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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => E-Board - Movies, Music, TV, Videogames, Comics => Topic started by: JOHN MATRIX on February 01, 2007, 04:31:29 PM
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they are good musicians ill give them that, but their music sucks, it is uninspired and one-dimensional and all their songs sound the same. discuss
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only listened to prison sex, but I did like it
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only listened to prison sex, but I did like it
fitting
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they are good musicians ill give them that, but their music sucks, it is uninspired and one-dimensional and all their songs sound the same. discuss
They are nothing compared to teh greats.
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yup
like watching OZ the series too
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music stopped being of any value when the musicians decided not to take any more drugs... that has been pr-oven by Bill Hicks long time ago
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does Rammstein do drugs?
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they are good musicians ill give them that, but their music sucks, it is uninspired and one-dimensional and all their songs sound the same. discuss
They are no Liquid Tension Experiment.
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does Rammstein do drugs?
Rammstein is only cool for you yanks cuz you have no idea what they sing about ... for a german like myself they are seriously uncool :/
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you guys are idiots. Tool is a great band one of the best bands in the last 15 years. Great musicians great vocals and great songwriting. I dont understand how you can say that they suck. Listen to Aenima or the last CD 10,000 days every song on both of those cds are great
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you guys are idiots. Tool is a great band one of the best bands in the last 15 years. Great musicians great vocals and great songwriting. I dont understand how you can say that they suck. Listen to Aenima or the last CD 10,000 days every song on both of those cds are great
No. They are boring.
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you guys are idiots. Tool is a great band one of the best bands in the last 15 years. Great musicians great vocals and great songwriting. I dont understand how you can say that they suck. Listen to Aenima or the last CD 10,000 days every song on both of those cds are great
do you also believe that Hitler did a good job killing a "bunch" of jews? Me eyes your avatar
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do you also believe that Hitler did a good job killing a "bunch" of jews? Me eyes your avatar
Is the game Return to Castle Wolfenstein still not allowed in Germany? ;D
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Is Return to Castle Wolfenstein still not allowed in Germany? ;D
LOL I was at that point already in Ireland but damn that was funny ;D
They had HL over there were you would shoot robots and people you shoot would leak green blood loooool... damn German Game Nazis ;D
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That dude Maynard is fukkin WACKED. The music is pretty cool though, hardcore. I thought A Perfect Circle was better and a little more mainstream. I still listen have three A Perfect Circle songs on my mp3 rotation for the gym.
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That dude Maynard is fukkin WACKED. The music is pretty cool though, hardcore. I thought A Perfect Circle was better and a little more mainstream. I still listen have three A Perfect Circle songs on my mp3 rotation for the gym.
Mainstream music is the curse for the fans and a blessing for the Bands :o :o :o That shit rimes lol
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Mainstream music is the curse for the fans and a blessing for the Bands :o :o :o That shit rimes lol
That was dope, yo.
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That was dope, yo.
That is the second time that I suprised myself today lol, do you think that is a good or a bad omen?
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I think TOOL are incredible musicians from a technial standpoint, but their songs aren't that great. They have some good ones, but overall they're weak. If you want good songwriting, check out "my morning jacket" or "u2" or "radiohead" or any other mainstream rock band that isn't all that technical, but rocks wayy harder than TOOL.
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I think TOOL are incredible musicians from a technial standpoint, but their songs aren't that great. They have some good ones, but overall they're weak. If you want good songwriting, check out "my morning jacket" or "u2" or "radiohead" or any other mainstream rock band that isn't all that technical, but rocks wayy harder than TOOL.
radiohead?? please dont tell me you are serious. They are decent but not anything great. Way overrated. OK computer was one of the most overrated albums ever. I dont care what anyone says they are not that great. Tool is one of the most technical bands around. No one sounds like them. Listen to the drums and the guitar. I think alot of people have judged them recently because of their latest album. Check out some of the earlier cds. Opiate is great Aenima is great. And to say that u2 rocks harder than tool is a completly retarded statement. Tool is in a league of their own IMO, another band like that is NIN they are also in a league of their own. There is no one around now that is as good as them.
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radiohead?? please dont tell me you are serious. They are decent but not anything great. Way overrated. OK computer was one of the most overrated albums ever. I dont care what anyone says they are not that great. Tool is one of the most technical bands around. No one sounds like them. Listen to the drums and the guitar. I think alot of people have judged them recently because of their latest album. Check out some of the earlier cds. Opiate is great Aenima is great. And to say that u2 rocks harder than tool is a completly retarded statement. Tool is in a league of their own IMO, another band like that is NIN they are also in a league of their own. There is no one around now that is as good as them.
1: Tool = NOT one of the most technical bands around. Keep dreaming. They've got no remarkable technical skills compared to the real technical masters out there, but they can play their instruments, Debussey will give you that. They are not technical simply because their boring and depressive sound is kinda unique, what gave you that idea?
2: AEnima = boring. 46 and 2 is cool though. Some people might like Tools sound, but they are neither very technically proficient, nor is their music very innovative. They do not have a broad range of elements in their music either.
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I couldn't disagree more. This is the opinion most people hold about Tool due to their lack of knowledge on the subject of musical composition. Here's an time signature transcription/analysis their song Schism
The song starts in 5/4 for one measure followed by 21 measures of 6/4 (or 5/8 and 7/8 alternating), up to the first interlude, which is a bar of 3/8, three bars of 13/8, and a bar of 10/8. (This can be also interpreted as four 13/8 bars, but played with a 3/8 upbeat.) The next verse is eight bars all in 6/4 followed by another interlude that fits the same pattern as the first. This brings us to the "The poetry that comes..." section, which is four bars of 6/4 followed by one bar of 11/8. Another eight-bar verse in 6/4 follows, with an interlude containing the same as before, except this time the final 10/8 bar is replaced with an 11/8 bar setting up the middle section, which is four bars of 7/4 before settling into a pattern of alternating 12/8 and 15/8, one bar each, twelve times, containing the "Cold silence..." lyrics. At this point, at the end of the word "compassion", there are three bars of 4/4 (which nearly sounds foreign at this point), a bar of 2/4, and four bars of 4/4 setting up the "Between supposed lovers" section, which is two bars of 9/8 followed by a bar of 10/8, that pattern again, a single bar of 9/8 followed by a 13/8 bar. This leads to an alternating set of 9/8 and 5/8, appearing four times before a bar of 9/8 and a bar of 6/8. The ending "I know the pieces fit" lyrics bring back the 6/4 meter for eight bars, followed by eight bars of 4/4 to end the song.
Most bands use straight 4/4 with a mix of 3/4 thrown in here and there. One could argue that 6/8 is used a bit but it's almost always 4/4 with 8th note triplets being played (which can sometimes give the effect of a hemiola). And if you knew much about the process of recording that Tool uses then you would know that Jones and Chancellor compose the songs then Carey puts down the percussion followed by Keenan's lyrics. There are NO OTHER mainstream bands of any genre that compose songs as complex as Tool. Not that you have to like them because of that but to say that they are not technical is an assinine statement.
;) ;)
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I couldn't disagree more. This is the opinion most people hold about Tool due to their lack of knowledge on the subject of musical composition. Here's an time signature transcription/analysis their song Schism
The song starts in 5/4 for one measure followed by 21 measures of 6/4 (or 5/8 and 7/8 alternating), up to the first interlude, which is a bar of 3/8, three bars of 13/8, and a bar of 10/8. (This can be also interpreted as four 13/8 bars, but played with a 3/8 upbeat.) The next verse is eight bars all in 6/4 followed by another interlude that fits the same pattern as the first. This brings us to the "The poetry that comes..." section, which is four bars of 6/4 followed by one bar of 11/8. Another eight-bar verse in 6/4 follows, with an interlude containing the same as before, except this time the final 10/8 bar is replaced with an 11/8 bar setting up the middle section, which is four bars of 7/4 before settling into a pattern of alternating 12/8 and 15/8, one bar each, twelve times, containing the "Cold silence..." lyrics. At this point, at the end of the word "compassion", there are three bars of 4/4 (which nearly sounds foreign at this point), a bar of 2/4, and four bars of 4/4 setting up the "Between supposed lovers" section, which is two bars of 9/8 followed by a bar of 10/8, that pattern again, a single bar of 9/8 followed by a 13/8 bar. This leads to an alternating set of 9/8 and 5/8, appearing four times before a bar of 9/8 and a bar of 6/8. The ending "I know the pieces fit" lyrics bring back the 6/4 meter for eight bars, followed by eight bars of 4/4 to end the song.
Most bands use straight 4/4 with a mix of 3/4 thrown in here and there. One could argue that 6/8 is used a bit but it's almost always 4/4 with 8th note triplets being played (which can sometimes give the effect of a hemiola). And if you knew much about the process of recording that Tool uses then you would know that Jones and Chancellor compose the songs then Carey puts down the percussion followed by Keenan's lyrics. There are NO OTHER mainstream bands of any genre that compose songs as complex as Tool. Not that you have to like them because of that but to say that they are not technical is an assinine statement.
;) ;)
1: Not playing 4/4 does not make them technically proficient. Thousands of bands play those kinds of time signatures.
2: No member of Tool can show any unique technical ability on their instrument, neither in speed or accuracy.
3: Most of their songs are boring minor based without any kind of melodically innovation. The guitarist play a few boring arpeggios here and there, with no strong sense of melody. Their songs are based on boring studio overdubbs.
If you base your technical argument on some stupid time signature analysis, you should know that technical proficiency also includes speed, accuracy and being able to use innovative melodical concepts. Most of Tools music are diatonic 3 chord stuff with some vocal layers here and there. Thus, you can not claim that Tool has any great knowledge of music composition. Theoretically, their music is not much more advanced than most stupid rockbands if we take the time signature element out of the equation.
Most 16 year olds can play most of Tools music.
In other words, if you are going to argument for Tools music, you better learn more music theory than being able to tell what time signatures a Tool song is based on.
The drummer and bass player knows their shit, but they are nothing spectacular, nor are Tools songwriting. If you like them, fine, but they are nothing spectacular in a technical sense.
EDIT: In the mainstream arena, they might be a bit advanced. In the real world of music, they are nothing.
:)
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yes tool is a great example of todays lousy music
E
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If you think they are terrible musicians just listen to the drums on 46 and 2. Danny Carey is probably the best drummer of any current bands.
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yes tool is a great example of todays lousy music
E
tool dosent sound like anything else around. who do you consider a great band??
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1: Not playing 4/4 does not make them technically proficient. Thousands of bands play those kinds of time signatures.
2: No member of Tool can show any unique technical ability on their instrument, neither in speed or accuracy.
3: Most of their songs are boring minor based without any kind of melodically innovation. The guitarist play a few boring arpeggios here and there, with no strong sense of melody. Their songs are based on boring studio overdubbs.
If you base your technical argument on some stupid time signature analysis, you should know that technical proficiency also includes speed, accuracy and being able to use innovative melodical concepts. Most of Tools music are diatonic 3 chord stuff with some vocal layers here and there. Thus, you can not claim that Tool has any great knowledge of music composition. Theoretically, their music is not much more advanced than most stupid rockbands if we take the time signature element out of the equation.
Most 16 year olds can play most of Tools music.
In other words, if you are going to argument for Tools music, you better learn more music theory than being able to tell what time signatures a Tool song is based on.
The drummer and bass player knows their shit, but they are nothing spectacular, nor are Tools songwriting. If you like them, fine, but they are nothing spectacular in a technical sense.
:)
You may not like Tool but your comments are just plain dumb.
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You may not like Tool but your comments are just plain dumb.
I agree 100% although a few other bands can play that they dont. sure there are 16y olds that can play that but there are also 16y olds that can play hendrix or dimebag but they are great muscians.
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tool dosent sound like anything else around. who do you consider a great band??
not much of anything today
sounding different isn't always good
my favorites are:
Nine Inch Nails
Van Halen
Fulblown
E
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not much of anything today
sounding different isn't always good
my favorites are:
Nine Inch Nails
Van Halen
Fulblown
E
Roth is back with Halen for a new tour. 20 years too late if you ask me.
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Roth is back with Halen for a new tour. 20 years too late if you ask me.
yea i just heard that today
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not much of anything today
sounding different isn't always good
my favorites are:
Nine Inch Nails
Van Halen
Fulblown
E
LOL Fulblown is way better than Tool. There's nothing like Kevin Levrone doing Creed covers.
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Tool are great! ;D
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You may not like Tool but your comments are just plain dumb.
No, they are very accurate. In a technical sense, Tool is nothing special. They might be "advanced" rythmically compared to contemporary rockbands like Radiohead, but in the world if music they are nothing. Nothing in the complexity of their music or the performance of it suggests so.
This is a "technically advanced rock/prog band" as our little friend "Scooter" puts it:
This is just impressive, age taken into concideration:
This 12 year old boy puts Tools drummer to shame:
Roth is back with Halen for a new tour. 20 years too late if you ask me.
When the hell did this happen?
Ps: You are so cute on your avatar!! :-* WANNA PARTY?
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tool dosent sound like anything else around. who do you consider a great band??
Ps: Most of your "insight" can be found on the first 20 pages of this book: (This is used to teach 10 year olds)
http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Guide-How-Read-Music/dp/0399511229/sr=8-4/qid=1170414222/ref=pd_bbs_4/102-7087475-6168155?ie=UTF8&s=books
;D
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They are no Liquid Tension Experiment.
Ahhhh you are no fool Debussey..... LTE hummmmm? impressive
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TOOL are the greatest band on the fucking planet
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A Perfect Circle is cool too, slightly watered down version of Tool though
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If Tool sucks, then there is hardly a band out there that doesn't.
Try some of these:
Tomahawk
Fantomas
Dillenger Escape Plan
Deftones
Naked City
The Boredoms
Sleepy Time Gorilla Museum
The Secret Chiefs
Kaada
Zorn's Moonchild
Estradasphere
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I couldn't disagree more. This is the opinion most people hold about Tool due to their lack of knowledge on the subject of musical composition. Here's an time signature transcription/analysis their song Schism
The song starts in 5/4 for one measure followed by 21 measures of 6/4 (or 5/8 and 7/8 alternating), up to the first interlude, which is a bar of 3/8, three bars of 13/8, and a bar of 10/8. (This can be also interpreted as four 13/8 bars, but played with a 3/8 upbeat.) The next verse is eight bars all in 6/4 followed by another interlude that fits the same pattern as the first. This brings us to the "The poetry that comes..." section, which is four bars of 6/4 followed by one bar of 11/8. Another eight-bar verse in 6/4 follows, with an interlude containing the same as before, except this time the final 10/8 bar is replaced with an 11/8 bar setting up the middle section, which is four bars of 7/4 before settling into a pattern of alternating 12/8 and 15/8, one bar each, twelve times, containing the "Cold silence..." lyrics. At this point, at the end of the word "compassion", there are three bars of 4/4 (which nearly sounds foreign at this point), a bar of 2/4, and four bars of 4/4 setting up the "Between supposed lovers" section, which is two bars of 9/8 followed by a bar of 10/8, that pattern again, a single bar of 9/8 followed by a 13/8 bar. This leads to an alternating set of 9/8 and 5/8, appearing four times before a bar of 9/8 and a bar of 6/8. The ending "I know the pieces fit" lyrics bring back the 6/4 meter for eight bars, followed by eight bars of 4/4 to end the song.
Most bands use straight 4/4 with a mix of 3/4 thrown in here and there. One could argue that 6/8 is used a bit but it's almost always 4/4 with 8th note triplets being played (which can sometimes give the effect of a hemiola). And if you knew much about the process of recording that Tool uses then you would know that Jones and Chancellor compose the songs then Carey puts down the percussion followed by Keenan's lyrics. There are NO OTHER mainstream bands of any genre that compose songs as complex as Tool. Not that you have to like them because of that but to say that they are not technical is an assinine statement.
;) ;)
Yeah, not one part of this matters. technicality means nothing, which is why you can go on youtube or anywhere and see thousands of guys "shred" on their guitars, basses or drums. The bands that make it have incredible pop sensibilities (not a bad thing, pop means listenable, not the same as "bubblegum pop") and even better senses of melody. TOOL is a band that is comprised of very good musicians, but they are not on the level of many bands out there. They are decent at best.
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And to say that u2 rocks harder than tool is a completly retarded statement. Tool is in a league of their own IMO, another band like that is NIN they are also in a league of their own. There is no one around now that is as good as them.
I've seen Tool live, and i've seen U2 live. There's no comparison. What you mistake as "rocking" is that Tool will often play faster and with more distortion, that does not equal "rock." A rythm beaten into the ground by 4 guys who create 1 HUGE sound is rocking, and thats why when Rolling Stone in 2004 and Spin Magazine in 2006 listed U2 as the #1 live band in the world and Tool was down near number 15 or 16.
There is a reason that U2 is still the biggest band in the world 26 years into their careers and Tool are still exactly where they were 5 years ago. What U2 do from 4:50 on in this song (and the entire song for that matter) is something that Tool could never hope of doing:
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dude u2 fucking sucks. I am sorry to disagree with you. They are just one of those bands that I hate. No real reason they are decent musicians but I hate them.
Dream theatre is a great band I wont disagree with that. I am not a huge fan of their music but they are all great at what they do. I like harder faster music, so of course I am going to like tool. Like I said before there are people out there that can play tool, and there are people that I know that can play Dream theatre aswell, does that make them less talented? No it dosent.
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here are some eamples of what I like
Emperor
Dimmu Borgir
&mode=related&search=
Cradle Of Filth
one of my favorite songs
Cannibal Corpse
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here are some eamples of what I like
Emperor
Dimmu Borgir
&mode=related&search=
Cradle Of Filth
one of my favorite songs
Cannibal Corpse
you have horrible taste. As someone in the music industry (i get paid to perform and i have been around LA rock scene), i can honestly say you have horrible taste. But thats just my opinion, which ultimately means nothing. I wouldn't tell you to stop listening to what you like just as what you wouldn't tell me to stop listening to what i like. But wow, those bands really suck... IMO ;)
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Ahhhh you are no fool Debussey..... LTE hummmmm? impressive
Jordan Rudess is a fucking genius. He clearly gave Dream Theater a big boost. You clearly have a great taste in music dear Lord. You are Debussey approved. :)
Liquid Tension Experiment is great, and if you are in for a challenge on your instrument, try to play a few of their tunes.
Neither Tool, LTE or Dream Theater is "impossible" for most musicians that take their playing seriously. Debussey actually played the Tool song 46 and 2 on the bass at 16 years old (brutal coverband with sunglasses. Good good memories. :) ) (but bass guitar is not Debusseys instrument), and with the power of Gary Busey, some Liquid Tension Experiment tunes has also come into Debusseys fingers on a certain string instrument.
This was of course not done with pure practice. Gary Busey gets all ze credit.
But trust Debussey, Tool is nothing special when it comes to the technical, nor the compositional side.
For those of you that like Tool, good for you, Debussey understands that their songs might have appeal to many, but do not make them into something they are not.
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here are some eamples of what I like
Emperor
Dimmu Borgir
&mode=related&search=
Cradle Of Filth
one of my favorite songs
Cannibal Corpse
Dimmu Borgir is kinda cool. :)
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No, they are very accurate. In a technical sense, Tool is nothing special. They might be "advanced" rythmically compared to contemporary rockbands like Radiohead, but in the world if music they are nothing. Nothing in the complexity of their music or the performance of it suggests so.
This is a "technically advanced rock/prog band" as our little friend "Scooter" puts it:
This is just impressive, age taken into concideration:
This 12 year old boy puts Tools drummer to shame:
When the hell did this happen?
Ps: You are so cute on your avatar!! :-* WANNA PARTY?
I knew you were gonna put up some Dream Theater. I saw them a few times but i can't stand James Lebre, his stage presence is gay at best. Everybody else in that band is awsome though.
Roth and Halen just signed a deal to play some shows this summer but it has "money grabber" all over it. I would have loved to have seen them 20 years ago when they were at their peek.
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Jordan Rudess is a fucking genius. He clearly gave Dream Theater a big boost. You clearly have a great taste in music dear Lord. You are Debussey approved. :)
Liquid Tension Experiment is great, and if you are in for a challenge on your instrument, try to play a few of their tunes.
Neither Tool, LTE or Dream Theater is "impossible" for most musicians that take their playing seriously. Debussey actually played the Tool song 46 and 2 on the bass at 16 years old (brutal coverband with sunglasses. Good good memories. :) ) (but bass guitar is not Debusseys instrument), and with the power of Gary Busey, some Liquid Tension Experiment tunes has also come into Debusseys fingers on a certain string instrument.
This was of course not done with pure practice. Gary Busey gets all ze credit.
But trust Debussey, Tool is nothing special when it comes to the technical, nor the compositional side.
For those of you that like Tool, good for you, Debussey understands that their songs might have appeal to many, but do not make them into something they are not.
I met Jordan on 2 occations, hes a cool cat and a real gent. He took the time to answer a bunch of my questions. There are several DT songs I can play but most are from Kevin moore, Pull me under, Wait for Sleep, Metrop pt 1. I have managed the Octovarium Moog solo from JR but most of him is beyond the Humungous's skills on the keys.
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you have horrible taste. As someone in the music industry (i get paid to perform and i have been around LA rock scene), i can honestly say you have horrible taste. But thats just my opinion, which ultimately means nothing. I wouldn't tell you to stop listening to what you like just as what you wouldn't tell me to stop listening to what i like. But wow, those bands really suck... IMO ;)
I can understand you not liking them. but I love them they are really good at what they do. alot of people dont like them no biggie to me but I love death metal
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I'm a 48 year old teacher coach that really enjoys listening to Tool! I do wish the vocals were a bit stronger. I've heard they are awsome live.
I've seen every line-up VH has toured with and will probably go see them this time around. Rumor has it that Woolfie is playing base because Micheal Anthony would rather party with Sammy. Check out ClassicVH for tour info.
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I can understand you not liking them. but I love them they are really good at what they do. alot of people dont like them no biggie to me but I love death metal
Do you like mudvain?
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I've seen Tool twice and A Perfect Circle twice. Most recent being Tool only 2 weeks ago at the gold coast big day out. To me the concept of "rocking" is largely moot as music withstanding, the more money there is for production the better and more epic it can feel. Its not really hard to get sucked into the show when you've got multi storey video screens and lighting out of this world.
Tool are a fantastic band and they have a vocalist who impresses me by actually being able to sing like he does on the albums. Infact, in rock and metal it is very uncommon to get bands who really replicate their stuff well in the live situation atall. Thumbs up to all those who play tight and can really play.
There isn't that much difference between U2 in a bar under shitty lights and an average PA and tool in the same circumstance. Simply consider whether you appreciate the music and you have your answer. In the headlining bands production and "budget" do mean a lot. Tool have come a long way and in 20 years if they are still going they are likely to be held in the same awe as U2 touring with the same huge scope. I'm willing to bet that despite the fact I have no interest in U2 whatsoever I'd be quite impressed with it all if I saw it in person.
Much of what Tool do is simple to replicate, I think its fantastic from a composition point of view and it suprises me to hear that people think their music sounds the same (though I suspect that its a common thing for there always to be someone who thinks along those lines). In the realm of "rock" they are about as far from formulaic or stale as I've seen really. None of their albums have sounded the same, they've all been extremely different from each other. I think its pretty hard to be a guitar oriented band and make 4.5 albums that are vastly different.
Technicality is a pissing contest. Bands like Dream Theatre are cool but they bum me out when I listen to someone like Portnoy talking about making music like its maths rather than something soulful. Fok it. Thats like saying Dragonforce solos are more better than David Gilmour's work because he doesn't show off supremely stupid speed fretting. Put away your cocks gentlemen.. either you get it or don't. I don't mind that some bands model themselves on technical excellence but I think its wrong to use that to justify Tool as those guys never have claimed to be masters, just that they're doing something a little different.
As for using odd timing. I will say this, the concept of doing it for the sake of it doesn't impress me but it does impress me that tool can write songs that can interest halfwits who normally wouldn't be able to resonate with anything but 4/4. That in itself is more of a "technical" achievement than showing off.
Anyway, 2 days and I'm seeing Roger Waters.. personally I'd rather see Gilmour but I know Roger tours with some very accomplished musicians so I'm looking forward to it. Plus they are going to play the entire dark side of the moon :) Its been a good month or so of music.. saw tenacious D a little earlier - good for a laugh.
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Awsome post rocket, I agree with everything you said. The shredding thing gets boring after a while and unless your trying to learn an insturment or have learned to master your insturment, no one really gives a shit about Vai's string skipping, sweeping, etc.. technique. They just wanna hear good music.
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RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE..NUFF SAID
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I knew you were gonna put up some Dream Theater. I saw them a few times but i can't stand James Lebre, his stage presence is gay at best. Everybody else in that band is awsome though.
Roth and Halen just signed a deal to play some shows this summer but it has "money grabber" all over it. I would have loved to have seen them 20 years ago when they were at their peek.
Gotta agree with you on Labrie, he is the weakest link.
Can't wait to see Roth with Van Halen. Sammy Hagar was a good vocalist, but he could simply not match Roth. Roth is a fucking nutcase.
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I've seen Tool twice and A Perfect Circle twice. Most recent being Tool only 2 weeks ago at the gold coast big day out. To me the concept of "rocking" is largely moot as music withstanding, the more money there is for production the better and more epic it can feel. Its not really hard to get sucked into the show when you've got multi storey video screens and lighting out of this world.
Tool are a fantastic band and they have a vocalist who impresses me by actually being able to sing like he does on the albums. Infact, in rock and metal it is very uncommon to get bands who really replicate their stuff well in the live situation atall. Thumbs up to all those who play tight and can really play.
There isn't that much difference between U2 in a bar under shitty lights and an average PA and tool in the same circumstance. Simply consider whether you appreciate the music and you have your answer. In the headlining bands production and "budget" do mean a lot. Tool have come a long way and in 20 years if they are still going they are likely to be held in the same awe as U2 touring with the same huge scope. I'm willing to bet that despite the fact I have no interest in U2 whatsoever I'd be quite impressed with it all if I saw it in person.
Much of what Tool do is simple to replicate, I think its fantastic from a composition point of view and it suprises me to hear that people think their music sounds the same (though I suspect that its a common thing for there always to be someone who thinks along those lines). In the realm of "rock" they are about as far from formulaic or stale as I've seen really. None of their albums have sounded the same, they've all been extremely different from each other. I think its pretty hard to be a guitar oriented band and make 4.5 albums that are vastly different.
Technicality is a pissing contest. Bands like Dream Theatre are cool but they bum me out when I listen to someone like Portnoy talking about making music like its maths rather than something soulful. Fok it. Thats like saying Dragonforce solos are more better than David Gilmour's work because he doesn't show off supremely stupid speed fretting. Put away your cocks gentlemen.. either you get it or don't. I don't mind that some bands model themselves on technical excellence but I think its wrong to use that to justify Tool as those guys never have claimed to be masters, just that they're doing something a little different.
As for using odd timing. I will say this, the concept of doing it for the sake of it doesn't impress me but it does impress me that tool can write songs that can interest halfwits who normally wouldn't be able to resonate with anything but 4/4. That in itself is more of a "technical" achievement than showing off.
Anyway, 2 days and I'm seeing Roger Waters.. personally I'd rather see Gilmour but I know Roger tours with some very accomplished musicians so I'm looking forward to it. Plus they are going to play the entire dark side of the moon :) Its been a good month or so of music.. saw tenacious D a little earlier - good for a laugh.
Some good points here dear Busey follower.
Remember: ones musical taste changes when you are a musician.
When one learn to play technical stuff, shredlike music becomes better.
Many people can not stand jazz. Yet, when they learn more music theory, and grasps the concepts + learn to play some jazz, jazz becomes great music.
And dear Rocket: Music IS math. Portnoys drum video is excellent. So shut the f**k up. :)
Technique can be abused (Dragonforce, Herman in one son of a slut, and he is not that great at shredding either), or it can be used to improve the music: Dream Theater, Holdsworth, Shawn Lane, DiMeola, Symphony X. Even good old Django and Stocelo did some "shredding" back in the day. Even Paganini was a fucking shredder.
Think of technique as an added dimension to musicianship, it enables the player to express him/herself in more ways than without it. In certain styles, it is mandatory. What would classical piano be without extreme technical ability?
Pink Floyd = great as well. They are true legends.
Debussey do not say that Tool = a shitty band because they avoid technical playing. Debussey simply responded to this little bitch "Scooters" stupid posts. It is all a matter of taste, and Debussey can not stand Tools music. For those that like them, fine.
Besides that, Dream Theater = the best music. And this comes from Debussey, a person that Gary Busey put on a classical and jazz diet many years ago.
Awsome post rocket, I agree with everything you said. The shredding thing gets boring after a while and unless your trying to learn an insturment or have learned to master your insturment, no one really gives a shit about Vai's string skipping, sweeping, etc.. technique. They just wanna hear good music.
Vai has a lot of soul to his music, and he uses technique to express some of it. He has some funny ones (read: Freak show excess ;D, his tribute to Bulgarian wedding music), but you can not claim that Vai lacks expression or soul. Listen to "Sisters" or "For the love of god".
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I met Jordan on 2 occations, hes a cool cat and a real gent. He took the time to answer a bunch of my questions. There are several DT songs I can play but most are from Kevin moore, Pull me under, Wait for Sleep, Metrop pt 1. I have managed the Octovarium Moog solo from JR but most of him is beyond the Humungous's skills on the keys.
You are an excellent human being dear Lord. Continue your quest to master JRs playing. In time, you will.
Have you heard Kevin Moores new stuff?
:)
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debussey what do you think of rage against the machine
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You are an excellent human being dear Lord. Continue your quest to master JRs playing. In time, you will.
Have you heard Kevin Moores new stuff?
:)
If you speak of Chroma Key, then yes I have hear some of Kevmos stuff, as well as his OSI stuff with Mike Portnoy, which is nothing less than genius 8)
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debussey what do you think of rage against the machine
They are a very good band. Their music has a great attitude to it, and Tom Morello is an innovative guitarist. They made a great addition to the top 20 crap in the 90s.
Debussey does not agree with most of RATM's political beliefs, but Debussey respects that they are willing to fight for what they believe in = Debussey respects the band a lot.
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If you speak of Chroma Key, then yes I have hear some of Kevmos stuff, as well as his OSI stuff with Mike Portnoy, which is nothing less than genius 8)
YES!!!!!!! 8)
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They are a very good band. Their music has a great attitude to it, and Tom Morello is an innovative guitarist. They made a great addition to the top 20 crap in the 90s.
Debussey does not agree with most of RATM's political beliefs, but Debussey respects that they are willing to fight for what they believe in = Debussey respects the band a lot.
kool.by the way they are making a comeback this year,more of a reunion i mean
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kool.by the way they are making a comeback this year,more of a reunion i mean
8)
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Do you like mudvain?
not really. Some of the 1st stuff they cameout with was pretty good, but the new stuff I am not really big on. I really dont like any of the new rock shit that is out there right now. It all sounds the same.
Debussey all I was trying to say is that Tool is pretty technical to be as popular as they are. Most of the really technical bands (Dream theatre) are not really well known because most people dont want to listen to them. Most popular bands are really boring and they all sound the same. That is what sets tool apart from the other bands that are around right now they are different. If you dont like them then that is fine.
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RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE..NUFF SAID
probably the best band of the 90's, although that ain't sayin much
E
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If you think they are terrible musicians just listen to the drums on 46 and 2. Danny Carey is probably the best drummer of any current bands.
Ever heard of RUSH?
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wow Debussey, i must say ive agreed with absolutely everything uve said in tbis thread. we must have the same exact musical views.
Ever heard of RUSH?
Rush is one of the greatest bands ever.
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wow Debussey, i must say ive agreed with absolutely everything uve said in tbis thread. we must have the same exact musical views.
Rush is one of the greatest bands ever.
Rush is an awesome band. I love them all of their stuff is great.Ever heard of RUSH?
I think that thunderfck said any current bands I dont think that you could qualify Rush as a current band.
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wow Debussey, i must say ive agreed with absolutely everything uve said in tbis thread. we must have the same exact musical views.
Rush is one of the greatest bands ever.
You are a good man John Matrix. You have seen what Gary Busey preaches.
:)
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If you want to talk technical from a big name band, look no further than the dave matthews band. I don't care for any of their new music (they haven't put out a good album since "before these crowded streets in 98? 99?), but they are a technicaly skilled band beyond compare in the popular music world. Their drummer, carter beauford, puts all other technical drummers in popular rock to shame.
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YES!!!!!!! 8)
Ahhhhh Debussey is Humungous approved!
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Ahhhhh Debussey is Humungous approved!
8) Debussey is honored. 8)
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Sure, I have quite a lot of instrumentation surrounding me as I type this and each additional piece allows me to appreciate more and more aspects of music. I had no appreciation for autechre until I become one with a sampler. Now I see the technical ability that they display - it doesn't really make me think "these are great songs" though - just I wonder how long they sat their warping samples and putting them together to produce their crazy collages.
And dear Rocket: Music IS math. Portnoys drum video is excellent. So shut the f**k up. :)
Music isn't math but like anything it can be represented as such. His video is good - I liked it.. but it was hardly endearing towards being soulfully creative.. easy for me to say though, I'm an advocate of meaningful creation and I fully admit that in some cases technical approaches seem to garner interesting results too.
Think of technique as an added dimension to musicianship, it enables the player to express him/herself in more ways than without it. In certain styles, it is mandatory. What would classical piano be without extreme technical ability?
Yes, technique doesn't belong at the centre of any discussion as to whether any piece of music is "good". It enhances (and detracts at times) but should not be focussed on when discussing the attractability of a band towards your tastes. Certainly, I'm well aware that you did not bring it up though. Its atypical of shall we say, less endowed Tool fans to bring up such a topic. Part of the veil of mystique that sucks so many in. I started listening to Tool long before I was even aware that they were considered pseudo technical.. I just liked the sound and vibe. Someone said to me a few days ago that they were "everybody's favourite fake underground band". I liked that.. so true.
Besides that, Dream Theater = the best music. And this comes from Debussey, a person that Gary Busey put on a classical and jazz diet many years ago.
Best? I could never pick the best music.. only the "best" music for the moment and that could be anything. There isn't much jazz or classical stuff that I hear and think "this is a pile of shit" like almost every rock and metal band sounds like. Thats why those genre's are so fascinating.. More sincerity in that type of thing. You don't join a jazz band and make derivative nonsense dreaming/thinking you're going to be the next big thing.
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Sure, I have quite a lot of instrumentation surrounding me as I type this and each additional piece allows me to appreciate more and more aspects of music. I had no appreciation for autechre until I become one with a sampler. Now I see the technical ability that they display - it doesn't really make me think "these are great songs" though - just I wonder how long they sat their warping samples and putting them together to produce their crazy collages.
Music isn't math but like anything it can be represented as such. His video is good - I liked it.. but it was hardly endearing towards being soulfully creative.. easy for me to say though, I'm an advocate of meaningful creation and I fully admit that in some cases technical approaches seem to garner interesting results too.
Whether music is math or represented as math is dependand on the point of view you take. In other words, we are both right.
Remember that each person is different. Mike Portnoys way of being creative includes math and technical ability, as this is what he hears in his head. So, he is creative in his own way. His (along with the rest of Dream Theater) creative style might not appeal to the mainstream and certain other people, but he is still as creative as other musicians. (Debussey does not imply that you think Portnoy lacks creativity).
Something is wrong when a player start to compare different versions of a Aadd9 sweep to see what "looks best" at the expense of the music.
Yes, technique doesn't belong at the centre of any discussion as to whether any piece of music is "good". It enhances (and detracts at times) but should not be focussed on when discussing the attractability of a band towards your tastes. Certainly, I'm well aware that you did not bring it up though. Its atypical of shall we say, less endowed Tool fans to bring up such a topic. Part of the veil of mystique that sucks so many in. I started listening to Tool long before I was even aware that they were considered pseudo technical.. I just liked the sound and vibe. Someone said to me a few days ago that they were "everybody's favourite fake underground band". I liked that.. so true.
Technique has a place in the discussion of the attractability of a band. Many musical ideas needs technical proficiency on the instrument to be represented, and the technical ability of the player will also determine the presentation and quality of the final product. Thus, it is a requirement and a shaping element for the music that ultimately is attractive to your senses, and the building blocks that builds a more complex final product that is to be judged and appreciated is a natural ingredient when discussing the respective issue. Debussey agrees with you the music should be the main focus in the discussion (as you wrote), but the technical ability of the musicians should not be excluded when discussing bands or music. Remember that we buy the "whole package" of a musician, and technical ability shapes not only the music, but also the way we see the musician, which ultimately shapes our experience of the music.
Best? I could never pick the best music.. only the "best" music for the moment and that could be anything. There isn't much jazz or classical stuff that I hear and think "this is a pile of shit" like almost every rock and metal band sounds like. Thats why those genre's are so fascinating.. More sincerity in that type of thing. You don't join a jazz band and make derivative nonsense dreaming/thinking you're going to be the next big thing.
Debussey wrote DT=best as a subjective evaluation of DT. You are right about the fact that most metal bands should like shit, and that a lot of the non commerce music often equals more quality, since the players focus is in the music itself, not the "dreams". When the primary agenda is music, the quality often improves. (Dream Theater could probably write several top 20 songs, but they stayed true to their roots.)
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If you want to talk technical from a big name band, look no further than the dave matthews band. I don't care for any of their new music (they haven't put out a good album since "before these crowded streets in 98? 99?), but they are a technicaly skilled band beyond compare in the popular music world. Their drummer, carter beauford, puts all other technical drummers in popular rock to shame.
indeed, Carter Beauford is one of the greats.
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I know this is an old post but I just got back from seeing Tool live. All I can say is that if you have not seen them live you should before you start to trash them. Nearly everyone (and I mean everyone!) stood for the entire 2 hour performance including this old man. They were awesome! Yes they had a great light show and graphics, but they were all about the music. They stood up there and just kicked you in the nads.
I would go see them over every other band mentioned in this thread (especially since I haven't heard of half of them) they were that good live.
Hey but this is just my ever humble opinion!
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they are good musicians ill give them that, but their music sucks, it is uninspired and one-dimensional and all their songs sound the same. discuss
They are on tour now. I was going to work their concert yesterday but was booked for another event
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If you think they are terrible musicians just listen to the drums on 46 and 2. Danny Carey is probably the best drummer of any current bands.
Id agree there,and radiohead make me want to hang my self :(