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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on January 26, 2007, 06:56:34 PM
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Good for him. Shame on Canada.
Canada compensates man U.S. deported to Syria
POSTED: 5:24 p.m. EST, January 26, 2007
Story Highlights• NEW: Maher Arar: The struggle to clear my name has been long and hard
• Arar will receive a reported US$8.9 million compensation from Canada
• Prime minister formally apologizes for role in Arar's deportation
• U.S. deported Arar to Syria; Arar says Syria tortured him
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OTTAWA, Canada (AP) -- Canada's prime minister apologized to Maher Arar on Friday and announced the government would compensate him C$10.5 million (US$8.9 million) for its role in his deportation from the U.S. to Syria, where he was tortured while held in prison for nearly a year.
Prime Minister Stephen Harper again called on the U.S. government to remove the Ottawa telecoms engineer from any of its no-fly or terrorist watchlists and reiterated that Ottawa would keep pressing Washington to clear Arar's name.
"We think the evidence is absolutely clear and that the United States should in good faith remove Mr. Arar from the list," Harper told a news conference in Ottawa. "We don't intend to either change or drop our position."
The U.S. government has repeatedly insisted it has reasons to leave the 37-year-old on its watchlists. The issue has grown into an unpleasant diplomatic row between the world's largest trading partners and closest allies.
The Syrian-born Arar, who moved to Canada with his family when he was 17, is the best-known case of rendition, a practice in which the U.S. government sends foreign terror suspects to third countries for interrogation.
Arar thanked the Canadian government at a news conference Friday.
"The struggle to clear my name has been long and hard; my kids have suffered silently and I feel that I owe them a lot," said Arar, who also thanked Canadians for standing by him. (Watch Arar tell of family's heartache )
"Without the support of the Canadian people, I may never have come home and I would not have been able to stay strong and push for the truth," he said.
A 'terrible ordeal'
Arar was detained at New York's John F. Kennedy Airport in 2002 during a stopover on his way home to Canada from a vacation with his family in Tunisia.
He said he was chained and shackled by U.S. authorities for 11 days during interrogation and then flown to Syria, where he was tortured and forced to make false confessions.
He was released 10 months later, with Syrian officials saying they had no reason to hold him further.
"On behalf of the government of Canada, I want to extend a full apology to you and Monia as well as your family for the role played by Canadian officials in the terrible ordeal that you experienced in 2002 and 2003," Harper said. Arar and his wife, Monia Mazigh, and their young son and daughter now live in Kamloops, British Columbia.
"I sincerely hope that these words and actions will assist you and your family in your efforts to begin a new and hopeful chapter in your lives," Harper said, adding the compensation package would also pay for his estimated $1 million in legal fees.
Arar was exonerated last September after a two-year public inquiry led by Associate Chief Justice of Ontario Dennis O'Connor.
It found that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police wrongly labeled Arar as an Islamic fundamentalist and passed misleading and inaccurate information to U.S. authorities, which very likely led to Arar's arrest and deportation.
The report pointed out that Arar's inability to find work since his return from Syria has had a devastating economic and psychological impact on him and his family.
O'Connor urged the RCMP to usher in a raft of policy changes on information sharing, training and monitoring of security probes. In the aftermath, RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli resigned over his handling of the file.
Cross-border tensions
The U.S. District Court of Appeals last February dismissed Arar's lawsuit against U.S. government officials, ruling the deportation of the dual Syrian-Canadian citizen was protected on national security grounds. His attorneys with the New York-based Center for Constitutional Rights filed an appeal in December.
"We are grateful that the Canadian government has had the humanity to try to right the terrible wrong that was done to Maher," CCR Attorney Maria LaHood said in a statement Friday. "We still hope the U.S. government will follow Canada's lead."
The new Democratic chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Sen. Patrick Leahy, earlier this month publicly scolded U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales for refusing to explain why the United States had sent a Canadian citizen to Syria.
"The Canadian government now has taken several steps to accept responsibility for its role in sending Mr. Arar to Syria, where he was tortured," Leahy said in a statement Friday. "The question remains why, even if there were reasons to consider him suspicious, the U.S. government shipped him to Syria where he was tortured, instead of to Canada for investigation or prosecution."
He said the U.S. Justice Department intended to respond to his demands next week.
U.S. Ambassador to Canada, David Wilkins, on Wednesday chastised Canadian Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day for continuing to press Washington on the Arar matter.
"It's a little presumptuous of him to say who the United States can and cannot allow into our country," Wilkins said.
In a recent letter to Day, U.S. Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff and Gonzales said U.S. files on Arar indicate the decision to keep Arar on watchlists is "appropriate."
"Our conclusion in this regard is supported by information developed by U.S. law enforcement agencies that is independent of that provided to us by Canada with regard to Mr. Arar," the letter said, adding that they wished to thank Canada for its cooperation in fighting terrorism.
Arar said his case has forced some Canadians to question their relationship to the United States, noting U.S. authorities declined to participate in Canada's federal inquiry.
"It's a question that touches all Canadians," Arar said. "Can we really trust the Americans to be our partners in the fight against terrorism?"
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/01/26/canada.apology.ap/index.html
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Good for him. Shame on Canada.
I know. Shame on Canada. Good thing the US did nothing wrong or improper in the deal.
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Shame on Canada.
Why? You don't think our Country should be trusted? Next time we know of a terror suspect in Canada would you rather they didn't turn him over?
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Why? You don't think our Country should be trusted? Next time we know of a terror suspect in Canada would you rather they didn't turn him over?
Why? Because they wrongfully labeled a man a terrorist, gave the U.S. bad information, are directly responsible for a man being tortured, and had to pay the man $8.9 million. I would rather they have good information and NOT cause an innocent man to suffer.
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Why? Because they wrongfully labeled a man a terrorist, gave the U.S. bad information, are directly responsible for a man being tortured, and had to pay the man $8.9 million. I would rather they have good information and cause an innocent man to suffer.
beach Bum, I think your next door neighbor is releasing methane gas into the atmosphere thru his anus. (I am Canada).
You (USA) should knock him down, handcuff him, put him in the trunk of your car, and drive him down to the docks and leave him with the mob boss (Syria) to kick the shit out of him for 9 months.
When Don Beatdown can't get anything out of him, he'll return him. You will owe him 8 million for being wrong, the mob boss will get away with it because he's too cool to fcuk with. And me (the US of A) will get away with kidnapping and delivering the man to torture... um... because we fucking said so!
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Good, the guy's life and employment prospects were ruined. Payment's a little high though, i wonder how they decided on that number. Now he can be permenently retired.
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He better take his money and run. I can already see the Canadian tax authorities with their hand out to this guy: HALF!
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He better take his money and run. I can already see the Canadian tax authorities with their hand out to this guy: HALF!
He should move to America. ;D
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The most concerning thing about this whole deal is how after the guy got wrongly accused, screwed over, and exonerated by the Canadian government to the point they were compelled to pay him restitution, our pig-headed authorities still refuse to apply common sense to the situation, won't admit they were wrong, won't take the guy of the "terrorist list", and will probably wave the flag and call anyone who dares to question them "unpatriotic". This whole thing since 9/11 is like the fuccking "communist scare" of the 1950's all over again.
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This whole thing since 9/11 is like the fuccking "communist scare" of the 1950's all over again.
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This whole thing since 9/11 is like the fuccking "communist scare" of the 1950's all over again.
1930s -> nazism.
1940s -> nazism.
1950s -> communism.
1960s -> communism.
1970s -> communism.
1980s -> communism.
Communism dies...
1990s -> No major conflicts (iraq took about a sneeze to defeat but did set stage for 2000s).
2000s -> islamic extremism.
For 50 years, the mil industrial complex (collection of multi-$B corps which tell the generals what to tell the Presidents to do) did very well. in the 90s, Clinton couldn't start any wars thanks to no "boogeyman" out there. They lost money.
Communism was a GREAT boogeyman. Vague, big, scary, and they had the bomb. We justified invading everywhere because 'we think communism is getting a foothold!'. You could label any doubters a 'commie' and it'd follow them forever.
Then communism died.
What does a bouncer do if there isn't a fight for 3 weeks? HE STARTS ONE. job security, ya know.
Now we have a new vague, evil enemy who has the bomb and hates us. Anyone who questions the homeland control or world torture is called a terrorist sympathizer. We catch leaders in lies (iraq) and we don't question them. We have leaders who won't testify under oath about what they knew before 911 (bush/cheney) and we don't question them.
We milked communism til we ruled space and were the only superpower. We'll stir the embers in the islamofire for another ten or 20 years until we control all the oil. Then we'll set our eyes on the Evil Chinese Empire. Watch and see.
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1930s -> nazism.
1940s -> nazism.
1950s -> communism.
1960s -> communism.
1970s -> communism.
1980s -> communism.
Communism dies...
1990s -> No major conflicts (iraq took about a sneeze to defeat but did set stage for 2000s).
2000s -> islamic extremism.
For 50 years, the mil industrial complex (collection of multi-$B corps which tell the generals what to tell the Presidents to do) did very well. in the 90s, Clinton couldn't start any wars thanks to no "boogeyman" out there. They lost money.
Communism was a GREAT boogeyman. Vague, big, scary, and they had the bomb. We justified invading everywhere because 'we think communism is getting a foothold!'. You could label any doubters a 'commie' and it'd follow them forever.
Then communism died.
What does a bouncer do if there isn't a fight for 3 weeks? HE STARTS ONE. job security, ya know.
Now we have a new vague, evil enemy who has the bomb and hates us. Anyone who questions the homeland control or world torture is called a terrorist sympathizer. We catch leaders in lies (iraq) and we don't question them. We have leaders who won't testify under oath about what they knew before 911 (bush/cheney) and we don't question them.
We milked communism til we ruled space and were the only superpower. We'll stir the embers in the islamofire for another ten or 20 years until we control all the oil. Then we'll set our eyes on the Evil Chinese Empire. Watch and see.
I don't care if we build lots of weapons, and I don't care if we use them by going and invading a lot of little countries so the military/industrial whatever can get richer... no skin off my nose. What I do care about is the government taking away civil liberties of US citizens here at home. A lot of other people feel the same way. The powers that be would be a lot smarter if they kept the brunt of their actions outside of our borders.
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The most concerning thing about this whole deal is how after the guy got wrongly accused, screwed over, and exonerated by the Canadian government to the point they were compelled to pay him restitution, our pig-headed authorities still refuse to apply common sense to the situation, won't admit they were wrong, won't take the guy of the "terrorist list", and will probably wave the flag and call anyone who dares to question them "unpatriotic". This whole thing since 9/11 is like the fuccking "communist scare" of the 1950's all over again.
Amen. The people on the far right think it's okay that this innocent man was thrown under a bus because somehow it makes the US a little safer from the threat of terrorism. ::) Aren't a man's civil liberties supposed to be his most important assets? If the government can't respect individual rights and just hauls a man into torture chambers without any sort of trail, then is America really America anymore?
Speaking out against the government is perfectly normal, but it seems like any sort of criticism on their motives and procedures is a taboo. What's shocking is that most Americans are cool with this as though it's for their own good.
Wake up and smell the coffee people...
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Amen. The people on the far right think it's okay that this innocent man was thrown under a bus because somehow it makes the US a little safer from the threat of terrorism. ::) Aren't a man's civil liberties supposed to be his most important assets? If the government can't respect individual rights and just hauls a man into torture chambers without any sort of trail, then is America really America anymore?
Speaking out against the government is perfectly normal, but it seems like any sort of criticism on their motives and procedures is a taboo. What's shocking is that most Americans are cool with this as though it's for their own good.
Wake up and smell the coffee people...
YES!
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I don't care if we build lots of weapons, and I don't care if we use them by going and invading a lot of little countries so the military/industrial whatever can get richer... no skin off my nose. What I do care about is the government taking away civil liberties of US citizens here at home. A lot of other people feel the same way. The powers that be would be a lot smarter if they kept the brunt of their actions outside of our borders.
Good point of view.
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I don't care if we build lots of weapons, and I don't care if we use them by going and invading a lot of little countries so the military/industrial whatever can get richer... no skin off my nose. What I do care about is the government taking away civil liberties of US citizens here at home. A lot of other people feel the same way. The powers that be would be a lot smarter if they kept the brunt of their actions outside of our borders.
The only way to ensure your own rights, is to ensure the rights of others.
Once the raping & pillaging of others is concluded, it's not long before the predators turn to another food source. YOU
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Good for him. Shame on Canada.
Shame on Canada? ??? It wasn't Canada that kidnapped him and sent him away to be tortured.
I really think the US needs to step up to the plate and correct their ways because I can assure you neither the Cdn government nor the Cdn taxpayers want to be paying out additional settlements in the future, ...and it would be a shame if Canada refused to continue sharing intelligence for fear of having to pay out repeated settlements.
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Shame on Canada? ??? It wasn't Canada that kidnapped him and sent him away to be tortured.
I really think the US needs to step up to the plate and correct their ways because I can assure you neither the Cdn government nor the Cdn taxpayers want to be paying out additional settlements in the future, ...and it would be a shame if Canada refused to continue sharing intelligence for fear of having to pay out repeated settlements.
It wasn't the U.S. that called him a terrorist, suspected terrorist, or whatever to begin with. It was Canada. Canada gave the U.S. bad information and the U.S. acted on that information. I don't blame the U.S. at all. I'm glad Canada stepped up to the plate and took responsibility. Hopefully, they will be more careful in the future. Those false allegations can get expensive.
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It wasn't the U.S. that called him a terrorist, suspected terrorist, or whatever to begin with. It was Canada. Canada gave the U.S. bad information and the U.S. acted on that information. I don't blame the U.S. at all. I'm glad Canada stepped up to the plate and took responsibility. Hopefully, they will be more careful in the future. Those false allegations can get expensive.
He wasn't compensated for being called a terrorist, or a suspected terrorist.
The compensation was for the torture he suffered when he was kidnapped and taken to a secret prison.
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He wasn't compensated for being called a terrorist, or a suspected terrorist.
The compensation was for the torture he suffered when he was kidnapped and taken to a secret prison.
Semantics. He would have never been in a "secret prison" if Canada hadn't put out false information about the guy.
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Semantics. He would have never been in a "secret prison" if Canada hadn't put out false information about the guy.
what if the US would have executed him?
Would any of the blame had been on us?
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what if the US would have executed him?
Would any of the blame had been on us?
The U.S. didn't execute him. I guess that makes your second question irrelevant.
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The U.S. didn't execute him. I guess that makes your second question irrelevant.
Oh, okay. We never deal in hypotheticals here, right?
You're scared to answer.
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Oh, okay. We never deal in hypotheticals here, right?
You're scared to answer.
LOL. Where is that quote I posted about ten times? I think it goes something like this: your daily mantra includes asking a dumb question, not getting the answer you like, or no answer at all, then telling the person they have been "owned" or insult them. Aren't you a little old for that kind of approach?
I don't mind dealing with hypotheticals, but what you do is ask unrealistic questions in an attempt to try and corner someone. It never works. You're too predictable man. If you want to debate the facts like an adult, I'm perfectly willing to do that.
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I don't mind dealing with hypotheticals, but what you do is ask unrealistic questions in an attempt to try and corner someone. It never works. You're too predictable man. If you want to debate the facts like an adult, I'm perfectly willing to do that.
unrealistic? Why? What if the man had died in Syrian custody? people have heart attacks during interrogation. Suppose the US had delivered the man to syria and he died. Are we still not guilty of anything?
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unrealistic? Why? What if the man had died in Syrian custody? people have heart attacks during interrogation. Suppose the US had delivered the man to syria and he died. Are we still not guilty of anything?
Unrealistic because the U.S. didn't execute him. What is the point of discussing something that didn't happen? He didn't die in Syrian custody.
It's pretty apparent you want to point the finger at the U.S. (like you did when this issue first came up). In fact, if memory serves, you accused the U.S. of torturing this guy.
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Unrealistic because the U.S. didn't execute him. What is the point of discussing something that didn't happen? He didn't die in Syrian custody.
It's pretty apparent you want to finger at the U.S. (like you did when this issue first came up). In fact, if memory serves, you accused the U.S. of torturing this guy.
The US admits to facilitating the torture by delivering the guy.
You're scared to say, either way, whether you believe the US should be held accountable for anyone who dies while being interrogated in an interrogation we set up.
Unbelievable how unwilling you are to take a stance. If you don't stand for soemthing, i guess you fall for anything.
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The US admits to facilitating the torture by delivering the guy.
You're scared to say, either way, whether you believe the US should be held accountable for anyone who dies while being interrogated in an interrogation we set up.
Unbelievable how unwilling you are to take a stance. If you don't stand for soemthing, i guess you fall for anything.
What the heck are you talking about? The stand I took from day one is Canada screwed up and the U.S. did not. We did nothing wrong. That obviously pains you, because you constantly try and highlight anything "bad" our country and/or our military does.
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What the heck are you talking about? The stand I took from day one is Canada screwed up and the U.S. did not. We did nothing wrong. That obviously pains you, because you constantly try and highlight anything "bad" our country and/or our military does.
No. I point out the things which take away from the greatness that is the USA.
In WWII we prosecuted our soldiers who disobeyed orders and tortured people. Today? The orders ARE torture! US standing in the world has fallen greatly. I want my nation to return to being the pillar for the right thing in the world. Don't you?
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No. I point out the things which take away from the greatness that is the USA.
In WWII we prosecuted our soldiers who disobeyed orders and tortured people. Today? The orders ARE torture! US standing in the world has fallen greatly. I want my nation to return to being the pillar for the right thing in the world. Don't you?
Army orders court-martial for only officer charged at Abu Ghraib—
HAGERSTOWN, Md. (AP) -
An Army spokesman says the only officer criminally charged in the Abu Ghraib prisoner-abuse scandal will be court-martialed on eight charges including cruelty and maltreatment of detainees.
Colonel Jim Yonts says 50-year-old Lieutenant Colonel Steven Lee Jordan is tentatively scheduled to be arraigned Tuesday at Fort McNair in Washington.
Yonts said General Guy Swann, commander of the Military District of Washington, decided Tuesday to refer Jordan to a court-martial instead of some other, lesser level of judicial treatment.
Charges against reservist from Northern Virginia include a single count of cruelty and maltreatment, disobeying a superior commissioned officer, willful dereliction of duty by failing to supervise and ensure compliance with interrogation policies, failure to obey a lawful general order to obtain permission before using military working dogs during interrogation and making false official statements.
Jordan was charged in April with 12 offenses, but four were dismissed in October.
http://www.wmdt.com/wires/displaystory.asp?id=58054066
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What the heck are you talking about? The stand I took from day one is Canada screwed up and the U.S. did not. We did nothing wrong. That obviously pains you, because you constantly try and highlight anything "bad" our country and/or our military does.
The biggers quesiton might be, why didn't canada just ship him to Syria? ;)
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Army orders court-martial for only officer charged at Abu Ghraib—
Do ya get the news in hawaii? this guy is getting charged because he committed torture BEFORE bush told the world he wanted to legalize it.
we now do it. on a large scale. as evidenced by our canadian friend here.
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Do ya get the news in hawaii? this guy is getting charged because he committed torture BEFORE bush told the world he wanted to legalize it.
we now do it. on a large scale. as evidenced by our canadian friend here.
"In WWII we prosecuted our soldiers who disobeyed orders and tortured people. Today?"
So I point out how this statement is factually inaccurate and you change the subject. Never seen you do THAT before.
We have soldiers in prison right now for taking pictures of naked detainees. We have soldiers on trial right now for murder. (We have a traitor on trial in Washington, but that's another story.). So, to say we don't prosecute soldiers is just untrue.
But it is true that all you talk about is bad news.
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We don't prosecute them anymore. bush made it legal to use torture. Abu ghirab brought so much heat that bush actually told the world we will torture suspects now.
so yes, we prosecuted then in WWII and yes, we prosecuted them in 2005.
But TODAY, as I stated, we do not. HTH.
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Wonder how many more Terror suspects Canada will turn over after this? Yep, clearly Canada's fault.
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Wonder how many more Terror suspects Canada will turn over after this? Yep, clearly Canada's fault.
No doubt.
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Wonder how many more Terror suspects Canada will turn over after this? Yep, clearly Canada's fault.
The thing is Canada didn't turn him over. The guy was returning home from holiday. His flight was a stopover flight to Canada via NY. Canadian officials simply notified the US that he was suspected of being a terrorist. Rather than letting him continue onto his destination back home to Canada, or even deporting him to Canada or to the nation of his citizenship (ie: getting him the heck out of their country) the US decided to kidnap him from US soil, and against his will take him to Syria to be tortured without any proof against him whatsoever.
No proof... JUST AN ACCUSATION. Being "suspected of" something is quite often a completely different thing than actually "being something"... especially in this current climate of fear, paranoia and xenophobia.
I'm just fearful that the flow of information and intelligence between our two countries could be compromised by this, and that would be a tragedy for both nations.
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I'm just fearful that the flow of information and intelligence between our two countries could be compromised by this, and that would be a tragedy for both nations.
Yep.
I was just being Sarcastic saying it was Canada's fault BTW. ;)
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The thing is Canada didn't turn him over. The guy was returning home from holiday. His flight was a stopover flight to Canada via NY. Canadian officials simply notified the US that he was suspected of being a terrorist. Rather than letting him continue onto his destination back home to Canada, or even deporting him to Canada or to the nation of his citizenship (ie: getting him the heck out of their country) the US decided to kidnap him from US soil, and against his will take him to Syria to be tortured without any proof against him whatsoever.
No proof... JUST AN ACCUSATION. Being "suspected of" something is quite often a completely different thing than actually "being something"... especially in this current climate of fear, paranoia and xenophobia.
I'm just fearful that the flow of information and intelligence between our two countries could be compromised by this, and that would be a tragedy for both nations.
lol. The America hatred is so transparent Jag. Just cannot bring yourself to admit Canada screwed up?
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lol. The America hatred is so transparent Jag. Just cannot bring yourself to admit Canada screwed up?
I freely admit Canada messed up, ...however, I don't think Canada's screw up was as serious as the US's
You can suspect someone of something, ...and relay your suspicions to others... that's fine, however it is ACTIONS that count. Not suspicions, ...not sentiment, ...but what one actually does. And kidnapping an individual and sending them off to be tortured is unacceptable. A civilization cannot call itself civilized, cannot function, let alone flourish without rules of conduct to be observed both by citizens, and authorities. These rules are designed to prevent the breakdown of that society, ...and when the US or any society flounts their own rules, their own laws, as well as higher moral laws, ...that bodes very ill for the future of her society.
I have no hatred for America... just because you're unable to defend yourself and your arguments, or engage in intelligent debate with 240... don't try to divert the issue with a BS propaganda campaign against me.
240 is beating you like you owed him child support. Defend your arguments or go away troll.
(http://jme.funpic.org/images/troll.jpg)
ps:what're you doing up? You've already been posting for the past few hours already, and it's 5 only am in Hawaii. Don't you have school to teach today?
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I freely admit Canada messed up, ...however, I don't think Canada's screw up was as serious as the US's
You can suspect someone of something, ...and relay your suspicions to others... that's fine, however it is ACTIONS that count. Not suspicions, ...not sentiment, ...but what one actually does. And kidnapping an individual and sending them off to be tortured is unacceptable. A civilization cannot call itself civilized, cannot function, let alone flourish without rules of conduct to be observed both by citizens, and authorities. These rules are designed to prevent the breakdown of that society, ...and when the US or any society flounts their own rules, their own laws, as well as higher moral laws, ...that bodes very ill for the future of her society.
I have no hatred for America... just because you're unable to defend yourself and your arguments, or engage in intelligent debate with 240... don't try to divert the issue with a BS propaganda campaign against me.
240 is beating you like you owed him child support. Defend your arguments or go away troll.
(http://jme.funpic.org/images/troll.jpg)
ps:what're you doing up? You've already been posting for the past few hours already, and it's 5 only am in Hawaii. Don't you have school to teach today?
Listen, hater, I like you, but you probably post more anti-American and anti-military stuff on this board than anyone on here (with 240 a close second). Come to grips with your hatred sista. You're in denial.
P.S. ??? I was only up posting for about 15 minutes. I read the news in the morning before heading to work, in part so I can ensure you guys haven't fallen into ocean or been blown up by some terrorist. Didn't you hear what Pat Robertson predicted? :)
P.P.S.: The way I keep your comments in context is to remind myself that you are one of the 911 CT nuts and that you believe Bush has bribed the media. :)
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ps:what're you doing up? You've already been posting for the past few hours already, and it's 5 only am in Hawaii. Don't you have school to teach today?
Beach Bum used to be a guy who dropped out of school at 17 to raise a family. I had to explain to him what an MBA was, as he thought it was a mail order degree.
He was confronted with the accusation he didn't understand the history of self-attacks or the statistics behind the anomalies of the 2004 Ohio and Florida election fiascos.
So, one day he starts posting that he's a college professor who teaches history. his class is full of MBA students and none of them believe in the 911 story.
I guess he simply adopted revisionist history. I wonder which party he got that idea from?
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YAWN. ::)
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YAWN. ::)
Why would you lie about your credentials? To gain more credibility in arguments?
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Why would you lie about your credentials? To gain more credibility in arguments?
:-*
::)
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:-*
::)
Wow, that's sad.