to his height
- Thick bone structure relative to Sergio
- Lacking quad sweep
- Lacking back width
- Lacking overall width
Time and time again in your post, you keep mentioning Arnold's arms- particularly his bis. This tells me that you stop looking at a bodybuilder's arms and judge them there- specifically, their bis. You have even failed to notice that Sergio has better overall arms.
I dont have to say much more really, that says it all!!Good post.
davie
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WOW that is insane!!! Every picture I see with Sergio is breathtaking!!
How old was he in the 85 pic?
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How old was he in the 85 pic?
Somewhere in between 42-44 as far as I know. Ronnie's age or thereabouts.
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I dont have to say much more really, that says it all!!Good post.
davie
Yeah, cheers. Arnold was a fantastic bodybuilder, but he had alot of charisma and is a legend inside and outside the bodybuilding industry. Not only just to newbies, but also to people who have been in it for years.
But comparing him to Sergio, who is probably one of the greatest bodybuilders ever, with far superior genetics, shows that Arnold is not flawless- as we all can often be blinded to assume.
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Can anyone post recent pics of Oliva?
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Post some pics comparing the two together performing the same poses.
Arnold just dwarfes him.
Arnold flows, because each bodypart - arms, chest, legs, backs, etc is proportioned. Sergio is all arms. I don't see what the big deal is with this guy really. You don't care what the mags say, but most people do. These editors have been in the industry long enough to make these kind of decisions. Arnold was selected as having the greatest chest of all time! This shouldn't even be up for debate. His arms were just huge with massive peaks. Full AND peaked. The total package.
Take a tall guy, with bigger shoulders, chest, biceps, and FAR superior definition, and I'll show you the superior bodybuilder.
Serge alone looks great. He WAS great. Stand him next to Arnold and his faults become apparent to the critical eye...
And...
the judges agree!
Ive come to the conclusion you must be the second comming of Ray Charles! Here is sergio still looking huge in his late 50s from the olympia a few years back. Hes still owning Brusnschagger
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I say I don't care what the magazines say, because I don't regard them as an accurate reflection of the truth. The fact that most people do doesn't impress me. At one point, most people thought the Earth was the centre of the universe.
Arnold does NOT have bigger shoulders- Sergio's dwarf Arnold's. You say that Arnold flows because each body part is proportioned, but as I've mentioned now in two straight posts (now three) that's bollocks.
Here, I'll copy and paste what I wrote earlier.
Definition- fine, Arnold was in better condition. Biceps- we've already been over this, it's a matter of taste. Some people like short, high peaked biceps (Arnold). Others (me) think that long, full biceps (Levrone's, Oliva's) look more powerful and massive.
Quads, no way. Arnold might have Sergio on separation, but this comes back to the conditioning factor. Sergio's quads were considerably bigger than Arnold's, and had way better shape and sweep. Sergio's quads were actually round and curved from the front, way ahead of his peers. Chest, debatable. Arnold has a bigger ribcage, but Sergio has phenomenally (and famously) thick pecs.
No symmetry or balance? Where do I even begin tearing this apart? Firstly, Arnold just looks wrong in the front lat spread. His waist is way too big for his shoulder and back width, not to mention his quad sweep. The result is the classic fridge look- Arnold never looked good in this shot. Shoulders- Arnold has a narrow structure relative to his waist. Sergio isn't the widest guy around, but he can get away with it with a 29" waist. Plus, Sergio's shoulders are actually bigger and better developed. Arnold's bis are too big for his tris, his chest too big for his lats from the front. You call that balance or symmetry?
So then somehow you arrive at the conclusion that Arnold had better 'overall', ok, whatever the hell 'overall' is
Bottom line: Arnold had
- Bis too big for his tris
- Arms too big for his delts
- Chest too big for his delts
- Chest too wide and full for his back- eg, front lat spread
- A wide waist
- Quads too small for his calves
- Quads too small for his upper body
- Quads too big for his hams
- Strange abs- a four back
- Narrow, sloping clavicles relative to his height
- Thick bone structure relative to Sergio
- Lacking quad sweep
- Lacking back width
- Lacking overall width
Time and time again in your post, you keep mentioning Arnold's arms- particularly his bis. This tells me that you stop looking at a bodybuilder's arms and judge them there- specifically, their bis. You have even failed to notice that Sergio has better overall arms.
Yeah, your right! Arnold was all flaws, and was a terrible bodybuilder. No idea how he won a contest ::)
Gayest post in history. Sergio was never ripped. Arnold was just as developed. Maybe if Sergio was actually in shape he could have won more contests. You can whine cry and debate all you want. Bodybuilding is subjective. Some people feel Arnold was better. Some Sergio. Same reason some poeple like Oranges and some like Apples. The fact is Arnold won many more contests then Sergio did. You can make any excuse you like. Wont change shit. Thats a fact :-*
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Yeah, your right! Arnold was all flaws, and was a terrible bodybuilder. No idea how he won a contest ::)
Gayest post in history. Sergio was never ripped. Arnold was just as good but in better condition. End of story.
Uh-huh. I guess you must have missed the part where I said that Arnold was a fantastic bodybuilder. My post is clearly a comparison to Sergio. And, compared with Sergio, Arnold had those flaws.
Monster argument supporting your claim. ::)
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Good thing I dont give a flying f**k what you think. I was replying to the post I quoted. Nothing else.
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Good thing I dont give a flying f**k what you think. I was replying to the post I quoted. Nothing else.
The feeling's mutual.
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How come every post that has an interesting debate somehow turns into "i hate u" ........ " no i hate u."
I think its fine to have argument within the context of the topic, but no-one comes out looking good in a "ur a dick" type argument done over trhe internet.
davie
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(http://members.cox.net/scribeokc/graphics/crying_baby.jpg)
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Ummm Arnie won many more contests than Sergio? Many more?
1965 AAU Jr. Mr. America (Most Muscular)
1965 AAU Mr. America (Most Muscular)
1966 AAU Jr. Mr. America
1966 AAU Jr. Mr. America (Most Muscular)
1966 AAU Mr. America (Most Muscular)
1966 IFBB Mr. World
1967 IFBB Mr. Universe
1967 IFBB Mr. Olympia
1968 IFBB Mr. Olympia
1969 IFBB Mr. Olympia
1973 IFBB Pro Mr. International
1974 WBBG Mr. International
1975 WBBG Mr. Olympus
1976 WBBG Mr. Olympus
1977 WABBA Pro World Championships
1978 WBBG Mr. Olympus
1980 WABBA Pro World Cup
1980 WABBA Pro World Championships
1981 WABBA Pro World Cup
Sergio was never ripped?
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Ummm Arnie won many more contests than Sergio? Many more?
1965 AAU Jr. Mr. America (Most Muscular)
1965 AAU Mr. America (Most Muscular)
1966 AAU Jr. Mr. America
1966 AAU Jr. Mr. America (Most Muscular)
1966 AAU Mr. America (Most Muscular)
1966 IFBB Mr. World
1967 IFBB Mr. Universe
1967 IFBB Mr. Olympia
1968 IFBB Mr. Olympia
1969 IFBB Mr. Olympia
1973 IFBB Pro Mr. International
1974 WBBG Mr. International
1975 WBBG Mr. Olympus
1976 WBBG Mr. Olympus
1977 WABBA Pro World Championships
1978 WBBG Mr. Olympus
1980 WABBA Pro World Cup
1980 WABBA Pro World Championships
1981 WABBA Pro World Cup
Sergio was never ripped?
I was referring to contests that mattered. Sergio pretty much had no competition besides Arnold. Sergio might have a 29 inch waist and the best genetics known to man! Ha Had to face the entire world being against him. Had to cure cancer and not train his arms for a year, because he was so great they grew when he farted. But, Arnold has 6 Olympias. Nuff said.
(http://www.legendaryfitness.com/asCalf2.jpg)
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I was referring to contests that mattered. Sergio pretty much had no competition besides Arnold. Sergio might have a 29 inch waist and the best genetics known to man! Ha Had to face the entire world being against him. Had to cure cancer and not train his arms for a year, because he was so great they grew when he farted. But, Arnold has 6 Olympias. Nuff said.
(http://www.legendaryfitness.com/asCalf2.jpg)
What was wrong with sergio thats topped him training his arms for a year??
davie
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logical? you are making some awesome posts in this thread! I agree with you 100%!
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What was wrong with sergio thats topped him training his arms for a year??
davie
It was a joke.
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Pot calling the kettle black ain't helpin, punk. Your hostile posts here and elsewhere speak volumes about your predilection for "handsome white BBs".. hahahaahhaahha
You consider Yates handsome? ???
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It was a joke.
What was? Arnold being a better BBer than Sergio? I agree he never was or will be ;D
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You have a right to think that. A great argument could be mad to back that claim up. I was scoffing at the notion that Arnold pretty much sucked, and had no reason to be on stage with Sergio.
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Bottom line: Arnold had
- Bis too big for his tris
- Arms too big for his delts
- Chest too big for his delts
- Chest too wide and full for his back- eg, front lat spread
- A wide waist
- Quads too small for his calves
- Quads too small for his upper body
- Quads too big for his hams
- Strange abs- a four back
- Narrow, sloping clavicles relative to his height
- Thick bone structure relative to Sergio
- Lacking quad sweep
- Lacking back width
- Lacking overall width
I agree with everything you said. When I tell people on other boards that Arnold had flaws, they usually think I'm crazy. I would also add to your list:
- Forearms too small for his upper arms.
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Bodybuilders/Arnold11.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Bodybuilders/Arnold12.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Bodybuilders/Arnold13.jpg)
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I agree with everything you said. When I tell people on other boards that Arnold had flaws, they usually think I'm crazy. I would also add to your list:
- Forearms too small for his upper arms.
Why did you pick a bunch of bad pictures of Arnold to make your point? Check out Sergio's DOMINANT genetics. I will post some bad pictures to back up my claim also! Sergio was huge no doubnt. But,he also had a tiny head. Makes him look way bigger then he was. When he stood next to Arnold it was apparent he was much less impressive then when he stood alone.
I do not dispute the fact Arnold had flaws.So didnt Sergio. Sergio had the tiny waist. At his best Arnold was better then Sergio. Could Sergio have been better then Arnold? Sure. But, he never got in shape so it does not matter.
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so12.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so34.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so93.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so121.jpg)
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I wonder if having a small melon is a genetic gift or just a cruel joke played by God?
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I guess if you are a freaky bodybuilder then it is a gift.
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Why did you pick a bunch of bad pictures of Arnold to make your point?
what are you talking about? I could understand maybe the last pic is a bad shot, but the other 2 pics are straight on. By the way, Sergio's arms still look better in the shots you posted.
Here are "good" pics of Arnold's mediocre forearms.
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/gallery/musclegallery1/m38.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/gallery/musclegallery1/m29.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/gallery/musclegallery2/m407.jpg)
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what are you talking about? I could understand maybe the last pic is a bad shot, but the other 2 pics are straight on. By the way, Sergio's arms still look better in the shots you posted.
Here are "good" pics of Arnold's mediocre forearms.
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/gallery/musclegallery1/m38.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/gallery/musclegallery1/m29.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/gallery/musclegallery2/m407.jpg)
That's true, Sergio had massive forearms compared with Arnold at his best.
Body88 said he was replying to some post which said that Arnold was hopeless and didn't deserve to stand next to Sergio on stage.
Well, that clearly wasn't one of my posts, so he's obviously not replying to me.
Arnold had flaws. Sergio had flaws. Arnold had more flaws than Sergio, and didn't make up for them in comparison. Sergio, hence, was the better bodybuilder.
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Why did you pick a bunch of bad pictures of Arnold to make your point? Check out Sergio's DOMINANT genetics. I will post some bad pictures to back up my claim also! Sergio was huge no doubnt. But,he also had a tiny head. Makes him look way bigger then he was. When he stood next to Arnold it was apparent he was much less impressive then when he stood alone.
I do not dispute the fact Arnold had flaws.So didnt Sergio. Sergio had the tiny waist. At his best Arnold was better then Sergio. Could Sergio have been better then Arnold? Sure. But, he never got in shape so it does not matter.
They keep talking about Sergio's "genetics" because he's black. So you KNOW he must have better genetics than Arnold, because we all know black guys have superior genetics for bodybuilding right? ;D
This despite the fact that he looks like shit in the pics you posted. Doesn't look special at all. I see no reason to think he has better genetics than Arnold.
FACT IS:
Arnold always displayed superior conditioning(genetic propensity to work harder).
Arnold always had a bigger chest(genetic). This is the consensus of the VAST majority.
Arnold had biceps that were full and peaked(genetic). Sergio's were just full...
thus, Arnold had better biceps.
Arnold was taller(genetic), making him more imposing and impressive overall.
Quads are up for debate. Personally, I think Arnolds are superior because his conditioning was on.
Sergio's 'powerlifter' thighs aren't impressive.
Sergio was a shorter man with relatively big arms, unusually small waste, consistently sup-par conditioning come contest time, and average everything else.
These are the facts...
AND
THE JUDGES AGREE WITH ME!
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Demonstrated resentment of black BBs including Coleman & Oliva. Real issues with black guys who threaten to beat his white prizes Yates, Schwarzenegger & Priest. hahaahahahahah
Sergio is latino.......not black.
He may have black blood in him, but he's culturally hispanic.
Learn the difference, bro.
DIV
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They keep talking about Sergio's "genetics" because he's black. So you KNOW he must have better genetics than Arnold, because we all know black guys have superior genetics for bodybuilding right? ;D
This despite the fact that he looks like shit in the pics you posted. Doesn't look special at all. I see no reason to think he has better genetics than Arnold.
FACT IS:
Arnold always displayed superior conditioning(genetic propensity to work harder).
Arnold always had a bigger chest(genetic). This is the consensus of the VAST majority.
Arnold had biceps that were full and peaked(genetic). Sergio's were just full...
thus, Arnold had better biceps.
Arnold was taller(genetic), making him more imposing and impressive overall.
Quads are up for debate. Personally, I think Arnolds are superior because his conditioning was on.
Sergio's 'powerlifter' thighs aren't impressive.
Sergio was a shorter man with relatively big arms, unusually small waste, consistently sup-par conditioning come contest time, and average everything else.
These are the facts...
AND
THE JUDGES AGREE WITH ME!
Yes, Sergio wasn't black. And no, we're not talking about his better genetics because he was dark- a quick look at his physique should tell you that he has a better frame for bodybuilding.
Yes, Arnold always displayed better conditioning. However, does this better work ethic indicate a genetic feature? Hell no, a personality trait such as this isn't genetically informed, it's a socially produced feature. I'm not doubting this for a second- that Arnold had a better work ethic and conditioning- however it would be incorrect to assume that that was down to genetics.
Arnold had a bigger chest, and a bigger rib cage- yes, that's genetic. Never disputed that. I wouldn't contend that Arnold had a better chest. However, I would also mention that there was absolutely nothing wrong with Sergio's.
Arnold's biceps were not full. They were peaked. Of course we're talking relative to Sergio, not relative to someone like Franco Columbu. This is a matter of taste- again.
Quads- this comes back to conditioning, so it's hard to double cross Sergio here. You could go through the whole body and pick the body parts apart for detail- however it comes under the conditioning section. Sergio had better shaped thighs, more massive and balanced compared to his upper body. Arnold's were more detailed. However, so are Ethiopian starving adult's. Don't forget about hamstrings- Arnold's were non-existant compared to Sergio.
Everything else, Sergio had Arnold on.
I notice that you keep returning to chest, biceps and a half-hearted examination of the thighs. This does not equal a better physique in a bodybuilding contest. It might for the chicks out there- and if you're bodybuilding for the chicks and are developing your money muslces, well fine- good for you. But bodybuilding is about more than chest and biceps.
And Arnold himself doesn't agree with you- he has commented that Sergio deservedto beat him that day (1972).
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And Arnold himself doesn't agree with you- he has commented that Sergio deservedto beat him that day (1972).
Sergio claimed this I never read if Arnold claimed this himself , did you read Arnold saying this and if so where?
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Sergio claimed this I never read if Arnold claimed this himself , did you read Arnold saying this and if so where?
I thought I read a quote from a magazine or a book or interview or something on this board with Arnold saying this?
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I thought I read a quote from a magazine or a book or interview or something on this board with Arnold saying this?
In an interview Sergio claimed Arnold admitted to him that Sergio beat him in 72 , but I've haven't been able to confirm this .
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In an interview Sergio claimed Arnold admitted to him that Sergio beat him in 72 , but I've haven't been able to confirm this .
Well I wouldn't have claimed this if I didn't believe that Arnold had said it- I honestly thuoght it was posted here on the boards, I'll try and look for it.
Hasn't Arnold said that he thinks that Sergio is the greatest bodybuilder ever? ???
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Well I wouldn't have claimed this if I didn't believe that Arnold had said it- I honestly thuoght it was posted here on the boards, I'll try and look for it.
Hasn't Arnold said that he thinks that Sergio is the greatest bodybuilder ever? ???
He said Flex was !
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He said Flex was !
Are you telling me I'm wrong about this too? ???
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Are you telling me I'm wrong about this too? ???
I'm telling you Arnold said this about Flex Wheeler especially after his 1993 Arnold Classic win but at the time they competed he said Sergio was the best.
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I'm telling you Arnold said this about Flex Wheeler especially after his 1993 Arnold Classic win but at the time they competed he said Sergio was the best.
Oh ok. Well the net effect is still the same then- he stated that he thought Sergio was better than him.
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Sergio isn't black?
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Sergio isn't black?
he is Cuban.
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he is Cuban.
That's his nationality/culture.
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That's his nationality/culture.
yeah, no kidding. There are dark-skinned hispanics.
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He has plenty of African blood.
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what happened to his elbows? they look twice the size of a human's.
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'African' isn't a genetic group.
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'African' isn't a genetic group.
Oh please, you know what I'm talking about.
Negro blood. Serge is black.
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Oh please, you know what I'm talking about.
Negro blood. Serge is black.
Serge is, but Sergio isn't.
You're not either white or black.
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Serge is, but Sergio isn't.
You're not either white or black.
That's semantics.
Most people would call him a black guy.
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That's semantics.
Most people would call him a black guy.
So what? Just because most people think that, does that make it true?
Most people thought the Earth was at the centre of the universe, for quite some time.
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So what? Just because most people think that, does that make it true?
Most people thought the Earth was at the centre of the universe, for quite some time.
Yes, he's black. ::)
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Yes, he's black. ::)
No, he's not ::)
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No, he's not ::)
He's not? What is he?
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He's not? What is he?
He is not black.
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Arnold is god.
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Arnold is god.
Yeah, probably.
But Sergio was a better bodybuilder ;D
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Yeah, probably.
But Sergio was a better bodybuilder ;D
Sergio and Arnold faced each other four times
1969 Mr Olympia - Sergio 1st - Arnold 2nd
1970 Mr World - Arnold 1st - Sergio 2nd
1970 Mr Olympia - Arnold 1st - Sergio 2nd
1972 Mr Olympia - Arnold 1 st - Sergio 2nd
* 1969 Sergio beat Arnold in a 4-3 win it was a close contest *
Arnold beat Sergio 3 out of 4 times Arnold was a better bodybuilder. ;)
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That's semantics.
Most people would call him a black guy.
You obviously haven't talked to Sergio.
The guy is Hispanic or Latino if you prefer.
He speaks spanish and that's his culture.
You think he identifies with guys like Flex, Cormier or Shawn Ray?
Hell no......
You have no clue what ethnicity means........it's not a skin color issue.
DIV
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I'm telling you Arnold said this about Flex Wheeler especially after his 1993 Arnold Classic win but at the time they competed he said Sergio was the best.
I'm pretty sure it was sometime around 1980 where Arnold was quoted as saying that Sergio was the greatest ever. Arnold, Dorian & Ronnie came close in '74, '93 & '99 respectively but I still think Arnold's words ring true 26 years later. The link below also states Arnold said it, but it dosn't give a source.
http://www.bodybuilders.com/sergio.htm (http://www.bodybuilders.com/sergio.htm)
SERGIO!!!!
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You obviously haven't talked to Sergio.
The guy is Hispanic or Latino if you prefer.
He speaks spanish and that's his culture.
You think he identifies with guys like Flex, Cormier or Shawn Ray?
Hell no......
You have no clue what ethnicity means........it's not a skin color issue.
DIV
hahaha. I have no clue? I'm not talking about his ethnicity - I'm talking about his race/genetics. People are quick to say any black guy is blessed genetically, even when a white bodybuilder has a superior build. The white guys are always labeled hard trainers, black bodybuilders are stereotyped as being lazy trainers, but genetically gifted.
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hahaha. I have no clue? I'm not talking about his ethnicity - I'm talking about his race/genetics. People are quick to say any black guy is blessed genetically, even when a white bodybuilder has a superior build. The white guys are always labeled hard trainers, black bodybuilders are stereotyped as being lazy trainers, but genetically gifted.
Yeah, Ronnie Coleman is really a lazy trainer ::)
You're talking out of your ass- I haven't said anything like that in this thread. Sergio could be Chinese for all I care, he still had better bodybuilding genetics.
And ND, as usual of course, just because Arnold beat him in contentious contests, doesn't mean that he was the better bodybuilder.
It means he was the better competitor. ::)
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Yeah, Ronnie Coleman is really a lazy trainer ::)
You're talking out of your ass- I haven't said anything like that in this thread. Sergio could be Chinese for all I care, he still had better bodybuilding genetics.
And ND, as usual of course, just because Arnold beat him in contentious contests, doesn't mean that he was the better bodybuilder.
It means he was the better competitor. ::)
Just because Sergio had a better structure doesn't mean he was a better bodybuilder ;)
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Just because Sergio had a better structure doesn't mean he was a better bodybuilder ;)
That's not what I said, either. ::)
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Just because Sergio had a better structure doesn't mean he was a better bodybuilder
you are isolating one variable. Sergio had better structure, muscle shape and proportion than Arnold.
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you are isolating one variable. Sergio had better structure, muscle shape and proportion than Arnold.
Arnold had better development and conditioning with equal size as well being a better poser ! you're isolating only the variables that favor Sergio !
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Arnold had better development and conditioning with equal size as well being a better poser ! you're isolating only the variables that favor Sergio !
Arnold had better 'development'? Better development where, in his chest? Yeah, fine- we've all acknowledged that. Nowhere else though.
Yes, we've also conceded he had better conditioning, youi would be a lunatic not to. And yes, he was a better poser. We've said all this, and more.
However, does better posing make him a better bodybuilder or a better competitor? Clearly itdoesn't influence his physique as a whole, merely the displaying of it. It doesn't make him a better bodybuilder, only a better contestant, that's why posing is irrelevant to this discussion. ::)
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Arnold had better 'development'? Better development where, in his chest? Yeah, fine- we've all acknowledged that. Nowhere else though.
Yes, we've also conceded he had better conditioning, youi would be a lunatic not to. And yes, he was a better poser. We've said all this, and more.
However, does better posing make him a better bodybuilder or a better competitor? Clearly itdoesn't influence his physique as a whole, merely the displaying of it. It doesn't make him a better bodybuilder, only a better contestant, that's why posing is irrelevant to this discussion. ::)
Chest yes
Back - Arnold had a better developed back ! Sergio had great sweep to his lats and his back was thick but it lacked Arnold's development
abdominals - Arnold Sergio had a smaller waist but his abs were almost nonexistant
Quads - Sergio's had a better shape but Arnold's have better detail and development especially in the rectus femoris
Calves - Arnold - Sergio had thick calves but again Arnold's were better , better defined and developed
Sergio had a more overall pleasing shape but that doesn't trump equal size and better conditioning.
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Chest yes
Back - Arnold had a better developed back ! Sergio had great sweep to his lats and his back was thick but it lacked Arnold's development
abdominals - Arnold Sergio had a smaller waist but his abs were almost nonexistant
Quads - Sergio's had a better shape but Arnold's have better detail and development especially in the rectus femoris
Calves - Arnold - Sergio had thick calves but again Arnold's were better , better defined and developed
Sergio had a more overall pleasing shape but that doesn't trump equal size and better conditioning.
lol. "abs were almost nonexistant". lol. that right there takes away about everything you "claim" to know about bodybuilding. what a joke.
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lol. "abs were almost nonexistant". lol. that right there takes away about everything you "claim" to know about bodybuilding. what a joke.
Please show me a picture of a 240 pound Sergio with well defined abs, intercostales and serattus please do .
Here is a 240 pound Arnold with well defined abdominals , intercotals and a very sharp serattus ;)
and the pics you posted are Sergio at 220 pounds and the pic in 84? lol his midection is lacking.
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lol. "abs were almost nonexistant". lol. that right there takes away about everything you "claim" to know about bodybuilding. what a joke.
You are the joke. Sergio's abs sucked. He looks to weigh about 210 in the first pic. The last picture you posted is hilarious. His abs look like total shit.
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You are the joke. Sergios abs sucked. He looks to weigh about 210 in the first pic. The last picture you posted is halarious. His abs look like total shit.
I know he posts a pic from 84 when Sergio was way off and thats supposed to hightlight his great ab development. ???
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Amazing how bad he looks in that last example. Shadow of his former self.
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Arnold is god. ;D
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Yes, Arnold is God, we've established that. But that's not the argument ;D
ND, you throw the word development around without defining it. Sergio had great sweep to his lats and was very thick, you say. But somehow it lacked Arnold's development. Please define this term. Likewise with calves etc.
Sorry, but everything you've posted so far that criticises Sergio comes under the umbrella group of Sergio. Yes, Sergio had crappy abs at his high bodyweight. Yes, his quads lacked detail compared to Arnold. Yes, his calves lacked detail to Arnold.
However, this was as a result from having poor conditioning, not from somehow not having the muscle there, or the shape.
You can't penalise him twice, once for saying he has poor overall conditioning and definition, and once for then also saying his quads lacked definition and conditoning.
Sergio lacked conditioning compared to Arnold. Arnold's chest was also better. Some prefer Arnold's bis.
That's about it.
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Can't we get more comparison picks up?
With the two on stage I mean.
"Logical" keeps making straw man arguments.
The fact is Arnold had full AND peaked biceps (Sergio was just full), superior chest (overwhelming majority of people agree), better proportion, better definition. Taken all together, he was superior.
Sergio was a guy with big arms, unusually small waste, and average everything else. Oh, and powerlifter thighs. ;D
Chest, biceps, and shoulders are key bodyparts when it comes to presenting an Olympian "alpha" physique. Arnold exudes this quality. His stage presence was tremendous. He was tall, ripped, and balanced. (Did Sergio even diet?) Olympia grade-A material. Next to Sergio he looked positively giant. I think you could make a better argument for Serge Nubret, but I prefer Arnold. Nubret was more balanced. He was the Shawn Ray of his time. Serge is comparable to offseason Lee Priest or Capriese Murray.
It's amazing, because people were saying Cutler won in 01 because Ronnie's conditioning is off. Yet, Sergio gets a pass for terrible conditioning because he's a "legend" in Logic's mind hahahahaha.
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That's semantics.
Most people would call him a black guy.
Sergio, is of a latino of African descent. There you have it. In America he would be called "the black guy".
And no, Arnold is not a god. God's do not admit that one has superior genetics as Arnold did with Flex Wheeler. Yet Flex is neither a god. The Ideal bodybuilding God has not been found yet.
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Sergio, is of a latino of African descent. There you have it. In America he would be called "the black guy".
And no, Arnold is not a god. God's do not admit that one has superior genetics as Arnold did with Flex Wheeler. Yet Flex is neither a god. The Ideal bodybuilding God has not been found yet.
I agree with the first statement. That's what I've been saying forever.
I disagree with the second statement. Arnold is god because of all he accomplished in life. Not just bodybuilding alone. It's hyperbole sure, but whatever lol.
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Yes, Arnold is God, we've established that. But that's not the argument ;D
ND, you throw the word development around without defining it. Sergio had great sweep to his lats and was very thick, you say. But somehow it lacked Arnold's development. Please define this term. Likewise with calves etc.
Sorry, but everything you've posted so far that criticises Sergio comes under the umbrella group of Sergio. Yes, Sergio had crappy abs at his high bodyweight. Yes, his quads lacked detail compared to Arnold. Yes, his calves lacked detail to Arnold.
However, this was as a result from having poor conditioning, not from somehow not having the muscle there, or the shape.
You can't penalise him twice, once for saying he has poor overall conditioning and definition, and once for then also saying his quads lacked definition and conditoning.
Sergio lacked conditioning compared to Arnold. Arnold's chest was also better. Some prefer Arnold's bis.
That's about it.
Okay you want a definition?
Arnold's clearly has better separation in his traps when viewed from the back , he shows much clearer definition of the teres major & minor and the infraspinatus as with the calves Arnold's show better development & separation of the gastrocnemius inner & outer heads
Now poor conditioning isn't going to solve everyones problems , you think if Sergio dieted down some more the development of his rectus femoris will magically appear? Sergio never really showed great upper quad separation this is a result of developing the muscle in the first place and then having the right conditioning to highlight it , the conditioning would help with muscles that are visable already like his seratus and his abdominals which were developed when he was lighter , but Sergio couldn't replicate his conditioning at 220 pounds at 240 pounds and Arnold's conditioning actually improved the bigger he got.
Sergio looked better with size and he would have killed Arnold with size & great conditioning but that wasn't the case , Sergio had fantastic proportions and balance which many have matched to this day while retaining an amazingly small waist , Sergio was responsible for the way he showed up on contest day , he had to find a balance between size and conditioning and he did in 1972 but he still lost instead of letting that loss get to him ( if it was legit or not ) he should have drove himself to the end of the Earth to create a package that the judges just couldn't deny , Ronnie almost lost in 2001 and 2002 and he was talking a lot of heat and he did what he had to silence everyone in 2003 .
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Logical" keeps making straw man arguments.
do you even know what a strawman argument is?
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Okay you want a definition?
Arnold's clearly has better separation in his traps when viewed from the back , he shows much clearer definition of the teres major & minor and the infraspinatus as with the calves Arnold's show better development & separation of the gastrocnemius inner & outer heads
Now poor conditioning isn't going to solve everyones problems , you think if Sergio dieted down some more the development of his rectus femoris will magically appear? Sergio never really showed great upper quad separation this is a result of developing the muscle in the first place and then having the right conditioning to highlight it , the conditioning would help with muscles that are visable already like his seratus and his abdominals which were developed when he was lighter , but Sergio couldn't replicate his conditioning at 220 pounds at 240 pounds and Arnold's conditioning actually improved the bigger he got.
Sergio looked better with size and he would have killed Arnold with size & great conditioning but that wasn't the case , Sergio had fantastic proportions and balance which many have matched to this day while retaining an amazingly small waist , Sergio was responsible for the way he showed up on contest day , he had to find a balance between size and conditioning and he did in 1972 but he still lost instead of letting that loss get to him ( if it was legit or not ) he should have drove himself to the end of the Earth to create a package that the judges just couldn't deny , Ronnie almost lost in 2001 and 2002 and he was talking a lot of heat and he did what he had to silence everyone in 2003 .
but Sergio had big arms! LMAO. "Logical" is finished.
Sergio didn't even have better size. Dieted down like Arnold how big do you think he would be?
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Sergio was a guy with big arms, unusually small waste, and average everything else. Oh, and powerlifter thighs. ;D
Average everything else ??? Are we talking about the same Sergio Oliva here ?.
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so159.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so152.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so26.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so155.jpg)
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but Sergio had big arms! LMAO. "Logical" is finished.
Sergio didn't even have better size. Dieted down like Arnold how big do you think he would be?
Arnold was always way more ripped then THE MYTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=111479.0;attach=127633;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=111479.0;attach=127636;image)
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Average everything else ??? Are we talking about the same Sergio Oliva here ?.
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so159.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so152.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so26.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so155.jpg)
Smoother than a Johnny Jackson guest posing session. Not impressive.
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Arnold was always way more ripped then THE MYTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=111479.0;attach=127633;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=111479.0;attach=127636;image)
Exactly. Arnold was the whole package. Some people are easily impressed by big arms and a small waste. As if that's all it takes. Arnold knew what it takes to be the best and brought it contest time.
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I know he posts a pic from 84 when Sergio was way off and thats supposed to hightlight his great ab development. ???
Looks like ND and his ass kissing click is taking over the thread. Pics are hard to find of Sergio. If you have, then why don't you post them.
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Average everything else ??? Are we talking about the same Sergio Oliva here ?.
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so159.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so152.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so26.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so155.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsawesomeback.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsmassivechest.jpg)
("Logical" think Sergio had a better chest. Tells you what we're dealing with.)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsawesomearms.jpg)
DOMINATION!
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Looks like ND and his ass kissing click is taking over the thread. Pics are hard to find of Sergio. If you have, then why don't you post them.
Yes, the Arnold supporters have taken over!
As if he needs our help.
8 Time MR. O!
Pics of Sergio are hard to find because Arnold was more impressive and had bigger more defined muscles. But I welcome you to post the two onstage competing against each other. Sergio is dwarfed!
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Yes, Arnold is God, we've established that. But that's not the argument ;D
ND, you throw the word development around without defining it. Sergio had great sweep to his lats and was very thick, you say. But somehow it lacked Arnold's development. Please define this term. Likewise with calves etc.
Sorry, but everything you've posted so far that criticises Sergio comes under the umbrella group of Sergio. Yes, Sergio had crappy abs at his high bodyweight. Yes, his quads lacked detail compared to Arnold. Yes, his calves lacked detail to Arnold.
However, this was as a result from having poor conditioning, not from somehow not having the muscle there, or the shape.
You can't penalise him twice, once for saying he has poor overall conditioning and definition, and once for then also saying his quads lacked definition and conditoning.
Sergio lacked conditioning compared to Arnold. Arnold's chest was also better. Some prefer Arnold's bis.
That's about it.
Explain? ND doesn't have to explain. He knows everything. lol. now you know why so many people are getting so irritated of this guy. He swears he knows everything and in reality he knows little. Now I know why people warned me to don't get into a thread war with this guy. He claims to be an expert. Yeah, great expert. ::) :-X
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The experts said Arnold was better and awarded him the Mr. Olympia
title.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsawesomearms.jpg)
DOMINATION!!!!!!
-
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so152.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsmostmuscular.jpg?t=1166413682)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so159.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsawesomeback.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=111479.0;attach=125575;image)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/index.jpg)
THE MYTH DISPELLED!
-
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so152.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsmostmuscular.jpg?t=1166413682)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so159.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsawesomeback.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=111479.0;attach=125575;image)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/index.jpg)
THE MYTH DISPELLED!
These pics of Arnold are fantastic if you want to prove that these two greats were as good as each other. These do nothing to prove that Arnold is WAY more impressive than Sergio. They match each other shot for shot.
SERGIO!!!!
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hahahahahahahahahaah
Arnold is obviously more massive and defined.
He's on another level.
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THE MYTH DISPELLED!
sure ::)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/gallery/musclegallery3/ga122.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/SergioOliva61.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Bodybuilders/Arnold18.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/SergioOliva2.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Bodybuilders/h54h5h4h54.jpg)
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sure ::)
Good work, you found 3 of the 10 good pictures of Sergio.TAKE A LOOK AT THIS GENETIC GOD!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Oliva07.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so15.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so127.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Oliva06.jpg)
Sergio never got this ripped. Sergio never could touch this.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/index.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsmostmuscular.jpg?t=1166413682)
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Good work, you found 3 of the 10 good pictures of Sergio.TAKE A LOOK AT THIS GENETIC GOD!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Oliva07.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so15.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so127.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Oliva06.jpg)
damn, those shots prove he is blessed by the genetic gods. Any pics of Arnold at that age to compare?
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Okay you want a definition?
Arnold's clearly has better separation in his traps when viewed from the back , he shows much clearer definition of the teres major & minor and the infraspinatus as with the calves Arnold's show better development & separation of the gastrocnemius inner & outer heads
Now poor conditioning isn't going to solve everyones problems , you think if Sergio dieted down some more the development of his rectus femoris will magically appear? Sergio never really showed great upper quad separation this is a result of developing the muscle in the first place and then having the right conditioning to highlight it , the conditioning would help with muscles that are visable already like his seratus and his abdominals which were developed when he was lighter , but Sergio couldn't replicate his conditioning at 220 pounds at 240 pounds and Arnold's conditioning actually improved the bigger he got.
Sergio looked better with size and he would have killed Arnold with size & great conditioning but that wasn't the case , Sergio had fantastic proportions and balance which many have matched to this day while retaining an amazingly small waist , Sergio was responsible for the way he showed up on contest day , he had to find a balance between size and conditioning and he did in 1972 but he still lost instead of letting that loss get to him ( if it was legit or not ) he should have drove himself to the end of the Earth to create a package that the judges just couldn't deny , Ronnie almost lost in 2001 and 2002 and he was talking a lot of heat and he did what he had to silence everyone in 2003 .
This all comes down to better conditioning. Unless you're a freak-mutant, we all have the same muscles distributed over the body- you don't create new muscles as you get bigger. If you can't see a muscle, it's because you aren't conditioned or ripped enough to show it. You don't need to have ever visited a gym to show ripped quads with all four heads or striated and separated pecs.
No one's making excuses for Sergio's shape- that's a straw man. Sergio's conditioning was rubbish compared to Arnold, end of story. However, conditioning and superior pectorals, plus money-biceps does not equal an olympia physique when the guy standing next to him is almost flawless. Sergio was better balanced and proportioned than Arnold- it's pretty obvious really, for the same reason that Cormier and Ray were better balanced than Wheeler. Arnold's chest was too good for a number of other bodyparts- eg, his shoulders- whereas Sergio's was in proportion with the development of the rest of his physique.
I've listed Arnold's flaws earlier in this thread. No one has argued against them, so I take that it's undisputed. Sergio did not have as many flaws as Arnold- most of his are down to conditioning. That's all.
Seriously, I've not said anywhere that Arnold had a shitty physique. Arnold was awesome, but this is a comparitive debate. I've merely pointed out his flaws, as flaws are as important as what you do have when making a comparison.
To say that Sergio was a guy only with arms as realkarateblackbelt is just boggles the mind- it really detracts from the overall credibility of his posts.
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Good work, you found 3 of the 10 good pictures of Sergio.TAKE A LOOK AT THIS GENETIC GOD!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Oliva07.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so15.jpg)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so127.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Oliva06.jpg)
Sergio never got this ripped. Sergio never could touch this.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/index.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsmostmuscular.jpg?t=1166413682)
A minute ago you were whinging that someone had dared to dig up a few sub-par pictures of Arnold.
Monster consistancy.
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(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsawesomeback.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsmassivechest.jpg)
("Logical" think Sergio had a better chest. Tells you what we're dealing with.)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsawesomearms.jpg)
DOMINATION!
I never said that- I said it was contentious.
You think Sergio was only arms. Tells you what I'm trying to deal with ::)
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damn, those shots prove he is blessed by the genetic gods. Any pics of Arnold at that age to compare?
Yeah Sergio looked great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Check out them smooth powerlifter quads. Biceps with zero shape and arms much to large for his physique!!! Top it off with sub par condition and you can see why he lost to Arnold. Do you think having a head that small is the reason he look so gigantic?
Again, Sergio could never touch this.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/index.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsmostmuscular.jpg?t=1166413682)
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Yeah Sergio looked great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Check out them smooth powerlifter quads. Biceps with zero shape and arms much to large for his physique!!! Top it off with sub par condition and you can see why he lost to Arnold. Do you think having a head that small is the reason he look so gigantic?
Again, Sergio could never touch this.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/index.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsmostmuscular.jpg?t=1166413682)
No, Arnold looks fantastic in the front double bi at his best, and probably better than Sergio, although Sergio has much better quad sweep, he also has a long torso that detracts- a la Lee Priest.
There are a couple of other mandatories though. ::)
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A minute ago you were whinging that someone had dared to dig up a few sub-par pictures of Arnold.
Monster consistancy.
I did this because neo posted picture from 81 against some of Sergio in his best form ::)
Monster paying attention
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Ripped. Arnold never had a front latspread like this. Never had shoulders and arms like this. Was Arnold's back this good? Close but I don't think so.
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Again, Sergio could never touch this.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/index.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsmostmuscular.jpg?t=1166413682)
wow, front double biceps and most muscular. Why am I not surprised? ::)
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anyone notice how arnold's calves look like implants? ???
They're unusually large for the rest of him, especially compared to his puny quads/hams.
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more good pics of Sergio. The guy looked great from every angle.
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/SergioOliva28.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/SergioOliva6.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/SergioOliva8.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/so49.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/SergioOliva9.jpg)
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I think Arnold's calves are outstanding- it's just his quads and hams which are lacking. Of course, Sergio had phenomenal calves too.
But yeah, Arnold does look fantastic in that one pose- but that's it, it's one pose. Sergio is better from the back, he has a better front lat spread and a more intimidating most muscular. I guess you'd haev to give the ab-thigh to Arnold by virtue of Sergio's crappy abs, but then Arnold wouldn't have too much taper in this shot. We'll never know the side-tri, unless someone posts some pics.
In that first pic posted by NeoSeminole, it's actually alot closer in the front double bi.
All comes down to personal preference.
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I guess you'd haev to give the ab-thigh to Arnold by virtue of Sergio's crappy abs, but then Arnold wouldn't have too much taper in this shot.
hell no, this is the 1 pose Arnold actually looked like shit in. How many abs-and-thighs shots have you seen of him? I rest my case.
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Bodybuilders/Arnold18.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/Oliva0033.jpg)
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hell no, this is the 1 pose Arnold actually looked like shit in. How many abs-and-thighs shots have you seen of him? I rest my case.
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Bodybuilders/Arnold18.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/Oliva0033.jpg)
Well I think Arnold looked mediocre in the front-lat-spread. I guess if Sergio knew how to crunch his abs down and not make his torso appear so long- but look at the taper he has compared with Arnold!
We also don't see Arnold too much in the side-tri, the rear-lat-spread.
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Well I think Arnold looked mediocre in the front-lat-spread. I guess if Sergio knew how to crunch his abs down and not make his torso appear so long- but look at the taper he has compared with Arnold!
hahaha. Maybe if he actually dieted too. A lot of excuses being made here. That's not the attitude it takes to win. Arnold had it. Sergio's nuthuggers on the defensive again.
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hahaha. Maybe if he actually dieted too. A lot of excuses being made here. That's not the attitude it takes to win. Arnold had it. Sergio's nuthuggers on the defensive again.
::)
Hint, read my posts where I said there are no excuses to be made for Sergio. ::)
Seriously, you're making it very boring for me and others to debate against you.
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sure ::)
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/gallery/musclegallery3/ga122.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/SergioOliva61.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Bodybuilders/Arnold18.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/SergioOliva2.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Bodybuilders/h54h5h4h54.jpg)
Are you kidding? You must seriously be blind. Arnold's bicep looks like it's about to pop. Look at his right bicep. His deltoid is much more seperated. Look at the striations in his chest. His serratus anterior. There's no comparison. To top it off, in addition to be CLEARLY more defined, Arnold would look even more massive due to his imposing height. The abdominals/thighs comparison must be a joke. Sergio is smooth as silk.
And just think...
These are the pics you chose. He's getting owned in your own pics! You must have ignored the shots I posted. Arnolds back is much thicker and much more defined. Hilarious.
Even Arnolds forearms look larger and more defined in the last pic. Arnold dwarfing the competition once again...
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(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/SergioOliva61.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldflexingonearmwithmassivevein.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsmostmuscular.jpg)
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(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnold_chest.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/so49.jpg)
Arnold's chest looks like it's about to burst. Notice how flat Sergio's chest is. Also notice Arnold's larger biceps and superior conditioning and seperation. This is really a no contest. Throw in the towl Sergio fans. :(
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Are you kidding? You must seriously be blind. Arnold's bicep looks like it's about to pop. Look at his right bicep. His deltoid is much more seperated. Look at the striations in his chest. His serratus anterior. There's no comparison. To top it off, in addition to be CLEARLY more defined, Arnold would look even more massive due to his imposing height. The abdominals/thighs comparison must be a joke. Sergio is smooth as silk.
And just think...
These are the pics you chose. He's getting owned in your own pics! You must have ignored the shots I posted. Arnolds back is much thicker and much more defined. Hilarious.
Even Arnolds forearms look larger and more defined in the last pic. Arnold dwarfing the competition once again...
Pretty much everything you just wrote, with the exception of the remarkable observation of chest seperation ::) is bullshit.
Try again.
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(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnold_chest.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/so49.jpg)
Arnold's chest looks like it's about to burst. Notice how flat Sergio's chest is. Also notice Arnold's larger biceps and superior conditioning and seperation. This is really a no contest. Throw in the towl Sergio fans. :(
Why am I not surprised? And you hold respect for your level of bodybuilding knowledge?
Wait, what were the two muscles you just mentioned? Chest? Biceps? ::)
It's all you've been able to pin on Sergio throughout this thread. Sometimes I think you are a woman, what with your obsession with the 'chick muscles'.
-
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Oliva06.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldtwistingdoublebiceps.jpg)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/SergioOliva28.jpg)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/index.jpg)
Sergio, like any great bodybuilder looks good alone. It's easy to forget how great Arnold truly was. As you can see, Arnold displayed more size AND definition, along with truly outstanding full and peaked biceps, and the greatest chest of all time. Superb conditioning and muscle seperation...Arnold was the complete package. Sergio was always the offseason Lee Priest of his day. Great arms, weird proportion, and powerlifter legs. Arnold was on a different level.
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Why am I not surprised? And you hold respect for your level of bodybuilding knowledge?
Wait, what were the two muscles you just mentioned? Chest? Biceps? ::)
It's all you've been able to pin on Sergio throughout this thread. Sometimes I think you are a woman, what with your obsession with the 'chick muscles'.
::)
I listed Arnold's flaws pages back. No answer came - I guess you agree with me.
-
::)
I listed Arnold's flaws pages back. No answer came - I guess you agree with me.
"But yeah, Arnold does look fantastic in that one pose- but that's it, it's one pose. Sergio is better from the back, he has a better front lat spread and a more intimidating most muscular."
Yeah. Sergio's back was better. ::)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsawesomeback.jpg)
His lat spread was bigger. ::)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Bodybuilders/h54h5h4h54.jpg)
His most muscular was "more intimidating."
LOL.
oh brother.
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NEO-GloryHole and Illogical OWNED!
;D
Arnold fans reign supreme!
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Sergio, like any great bodybuilder looks good alone. It's easy to forget how great Arnold truly was. As you can see, Arnold displayed more size AND definition, along with truly outstanding full and peaked biceps, and the greatest chest of all time. Superb conditioning and muscle seperation...Arnold was the complete package. Sergio was always the offseason Lee Priest of his day. Great arms, weird proportion, and powerlifter legs. Arnold was on a different level.
what are you talking about dude? They were roughly the same weight, and Sergio was 3-4 in shorter. How was Arnold bigger? I can understand him having better conditioning. I've never disputed that. Furthermore, Arnold did not have full biceps. I noticed that you have stated this before. He posed with his arms flexed past 90 degrees to hide the gap between his forearms and biceps.
Oh yes, and his biceps looked real symmetrical. ::)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldtwistingdoublebiceps.jpg)
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arnie pwned sergio from every angle..sergio was loooked like a little bitch next to arnold.arnie had calves sergio did'nt,arnie had ripped legs,sergio did'nt,arnie had a super chest ,sergio did'nt,arnie had a better back,sergio did'nt..hence proved arnie owns sergio
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Yeah. Sergio's back was better. ::)
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsawesomeback.jpg)
I'd say so.
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/SergioOliva32.jpg)
His lat spread was bigger. ::)
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Bodybuilders/h54h5h4h54.jpg)
am I missing something? He looks better in that pic.
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I'd say so.
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/SergioOliva32.jpg)
am I missing something? He looks better in that pic.
sergio sucked ass..arnie regins supreme..
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sergio sucked ass..arnie regins supreme..
oh brother ::)
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Looks like ND and his ass kissing click is taking over the thread. Pics are hard to find of Sergio. If you have, then why don't you post them.
Pics are hard to find of Sergio? you PM'ed me asking for pics of Sergio and I gave you this link
http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva.html
and this is your response to me
Hey ND, How's it going? We might have our different opinions on Coleman and Yates, but then again everyone has their own opinion. I was just wondering if you have anymore pics on Sergio? I have a collection of Sergio Pics already, but I was wondering if you can email me some rare ones of Sergio if you have any. I would appreciate it alot. It's up to you though. In case you do, here is my email address
P.S. thanks for the scans on muscle mecca. Me and the other guys appreciate it.
I gave you a link with 230 pics of Sergio and you claim you already have a collection ! so please tell me again how hard pics of Sergio are to find again . ;)
and I never claimed I was an ' expert ' if you can find where I made this claim feel free to post it , I'm not expert but I certainly know more than your dumb ass .
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I'd say so.
(http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h29/NeoSeminole/Sergio%20Oliva/SergioOliva32.jpg)
am I missing something? He looks better in that pic.
Don't bother conversing with 'realkarateblackbelt.' He is void of logic and reasoning and is incapable of holding a rational discussion.
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Yes, the Arnold supporters have taken over!
As if he needs our help.
8 Time MR. O!
Pics of Sergio are hard to find because Arnold was more impressive and had bigger more defined muscles. But I welcome you to post the two onstage competing against each other. Sergio is dwarfed!
You fuckin retard Arnold didnt win 8, you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground
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Pics are hard to find of Sergio? you PM'ed me asking for pics of Sergio and I gave you this link
http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva.html
and this is your response to me
Hey ND, How's it going? We might have our different opinions on Coleman and Yates, but then again everyone has their own opinion. I was just wondering if you have anymore pics on Sergio? I have a collection of Sergio Pics already, but I was wondering if you can email me some rare ones of Sergio if you have any. I would appreciate it alot. It's up to you though. In case you do, here is my email address
P.S. thanks for the scans on muscle mecca. Me and the other guys appreciate it.
I gave you a link with 230 pics of Sergio and you claim you already have a collection ! so please tell me again how hard pics of Sergio are to find again . ;)
and I never claimed I was an ' expert ' if you can find where I made this claim feel free to post it , I'm not expert but I certainly know more than your dumb ass .
I pm'ed you for more pics. I already have all of those 230 pics only. Where as they have 4.565 pics of Arnold dumb a$$. My pm was non bs and honest. lol, again thanks for the scans on muscle mecca you loser. Remember I'm still owning you big time on the Truce thread that's why you ran over here where there are less pics of Sergio. But I have you on the Coleman pics. Can't run away from that.
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Maybe Sergio was an ironage Chris Cormier lol.
I don't think Sergio took took ecstasy and screwed anything that moved. Although apparently Sergio was very much a ladies man. Sergio you old dog.
(http://www.kinky-kellie.com/images/kelliesergio.jpg)
SERGIO!!!!
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hahahahaha
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I don't think Sergio took took ecstasy and screwed anything that moved. Although apparently Sergio was very much a ladies man. Sergio you old dog.
(http://www.kinky-kellie.com/images/kelliesergio.jpg)
SERGIO!!!!
hahahahahaha, I can only imagine Arnold and Sergio out cruising for whores.
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I pm'ed you for more pics. I already have all of those 230 pics only. Where as they have 4.565 pics of Arnold dumb a$$. My pm was non bs and honest. lol, again thanks for the scans on muscle mecca you loser. Remember I'm still owning you big time on the Truce thread that's why you ran over here where there are less pics of Sergio. But I have you on the Coleman pics. Can't run away from that.
You're exposed on here and on the other thread for what you are , a fraud who knows very little about competitive bodybuilding , your PM was trying to kiss my ass and act all buddy-buddy until I shut your ass down ! you're still a " fucking-idiot " ;) and you still need to learn a LOT more before you're on my level kid. !!
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You're exposed on here and on the other thread for what you are , a fraud who knows very little about competitive bodybuilding , your PM was trying to kiss my ass and act all buddy-buddy until I shut your ass down ! you're still a " fucking-idiot " ;) and you still need to learn a LOT more before you're on my level kid. !!
Exposed? Exposed of what? That pm I sent you was way before you started acting like an a$$. So get your facts straight. I've "OWNED" you everyday on the TRuce thread and everyone clearly sees it. You're right, I'm not on your level. No one is. We are all above you. You're the lowest of the low. Bottom of the barrel. You are the worst "TROLL" on GetBig and you can't deny that, lol, 10,000 posts. If that's not a TROLL then what is?
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Exposed? Exposed of what? That pm I sent you was way before you started acting like an a$$. So get your facts straight. I've "OWNED" you everyday on the TRuce thread and everyone clearly sees it. You're right, I'm not on your level. No one is. We are all above you. You're the lowest of the low. Bottom of the barrel. You are the worst "TROLL" on GetBig and you can't deny that, lol, 10,000 posts. If that's not a TROLL then what is?
Hahah owned!!!!! ND has forgoten more about bb then you know. The guy always posts well written credible arguments. That is a fact.
Btw, get your ass in the other thread and answer my question.
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hahahahahaha, I can only imagine Arnold and Sergio out cruising for whores.
that would be quite an adventure!! ;D
Arnold to woman "I vant to fuck you"
Sergio to woman "Hot sexy mama come here for some suga!"
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Exposed? Exposed of what? That pm I sent you was way before you started acting like an a$$. So get your facts straight. I've "OWNED" you everyday on the TRuce thread and everyone clearly sees it. You're right, I'm not on your level. No one is. We are all above you. You're the lowest of the low. Bottom of the barrel. You are the worst "TROLL" on GetBig and you can't deny that, lol, 10,000 posts. If that's not a TROLL then what is?
You've ' joined ' the truce thread 2 minutes ago and you've owned me? LMFAO kid pumpster , Hulkster and the rest of Camp delusional tried to ' own ' me for 700 pages and got trounced , you beg me for pics in PM kissing my ass and then when I shut your ass down you turn into the rat you are , bottom line is you exposed yourself as ignorant and clueless about competitive bodybuilding , your posts are delusional , misinformed and filled with bias , you don't know how contests are judged , you're another super groupie who bases everything on personal preference , you couldn't own me if this was 1840 and I was black ! the funny part is your novelty has already worn off but keep posting because I'll keep correcting you. ;)
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You've ' joined ' the truce thread 2 minutes ago and you've owned me? LMFAO kid pumpster , Hulkster and the rest of Camp delusional tried to ' own ' me for 700 pages and got trounced , you beg me for pics in PM kissing my ass and then when I shut your ass down you turn into the rat you are , bottom line is you exposed yourself as ignorant and clueless about competitive bodybuilding , your posts are delusional , misinformed and filled with bias , you don't know how contests are judged , you're another super groupie who bases everything on personal preference , you couldn't own me if this was 1840 and I was black ! the funny part is your novelty has already worn off but keep posting because I'll keep correcting you. ;)
Viscous!!!! I do not think ice can recover. Poor kid, had his whole life in front of him.
RIP :-\
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You've ' joined ' the truce thread 2 minutes ago and you've owned me? LMFAO kid pumpster , Hulkster and the rest of Camp delusional tried to ' own ' me for 700 pages and got trounced , you beg me for pics in PM kissing my ass and then when I shut your ass down you turn into the rat you are , bottom line is you exposed yourself as ignorant and clueless about competitive bodybuilding , your posts are delusional , misinformed and filled with bias , you don't know how contests are judged , you're another super groupie who bases everything on personal preference , you couldn't own me if this was 1840 and I was black ! the funny part is your novelty has already worn off but keep posting because I'll keep correcting you. ;)
I've recently joined the Truce thread and already OWNED your a$$ for more than the 700 pages put together period. That's all you say is "delusional". You keep saying that crap but don't even notice that your the biggest dilusional a$$ on here. I asked you nicely for pics, you denied and gave a link that everyone has already seen. All of this was done when I first started posting in the Truce thread until you came out of your shell and showed me who you really are. A low life TROLL. All you can do is talk about Yates and put down Coleman. Are you obsessed with him? You say you shut my ass down? In what way Nimrod? And your posts are not filled with misinformed and filled with bias? You're the best at doing that. You think you know everything about bodybuilding? Guess again. Why do you think most people on here don't argue with you, because you're clueless blind bat. I post comparison pics of both guys and Yates gets OWNED, and all you can do is bitch about it. You're full of excuses. You and your NUTHUGGERS can't just admit when you've been defeated. You and the NUTHUGGERS recently sound like you've been defeated. It's clear to see in your posts. We show you that Coleman is better than Yates in many mandatory poses but yet you fail to agree because "You Think" or in "Your Opinion" Yates is better? Is that all you can do? I know how the contests are judged buddy. I might be a fan of Coleman, but your the biggest guy, Yates GROUPIE, LEFT NUT SUCKING SCUM on here. Please get out of here before you make yourself look more stupid, if that's possible. I'm finished arguing with you but that won't stop me from posting in the Truce thread and making you look stupid over and over. I'll post in that thread until someone deletes it. It's the name of the game. You should learn to live with it.
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You fuckin retard Arnold did win 8, you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground
ummmm......well.....not to be a dick but arnold won "7" olympias...70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75 and 1980 that's "7". Lee Haney and Ronnie have won "8" olympia's.
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I've recently joined the Truce thread and already OWNED your a$$ for more than the 700 pages put together period. That's all you say is "delusional". You keep saying that crap but don't even notice that your the biggest dilusional a$$ on here. I asked you nicely for pics, you denied and gave a link that everyone has already seen. All of this was done when I first started posting in the Truce thread until you came out of your shell and showed me who you really are. A low life TROLL. All you can do is talk about Yates and put down Coleman. Are you obsessed with him? You say you shut my ass down? In what way Nimrod? And your posts are not filled with misinformed and filled with bias? You're the best at doing that. You think you know everything about bodybuilding? Guess again. Why do you think most people on here don't argue with you, because you're clueless blind bat. I post comparison pics of both guys and Yates gets OWNED, and all you can do is bitch about it. You're full of excuses. You and your NUTHUGGERS can't just admit when you've been defeated. You and the NUTHUGGERS recently sound like you've been defeated. It's clear to see in your posts. We show you that Coleman is better than Yates in many mandatory poses but yet you fail to agree because "You Think" or in "Your Opinion" Yates is better? Is that all you can do? I know how the contests are judged buddy. I might be a fan of Coleman, but your the biggest guy, Yates GROUPIE, LEFT NUT SUCKING SCUM on here. Please get out of here before you make yourself look more stupid, if that's possible. I'm finished arguing with you but that won't stop me from posting in the Truce thread and making you look stupid over and over. I'll post in that thread until someone deletes it. It's the name of the game. You should learn to live with it.
M3LTDOWN
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M3LTDOWN
It's about time someone says what I just said to ND so he can realize who he really is. You know it's true. That's why you're so quite after I put you to your place with the comparison pics. NUFF SAID.
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I've recently joined the Truce thread and already OWNED your a$$ for more than the 700 pages put together period. That's all you say is "delusional". You keep saying that crap but don't even notice that your the biggest dilusional a$$ on here. I asked you nicely for pics, you denied and gave a link that everyone has already seen. All of this was done when I first started posting in the Truce thread until you came out of your shell and showed me who you really are. A low life TROLL. All you can do is talk about Yates and put down Coleman. Are you obsessed with him? You say you shut my ass down? In what way Nimrod? And your posts are not filled with misinformed and filled with bias? You're the best at doing that. You think you know everything about bodybuilding? Guess again. Why do you think most people on here don't argue with you, because you're clueless blind bat. I post comparison pics of both guys and Yates gets OWNED, and all you can do is bitch about it. You're full of excuses. You and your NUTHUGGERS can't just admit when you've been defeated. You and the NUTHUGGERS recently sound like you've been defeated. It's clear to see in your posts. We show you that Coleman is better than Yates in many mandatory poses but yet you fail to agree because "You Think" or in "Your Opinion" Yates is better? Is that all you can do? I know how the contests are judged buddy. I might be a fan of Coleman, but your the biggest guy, Yates GROUPIE, LEFT NUT SUCKING SCUM on here. Please get out of here before you make yourself look more stupid, if that's possible. I'm finished arguing with you but that won't stop me from posting in the Truce thread and making you look stupid over and over. I'll post in that thread until someone deletes it. It's the name of the game. You should learn to live with it.
MELTDOWN lol
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You've ' joined ' the truce thread 2 minutes ago and you've owned me? LMFAO kid pumpster , Hulkster and the rest of Camp delusional tried to ' own ' me for 700 pages and got trounced , you beg me for pics in PM kissing my ass and then when I shut your ass down you turn into the rat you are , bottom line is you exposed yourself as ignorant and clueless about competitive bodybuilding , your posts are delusional , misinformed and filled with bias , you don't know how contests are judged , you're another super groupie who bases everything on personal preference , you couldn't own me if this was 1840 and I was black ! the funny part is your novelty has already worn off but keep posting because I'll keep correcting you. ;)
Why do you call him 'kid'? And the same with hulkster?
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Why do you call him 'kid'? And the same with hulkster?
Because their knowledge is very young and because in all probability I'm older !
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Because their knowledge is very young and because in all probability I'm older !
ND, most of what you post is second-hand quotes from magazines or journalists- not your own knowledge.
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ND, most of what you post is second-hand quotes from magazines or journalists- not your own knowledge.
I highly doubt you've read most of my opinions covering the 700+ pages of the truce thread , I do agree with the writers alot and other times I don't , I formulate my own opinions after taking in all the evidence , pictures , video , eye witness accounts , judging criteria , but on some matters I do take into account the authority of others based on their history of objectivity , honesty .
example I don't agree with the writers of MD who said the other reason Ronnie lost the 2002 SOS was because Gunther was white and they were trying to making the Olympia more exciting I think thats pure nonsense , if you want lol check out the truce thread you'll see I made some very long and drawn out posts about my opinions , am I always right? absolutely NOT but for the most part I'm not as absurd as some of the zealots on that thread , not by a longshot.
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I've recently joined the Truce thread and already OWNED your a$$ for more than the 700 pages put together period. That's all you say is "delusional". You keep saying that crap but don't even notice that your the biggest dilusional a$$ on here. I asked you nicely for pics, you denied and gave a link that everyone has already seen. All of this was done when I first started posting in the Truce thread until you came out of your shell and showed me who you really are. A low life TROLL. All you can do is talk about Yates and put down Coleman. Are you obsessed with him? You say you shut my ass down? In what way Nimrod? And your posts are not filled with misinformed and filled with bias? You're the best at doing that. You think you know everything about bodybuilding? Guess again. Why do you think most people on here don't argue with you, because you're clueless blind bat. I post comparison pics of both guys and Yates gets OWNED, and all you can do is bitch about it. You're full of excuses. You and your NUTHUGGERS can't just admit when you've been defeated. You and the NUTHUGGERS recently sound like you've been defeated. It's clear to see in your posts. We show you that Coleman is better than Yates in many mandatory poses but yet you fail to agree because "You Think" or in "Your Opinion" Yates is better? Is that all you can do? I know how the contests are judged buddy. I might be a fan of Coleman, but your the biggest guy, Yates GROUPIE, LEFT NUT SUCKING SCUM on here. Please get out of here before you make yourself look more stupid, if that's possible. I'm finished arguing with you but that won't stop me from posting in the Truce thread and making you look stupid over and over. I'll post in that thread until someone deletes it. It's the name of the game. You should learn to live with it.
What a profound and well written post. hahahahaha
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ummmm......well.....not to be a dick but arnold won "7" olympias...70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75 and 1980 that's "7". Lee Haney and Ronnie have won "8" olympia's.
Some kind soul was fuck with my post, i fixed it again!!
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7 times is still more than Sergio. ;D
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Sergio in 76 and his last conest in 1985 Mr Olympia
What do you think was his best year, man? I think he's the most genetically gifted of all times: the only to posses and absolutely flawless structure with long muscle bellies throughout his entire body. However, I think he only looked truly great once. Arnold defeated him mostly to to greater overrall muscularity and hardness. Oliva never seemed to be able to peal for a contest. A true waste. I think he truly failed to live up to his potential, which is a shame, because he could truly have been what Coleman tried and failed: to be a larger version of Wheeler. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Arnold had more market appeal and of course Joe Weider's goal was to sell magazines, what any good businessman would want to do. But as good as Arnold was he still had characteristics of a human being while Sergio was all cartoon. I don't think we'll ever see a taper like his again.
Wrong! Weider was the first magazine publisher to put a Black Man on the cover of an American magazine, way back in the early 1950's. Once again, you show slanted knowledge of bodybuilding. Which probably explains why you never reply to my posts at the truce thread. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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It's about time someone says what I just said to ND so he can realize who he really is. You know it's true. That's why you're so quite after I put you to your place with the comparison pics. NUFF SAID.
Actually, I still waiting for you to reply to a post I made in this thread. I even told you to answer my question in another thread. Aahahahaaahahah!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!!
You are just mad because Sergio Olivia is the flex wheeler of the ironage. All the potential in the world. Wasted!!!! Arnold was bigger and harder. It is easy to see why he beat Olivia all the times he did.
Keep making excuses and posting measurements and calculations. The bottom line is, Arnold was more ripped, more separated, more muscular and looked better on stage. Arnold had awesome genetics. Sergio had PERFECT genetics. But you know what? He never used them. He never got his ass into shape. He never got seperation in those meat log thighs.
Dont hate, appreciate!!!!!
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/index.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/gruppociak/so54.jpg)
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What do you think was his best year, man? I think he's the most genetically gifted of all times: the only to posses and absolutely flawless structure with long muscle bellies throughout his entire body. However, I think he only looked truly great once. Arnold defeated him mostly to to greater overrall muscularity and hardness. Oliva never seemed to be able to peal for a contest. A true waste. I think he truly failed to live up to his potential, which is a shame, because he could truly have been what Coleman tried and failed: to be a larger version of Wheeler. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Sergio without a doubt had a truly fantastic structure , his balance , proportion and muscle distribution are arguably the best of all time , his muscle shape , tiny joints and waist as well complete the effect , his only real problem was conditioning , I've read stories that his diet sucked and he also used to work a 12 hour shift at the meat packing plant and then work out for 2 hours the guy was a machine , with the right diet and better presentation he would have been unstopable , I think 1972 was as good as it gets for him but I guess he came close to that at the 1978 WGGB Mr Olympus contest , but from a structure and balance standpoint Sergio blows Arnold out of the water but it takes more than the best genetics to be the best bodybuilder , I'm a huge fan of Sergios and always have been but Arnold was clearly the more complete bodybuilder but I never seen any footage from the 1972 Olympia so I wouldn't say Arnold beat him outright , the pictures don't give me enough to make a difinitive opinion , it some Arnold looks better and other Sergio does .
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goddamn, that's the best most muscular I've ever seen. Sergio looks complete from head to toe - massive chest, traps, delts, biceps, triceps, forearms, quads, and calves. Thanks ND.
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YEAH NICE PIC ND!!!
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What do you think was his best year, man?
I believe Sergio's best year was definitely 1972 closely followed by 1980-81. We all have our own opinions but I think closely followed by Arnold '74, Dorian '93 & Ronnie '99 that Sergio's '72 form is still the greatest physique any bodybuilder has ever displayed, for my eyes anyway.
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Oliva14.jpg)
1972
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/oliva/so105.jpg)
1980
SERGIO!!!!
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Sergio was a pimp !
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Sergio was a pimp !
Damn Bro!!! Keep posting pics! :)
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Sergio without a doubt had a truly fantastic structure , his balance , proportion and muscle distribution are arguably the best of all time , his muscle shape , tiny joints and waist as well complete the effect , his only real problem was conditioning , I've read stories that his diet sucked and he also used to work a 12 hour shift at the meat packing plant and then work out for 2 hours the guy was a machine , with the right diet and better presentation he would have been unstopable , I think 1972 was as good as it gets for him but I guess he came close to that at the 1978 WGGB Mr Olympus contest , but from a structure and balance standpoint Sergio blows Arnold out of the water but it takes more than the best genetics to be the best bodybuilder , I'm a huge fan of Sergios and always have been but Arnold was clearly the more complete bodybuilder but I never seen any footage from the 1972 Olympia so I wouldn't say Arnold beat him outright , the pictures don't give me enough to make a difinitive opinion , it some Arnold looks better and other Sergio does .
Let me preface this by saying that I, too, think that Arnold is the greatest overrall bodybuilder. I think Arnold looked truly fantastic at least three different times: at the 171 and 1974 Olympias as well as at the NABBA Mr.Universe. In fact, his form at the 1974 Olympia was, undoubtedly, the best 237 lbs that ever stepped onstage. Period.
Sergio strikes me as possesing the frame and long muscle bellies of Wheeler, with the size potetial of a Lee Haney. That's pretty much as good as it gets, methink. Sergio also struck as being very complete. But then, so was Arnold. To be honest with you, I don't think there's much of a difference in completenss between Arnold and Sergio; I don't think that's the reason why Arnold defeated him so many times. What muscle was Oliva missing ???
Comparing their respective pysiques, Oliva has a better frame as far as aestetics goes, but Arnold had him on bone size. This is what I perceive to be the key difference that made Arnold better than Oliva: raw muscularity with superior hardness&dryness. To be honest with you, I don't think Arnold was more complete than Oliva. From a skeltal perspective, Oliva was superior, and his muscle bellies were rounder and fuller. However, I think that Oliva had some muscle assymetries in his body, such as having very big biceps and triceps but delts that were smaller. Oliva was very complete, in the sense that no muscle was missing from his frame, but Arnold developed his more symmetrically and this is another advantage.
In conclusion, Oliva had the best natural structure and the best muscle structure as well, but Arnold was bigger, harder and develpoped his muscles more evenly, and this is why he defeated Oliva more often. When I compare the two, two things come to mind: that Arnold is significantly more muscular and had more symmetrically developed muscles. But in terms of musco-skeletal structure, Oliva reigned supreme. Is this what you were terying to say, man ??? Because, frankly, I think that Oliva was very complete in terms of his frame and lengh and shape of his muscle bellies. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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YEAH NICE PIC ND!!!
It's always a pleasure to discuss bodyuilding with NarcissisticDeity. I know a lot about bodyuilding, but everytime he talks, I listen, because his posts are very interesting and thorough. We have been posting at that thread side by side for 700 pages and never address each other there, so it's great to actually debate him at another thread. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Not to mention that never starts bullshit theads about "ownings" and gay jokes, and comes here to discuss what's really important: bodybuilding. Like me, he's one of the few genuine bodybuilding fans here. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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It's always a pleasure to discuss bodyuilding with NarcissisticDeity. I know a lot about bodyuilding, but everytime he talks, I listen, because his posts are very interesting and thorough. We have been posting at that thread side by side for 700 pages and never address each other there, so it's great to actually debate him at another thread. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Sucky is the man !! he knows his shit as well I know his posts are long sometimes and people don't like to read all of them ,but he always makes his point . I don't agree with him all the time but for the most part we're almost always on the same page , here is more pics of Sergio.
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Sucky is the man !! he knows his shit as well I know his posts are long sometimes and people don't like to read all of them ,but he always makes his point . I don't agree with him all the time but for the most part we're almost always on the same page , here is more pics of Sergio.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=111479.0;attach=128230;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=111479.0;attach=128306;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=111479.0;attach=128467;image)
Good lord ND, where are you getting all these from :). Keep em coming.
SERGIO!!!!
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Sergio living the life
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Most muscular
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Let me preface this by saying that I, too, think that Arnold is the greatest overrall bodybuilder. I think Arnold looked truly fantastic at least three different times: at the 171 and 1974 Olympias as well as at the NABBA Mr.Universe. In fact, his form at the 1974 Olympia was, undoubtedly, the best 237 lbs that ever stepped onstage. Period.
Sergio strikes me as possesing the frame and long muscle bellies of Wheeler, with the size potetial of a Lee Haney. That's pretty much as good as it gets, methink. Sergio also struck as being very complete. But then, so was Arnold. To be honest with you, I don't think there's much of a difference in completenss between Arnold and Sergio; I don't think that's the reason why Arnold defeated him so many times. What muscle was Oliva missing ???
Comparing their respective pysiques, Oliva has a better frame as far as aestetics goes, but Arnold had him on bone size. This is what I perceive to be the key difference that made Arnold better than Oliva: raw muscularity with superior hardness&dryness. To be honest with you, I don't think Arnold was more complete than Oliva. From a skeltal perspective, Oliva was superior, and his muscle bellies were rounder and fuller. However, I think that Oliva had some muscle assymetries in his body, such as having very big biceps and triceps but delts that were smaller. Oliva was very complete, in the sense that no muscle was missing from his frame, but Arnold developed his more symmetrically and this is another advantage.
In conclusion, Oliva had the best natural structure and the best muscle structure as well, but Arnold was bigger, harder and develpoped his muscles more evenly, and this is why he defeated Oliva more often. When I compare the two, two things come to mind: that Arnold is significantly more muscular and had more symmetrically developed muscles. But in terms of musco-skeletal structure, Oliva reigned supreme. Is this what you were terying to say, man ??? Because, frankly, I think that Oliva was very complete in terms of his frame and lengh and shape of his muscle bellies. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Hey man, can you reply to this post? Thanks. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Sergio blows Arnold out of the water!!!
Not even close. Other way around my friend. Just look at how huge/ripped/seperated Arnie is.Sergio was huge no doubt. But,that tiny dome piece Sergio was sporting makes him look cartoonish while standing alone. When he stood next to others it was a different story.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsmostmuscular.jpg?t=1166413682)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=111479.0;attach=128482;image)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so12.jpg)
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Not even close. Other way around my friend. Just look at how huge/ripped/seperated Arnie is.Sergio was huge no doubt. But,that tiny dome piece Sergio was sporting makes him look cartoonish while standing alone. When he stood next to others it was a different story.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/arnoldsmostmuscular.jpg?t=1166413682)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=111479.0;attach=128482;image)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/so12.jpg)
Where did you find that cool pic of Sergio's most muscular?
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Hey look it's Dexter Jackson with hair in the bottom left corner. lol.
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Where did you find that cool pic of Sergio's most muscular?
Nd found it. I must admit, Sergios foraems are pretty crazy in that pic :o
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Nd found it. I must admit, Sergios foraems are pretty crazy in that pic :o
That's the coolest physique!
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1972