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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: DarthNemesis21 on January 16, 2007, 12:44:14 PM
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I have a 5000 mcg amp of hcg for my cycle.While this is not my cycle.It is with hcg included.What is the best way to use this.I know there are two schools of thought.
A.500mcg E5D.Till cycle is completed.
B.1500mcg E5D after cycle is completed.
I'm doing 10wks.
400deca/750sust. wkly.
My questions are...
A.If I take 500 mcg.E5D's.I'm not gonna have enough to make it through 10wks.I've got enough for approx. 6wks.Should I start the hcg.after I've been runnig my cycle for 4wks.Completing the last 6wks with the hcg.Or is that a waiste.
B.If I wait till the end of my cycle to use the hcg.When is the best time to start the1500mcg.E5D?The day after my last injection?When I start pct 2wks later?I've read about the "Rebound Period".Where your in a bad way.As far as test production gose.If I can avoid that.Or at least ease it a bit "COOL BEANS".
Also.how much is a mcg in I.U.'s (how imbarrasing) ::)
Any advise will be greatly appreciated.Thanks everyone.
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Hello?Beuller....Beuller....Be uller....
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You would be OK starting it 4 weeks in that will work fine, just make sure to have enough to do 2 more 500IU shots after you stop, because after you stop you will still have gear in your system for a couple more weeks and will still be needing the HCG.
I would wait a week or so and then start the big doses if thats what you decide to do at the end.
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So I would do the larger doses with my Nolvadex?I wait 2 wks to start my PCT.Making sure all AAS are out of my system.
Take HCG with Nolvadex?
Also.I really appreciate your Help/Advice Luv2Hurt.Thanks
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So I would do the larger doses with my Nolvadex?I wait 2 wks to start my PCT.Making sure all AAS are out of my system.
Take HCG with Nolvadex?
Also.I really appreciate your Help/Advice Luv2Hurt.Thanks
if you are only using long ester tests, after your last AAS injection, take two more shots (1 e5d) of 500iu HCG, then begin your PCT, which should include Nolvadex, Vitamin-E, and maybe even Aromasin if you have it.
Also, read the article I posted on PCT ..its one of the new threads, it will give you a good idea of how it all works
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During cycle: 350-500iu/e5d
or
After cycle: 10-14 days after last injection of AAS, take 1000iu/ed for 10 days, then begin nolva.
I've done it both ways and prefer the 2nd.
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You would be OK starting it 4 weeks in that will work fine, just make sure to have enough to do 2 more 500IU shots after you stop, because after you stop you will still have gear in your system for a couple more weeks and will still be needing the HCG.
I would wait a week or so and then start the big doses if thats what you decide to do at the end.
I agree with luv here.
The concept of large boluses post-cycle for hcg really does not make a lot of sense to me. We know that testicular cell apoptosis (i.e. "controlled cell death") occurs during cycle. Doesn't it make more sense to keep the cells exposed to an LH analog like hcg throughout the cycle to preserve your cells, rather than trying to salvage it all at the end?
As you will see, as you age and do further cycles, your recovery after cycles will be slower. You may have a lot of years of gear use ahead and there will be an effect compounded over time. At my age, I don't actually care about Sertoli cell function (the cells that produce sperm), but my Leydig cells (the cells that produce testosterone) are of paramount importance to me.
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I agree with luv here.
The concept of large boluses post-cycle for hcg really does not make a lot of sense to me. We know that testicular cell apoptosis (i.e. "controlled cell death") occurs during cycle.
I've never heard of this, can you give me a source so I can read about it. Thanks.
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I agree with luv here.
The concept of large boluses post-cycle for hcg really does not make a lot of sense to me. We know that testicular cell apoptosis (i.e. "controlled cell death") occurs during cycle. Doesn't it make more sense to keep the cells exposed to an LH analog like hcg throughout the cycle to preserve your cells, rather than trying to salvage it all at the end?
As you will see, as you age and do further cycles, your recovery after cycles will be slower. You may have a lot of years of gear use ahead and there will be an effect compounded over time. At my age, I don't actually care about Sertoli cell function (the cells that produce sperm), but my Leydig cells (the cells that produce testosterone) are of paramount importance to me.
I totally agree with you on this point.I'd rather keep yhe cell alive for the next 10 wks.Than scramble at the end of my cycle.Unfortunatly I dropped the ball,And didn't calculate the right ammount of hcg I needed.(My bad)
So I wasn't sure if I could salvage this by starting the hcg 4 wks into my cycle.Do the larger doses at the end.Or just hold off till next time.
Hell I've done afew cycles without it.But that dont mean I dont wanna do everything I possibly can.Gotta do things Proper,Smart,Safe.
%00 i.u.=1cc Right? ::)
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Bro if you don't have the proper ancillaries to start cycle then hold off and make another order of HCG to do it right. Its you can get 5000IU for around 11.00 usd. I personally would not run cycle without HCG, but thats just me!
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I've never heard of this, can you give me a source so I can read about it. Thanks.
It's a fairly complex topic, but normal function of the seminiferous tubule is dependent on the pituitary gland and on the adjacent Leydig cells, with both FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and androgens being necessary for initiating and maintaining normal sperm production. The major site of FSH action is the Sertoli (sperm-producing) cell in the seminiferous tubules. These tubules also contain androgen receptors. Androgen is indeed essential for the initial phases of sperm production, whereas FSH is required for the terminal (end) stages of spermatid development.
The Sertoli cell can not synthesize steroid hormones de novo and is dependent on testosterone that diffuses in from the adjacent Leydig (testosterone-producing) cells. Sertoli cells then convert testosterone to estradiol and dihydrotestosterone. The tubules also produce "inhibin," a polypeptide hormone that regulates FSH secretion by the hypothalamic-pituitary axis. Inhibin is the primary physiologic regulator of FSH, but testosterone (and estradiol) also can inhibit FSH secretion.
This is a very sensitive and precise dual-control mechanism by which both the Leydig cells and the spermatogenic tubules produce factors that feed back upon the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis (HPTA) to regulate their own function. This feed back loop is disrupted when exogenous androgens are introduced into the system.
High levels of intratesticular testosterone, secreted by the leydig cells, are necessary for spermatogenesis. Intratesticular testosterone is mainly bound to androgen binding protein and secreted into the seminiferous tubules. Inside the sertoli cells, testosterone is selectively bound to the androgen receptor and activation of the receptor will result in initiation and maintenance of the spermatogenic process and inhibition of germ cell apoptosis. The androgen receptor is found in all male reproductive organs and can be stimulated by either testosterone or its more potential metabolite dihydrotestosterone. However, the exogenous administration of testosterone and its metabolite estrogen will suppress both GnRH production by the hypothalamus and LH production by the pituitary gland and subsequently suppress testicular testosterone production. High levels of testosterone are needed inside the testis and this can never be accomplished by oral or parenteral administration of androgens. Through its effects on the HPTA, AAS-induced suppression of testosterone production by the leydig cells will result in a deficient spermatogenesis, and lead to an irreversible death of testicular cells.
Why utilize hcg, then? It acts as an LH analog. Also available is the use of a LH-releasing hormone (LHRH). It is used by some physicians for chronic therapy of infertility due to hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. The problem, though, is that it is necessary in frequent boluses (25 to 200 ng/kg of body weight every 2 hours), requiring either an infusion pump or nasal application to make it practical to use. In the clinical setting, however, it does not appear to be more efficacious than gonadotropin in returning sperm counts to normal, so stick with hcg.
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nice post!!!!!
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Very well researched Freak. I'm thinking maybe you have acquired your Endo Doc degree lately didn't you? If there was a Master Doc title Freak would have it. Plus not to mention the incredible physique ;D
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I am currently off cycle, and I am taking 500 ius EOD along with .25 mg of arimidex EOD.
I am also staying on Armor thyroid (t-3/ T-4 combo) , and proviron .
So far I have been off cycle for about 6 weeks, and I have not lost any muscle at all.
In fact I think I look better now since I have lost all the excess water bloat.
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The thing about bigger jolts is they make estrogen Im quite sure. The stuff is strong.
Yeah it will give a hell of a boost (Ben Johnson's sprints?) and will blow nuts back up, but it can set you up w/ the same old estrogen setback as a big aromatizing dose of Testo. (Right when you want it least)
I'd use Nolva or some of the newer anti-aromatose stuff 4 sure w/ 1000iu.
Guy needs feel it out a bit what works for him. I'd add that I think body is more sensitive to it if never used it, or been awhile. (lower dose opportunity)
What used to be popular was doing it in the middle of a cycle too. Run hard to suppression,then HCG, run hard again.
I think the low dose during cycle makes more sense for young guys that are going to cycle off (not run HRT dose nonstop) and are concerned about maintain fertility.
I dont see a major issue w/ the no hcg 1st 4 weeks. Its Been done 4 decades.
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What used to be popular was doing it in the middle of a cycle too. Run hard to suppression,then HCG, run hard again.
I dont see a major issue w/ the no hcg 1st 4 weeks. Its Been done 4 decades.
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This has always worked very well for me.
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Heres my thinking contrary to many think AS use is a supplement you are supplementing yor natural testosterone with whatever you are using however if you shutdown your natural production now it becomes not a supplement but just a norm you are now taking AS to reach your normal level and then crashing right after, if however you run a small amount of HCG lets say 200 e6d or e5d then you are now keeping your testes normal and still supplementing furthering the gains that you have. Now when you are done with your cycle begin running say nolvadex imed. after last AS shot and about a week later throw in aromasin and you have the perfect pct while baely if at all dropping below the norm
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Heres my thinking contrary to many think AS use is a supplement you are supplementing yor natural testosterone with whatever you are using however if you shutdown your natural production now it becomes not a supplement but just a norm you are now taking AS to reach your normal level and then crashing right after, if however you run a small amount of HCG lets say 200 e6d or e5d then you are now keeping your testes normal and still supplementing furthering the gains that you have. Now when you are done with your cycle begin running say nolvadex imed. after last AS shot and about a week later throw in aromasin and you have the perfect pct while baely if at all dropping below the norm
So Slin, your vote is for using HCG (200 every 5-6 days) thru your whole cycle.?
I take it you change up your insulin post cycle. Maybe you dont want to tell the competition, but they aint diabetic.
You got us wondering about the bridge comment & AAS vs Peptides ;D
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This cycle Im getting ready to start I will be pinning HCG 300-500 2X per week! We'll see how that works vs. e5d.
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I think thats to much ad remember supplementing not taking over stay with what works and if you do experiment thank you in advance its guys like you that build the way for BB coming up. Yes I definetly advocate using through out 200 is perfect it will keep you normal while not shutingdown.
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I think thats to much ad remember supplementing not taking over stay with what works and if you do experiment thank you in advance its guys like you that build the way for BB coming up. Yes I definetly advocate using through out 200 is perfect it will keep you normal while not shutingdown.
Does that depend on how long your on cycle? I am embarking on a 20 week voyage. Then if you are using during cycle, you omit it in pct and never allowing yourself to reach shutdown? Interesting...
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I think 20 weeks of HCG is much much to much this will shut you down. however you could try running it 8 weeks then taking 2 off then running it again just enough to give the little guys a hanging break