Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: mdgkmg on December 23, 2006, 10:54:54 AM
-
i problably seem annoying but i'd rather ask the few questions i have than take a guess at em myself. my back is quite thick it just ain't so wide. what are good excersises to add width to the back?
-
-Chins or pullups and/or pulldowns would be no. 1. For pulldowns to be comparable to chins/pullups, use heavy weight and *do not* lean backwards while pulling down. It's ok to cheat to get the weight moving, but keep the back straight, stay seated straight up not leaning back.
-Pullovers
Best back development includes at least 1 exercise from each food group, your choice of exercise from each:
-Pullups/pulldowns
-Pullovers
-Rows
-
you forgot deadlifts
-
you forgot deadlifts
No i didn't. They're not particularly necessary, especially if doing other fundamentals like squats. Can do hyper-extensions for high reps, or deads for high reps, no need to go heavy and risk injury with heavy deads! Plus deads are a lower back move, nothing to do with a wider back.
-
No i didn't. They're not particularly necessary, especially if doing other fundamentals like squats. Cant also hyper-extensions. Either of those is far less risky re: potential injury. Plus deads are a lower back move, nothing to do with a wider back.
OMG HOW COULD U FORGET COMPOUND MOVEMENT LIKE DEADS THAT HITS EVERY PART OF YOUR BODY FULLY AND EQUALLY?
Deadlifts for big biceps!! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
On a serious note, I completley agree with what pumpster has mentioned in this thread, though I would like to hear more about the style of pullovers he prefers.
-
On a serious note, I completley agree with what pumpster has mentioned in this thread, though I would like to hear more about the style of pullovers he prefers.
The best are machine pullovers on a good machine, because (1) there's constant tension and (2) the other muscles indirectly involved using free weights are taken out of the equation.
If you don't have access to a machine pullover, the two best alternatives in order of effectiveness:
1/ Connect ab straps to either (1) a chin bar or (2) a pulley. On the chin bar, just pull up using the elbows. Attached to a high pulley, pull down using elbows, while seated. Using a low or medium height pulley, lie on a bench and pull in similar fashion. Very effective, very similar to machine pullovers.
2/ Standard pullovers, but (1) using a low or medium height pulley while lying down, and using a triangle or rope cable attachment, (2) high pulley while seated using triangle or rope cable attachment, or (3) using free weights, both hands around the end of one dumbbell or using a hammer bar, lying on a decline.
-
it always makes me laugh when guys chime in with the whole deadlifts crap for building width, how on earth are deads going to build width? like Pumpster said they're unnecesary for width, do chins or pulldowns and pullovers, deads will build some thickness in the muscles around the spine and some trap thickness but not much width.
-
Of course we all know that DL's will build a massive, thick and WIDE back if the potential and body structure for a extra WIDE and thick back is there. And we all also know doing pullovers, pull downs, chins, etc will not build an extra Wide and thick back if the potential and body structure is not present. We can always improve to our own highest genetic advantage, but we again are limited to what we were born with.
Those converted ab straps work best when used on a sitting floor pulley machine. There are real lat/chin straps out there that were designed for better elbow placement for chins and pulley work. The ab straps are a a poor second choice with regards to lat work. Not even close to machine pullovers. Nautilus machines are still one of the better pullover type machine, with it's three stage cam action. Good Luck.
-
Those converted ab straps work best when used on a sitting floor pulley machine. There are real lat/chin straps out there that were designed for better elbow placement for chins and pulley work. The ab straps are a a poor second choice with regards to lat work. Not even close to machine pullovers. Nautilus machines are still one of the better pullover type machine, with it's three stage cam action. Good Luck.
Standard ab straps work beautifully. Similar feel to machine pullovers, including those i've done on the classic pullover machine, the earlier Nautilus pullover. In fact, in some ways they're better in that the ROM isn't fixed as it is on machines.
"Real" lat straps are a custom thing, twice the price and are basically ab straps. Plus those specialized straps are very uncommon, rarely if ever available in gyms, so the idea's moot. Standard ab straps hit the lats very very well.
http://www.maxcontraction.com/straps.htm
-
The Pumpster is incorrect. Of course, wishing for thing to be true is not the best avenue to take with regards to serious training. Good Luck.
-
JPM desperate once again to add something that hasn't already been said, is suggesting something very very similar to ab straps that is obscure, almost entirely unavailable at gyms and that is twice the cost, when something like ab straps are ubiquitous/ common and accessible at gyms. This is (another) bald, failed attempt at one-upsmanship from someone with nothing original to add himself. ;D Sadly, it's a childish, predictable trend by now.
Here are the straps that are marketed as "lat" straps, at twice the price. Impossible to find at a gym & virtually identical to ab straps. They would love to find more suckers customers like JPM who claim there's a difference:
http://www.maxcontraction.com/straps.htm
-
No i didn't. They're not particularly necessary, especially if doing other fundamentals like squats. Can do hyper-extensions for high reps, or deads for high reps, no need to go heavy and risk injury with heavy deads! Plus deads are a lower back move, nothing to do with a wider back.
your talking out of your ass....deads put more width on my back than any other movement. and i know lots of people who say the same.
and please you dont need to write an essay as an answer.
as for cumfather: do what you want, but i know what has worked for me and thats enough for me.
-
your talking out of your ass....deads put more width on my back than any other movement. and i know lots of people who say the same.
and please you dont need to write an essay as an answer.
as for cumfather: do what you want, but i know what has worked for me and thats enough for me.
If deads put more size on than any other movement, it shows that you were doing shit with the rest of your back work. Learn what to do here, and you'll be less of a "slave" to your preconceptions. ;)
Do some heavy deads for me next workout and post when you can from the hospital. ;D
-
If deads put more size on than any other movement, it shows that you were doing shit with the rest of your back work. Learn what to do here, and you'll be less of a "slave" to your preconceptions. ;)
thank you. you was correct and i was wrong. deads suck. they just add mass to the trapz and lower back. very dangerous movement. mdgkmg, my advice to you must be to do deadlifts.
-
thank you. you was correct and i was wrong. deads suck. they just add mass to the trapz and lower back. very dangerous movement. mdgkmg, my advice to you must be to do deadlifts.
Deads are ok but the cost-benefit is low relative to other back exercises. If they have to be done use high reps with moderate weight, high-rep weighted hypers or rely on lower back benefits from squats.
-
Cost-benefit of deads is low relative to other back exercises. If they have to be done use high reps, moderate weight, use high-rep hypers or rely on lower back stimulation from squats.
first of all i didnt say you gotta use maximal poundages in my post, i just said that deadlifts do add width to the back, also i recommend doing the deadlifts "bodybuilding style" ..like dorian does in his movie.
-
first of all i didnt say you gotta use maximal poundages in my post, i just said that deadlifts do add width to the back, also i recommend doing the deadlifts "bodybuilding style" ..like dorian does in his movie.
Now you've elaborated on what was an unclear and very general, not to mention hostile, initial post.
Deads are fine, but nothing you've said so far disproves the idea that the same or better can be achieved by other means.
-
Now you've elaborated on what was an unclear and very general, not to mention hostile, initial post.
Deads are fine, but nothing you've said so far disproves the idea that the same or better can be achieved by other means.
well im not trying to prove anything just said (in my initial post in this thread) that you forgot deadlifts from your original list as it does add width to the back. also nothing you written proves anything either. its what happens in the gym that counts.
-
mmm
chins.... lots of them...
.. and finish your workout with .. 4 sets of machine pullovers which i find hits the lats more than dumbell pullocers which i do on chest day....
also stretch your lats a la culter between ever set you do on back day
-
well im not trying to prove anything just said (in my initial post in this thread) that you forgot deadlifts from your original list as it does add width to the back. also nothing you written proves anything either. its what happens in the gym that counts.
I smell GED-i already said that i deliberately left deads out, do you have trouble reading? And you're right, everything i and others have said is "meaningless", because you're obsessed with deads. ::)
-
The best are machine pullovers on a good machine, because (1) there's constant tension and (2) the other muscles indirectly involved using free weights are taken out of the equation.
If you don't have access to a machine pullover, the two best alternatives in order of effectiveness:
1/ Connect ab straps to either (1) a chin bar or (2) a pulley. On the chin bar, just pull up using the elbows. Attached to a high pulley, pull down using elbows, while seated. Using a low or medium height pulley, lie on a bench and pull in similar fashion. Very effective, very similar to machine pullovers.
2/ Standard pullovers, but (1) using a low or medium height pulley while lying down, and using a triangle or rope cable attachment, (2) high pulley while seated using triangle or rope cable attachment, or (3) using free weights, both hands around the end of one dumbbell or using a hammer bar, lying on a decline.
Thanks for the lengthy reply, I'll try out some of these. I'm especially keen on trying the pulley station alternative and the ab strap pullovers.
The ab strap variation reminded me of another exercise that I would like to add to this list....they're called Lat Shrugs.
The exercise is performed in the same position as the Ab Strap Pullover except the ROM is much shorter. When in that position, let the shoulders stretch, and then get back up to the same position using a shrugging motion of the shoulders. This exercise can also be performed using a lat pulldown bar.
I first heard of this exercise through Atrainer, a person who posts on the bodybuilding.com boards. A well respected member who has some good advice to give and definitely knows his shit very well.
Here is a better description of the exercise:
Originally Posted by ATrainer :
Sorry, I actually had written a description, but it got blanked, and I didn't have the time to write it again.
Hook the ab straps securely on a lat bar. Slide into the straps with them up against your armpits. Grab the straps with your hands, making sure your upper arm is parallel to the floor (to insure the straps are comfortably even on your tricep.) lide into the lat station seat, with your hips tight against the thigh restraint, and your knees under your feet (to insure you don't slide out of the seat.
To perform the movement, you allow your shoulders to elevate up to your ears. That is a stretch. Now shrug your shoulders down. The movement is exactly opposite a trap shrug. Don't pull down with your elbows or hands. Just shrug downward with your armpit. As you near the bottom, push your chest the opposite direction toward the bar. That will reward you with a tighter lat squeeze than you've probably felt before. At least that is what 99% of the people I show this to say.
By excluding the weaker biceps, and anchoring the resistance at the lat attachment, you will be able to effectively isolate the powerful lats. You should be able to use over 40% more resistance than a lat pull-down. The results of this exercise when performed properly are quickly noticeable. I've put good 'V's on many older female clients with this one.
Here are pics of the motion being performed on a dip stand, though to me it looks more like the pullover motion u describe and not so much a Lat shrugging motion.
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=238816&d=1127873621)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=238817&d=1127873632)
-
.
Here is a better description of the exercise:
Here are pics of the motion being performed on a dip stand, though to me it looks more like the pullover motion u describe and not so much a Lat shrugging motion.
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=238816&d=1127873621)
(http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=238817&d=1127873632)
Looks like it would be effective and worth trying, an isolation move similarly intense as pullovers but with the arms travelling down by the sides of the body vs. with the arms & elbows pointing forward while pulling down in pullovers.
Given the bodyweight and leverage, would have to be well warmed-up and careful to do this slowly so as to avoid injury but very good if done under control i'll bet. There was actually a Nautilus machine that used that highly effective motion.
-
Here's a 70s Nautilus machine with a similar ROM to the dips shown above. It's similar but different to pullovers. Both exercises isolate the lats in ways that most compound lat exercises don't.
-
I smell GED-i already said that i deliberately left deads out, do you have trouble reading? And you're right, everything i and others have said is "meaningless", because you're obsessed with deads. ::)
lol yeah i think deadlifts should be on the list as it does add width, but its not like you cant do several things at the same time dohhhhh ;D
-
pull ups and pull downs, use straps and keep hands open, isolate and contract the lats
-
so if you decdied to deload and hold off on deads for a week, what would be a solid mass producing routine?
tbar
dbell row/str8 bar
lat pull wide
pullovers?
3x8?
-
that will work..you doing back once a week?
-
no twice, but I'm in pct and really dont want to overtrain.....do you have a solid routine? Maybe I should hit em last?
-
na that back routine looks solid, it doesnt have to be complicated, just make sure you dont lower your weights just because you expect to get weaker due to PCT. you can maybe split that workout in two and do one half on one day and the other half on another but it depends on if you feel fresh or not. backing off from the deads is a good idea if you been doing em heavy for many weeks straight.
-
tbar- 1 warm - 3 x8
dbell row - 4x6
lat pull wide - 3x8
pullovers? 3x10-12
rope seated rows to face - 3x10
-
so if you decdied to deload and hold off on deads for a week, what would be a solid mass producing routine?
tbar
dbell row/str8 bar
lat pull wide
pullovers?
3x8?
That's about right, can be done 2-3 times a week. 3 x 8 sounds good. Can remove one of the two row exercises if desired, it's not necessary to do 2 versions of any similar movement each workout unless it's perceived to make a difference. Just about right as long as the intensity is high on each set.
-
tbar- 1 warm - 3 x8
dbell row - 4x6
lat pull wide - 3x8
pullovers? 3x10-12
rope seated rows to face - 3x10
ill give this a go tonight.......then 6 sets bis and done
-
tbar- 1 warm - 3 x8
dbell row - 4x6
lat pull wide - 3x8
pullovers? 3x10-12
rope seated rows to face - 3x10
ill give this a go tonight.......then 6 sets bis and done
Now the routine's even further skewed towards rows (10/16 sets), for no perceptible reason..plus the volume's drifted onto the high side, compromising intensity. Which is fine if volume training's the goal, but is a departure from the original plan, that was already solid.
-
lets try..........
tbar- 1 warm - 3 x6-8
dbell row - 3x6-8
lat pull wide - 3x8
pullovers 3x10-12
rope seated rows to face - 1x10
ill give this a go tonight.......then 6 sets bis and done
-
HMMMM??? Pct and you don't know how to build your back. I don't have anything against roids, (i plan on doing my first cycle soon) but you really should know how to workout.
-
any kind of rowing movements (bent over, dumbell-row, T-Bar, low cable-row) & Chin-ups. and heavy close grip pulldowns.....
There are so many efficient exercises for build a wider and bigger and better back....but itīs simply only hard work & and it takes time, long time...
to be honest.
(i`m close to 44 now and training "just for myself" for nearly 26 years now...)
2 days ago 3rd and last back exercise (260 lbs + 145 dumbell)
-
it always makes me laugh when guys chime in with the whole deadlifts crap for building width, how on earth are deads going to build width? like Pumpster said they're unnecesary for width, do chins or pulldowns and pullovers, deads will build some thickness in the muscles around the spine and some trap thickness but not much width.
QFT. If you want width, go wider in your pulling exercises to the point you can still feel your lats working. Genetics plays a big role in everything. People just fail to admit it most of the time. Stick with exercises you KNOW work your back well and stay away from bullshit exercises and information. I used to have width problems until I stopped lifting like a sissy and put some effort into it. Your back will grow when your balls do.
-
any kind of rowing movements (bent over, dumbell-row, T-Bar, low cable-row) & Chin-ups. and heavy close grip pulldowns.....
There are so many efficient exercises for build a wider and bigger and better back....but itīs simply only hard work & and it takes time, long time...
to be honest.
(i`m close to 44 now and training "just for myself" for nearly 26 years now...)
2 days ago 3rd and last back exercise (260 lbs + 145 dumbell)
very wide :o
-
any kind of rowing movements (bent over, dumbell-row, T-Bar, low cable-row) & Chin-ups. and heavy close grip pulldowns.....
There are so many efficient exercises for build a wider and bigger and better back....but itīs simply only hard work & and it takes time, long time...
to be honest.
(i`m close to 44 now and training "just for myself" for nearly 26 years now...)
2 days ago 3rd and last back exercise (260 lbs + 145 dumbell)
THAT is awesome work and dedication. :o I'd like to see the currect workout of this guy though. If he's asking about a wider back and using 60lb dumbbells for dumbbell rows or can't perform a bent over barbell row, it's going to take some work.
-
Good back workout:
Chins behind neck / Lat pulldown behind neck - 1 x WU, 3 x 12/10/8
Bentover row - 1 x WU, 3 x 12/10/8
Seated close grip row - 3 x 8
Pullovers - 3 x 10
Deadlifts - 3 x 12
I prefer chins behind the neck to isolate the outer lats more, I don't usually do one-arm dumbell rows cos I tend to feel them in my rear delts, and I always do deadlifts cos nothing gets the traps sore like heavy deads. I know some people reckon they're only good for injuries, but that can be said for dozens of exercises. Do them with good form and don't let your ego load the bar.
-
i stop any "behind the neck" exercises 5-6 Years ago, because in the long run they damage almost every
intense training-guys rotator cuff.
when people progress in strength, the risk of injuring the rotator cuff will increase. So be carefull with that exercises (good warm up, good form, maybe not going as deep as it could go...stop 1-2 inch before that point)
-
QFT. If you want width, go wider in your pulling exercises to the point you can still feel your lats working. Genetics plays a big role in everything. People just fail to admit it most of the time. Stick with exercises you KNOW work your back well and stay away from bullshit exercises and information. I used to have width problems until I stopped lifting like a sissy and put some effort into it. Your back will grow when your balls do.
Agree with almost everything, except the grip width. It's not necessarily true that a wide grip's needed or even as good as other alternatives such as medium or close grip V-bar on either chins, pulldowns or rows. Arthur Jones mentioned for example, that medium-grip pulldowns were as good or better than wide-grips, in his opinion. Try each, determine where it's hitting the muscles and which is most effective.
Behind the neck pulldowns have fallen out of favor but are still worth doing because they hit the lats differently. Just keep the reps moderate, don't go too heavy plus don't do the bottom part of the ROM. Same thing applies to behind the neck presses.
-
You're right bud. Use the grip that fits YOU best. The worst thing people can do in the gym is do what everyone else is doing! we're not all the same..adjust the machines and exercises to you. Two of the biggest guys in the gym usually, me included, do our t-bar rows standing almost straight up but that angle hits my back perfectly without much lowerback stress or having to worry about form issues. Our backs are both equally wide. Adjust it to yourself. ALSO, don't go doing the same kind of exercise all the time. Do different variations and grips EACH back training session. This insures you hit all of the muscle groups of the back. Yes, I said muscle groups. Your back isn't just one big slab of meat. It's lots of accessory muscles and groups that make up one big group. the body builder with the last name of stubbs...not sure what his first name is, joe or something, has the best back I've ever seen and his back training advice is spot on! This shouldn't be applied to just your back but every muscle group in general.
-
Yes...experiment, experiment, experiment as widely as possible with every possible option, then keeps what works. Don't worry about what books or mags say, just pay attention to how it affects you... :o
-
good advice pumpster
-
I usually do 3 sets of weighted pullups doing between 8 and 12 reps. Every once in a while I will do a rep out set of 30 or so to shock the muscles. Then dumbell rows for 3 sets. I have found it very helpfull to grow my back to use straps when holding the dumbells this way I can go much heavier and still grip the wieght. I think they would be worth buying if you dont already have some. Ill then alternate some other exerseze for 3 more sets.
-
Squadfather...
deads DO build width, you do understand that they build width from the side angles right? Thats what some people mean by width, the side chest and side tri poses will look "wider" because deads bring out the erectors giving you the illusion of having "width". from the rear shots you will look like your back is Deep. Some people get this confused.
-
DL's will build wide lat's if you have the potential and upper body structure (genetics) for width. Check out some of the PL'ers for thick and very wide backs. And DL'ing is their prime back movement.
Medium to close grip pull exercises tend to hit the major mass of the lat's/back more so than a wide to extra wide grip. Though with that wide grip, you will get a different angle on the stretch. Which can have an influence of lat growth. Another related example would be the SLDL, which does not involve any director full muscle contraction of the ham's. But does allow a good ham stretch and growth. Wide grip stretching and pulls (for example) may be good for some. BB/DB pullovers, though mostly narrow/medium gripped, give a combination of a full stretch and full muscle contraction. One of the reasons it's can be a major lat exercise. If a pullover machine is in your gym (preferred where the elbows are on pad's, leading the exercise) than you might consider that as a must do movement for the lat's.
Any complete back/lats workout should include a overhead pull (like chins, lat pulldowns, etc). A out front of the body pull to the chest/abs (BB rows, sitting cable pull, etc). And a upwards pulling motion (like up-right rows, cleans, Hi-Pulls, shrugs, etc). In the DL ,the upper body (including grip) is keeping the BB stable and in line, where the actually lifting is done by the legs & hips/lower back. Which may suggest the important of semi static holds for development and strength in anyone's baclk program.
My current back programs, as of yesterday:
1. Chins..weighted, drop set..medium hammer grip
7 reps..drop weight
5 reps..drop weight
4 reps..drop weight
3 reps..drop weight
6 reps final set with just bwt.
Just one set of this drop set style
2. DB row..alternate...Elbows wide and out
hits the rear delts very well also ...one set of 7-12 reps
3. Hi-Pull... DB
two sets..first set full range, second set half way up...7-12 reps
4. BB shrug on rack..12-20 reps..one set
5. SLDL....no deeper than the 45's allow..12-20 reps...one set
6. Pullover..DB,bent arm...10-18 reps..1 or 2 sets
Good Luck.
-
DL's will build wide lat's if you have the potential and upper body structure (genetics) for width. Check out some of the PL'ers for thick and very wide backs. And DL'ing is their prime back movement.
Medium to close grip pull exercises tend to hit the major mass of the lat's/back more so than a wide to extra wide grip. Though with that wide grip, you will get a different angle on the stretch. Which can have an influence of lat growth. Another related example would be the SLDL, which does not involve any director full muscle contraction of the ham's. But does allow a good ham stretch and growth. Wide grip stretching and pulls (for example) may be good for some. BB/DB pullovers, though mostly narrow/medium gripped, give a combination of a full stretch and full muscle contraction. One of the reasons it's can be a major lat exercise. If a pullover machine is in your gym (preferred where the elbows are on pad's, leading the exercise) than you might consider that as a must do movement for the lat's.
Any complete back/lats workout should include a overhead pull (like chins, lat pulldowns, etc). A out front of the body pull to the chest/abs (BB rows, sitting cable pull, etc). And a upwards pulling motion (like up-right rows, cleans, Hi-Pulls, shrugs, etc). In the DL ,the upper body (including grip) is keeping the BB stable and in line, where the actually lifting is done by the legs & hips/lower back. Which may suggest the important of semi static holds for development and strength in anyone's baclk program.
My current back programs, as of yesterday:
1. Chins..weighted, drop set..medium hammer grip
7 reps..drop weight
5 reps..drop weight
4 reps..drop weight
3 reps..drop weight
6 reps final set with just bwt.
Just one set of this drop set style
2. DB row..alternate...Elbows wide and out
hits the rear delts very well also ...one set of 7-12 reps
3. Hi-Pull... DB
two sets..first set full range, second set half way up...7-12 reps
4. BB shrug on rack..12-20 reps..one set
5. SLDL....no deeper than the 45's allow..12-20 reps...one set
6. Pullover..DB,bent arm...10-18 reps..1 or 2 sets
Good Luck.
Great program writeup thought I don't feel like there's enough "power" movements in that routine. seems almost devoid of something. Id' replace the shrugs with bent over barbell rows since the traps would get hit in deads anyway and throughout most of your typical back movements.
-
TWT: Do not be mislead by the higher rep's or only, at best , one or two sets a exercise. SLDL's for example. I'll take a weight that I normally knock out 10 reps or so, usually stopping at least one rep before failure. But with this style of workout, I try for 18-20 reps with the same weight when doing the 10 reps. Taking extra deep breaths between reps and gearing my self for the long haul of reaching higher reps. When I do reach a final 20th rep I'm pretty well fried. This will be the only time I will go to a point of complete failure, on this type of training.This can be just as much a mental discipline effort as it is a physical one. No need to do another set after that one. This type of workout can put a demand on the body to adapt to become stronger and larger in muscle mass. It will also greatly improvement the stamina (endurance+strength). On this short program I treat the shrugs and pullovers in the same matter.
Those drop set chins can also be very demanding and are considered power movements. DB rows and hi-pulls fall into the same class when mental focus, and a respectable amount of weight, is attempted. To my way of thinking this would be called training with serious intent. Good Luck.
-
chins chins chins
i begin and end with them..
dumbell rows as well.. give width
-
chins chins chins
i begin and end with them..
barbell rows as well.. give width
-
[/quot
come back when your weigh more than 150lbs
also barbell or db rows doesnt matter its not like you have to do only one kind of row.
-
Weighing 255 and still doing weighted chins.
Without I'm able to do sets off over 12. Got nothing to do with how much you weigh. Just keep trying.
-
Weighing 255 and still doing weighted chins.
Without I'm able to do sets off over 12. Got nothing to do with how much you weigh. Just keep trying.
umm you totally misunderstood me..i was talking to lugar and wasnt talking about chins...
of course chins is a good exercise.
-
[/quot
come back when your weigh more than 150lbs
also barbell or db rows doesnt matter its not like you have to do only one kind of row.
go ahead and slam me, but ask around first....question was a awider back....barbell rows and you DONT NEED 22 different rows......my weight plays no role in my knowledge
-
go ahead and slam me, but ask around first....question was a awider back....barbell rows and you DONT NEED 22 different rows......my weight plays no role in my knowledge
of course you dont need to do 22 different rows..that wasnt my point..my point was that barbell rows arent better than db rows...db rows arent better than barbell rows either..its about preference both will build your back.
in fact you could do hammer rows instead of barbell or db rows..would probably work as well...but it gets boring doing the same exercises all the time..so you vary the training. should vary the training for the muscle building process too)
-
Does is it get boring? Yes. Do you need variety? Yes. Does one build a back better than the other, why don't you take a toll....100-1 says you'll hear more barbell........
-
Does is it get boring? Yes. Do you need variety? Yes. Does one build a back better than the other, why don't you take a toll....100-1 says you'll hear more barbell........
By no means are barbell rows the holy grail if that's what you mean. T-bars, 1-arm DB, hammer rows can all be as good or IMO better, in terms of muscle stimulation, lower stress on the body and lower fatigue.
-
By no means are barbell rows the holy grail if that's what you mean. T-bars, 1-arm DB, hammer rows can all be as good or IMO better, in terms of muscle stimulation, lower stress on the body and lower fatigue.
agreed, and it has alot to do with what equipment you have and personal preference.
-
For a wider back chins and pulldown movements are good...... pullover machines as well...... Chins are the best excercise for width in my opinion..... Unlike pumpster I do believe that barbell rows and deads are essential for back development ( no offence pump you know your shit just speaking from experience)
-
For a wider back chins and pulldown movements are good...... pullover machines as well...... Chins are the best excercise for width in my opinion..... Unlike pumpster I do believe that barbell rows and deads are essential for back development ( no offence pump you know your shit just speaking from experience)
I think you've confused me with someone else here. I don't care for either BB rows or deads.
-
I think you've confused me with someone else here. I don't care for either BB rows or deads.
I think you misinterpreted my post.... what I was trying to say is I do find those exercises essential but I also respect your opinion on training as you seem very knowledgable
-
barbell rows give thickness .. dumbell rows give width
-
Any complete back/lats workout should include a overhead pull (like chins, lat pulldowns, etc). A out front of the body pull to the chest/abs (BB rows, sitting cable pull, etc). And a upwards pulling motion (like up-right rows, cleans, Hi-Pulls, shrugs, etc). In the DL ,the upper body (including grip) is keeping the BB stable and in line, where the actually lifting is done by the legs & hips/lower back. Which may suggest the important of semi static holds for development and strength in anyone's baclk program.
Sound logic here. Same for Chest/pushes: Push Up (incline) Push out (flat) Push Down (decline/dips)