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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: fitt@40 on December 19, 2006, 08:48:11 AM
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What are your thoughts on being a Christian and the lifestyle of a bodybuilder? I'm only talking about the typical things required to be a successful bodybuilder.
I often hear bodybuilders (from professionals to local competitors) say that their efforts are of God. I've always found that interesting. This is not an attempt to slander anyone's opinion or push mine. Just curious as to what a Christian bodybuilder has to say.
I've read many posts in this section by those who adamantly deny any form of Christianity or organized religion. Quite frankly, I'm not interested in your view....you've made your position very clear. I respect it, but this time you can keep it to yourself.
Peace
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God is often praised or condemned for things that he had nothing to do with.
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What are your thoughts on being a Christian and the lifestyle of a bodybuilder? I'm only talking about the typical things required to be a successful bodybuilder.
I often hear bodybuilders (from professionals to local competitors) say that their efforts are of God. I've always found that interesting. This is not an attempt to slander anyone's opinion or push mine. Just curious as to what a Christian bodybuilder has to say.
I've read many posts in this section by those who adamantly deny any form of Christianity or organized religion. Quite frankly, I'm not interested in your view....you've made your position very clear. I respect it, but this time you can keep it to yourself.
Peace
As a Christian you should not be overeating even. Since you could be giving that food to the poor. So Christian bodybuilders aren't even following their religion properly.
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As a Christian you should not be overeating even. Since you could be giving that food to the poor. So Christian bodybuilders aren't even following their religion properly.
thats taking it a little too far. are you a bad christian if you drive a bmw? you could by an accord and give the extra money to the poor. this isnt what a belief in god is about.
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The biggest misunderstanding of chirstianity since Christ was that in order to be a faithful christian you have to go to church on sundays, not say swear words, fast, and so on... While in actual fact its the soul one should care about, not the body - that was christ's central message.
One can go to church every sunday, fast, etc, etc...But if in his heart he has envy, hate, fear, and condemnation of people who don't live the same life style - then he's so-called christianity is a fake!
On the other hand, someone who, say, never goes to church, takes roids, trains, and dates different women, but at the same time is honest, responsible, kind, and strives to be free from prejudice - then he is 100 time more a christian than the first guy.
One should really must differentiate between rituals (e.g. church) and ture faith (the philosophy of the teachings of the Christ).
My opinion only, no offence to anyone.
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thats taking it a little too far. are you a bad christian if you drive a bmw? you could by an accord and give the extra money to the poor. this isnt what a belief in god is about.
uh, yes it is. ::) Posts like this just confirm my belief that hell will be such a crowded place ! I look forward to some huge parties with all my self-proclaimed christian brothers and sisters.
To answer your question Fitt@40, there is no way that a true christian could be so self absorbed with vanity, to train, eat, tan, spend money on travel and supplements etc. to bodybuild or be a competitive bodybuilder and even remotely claim to be a real christian. Don't try to rationalize it out brother.
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I think bodybuilding is completely compatible with Christianity. Your body is a temple. Nothing anti-Christian at all about training hard, eating right, tanning, spending money on supplements, etc.
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I think bodybuilding is completely compatible with Christianity. Your body is a temple. Nothing anti-Christian at all about training hard, eating right, tanning, spending money on supplements, etc.
My thoughts exactly, Beach. What better way to physically honor God than to take care of the very give that was given to us by Him?
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My thoughts exactly, Beach. What better way to physically honor God than to take care of the very give that was given to us by Him?
Yep. I agree. It not only honors God, but serves as a witness to others (assuming you live right).
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And welcome back. :)
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And welcome back. :)
Thanks, bro. Sorry I haven't been able to post more often. Been putting in some heavy hours both at work and at church.
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Been putting in some heavy hours ...at church.
;D
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uh, yes it is. ::) Posts like this just confirm my belief that hell will be such a crowded place ! I look forward to some huge parties with all my self-proclaimed Christian brothers and sisters.
To answer your question Fitt@40, there is no way that a true Christian could be so self absorbed with vanity, to train, eat, tan, spend money on travel and supplements etc. to bodybuild or be a competitive bodybuilder and even remotely claim to be a real Christian. Don't try to rationalize it out brother.
You and I actually agree....somewhat. I'm starting to think that the amount of self absorbed commitment it requires for success may be a problem.
I disagree with your implication that Christians should not obtain wealth. This is a misconception that many people share. The only time wealth becomes a problem is when a Christian places wealth above his or her relationship with God. Some may ask can't that same rationale be applied to bodybuilding or anything else. In other words, as long as bodybuilding does not get placed above God, shouldn't it be okay? I started this thread because someone stated to me that a top Pro's committent and acknowledgement of God has to prove that he's successful because he's a true Christian. I think Tre said it best when he said "God is often praised or condemned for things that he had nothing to do with". Where does one draw the line? If a woman is an exceptional exotic dancer and she claims that God gave her the ability to shake her rump, does that make her a Christian. I think not.
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I think bodybuilding is completely compatible with Christianity. Your body is a temple. Nothing anti-Christian at all about training hard, eating right, tanning, spending money on supplements, etc.
Let's clarify something.
Are you referring to keeping yourself strong and healthy weight training?
Or are you talking about being competitive with bb, fitness or figure?
BIG DIFFERENCE, I'm talking about the latter.
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You and I actually agree....somewhat. I'm starting to think that the amount of self absorbed commitment it requires for success may be a problem.
I disagree with your implication that Christians should not obtain wealth. This is a misconception that many people share.
So you think that Jesus would find it accepting that someone live in excess, 70k cars, 6 bedroom homes (when 3 are needed), jewelry, expensive exotic vacations etc al.
This would be acceptable as opposed to living modestly and taking that excess wealth and helping those less fortunate?
Interesting.
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So you think that Jesus would find it accepting that someone live in excess, 70k cars, 6 bedroom homes (when 3 are needed), jewelry, expensive exotic vacations etc al.
What if he did all of these things, but yet took time out to take care of the sick and interned. Helped the unemployed get jobs.
For instance, if I had the money and time, bodybuilding, cars and books would be my passion. But I would definitely give back to the community, because I believe in "Each One, Teach One", and givng to others makes me feel like I am closer to God. Just let me have those, and that would not interfere with my relationship with God.
Of course my house would be huge...to house the big personal gym, the world's largest private library, and the would's most exclusive car collection ;D
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It's called gluttony Parker, sorry. I know people like to rationalize it out to make themselves feel ok about the loaded Mercedes they bought to drive to work and back, but it is what it is.
Would Mother Theresa, if she had 75k and could drive a car, by the cheapest possible functional car and use the rest of the money for the benefit of others, or buy a 75k car?
The answer to that question should apply to EVERYONE who claims to live a christian lifestyle.
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You are correct CG....sort of. It can be gluttony to have such things. I would venture to say that most times it is gluttony in these situations. However, I challenge you to find Scripture that says one cannot have great wealth and love God. You'll find serveral that says one cannot love God and love money. Again,I do agree that most who have great wealth loves the wealth more than God. Scripture tells us that it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
It's all about one's heart. Mark 10:22 tells of the situation whereby Christ instructed a rich man to sell all he had, give it to the poor and then follow Him. The rich guy couldn't do it. That's when Christ told of the camel/entering Heaven deal. People often use Scripture like this to convey the message that one cannot be rich and a Christian. It is the love of money (or placing it before God) that's a problem. Job 42:10-14 tells of how God gave Job twice as much as he lost. God made him an extremely wealthy man.
This hold true for the other side of the coin as well. You and others have mentioned that Mother Theresa would have used excess wealth to help others. Even that does not sit well with God, if one's heart is not right. The Bible teaches us that come judgement day, there are going to be those who have done great things in the name of God, but will still be condemed to hell because their hearts never knew God.
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Let's clarify something.
Are you referring to keeping yourself strong and healthy weight training?
Or are you talking about being competitive with bb, fitness or figure?
BIG DIFFERENCE, I'm talking about the latter.
Both. Nothing anti-Christian about competing.
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It's called gluttony Parker, sorry. I know people like to rationalize it out to make themselves feel ok about the loaded Mercedes they bought to drive to work and back, but it is what it is.
Would Mother Theresa, if she had 75k and could drive a car, by the cheapest possible functional car and use the rest of the money for the benefit of others, or buy a 75k car?
The answer to that question should apply to EVERYONE who claims to live a christian lifestyle.
The "Christian lifestyle" includes living within your means. There is nothing anti-Christian about buying a $75k car if you can afford it. I think the problem is many people overextend themselves to purchase things they really cannot afford.
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It's called gluttony Parker, sorry. I know people like to rationalize it out to make themselves feel ok about the loaded Mercedes they bought to drive to work and back, but it is what it is.
Would Mother Theresa, if she had 75k and could drive a car, by the cheapest possible functional car and use the rest of the money for the benefit of others, or buy a 75k car?
The answer to that question should apply to EVERYONE who claims to live a christian lifestyle.
But you see Count, those are what make me happy. But doing for others whether they are less fortunate or normal is also what I like to do.
If I like to bodybuild in order to have mental and physical discipline (something many so-called Christians don't have), I see that not as gluttony, but trying to respect and build upon what God has giving me.
As far as books (knowledge), well, we can thank the Devil, for intoducing that to us, huh. God wanted us to remain ignorant for our own good, during that time. But I beleive that most of the issues that arise to today with racism, religious fanaticism, hatred, bigotry, are all due to ignorance and lack of knowledge. how is trying to get as much knowledge as possilbe, and trying to dessiminate that, glottony?
Cars, I like 'em. I like how they tick, how they look. But by no means am I show off, i like the technical aspect of cars, and having a exclusive collection of cars, that one could let the public see, would let others share in my passion, and possible spark the interest in others, which might
steer someone from the wrong path.
I don't think Mother Teresa would get the cheapest car around, if she were here. I think she would get a modest car, spec'd out with some options (safety), remember not even the Pope has just "basic" transportation ;D
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I'm sorry if I'm cutting in with my 2 cents, but reading the post I find that we generally miss the point. Its not whether you live within your financial means or not, or whether you spend 100k a month or give it away to charity. Its your soul, who you are, what is your attitude towards people, life, environment, and god. The basis of christianity, if you really read into it, have really nothing to do with material world.
17 century monks used to beat themselves with leather whips while kneeling on raw pees for 8 hours, thinking that way they somehow become better christians by undergoing physical suffering. I doubt anyone (including Christ himslef) would agree that this mazochism makes anybody a better christian.
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Do you guys really think that dumping all of that extra cash on these worldly possessions is what it's all about and that it's ok, because you're pure of heart?
Aren't there ALOT of less fortunate people and charities that would benefit from this?
That extra 50k that you spend on an elite car can change alot of peoples lives. (I'm just using that as an example, not an accusation).
Isn't it GOOD and CHRISTIAN that when you have the ability or earn the ability to help those less fortunate, that you actually DO?
I will just have to agree to disagree with you on this and in my opinion this is how todays christian will endlessly argue that they deserve self indulgence. It is a never ending debate in todays christian society, along with homosexuality.
It's either one way or the other.
We'll all find out in the end, it's a dice roll either way. For me, it is already worked out, for those that are relying on their interpretation of scripture to justify their lifestyle, I hope it works out for you, if not, see you in ..........
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Count, I hear you point.
But put it this way: if 2000 years we would take care of our souls instead of bothering how many times have I been to church this year, today there would not be such thing as charity, cuz there would not be any hungry, poor, and disadvantaged. There would be no need to give!
I know in today's world of materialism its hard to see, but more one is devoted to spiritual life, the less of material goods he will want. Those who buy 10 cars and 3 houses and wear 20 gold chains are those who are empty inside and need to filllup the vacuum somehow.
And all those megarich celebs who give to charity are prolly worse than those who give nothing. Certain well known american singer gives alot to charity...But most of her life she lived like a filthy slut, indulging her self in whatever pleasures she wanted. So, now suddenly she's good christian cuz she goes to africa and gives money to aids-sick children, making a gesture for publicity? (if she wanted it to be real charity she would not make it public and would send money anonimously). She tried every possible material indulgence she possibly could, but internal emptieness is still there...so there's nothing left to do but charities - yet another amuzement for herself.
I'm not saying you can drink yourself to death, indulge in perverted sexual activities, blow money on drugs and claim to be a good christian. I'm saying that if you first take care of your soul (instead of thinking about what food is it wrong to eat for christian, or how many times to go to church), then at the end of the day you WILL NOT have to restrict yourself from material indulgences, you will simply NOT WANT them.
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Isn't it GOOD and CHRISTIAN that when you have the ability or earn the ability to help those less fortunate, that you actually DO?
I will just have to agree to disagree with you on this and in my opinion this is how todays christian will endlessly argue that they deserve self indulgence. It is a never ending debate in todays christian society, along with homosexuality.
It's either one way or the other.
Your right, it is good and Christian to do that. I don't consider myself a Christian, I believe in God, but I have always helped others out from an early age, whether they be less fortunate or not. It has always been in my nature to do so. Is what i like a a vice or self indulgence, I don't know. True the extra money I would spend on a Ferrari would help many people out, but should a person with that type of money always give it to the less fortunate, and never treat themselves?
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Its all a question of priorities and what is your "god". Many Christians have "gods" that they place before GOD and don't even know it. What has control of your life? I would submit that there is your "god". Smoking, drinking, gambling, wealth (and its acquisition), INTERNET, food, bodybuilding,...........the list goes on. If ANYTHING OTHER THAN GOD runs your life, then as a Christian you have a problem. That's not to say that work of any kind is evil, but you gotta know what wins out when push comes to shove.
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to you list of "gods" I would also add church
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to you list of "gods" I would also add church
You know what, I actually kind of agree with you. Some folks go to church just to go to church, with no real purpose. If the purpose of going to church is to get closer to God, to better facilitiate your feeling of connection with the holy, then good on ya. If its just to show everyone else how "holy" you are, if being a Super Christian is your schtick, then I would say its all for the wrong reasons.
An Army chaplain I used to know actually had a pretty good spin on church. He said folks should treat a church like a FOB (Forward Operating Base). You go there to get spiritually resupplied, but spend most of your time out in the world "on patrol". If, as a Christian, the only way you can feel close ot God is by going to church, then there is a fundamental flaw in your understanding of Christianity and God's hopes for a relationship with you.
My $0.02.
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Its bad if one goes to show other people, but its much worse if one sincerely thinks that by going to church often (here I mean the actual act of going to the church service) he is somehow a better christian.
A true believer does not need a middle man between God and himself and therefore needs no institution like church.
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A true believer does not need a middle man between God and himself and therefore needs no institution like church.
True non-believers don't either. ;)
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Couple of pretty good posts Mr Miller.
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Its all a question of priorities and what is your "god". Many Christians have "gods" that they place before GOD and don't even know it. What has control of your life? I would submit that there is your "god". Smoking, drinking, gambling, wealth (and its acquisition), INTERNET, food, bodybuilding,...........the list goes on. If ANYTHING OTHER THAN GOD runs your life, then as a Christian you have a problem. That's not to say that work of any kind is evil, but you gotta know what wins out when push comes to shove.
If a person places anything before God, doesn't that disqualify (couldn't think of a better word) from being a Christian? As Tre and others have said, just because a person calls him or herself a Christian, it doesn't make it so.
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If a person places anything before God, doesn't that disqualify (couldn't think of a better word) from being a Christian? As Tre and others have said, just because a person calls him or herself a Christian, it doesn't make it so.
Being a Christian is simple, but a lot of people make it complicated. Good deeds, good works, church attendance, and a general lifeview FLOW from surrendering yourself to Christ and striving to be like Him. Unfortunately, a lot of people have it backwards and believe that through good works, good deeds, going to church, etc, they can be a Christian. All that is required to be a Christian is to accept Christ into your life, acknowledge him as your Savior, ask His forgiveness, and honor Him. Christ even made it easier to understand and abide by the 10 Commandments: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength'' and "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Mark 12:30-31) sum up the 10 Commandments; abide by those and you have all your bases covered. You can be a Christian and have your priorities all screwed up -- I had my priorities out of whack for a long time, but I still knew that I was a Christian and that I had made my covenant with God in my heart. I don't think that a Christian can categorize him/herself or others as good or bad Christians. It is not for us to judge, but to strive throughout our lives to be ever better.
I always remember Matthew 7:3-5, in which Christ said "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." I feel that, to some degree, I will always have a plank in my eye.
The world is full of hypocrites, and some of them call themselves Christians. I would ask that those of you who have encountered such hypocrites do not broadly label the rest of us the same (and that really applies to any religion).
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Couple of pretty good posts Mr Miller.
Appreciate it, Count.
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You know what, I actually kind of agree with you. Some folks go to church just to go to church, with no real purpose. If the purpose of going to church is to get closer to God, to better facilitiate your feeling of connection with the holy, then good on ya. If its just to show everyone else how "holy" you are, if being a Super Christian is your schtick, then I would say its all for the wrong reasons.
An Army chaplain I used to know actually had a pretty good spin on church. He said folks should treat a church like a FOB (Forward Operating Base). You go there to get spiritually resupplied, but spend most of your time out in the world "on patrol". If, as a Christian, the only way you can feel close ot God is by going to church, then there is a fundamental flaw in your understanding of Christianity and God's hopes for a relationship with you.
My $0.02.
I believe God is not found in a building. God is all around you. In the trees, the air. If you look for God in a man made building then you are looking in the wrong place, God is within you. Now one can use the church to unlock God from within you so that you can grasp it, but nothing else.
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Being a Christian is simple, but a lot of people make it complicated. Good deeds, good works, church attendance, and a general lifeview FLOW from surrendering yourself to Christ and striving to be like Him. Unfortunately, a lot of people have it backwards and believe that through good works, good deeds, going to church, etc, they can be a Christian. All that is required to be a Christian is to accept Christ into your life, acknowledge him as your Savior, ask His forgiveness, and honor Him. Christ even made it easier to understand and abide by the 10 Commandments: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength'' and "Love your neighbor as yourself" (Mark 12:30-31) sum up the 10 Commandments; abide by those and you have all your bases covered. You can be a Christian and have your priorities all screwed up -- I had my priorities out of whack for a long time, but I still knew that I was a Christian and that I had made my covenant with God in my heart. I don't think that a Christian can categorize him/herself or others as good or bad Christians. It is not for us to judge, but to strive throughout our lives to be ever better.
I always remember Matthew 7:3-5, in which Christ said "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." I feel that, to some degree, I will always have a plank in my eye.
The world is full of hypocrites, and some of them call themselves Christians. I would ask that those of you who have encountered such hypocrites do not broadly label the rest of us the same (and that really applies to any religion).
An excellent post! I do somewhat disagree with a person can have their priorities out of line and still be a Christian. I think God judges us based on our level of faith and knowledge. If I know that it's a sin to even look at a woman with lust, then I'm held accountable for that. I do understand that having your priorities out of line can simply mean that one is not devoting enough time to God. Certainly this does not have to prevent someone from being Saved. However, there is a point whereby our will can keep us from God's Will, and ultimately from being Saved.
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An excellent post! I do somewhat disagree with a person can have their priorities out of line and still be a Christian. I think God judges us based on our level of faith and knowledge. If I know that it's a sin to even look at a woman with lust, then I'm held accountable for that. I do understand that having your priorities out of line can simply mean that one is not devoting enough time to God. Certainly this does not have to prevent someone from being Saved. However, there is a point whereby our will can keep us from God's Will, and ultimately from being Saved.
Absolutely. Some of our acts CAN distance us from God. But referencing my previous post, I firmly believe that our acts flow from our relationship with God and Christ. And when talking of priorities, I was making a big assumption about still attempting to live a virtuous life. If someone sins constantly and KNOWINGLY, just figuring they can be forgiven when they are done with this round of sins and all is well, then I would submit that they are NOT a Christian -- they have violated the basic tenets of the covenant Christ has made with us to receive Salvation. This was a common occurance several hundred years ago in the Catholic Church, when the noble and wealthy would live lives of debauchery and every sin imaginable, then beg forgiveness on their deathbeds and receive absolution (usually for a large sum of money). But time has given us more insight into the true relationship that Christians should strive for and the lifeview we should adopt.
But that is a great point that our will CAN keep us from God's will. The BRAVEST thing I have ever seen is someone completely submit themselves to God's will and ask "what would You have me do?"
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A This was a common occurance several hundred years ago in the Catholic Church, when the noble and wealthy would live lives of debauchery and every sin imaginable, then beg forgiveness on their deathbeds and receive absolution (usually for a large sum of money).
I think it is still a common occurance even today. Its just taken another form, but the essence is the same.
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Absolutely. Some of our acts CAN distance us from God. But referencing my previous post, I firmly believe that our acts flow from our relationship with God and Christ. And when talking of priorities, I was making a big assumption about still attempting to live a virtuous life. If someone sins constantly and KNOWINGLY, just figuring they can be forgiven when they are done with this round of sins and all is well, then I would submit that they are NOT a Christian -- they have violated the basic tenets of the covenant Christ has made with us to receive Salvation. This was a common occurance several hundred years ago in the Catholic Church, when the noble and wealthy would live lives of debauchery and every sin imaginable, then beg forgiveness on their deathbeds and receive absolution (usually for a large sum of money). But time has given us more insight into the true relationship that Christians should strive for and the lifeview we should adopt.
But that is a great point that our will CAN keep us from God's will. The BRAVEST thing I have ever seen is someone completely submit themselves to God's will and ask "what would You have me do?"
We are saying the same thing. I, too, met someone who submitted himself to God's Will. It's interesting that you described such a person as being brave. When I first met this person, I thought he was kind of weak and timid. There was a situation in which he had been obviously wronged by a co-worker. When I suggested that he "in no uncertain terms, correct the individual", he simply said (paraphrasing) "I'd rather be wronged than risk being separated from God." At the time I did not know that was Scripture, but it still made quite an impression on me. Don't get me wrong, there were times when he was quite forceful and adamant. He truly seemed to wait for God's guidance in all situations.
Back to the question at hand. I agree with you in that our acts flow from our relationship with God and Christ. I'm just having a hard time seeing bodybuilding as an activity approved by Christ. I will submit to the fact that it's possible that I may be the problem. In other words, bodybuilding may be sinful only for me. I doubt this is the case, but I do allow for it being a possibility.
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I believe God is not found in a building. God is all around you. In the trees, the air. If you look for God in a man made building then you are looking in the wrong place, God is within you. Now one can use the church to unlock God from within you so that you can grasp it, but nothing else.
I agree with you in that God is not found in a building. He is within us; our hearts. However, one cannot dismiss the significance of the Church (the building). Do you recall what happen and what was said when Christ got angry in the Temple. He was angry because they were using the the House of God (the building) as a market place. He went on to tell them to destroy the Temple and that He would rebuild it in three days. Even the High Priests did not realize He was talking about his body.
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I'm just having a hard time seeing bodybuilding as an activity approved by Christ. I will submit to the fact that it's possible that I may be the problem. In other words, bodybuilding may be sinful only for me. I doubt this is the case, but I do allow for it being a possibility.
IMHO, if bodybuilding is interfering with your relationship with God, then its a problem. And I think only you can say that.
But as far as pros thanking God for their wins, etc., I think its all false and hypocritical. God did not put the drugs in their veins or set up the homosexual-friendly websites to fund their lifestyle -- there is really nothing Christian about that.
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What are your thoughts on being a Christian and the lifestyle of a bodybuilder? I'm only talking about the typical things required to be a successful bodybuilder.
I often hear bodybuilders (from professionals to local competitors) say that their efforts are of God. I've always found that interesting. This is not an attempt to slander anyone's opinion or push mine. Just curious as to what a Christian bodybuilder has to say.
The abbreviated biblical definition of a Christian is someone who recognizes their need for a savior and has accepted Christ as such.
There is nothing we can DO to gain or keep our salvation, it is a free gift provided by God.
Eph 2:8,9: "You are saved by GRACE through faith and NOT of works so that no one can boast."
Can you be a bodybuilder and be a Christian? Yes. Can a Christian be a bodybuilder that shoots illegal drugs into his veins? Yes.
Do some Christians purposely ignore the speed limit? Yes.
Will these things make them lose their salvation? If they are truly saved, no. BEing a "Christian" is not defined by the Christian's works or behavior. A Christian is defined as someone that has accepted by faith the free gift of forgiveness.
Are these people "good" Christians? I don't know. There are too many factors to consider besides these......I don't know anyone who is perfectly "good" of course. Is anyone "good" 100% of the time? No.
If someone has accepted Christ as Savior, they are forgiven....they are biblically defined as a "Christian" whether they shoplifted a tonka truck this morning or worked in a soup kitchen.
God wants us to live in a certain way, but how we live doesn't make us a Christian or a non-Christian. Whether you've accepted or rejected Christ is what determines if you are a Christian or not.
Some people may seem more "Christlike" than others, but you never know what goes on behind closed doors.
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uh, yes it is. ::) Posts like this just confirm my belief that hell will be such a crowded place ! I look forward to some huge parties with all my self-proclaimed christian brothers and sisters.
To answer your question Fitt@40, there is no way that a true christian could be so self absorbed with vanity, to train, eat, tan, spend money on travel and supplements etc. to bodybuild or be a competitive bodybuilder and even remotely claim to be a real christian. Don't try to rationalize it out brother.
I know you're being facetious about hell Count because you don't believe in life after death, but hell is described in the bible as a "place of outer-darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth." Doesn't sound like a good party to me :P
As for being self-absorbed, when I did a figure show I was very self-absorbed. It was a weird (but also a good learning) experience. Many of my thoughts had to do w/my physique ...food, suits, shoes, workouts, posing etc. For me, my relationship w/God (as well my relationship w/my husband) was placed behind "me." I believe that not everyone experiences these types of problems in prep for a show, but I did. Personally, competing is not for me if I feel my relationship w/God or my husband weakens.
That being said, people w/regular careers are sometimes obsessed w/thinking about work all the time, even when not in the office. Some competitive bodybuilders obtain their livelihoods soley from the asthetic of their physiques. It may seem vain to outsiders, but it can be comparative IMO.
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So you think that Jesus would find it accepting that someone live in excess, 70k cars, 6 bedroom homes (when 3 are needed), jewelry, expensive exotic vacations etc al.
This would be acceptable as opposed to living modestly and taking that excess wealth and helping those less fortunate?
Interesting.
I think it's unfair to assume that those people may not also giving to charity leaps and bounds above what they spend on themselves.
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The "Christian lifestyle" includes living within your means. There is nothing anti-Christian about buying a $75k car if you can afford it. I think the problem is many people overextend themselves to purchase things they really cannot afford.
agree
If a person places anything before God, doesn't that disqualify (couldn't think of a better word) from being a Christian?
No.....Christian = Grace through faith and not of works
You can be a Christian and have your priorities all screwed up -- I had my priorities out of whack for a long time, but I still knew that I was a Christian and that I had made my covenant with God in my heart. I don't think that a Christian can categorize him/herself or others as good or bad Christians. It is not for us to judge, but to strive throughout our lives to be ever better.
good post
I would ask that those of you who have encountered such hypocrites do not broadly label the rest of us the same (and that really applies to any religion).
:)
IMHO, if bodybuilding is interfering with your relationship with God, then its a problem. And I think only you can say that.
agree -- and it (competing) would be a problem for me....but I assume it's not a problem for everyone.
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I think it's unfair to assume that those people may not also giving to charity leaps and bounds above what they spend on themselves.
That's possible, but where does someone draw the line?
Again, I have to refer back to the Readers Digest article on that line worker from Ford. Probably the most touching story I've read about someone.
Remember Rickey Henderson? He was always referring to god when talking about one thing or another and the guy actually held out and would not play baseball because he thought 3 MILLION dollars per year was not fair to him.
Is he being reasonable because he should get fair market value (I'm not against someone earning a fair wage)?
But his fair market value was that at that time, he felt he should be the highest paid player in the game and when someone signed a bigger contract, he failed to honor his contract and demanded more money. How would his creator look at this. Just a misguided person, but he's saved and is welcome in the kingdom of heaven, or a self absorbed, gluttonous pig who would make Satan smile?
I'm just trying to establish some lines in the sand.
What makes your charity different than Bill Gates? SHOULD he, in the eyes of God live a different lifestyle than you, because he earns more? SHOULD he place himself in a different category. IS IT UNREASONABLE to expect him to live in a normal suburb around normal people and not be isolated in a 50 million dollar compound?
A conversation I had with 2 very religious (christian) women I had 2 days ago. We were talking about New Years and working the holidays etc..... They both agreed, worship and count the money, worship and count the money. I know that one of them admits to being addicted to online shopping (and I'm not talking about buying for others). I believe she said she has over 100 pairs of shoes.
Again, these are not just normal everyday people, they tell me how deep their faith is and how close their relationship with God. They always tell me that I need saved and they pray for me...so I find their behavior conflicting.
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That's possible, but where does someone draw the line?
I guess the line will vary from person to person.
Remember Rickey Henderson? He was always referring to god when talking about one thing or another and the guy actually held out and would not play baseball because he thought 3 MILLION dollars per year was not fair to him.
Is he being reasonable because he should get fair market value (I'm not against someone earning a fair wage)?
But his fair market value was that at that time, he felt he should be the highest paid player in the game and when someone signed a bigger contract, he failed to honor his contract and demanded more money. How would his creator look at this. Just a misguided person, but he's saved and is welcome in the kingdom of heaven, or a self absorbed, gluttonous pig who would make Satan smile?
It seems like he may have had a problem with pride and ego? I'm sure we all struggle w/these at times. I'm sure that his behavior may have "[made] Satan smile," especially seeing how it affected you and seemed to help you turn farther from God. If it affected you it could have affected thousands that witnessed it.
But if the guy is truly a Christian (saved by Grace), God forgives him and he will still spend eternity w/God.
I've had PMs from people on getbig that profess to be Christians, but they don't want others on here to know it because they don't want their behavior to deter anyone from accepting Christ.
What makes your charity different than Bill Gates? SHOULD he, in the eyes of God live a different lifestyle than you, because he earns more? SHOULD he place himself in a different category. IS IT UNREASONABLE to expect him to live in a normal suburb around normal people and not be isolated in a 50 million dollar compound?
I don't know if it's unreasonable to expect Bill Gates to live in a normal suburb or not. Maybe he needs to live in a compound for his and his family's protection? I don't know. Does it need to be a 50 million dollar compound? Probably not, but it is just a fraction of his wealth. I have no idea if the man is a Christian or not, but he can afford his home....and he can afford to give millions and millions to charity (not sure if he does; maybe he doesn't talk about it).
A conversation I had with 2 very religious (christian) women I had 2 days ago. We were talking about New Years and working the holidays etc..... They both agreed, worship and count the money, worship and count the money. I know that one of them admits to being addicted to online shopping (and I'm not talking about buying for others). I believe she said she has over 100 pairs of shoes.
Again, these are not just normal everyday people, they tell me how deep their faith is and how close their relationship with God. They always tell me that I need saved and they pray for me...so I find their behavior conflicting.
Does this mean that you believe that they should live perfect lives since they claim to have a close relationship w/God? Still living in these fleshly bodies, living perfectly is impossible. And would their lives need to be lived perfectly according to your standards before you would believe that they have a relationship w/God?
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I guess the line will vary from person to person.
Wow, I did not think one sentence could sum most of my problem with the christian community of today. This one does. I do not think that line should vary much.
I'm not going to pick apart your response STella, you are basically justifying any example I site, or anything, even hypothetical that one may do and qualify it because they are not perfect and it is open to a hundred different interpretations of what my be appropriate and inappropriate.
This is where my problems begin with the christian community. I am not putting you down or trying to belittle what you are saying, but the built in excuse machine gets turned on when christians are confronted with their own inadequacies in a lifestyle they CHOOSE to adhere to.
It's not like we are asking christians to live by the 10 commandments, they choose to do so. Yet when they continously do as they please, they would rather argue why they are entitled, or that they are not perfect, yet still saved. No one is perfect, but even a casual observation of these people shows time and time again that the attempt to adhere to that lifestyle is not even half-hearted at best.
Don't take this personal STella, I do not know you and you may absolutely try with all of your heart to be a good christian, but unfortunately by that title, you are getting lumped in with the rest, for good or bad.
THANK GOD I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY (PUN INTENDED)
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Wow, I did not think one sentence could sum most of my problem with the christian community of today. This one does. I do not think that line should vary much.
I'm not going to pick apart your response STella, you are basically justifying any example I site, or anything, even hypothetical that one may do and qualify it because they are not perfect and it is open to a hundred different interpretations of what my be appropriate and inappropriate.
This is where my problems begin with the christian community. I am not putting you down or trying to belittle what you are saying, but the built in excuse machine gets turned on when christians are confronted with their own inadequacies in a lifestyle they CHOOSE to adhere to.
It's not like we are asking christians to live by the 10 commandments, they choose to do so. Yet when they continously do as they please, they would rather argue why they are entitled, or that they are not perfect, yet still saved. No one is perfect, but even a casual observation of these people shows time and time again that the attempt to adhere to that lifestyle is not even half-hearted at best.
Don't take this personal STella, I do not know you and you may absolutely try with all of your heart to be a good christian, but unfortunately by that title, you are getting lumped in with the rest, for good or bad.
THANK GOD I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY (PUN INTENDED)
Count, I am not going to defend someone who is a self-proclaimed Christian yet lives an un-Christian life. I doubt most Christians would. You are making this a "you vs Christians" argument, but you are characterizing all Christians by the few conversations you have had with some ladies who say they are really good Christians and have a 100 pairs of shoes. You have made your choice in belief; let your beliefs stand by virtue of their own values instead of in comparison to your perceptions of another religion's values (begs the question: can your religion stand on its own without Christianity to be a comparison?).
To me, this is clearly the point where we "agree to disagree".
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Its all a question of priorities and what is your "god". Many Christians have "gods" that they place before GOD and don't even know it. What has control of your life? I would submit that there is your "god". Smoking, drinking, gambling, wealth (and its acquisition), INTERNET, food, bodybuilding,...........the list goes on. If ANYTHING OTHER THAN GOD runs your life, then as a Christian you have a problem. That's not to say that work of any kind is evil, but you gotta know what wins out when push comes to shove.
I agree with this.
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Count, I am not going to defend someone who is a self-proclaimed Christian yet lives an un-Christian life. I doubt most Christians would. You are making this a "you vs Christians" argument, but you are characterizing all Christians by the few conversations you have had with some ladies who say they are really good Christians and have a 100 pairs of shoes. You have made your choice in belief; let your beliefs stand by virtue of their own values instead of in comparison to your perceptions of another religion's values (begs the question: can your religion stand on its own without Christianity to be a comparison?).
To me, this is clearly the point where we "agree to disagree".
Well, it is more than a few conversations. I was in depth in the christian community locally for a few years and obviously crossed paths with quite a large number of christians. I don't think my experiences were exceptions and I don't believe the people I met were the minority.
I mean, it is the reason I am where I am.
I do know there are good christians out there, alot of them. But humanity is a big sea and sometimes alot is far less than it would appear.
Satanism is humanism. The principles were practiced unknowingly since the beggining of time. Religion was created by man, when they wanted (needed) more.
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We are all sinners,that is why Jesus had to save us!!!!! WE all do things wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone of us!!!!!!!! We then ask the Lord to help us then guide us to do things the way he wants us to do them!!!!! God puts certain people in certain places for a reason!!!!! You can be sucessful and be a Christian but as soon as you start putting these things before your faith you can have them taken away as quickly as they came. Christians make mistakes and sin every single minute of the day we are not perfect. We are supposed to learn from our mistakes and be open to Gods instructions. God speaks in different ways not just conventional talking with a voice.
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The biggest misunderstanding of chirstianity since Christ was that in order to be a faithful christian you have to go to church on sundays, not say swear words, fast, and so on... While in actual fact its the soul one should care about, not the body - that was christ's central message.
One can go to church every sunday, fast, etc, etc...But if in his heart he has envy, hate, fear, and condemnation of people who don't live the same life style - then he's so-called christianity is a fake!
On the other hand, someone who, say, never goes to church, takes roids, trains, and dates different women, but at the same time is honest, responsible, kind, and strives to be free from prejudice - then he is 100 time more a christian than the first guy.
One should really must differentiate between rituals (e.g. church) and ture faith (the philosophy of the teachings of the Christ).
My opinion only, no offence to anyone.
Good post