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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Diesel1 on January 06, 2007, 05:05:50 PM
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ISRAEL has drawn up secret plans to destroy Iran’s uranium enrichment facilities with tactical nuclear weapons.
Two Israeli air force squadrons are training to blow up an Iranian facility using low-yield nuclear “bunker-busters”, according to several Israeli military sources.
The attack would be the first with nuclear weapons since 1945, when the United States dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Israeli weapons would each have a force equivalent to one-fifteenth of the Hiroshima bomb.
Under the plans, conventional laser-guided bombs would open “tunnels” into the targets. “Mini-nukes” would then immediately be fired into a plant at Natanz, exploding deep underground to reduce the risk of radioactive fallout.
“As soon as the green light is given, it will be one mission, one strike and the Iranian nuclear project will be demolished,” said one of the sources.
The plans, disclosed to The Sunday Times last week, have been prompted in part by the Israeli intelligence service Mossad’s assessment that Iran is on the verge of producing enough enriched uranium to make nuclear weapons within two years.
Israeli military commanders believe conventional strikes may no longer be enough to annihilate increasingly well-defended enrichment facilities. Several have been built beneath at least 70ft of concrete and rock. However, the nuclear-tipped bunker-busters would be used only if a conventional attack was ruled out and if the United States declined to intervene, senior sources said.
Israeli and American officials have met several times to consider military action. Military analysts said the disclosure of the plans could be intended to put pressure on Tehran to halt enrichment, cajole America into action or soften up world opinion in advance of an Israeli attack.
Some analysts warned that Iranian retaliation for such a strike could range from disruption of oil supplies to the West to terrorist attacks against Jewish targets around the world.
Israel has identified three prime targets south of Tehran which are believed to be involved in Iran’s nuclear programme:
Natanz, where thousands of centrifuges are being installed for uranium enrichment
A uranium conversion facility near Isfahan where, according to a statement by an Iranian vice-president last week, 250 tons of gas for the enrichment process have been stored in tunnels
A heavy water reactor at Arak, which may in future produce enough plutonium for a bomb Israeli officials believe that destroying all three sites would delay Iran’s nuclear programme indefinitely and prevent them from having to live in fear of a “second Holocaust”.
The Israeli government has warned repeatedly that it will never allow nuclear weapons to be made in Iran, whose president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, has declared that “Israel must be wiped off the map”.
Robert Gates, the new US defence secretary, has described military action against Iran as a “last resort”, leading Israeli officials to conclude that it will be left to them to strike.
Robert Gates, the new US defence secretary, has described military action against Iran as a “last resort”, leading Israeli officials to conclude that it will be left to them to strike.
Israeli pilots have flown to Gibraltar in recent weeks to train for the 2,000-mile round trip to the Iranian targets. Three possible routes have been mapped out, including one over Turkey.
Air force squadrons based at Hatzerim in the Negev desert and Tel Nof, south of Tel Aviv, have trained to use Israel’s tactical nuclear weapons on the mission. The preparations have been overseen by Major General Eliezer Shkedi, commander of the Israeli air force.
Sources close to the Pentagon said the United States was highly unlikely to give approval for tactical nuclear weapons to be used. One source said Israel would have to seek approval “after the event”, as it did when it crippled Iraq’s nuclear reactor at Osirak with airstrikes in 1981.
Scientists have calculated that although contamination from the bunker-busters could be limited, tons of radioactive uranium compounds would be released.
The Israelis believe that Iran’s retaliation would be constrained by fear of a second strike if it were to launch its Shehab-3 ballistic missiles at Israel.
However, American experts warned of repercussions, including widespread protests that could destabilise parts of the Islamic world friendly to the West.
Colonel Sam Gardiner, a Pentagon adviser, said Iran could try to close the Strait of Hormuz, the route for 20% of the world’s oil.
Some sources in Washington said they doubted if Israel would have the nerve to attack Iran. However, Dr Ephraim Sneh, the deputy Israeli defence minister, said last month: “The time is approaching when Israel and the international community will have to decide whether to take military action against Iran.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2535310_1,00.html
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A heavy water reactor at Arak, which may in future produce enough plutonium for a bomb Israeli officials believe that destroying all three sites would delay Iran’s nuclear programme indefinitely and prevent them from having to live in fear of a “second Holocaust”.
Oh brother! Seems like these assholes will milk the holocaust to the last drop and then some.
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This is retarded, Iran isn't going to nuke israel, the land and sites are important to muslims too. However, there is nothing in Iran that Israel gives a shit about...
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Doesn't ISR still officially deny they have nukes? LMAO...
fuccit. Let THEM do it. We've lost 3000 American lives already and it seems many of thhe countries that benefit from our middle east rough lovemaking (like ISR) haven't been chipping in on the drinks.
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Oh brother! Seems like these assholes will milk the holocaust to the last drop and then some.
Isreal nuking iran is due to the holocaust?
Defend this statement, I dare you.
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Isreal nuking iran is due to the holocaust?
Defend this statement, I dare you.
Oh Brother... Read the article, read his quote ::) They said they feared a second holocaust, he was commenting on that ;)
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Explain how they're going to "milk" the holocaust.
If similar said event would have happened to any other ethnic group the reaction would be the same.
The only difference is that Isreal actually has the capability to defend itself and stop something like that from happening again.
Thank god.
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Explain how they're going to "milk" the holocaust.
If similar said event would have happened to any other ethnic group the reaction would be the same.
The only difference is that Isreal actually has the capability to defend itself and stop something like that from happening again.
Thank god.
Do you think iran has the 1) will, 2) ability, and 3) lack of interference from the world, to conduct a second holocaust?
If any of these 3 items is missing, then ISR is using that card to elicit support for their pre-emptive strike of a non-aggressive neighbor just trying to get the same weapons ISR already owns.
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Do you think iran has the 1) will, 2) ability, and 3) lack of interference from the world, to conduct a second holocaust?
Will, yes. Ability, not yet. Lack of interference, considering we're 4 years into a war to stop a similar country form creating havoc and already nobody wants to keep going.... who knows. I doubt any country but us and GB would try to stop them. Besides Isreal of course.
If any of these 3 items is missing, then ISR is using that card to elicit support for their pre-emptive strike of a non-aggressive neighbor just trying to get the same weapons ISR already owns.
Non agressive,.... ah hahahahaha. right. Iranian leaders have called for the destruction of israel and "driving the jews into the sea". Not to mention the "war" they've been declaring on the west for 20 years.
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Explain how they're going to "milk" the holocaust.
If similar said event would have happened to any other ethnic group the reaction would be the same.
The only difference is that Isreal actually has the capability to defend itself and stop something like that from happening again.
Thank god.
That's easy, bringing fear of a second holocaust has the appearance of milking the first for sympathy to the cause that the second was mentioned in conjuntion with. It may not be so, it just looks that way to some when it's used this way so often.
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Iranian leaders have "called for" x, y, z for 20 years. but they haven't done shit. why is this?
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"we're 4 years into a war to stop a similar country form creating havoc and already nobody wants to keep going.... who knows. I doubt any country but us and GB would try to stop them."
We had 34 countries in our 1991 iraq coalition. Why? Cause iraq was invading a soverign nation. We had two polish slingshots and some canadian cannon fodder in 2003. Why? Cause Iraq did nothing but violate a paper law with zero victims.
If Iran invaded ISR, you would have 30 nations happy to help, and happy to cash in on iranian oil as ordered reparations ;)
Most of the world doesn't believe we are in Iraq "to stop a similar country form creating havoc".
Why is this?
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Iranian leaders have "called for" x, y, z for 20 years. but they haven't done shit. why is this?
Lack of ability.. but we all know that they're trying to get that ability.
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Lack of ability.. but we all know that they're trying to get that ability.
hitler did it without nukes. you're telling me the iranian air force and their monster troops, plus their nice big budget, sympathy from all directions, unlimited suicide bombers, and hez ready to flank them.... wouldn't fuck up israel if they wanted to?
They have the capability already. All a nuke would do is provide justification for nuke relatiation.
Truth is, the only time iran would detonate a nuke is IN tehran, as allied forces walked into town to start hanging people. :( And that is the only deterrent from making that baghdad II.
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"we're 4 years into a war to stop a similar country form creating havoc and already nobody wants to keep going.... who knows. I doubt any country but us and GB would try to stop them."
We had 34 countries in our 1991 iraq coalition. Why? Cause iraq was invading a soverign nation. We had two polish slingshots and some canadian cannon fodder in 2003. Why? Cause Iraq did nothing but violate a paper law with zero victims.
If Iran invaded ISR, you would have 30 nations happy to help, and happy to cash in on iranian oil as ordered reparations ;)
Most of the world doesn't believe we are in Iraq "to stop a similar country form creating havoc".
Why is this?
Most of the world is headed towards either a newer form of socialism or radical islam. Isreal should never have to depend on an increasingly hostile world to say if it is "okay" to defend itself or attack a country that, if able, would attempt to destroy it. now I'm not saying ISR should attack Iran tomorrow but if Iran continues down the road they're on we might see that happen.
We are in Iraq for our interests and the interests of stability in the region. If other EU countries don't want to play for the same reason France doesn't.. so be it. They don't make decisions based on the best interest of our country so why should we be beholden to them? Fuck em... do what we need to.
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hitler did it without nukes. you're telling me the iranian air force and their monster troops, plus their nice big budget, sympathy from all directions, unlimited suicide bombers, and hez ready to flank them.... wouldn't f**k up israel if they wanted to?
Isreal is about the 4th most powerful army in the world, so no.
They have the capability already. All a nuke would do is provide justification for nuke relatiation.
But then come multiple nukes at ISR, then what. Iran would kill they're defense mechanisms with multiple nukes. We had the same scenarios during the cold war.
Truth is, the only time iran would detonate a nuke is IN tehran, as allied forces walked into town to start hanging people. :( And that is the only deterrent from making that baghdad II.
Might be true (about iran at least). They're savages.
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my point is that if iran invaded ISR, even nations like saudi arabia would send jets and political pressure. they're in a sweet trading spot now - they would lose all that, and end up sanctioned like iraq was for 10 years, which starved millions and killed economic backbone.
The 1991 Coalition, who sided with US over Iraq -
The Allied coalition consisted of 34 countries, including Afghanistan, Argentina, Australia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Canada, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Honduras, Italy, Kuwait, Morocco, The Netherlands, guy, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Korea, Spain, Syria, Turkey, The United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom and the United States.
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my point is that if iran invaded ISR, even nations like saudi arabia would send jets and political pressure. they're in a sweet trading spot now - they would lose all that, and end up sanctioned like iraq was for 10 years, which starved millions and killed economic backbone.
Might be true might not. Not like it disuaded Saddam from knocking his shit off, did it?
The 1991 Coalition, who sided with US over Iraq -
The Allied coalition consisted of 34 countries, including Afghanistan, Argentina, Australia, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Canada, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Honduras, Italy, Kuwait, Morocco, The Netherlands, guy, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, South Korea, Spain, Syria, Turkey, The United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom and the United States.
Let's break that down by troop deployment, length of involvement and equipment and logistic support and see what kind of figures you see. I already know it... but how many of those countries are gonna really go to bat for Israel, the most hated nation in the region?
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Israel was the biggest mistake ever made.... That's not being anti-semitic either. This little episode is going to be teh death of us all ::)
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Israel was the biggest mistake ever made.... That's not being anti-semitic either. This little episode is going to be teh death of us all ::)
well, it's obvous you've done zero research on the subject.
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Brix, I get that you're into celebrating your heritage and that's cool. I'm proud of my german heritage, I don't go waiving a german flag around ::) but whatever... Specifically, why are you zionist?
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well, it's obvous you've done zero research on the subject.
ahahhahaahhaa.... bring it and lets see, I've spend more hours with this crap than 99percent of the people... I'm a goddamned zionist guru bubba ;)
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Brix, I get that you're into celebrating your heritage and that's cool. I'm proud of my german heritage, I don't go waiving a german flag around ::) but whatever... Specifically, why are you zionist?
Because Israel has a right to exist and it has nothing to do with the bible.
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ahahhahaahhaa.... bring it and lets see, I've spend more hours with this crap than 99percent of the people... I'm a goddamned zionist guru bubba ;)
What exactly do you take issue with?
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Brix, I get that you're into celebrating your heritage and that's cool. I'm proud of my german heritage, I don't go waiving a german flag around ::) but whatever... Specifically, why are you zionist?
I'm German too. ;D
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=116427.0;attach=132348;image)(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2118.0;attach=124066;image)(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=116427.0;attach=132348;image)
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I'm German too. ;D
You're a wannabe.
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You're a wannabe.
Wannabe German? No, my heritage actually is German.
You, however, seem to be a "wannabe zionist". ::)
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Wannabe German? No, my heritage actually is German.
You, however, seem to be a "wannabe zionist". ::)
wannabe nazi, moron.
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wannabe nazi, moron.
I'm not actually racist. I do however strongly dislike oversensitive PC-types and take perverse pleasure in pissing them off.
Hope this helps, "moron". :D
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I'm not actually racist. I do however strongly dislike oversensitive PC-types and take perverse pleasure in pissing them off.
Hope this helps, "moron". :D
Dude, I'm racist, my friends are racist... I'm no where near a PC type. But if you're gonna take an anti-israel position on here with the shit you have on your avatar then don't go wondering why anything might think you're a nazi.
And since you used to have 14/88 on here knowing full well almost no one knew what it meant, I think you're probably pretty far into the scene to claim you're not racist. Am I right?
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I'm German too. ;D
no, you're an idiot from idiotland translated to English, "Houston"
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Because Israel has a right to exist and it has nothing to do with the bible.
That's the answer of an idiot who listens to neocon pudits... I thought you were a jewish zionist? I'm starting to get the feeling this is more of a, "your mom told you that you're 1/16th jewish and you think celebrating Israel is celebrating your heritage" thing....
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That's the answer of an idiot who listens to neocon pudits... I thought you were a jewish zionist? I'm starting to get the feeling this is more of a, "you're mom told you that you're 1/16th jewish and you think celebrating Israel is celebrating your heritage" thing....
this is the same guy that thinks Israel is completely right in whatever it does and palestinians are always wrong in what they do. No, like literally... its pretty insane.
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What exactly do you take issue with?
Almost every aspect, not the people, the policy of zionism. For their to be peace, zionism has to be gone, it can not happen ever and will lead to our destruction before it ever leads to peace . It's a mistake that could very well get us all dead. I could go dozens of directions with this question. I could write a post so long not a single person would read it. Not all jews are zionist, you should spend some time trying to understand why so many from the time of it's conception until now are not zionist... These people are not traitor to their heritage ;) Be carefule, there are answers that you'll find disturbing, answers that'll rip you right from your compfort zone of understanding...
a little history on the anti-zionist jewish movement: http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
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That's the answer of an idiot who listens to neocon pudits... I thought you were a jewish zionist? I'm starting to get the feeling this is more of a, "you're mom told you that you're 1/16th jewish and you think celebrating Israel is celebrating your heritage" thing....
Wow... you seem to get dumber with every statement.
I am a zionist in that I believe Jews return to Israel is Gods plan. But I am also a conservative who understands that Israels right to exist has nothing to do with a religious return by all jews. I am technically 1/2 but my mother converted when she married.
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this is the same guy that thinks Israel is completely right in whatever it does and palestinians are always wrong in what they do. No, like literally... its pretty insane.
What has Israel done wrong? They invaded Lebanon in response to Hezbulluhs kidnapping. They control the country.
And Israel never targets civilians. They target terrorists who deliberately surround themselves with civilians. PL's specifically target Israeli civilians.
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Almost every aspect, not the people, the policy of zionism. For their to be peace, zionism has to be gone, it can not happen ever and will lead to our destruction before it ever leads to peace . It's a mistake that could very well get us all dead. I could go dozens of directions with this question. I could write a post so long not a single person would read it. Not all jews are zionist, you should spend some time trying to understand why so many from the time of it's conception until now are not zionist... These people are not traitor to their heritage ;) Be carefule, there are answers that you'll find disturbing, answers that'll rip you right from your compfort zone of understanding...
a little history on the anti-zionist jewish movement: http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
That's the problem. Israels distruction is the ultimate goal amongst the Islamic countries, not peacable comprimise. Where as Israel is constantly giving in to terrorism and attempting to compromise for peace.
Nice website but like my arguement has nothing to do with a religious event but with Israels right to exist in the first place. I'm not arguing from religious stand point but from a conservative one.
I suggest you have a better arguement than "It will get us all dead."
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Almost every aspect, not the people, the policy of zionism. For their to be peace, zionism has to be gone, it can not happen ever and will lead to our destruction before it ever leads to peace . It's a mistake that could very well get us all dead. I could go dozens of directions with this question. I could write a post so long not a single person would read it. Not all jews are zionist, you should spend some time trying to understand why so many from the time of it's conception until now are not zionist... These people are not traitor to their heritage ;) Be carefule, there are answers that you'll find disturbing, answers that'll rip you right from your compfort zone of understanding...
a little history on the anti-zionist jewish movement: http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/
Zionism and the state of Israel have already happened.
Since Israel already exists the only way to remove Zionism is the destruction of Israel and the elimination of millions of Jews. That would turn out to be another holocaust and no Jew would allow this.
The only way to solve the impasse is to work towards as 2 state solution like the UN and the group of 5 have suggested. Many Muslim nations support this, Turkey, Jordan, Egypt and even Saudi Arabia.
If hard liners in Saudi Arabia can agree with a two state solution, why can't Syria, Lebanon, Hamas and their backer Iran support the two state solution.
Once Hamas recognizes Israel and moves towards a 2 state solution then the whole world would be better off.
You have to move away from your hate and work towards solutions.
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Who gives a fuck. The more dead sand nigs the better.
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Zionism and the state of Israel have already happened.
Stop right there... I don't need to go past this... First this was over my comment that zionism was a mistake. That Israel is done is done, that's right, that's not what this was about ;) I only commented about it being a mistake and I beleive that. But you're wrong, Zionism isn't done happening... It doesn't have to keep happening. And end to zionism does not have to mean an end to the Jews in that land.
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Stop right there... I don't need to go past this... First this was over my comment that zionism was a mistake. That Israel is done is done, that's right, that's not what this was about ;) I only commented about it being a mistake and I beleive that. But you're wrong, Zionism isn't done happening... It doesn't have to keep happening. And end to zionism does not have to mean an end to the Jews in that land.
If you are talking about establishment of Jerusalem as its capital, you should already know that America is ready to recognize it as fact as soon as Israel announces it.
This is the main bargaining point for a Palestine. I don't think either a Palestine state or the State of Israel should have its capital as Jerusalem. Or Both should have Jerusalem as its capital. The Jews with west Jerusalem (New Jerusalem) and the Palestinians with East Jerusalem (Old Jerusalem.)
The temple should not be rebuilt either. Or should be rebuilt with both Christian and Muslim input as they all worship the same God.
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That's the problem. Israels distruction is the ultimate goal amongst the Islamic countries, not peacable comprimise. Where as Israel is constantly giving in to terrorism and attempting to compromise for peace.
Nice website but like my arguement has nothing to do with a religious event but with Israels right to exist in the first place. I'm not arguing from religious stand point but from a conservative one.
I suggest you have a better arguement than "It will get us all dead."
it will get us all dead... Israel has said if they go down, they'll take out the world, that is launch against targets all over... Yup, if Israel is going down, they'll launch against cities that don't have anything to do with the fight. If that policy doesn't have the potential to get us all dead I don't know what does... And you better start considering the religious aspect to this all even if you don't believe it... It may not be important to you but because it is such requirment for understanding all this, it's pointless to attack this from a view of the neocon pudents redneck targeted propaganda.
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If you are talking about establishment of Jerusalem as its capital, you should already know that America is ready to recognize it as fact as soon as Israel announces it.
No... Joker, that's not what I'm talking about...
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it will get us all dead... Israel has said if they go down, they'll take out the world, that is launch against targets all over... Yup, if Israel is going down, they'll launch against cities that don't have anything to do with the fight. If that policy doesn't have the potential to get us all dead I don't know what does... And you better start considering the religious aspect to this all even if you don't believe it... It may not be important to you but because it is such requirment for understanding all this, it's pointless to attack this from a view of the neocon pudents redneck targeted propaganda.
Israel has every right to be angry and it's certainly understandable why it's hard for them to trust anyone. They do nothing wrong and merely try to stop the killing of thier wives and children in the street and pieces of shit like you hate them for it.
Funny Iran and most other radical islamic countries have been saying far worse declaring war on the west and showing support for "pushing Israel into the sea." And yet I don't see you in uproar about that. Classic liberal hypocrit.
Not only that considering how close Israel is always to being the victim of WW3 I would understand if ANY country in that position made that remark. But I also believe it was directed towards its Arab enemies in the region and not the world as a whole.
Your argument thus far is nothing but spite and liberal mantra... I'm still waiting for you to tell me why Israel is so bad and the PL's aren't.
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Israel has every right to be angry and it's certainly understandable why it's hard for them to trust anyone. They do nothing wrong and merely try to stop the killing of thier wives and children in the street and pieces of shit like you hate them for it.
Funny Iran and most other radical islamic countries have been saying far worse declaring war on the west and showing support for "pushing Israel into the sea." And yet I don't see you in uproar about that. Classic liberal hypocrit.
Not only that considering how close Israel is always to being the victim of WW3 I would understand if ANY country in that position made that remark. But I also believe it was directed towards its Arab enemies in the region and not the world as a whole.
Your argument thus far is nothing but spite and liberal mantra... I'm still waiting for you to tell me why Israel is so bad and the PL's aren't.
That's reason to kill everyone if it doesn't work out ::) It's not the right to survive or everyone gets it... ::) THAT'S TERRORISM DUDE... and shut up with the liberal montra crap you clueless nerd...
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it will get us all dead... Israel has said if they go down, they'll take out the world, that is launch against targets all over... Yup, if Israel is going down, they'll launch against cities that don't have anything to do with the fight. If that policy doesn't have the potential to get us all dead I don't know what does... And you better start considering the religious aspect to this all even if you don't believe it... It may not be important to you but because it is such requirment for understanding all this, it's pointless to attack this from a view of the neocon pudents redneck targeted propaganda.
Kind of Like Iraq launching missiles into Israel to try to escalate the war. :o
Israel will not let any nation that is bent on its demise become a credible threat, with or without the US.
The Israeli secret service killed a Canadian inventor that wanted was building a rail mounted super gun for Iraq pre Gulf War.
The Muslim world will have to deal with Israel because Israel isn't going anywhere.
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Kind of Like Iraq launching missiles into Israel to try to escalate the war. :o
Israel will not let any nation that is bent on its demise become a credible threat, with or without the US.
The Israeli secret service killed a Canadian inventor that wanted was building a rail mounted super gun for Iraq pre Gulf War.
The Muslim world will have to deal with Israel because Israel isn't going anywhere.
Yea, but not quite, more like if Iraq had nukes and said before they go down, they'll launch against everyone. Israel was talking about lauching against every European capital before they go down... That's terrorism, it says, you have one foreign policy choice, side with Israel because the alternative it death to everyone... I don't give that much of a crap about the arabs or about Iran. I can't describe myself as pro-arab, those guys do not represent what I consider to be good but Israel is definitely not peachy clean either they've done an amazing amount of underhanded crap in order to meet their goals...
The war game
We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother." I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.'
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1046411,00.html
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Yea, but not quite, more like if Iraq had nukes and said before they go down, they'll launch against everyone. Israel was talking about lauching against every European capital before they go down... That's terrorism, it says, you have one foreign policy choice, side with Israel because the alternative it death to everyone... I don't give that much of a crap about the arabs or about Iran. I can't describe myself as pro-arab, those guys do not represent what I consider to be good but Israel is definitely not peachy clean either they've done an amazing amount of underhanded crap in order to meet their goals...
The war game
We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother." I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.'
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1046411,00.html
There is no doubt that Israel and Zionist will do whatever it takes to meet their goals.
Active terrorism against the UK during the 1940's. Targeted Assassinations. Premeditated strikes, like their strikes on Iraq.
Knowing all of that, they will not be removed from the middle east and they will not dissolve their country.
That is why a 2 state solution is the only option. Bargains like this have happened before. Germany after World War 2 for example.
A deal could be made, but it would require more faith than either Israel or Palestine has right now.
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That's reason to kill everyone if it doesn't work out ::) It's not the right to survive or everyone gets it... ::) THAT'S TERRORISM DUDE... and shut up with the liberal montra crap you clueless nerd...
Care to explain your hypocrisy yet? I know... no one wants to be called a liberal.
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Wow... you seem to get dumber with every statement.
I am a zionist in that I believe Jews return to Israel is Gods plan. But I am also a conservative who understands that Israels right to exist has nothing to do with a religious return by all jews. I am technically 1/2 but my mother converted when she married.
i would have loved to see you talk this shit in Berlin in 1936.
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Wow... you seem to get dumber with every statement.
I am a zionist in that I believe Jews return to Israel is Gods plan. But I am also a conservative who understands that Israels right to exist has nothing to do with a religious return by all jews. I am technically 1/2 but my mother converted when she married.
Funny when how some Ethiopians tried to relocate to Israel in the 50's they were treated like shit, and still are probably till this day.
I stand by my statement of Israel milking the Holocaust to get what they want. Iran hasn't done shit, but made empty threats. They've tried diplomacy and the US and Israel have rejected that. Israel is the one who hasn't signed the UN Nuclear proliferation treaty and they're the one's making threats about nuclear strikes on basis that they don't a second Holocaust. ::)
What do you want Iran to do? Stop their enrichment program? That's pretty arrogant because you're telling them they can't advance their nation and better the lives of their people. You're taking the comments so seriously, seriously enough to consider all out war.
Tell me, has Iran made threats to attack Israel or the US? Haven't they tried diplomacy numerous times?
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Most of the world is headed towards either a newer form of socialism or radical islam. Isreal should never have to depend on an increasingly hostile world to say if it is "okay" to defend itself or attack a country that, if able, would attempt to destroy it. now I'm not saying ISR should attack Iran tomorrow but if Iran continues down the road they're on we might see that happen.
We are in Iraq for our interests and the interests of stability in the region. If other EU countries don't want to play for the same reason France doesn't.. so be it. They don't make decisions based on the best interest of our country so why should we be beholden to them? f**k em... do what we need to.
Your analysis of the global political situation is IMO incorrect.
There is more democracy today in the world than 30 years ago, or 20 years ago.
The problem is when we in the Western Civilization fails to deal with the Muslim world, and uses imperialistic approaches, perhaps out of old habit, instead of using diplomacy.
The Western Civilization have great relations with Saudi Arabia, despite them being Muslim Extremists, wahabbism being the islamic form used there. Why is that?
Could it be that the Western Civilization has always been forced to use diplomacy, because Saudi Arabia has such tremendous wealth?
Despite Saudi Arabia being Muslim extremists, they're still allies of the USA, and especially of the Bush family.
Slowly, women's rights are making progress in Saudi Arabia as well, BTW. A country where women have no right to vote, and other medieval traditions.
One more thing. Countries all around the world have nuclear plants. Why shouldn't Iran be allowed to have nuclear power?
The day you shut down all the nuclear plants in UK, in USA, in Sweden and the rest of the world, then I can definitely support sanctions against countries developing nuclear energy plants.
My suggestion would be to send European and US nuclear scientists to Iran and help them. Also, EU and USA should offer help in designing and building the power plants.
-Hedge
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Yea, but not quite, more like if Iraq had nukes and said before they go down, they'll launch against everyone. Israel was talking about lauching against every European capital before they go down... That's terrorism, it says, you have one foreign policy choice, side with Israel because the alternative it death to everyone... I don't give that much of a crap about the arabs or about Iran. I can't describe myself as pro-arab, those guys do not represent what I consider to be good but Israel is definitely not peachy clean either they've done an amazing amount of underhanded crap in order to meet their goals...
The war game
We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: "Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother." I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.'
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1046411,00.html
We've had military leaders say stupid things and yet everyone knows we're not gonna commit to anything like that. It's just a comment made to demonstrate capability. You're taking something seriously because you're too dumb to realize it's only a hypothetical. Not only that, even the united states has strategies and battle plans for taking out countries we consider our allies. But that's all they are. And they're there to ensure we prepared for anything. It's even more understandable for them since most of europe doesn't support israel and has regularly demonstrated a contempt for it.
But as long as we want to take everything too seriously why aren't you throwing a fit over the hundreds of far worse things that are said by iranian leaders, north korean leaders, and the like every year? Especially since they are also nuclear powers and ARE NOT allies.
I can't wait for THIS answer...
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i would have loved to see you talk this shit in Berlin in 1936.
who cares
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Because Israel has a right to exist and it has nothing to do with the bible.
So Palestinians should be subject to apartheid in their own land just because some eastern europeans felt bad after WWII?
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Care to explain your hypocrisy yet? I know... no one wants to be called a liberal.
I don't mind, I'm a liberal and Hugo Chavez is my father :P Care to explain your stupidity yet ;D Fargin ass, how am I a hypocrite ::)
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But as long as we want to take everything too seriously why aren't you throwing a fit over the hundreds of far worse things that are said by iranian leaders, north korean leaders, and the like every year? Especially since they are also nuclear powers and ARE NOT allies.
I can't wait for THIS answer...
Well, I guess because serious shit said by US leaders has been followed by things like the Iraq war and might lead to a third front in the so called "war on terror."
Iran's loony prez calling for the destruction of Israel was nothing more than propaganda.
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Funny when how some Ethiopians tried to relocate to Israel in the 50's they were treated like shit, and still are probably till this day.
I stand by my statement of Israel milking the Holocaust to get what they want. Iran hasn't done shit, but made empty threats. They've tried diplomacy and the US and Israel have rejected that. Israel is the one who hasn't signed the UN Nuclear proliferation treaty and they're the one's making threats about nuclear strikes on basis that they don't a second Holocaust. ::)
So the PL's, Iran, Syria, Hezbullah, and almost every other nation in the region hasn't been threatening Israel? I don't see any of them trying anywhere near the diplomacy Israel has been.
What do you want Iran to do? Stop their enrichment program? That's pretty arrogant because you're telling them they can't advance their nation and better the lives of their people. You're taking the comments so seriously, seriously enough to consider all out war.
Based on the demonstrated intensions of thier leaders, hell no we shouldn't let them enrich uranium.
Tell me, has Iran made threats to attack Israel or the US? Haven't they tried diplomacy numerous times?
So where have you been for the last 20 years? They threaten all the time. No they haven't tried diplomacy numerous time. They never put anything remotely reasonable on the table and they reject EVERY idea from our side.
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Zionism and the state of Israel have already happened.
Since Israel already exists the only way to remove Zionism is the destruction of Israel and the elimination of millions of Jews. That would turn out to be another holocaust and no Jew would allow this.
The only way to solve the impasse is to work towards as 2 state solution like the UN and the group of 5 have suggested. Many Muslim nations support this, Turkey, Jordan, Egypt and even Saudi Arabia.
If hard liners in Saudi Arabia can agree with a two state solution, why can't Syria, Lebanon, Hamas and their backer Iran support the two state solution.
Once Hamas recognizes Israel and moves towards a 2 state solution then the whole world would be better off.
You have to move away from your hate and work towards solutions.
a_joker, I agree with your assessment regarding the 2 state solution.
I think it's fair to ask Hamas to recognize Israel. But I also think it's fair to ask Israel to recognize Palestine. What do you think?
My main problem with the current plan of 2 states, is that it's not a 50/50 split. That is the only way it could be done.
A very fair question also, is why the Palestinians who lives in Palestine/Israel, have no right to vote?
Since they are such a big part of the population in Palestine/Israel, it is only fair that they are represented in the Knesset, the parliament of Israel.
-Hedge
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Your analysis of the global political situation is IMO incorrect.
There is more democracy today in the world than 30 years ago, or 20 years ago.
The problem is when we in the Western Civilization fails to deal with the Muslim world, and uses imperialistic approaches, perhaps out of old habit, instead of using diplomacy.
Most of that part of the world are difficult, almost impossible to deal with. Especially based on a history of disregarding the "rules" the world wants them to play by.
The Western Civilization have great relations with Saudi Arabia, despite them being Muslim Extremists, wahabbism being the islamic form used there. Why is that?
Money, oil, and maybe the fact that without those two Saudi Arabia is completely desolate.
Could it be that the Western Civilization has always been forced to use diplomacy, because Saudi Arabia has such tremendous wealth?
Despite Saudi Arabia being Muslim extremists, they're still allies of the USA, and especially of the Bush family.
Slowly, women's rights are making progress in Saudi Arabia as well, BTW. A country where women have no right to vote, and other medieval traditions.
Yeah I know right. They still throw women off of towers for disgracing thier family at the dinner table. But they were "asked" not to practice this right outside of our military bases.
One more thing. Countries all around the world have nuclear plants. Why shouldn't Iran be allowed to have nuclear power?
Because Iran is a radical Islamic country and it's history should speak for it's intensions.
The day you shut down all the nuclear plants in UK, in USA, in Sweden and the rest of the world, then I can definitely support sanctions against countries developing nuclear energy plants.
My suggestion would be to send European and US nuclear scientists to Iran and help them. Also, EU and USA should offer help in designing and building the power plants.
-Hedge
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So Palestinians should be subject to apartheid in their own land just because some eastern europeans felt bad after WWII?
Palastinians should make a REAL effort to stop the daily murder of Israeli civilians. They should actually accept a deal presented by the Israelis/US/GB and actually stick to it. And they should stop protecting Hamas and other terrorist leaders.
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We've had military leaders say stupid things and yet everyone knows we're not gonna commit to anything like that.
WHOA RIGHT THERE BUCK ROGERS ::) no we don't know you're not going to do anything like that. There are probably thousands of crazy zionist statements like this, I've come across many many statement that dropped my jaw. proponents of Zionism are nuts, loony, kookoo kookoo... And how can you come off chalking this crap up to just a stupid comment not meant but expect full believe to be applied to Achmenianijad's statements. Take your word for it? ahahahahha... I learned my lesson long ago on that... No more handshake deals with you guys ;) Also, good to see you said "we've had" duel loyalties ::) Would you spy on America if Israel asks?
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http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
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I don't mind, I'm a liberal and Hugo Chavez is my father :P Care to explain your stupidity yet ;D Fargin ass, how am I a hypocrite ::)
You condemn Israel for one officials comment when multiple leaders and officials of radical islamic countries have been saying and even practicing said policies for many many years. Yeah.. you're a hypocrit.
And apparently you're a liberal that argues like a 10 years old girl.
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Dude, I'm racist, my friends are racist... I'm no where near a PC type. But if you're gonna take an anti-israel position on here with the shit you have on your avatar then don't go wondering why anything might think you're a nazi.
Who said I was anti-Israel? Sure, if this were 1947, I would be 100% on the side of the Palestinians. The European Jews had absolutely no right to come in and take over and steal the land. However, it's not 1947 now, and the reality of the situation is most of the Israelis currently living in Israel were born there, and have every right to their land and country, as they had nothing to do with the original takeover. Likewise, most of the Palestinians currently living there were born after the formation of Israel, and had nothing stolen from them personally. Most of the perpetrators and most of the victims are long dead.
Although both sides in the current situation can be pretty unreasonable at times, Israel on balance tends to act far more responsibly than the Islamic states.
And since you used to have 14/88 on here knowing full well almost no one knew what it meant, I think you're probably pretty far into the scene to claim you're not racist. Am I right?
No, you're not right.
Hope this helps!
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Palastinians should make a REAL effort to stop the daily murder of Israeli civilians. They should actually accept a deal presented by the Israelis/US/GB and actually stick to it. And they should stop protecting Hamas and other terrorist leaders.
I agree with you on that the Palestinians have indeed failed to stick to any plan that's been thrown at them. But why? Maybe because they are having their lands confiscated and having their homes bulldozed? Israel is no saint.
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You condemn Israel for one officials comment when multiple leaders and officials of radical islamic countries have been saying and even practicing said policies for many many years. Yeah.. you're a hypocrit.
And apparently you're a liberal that argues like a 10 years old girl.
And you're a liar... I am not aware of one arab country that has said it will destroy the world before they go down... Quotes please
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if "brixton bulldog" talked the shit he does on here in my neck of the woods lets just say he'd have some problems with men in white hoods.
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WHOA RIGHT THERE BUCK ROGERS ::) no we don't know you're not going to do anything like that. There are probably thousands of crazy zionist statements like this, I've come across many many statement that dropped my jaw. proponents of Zionism are nuts, loony, kookoo kookoo... And how can you come off chalking this crap up to just a stupid comment not meant but expect full believe to be applied to Achmenianijad's statements. Take your word for it? ahahahahha... I learned my lesson long ago on that... No more handshake deals with you guys ;) Also, good to see you said "we've had" duel loyalties ::) Would you spy on America if Israel asks?
I would never spy on my own country. I'm American, not Israeli.
The difference is that Israel has never actually committed any aggression unless provoked and even then it was an obvious targeted response to something done against it.
Yet arab nations in that part of the world have been supporting terrorism, developing weapons (and using them in Saddams case), murdering and torturing civilians and committing countless other crimes and where's the outcry from people like yourselves....
.. nowhere.
for some reason when it comes to israel people think it's okay to throw objectivity out the window and just hate instead
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Who said I was anti-Israel? Sure, if this were 1947, I would be 100% on the side of the Palestinians. The European Jews had absolutely no right to come in and take over and steal the land. However, it's not 1947 now, and the reality of the situation is most of the Israelis currently living in Israel were born there, and have every right to their land and country, as they had nothing to do with the original takeover. Likewise, most of the Palestinians currently living there were born after the formation of Israel, and had nothing stolen from them personally. Most of the perpetrators and most of the victims are long dead.
you wrong about the formation and who was right on that one too but we can come back to that. I agree it's a non issue at this point.
Although both sides in the current situation can be pretty unreasonable at times, Israel on balance tends to act far more responsibly than the Islamic states.
No, you're not right.
I guess I'll take your word for it.
Hope this helps!
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I would never spy on my own country. I'm American, not Israeli.
Why did you we "We've had" ::)
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Brixton, stop replying in the quotes, it's a pain to reply to your words when you do that. Just seperate the quotes and reply.
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I agree with you on that the Palestinians have indeed failed to stick to any plan that's been thrown at them. But why? Maybe because they are having their lands confiscated and having their homes bulldozed? Israel is no saint.
Please, Israels most over used technique of diplomacy is GIVING AWAY THIER LAND!!! The PL's continually reject that as well. And the bulldozing was used to destroy places as known sanctuarys of terrorists and strategist postions critical for separating israeli civilians and PL's.
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http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
those guys just got a death threat. I didn't know about them until the video death threat from some Israeli Army guys was sent in to them.
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if "brixton bulldog" talked the shit he does on here in my neck of the woods lets just say he'd have some problems with men in white hoods.
Berserker, you called me a redneck? haha
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Berserker, you called me a redneck? haha
you called yourself a racist earlier.
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Berserker, you called me a redneck? haha
Don't be an idiot... I didn't call you a redneck ::) I accused you of listing to propaganda targeted at dumb rednecks ;) Learn to read. Your fist reason for being a zionist was word for word exactly that.
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you called yourself a racist earlier.
yea, what the hell was that about, who you hatin on Brix, do tell ;D
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a_joker, I agree with your assessment regarding the 2 state solution.
I think it's fair to ask Hamas to recognize Israel. But I also think it's fair to ask Israel to recognize Palestine. What do you think?
My main problem with the current plan of 2 states, is that it's not a 50/50 split. That is the only way it could be done.
A very fair question also, is why the Palestinians who lives in Palestine/Israel, have no right to vote?
Since they are such a big part of the population in Palestine/Israel, it is only fair that they are represented in the Knesset, the parliament of Israel.
-Hedge
I agree Israel should recognize Palestine and help to make a 2 state solution work. This should include corridors to access both Gaza and the West bank and should include land that their neighbouring sates hold, including land in Syria, Jordan and Egypt.
I wanted clear some things up. Arab Israeli's can vote. Palestinians can't. A Palestinian that lives in the conquered land or was refugee.
The main issue stopping the final peace process iis the right of return and this really needs to be addressed.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf18.html#a (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf18.html#a)
Israel is one of the most open societies in the world. Out of a population of 6.7 million, about 1.3 million — 20 percent of the population — are non-Jews (approximately 1.1 million Muslims, 130,000 Christians and 100,000 Druze).1
Arabs in Israel have equal voting rights; in fact, it is one of the few places in the Middle East where Arab women may vote. Arabs currently hold 8 seats in the 120-seat Knesset. Israeli Arabs have also held various government posts, including one who served as Israel's ambassador to Finland and the current deputy mayor of Tel Aviv. Oscar Abu Razaq was appointed Director General of the Ministry of Interior, the first Arab citizen to become chief executive of a key government ministry. Ariel Sharon's original cabinet included the first Arab minister, Salah Tarif, a Druze who served as a minister without portfolio. An Arab is also a Supreme Court justice.
Arabic, like Hebrew, is an official language in Israel. More than 300,000 Arab children attend Israeli schools. At the time of Israel's founding, there was one Arab high school in the country. Today, there are hundreds of Arab schools.2
In 2002, the Israeli Supreme Court also ruled that the government cannot allocate land based on religion or ethnicity, and may not prevent Arab citizens from living wherever they choose.2a
The sole legal distinction between Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel is that the latter are not required to serve in the Israeli army. This is to spare Arab citizens the need to take up arms against their brethren. Nevertheless, Bedouins have served in paratroop units and other Arabs have volunteered for military duty. Compulsory military service is applied to the Druze and Circassian communities at their own request.
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those guys just got a death threat. I didn't know about them until the video death threat from some Israeli Army guys was sent in to them.
What isn't included is the reason which people are targeted and killed for each side.
Motives are this:
Israel never targets civilians. Pl's almost ALWAYS target civilians.
Israel attempts to kill terrorists 1 at a time, 3 at a time. Pl's attempt to kill CIVILIANS 10 at a time, 40 at a time.
Isreal constantly attempts to deal with terrorists... an unreasonable act in itself because they are terrorists. The Pl's not only harbor terrorists but support them and any attempts to deal with Israelis are never followed through and never compromised upon.
Isreal kills Pl's civilians only when terrorists hide amongst them on purpose, not only to hide, specifically, but to generate sympathy from people like you when civilians are killed. And you all are buying every shred of it.
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you called yourself a racist earlier.
Everyone's racist... the matter is of what degree and what races.
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Don't be an idiot... I didn't call you a redneck ::) I accused you of listing to propaganda targeted at dumb rednecks ;) Learn to read. Your fist reason for being a zionist was word for word exactly that.
Why would rednecks need to buy into propaganda.. they already support that side.
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I agree Israel should recognize Palestine and help to make a 2 state solution work. This should include corridors to access both Gaza and the West bank and should include land that their neighbouring sates hold, including land in Syria, Jordan and Egypt.
I wanted clear some things up. Arab Israeli's can vote. Palestinians can't. A Palestinian that lives in the conquered land or was refugee.
The main issue stopping the final peace process iis the right of return and this really needs to be addressed.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf18.html#a (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf18.html#a)
Israel is one of the most open societies in the world. Out of a population of 6.7 million, about 1.3 million — 20 percent of the population — are non-Jews (approximately 1.1 million Muslims, 130,000 Christians and 100,000 Druze).1
Arabs in Israel have equal voting rights; in fact, it is one of the few places in the Middle East where Arab women may vote. Arabs currently hold 8 seats in the 120-seat Knesset. Israeli Arabs have also held various government posts, including one who served as Israel's ambassador to Finland and the current deputy mayor of Tel Aviv. Oscar Abu Razaq was appointed Director General of the Ministry of Interior, the first Arab citizen to become chief executive of a key government ministry. Ariel Sharon's original cabinet included the first Arab minister, Salah Tarif, a Druze who served as a minister without portfolio. An Arab is also a Supreme Court justice.
Arabic, like Hebrew, is an official language in Israel. More than 300,000 Arab children attend Israeli schools. At the time of Israel's founding, there was one Arab high school in the country. Today, there are hundreds of Arab schools.2
In 2002, the Israeli Supreme Court also ruled that the government cannot allocate land based on religion or ethnicity, and may not prevent Arab citizens from living wherever they choose.2a
The sole legal distinction between Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel is that the latter are not required to serve in the Israeli army. This is to spare Arab citizens the need to take up arms against their brethren. Nevertheless, Bedouins have served in paratroop units and other Arabs have volunteered for military duty. Compulsory military service is applied to the Druze and Circassian communities at their own request.
Good post.. I don't completely agree but at least you're being objective.
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http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/5999
http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/01/why_does_the_left_hate_israel.html
http://www.freeman.org/m_online/mar97/bainermn.htm
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/254925p-218295c.html
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/07/the_israel_enigma.html
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Why would rednecks need to buy into propaganda.. they already support that side.
Idiot... ::)
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Everyone's racist... the matter is of what degree and what races.
Uh. I beg to differ. Not true. Not true at all.
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Uh. I beg to differ. Not true. Not true at all.
I agree with you here... If Brix is all about hating all Arabs or something, that's just puke. I admit to having a very strong urge to hate all North Koreans when I see them, but I know that wouldn't work in reality, I couldn't go hating on them all. Dang they sure are funny looking though, especially with that assmarch of theirs... ;D
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Everyone's racist... the matter is of what degree and what races.
oh ok so some racism is OK? ::)
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oh ok so some racism is OK? ::)
Not necessarily ok but human nature. And it would certainly depend if it's based on untrue stereotypes or facts backed up with statistical figures.
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Not necessarily ok but human nature. And it would certainly depend if it's based on untrue stereotypes or facts backed up with statistical figures.
So what Races are you hatin on? Come on, spill it hater ;D
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So what Races are you hatin on? Come on, spill it hater ;D
You first..
But it's also important to remember that racism doesn't have to mean pure hatred. It can be a general dislike or even just a belief that certain stereotypes are true.
Also there are always exceptions to the rule. Everyone should be given a chance even if they're culture has its flaws.
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You first..
But it's also important to remember that racism doesn't have to mean pure hatred. It can be a general dislike or even just a belief that certain stereotypes are true.
Also there are always exceptions to the rule. Everyone should be given a chance even if they're culture has its flaws.
Well that the same as I believe, this post pretty much sums up exactly the way I thing but I hardly classify that as being a hater... You were showboating with your comment earlier, you want to meet some real race hate, this aint it...
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Well that's already the same as I believe, this post pretty much sums up exactly the way I thing but I hardly classify that as being a hater... You were showboating with your comment earlier, you want to meet some real race hate, this aint it...
My definition and hatred are two very different things. I'm not here to post my opinions of different races. I'm here to defend israels right to exist on a board full of guys that obviously hate israel, israelis, or are simply ignorant to the entire ordeal.
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My definition and hatred are two very different things. I'm not here to post my opinions of different races. I'm here to defend israels right to exist on a board full of guys that obviously hate israel, israelis, or are simply ignorant to the entire ordeal.
I don't hate Israelis, and I believe they have the right to exist. This opinion has always been so with me. My statement that Zionism must end does not mean I believe the Jews must end or even end in that land. Of course I do not... I'm not ignorant to this whole thing, I've spend stupid time reading Zionist crap all the way back to the 1800s, I even have a Zionist literary collection including books that technically "don't exist" ;) I do not hate Jews even though they love to piss me off when it comes to business.
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I don't hate Israelis, and I believe they have the right to exist. This opinion has always been so with me. My statement that Zionism must end does not mean I believe the Jews must end or even end in that land. Of course I do not... I'm not ignorant to this whole thing, I've spend stupid time reading Zionist crap all the way back to the 1800s, I even have a Zionist literary collection including books that technically "don't exist" ;) I do not hate Jews even though they love to piss me off when it comes to business.
Not saying you did but it was either one of the above. Most americans are ignorant to the facts of what's happening over there, even most Jewish Americans. It isn't like 9/11 that people like 240 can twist and manipulate due to a lack of answers.
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Not saying you did but it was either one of the above. Most americans are ignorant to the facts of what's happening over there, even most Jewish Americans. It isn't like 9/11 that people like 240 can twist and manipulate due to a lack of answers.
yea, this I agree with and it's why I hate doing this online where this topic is concerned. The issue is freaking huge and has many angles and the desire isn't usually there for giant posts to be considered back and forth so it usually dissipates to drivel in short order.
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yea, this I agree with and it's why I hate doing this online where this topic is concerned. The issue is freaking huge and has many angles and the desire isn't usually there for giant posts to be considered back and forth so it usually dissipates to drivel in short order.
From what I can see you believe in the end of Israel.
That will not happen.
So I would believe it would be better to focus on an outcome that would include a state of Israel.
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From what I can see you believe in the end of Israel.
That will not happen.
So I would believe it would be better to focus on an outcome that would include a state of Israel.
WRONG.... I always always have people ASSume this of me... It is not true I guarantee you. I may have some crazy ideas for peace but it doesn't include an end to the country or the people.
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From what I can see you believe in the end of Israel.
That will not happen.
So I would believe it would be better to focus on an outcome that would include a state of Israel.
IMO, Israel should never been created. We all, with some quick decisions in UN, stole the land from the Palestinians.
But things being the way they are, I don't think a whole country can be undone. You can't tell people in Israel to move back to wherever their parents and grand-parents came from.
Like it or not, the Israelis are there, and the sooner everyone comes to terms with it, the better.
Still, the Palestinian state needs to be an equal. Palestinians can't live on less than 10% of the Israel/Palestine area. It has to be 50-50.
Now Israel claims to have problems with Hamas.
Hamas, an organisation that Israel's Intelligence Mossad in the mid-80's started up, to fcuk with the Fatah.
Sometimes you wonder how many people really wants peace?
I definitely support a Palestinian state.
But I also support Israels right to exist. No attack on Israel is ever acceptable.
-Hedge
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IMO, Israel should never been created. We all, with some quick decisions in UN, stole the land from the Palestinians.
But things being the way they are, I don't think a whole country can be undone. You can't tell people in Israel to move back to wherever their parents and grand-parents came from.
Like it or not, the Israelis are there, and the sooner everyone comes to terms with it, the better.
Still, the Palestinian state needs to be an equal. Palestinians can't live on less than 10% of the Israel/Palestine area. It has to be 50-50.
Now Israel claims to have problems with Hamas.
Hamas, an organisation that Israel's Intelligence Mossad in the mid-80's started up, to fcuk with the Fatah.
Sometimes you wonder how many people really wants peace?
I definitely support a Palestinian state.
But I also support Israels right to exist. No attack on Israel is ever acceptable.
-Hedge
exactly, well said all accept for the palestinian state. My thinking is a bit different in that area. I do not believe there should be a palestinian state. Now I KNOW that's going to confuse people :D
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back to my original statement, zionism was a mistake that's going to get us all killed. :P
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IMO, Israel should never been created. We all, with some quick decisions in UN, stole the land from the Palestinians.
But things being the way they are, I don't think a whole country can be undone. You can't tell people in Israel to move back to wherever their parents and grand-parents came from.
Like it or not, the Israelis are there, and the sooner everyone comes to terms with it, the better.
Still, the Palestinian state needs to be an equal. Palestinians can't live on less than 10% of the Israel/Palestine area. It has to be 50-50.
Now Israel claims to have problems with Hamas.
Hamas, an organisation that Israel's Intelligence Mossad in the mid-80's started up, to fcuk with the Fatah.
Sometimes you wonder how many people really wants peace?
I definitely support a Palestinian state.
But I also support Israels right to exist. No attack on Israel is ever acceptable.
-Hedge
Israel was a spoil of war owned by GB. The population was almist nil being a few tribes of nomadic herders due to the infertile and desolate landscape. When the state was established the new populace settled in places that were completely isolated from the herders. Some herders chose to move to these new settlements due the prosperity and farming techniques that were employed and brought fertility and wealth to the land. These herders prospered and they, being the first palestinians, co -existed in harmony with the Israelis. To say it was stolen is completely innaccurate.
Nor is a 50 50 split acceptable. It is still Israel and any compromise on a new land deal would be up to them. But after everything that has happened if a new deal was struck the palestinians would be given more than enough to call thier own. Many think they already have enough. the problem with them is the whole "give em an inch, they take a mile" deal. they consistantly fail to accept the compromises and everytime Israel concedes to them they continue the attacks and continue to push for more and more land.
Hamas is so much larger than people realize with new recruits flowing in by the dozens all the time. the Pl's are indoctrinated not to live for a compromise but to never stop until the evil israel is destroyed. Not only that but the PL populace is overwhelmingly supportive of the terrorism. Hamas needs to be eradicated.. period.
Although a palestinian state is probably the closest thing to a workable deal I tend to believe that murdering the women and children of your enemy on a daily basis removes your right to anything.
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back to my original statement, zionism was a mistake that's going to get us all killed. :P
Zionism will never "get us all killed." It is a perfectly workable solution provided the palestinian issue can be handled well.. either by complete defeat of the war machine (not likely) or by a space for them to exist WITHOUT continued attacks on Israel. I also hesistate to say that is likely just because of thier feelings and actions against israel are unlikely to change.
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Zionism will never "get us all killed." It is a perfectly workable solution provided the palestinian issue can be handled well.. either by complete defeat of the war machine (not likely) or by a space for them to exist WITHOUT continued attacks on Israel. I also hesistate to say that is likely just because of thier feelings and actions against israel are unlikely to change.
WRONG... that's not part of the plan.... I have a playbook, you should get one ;D
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exactly, well said all accept for the palestinian state. My thinking is a bit different in that area. I do not believe there should be a palestinian state. Now I KNOW that's going to confuse people :D
What would you suggest? Give Gaza to Egypt, give the West Bank to Jordan, and be done with it?
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What would you suggest? Give Gaza to Egypt, give the West Bank to Jordan, and be done with it?
This is a huge debate. I have thoughts on this, quite a bit actually, it's been sort of a strange hobby of mine, but you've given absolutly no reason for me to waste my time putting forth a lenghty agrument. 95% of what I read from your posts is sarcastic bullshit... Been there done that before and it never goes anywhere... it's not important anyway, nothing either of us say will ever do any good. The outcome is written in stone. My solution is pretty much not possible anyway... not that I think any others are any better...
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Wow... you seem to get dumber with every statement.
I am a zionist in that I believe Jews return to Israel is Gods plan. But I am also a conservative who understands that Israels right to exist has nothing to do with a religious return by all jews. I am technically 1/2 but my mother converted when she married.
Sorry to bust your bubble, ...well not really, :P , ...but according to the tenets of Judaism, ...you're not a Jew.
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Sorry to bust your bubble, ...well not really, :P , ...but according to the tenets of Judaism, ...you're not a Jew.
Depends on the Jews you ask.. to some I wouldn't be a jew just because I'm american. I don't decide who I am based on others. Maybe you do.
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I'm fearful to jump in here so I'm not getting invloved other then to say..I hope the damm Jews make em glow.... ;D
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I'm fearful to jump in here so I'm not getting invloved other then to say..I hope the damm Jews make em glow.... ;D
Haha, nice one. Don't be scared... they're liberals, remember!!
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Haha, nice one. Don't be scared... they're liberals, remember!!
tossing that term around like it's an insult, it's not... Now you want a hated term, it's neocon... If someone called me that, I'd have the instinct to end the turd. ;) Not to popular these days, neocons ;D
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If someone called me that, I'd have the instinct to end the turd.
Only a liberal would say some silly shit like this.
I might just put a neocon sticker on my car. Of course, I've been conservative my whole life so I guess it's not new.
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Only a liberal would say some silly shit like this.
I might just put a neocon sticker on my car. Of course, I've been conservative my whole life so I guess it's not new.
They're not one in the same idiot ::) and you better call for a do-over with your only a liberal would say that... D'UH ::) lol...
Danimal.... Were you serious with that? LOL D'ANIMAL in DA houuusssseeeee...... :-*
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Is there a way to send Israel donations to help them carry out their plans on nuking Iran?
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They're not one in the same idiot ::) and you better call for a do-over with your only a liberal would say that... D'UH ::) lol...
Danimal.... Were you serious with that? LOL D'ANIMAL in DA houuusssseeeee...... :-*
What's not one in the same?
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Neocons were all liberals at one time....I think we've covered this one. I'm sure the Israeli's have plans to nuke half the mid east.
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Is there a way to send Israel donations to help them carry out their plans on nuking Iran?
You already are moron ::)