Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Pet shop boys on January 28, 2007, 04:35:26 PM
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Unlike today, It was a lot easier to spot the winner in the line up back then-
Here Arnold smokes the competition
(http://www.builtreport.com/1980olympia/029.jpg)
(note the Terminator look)
Woooooshhhhhhhh
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he looks awesome but i think Mentzer edges him out by a little bit.
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yea except that Mentzer destroyed him
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They all look like a bunch of amateurs next to the OAK
(http://www.builtreport.com/1980olympia/059.jpg)
Woooshhhhhhhhhh
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he looks awesome but i think Mentzer edges him out by a little bit.
Maybe, but It was required to have a muscular chest.
woooooshhhhhhhhh
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(http://www.builtreport.com/1980olympia/037.jpg)
OWned by the Austrian back!!!
Woshhhhhhhhh
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mentzer got what, 5th? How can it be argued he beat arnold, he didnt even get second.
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Though he was taller, his lat insertion were much lower...simply amazing!!!
(http://www.builtreport.com/1980olympia/039.jpg)
(note the diamond calves too)
Woooooooooossshhhhhhh
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Arnold was the best on stage in 80. Made everyone else look like boys :'( .
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Best poser too!!
(http://www.builtreport.com/1980olympia/049.jpg)
can Zane beat that??
Woooshhhhhhhhhh
Bring the OAK back for the 07 Mr.O!!!!
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fellas if you look closely at all poses mentzer clearly was the best conditioned most muscular and possibly the best poser of them all. mike looked incredible. arnold was not in shape by arnold standards. he won on reputation alone.
in a un authorized boigraphy on arnold, boyer coe had to keep mike from physically going after arnold.
stone cold truth! arnold was a great bodybuilder trained intensely, but he did not deserve to win the show.
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he looks awesome but i think Mentzer edges him out by a little bit.
yep
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boyer coe had to keep mike from physically going after arnold.
stone cold truth! .
Yes Mentzer wanted to go after Arnold, because Arnold coudn't stop laughing at prejudging !!
In this pic, Arnold can't believe that Mike look's blocky, with a gut and not chest at all, after bragging all year he was a good b.b....
(http://www.builtreport.com/1980olympia/011.jpg)
BWaaahahahahahahhaha
Woshhhhhhhhhhhhh
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fellas if you look closely at all poses mentzer clearly was the best conditioned most muscular and possibly the best poser of them all. mike looked incredible. arnold was not in shape by arnold standards. he won on reputation alone.
I have the vid/dvd and I disagree.
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MIKE- "I know i was supposed to train chest, but you came here as a reporter not competitor, if i see u on stage competing i swear i'll never enter another show in my life"
(http://www.builtreport.com/1980olympia/051.jpg)
Arnold- And you call yourself mr.heavyduty?? Oh don't be a pussy let your body do the talk"
http://Woooooshhhhhhhhhhh
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MIKE- "I know i was supposed to train chest, but you came here as a reporter not competetor, if i see u on stage competing i swear i'll never enter another show in my life"
(http://www.builtreport.com/1980olympia/051.jpg)
(http://Arnold- And you call yourself mr.heavyduty?? Oh don't be a pussy let your body do the talk")
(http://Woooooshhhhhhhhhhh)
Arnold dwarfs Mentzer even when he is sitting down, 10 feet further from the camera. Mentzer was an overrated cocklicker.
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bodybuilders dressed a whole lot better back then
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mentzer had a good chest, but either it was the shape, or lack of upper chest or full thickness, arnold had a better chest but mentzers abs were much more defined and built, but arnolds underdeveloped abs made him look like he had a smaller torso and bigger chest.
even still i wouldve taken mentzers physique in 1980 compared to arnolds at the time.
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I've always had the top three as Arnold, Mentzer or Dickerson in no particular order. Place them in any order and I would agree with the placings, I think it was that close. Mentzer getting 5th was a monumental disgrace and politics were definitely involved.
SERGIO!!!!
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You can argue Arnold didn't win but Mentzer wasn't the winner not by a long shot
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I've always had the top three as Arnold, Mentzer or Dickerson in no particular order. Place them in any order and I would agree with the placings, I think it was that close. Mentzer getting 5th was a monumental disgrace and politics were definitely involved.
SERGIO!!!!
you can read Mentzer's lips when he is handed the award for his placing.. he said.. "this is bullshit".. HAHAHAHA
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you can read Mentzer's lips when he is handed the award for his placing.. he said.. "this is bullshit".. HAHAHAHA
I only have Norm Komich's footage of the show which doesn't include the placings. Oh, I also have The Comeback documentary but interestingly, they count down from 4th place onwards ;). I need to get the other footage to see the look on Mentzer's face. Apparently, there was massive amounts of booing when Arnold got 1st place but when you watch The Comeback doco, everyone's cheering and applauding. I don't know if it's clever editing or what.
SERGIO!!!!
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i think Mentzer edges him out by a little bit.
Sorry. But his 5th place doesn't reflect that.
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I only have Norm Komich's footage of the show which doesn't include the placings. Oh, I also have The Comeback documentary but interestingly, they count down from 4th place onwards ;). I need to get the other footage to see the look on Mentzer's face. Apparently, there was massive amounts of booing when Arnold got 1st place but when you watch The Comeback doco, everyone's cheering and applauding. I don't know if it's clever editing or what.
SERGIO!!!!
your in Aus? I can burn it..
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Chris Dickerson was the ONLY ONE to give Arnold a "challenge".
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you can read Mentzer's lips when he is handed the award for his placing.. he said.. "this is bullshit".. HAHAHAHA
You noticed that too, huh? :D
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You noticed that too, huh? :D
even a blind man could've ;D
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I love how Metzner always talked about "I got 2nd the year before, came in better than last year and I get fifth!"
He's comparing himself to himself. Yes, he may have been better than himself, but many others could have been better too! And that is why he placed 5th at the '80 Olympia, and didn't get the trophy like expected- because he thought since he improved himself that year, that nobody else would.
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in some pics arnold looks very average compared to the other guys
in other pictures doing the same pose he dwarf them
weird
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in some pics arnold looks very average compared to the other guys
in other pictures doing the same pose he dwarf them
weird
not really, he look's average compared to his former self, and because we all know is Arnold coming after 5 years, if he was a stranger with that same physique that showed up in 1980, not only would he dwarf the rest but nobody would b complaining.
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..
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Arnold is so great even when he is not anywhere near his best shape he still owns the competition, don't forget he was the best ever at presentation which used to mean allot unlike now.
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Everyone knows arnie blew all the judges before the show, even his buddy Reg Park
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Mentzer had convinced(deluded)himself that he'd improved from the previous show, and that this one was in the bag(much like Platz did too).
When it started becoming apparent, or reality sunk in that he wasnt the clear winner he thought he was, he started freaking out and refusing to face the facts. In the process he took his frustation out on the obviously superior and ultra-confident Arnold.
Mentzer obviously had a lot of emotional baggage, and that finished him.
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If I can get access to the photos I took at the Olympia I will write the story about the Olympia that no magazine would publish then. I gave that story to Mike in 1991 and I doubt he kept it. I have the original judges sheets as well. I also went on the harbour cruise with the competitors after the contest.
Arnold won narrowly but he was mates with most of the judges. There were some rules broken by Arnold and one judge was replaced by a junior because he missed the judges meeting that he wasn't told about. Paul, the promoter, lived with Arnold in 1968. I've told the story several times but not in the detail written in that story. I didn't hear anyone say that Mike was the best. Most thought Chris Dickerson was. It was a close contest even for the places. They awarded trophies to the top 5 guys. Most of those trophies were smashed back stage. No one ripped up a cheque. That was the last year trophies were awarded for places.
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That was the last year trophies were awarded for places.
Because medals are more durable, and can withstand smashing?
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Yes Mentzer wanted to go after Arnold, because Arnold coudn't stop laughing at prejudging !!
In this pic, Arnold can't believe that Mike look's blocky, with a gut and not chest at all, after bragging all year he was a good b.b....
(http://www.builtreport.com/1980olympia/011.jpg)
BWaaahahahahahahhaha
Woshhhhhhhhhhhhh
that's not true. Metzer went after Arnold at a competitors meeting and Arnie was being a dick. Arnie was the only one who wanted to keep the under 200lbs class and the over seperate. Boyer Coe asked Arnold to explain why-since I think the meeting had been drug out way longer than anyone thought because of this-Arnold insulted Boyer and that's when Mike went nuts. As soon as Mike went at Arnold he sat down which is the famous confrontation pic of Metzer pointing at Arnold and Arnold sitting in that chair.
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that's not true. Metzer went after Arnold at a competitors meeting and Arnie was being a dick. Arnie was the only one who wanted to keep the under 200lbs class and the over seperate. Boyer Coe asked Arnold to explain why-since I think the meeting had been drug out way longer than anyone thought because of this-Arnold insulted Boyer and that's when Mike went nuts. As soon as Mike went at Arnold he sat down which is the famous confrontation pic of Metzer pointing at Arnold and Arnold sitting in that chair.
How do you know these facts?
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How do you know these facts?
I've read about it a bunch of times over the years and all the stories are pretty consistant. Arnold was just f'ing with everyone and trying to piss them off however he could. I don't think he ever expected someone to go after him.
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Arnold looks overlay cocky in all the pics, like he knew he was going to win. He slept with the right people, thats how he won.
Arnold is an all around asshole with no legs. Mentzer was the best overall.
How some of you defend him is amazing. He was not a nice man and yet you guys make him your God.
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Yeah, it seems Arnie always suffered from low self-esteem...
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Yeah, it seems Arnie always suffered from low self-esteem...
in his mind he was f'ing with people to get them off thier game. There's a pic from that show and everyone but Zane is hitting thier pose, Zane is laughing cause Arnold told him a joke, arnold did that on purpose to mess with him.
Arnold at the meeting I was talking about was the only hold out for the 2 class system. Boyer Coe eventually stood up and said "arnold why don't you just explain to us why you think that system is better" or something like that and arnold replied with "Boyer..don't talk like a child, if you're gonna talk to me talk to me like a man" or something along those lines and that's when Metzer lost it.
There's lots of stories about Arnold training at the nautilus center with Arthur Jones that are pretty funny, it's all one sided stuff but Arthur basically says Arnold trained like a pussy, faked his intesity and was a total idiot. Arnold then went on to write some articles putting down the nautilus training system for Weider who had a beef with Arthur. Since Mike was a student of Jones maybe that's why there was all that bad blood.
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in his mind he was f'ing with people to get them off thier game.
Exactly. What kind of athlete would do that at any sporting competition? Its so fckin disgusting to act that way to your fellow cometitiors. Its amazing that people think that was some sort of smart move. He was an asshole of epic proportions. YOu all need to accept that. He may have won but he did it the worst way an athlete can.
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In the 80īs Arnold no longer possessed the best legs, I think it was his real weak point... His Upperbody was smoking everyone else!
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Roy Calender(the runner up) should have won that Mr O. Arnold's win was one of the great travesties in Pro bodybuilding!
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How do you know these facts?
I have the February 1981 issue of Muscle & Fitness and it recounts the story pretty much the same way everyone has been saying.
(http://vintagemusclemags.com/magCovers/mf/mf4202.jpg)
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Roy Calender(the runner up) should have won that Mr O. Arnold's win was one of the great travesties in Pro bodybuilding!
Ummmm... what Olympia are you talkin' about???
That was Chris Dickerson.
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to me it seems that if you are judged by conditoining, and size and symmetry, mike had it that day. arnold himself said that he entered that show without proper preperation, arnold head was already in hollywood, he retired onsatge afterward.
fellas mike won the show! his abs were more distinct than arnolds and he is a hell of alot more drier than arnold.
he could also pose! whoever sent the pics in from that show good job. they good to see
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Then, why was he out of top 3? Politics?
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Exactly. What kind of athlete would do that at any sporting competition? Its so fckin disgusting to act that way to your fellow cometitiors. Its amazing that people think that was some sort of smart move. He was an asshole of epic proportions. YOu all need to accept that. He may have won but he did it the worst way an athlete can.
IF it's a competition, then why is the mind "off limits?" If someone is in such control of their body, like a bodybuilder should be and claims to be, then the mind should be no different.
Arnold used tried-and succeeded many times- to psyche out his competition. It would be one thing if he was being nefarious about his tactics (oiling half of someones back, hiding Katz's shirt like Waller claimed to do, or giving them the wrong tape of their music for their posing routine etc...). But Arnold was not being underhanded about it all. Possibly he was being childish in his talk with Ferrigno at the 1975 meeting at breakfast, or in the back room at the 80 Olympia. But do not confuse childish and pedantic. Two very different things.
Most of the time, the people that complain about Arnold's type of "psychology," are the ones that can't understand nor accept it. :)
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Then, why was he out of top 3? Politics?
wieder had a bone to pic with Arthur Jones and Mike Metzer for going againts the weideer principles.
Arnold spent aweek training with Jones and then wrote some articles about how shitty Jones' training was...there was a little war going on there and arnold and metzer were both prime examples of each system. If Mike placed that far below arnold than that must prove that the weider principles were better.
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IF it's a competition, then why is the mind "off limits?" If someone is in such control of their body, like a bodybuilder should be and claims to be, then the mind should be no different.
Arnold used tried-and succeeded many times- to psyche out his competition. It would be one thing if he was being nefarious about his tactics (oiling half of someones back, hiding Katz's shirt like Waller claimed to do, or giving them the wrong tape of their music for their posing routine etc...). But Arnold was not being underhanded about it all. Possibly he was being childish in his talk with Ferrigno at the 1975 meeting at breakfast, or in the back room at the 80 Olympia. But do not confuse childish and pedantic. Two very different things.
Most of the time, the people that complain about Arnold's type of "psychology," are the ones that can't understand nor accept it. :)
monster defending bad behavior, and relative morality?....he is your idol, so I see you will always defend him. I don't think there is person alive who really knows Arnold and thinks he is a good guy. He was and is still is an asshole, a starfucker, and a liar. He was a hustler for Godsake.
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Yeah, it seems Arnie always suffered from low self-esteem...
Still he was the better man that day!!!
Wooshhhh
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Exactly. What kind of athlete would do that at any sporting competition? Its so fckin disgusting to act that way to your fellow cometitiors. Its amazing that people think that was some sort of smart move. He was an asshole of epic proportions. YOu all need to accept that. He may have won but he did it the worst way an athlete can.
Hmmm, ever watch football? Boxing? Basketball? in damn near any sport you try and get into the opponents head. Give us a break, it's part of competiton. If you can't take it, don't compete. Hell, it's played on getbig every damn day by f*cking with each other, and chances are - you've done it.
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Hmmm, ever watch football? Boxing? Basketball? in damn near any sport you try and get into the opponents head. Give us a break, it's part of competiton. If you can't take it, don't compete. Hell, it's played on getbig every damn day by f*cking with each other, and chances are - you've done it.
bullhshit, even when its done in other sports its bad sportsmanship (would you coach kids to do the same?). Whats worse is how Arnold did it, these were his friends and buddies that he paled around with in Venice. He used them when he could and then came competition time and he turned on them in the worst way. He is a narcissist, anything-for-a-buck, asshole without any sense of good sportsmanship. He didn't go to his own fathers funeral. He is a flip flopping politician that suddenly got environmentally conscience when it became trendy again. He flip flops on political issues more than his sexuality.
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bullhshit, even when its done in other sports its bad sportsmanship (would you coach kids to do the same?). Whats worse is how Arnold did it, these were his friends and buddies that he paled around with in Venice. He used them when he could and then came competition time and he turned on them in the worst way. He is a narcissist, anything-for-a-buck, asshole without any sense of good sportsmanship. He didn't go to his own fathers funeral. He is a flip flopping politician that suddenly got environmentally conscience when it became trendy again. He flip flops on political issues more than his sexuality.
Getting into the opponents mind has always has been, and always will be part of competition. Nothing you can do about that except adapt or lose. Coaching kids isn't relevant since they are not adults. We are talking about adult competition. A relevant question would be - "would you coach adults to get into the heads of other players?" and the answer is - yep. It's a tool any good coach uses. You think it's coincidence that they blitz the hell out of Rookie quarterbacks in the NFL? You think the coaches don't encourage the linemen to f*ck with each other in order to gain an advantage?
As for Arnold and his politics - He's a politician, he does what politicians do. When his voting base wants him to do something, he does it. Either that, or someone replaces him.
It's obvious you have blind hate for the man since you're not even being rational.
Lastly, the father funeral thing was BS for the movie. It didn't really happen.
Quote -
"A 25th anniversary edition of Pumping Iron included comments from Arnold and George Butler, admitting that parts of the movie were staged to make the film more interesting. At first Butler had tried to make a simple documentary highlighting the human side of bodybuilders, but somehow it didn't quite "work". He chose instead to take a good guy/bad guy approach. Arnold and Ken Waller were the chosen bad guys. At one point in the movie Arnold mentions that he refused to attend his father's funeral in Austria because he was training for a contest; in the commentary he denies this ever happened. Ken Waller's deviousness toward Mike Katz in the movie was also faked or exaggerated, but it did earn him some real-life boos at later contests."
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monster defending bad behavior, and relative morality?....he is your idol, so I see you will always defend him. I don't think there is person alive who really knows Arnold and thinks he is a good guy. He was and is still is an asshole, a starfucker, and a liar. He was a hustler for Godsake.
This is where you step off your soapbox and put a pacifier in your mouth.
Who ever said Arnold is my idol? Not I, you certainly felt the need to say that however. He is far from my idol, but if you feel better thinking that I feel that way, that's the beauty of free will. However, I would like to add, the best part of free will- other than you making judgments and assumptions for me- is that I can still think you're a dick that always feels he is right and will not waver on any subject. You will just throw a temper tantrum and stomp your feet till you get your way.
But go ahead, whatever you would like to think, that's your thing. However, Arnold still did the same thing everyone else did. Just like the time Franco took his shirt off in front of Chris Dickerson, to psyche him out. Or Waller stealing Katz's shirt. Or Oliva keeping himself covered till the time he went onstage and then started playing with Arnold's mind. Or how about Levrone touching Coleman's stomach during the posedown in the (I think) '02 Olympia? Or When guys are doing the posedown and they're all running after one guy?
These are just some examples of mental games people play....and they are all fair and just.
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This is where you step off your soapbox and put a pacifier in your mouth.
Who ever said Arnold is my idol? Not I, you certainly felt the need to say that however. He is far from my idol, but if you feel better thinking that I feel that way, that's the beauty of free will. However, I would like to add, the best part of free will- other than you making judgments and assumptions for me- is that I can still think you're a dick that always feels he is right and will not waver on any subject. You will just throw a temper tantrum and stomp your feet till you get your way.
But go ahead, whatever you would like to think, that's your thing. However, Arnold still did the same thing everyone else did. Just like the time Franco took his shirt off in front of Chris Dickerson, to psyche him out. Or Waller stealing Katz's shirt. Or Oliva keeping himself covered till the time he went onstage and then started playing with Arnold's mind. Or how about Levrone touching Coleman's stomach during the posedown in the (I think) '02 Olympia? Or When guys are doing the posedown and they're all running after one guy?
These are just some examples of mental games people play....and they are all fair and just.
They are all signs of poor sportsmanship. Isn't it better to win by having the best physique, game, etc than to rely on playing head games with your opponents? which would you prefer for yourself?
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They are all signs of poor sportsmanship. Isn't it better to win by having the best physique, game, etc than to rely on playing head games with your opponents? which would you prefer for yourself?
not that I condon that type of thing but one statement that I've learned seems to apply more and more to more and more things in life:
the ends justify the means
no one remembers that arnie was a bad guy-except in threads like this-they remember that he won 7 olympia's so that's all that really matters.
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They are all signs of poor sportsmanship. Isn't it better to win by having the best physique, game, etc than to rely on playing head games with your opponents? which would you prefer for yourself?
No, it's not bad sportsmanship. Bad sportsmanship is Ronnie walking offstage because Jay won the award. Bad sportsmanship is Titus smashing his trophy when he didn't win, because Phil Hernon came into the contest in better shape than he did. Poor sportsmanship is when you take advantage of something that is NOT part of the game. Coming off the sidelines to tackle your opponent during a kick return. Or pulling a knife from your short and knifing Kobe in the back during the game.
The mental aspect is there in ALL sports, whether you like it or not. If someone were to say to me during a game "Your mama wears army boots!" and I was rattled by that comment, then I would say to him "hey, good comment" but I would also come back at him with something of my own. Now, if I my mom just died, and he knew that and said "You mom died because you're a bitch that can't slam dunk" that would be an example of poor sportsmanship. Either that, or I really shouldn't be playing in the game since I was obviously not over her death and affected by his comment- for the wrong reasons.
So, to answer your question, mind games are no different a part of the sport than trying to have a better back than Ronnie Coleman. The weights are how you build a better back, however, telling your opponent a joke before he hits a pose, is a means to not allow him to hit his back double biceps shot effectively. Just as Arnold told Zane a joke onstage, Zane had the same tools at his disposal. He decided to not use that tool, but that does not mean it was poor sportsmanship by Arnold.
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Lastly, the father funeral thing was BS for the movie. It didn't really happen.
Quote -
"A 25th anniversary edition of Pumping Iron included comments from Arnold and George Butler, admitting that parts of the movie were staged to make the film more interesting. At first Butler had tried to make a simple documentary highlighting the human side of bodybuilders, but somehow it didn't quite "work". He chose instead to take a good guy/bad guy approach. Arnold and Ken Waller were the chosen bad guys. At one point in the movie Arnold mentions that he refused to attend his father's funeral in Austria because he was training for a contest; in the commentary he denies this ever happened. Ken Waller's deviousness toward Mike Katz in the movie was also faked or exaggerated, but it did earn him some real-life boos at later contests."
exacly my point, Arnold allowed the Director to put words in his mouth because Arnold new that the movie would sell more and thus make more money and more fame for himself. So he knowingly compromised himself and his father for money and fame. Nice guy.
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exacly my point, Arnold allowed the Director to put words in his mouth because Arnold new that the movie would sell more and thus make more money and more fame for himself. So he knowingly compromised himself and his father for money and fame. Nice guy.
His father was a Nazi bastard. I wouldn't have gone to his funeral either.
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exacly my point, Arnold allowed the Director to put words in his mouth because Arnold new that the movie would sell more and thus make more money and more fame for himself. So he knowingly compromised himself and his father for money and fame. Nice guy.
hahahaha. What movie doesn't have the director telling the actors what to say and how to say it? Do you think it's the actors idea's to come up with all of that? That's why he is the director, his job is to make a movie that will entertain the viewer. Why is Arnold a bad guy for wanting to be successful? How is that any different than any other person ever to make a movie? EVERY ACTOR TRIES TO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AND FAME FOR THEMSELVES, from Arnold to the guy posting his home video on youtube. With the moral standards you declare in this thread, you must be the only Shaolin Monk in existence with internet access.
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exacly my point, Arnold allowed the Director to put words in his mouth because Arnold new that the movie would sell more and thus make more money and more fame for himself. So he knowingly compromised himself and his father for money and fame. Nice guy.
That's what actors do, genius! That would be similar to you not liking Cameron Crowe because a scene in Gladiator, he really didn't kill the lion (because it was blue screened so there really wasn't a lion even there; adding to the lie!) because it would be cruelty to animals.
A movie is a living breathing thing. If there isn't enough action or plot, all people involved can and should brainstorm and add ideas to allow the movie to serve it's purpose; entertain and make make money. Arnold had already make "Hercules In New York" and "Stay Hungry" by the time Pumping Iron was around. So, he was an actor, maybe not a good one, but qualified enough to have input in the making of PI.
Did you just wake up from a coma or something? ???
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Ah, where to start when discussing who should have won in 1980? My gym sold 200 tickets to the Olympia so there were lots of people that gave us feedback afterwards. From the bodybuilders that I knew they mostly thought Dickerson was the best. That surprised me. If you examine the judges scores then it is obvious the contest was close because they gave out way too many 20 out of 20 scores in each round. Clearly, there were many who could have won the contest. Tinerino was in great shape but didn't make the top few. Roy Callendar won a contest in Sydney in 1979 so was popular with the crowd but he wasn't among the top placers. I took a shot of Mentzer that Ironman used on its cover. From that photo it is easy to think he is the best on stage. The trouble is he didn't seem to be the winner at the prejudging or at the evening show. Plus he had a tummy that protruded in some photos.
Zane was the reigning Mr Olympia but he looked small in 1980. Dickerson had small arms and funny looking elbows. When I looked at the hundreds of images from the prejudging and evening shows I concluded that Arnold was the winner. His chest was by far the best on stage. His arms and calves were among the best. Arnold also looked huge when he posed. The only thing lacking were his thighs but they were cut. He was nowhere near the condition he had in 73 but had enough to win.
The biggest guy, pound for pound, was Danny Padilla. He was not called out for any comparisons. That is how contests go. It doesn't pay to be short.
I had an argument with Roger Walker after the contest. He thought his waist was as small as Arnold's. It didn't look as small.
Boyer Coe looked great in the free posing section. Yet, where were his abdominals.
Dickerson had small arms and chest, Zane was small, Coe had missing abs, Padilla was too short, and so on. Arnold won by a point and that is what the judges voted for. How anyone 27 years later can insist Mentzer won is really pushing the sentimentality. Mentzer was nowhere near the best that day. Neither the judges, audience, photos or movie agree. I don't agree.
Mike was a philosopher who believed in Ayn Rand ideas. There was one true theory of anything. In bodybuilding there is one true theory and therefore one true method. Mike believed he alone knew both the right theory and method. He considered Arnold not knowledgeable about training. Therefore, it would be right if the person with the most knowledge won the contest. That is what the universe would want. That attitude was behind some of the angst re Arnold and Mike. So when Mike not only lost but didn't place second and Arnold won his brain snapped. Several of the top men boycotted the 81 Olympia, including Mike. Had Mike persisted he might easily have won in 81 and perhaps could have won for a few more years. We never found out because Mike lost it. According to Ray Mentzer, Mike abused drugs and went through many bad years after that contest. To him the universe had betrayed him.
I doubt anyone can know exactly what was in Mike's mind but even today many debate who should have won that contest.
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I like Mike. I even like Ayn Rand. But anyone who goes through life expecting it to work like her books is due for a brutal disillusionment sooner or later.
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Ayn Rand wrote of the heroic man and the 'superwoman' who was his equal in all ways. We have yet to see women like that. The movies and TV all depict the emotional, crazy female who eventually falls for the right guy.
I wonder if Mike ever found his Ayn?
As a philosopher, I would say that the Rand scheme was lacking. She even wrote about the virtue of selfishness. The trouble is that is a contradiction. If someone does a good thing for another it might be for self-interested reasons but that is hardly selfishness. I always wondered why Mike and even Ray admired that philosophy. I have yet to meet anyone else who championed those ideas. Nathaniel Brandon, popularized the ideas of Rand, but no university philosophy department even considers her a first rate philosopher.
Mike stands out as one of the few thinkers in the Irongame. I wonder if he had many original ideas himself? He admired Rand then Jones but I never read any of his own ideas that could be described as a philosophy.
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NycBull is by far one of the top 10 idiots on this site and that is no small feat. You have to have a personal grudge on someone to be so persistent about them being a bad person because they don't follow your ideals. Either that or your a Morman or something.
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Zane was the reigning Mr Olympia but he looked small in 1980. Dickerson had small arms and funny looking elbows.
What was up with that?
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What was up with that?
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dickerson has some of the "longest" elbows you'll eveer see, he kinda looks liek a mutant or something with those things.
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What was up with that?
Story goes that Chris used to use the GH from human cadavers (just like Arnold was rumored to have used) and that is what made his elbows grow like that.
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His father was a Nazi bastard. I wouldn't have gone to his funeral either.
Still he was the better man that day!!!
Woooooooooshhhhhhhhhhh
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bullhshit, even when its done in other sports its bad sportsmanship (would you coach kids to do the same?). Whats worse is how Arnold did it, these were his friends and buddies that he paled around with in Venice. He used them when he could and then came competition time and he turned on them in the worst way. He is a narcissist, anything-for-a-buck, asshole without any sense of good sportsmanship. He didn't go to his own fathers funeral. He is a flip flopping politician that suddenly got environmentally conscience when it became trendy again. He flip flops on political issues more than his sexuality.
Arnold is the greatest.
Every great person has gotten where they are by stepping on the necks of the inferior. It's how it works and i don't have a problem with it.
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Story goes that Chris used to use the GH from human cadavers (just like Arnold was rumored to have used) and that is what made his elbows grow like that.
I met Chris and his bf a while back at a party, he was really adament about me not doing steroids, almost begging me not use them. I walked away believing maybe he was natural.
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Arnold is the greatest.
Every great person has gotten where they are by stepping on the necks of the inferior. It's how it works and i don't have a problem with it.
Thats typical of peoples attitude today. Get famous at any cost. You see it all the time with celebrities, they can do not wrong. Bad publicity is good publicity. Thats why someone like Paris Hilton is famous. I guess its just the way it is now. Sad, but it seems all the young people are following these kind of role models. Cheat, steal, lie, drugs, anything as long as you make money or get famous.
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Ah, where to start when discussing who should have won in 1980? My gym sold 200 tickets to the Olympia so there were lots of people that gave us feedback afterwards. From the bodybuilders that I knew they mostly thought Dickerson was the best. That surprised me. If you examine the judges scores then it is obvious the contest was close because they gave out way too many 20 out of 20 scores in each round. Clearly, there were many who could have won the contest. Tinerino was in great shape but didn't make the top few. Roy Callendar won a contest in Sydney in 1979 so was popular with the crowd but he wasn't among the top placers. I took a shot of Mentzer that Ironman used on its cover. From that photo it is easy to think he is the best on stage. The trouble is he didn't seem to be the winner at the prejudging or at the evening show. Plus he had a tummy that protruded in some photos.
Zane was the reigning Mr Olympia but he looked small in 1980. Dickerson had small arms and funny looking elbows. When I looked at the hundreds of images from the prejudging and evening shows I concluded that Arnold was the winner. His chest was by far the best on stage. His arms and calves were among the best. Arnold also looked huge when he posed. The only thing lacking were his thighs but they were cut. He was nowhere near the condition he had in 73 but had enough to win.
The biggest guy, pound for pound, was Danny Padilla. He was not called out for any comparisons. That is how contests go. It doesn't pay to be short.
I had an argument with Roger Walker after the contest. He thought his waist was as small as Arnold's. It didn't look as small.
Boyer Coe looked great in the free posing section. Yet, where were his abdominals.
Dickerson had small arms and chest, Zane was small, Coe had missing abs, Padilla was too short, and so on. Arnold won by a point and that is what the judges voted for. How anyone 27 years later can insist Mentzer won is really pushing the sentimentality. Mentzer was nowhere near the best that day. Neither the judges, audience, photos or movie agree. I don't agree.
Mike was a philosopher who believed in Ayn Rand ideas. There was one true theory of anything. In bodybuilding there is one true theory and therefore one true method. Mike believed he alone knew both the right theory and method. He considered Arnold not knowledgeable about training. Therefore, it would be right if the person with the most knowledge won the contest. That is what the universe would want. That attitude was behind some of the angst re Arnold and Mike. So when Mike not only lost but didn't place second and Arnold won his brain snapped. Several of the top men boycotted the 81 Olympia, including Mike. Had Mike persisted he might easily have won in 81 and perhaps could have won for a few more years. We never found out because Mike lost it. According to Ray Mentzer, Mike abused drugs and went through many bad years after that contest. To him the universe had betrayed him.
I doubt anyone can know exactly what was in Mike's mind but even today many debate who should have won that contest.
Vince, do you have any of the pics from the prejudging that we have neevr seen? If so could you post several?
The Beef
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Mike seemed to be one of those guys who seemed to lose chest impressivness wen he tensed his chest. This happened with others to. Guys like robbie padilla also looked better wen his chest was relaxed.
Mike in shots wer chest is relaxed looked good, once he tensed its lost its appeal.
davie
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I met Chris and his bf a while back at a party, he was really adament about me not doing steroids, almost begging me not use them. I walked away believing maybe he was natural.
I highly doubt it. :-\ Maybe at the moment he was natural, but not when he was competing.
Maybe he was trying to convince you not to use, because he had problems with them himself? Maybe because his elbows are the way they are, he blames steroids? Who knows.
But, I do not think Chris was natural during his Olympia competing days.
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Exactly. What kind of athlete would do that at any sporting competition? Its so fckin disgusting to act that way to your fellow cometitiors. Its amazing that people think that was some sort of smart move. He was an asshole of epic proportions. YOu all need to accept that. He may have won but he did it the worst way an athlete can.
Mind games mate.. It's all about the mind.. Arnold has successfully outplayed his competitors in every event..
Didn't he played mind games with the Californians to become the Govenor?