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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on January 28, 2007, 08:22:59 PM
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"So we have a crisis of confidence in the Middle East in the world, really. I've never seen our country as isolated, as much as a sort of international pariah for a number of reasons as it is today."
http://www.kxmb.com/getARticle.asp?ArticleId=89952
pa·ri·ah /pəˈraɪə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[puh-rahy-uh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. an outcast.
2. any person or animal that is generally despised or avoided.
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prediction:
kerry will be called names and people will say he hates his country. These same posters will be unable to provide any evidence that the US isn't viewed in this manner.
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prediction:
kerry will be called names and people will say he hates his country. These same posters will be unable to provide any evidence that the US isn't viewed in this manner.
The sorry truth is that if America is viewed as such within the international community, people like John Kerry aren't doing much to help rectify it. The US should be resolute enough within itself to realise that its government exists to serve its citizens only, and not bow to the views of elitists worldwide.
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I agree Kerry is a negative ninny. And he certainly has no problem making controversial statement which - while sometimes TRUE - are hard to swallow (like when he called out US forced for killing civilians, then it turned out some had raped/murdered).
Bruce, you're from aussie, right? How is the US viewed there?
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Shadow your not from the US, right? How is the US viewed in kazakstan ;D
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shadow love the US. he thanks us for the good we bring to his country :)
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I agree Kerry is a negative ninny. And he certainly has no problem making controversial statement which - while sometimes TRUE - are hard to swallow (like when he called out US forced for killing civilians, then it turned out some had raped/murdered).
Bruce, you're from aussie, right? How is the US viewed there?
I'm glad you asked that, Rob. Depends where you go and who you ask. Is there a large anti-American movement here? Sure. Are they justified in their hatred towards all things American? I would say definitely not. We have to understand most of these guys are deeply entrenched in the left-wing, demonstrated by their unwillingness to criticise radical Islam, yet their frequent maligning of the United States. How they justify this is beyond me - the US (compared to Islam), by my reckoning is a bastion for the following (former) left-wind ideologies:
- Gay Rights
- Minority Rights
- Free immigration
- Education
- Freedom of speech
I could go on.
I must also mention Australia's great support and friendship for America. A lot of Australian's adore and respect our bigger brother across the Pacific. America is still remembered for its help offered in the South Pacific during WW2, and hopefully Australia is noted for returning the favour more than once. Our current government is conservative and in my opinion very competent, we support the US in Iraq and all conflicts because we know you are there for us in return, and we largely agree with how your country operates. Many Americanisms find their way inter-twined with Australian life because we truly enjoy your country. This being said, Australians are still very independent, and we believe in spreading democracy in our region too, as seen with our assistance to the East Timorese - one of the world's youngest nations.
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Shadow your not from the US, right? How is the US viewed in kazakstan ;D
Shadow doesn't live in Kazakstan....He lives in DUMBFUCKISTAN.
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I'm glad you asked that, Rob. Depends where you go and who you ask. Is there a large anti-American movement here? Sure. Are they justified in their hatred towards all things American? I would say definitely not. We have to understand most of these guys are deeply entrenched in the left-wing, demonstrated by their unwillingness to criticise radical Islam, yet their frequent maligning of the United States. How they justify this is beyond me - the US (compared to Islam), by my reckoning is a bastion for the following (former) left-wind ideologies:
- Gay Rights
- Minority Rights
- Free immigration
- Education
- Freedom of speech
I could go on.
I must also mention Australia's great support and friendship for America. A lot of Australian's adore and respect our bigger brother across the Pacific. America is still remembered for its help offered in the South Pacific during WW2, and hopefully Australia is noted for returning the favour more than once. Our current government is conservative and in my opinion very competent, we support the US in Iraq and all conflicts because we know you are there for us in return, and we largely agree with how your country operates. Many Americanisms find their way inter-twined with Australian life because we truly enjoy your country. This being said, Australians are still very independent, and we believe in spreading democracy in our region too, as seen with our assistance to the East Timorese - one of the world's youngest nations.
Cool. yeah, I saw a poll today that something like 78% of the world disagrees with our war in Iraq. I agree that as an American, the goals of America come first. But world resentment is important, especially in this global economy. When Bush/Snow said we needed to take iraq because they might choose not to sell us oil - made me think about what happens if ten nations suddenly refused to sell us oil, ya know? We can't invade saudi, venez, and 8 other countries at once because they're just so sick of our shit they stop dealing with us.
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Cool. yeah, I saw a poll today that something like 78% of the world disagrees with our war in Iraq. I agree that as an American, the goals of America come first. But world resentment is[/i] important, especially in this global economy. When Bush/Snow said we needed to take iraq because they might choose not to sell us oil - made me think about what happens if ten nations suddenly refused to sell us oil, ya know? We can't invade saudi, venez, and 8 other countries at once because they're just so sick of our shit they stop dealing with us.
Don't get me wrong, I think the sentiment of the so called 'international community' is important, I just doubt we really know how to gauge it - and I certainly think it needs to be taken with a drop of oil occasionally. For example, the level of international aid America gives (both privately and publicly) is astonishing, and goes largely ignored by most of what I consider to be this community. People also develop great double-standards with the US that we wouldn't otherwise see with less generous nations. We see the media criticise the involvement in Iraq, yet berate the Americans for not doing more in the world. They should use their might to help. They shouldn't get involved. Let's be a little more consistent with how we debate America's role in this community.
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Kery is a moron and a traitor.
He actually believes he's supposed to be president. He thinks that it was his birthright and how dare any of us stand in his way. I'm starting to think the guy might be clinically insane. Delusional isn't a strong enough word to describe this dink.
He cried like a bitch because he wanted to run but he knows he has no chance against the dyke.
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j162/DarthH/kerry-crying.jpg)
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Don't get me wrong, I think the sentiment of the so called 'international community' is important, I just doubt we really know how to gauge it - and I certainly think it needs to be taken with a drop of oil occasionally. For example, the level of international aid America gives (both privately and publicly) is astonishing, and goes largely ignored by most of what I consider to be this community. People also develop great double-standards with the US that we wouldn't otherwise see with less generous nations. We see the media criticise the involvement in Iraq, yet berate the Americans for not doing more in the world. They should use their might to help. They shouldn't get involved. Let's be a little more consistent with how we debate America's role in this community.
You impress me. :)
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Kery is a moron and a traitor.
He actually believes he's supposed to be president. He thinks that it was his birthright and how dare any of us stand in his way. I'm starting to think the guy might be clinically insane. Delusional isn't a strong enough word to describe this dink.
He cried like a bitch because he wanted to run but he knows he has no chance against the dyke.
(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j162/DarthH/kerry-crying.jpg)
Why do you think he is a traitor?
-Hedge
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Why do you think he is a traitor?
-Hedge
http://www.stolenhonor.com/
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http://www.stolenhonor.com/
Did he betray his country?
Or did he betray a group of people in Washington whose goal was a 15-year quagmire in Vietnam despite the will of the American people to leave Vietnam?
Sad that you will drop the word 'traitor' so frequently about people who use the rights bestowed upon them by the constitution, when they're using them to speak out about abuses to our nation. You don't understand the word, do you?
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George Washington was viewed as a traitor.
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Did he betray his country?
Or did he betray a group of people in Washington whose goal was a 15-year quagmire in Vietnam despite the will of the American people to leave Vietnam?
Sad that you will drop the word 'traitor' so frequently about people who use the rights bestowed upon them by the constitution, when they're using them to speak out about abuses to our nation. You don't understand the word, do you?
I doubt he betrayed a group of people. Check your facts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth
-Hedge
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I was referring to the group of neocons back then who had a hard-on for war, when he came home and spoke out against the war.
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This is the thing.....the dumb sonofabitch did it in another country.....again.....IM O, thats a betrayal of his country, Gore does the same thing, when will those low life POS pull they're heads out of their asses and realize they do THIS country not one bit of good!
Yes, he IS a Traitor!
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This is the thing.....the dumb sonofabitch did it in another country.....again.....IM O, thats a betrayal of his country, Gore does the same thing, when will those low life POS pull they're heads out of their asses and realize they do THIS country not one bit of good!
Yes, he IS a Traitor!
Mr I,
The punishment for being a trator is execution.
Are you saying he should be executed?
If you're prepared to outright call another American a traitor, you should have no problem calling for his execution.
Do you believe he should be executed?
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Did he betray his country?
Or did he betray a group of people in Washington whose goal was a 15-year quagmire in Vietnam despite the will of the American people to leave Vietnam?
Sad that you will drop the word 'traitor' so frequently about people who use the rights bestowed upon them by the constitution, when they're using them to speak out about abuses to our nation. You don't understand the word, do you?
He betrayed his country and more specifically the prisoners of war who were held captive while Kerry was on his anti-American rant. Traitor. It wouldn’t bother quite as much if he didn’t use his military service to try and become commander in chief.
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Mr I,
The punishment for being a trator is execution.
Are you saying he should be executed?
If you're prepared to outright call another American a traitor, you should have no problem calling for his execution.
Do you believe he should be executed?
Do you see how SERIOUS it is for you to call another man a traitor?
You just called JOhn Kerry, a man who spent his life serving this nation, A TRAITOR.
By definition, traitors commit treason and should be executed.
Do you know how serious this charge is?
Do you know huge it is for you to say that a war vet, a senator, another man, should DIE, in your opinion?
I don't think you seriously understand the severity of the words you say, it just "feels right".
WOuld you tell Kerry to his face you believe he is a traitor and should be executed?
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He betrayed his country and more specifically the prisoners of war who were held captive while Kerry was on his anti-American rant. Traitor. It wouldn’t bother quite as much if he didn’t use his military service to try and become commander in chief.
Beach Bum,
People who commit treason (traitors) are sentenced to die by hanging.
I'm guessing you understand this.
How the hell can you say this about a senator? DO you understand how damn serious this is? Step back. You just accused a senator of being a traitor. Do you support him being punished by law as is required for traitors?
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Mr I and Beach Bum -
The word "traitor" is applied by you two, to jsut about anyone who disses the war. When you outright call Senator John Kerry a traitor, do you realize what action you are calling for?
Are you two crazy? Even when I discuss 9/11, in which I believe Bush knew and didn't act, I've never made such a statement, because IMO it is by far the WORST thing you can say about a fellow American, and you damn sure better not use it unless you mean it. If you call a person a traitor, you are saying that person should be executed for betraying his country.
Do you two realize how wrong that is to casually call someone that because you disagree with them politically?
Please explain your position.
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240 - Watch the documentary and then get back to me.
http://www.stolenhonor.com/
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People can use the term traitor in many cases.
Wayne Rooney will always be considered a traitor with the Everton fans after switching to ManU.
Then there's the legal term treason. But I wouldn't make too much of it, although I think it's questionable whether Kerry is a traitor for critisising during the Vietnam.
Very few of the Swift Boat veterans served with Kerry, only one was on the actual boat I believe.
There are Swift Boat Officers who opposes Kerry. But how many of the men he served with, on his boat, thinks he is a POS?
-Hedge
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People can use the term traitor in many cases.
Wayne Rooney will always be considered a traitor with the Everton fans after switching to ManU.
Then there's the legal term treason. But I wouldn't make too much of it, although I think it's questionable whether Kerry is a traitor for critisising during the Vietnam.
Very few of the Swift Boat veterans served with Kerry, only one was on the actual boat I believe.
There are Swift Boat Officers who opposes Kerry. But how many of the men he served with, on his boat, thinks he is a POS?
-Hedge
I agree there are many ways to use the term. I didn't really pay much attention to the Swift Boat people initially, in part because of the timing (coming during a political campaign). Then I watched the Stolen Honor documentary. Powerful stuff. What you cannot do if you are a military officer is get in front of a microphone in D.C. and accuse your fellow soldiers of atrocities, while your fellow soldiers are being help captive in a foreign country. In the Stolen Honor documentary, the former POWs and their wives talked about how the Vietnamese used transcripts of Kerry's comments to interrogate our POWs.
That makes him a traitor in my book.
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the former POWs and their wives talked about how the Vietnamese used transcripts of Kerry's comments to interrogate our POWs.
That makes him a traitor in my book.
So there are different levels of traitors, BB?
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So there are different levels of traitors, BB?
Different levels? I have no idea what that means. I'm talking about Kerry and his conduct during the Vietnam War. Some liberals (like you) don't have a problem with his conduct. I spoke to a liberal on Saturday night who didn't have a problem with his conduct. We are all entitled to our opinion.
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Mr I and Beach Bum -
The word "traitor" is applied by you two, to jsut about anyone who disses the war. When you outright call Senator John Kerry a traitor, do you realize what action you are calling for?
Are you two crazy? Even when I discuss 9/11, in which I believe Bush knew and didn't act, I've never made such a statement, because IMO it is by far the WORST thing you can say about a fellow American, and you damn sure better not use it unless you mean it. If you call a person a traitor, you are saying that person should be executed for betraying his country.
Do you two realize how wrong that is to casually call someone that because you disagree with them politically?
Please explain your position.
So what you're saying is that it's worse for one person to call another a traitor, than it is to say the President knowingly conspired to kill thousands of his own innocent citizens?
Why you're the one reacting to this with such vigour is beyond me, but for the record, I don't think John Kerry is a traitor.
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What did Kerry do that is making some people call him a traitor?
Isn't being a traitor directly helping the enemy kill or gain tangible advantages?
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What did Kerry do that is making some people call him a traitor?
Isn't being a traitor directly helping the enemy kill or gain tangible advantages?
http://www.stolenhonor.com/
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So what you're saying is that it's worse for one person to call another a traitor, than it is to say the President knowingly conspired to kill thousands of his own innocent citizens?
There is a great deal of evidence that Bush was given details of the impending attacks and did nothing. I would like mr bush to testify, under oath, what he knew and when, and why he didn't act upon the specific intel from teh German ambassador which included 5 of the hijackers' names, the targets, and the attack date.
Bush has never denied knowing. He has never gone under oath. And he has refused to answer anything about it.
I've never used the "T" word in this case. One, because Bush hasn't been proven to have done anything yet. And two, because I do not know the circumstances. If Bush was confronted with a financial collapse and chose a terror attack to justify military spending and invasions to save our economy, he should tell us.
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There is a great deal of evidence that Bush was given details of the impending attacks and did nothing. I would like mr bush to testify, under oath, what he knew and when, and why he didn't act upon the specific intel from teh German ambassador which included 5 of the hijackers' names, the targets, and the attack date.
Bush has never denied knowing. He has never gone under oath. And he has refused to answer anything about it.
I've never used the "T" word in this case. One, because Bush hasn't been proven to have done anything yet. And two, because I do not know the circumstances. If Bush was confronted with a financial collapse and chose a terror attack to justify military spending and invasions to save our economy, he should tell us.
More diatribe. You didn't answer my question. Perhaps you should consider that Bush hasn’t refuted those claims because they’re preposterous, and to address them would give theorists like yourself reason to continue your conspiratorial wet dreams even further.
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More diatribe. You didn't answer my question. Perhaps you should consider that Bush hasn’t refuted those claims because they’re preposterous, and to address them would give theorists like yourself reason to continue your conspiratorial wet dreams even further.
Bush refused to take the stand during the 9/11 commission. he refused to testify without Cheney there. he refused to be recorded. Any notes were censored. he only gave them a short time period. his words were never released.
This was before anyone was crying conspiracy. This was the 911 Commission. Why did everyone else have to testify under oath - but the two men who were at the wheel that day - Bush and Cheney - refused?
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More diatribe. You didn't answer my question. Perhaps you should consider that Bush hasn’t refuted those claims because they’re preposterous, and to address them would give theorists like yourself reason to continue your conspiratorial wet dreams even further.
Well stated man. I completely agree. You start addressing every ridiculous comment and you give them more life than they need.
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Why did everyone else have to testify under oath - but the two men who were at the wheel that day - Bush and Cheney - refused?
BTW - if your answer is "Because they're the president and VP", I gotta tell you that's a terrible answer. Please tell me why everyone else was drilled under oath but they could just refuse.
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BTW - if your answer is "Because they're the president and VP", I gotta tell you that's a terrible answer. Please tell me why everyone else was drilled under oath but they could just refuse.
Why even bother responding when you can for me, and then label my (imagined) reply as 'terrible'?
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Why even bother responding when you can for me, and then label my (imagined) reply as 'terrible'?
So you don't have an answer then?
I'm not flaming dude. I'm pointing out that it's been reported multiple times - from our allies and enemeies alike - that Bush knew a lot before the attacks.
bush was asked a few times, and never would answer the Q.
If I ran the country, and 36% of the people there (scripps poll) believed I was behind 9/11, you'd better f'king believe I would squash theose rumors by answering their question. Even if I thought it was rediculous, I certainly couldn't have a dividing force in my nation like that.
So um, why didn't Bush/Cheney testify under oath when everyone else had to?
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So you don't have an answer then?
I'm not flaming dude. I'm pointing out that it's been reported multiple times - from our allies and enemeies alike - that Bush knew a lot before the attacks.
bush was asked a few times, and never would answer the Q.
If I ran the country, and 36% of the people there (scripps poll) believed I was behind 9/11, you'd better f'king believe I would squash theose rumors by answering their question. Even if I thought it was rediculous, I certainly couldn't have a dividing force in my nation like that.
So um, why didn't Bush/Cheney testify under oath when everyone else had to?
So what you're saying is that it's worse for one person to call another a traitor, than it is to say the President knowingly conspired to kill thousands of his own innocent citizens?
Why you're the one reacting to this with such vigour is beyond me, but for the record, I don't think John Kerry is a traitor.
How about you answer my original question, then I'll get round to your rants, okay?
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I guess this is what happens when you use an attack on your soil by some obscure enemy as an excuse to start up illegal wars with any nation you please.
I also don't see how John Kerry is a traitor for pointing out atrocities commited by some of his fellow soliders. What does it matter if some soliders were being held as POWs? How does that relate to Kerry pointing out injustices that were commited in Vietnam by American certain servicemen? ::)
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How about you answer my original question, then I'll get round to your rants, okay?
I never said so-and-so did this or that.
i said the evidence strongly points to that, and i would love it if he would answer the questions. I've also made it abundantly clear it's my own personal opinion that Bush was an unwilling participant on 9/11. He was following his orders.
So um, why didn't Bush/Cheney testify under oath when everyone else had to?
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I never said so-and-so did this or that.
i said the evidence strongly points to that, and i would love it if he would answer the questions. I've also made it abundantly clear it's my own personal opinion that Bush was an unwilling participant on 9/11. He was following his orders.
So um, why didn't Bush/Cheney testify under oath when everyone else had to?
Still no answer, so which is worse? You can't honestly claim you haven't alleged anything against the President.
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BB and Mr.IO have already shown why Kerry is a traitor. I won't rehash their fine posts.
What I will do is speak for me personally.
Kerry is a traitor because he has, does, and will continue to put himself and his interests above what is best for this nation.
Kerry is not an American in my book.
Dissent is fine. It is welcomed. I loathed Clinton and I know how I'd feel if someone had tried to silence my distaste of that man and pretty everything he stood (and still stands) for.
But Kerry doesn't dissent. He is merely an opportunist. He will lie, cheat, flip-flop and do just about anything and everything to get what he perceives as his supposed destiny. From his phony marriages to wealthy widows, right to his lies in front of Congress about things he never saw in Vietnam. The man is scum.
He doesn't care about the troops.
He doesn't care about what the families of these kids are going through.
He doesn't care about his constituency in Massachusetts.
He doesn't care about the middle-class.
He doesn't care about the environment.
And I promise you liberals out there that he doesn't care about you either. He doesn't care about anything except himself.