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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Butterbean on January 26, 2007, 06:45:29 AM
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CATHOLICISM CHRISTIANITY
Authority Scripture and tradition Scripture
Bible Includes apocrypha Excludes apocrypha
Salvation Received at Water Baptism By Grace thru Faith in Christ
(conditional-can lose it by sinning) (unconditional)
Transubstantiation Accepted Rejected
Purgatory Accepted Rejected
Prayer to dead saints Accepted Rejected
Priests Certain men as mediators All believers are priests
more later...
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CATHOLICISM CHRISTIANITY
Authority Scripture and tradition Scripture
Bible Includes apocrypha Excludes apocrypha
Salvation Received at Water Baptism By Grace thru Faith in Christ
(conditional-can lose it by sinning) (unconditional)
Transubstantiation Accepted Rejected
Purgatory Accepted Rejected
Prayer to dead saints Accepted Rejected
Priests Certain men as mediators All believers are priests
more later...
Good post. Keep them coming. :)
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What cracks me up is that starting with King Henry VIII, everyone that wanted to make Christianity fit their life slightly altered Catholicism and made another Christian off-shoot.
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CATHOLICISM CHRISTIANITY
The Pope Believed to be the "Vicar of Christ," Pope is a fallible man
the representative of Christ on earth,
thus speaks w/infallibility.
The last dead pope considered Mary Mary is not divine.
a co-redeemer w/Christ.
Last Rites A priest must forgive your sins God forgives your sins
when you accept Christ
more later...
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Stella,
Some of those arent true, Pergatory was done away with years ago. Its no longer true that only a priest can grant forgiveness of sins, although Catholics are encouraged to go confession regularly. An it is believed that Mary is devine since she was the only one (other than Christ) with out sin.
XOXOX
your buddy
Humungous
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Pergatory was done away with years ago. Its no longer true that only a priest can grant forgiveness of sins, although Catholics are encouraged to go confession regularly.
Are you sure about this? I'm from a country that's 99% Catholic and I've never heard that Purgatory was done away with, or that a priest is not the only one who can grant forgiveness of sin.
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did not know..
thanx 4 the info...
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Pergatory was done away with years ago.
Straight from the Vatican:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2N.HTM
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How can you compare Roman Catholism with "Christianity"??
That's bullshit, because catholism is a christian sect.
You can compare catholism with protestantism.
But your comparison is like comparing budweiser and beer.
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catholism is a christian sect.
Guess that's a matter of personal opinion. Many Christians would say that your statement is debatable. Many protestants believe that the Roman Catholic church is a cult.
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Stella,
Some of those arent true, Pergatory was done away with years ago. Its no longer true that only a priest can grant forgiveness of sins, although Catholics are encouraged to go confession regularly. An it is believed that Mary is devine since she was the only one (other than Christ) with out sin.
XOXOX
your buddy
Humungous
Hi Budmungous!
I hope I'm not bumming you out and I really appreciate your input here. :)
Do you know where is it written in a regular bible that Mary was without sin?
How does the church explain this scripture?
"And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." Luke 1:46-47
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Guess that's a matter of personal opinion. Many Christians would say that your statement is debatable. Many protestants believe that the Roman Catholic church is a cult.
hahaa, if anything, roman catholicism is the ONLY christianity. Anything else has evolved from it.
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hahaa, if anything, roman catholicism is the ONLY christianity. Anything else has evolved from it.
Christianity existed 400 years before the Roman Catholic church was born, but I don't really want to argue about this.
This thread is about Christians killing Jews and Muslims, but the fact is that it was the Roman Catholic Church that killed Jews, Muslims and non-Catholic Christians. Why? Because they would not submit to the Roman Catholic Church doctrine, beliefs and traditions. In other words, they would not let the Roman Catholic Church rule their lives. How was the United States of America born? European Christians came to America seeking religious freedom, fleeing oppression from the Roman Catholic Church.
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Christianity existed 400 years before the Roman Catholic church was born, but I don't really want to argue about this.
This thread is about Christians killing Jews and Muslims, but the fact is that it was the Roman Catholic Church that killed Jews, Muslims and non-Catholic Christians. Why? Because they would not submit to the Roman Catholic Church doctrine, beliefs and traditions. In other words, they would not let the Roman Catholic Church rule their lives. How was the United States of America born? Europeans came to America seeking religious freedom, fleeing oppression from the Roman Catholic Church.
Nothing to argue with that.
But, according to the catolic church, you'll go to hell for this post. ;)
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But, according to the catolic church, you'll go to hell for this post. ;)
I know. ;D
That's why I go by the Bible, and not by what they tell me.
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From what i understand,the Catholic church was formed by Constantine to save his empire from being torn apart.It melded the pagan beliefs of the Romans with some teachings of Christ.It isnt an accurate representation of what Christ wanted from his followers.I mean really..Popes that used their enormous influence to torture and kill anyone who read the Bible surely cant be "from God".I know many many Catholics are good people but if u look at history,the Catholic church has a lot of blood on their hands.
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From what i understand,the Catholic church was formed by Constantine to save his empire from being torn apart.It melded the pagan beliefs of the Romans with some teachings of Christ.It isnt an accurate representation of what Christ wanted from his followers.I mean really..Popes that used their enormous influence to torture and kill anyone who read the Bible surely cant be "from God".I know many many Catholics are good people but if u look at history,the Catholic church has a lot of blood on their hands.
Shhh, don't say that too loud.
Aww fuck it, i hate that hypocrite monotheistic idiots. Roman-catholicism. wtf??
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Shhh, don't say that too loud.
Aww f**k it, i hate that hypocrite monotheistic idiots. Roman-catholicism. wtf??
Vatican setting up to waste me as we speak.. :P
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This whole thread is based on a false premise.
Simply because Catholicism is a form of Christianity.
There are three major forms of Christianity, and those are Catholicism, Protestantism and the Greek-Russian Ortodox Christianity.
Within Protestantism, there are tons of different churchs, such as the methodist, the baptist, et al.
But comparing Catholicism with "Christianity"... ::)
Puhleaze. That's extremely uneducated. After all, it was Martin Luther, Kalvin and their followers that left the Vatican. Not the other way around.
So if anything, Catholicism is Christianity.
Just ask yourself who the first pope was.. ;)
-Hedge
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i could never follow catholism
too much hockus pokus for me
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This whole thread is based on a false premise.
Simply because Catholicism is a form of Christianity.
There are three major forms of Christianity, and those are Catholicism, Protestantism and the Greek-Russian Ortodox Christianity.
Within Protestantism, there are tons of different churchs, such as the methodist, the baptist, et al.
But comparing Catholicism with "Christianity"... ::)
Puhleaze. That's extremely uneducated. After all, it was Martin Luther, Kalvin and their followers that left the Vatican. Not the other way around.
So if anything, Catholicism is Christianity.
Just ask yourself who the first pope was.. ;)
-Hedge
Disagree ...the Catholic church is just a variation of Christianity.The most popular variation .As previous posts have pointed out they have doctrines that are nowhere to be found in the Bible.Stuff like worshipping the virgin mary,easter, and christmas have their origins in Roman pagan worship.Just another example is the fact that priests are supposed to be celibate.Im pretty sure thats just a man made rule.It isnt even natural!
And dont get me started on the Crusades,the Inquistions,and the roles the Catholic church had to play in various wars.Just because its popular ,doesnt make it right..
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I am a practising roman catholic from ireland. if ne one interested post me questions on this and ill answer as best i can.
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I am a practising roman catholic from ireland. if ne one interested post me questions on this and ill answer as best i can.
ahahahaaaa, a true catholic!!! Always a missionary!!
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O.....K.....was just trying to give insight into my beliefs. have we anyone over 7 who is interested?
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All other Christian branches have come from Catholicism.
Greek Othordox after the Great Schism.
Church of England from King Henry wanting divorce...
etc, etc, etc
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I am a practising roman catholic from ireland. if ne one interested post me questions on this and ill answer as best i can.
Thanks Goudy!
1) Is it true that Roman Catholicism (RC) teaches that when you are baptized with water as a baby, you have received salvation?
2) If so, how do you reconcile this w/the biblical scriptures that teach that belief in Jesus Christ as Savior is salvation?
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Just ask yourself who the first pope was.. ;)
-Hedge
Who was the first pope Hedge? And why do you consider him so?
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Stella, the RC church teaches that the only person to be born without sin was jesus. born to a virgin. when we are baptised we are being cleansed from that original sin through the holy spirt. similarly at confirmation at age 10/11 we are being recleansed and anointed with the holy spirit.
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Disagree ...the Catholic church is just a variation of Christianity.The most popular variation .As previous posts have pointed out they have doctrines that are nowhere to be found in the Bible.Stuff like worshipping the virgin mary,easter, and christmas have their origins in Roman pagan worship.Just another example is the fact that priests are supposed to be celibate.Im pretty sure thats just a man made rule.It isnt even natural!
And dont get me started on the Crusades,the Inquistions,and the roles the Catholic church had to play in various wars.Just because its popular ,doesnt make it right..
You disagree with me.
Yet, this is what I wrote:
Simply because Catholicism is a form of Christianity.
And this is what you wrote:
Disagree ...the Catholic church is just a variation of Christianity.
I don't understand? To me it seems like you're in agreement?
-Hedge
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All other Christian branches have come from Catholicism.
Greek Othordox after the Great Schism.
Church of England from King Henry wanting divorce...
etc, etc, etc
Great post.
Short, but very clarifying.
-Hedge
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Who was the first pope Hedge? And why do you consider him so?
Simon Peter.
Why? ???
He's widely considered the first pope and one of the founders of Christianity.
-Hedge
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Stella, the RC church teaches that the only person to be born without sin was jesus. born to a virgin. when we are baptised we are being cleansed from that original sin through the holy spirt. similarly at confirmation at age 10/11 we are being recleansed and anointed with the holy spirit.
That's interesting. I had always heard that the RC church taught that Mary was born w/o sin also. Good to hear they actually don't.
As for the baptism, are you saying that people water-baptizing a baby cleanses it from sin? Does RC believe that an infant that dies before it has a chance to be baptized goes to hell?
What are the requirements for "confirmation?"
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Simon Peter.
Why? ???
He's widely considered the first pope and one of the founders of Christianity.
-Hedge
That is another difference between RC and the Bible.
from: www.biblestudylessons.co m/cgi-bin/gospel_way/peter_as_pope.php
Was the Apostle Peter the first Pope, the earthly head of the church according to the Bible? Was he the Chief Shepherd, the Supreme Pontiff, and Vicar of Christ? Is the Roman Catholic church the true church as proved by a succession of the Papacy since Peter? Does the Bishop of Rome have authority to declare church law? Does the Bible teach that the Papacy is the foundation of the church? What about celibacy? Should we bow to honor the Pope as the Holy Father?
Introduction:
Several religious groups teach as fundamental doctrine that Peter was the first earthly head and Chief Shepherd (pastor) of the church, and modern church leaders are his successors. Others claim that the Papacy is the foundation of the church. Consider this quotation:
"The Pope ... is the bishop of Rome and the Vicar of Christ on earth. He is the visible head of the whole Catholic Church ... Who was the first Pope? St. Peter, who was made Pope by Jesus Christ Himself ... Did Peter's authority die with him? No, it was handed down to a man named Linus, and after he died, it was handed down to another, and so on, during the past 2000 years ... Does Jesus require us to follow the Pope in matters of religion? Yes, because obedience and loyalty to the Pope are among the chief requirements of the Lord's plan for unity in His church" (A Catechism for Adults, by William Cogan, 1975 ed., pp. 55,56).
In this study we want to see what the Bible says about this doctrine. If it is true, as important as it is, we will surely find it in the Bible.
We have no personal ill-will toward any, nor do we want to misrepresent anyone. But we do urge people to seek for truth with an open mind. "Put your own selves to the test, whether you are in the faith; prove yourselves" (2 Corinthians 13:5). To do this we must "study the Scriptures every day to see whether these things are so" (Acts 17:11). No one should fear to examine his beliefs according to the Bible.
(Note: all Scripture quotations will be from the St. Joseph New Catholic Edition of the Holy Bible - Confraternity Edition. All other quotations are from officially recognized Roman Catholic sources.)
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Part I. Did Jesus Establish the Office of Pope?
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Obviously Peter could be Pope only if Jesus authorized the existence of that office. So let us consider what Jesus' word says.
A. The Office & Qualifications of the Pope
Are Nowhere Mentioned in the Scriptures.
The Bible specifically names several offices in the church and describes the work and qualifications of those who hold that office.
Office Named Qualifications Work
Apostles Eph. 4:11; Matt. 10:2-4;
Luke 6:13-16 Acts 1:21-26;
2 Cor. 12:11,12 Eph. 3:3-5;
Acts 10:39-41
Elders or Bishops Phil. 1:1; Acts 14:23;
Eph. 4:11 1 Tim. 3:1-7;
Titus 1:5-9 Acts 20:28;
1 Peter 5:1-3
Deacons Phil. 1:1 1 Tim. 3:8-13 Acts 6:1-6
The Bible contains several passages where the office of Pope ought to be mentioned, if it existed. Ephesians 4:11,12 and 1 Corinthians 12:28 list various officers and workers in the church, but the office of Pope is not mentioned. Why not?
Paul wrote several letters to and from Rome, naming many people there (Rom. 16; Col. 4:7-14; 2 Tim. 4:9-22; Philem. 23,24). If Peter was Pope in Rome, surely Paul would have mentioned him. But Paul mentions neither Peter nor anyone else as being Pope.
Who can imagine someone today writing official letters to or from the church in Rome, listing the officers of the Catholic Church, giving all this information about the work and qualifications of lesser officers, but never mentioning the Pope? If the office of Pope was established by Jesus, why does the New Testament fail to mention it?
B. The Bible Says Jesus Is the Head of the Church.
The Pope is believed to be the head of the church, but note:
Ephesians 1:22,23 - Jesus is head over all things to the church (cf. Col. 1:18). What is there left for a Pope to be head of?
Ephesians 5:22-24 - A husband is head of his wife as Jesus is head of the church. But for a wife to submit to two husbands is adultery (Rom. 7:2,3). So for the church to submit to two heads (Jesus and the Pope) would be spiritual adultery.
Matthew 28:18-20 - Christ has all authority in heaven and on earth. He is the one lawgiver (James 4:12). To claim that the Pope may issue religious laws is to deny the unique power of Jesus.
The Bible plainly states that Jesus is Head of the church. He is the one Lord in the one body (church). There cannot be two Lords any more than there could be two Gods (Eph. 4:4-6). Bishops (even from Rome) are forbidden to lord it over the flock (1 Peter 5:1-3).
C. The Bible Says Jesus Is the Church's Foundation.
"The primacy of St. Peter was ... an essential part of Christ's church, the rock on which it was built ... The House of God will always need its foundation" (The Question Box, Bertrand Conway, 1929 Edition, pp. 153,154).
Hence, the authority of Popes is said to be the foundation of the Catholic Church. But the Bible says:
God's church has a divine foundation.
1 Corinthians 3:11 - There can be no foundation other than Jesus.
1 Peter. 2:3-8 - Peter himself taught that Jesus is the chief cornerstone on which the church is built. [Cf. Acts 4:10-12.]
Matthew 16:13-18 - This passage is often used to try to prove Peter is the foundation of the church (Catechism, p. 56; Question Box, p. 146). But the passages already studied prove that Jesus, not Peter or the Pope, is the foundation of the church. Matthew 16. actually confirms this truth.
The context (v13,15,16) is not discussing who Peter is nor what his position is, but who Jesus is and what His position is. The passage does not exalt Peter; it exalts Jesus. Jesus does not confess Peter; Peter confesses Jesus.
The verse is not saying Peter is the rock on which the church is built, but rather it contrasts Peter's name (Greek PETROS, masculine - a piece of rock) to the rock on which the church would be built (Greek PETRA, feminine - a solid ledge of rock).
Jesus often compared Himself to inanimate objects - a temple (John 2:18-22), a door (John 10:7), a vine (John 15:1-11). Here He compares Himself to a rock, a name often used for Deity in the Old Testament (Psa. 31:3; 71:3; 89:26ff; 18:2f,32f).
The foundation of the church is not Peter. It is the truth that Peter had just confessed - that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God (v16). This is confirmed by the context and by other Scriptures. To say Peter is the foundation would be to put a man in the place of Deity!
The lives of Peter and of the Popes make them entirely unfit to be the foundation of Jesus' church.
Consider some great sins in the life of Peter.
* Immediately after talking about the foundation of the church, Christ rebuked Peter saying: "Get behind me, satan, thou art a scandal to me; for thou dost not mind the things of God, but those of men" (Matthew 16:21-23).
* Peter denied Jesus 3 times, even with curses and swearing (Matthew 26:69-75).
* Jesus rebuked Peter's lack of faith (Matthew 14:22-31).
* Peter was hypocritical and disobeyed the gospel (Galatians 2:11ff).
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That is another difference between RC and the Bible.
You can quote bible sites all you want.
Doesn't change the fact that Catholicism is the oldest form of Christianity, the original form if you will, and that all forms of Christianity developed from it.
You're trying to make a case of the fact that Peter wasn't suited to be Pope. It's not the issue. He was the Pope, whether you think he was suited for it or not. And the church you are a member of, as incredible it sounds, has roots from that very church.
Why?
Again, all Christian churches stems from Catholicism. That is a fact. The reason the churches are no longer Catholic, are because of differences.
A few interesting notes on Martin Luther, the man who created protestantism, the kind of Christianity you confess to:
Martin Luther had no problems with the Pope being head of the church to begin with, it was the sale of indulgences he had a problem with, and he thought only God could pardon sins.
Martin Luther was excommunicated. Had he not been, the protestant and reformist churches would probably not have surfaced.
Martin Luther was a very interesting character.
-Hedge
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That's interesting. I had always heard that the RC church taught that Mary was born w/o sin also. Good to hear they actually don't.
Actually the Roman Catholic faith does believe that Mary was also born free from original sin, it was declared by a Pope in the late 19th century.
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That's interesting. I had always heard that the RC church taught that Mary was born w/o sin also. Good to hear they actually don't.
As for the baptism, are you saying that people water-baptizing a baby cleanses it from sin? Does RC believe that an infant that dies before it has a chance to be baptized goes to hell?
What are the requirements for "confirmation?"
it is true that our church teaches that mary gave birth when a virgin. there is a feast day known as the feast of the immaculate conception.
confirmation is one of the 7 sacraments it was the 4th i recieved after baptism, first confession, communion and confirmation. it is when u are recognised as a full member of the catholic church and the holy spirt is said to come uon us. sybloically these are represented by the catholic church as doves and tongues of fire.
www.catholic.org is a good site.
im not 100pc about the baby thing. however a child is christend a few eeeks after being born. this is typically done in the church and all as part of a service with water candles etc. however anyone full member of the catholic church (ie sumone who has been confirmed) can baptise a child in an emergency using if needs be thir thumb and spittle. this can often happen in hospital.
i enjoying this thread ne more questions stella. i doubt it teaches the child will not go to heavean.
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Catholic comes from the Greek, KATHOLIKOS, which means "throughout the whole, or universal," and was used as a general reference to the entire Christian church until the reformation period. However, as early as the fourth century, the Catholic church began adopting traditions and beliefs which were never a part of original Christianity as seen in the New Testament. It appears that many of these new ideas first emerged from the era of the Roman Emperor, Constantine who ruled from 313 to 337 A.D.
In contrast to his predecessor, Diocletian, who had vowed to destroy Christianity in 303, Constantine claimed a conversion to Christianity and virtually instituted it as the empire's religion by his Edict of Milan in 313 A.D. This proclamation of religious freedom brought about many positive changes for the church, and was certainly a much welcomed turnabout from the years of brutal persecution. But instead of converting completely from the old practices of paganism, this and the new Christian religion were somewhat mingled together. Since an Emperor was viewed as a god by pagan standards, and he already held the lifelong position of "Pontifex Maximus," chief priest of the pagan state religion, Constantine felt it only proper that he should also claim a high position of leadership in the church — he also authorized many of his secular officials as church leaders. This merger of a pagan, Christian and political hierarchy, produced a diluted spiritual leadership for the church, and its beliefs and doctrines thereafter became increasingly infected with a strange combination of traditions and pagan beliefs.
The Christian creed adopted at the Council of Nicaea in 325 (called for and presided over by Constantine) was theologically encouraging, but it was also in this era that the church first accepted such unscriptural ideas as praying for the dead, the veneration of angels and dead saints, the use of images, and the celebration of daily mass. This regression from scripture continued through the Council of Ephesus in 431 A.D., where the worship of Mary became an official doctrine of the church, referring to her as the "Mother of God." And only nine years later in 440, Leo, bishop of Rome was the first to declare himself the successor of St. Peter and laid claim to the role of Universal Bishop, a forerunner of papal authority. While this was widely disputed, Leo commanded that all should obey him on the false notion that he held the primacy of St. Peter.
Later, Leo's successor, Gregory I, was given the title of universal "Pope" (Latin "papas" or father) by the wicked emperor Phocas in 604. He refused the title, however his successor, Boniface III, did accept it and became the first in a long line of successors to be recognized as Pope. Under the new papal authority in the seventh century, many more new beliefs were added to the church, such as the unbiblical doctrine of purgatory (593), the required use of Latin in prayer and worship (600), and prayers said to Mary, dead saints and angels (600).
One reason many of these strange ideas gained accepted credibility was because the Bible was not readily available to the common people, either in print or in translation. They had no idea what the Bible really taught. It was restricted only to priests trained to interpret it as it pleased the church hierarchy. Further, the popes claimed the authority to speak under the unique utterance of "Ex Cathedria," which in effect meant divine inspiration. Their proclamations and decrees carried supreme authority to interpret or overrule Holy Scripture, and to invent whatever doctrines or practices they wished.
The next four hundred years saw many more new beliefs added to the church: The ritual kissing of the Pope's foot (709), temporal (political) power granted to the Pope (750), worship of the crucifix, images and relics (786), holy water mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by a priest (850), the worship of St. Joseph (890), the establishment of the college of Cardinals to elect the popes (927), the baptism of bells (965), the canonization of dead saints (995), and prescribed fastings on Fridays and during lent (998).
A break in the church occurred in 1054 over a relatively trivial issue, when the eastern church condemned the western church for the use of unleavened bread in the Eucharist. The dispute resulted in Rome's attempt to excommunicate Michael Cerulararious, the Patriarch of Constantinople, who in turn, sought to excommunicate Pope Leo IX of Rome. From that time, the western (Roman Catholic) church and the eastern (Greek Orthodox) churches developed separately — each with their distinct traditions. A classic example of a church split.
As the Roman Catholic Church continued with new independence, it added even more remarkable doctrines that were not taken from the Bible. In 1079, Pope Gregory VII declared the shocking decree of celibacy for the priesthood. Peter the Hermit invented the technique of praying with rosary beads in 1090. A few of the other beliefs and practices authorized by the church were: The inquisition of alleged heretics (1184), the sale of indulgences (1190), the doctrine of transubstantiation (1215), auricular confession of sins to a priest instead of to God (1215), adoration of the wafer (1220), the forbidding of Bible reading by laity (1229), the scapular (1251), the forbidding of sharing the communion cup with laity (1414), the establishment of purgatory as an irrefutable dogma (1439), and the composition of the "Ave Maria" (1508).
Up to this point, the somewhat similar Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches were the two main institutions representing Christianity. But in the sixteenth century, events occurred which would bring a worldshaking reformation of Christian thought. A Catholic monk and professor of theology named Martin Luther, became convinced that the Bible was the only true authority in matters of spiritual instruction, and sought to reform the church with this new insight and to expose its errant doctrines...
...In 1529, at the Diet of Speyer, the Emperor Charles V attempted to smother Luther's movement by force, but some of the German state princes stood up in protest. Thus, because of their protest, the movement began to be known as the "Protestants." What had originally been intended to bring reform to Catholicism from within, was now an ousted reformation, forced to split from the original body...
..This is a brief explanation of the historical origin of Catholics and Protestants, and as you can see, the disparities are many. But in the simplest of terms, the basic difference between them is the authority they look to for their beliefs. The Protestant Church generally embraces the Bible as its sole source of authority and faith, while the Catholic Church views the post-biblical traditions of the church and its Popes to have more than equal authority with scripture.
http://www.victorious.org/chur40.htm
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a note of interest if for example if a catholiuc such as my self was in holiday in an orthodox country liek greece then we are able to attend an orthodox mass instead of a traditional catholic mass. similarly oif a greek was here on holiday then they could similarly attend a catholic service.
celibacy is reletively recent in the catholic church. also women not beinmg able to say mass is a concern here in ireland as there are a real shortage of priests. should nuns be ablke to perform mass etc.....? perhaps.
i think that the celibacy could perhaps be dropped however this may interfere with the job as he would have other commitments and is not soley married to god so to speak. also i believe nuns should be able tpo perfom mass etc. we can keep traditions the same and beliefs the same however it i smecessary to evole as society does too
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a note of interest if for example if a catholiuc such as my self was in holiday in an orthodox country liek greece then we are able to attend an orthodox mass instead of a traditional catholic mass. similarly oif a greek was here on holiday then they could similarly attend a catholic service.
celibacy is reletively recent in the catholic church. also women not beinmg able to say mass is a concern here in ireland as there are a real shortage of priests. should nuns be ablke to perform mass etc.....? perhaps.
i think that the celibacy could perhaps be dropped however this may interfere with the job as he would have other commitments and is not soley married to god so to speak. also i believe nuns should be able tpo perfom mass etc. we can keep traditions the same and beliefs the same however it i smecessary to evole as society does too
Goudy,
Thanks very much for your good attitude, feedback and input! I'm so glad that this thread has not turned into a war between Roman Catholics and Protestants! That's not what I want.
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In our rural areas.
We have Orthodox Ukrainians that will attend Catholic services and vise versa. This is mainly due to to few Ukrainian tradition churches.
The movement of Ethiopian orthodox and gnostic Egyptian churches, where around earlier than the catholic church and were started through the first round of missionaries, by Paul.
As a protestant Lutheran, I have followed many traditions that are still included in the Catholic service were they have been dropped by other denominations. Anglicans also have their own rules as well.
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Thought id give a little insight into a typical vigil/sunday service in catholicism.
basically its 30mins long (well in my parish) most are longer our priest doesnt waffle and gets straight to the point.
At the start we are welcomed wioth very short prayers.
Then we have the first reading
followed by 3-4 prayers and a short response.
then a second reading
followed by the gospel acclimation (very short prayer)
then the gospel.
Then we would have a sermon or preaching this is the priests own choice. however i feel that many people lose interest if the priest is inconceise and waffles. in my church its maybe 5 mins max.
then we have the collection.
then the most sacred part of teh service the consecration...this is where transubstanbtiation happens and the bread and whine is blessed and mimics what happened at the last supper.
then we recieve communion
we get a final blesisng and thats it
:) any questions peeps
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Goudy,
Thanks very much for your good attitude, feedback and input! I'm so glad that this thread has not turned into a war between Roman Catholics and Protestants! That's not what I want.
Ditto that. :)
followed by the gospel acclimation (very short prayer)
then the gospel.
:) any questions peeps
Thanks Goudy :)
Could you please post the "gospel acclimation" prayer?
And when your church presents the gospel, what all does that involve? Specifically, do they mention Christ dying for our sins and then living again and believing on Him brings salvation? Is Mary mentioned during the gospel message?
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Stella,
Some of those arent true, Pergatory was done away with years ago. Its no longer true that only a priest can grant forgiveness of sins, although Catholics are encouraged to go confession regularly. An it is believed that Mary is devine since she was the only one (other than Christ) with out sin.
XOXOX
your buddy
Humungous
Untrue.... purgatory is still a belief of the catholic church
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Thanks Goudy
Could you please post the "gospel acclimation" prayer?
And when your church presents the gospel, what all does that involve? Specifically, do they mention Christ dying for our sins and then living again and believing on Him brings salvation? Is Mary mentioned during the gospel message?
A common misconception of the Catholic church is that it worships mary...... This is untrue...... When we "pray to Mary" as some call it we are asking mary to interceed for us and ask Jesus for what we are praying for
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A common misconception of the Catholic church is that it worships mary...... This is untrue...... When we "pray to Mary" as some call it we are asking mary to interceed for us and ask Jesus for what we are praying for
Hey benjamin! Can you answer some questions about that?
Do Catholics believe that Mary is just like GOD, almighty, knowing all, being everywhere at the same time? Can she hear and understand millions of prayers in many different languages from all over the world at the same time? How does that work?
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A common misconception of the Catholic church is that it worships mary...... This is untrue...... When we "pray to Mary" as some call it we are asking mary to interceed for us and ask Jesus for what we are praying for
How do you feel about these scriptures:
1 Tim 2:5
"For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus."
Deuteronomy 18:10-12
'Let no one be found among you ... who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord'
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Hey benjamin! Can you answer some questions about that?
Do Catholics believe that Mary is just like GOD, almighty, knowing all, being everywhere at the same time? Can she hear and understand millions of prayers in many different languages from all over the world at the same time? How does that work?
Mary is not seen as a God but rather a mediator between man and God....... When I was first being brought up in the church it was explained to me this way...... Would Jesus be more inclined to do the will of you a sinner, or of his own mother??? So when you think about it we are asking Mary to ask God something which is important to us and askiung her to join us in prayer for our intention
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Mary is not seen as a God but rather a mediator between man and God....... When I was first being brought up in the church it was explained to me this way...... Would Jesus be more inclined to do the will of you a sinner, or of his own mother??? So when you think about it we are asking Mary to ask God something which is important to us and askiung her to join us in prayer for our intention
Yes, I was told that too at school, by friends, etc. But they never answered the question that I asked you. How does Mary go about hearing millions of prayers in different languages from all over the world at the same time, day and night. Only GOD can do that. Did they ever explain that part to you?
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IMO Mary was afforded these graces from God...... Jesus said to St. John Behold thy son which symbolizes Mary as the mother to mankind......
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IMO Mary was afforded these graces from God...... Jesus said to St. John Behold thy son which symbolizes Mary as the mother to mankind......
Ask a priest the same questions I've asked you. A Catholic priest said that only GOD has those characteristics, only GOD is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. Only GOD can hear and answer all those prayers in all those different languages, all at the same time. When asked how can Mary do this, the priest said that GOD receives the prayers to Mary, then translates them, one at a time, so she can understand them. The priest was then told "If that's they case, then we should go straight to GOD and skip Mary." The priest had nothing to say to that.
Ask and see if you get a different answer.
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will do
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How do you feel about these scriptures:
1 Tim 2:5
"For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus."
Deuteronomy 18:10-12
'Let no one be found among you ... who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord'
....and thanks for engaging in this conversation bp :)
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The only way I can explain those quotes is that tradition also plays a key role in our beliefs and these beliefs are central to our faith
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The only way I can explain those quotes is that tradition also plays a key role in our beliefs and these beliefs are central to our faith
benjamin, but what if some of those traditions contradict the word of God?
Mark 7:13
"Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."
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see honestly there is so much to talk about the catholic church. its so fascinating.
its also the only faith where it can be traced from its origin to present without any gaps or long periods of time like many others.
Mary is so revereed as she was the mother of god. gave birth through immaculate conception. My church as many do have an alter dedicated to our lady.
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see honestly there is so much to talk about the catholic church. its so fascinating.
its also the only faith where it can be traced from its origin to present without any gaps or long periods of time like many others.
Mary is so revereed as she was the mother of god. gave birth through immaculate conception. My church as many do have an alter dedicated to our lady.
Interesting..... are you devoted to Mary ie do you pray the rosary etc?
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see honestly there is so much to talk about the catholic church. its so fascinating.
its also the only faith where it can be traced from its origin to present without any gaps or long periods of time like many others.
Mary is so revereed as she was the mother of god. gave birth through immaculate conception. My church as many do have an alter dedicated to our lady.
Goudy,
Yes, there is a lot to talk about in regards to the Roman Catholic Church. So what does this altar look like? Can you describe it?
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ok well in our church there are 3 altars thge main large onne in the center. our church recently got refurbished and the altar on the left was previously the sacred heart sidre tho its now dedicated to st michael the archangel. the one on the right remains dedicated to st mary. its basically a candle stand where we can pray for our inyttentions, a statue and a few paintings. also there are flowers and wee small prayers etc. ill get a photo of google ofr summat v similar and post it
BP yes i am quite devoted tho i obviouslky am no where near perfect. i go to mass every week, recieve communion ewvery week, go to mass on all holy days of obligation. tho of course i have flaws. i used to say the rosary every night every may (the month of mary) with my famnily and every november (the month of the dead) thpo as we got older i stopped tho my mum and dad still say it. my dad prays every night, a ouyple of times. u c him take out his rosary ring.
He has a bible full of photos of us and prayers and a wee family prayer book where each night gives u a wee passage from the boble to read. this sounds mad tho he is no bible basher.
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here is a crucifix my dad owns which he got from his mum, who in turn was given it as a child. i think its so class. it opens up to reveal 6 saints inside. i just thoink its dead class and when i was sick i kept it under my pillow.
st gabriel, st paul, st vince i, st gemmae, st dominic, st maria.
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Cool Cross man!
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thanks man i think its cool as hell.
nemore questions folks
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Hi Budmungous!
I hope I'm not bumming you out and I really appreciate your input here. :)
Do you know where is it written in a regular bible that Mary was without sin?
How does the church explain this scripture?
"And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." Luke 1:46-47
Stella,
Mary was without sin at least up until the time she gave birth to Jesus. Here is why, can we agree that the sin nature of man is in all of us? Every fiber of our body crys out to do our will and not the lords. Sometimes we do right but some times not, agreed? Our purpose in existence is to bare witness on the day of judgement when God will open the book of life to see who's name is written in it. If your name is, you have led a just and righteous life. In simple terms score one for God! If we are not in the book we will go to the lake of fire to be tormented forever and ever, score one for Satan. God being perfect in all ways knew this, and he also knew the only way to by pass the sin nature in all men (since its in every molecule that makes up our body) he must bypass the normal means to bring his son to earth. Mary was divine and Joseph had no relations with her, so Jesus would not be tainted with the evil sin nature of man. After Jesus was born.... well thats another story ;D
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can we agree that the sin nature of man is in all of us? Sometimes we do right but some times not, agreed?
agree
If your name is [in the book of life], you have led a just and righteous life. In simple terms score one for God!
I believe those whose names are in the book of life are people that accepted Christ as Savior...I think that is what you are saying here and we agree :)
Mary was divine and Joseph had no relations with her, so Jesus would not be tainted with the evil sin nature of man. After Jesus was born.... well thats another story ;D
But if Mary was divine, how could and why did she sin later? Is this teaching anywhere in the bible or is it a traditional Catholic doctrine?
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CATHOLICISM CHRISTIANITY
Authority Scripture and tradition Scripture
Bible Includes apocrypha Excludes apocrypha
Salvation Received at Water Baptism By Grace thru Faith in Christ
(conditional-can lose it by sinning) (unconditional)
Transubstantiation Accepted Rejected
Purgatory Accepted Rejected
Prayer to dead saints Accepted Rejected
Priests Certain men as mediators All believers are priests
more later...
www.justforcatholics.org
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www.justforcatholics.org
Welcome, Blue Heat! Thanks for the website. I've been reading it and it's great.
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You should hit the Q and A section. Very comprehensive.
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Interesting site Blue Heat. Thanks!