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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on January 13, 2007, 09:58:32 AM
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:)
Bush: If you don't like my Iraq plan, tell me yours
POSTED: 11:22 a.m. EST, January 13, 2007
WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush on Saturday challenged lawmakers skeptical of his new Iraq plan to propose their own strategy for stopping the violence in Baghdad.
"To oppose everything while proposing nothing is irresponsible," Bush said.
In a pitch to lawmakers and the American people, Bush said the United States will keep the onus on the Iraqi government to take charge of security and reach a political reconciliation. Democrats and many Republicans oppose the Bush plan to send 21,500 more U.S. troops into Iraq.
"We have a new strategy with a new mission: Helping secure the population, especially in Baghdad," Bush said in his weekly radio address. "Our plan puts Iraqis in the lead."
The president asked for patience from lawmakers who grilled Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, when they testified before Congress in defense of the president's new plan.
Democratic leaders in the House and Senate intend to hold votes within a few weeks on Bush's revised Iraq policy. The nonbinding resolutions would be one way to show their opposition to any troop buildup and force Republicans to make a choice about whether they support the president's plan.
Rep. Tim Walz, D-Minnesota, said that he, along with most Democrats and an increasing number of Republicans, believe sending more troops compounds a bad situation. Walz, a veteran of the war in Afghanistan, said diplomatic and political solutions are needed, not more troops.
"Before moving forward with this escalation, we owe it to these troops, to their families, and to all Americans to ask the tough questions and demand honest answers about this policy," Walz said in the Democrats' Saturday radio address.
"Is there a clear strategy that the commanders on the ground believe will succeed?" Walz said. "What are the benchmarks for success, and how long does the president believe it will take to achieve them? Is this a policy that will contribute to the America's security in the larger war on terror, or distract from it?"
Bush: Those who oppose plan must 'offer alternative'
"Members of Congress have a right to express their views, and express them forcefully," Bush said. "But those who refuse to give this plan a chance to work have an obligation to offer an alternative that has a better chance for success. "
In his radio broadcast, Bush replayed the highlights of his Wednesday night address to the nation.
He said the 21,500 troops being sent to Baghdad and Anbar province, a base for al Qaeda, have a changed mission.
"This time there will be adequate Iraqi and U.S. forces to hold the areas that have been cleared," Bush said.
Bush said Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki has pledged that political sectarian interference with security operations will not be tolerated. "This time, Iraqi and American forces will have a green light to enter neighborhoods that are home to those fueling sectarian violence," he said.
The president also said the United States will hold the Iraqi government to its pledge to take responsibility for security in all of Iraq's provinces by November, pass legislation to share oil revenues among all Iraqis and spend $10 billion of its own money on reconstruction that will create new jobs.
"The Iraqi government knows that it must meet them, or lose the support of the Iraqi and the American people," Bush said.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/13/Bush.Dems.radio.ap/index.html
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the subject line says it all.
the only arguement i've heard is, we shouldn't be there anyway.
no plan, just criticism.
why can't they get over it, we're there, we're not leaving, so let's work together.
good post, beach
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oh yeah, leaving is not a plan.
i'm sure it will be stated
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LOL!!!
"Boss, I spent this year's human resources budget on coke this weekend. If anyone else has a better idea how the money should have been spent, contact me in january 2008 and we'll talk about it"
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The dems have been out of power for 12 years, now their back in, you'd think with all the bitching and critisizing and name calling they could have came up with something in at least the last 5 years......now you have all these doctored photos and bullshit conspiracy sites blaming the Government for 9/11.......unfuckingbelievable!
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the subject line says it all.
the only arguement i've heard is, we shouldn't be there anyway.
no plan, just criticism.
why can't they get over it, we're there, we're not leaving, so let's work together.
good post, beach
Thanks. Ozmo and I were discussing this yesterday. Bush must have been reading. :) Given that Congress has the power to declare war, they passed resolutions supporting this war, and many of the liberals in Congress were elected in November by criticizing the war, they need to come forward with a plan. They can only throw darts for so long. I think they're afraid. What they're trying to do is deflect attention away from their lack of substance by focusing on things like the minimum wage (talk about a waste of time). The war should be at the top of their agenda.
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now you have all these doctored photos and bullshit conspiracy sites blaming the Government for 9/11.......unfuckingbelievable!
It is unbelievable. But history has shown that "self attacks" have worked very well for OTHER countries' governments in the past to achieve greater things for the nation. And Congress agreed in the late 70s that JFK "probably" was killed as a result of a larger group (making it a conspiracy), documents admit Gulf of TOnken was faked. So I guess that would mean OTHER nations do it, and OUR govt did it in 1963 and 1964, but they wouldn't do it today. Right?
Also, you shouldn't generalize "the Govt" for 9/11. 19 arabs did hijack planes. They were assisted in succeeding by a small group of people on the ground in key positions. Just like I wouldn't blame "the govt" when one congressman has 90,000 in bribe in his freezer, i don't blame "the govt" because 50 or less people in key positions acted to ensure those planes hit their targets.
Finally - I saw you attack the evidence as false. Can you cite 5 piece of 9/11 evidence that are false?
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Thanks. Ozmo and I were discussing this yesterday. Bush must have been reading. :) Given that Congress has the power to declare war, they passed resolutions supporting this war, and many of the liberals in Congress were elected in November by criticizing the war, they need to come forward with a plan. They can only throw darts for so long. I think they're afraid. What they're trying to do is deflect attention away from their lack of substance by focusing on things like the minimum wage (talk about a waste of time). The war should be at the top of their agenda.
Well, again, i see much of what you saying and to critisize the president without a plan is not good.
I think the reality at the moment is that, And MR. I, i hope you are reading even though you still haven't reponded to my question anther than to give me crickets, ::::::::
BUSH got us into such a mess that there aren't any good answers at the moment.
Besides there is aplan out there: ISG.
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Well, again, i see much of what you saying and to critisize the president without a plan is not good.
I think the reality at the moment is that, And MR. I, i hope you are reading even though you still haven't reponded to my question anther than to give me crickets, ::::::::
BUSH got us into such a mess that there aren't any good answers at the moment.
Besides there is aplan out there: ISG.
I see something inherently wrong with Democrats running on the war and then doing nothing about it after the election. And if the ISG is a good plan, they should jump all over it. They haven't.
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I see something inherently wrong with Democrats running on the war and then doing nothing about it after the election. And if the ISG is a good plan, they should jump all over it. They haven't.
they will. When the political climate dictates it they will have a plan.
Plus i think the American public voiced it's distaste for the neo-con leadership not it's support of dems neccesarily.
Whne you have Hillary Clinton, voting for a bill allowing kids to get abortions without parent notification, to me it sounds like the dems still have a little way to go to get back down to earth.
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I see something inherently wrong with Democrats running on the war and then doing nothing about it after the election. And if the ISG is a good plan, they should jump all over it. They haven't.
The Dems have been in power 4 days now. They've had all of 16 hours to work since Pres. bush gave his plan.
1) Would you really trust any plan to solve such a complex problem in 4 days?
2) Would you really trust any plan which came out to counter a Bush plan they had not yet received?
If it's march and no dem plan yet, I will be the first to criticize. but seriously, they can't build a plan until the input the numbers Bush just sent over 48 hours ago. Do you not understand the complexity of the situation as well as the logistical issues involved in getting a group consensus on how to respond to a plan they got on WED NIGHT?
Be reasonable.
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Eveyrone has been telling that dumnbass for a troop pullout and he hasn't been listening. Instead he's send more troops and accusing everyone of not having a plan.
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they will. When the political climate dictates it they will have a plan.
Plus i think the American public voiced it's distaste for the neo-con leadership not it's support of dems neccesarily.
Whne you have Hillary Clinton, voting for a bill allowing kids to get abortions without parent notification, to me it sounds like the dems still have a little way to go to get back down to earth.
Good points.
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Eveyrone has been telling that dumnbass for a troop pullout and he hasn't been listening. Instead he's send more troops and accusing everyone of not having a plan.
ALL GROUPS HERE - except a small neocon faction and the defense contractors - CALL FOR EITHER A JUMP TO 250K+ TROOPS, OR A REDUCTION TO ZERO. NONE CALL FOR 'MAINTENANCE' LEVEL OF FORCES
Bush doesn't represent the wishes of the American people, his own party majority, or the people of iraq. he represents the wishes of PNAC and defense contractors.
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The Dems have been in power 4 days now. They've had all of 16 hours to work since Pres. bush gave his plan.
1) Would you really trust any plan to solve such a complex problem in 4 days?
2) Would you really trust any plan which came out to counter a Bush plan they had not yet received?
If it's march and no dem plan yet, I will be the first to criticize. but seriously, they can't build a plan until the input the numbers Bush just sent over 48 hours ago. Do you not understand the complexity of the situation as well as the logistical issues involved in getting a group consensus on how to respond to a plan they got on WED NIGHT?
Be reasonable.
This makes a great deal of sense.
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The Dems have been in power 4 days now. They've had all of 16 hours to work since Pres. bush gave his plan.
1) Would you really trust any plan to solve such a complex problem in 4 days?
2) Would you really trust any plan which came out to counter a Bush plan they had not yet received?
If it's march and no dem plan yet, I will be the first to criticize. but seriously, they can't build a plan until the input the numbers Bush just sent over 48 hours ago. Do you not understand the complexity of the situation as well as the logistical issues involved in getting a group consensus on how to respond to a plan they got on WED NIGHT?
Be reasonable.
That makes no sense. They proposed a political agenda before they took control. They haven't had 4 days. The war has been ongoing for years. They ran on the war for months leading up to the election. Before they took over both houses they had an agenda, that conspicuously did NOT include the war. Obviously, the war was the most important issue in the election and is the most important issue today. Yet, they have proposed nothing. But they have proposed raising my taxes and attacked business. No surprise.
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Well, again, i see much of what you saying and to critisize the president without a plan is not good.
I think the reality at the moment is that, And MR. I, i hope you are reading even though you still haven't reponded to my question anther than to give me crickets, ::::::::
BUSH got us into such a mess that there aren't any good answers at the moment.
Besides there is aplan out there: ISG.
What question is that? I post between clients, then when I train a client for an hour, I come back and there's twenty more posts I don't have time too look for my questions!
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That makes no sense.
This makes a great deal of sense.
Wide difference here.
beach bum, i take it you don't understand how bills are passed. "Having an agenda" means you have a game plan and an estimation of popular beliefs. Since many dems weren't even IN wash DC until this week when they got started, obviously they wouldn't have everything passed immediately.
The "agenda" COULD NOT include the war, because they didn't know what Bush planned to do (and he wouldn't tell anyone). He could have reduced 75k forces, raised it by 21k, or raised it by 100k. Would it have been rationale for them to build a plan before knowing the situation they would be facing there? No.
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That makes no sense. They proposed a political agenda before they took control. They haven't had 4 days. The war has been ongoing for years. They ran on the war for months leading up to the election. Before they took over both houses they had an agenda, that conspicuously did NOT include the war. Obviously, the war was the most important issue in the election and is the most important issue today. Yet, they have proposed nothing. But they have proposed raising my taxes and attacked business. No surprise.
I think it does.
Remember they are the Senate and Congress. Not the Commander and Chief. They don;t decide issues like this. they vote to declare only. But they don't dictate tactical actions in war. The President and his generals do. For them to put a plan out now might not be very kosher from a political stand point and for the benefit of the moral of the troops over there.....even if it seems like a good plan.
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What question is that? I post between clients, then when I train a client for an hour, I come back and there's twenty more posts I don't have time too look for my questions!
Dude, chill ;D
Quote from: Mr. Intenseone on January 12, 2007, 11:34:48 AM
You know as well as I do that Dems are notoriously and historically weak on defence and have virtually done nothing,
Still more crickets...............
Anyone here have answers to this?
Can someone give me real facts to show me what he is talking about?
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ALL GROUPS HERE - except a small neocon faction and the defense contractors - CALL FOR EITHER A JUMP TO 250K+ TROOPS, OR A REDUCTION TO ZERO. NONE CALL FOR 'MAINTENANCE' LEVEL OF FORCES
Bush doesn't represent the wishes of the American people, his own party majority, or the people of iraq. he represents the wishes of PNAC and defense contractors.
Exactly, that cokehead is pretty much doing whatever the hell he wants without thinking in the best internest of both the American and Iraqi people.
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Wide difference here.
beach bum, i take it you don't understand how bills are passed.
LOL! ;D
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I think it does.
Remember they are the Senate and Congress. Not the Commander and Chief. They don;t decide issues like this. they vote to declare only. But they don't dictate tactical actions in war. The President and his generals do. For them to put a plan out now might not be very kosher from a political stand point and for the benefit of the moral of the troops over there.....even if it seems like a good plan.
They also pass resolutions, like they did after the war started, which supported the war. They also fund the war. They can meet with the Joint Chiefs any time they want. They can hold committee hearings to share ideas. The way you make it sound they should never put out their own plan. :-\
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They also pass resolutions, like they did after the war started, which supported the war. They also fund the war. They can meet with the Joint Chiefs any time they want. They can hold committee hearings to share ideas. The way you make it sound they should never put out their own plan. :-\
I'm not saying they shouldn't. I was thinking as i was typing that maybe it's not really a good idea to put out a detailed plan right now. Maybe becuase of the moral of the troops and maybe becuase of the fact there are no good answers.
What we are looking for, or at least what you seem to be getting at, is a strategic and tactical plan in Iraq. That's really something for the president and the generals.
And 240 does have a point. IMO, It's been 4 days.
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Dude, chill ;D
Quickly the first thing that comes to mind are the attacks on at the WTC in 1993,USS Cole, US embassies and then letting BinLaden go a few times all during the Clinton admisistration!
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I'm not saying they shouldn't. I was thinking as i was typing that maybe it's not really a good idea to put out a detailed plan right now. Maybe becuase of the moral of the troops and maybe becuase of the fact there are no good answers.
What we are looking for, or at least what you seem to be getting at, is a strategic and tactical plan in Iraq. That's really something for the president and the generals.
And 240 does have a point. IMO, It's been 4 days.
I think they have no stones. Many of them believe we should pull out. They should get behind Kennedy and support a timed withdrawal if that's what they believe.
I think I would be much more patient if they hadn't already proposed a legislative agenda before taking over and actually voted on measures right after taking over. Often, especially at the state level, both the executive and legislative branches know precisely what they are going to propose, oppose, etc. BEFORE the session even starts. Here is an example, from Governor Lingle in Hawaii (our session has not started yet):
Plan for economic innovation unveiled
By Derrick DePledge
Advertiser Government Writer
Gov. Linda Lingle introduced her ideas yesterday at the state Capitol to create school academies specializing in science and technology.
JOAQUIN SIOPACK | The Honolulu Advertiser
GOVERNOR'S INNOVATION AND SUSTAINABILITY INITIATIVE
Education and training in science and technology is a cornerstone of Lingle's plan to gear Hawai'i's workforce to the global economy.
INNOVATION IN EDUCATION
Create science and technology "academies" in middle and high schools.
Pay tuition of academy graduates who go to college in Hawai'i.
Increase college tuition tax deduction to up to $20,000.
Give K-12 teachers of math and science opportunities for refresher courses at UH.
Increase commercial spinoff from UH research.
Add three endowed faculty chairs at UH for science and technology.
INNOVATION IN THE ECONOMY
Develop a digital media center for film post-production and computer game development.
Develop a center for music production and promotion.
Support private sector life sciences and biotechnology research facilty in Kaka'ako.
Create $100 million Hawai'i Innovation Fund to provide capital for promising emerging companies.
Create a Hawai'i Innovation Council to guide public and private sector initiatives.
INNOVATION IN WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT
Create 401K-type accounts in which workers could set aside pre-tax earnings, matched by employers, for job training.
Develop the ability to rapidly train workers in specific fields as business opportunities arise.
Help businesses identify and lure home skilled kama'aina workers now working away from Hawai'i.
Expand opportunities for high school students to gain experience through business internship and mentorships.
INNOVATION IN LINKING HAWAI'I TO GLOBAL ECONOMY
Support international activities in Hawai'i and ties to the Pacific region through the Office of International Affairs and a new International Affairs Council.
Position Hawai'i as the Asia-Pacific gathering place for meetings on economic, security, health and other issues.
Help middle and high school students find opportunities to study abroad.
Make all state permits accessible online by 2010, except those prohibited by law.
Provide free wireless Internet access in public areas of all state buildings, libraries and schools.
Expand affordable wirelsss broadband service on all islands.
Store more government documents digitally and strive for "paperless" state offices.
Create a position of chief information technology officer in the state administration.
Hoping to provide the creative spark for a new generation of Island scientists, engineers and entrepreneurs, Gov. Linda Lingle announced a series of initiatives yesterday to promote innovation and help move the state's economy away from land development.
The two-year, $30 million plan includes new school academies that would specialize in science and technology, a state-backed college scholarship program for science-based graduates, state investments in the life sciences, digital media and music, and incentives for workers to save money that can be used to upgrade their job skills and remain competitive as technology evolves.
Taken individually, none of the governor's ideas match the provocative rhetoric last month in her second inauguration speech, in which she vowed to shift the focus of the state's economy from land development. But collectively, her plan stitches together several promising initiatives that could help diversify an economy overly dependent on tourism, land development and the military.
Lingle, at an afternoon news conference at the state Capitol, said the administration would set measurable goals. The administration believes the plan, if approved by the state Legislature and fully implemented, would raise average household income, increase the number of jobs that pay more than $50,000 a year, and substantially reduce the number of students who enter college needing remedial help in math and other basic subjects.
INITIATING DIALOGUE
Lingle said she wanted to start a dialogue on innovation with lawmakers, educators and the business community. While some of her advisers and partners described the plan as bold and even breathtaking, the governor called it a modest investment with the potential to yield big results.
"Innovation is so important because it's the only way, in our opinion, to preserve the quality of life while raising the standard of living," she said. "It's a clear pathway to sustainability."
The plan has been in the works for months, but Lingle was inspired by a visit this month to New Hampshire, where she met with Dean Kamen, the inventor of the Segway scooter, and attended the opening of his annual school robotics competition. She acknowledged that many of her initiatives have already been tried in some form or have been suggested by state lawmakers in the past, but never in such a comprehensive package. . . .
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070113/NEWS03/701130337
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I think they have no stones. Many of them believe we should pull out.
How many? 1? 200?
"They" = who? how many?
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Quickly the first thing that comes to mind are the attacks on at the WTC in 1993,USS Cole, US embassies and then letting BinLaden go a few times all during the Clinton admisistration!
What did they do exactly and what do you think they should have done instaed?
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What did they do exactly and what do you think they should have done instaed?
Personally Clinton should have what Bush did.....go after the terrorists responsible, Bush in essence, is trying to finish what Clinton didn't...which was basically nothing, and fireing a few missiles doesn't cut it, the problem is the administration is fighting a "politically correct" war......it's a fucking WAR and there will be casulties....the enemy is not fighting a "politically correct" war....and we (US) cannot be that way anymore!!
http://www.rense.com/general14/clintonshadow.htm
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Personally Clinton should have what Bush did.....go after the terrorists responsible, Bush in essence, is trying to finish what Clinton didn't...which was basically nothing, and fireing a few missiles doesn't cut it, the problem is the administration is fighting a "politically correct" war......it's a fucking WAR and there will be casulties....the enemy is not fighting a "politically correct" war....and we (US) cannot be that way anymore!!
http://www.rense.com/general14/clintonshadow.htm
So based on the terrorist act of a few people (Osama's gang) who inflicted what, 40 deaths?, we should have launched an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq?
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So based on the terrorist act of a few people (Osama's gang) who inflicted what, 40 deaths?, we should have launched an invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq?
Remember in 1998, the Taliban offered to turn him over.
Just like in 2001.
So if you're gonna shit on Clinton for not taking him in 1998, please be wise enough to realize Bush didn't take him in 2001 when the Taliban offered him.
yall don't get it. Bin laden is the boogeyman. In order to fund 3 or 4 simultaneous wars, you need one. He was here before bush and he'll be here after bush, and they'll never catch him because they don't want to. If tora bora, 1998, etc isn't a good enough examples of them "just plain letting him get away", please open your eyes.
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How many? 1? 200?
"They" = who? how many?
::)
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i'll tell u my plan...
and i'll put it in caps..so ya dont miss it...
DONT DESTROY OTHER COUNTRIES UNDER FALSE PRETENSES AND U WONT BE IN THIS MESS...
there is NO out anymore..bush made sure of that.. ;)
and if ya think that wsn't the plan all along..then i'd like to sell you some prime swampland in FL i own :)
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::)
LOL.. you're like the stereotypical sheep. You don't understand half of what I say, and you can't answer any of my questions. But you sure like to chime in!
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LOL.. you're like the stereotypical sheep. You don't understand half of what I say, and you can't answer any of my questions. But you sure like to chime in!
"Here is your daily mantra: ask a dumb a question, don't get the answer you like (or any answer at all), claim the person has been 'owned.' Very persuasive." ::)
You should create another alter ego called Jerry Fletcher. lol. ;D
Plot Outline: Jerry Fletcher is a man who sees conspiracies everywhere. But if you keep doing that long enough, sooner or later you're going to get one right... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118883/
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Quickly the first thing that comes to mind are the attacks on at the WTC in 1993,USS Cole, US embassies and then letting BinLaden go a few times all during the Clinton admisistration!
My first thought: What has any of that to do with Sadaam ?
Sandra