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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on February 11, 2007, 10:08:22 PM
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Mods - pin me?
There are four basic positions, near as I can tell. feel free to add any I missed.
1. Full retreat from Iraq - either immediate or modified in a year or less
2. Retreat from cities and guard pipeline/bases/border, leaving cities to Iraqi forces to handle
3. "Stay course" with same or small troop increases of 15% annually (Bush's current surge over 5 yrs)
4. Overwhelimingly crush insurgents with 200,000+ troops and win outright.
So far,
Hilary - promises to be out within one year (1 or 2?)
Obama - promises quick withdrawl (1)
McCain - praises bush's current policy (3)
Guiliani - praises bush's current policy (3)
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5. Pull some Marines. Send in Rangers when targets need annihilating, SEALs for intel and same as Rangers, SF for great intel, Delta for same and great take downs. All the major intel can be used to bomb the shit out fo targets and further pull out more troops. Use Mercs. I like it. Lol
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How do we honestly know what McCain will do? This may be wishful thinking on my part but I think he's the man to right that ship. As cap pointed out in another thread he's liked and respected by Democrats as well as Republicans. Not all of course but enough so that he could bridge the gap between the two parties.
I'm holding out hope that he's the man. If he isn't I don't see anyone else that can do the job. Yikes.
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How do we honestly know what McCain will do? This may be wishful thinking on my part but I think he's the man to right that ship. As cap pointed out in another thread he's liked and respected by Democrats as well as Republicans. Not all of course but enough so that he could bridge the gap between the two parties.
I'm holding out hope that he's the man. If he isn't I don't see anyone else that can do the job. Yikes.
He really can bridge the gap. I like him and having been in war, he knows strategy better than any other candidate.
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pull out and install a brutal US friendly dictator. guard the oil infrastructure.
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How do we honestly know what McCain will do?
He is choosing the LEAST popular position.
it is far more likely that a candidate would choose a popular position, then flip flop once in office.
But when you run on somethign no one wants, chances are you're not gonna change. The man in 70 years old, running on a pro - war stance. No way he is worried about long term popularity. He's doing what he believes is right - staying the course - and its unliley he'll change.
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pull out and install a brutal US friendly dictator. guard the oil infrastructure.
I agree completely. That would be option 2 above.
The reason we won't? I think it's defense spending. We'll need what, 20,000 men TOPS in tents with technology, to guard the entire thing? If you send the other 120k home, suddenly haliburton and KBR lose a big chunk of income. Will Bush allow that? Thus far, he has caved to their requests.
Interestingly, the iraqi people want us out too.
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He is choosing the LEAST popular position.
it is far more likely that a candidate would choose a popular position, then flip flop once in office.
But when you run on somethign no one wants, chances are you're not gonna change. The man in 70 years old, running on a pro - war stance. No way he is worried about long term popularity. He's doing what he believes is right - staying the course - and its unliley he'll change.
There is still the possibility that he's doing what he thinks will win him the nomination.
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Mods - pin me?
There are four basic positions, near as I can tell. feel free to add any I missed.
1. Full retreat from Iraq - either immediate or modified in a year or less
2. Retreat from cities and guard pipeline/bases/border, leaving cities to Iraqi forces to handle
3. "Stay course" with same or small troop increases of 15% annually (Bush's current surge over 5 yrs)
4. Overwhelimingly crush insurgents with 200,000+ troops and win outright.
So far,
Hilary - promises to be out within one year (1 or 2?)
Obama - promises quick withdrawl (1)
McCain - praises bush's current policy (3)
Guiliani - praises bush's current policy (3)
There are more than four candidates in the race.
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There is still the possibility that he's doing what he thinks will win him the nomination.
Possible. If so, I would seriously question his integrity.
If he'll work to influence others to prolong the war for 2 more years (and 1500 more dead troops) just to win the nomination, man, that's just evil!
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There are more than four candidates in the race.
REALLY? HOLY SHIT!!!
yeah, I know. hence the "so far" phrase. Everyone chip in what they know about the candidates.
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Possible. If so, I would seriously question his integrity.
If he'll work to influence others to prolong the war for 2 more years (and 1500 more dead troops) just to win the nomination, man, that's just evil!
We're not getting out of there anytime soon. I don't see it as prolonging the war for 2 more years. I don't like the fatalities either Rob but we have to realize we're there to stay, at least for the foreseeable future. I'd much rather have McCain in charge than anyone else currently in the running.
As for your integrity comment, yes, and I can't believe I'm saying this but that ship has sailed. All politicians in the big time sold their souls long ago.
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true. I know we need their oil, and i'm okay with that. I'd just like to see us leave the cities and guard the resources, and let them police themselves.
it's a decent compromise - there will be some skull cracking, but it's happening anyway. let it happen once, let one side win, and our men will be protecting the real reason we went there.
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new york city was a fuking mess back in the 80's.. an absolute warzone.. the nypd couldnt handle the problems- drug loards ruled the streets, gang members out numbered the police, crack just hit the street...so the dea-fbi-marshalls-guard.... they all came in to take controll of the city.. took several years but eventually the crime stoped the nypd grew and today its one of the safest cities in america..
many officers were killed in that time, but it was worth it today. it took some time but a once 'pathetic' police force has become the model for the rest of american police departments. the same thing needs to happen in iraq- once it does we will all be safer..
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new york city was a fuking mess back in the 80's.. an absolute warzone.. the nypd couldnt handle the problems- drug loards ruled the streets, gang members out numbered the police, crack just hit the street...so the dea-fbi-marshalls-guard.... they all came in to take controll of the city.. took several years but eventually the crime stoped the nypd grew and today its one of the safest cities in america..
many officers were killed in that time, but it was worth it today. it took some time but a once 'pathetic' police force has become the model for the rest of american police departments. the same thing needs to happen in iraq- once it does we will all be safer..
A big plus for Giuliani.
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new york city was a fuking mess back in the 80's.. an absolute warzone.. the nypd couldnt handle the problems- drug loards ruled the streets, gang members out numbered the police, crack just hit the street...so the dea-fbi-marshalls-guard.... they all came in to take controll of the city.. took several years but eventually the crime stoped the nypd grew and today its one of the safest cities in america..
many officers were killed in that time, but it was worth it today. it took some time but a once 'pathetic' police force has become the model for the rest of american police departments. the same thing needs to happen in iraq- once it does we will all be safer..
How did all that crack get on the streets of NYC to begin with?
The San Jose Mercury a tiny little newspaper had a lot of undisputed things to say about it, as did Michael Ruppert
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A big plus for Giuliani.
Giuliani can't run on what he did 20 years ago, when what he did 6 years ago is so fresh in people's minds,
...and getting fresher everyday. He couldn't beat Hilary for the Senate, and he won't beat her for the White House
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Giuliani can't run on what he did 20 years ago, when what he did 6 years ago is so fresh in people's minds,
...and getting fresher everyday. He couldn't beat Hilary for the Senate, and he won't beat her for the White House
Hmmm...you need to take into account the fact that there are other states beside NY and people remember what he did in 9/11 and how he cleaned up NY with Bratton via Zero Tolerance Policing.
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Hmmm...you need to take into account the fact that there are other states beside NY and people remember what he did in 9/11 and how he cleaned up NY with Bratton via Zero Tolerance Policing.
And you need to remember there are two video clips that Loose Change Final Cut will MAKE SURE everyone in America sees.
First clip - On 9/11, Rudy telling CNN camera "I was warned about the towers collapsing" ten minutes before the first tower collapsed. Official story is that no one knew. As the firefighters streamed in, to their death, Rudy got a heads-up? You explain it!
Second clip - Rudy telling the camera that the FEMA team set up camp on Monday night so they'd be ready for Tuesday morning. Explain that!
Rudy has his demons. His excitement to be the big guy on TV led to him saying things which didn't click with the official story!
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Hmmm...you need to take into account the fact that there are other states beside NY and people remember what he did in 9/11 and how he cleaned up NY with Bratton via Zero Tolerance Policing.
That's my point Cap. His record on crime in NYC is something that might resonate with NY voters older than 30 able to remember, but it's foreign to the rest of the county. 911 though is not just a NY issue, that's federal, ...much fresher in people's memories, ...and there are far too many people all over the country asking questions about 911, and Giuliani's part in it. If Giuliani is on the Republican ticket, you can only bet more and more questions concerning his 911 role will emerge. It's inevitable.
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I think you all underestimate the general populace and their lack of information. People do not talk about 9/11 in terms of conspiracy on a regular basis, or at all from those I have encountered, especially on the east coast. Most people just remember it as a terrible disaster. You take the fact that a select few question 9/11 and extrapolate to the entire country but that just doesn't fit. If you want to talk about his qualifications then I think we would have a better discussion.
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I think you all underestimate the general populace and their lack of information. People do not talk about 9/11 in terms of conspiracy on a regular basis, or at all from those I have encountered, especially on the east coast. Most people just remember it as a terrible disaster. You take the fact that a select few question 9/11 and extrapolate to the entire country but that just doesn't fit. If you want to talk about his qualifications then I think we would have a better discussion.
You're a staunch republican who has been shown testimony by WTc witnesses, which you call crazy. Your mind is closed. In real life, people smell that on you.
Bring it up. You'd be surprised who believes "inside job". When you start a conversation with "Some asshole on a message board said something crazy...", they're going to nod to avoid dealing with you on it. If you start a convo with "I don't know what to think about the NYPD and USAF people saying WTC7 was a controlled demo. Their testimony points to explosives, but that would mean govt compliance and possible foreknowledge. What do you guys think?"
Sometimes, when someone is a douchebag pompous and they try to dominate every situation with their beliefs, it's easier to ignore them. I don't being up 911 much in real life. people get emotional.
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Giuliani can't run on what he did 20 years ago, when what he did 6 years ago is so fresh in people's minds,
...and getting fresher everyday. He couldn't beat Hilary for the Senate, and he won't beat her for the White House
Dang Jag. You start to sound like 240 when you make stuff up like this. Giuliani was not mayor of New York 20 years ago. He served from 1994 to 2001.
Hillary didn't beat Rudi for the Senate. Rudi withdrew before the election after he was diagnosed with prostate cancer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani#Run_for_United_States_Senate.2C_2000
Your response?
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You start to sound like 240 when you make stuff up like this.
you're the dreamer who lied about being a "college professor".
Dude, it's like 9 am Hawaii time, right? Shouldn't you be teaching your classes of MBA students your views on history?
HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAA
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Dang Jag. You start to sound like 240 when you make stuff up like this. Giuliani was not mayor of New York 20 years ago. He served from 1994 to 2001.
Hillary didn't beat Rudi for the Senate. Rudi withdrew before the election after he was diagnosed with prostate cancer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudy_Giuliani#Run_for_United_States_Senate.2C_2000
Your response?
Who are you... the typo police? Is it my fault the '1' key is so close to the '2' key on my keyboard?
You try typing with nails as long as mine. >:( Yes, I knew Giuliani withdrew from the race for "medical reasons".
It is also my personal belief it had less to do with medical reasons than other reasons, ...but that's merely speculation on my part so I didn't bring it into the discussion, ...other than to say he couldn't beat her then, ...and he won't beat her now. Giuliani is not high enough on the food chain. I'm leaving it at that.
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you're the dreamer who lied about being a "college professor".
Dude, it's like 9 am Hawaii time, right? Shouldn't you be teaching your classes of MBA students your views on history?
HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAA
Actually it's just after 7am in Hawaii, ...but ya... he can be amusing when he's not being such an obtuse pain.
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You're a staunch republican who has been shown testimony by WTc witnesses, which you call crazy. Your mind is closed. In real life, people smell that on you.
Bring it up. You'd be surprised who believes "inside job". When you start a conversation with "Some asshole on a message board said something crazy...", they're going to nod to avoid dealing with you on it. If you start a convo with "I don't know what to think about the NYPD and USAF people saying WTC7 was a controlled demo. Their testimony points to explosives, but that would mean govt compliance and possible foreknowledge. What do you guys think?"
Sometimes, when someone is a douchebag pompous and they try to dominate every situation with their beliefs, it's easier to ignore them. I don't being up 911 much in real life. people get emotional.
What does it smell like? Do tell. I have brought you and your "conspiracies" up Rob. To people I know in classes, back east, NJ, NY and they laugh. I brought it up to my firefighter cousin who served for 30 years and is an expert on high rises and he laughed. I don't consider myself pompous and I prefer asshole to douchebag. Personal attacks are pointless at this time. Three people saying it was an explosion and a beat cop saying the building was gonna blow up which "can be interpreted" in more than just an explosion is plausible. You are just as narrow minded as the next person pal. You believe what you believe and dismiss others. The only difference between us is that I post facts.
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What does it smell like? Do tell. I have brought you and your "conspiracies" up Rob. To people I know in classes, back east, NJ, NY and they laugh. I brought it up to my firefighter cousin who served for 30 years and is an expert on high rises and he laughed. I don't consider myself pompous and I prefer asshole to douchebag. Personal attacks are pointless at this time. Three people saying it was an explosion and a beat cop saying the building was gonna blow up which "can be interpreted" in more than just an explosion is plausible. You are just as narrow minded as the next person pal. You believe what you believe and dismiss others. The only difference between us is that I post facts.
Actually in Rob's credit, ...he used to be narrow minded.
He has since dared to explore into the forbidden, and has become very vocal with what he discovered.
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you're the dreamer who lied about being a "college professor".
Dude, it's like 9 am Hawaii time, right? Shouldn't you be teaching your classes of MBA students your views on history?
HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAA
::) What is your next mail order degree? I vote for something related to economics or law.
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Actually in Rob's credit, ...he used to be narrow minded.
He has since dared to explore into the forbidden, and has become very vocal with what he discovered.
And become narrow minded for the other side. His posts prove that. His dismissal of evidence proves that.
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Who are you... the typo police? Is it my fault the '1' key is so close to the '2' key on my keyboard?
You try typing with nails as long as mine. >:( Yes, I knew Giuliani withdrew from the race for "medical reasons".
It is also my personal belief it had less to do with medical reasons than other reasons, ...but that's merely speculation on my part so I didn't bring it into the discussion, ...other than to say he couldn't beat her then, ...and he won't beat her now. Giuliani is not high enough on the food chain. I'm leaving it at that.
Oh stop woman. So you really meant to say "10" instead of "20" and you didn't really mean to say Hillary beat Giuliani, you meant say he dropped out because he knew he would lose. Sure. ::)
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Oh stop woman. So you really meant to say "10" instead of "20" and you didn't really mean to say Hillary beat Giuliani, you meant say he dropped out because he knew he would lose. Sure. ::)
I forgot about that. I knew he had cancer and that had something to do with it. I bet people on hear will bring up polls from then but that is no guarantee he would lose or win because the election with him in it never happened.
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Actually it's just after 7am in Hawaii, ...but ya... he can be amusing when he's not being such an obtuse pain.
LOL. You're both wrong. Only goes to prove that neither one of you can get your facts straight. But when in doubt, just make them up, right? :D
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What does it smell like? Do tell. I have brought you and your "conspiracies" up Rob. To people I know in classes, back east, NJ, NY and they laugh. I brought it up to my firefighter cousin who served for 30 years and is an expert on high rises and he laughed. I don't consider myself pompous and I prefer asshole to douchebag. Personal attacks are pointless at this time. Three people saying it was an explosion and a beat cop saying the building was gonna blow up which "can be interpreted" in more than just an explosion is plausible. You are just as narrow minded as the next person pal. You believe what you believe and dismiss others. The only difference between us is that I post facts.
Dude, I understand global economics and I couldn't accept the global drug trade numbers. I've written papers on the Reistag Fire and Poland attack, the USS maine, and other self-attacks.
It took a year of staring at those videos of the demolitions before it *clicked* for me. I was a lifelong republican.
And yes, I know the type cause I used to BE that. Lifelong repub. Fck those (insert mean name for arabs here). Libs are pussies. Clinton was worthless. War makes us stronger. Bin laden is evil and very very lucky.
If it took me a year of wrestling with it to accept it, and I already knew about the economics issues and history of govts to self-attack to push political agendas, it might take you longer. THis isn't a dig on you, it's outright honestly. I wouldn't expect most people to have BOTH the cognitive abilities (to comprehend the complex operation and ramifications on all levels) AND the shrewdness to put away that naive mindset of "my daddy in DC protects me" and look at things from a utilitarian mindset- CAUSE THEY DO - even if your sunday school teaches otherwise.
Chew on it.
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::) What is your next mail order degree? I vote for something related to economics or law.
It just burns you up that I"m en educated man.
Monster insecurity on your part.
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I think you all underestimate the general populace and their lack of information. People do not talk about 9/11 in terms of conspiracy on a regular basis, or at all from those I have encountered, especially on the east coast. Most people just remember it as a terrible disaster. You take the fact that a select few question 9/11 and extrapolate to the entire country but that just doesn't fit. If you want to talk about his qualifications then I think we would have a better discussion.
I agree, I don't think the conspiracy will be anything other than a blip on the radar for him if even that.
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It just burns you up that I"m en educated man.
Monster insecurity on your part.
Bwahahahahaha! Here is a quiz, which one of us talks about his alleged college degrees everyday?** Bwahahahahaha!!!
**That would be you.
Dude, if you're going to get a mail order degree, stand up and be proud already. There shouldn't be any shame in your game. Plenty of people get them. Shame on you for dissing your alma mater just because its residence address is a post office box.
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LOL. You're both wrong. Only goes to prove that neither one of you can get your facts straight. But when in doubt, just make them up, right? :D
Maybe the part of Hawaii you're in, however, I have people in my organization in Hawaii, and they've always been 6 hours behind the Eastern time Zone.
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Oh stop woman. So you really meant to say "10" instead of "20" and you didn't really mean to say Hillary beat Giuliani, you meant say he dropped out because he knew he would lose. Sure. ::)
GAWD you're an annoying idiot! How old are you... really?
*PLONK*
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Bwahahahahaha! Here is a quiz, which one of us talks about his alleged college degrees everyday?** Bwahahahahaha!!!
**That would be you.
Dude, if you're going to get a mail order degree, stand up and be proud already. There shouldn't be any shame in your game. Plenty of people get them. Shame on you for dissing your alma mater just because its residence address is a post office box.
yes, you clearly have adademic envy.
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Maybe the part of Hawaii you're in, however, I have people in my organization in Hawaii, and they've always been 6 hours behind the Eastern time Zone.
Buzzzzz! LOL. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong? :D
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GAWD you're an annoying idiot! How old are you... really?
*PLONK*
Not nearly as old as you!
Dang, how many softballs can you throw? ;D
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And become narrow minded for the other side. His posts prove that. His dismissal of evidence proves that.
The evidence you and many others point to has too many holes in it. How can he not dismiss it?
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The evidence you and many others point to has too many holes in it. How can he not dismiss it?
And his does not? If you don't believe that then I have some beach front property in AZ I'd like to sell you at a good price. I present concrete fact (and this does not pertain to WTC7) and he just openly dismisses it as propoganda but his evidence is solid. No good lady.
GAWD you're an annoying idiot! How old are you... really?
You discriminate on age so much it astounds me.
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And his does not? If you don't believe that then I have some beach front property in AZ I'd like to sell you at a good price.
I might be interested too. When the big one hits, and Cali falls into the ocean, and global warming causes the ocean levels to rise, ...we might just see some beachfront property there. :P
I present concrete fact (and this does not pertain to WTC7) and he just openly dismisses it as propoganda but his evidence is solid. No good lady.
Maybe I missed it, ...but I haven't seen much from you in the way of concrete fact.
You discriminate on age so much it astounds me.
Actually I don't, ...but I can see where many of my comments to you have come across that way.
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I might be interested too. When the big one hits, and Cali falls into the ocean, and global warming causes the ocean levels to rise, ...we might just see some beachfront property there. :P
Maybe I missed it, ...but I haven't seen much from you in the way of concrete fact.
Actually I don't, ...but I can see where many of my comments to you have come across that way.
Then go back and read and see him dismiss everything as lies. Kinda hard to believe someone as "open minded" as Rob dismisses things so easily because he reads a website or two and has a conspiracy book. Great. Was WTC bombing in 93 a conspiracy too? Maybe we should have started the war sooner because you know it's all a conspiracy. ::)
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Then go back and read and see him dismiss everything as lies. Kinda hard to believe someone as "open minded" as Rob dismisses things so easily because he reads a website or two and has a conspiracy book. Great. Was WTC bombing in 93 a conspiracy too? Maybe we should have started the war sooner because you know it's all a conspiracy. ::)
Rob has made too many posts for me to care to wander through them to pick out what you specifically refer to
Are you suuuuuure you want to get into WTC 93 with Rob? Are you really, really surrrre ya wanna do that? :P
I challenge you to dismantle his arguments about WTC 93.
{pssst} just returning the favour Rob when you challenged everyone on Get big to attack my arguments. :P
Cappy, ...just remember... KY is your friend.
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/junioroz/thumbs/foreplay-in-a-tube.jpg)
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Then go back and read and see him dismiss everything as lies. Kinda hard to believe someone as "open minded" as Rob dismisses things so easily because he reads a website or two and has a conspiracy book. Great. Was WTC bombing in 93 a conspiracy too? Maybe we should have started the war sooner because you know it's all a conspiracy. ::)
cap,
THE NEW YORK TIMES
* * * * *
Thursday October 28, 1993 Page A1
"Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart
Bomb Used in Trade Center Blast"
By Ralph Blumenthal
Law-enforcement officials were told that terrorists were building a bomb that was eventually used to blow up the World Trade Center, and they planned to thwart the plotters by secretly substituting harmless powder for the explosives, an informer said after the blast.
The informer was to have helped the plotters build the bomb and supply the fake powder, but the plan was called off by an F.B.I. supervisor who had other ideas about how the informer, Emad Salem, should be used, the informer said.
The account, which is given in the transcript of hundreds of hours of tape recordings that Mr. Salem secretly made of his talks with law-enforcement agents, portrays the authorities as being in a far better position than previously known to foil the February 26th bombing of New York City's tallest towers.
The explosion left six people dead, more than a thousand people injured, and damages in excess of half-a-billion dollars. Four men are now on trial in Manhattan Federal Court [on charges of involvement] in that attack.
Mr. Salem, a 43-year-old former Egyptian Army officer, was used by the Government [of the United States] to penetrate a circle of Muslim extremists who are now charged in two bombing cases: the World Trade Center attack, and a foiled plot to destroy the United Nations, the Hudson River tunnels, and other New York City landmarks. He is the crucial witness in the second bombing case, but his work for the Government was erratic, and for months before the World Trade Center blast, he was feuding with the F.B.I.
Supervisor `Messed It Up'
After the bombing, he resumed his undercover work. In an undated transcript of a conversation from that period, Mr. Salem recounts a talk he had had earlier with an agent about an unnamed F.B.I. supervisor who, he said, "came and messed it up."
"He requested to meet me in the hotel," Mr. Salem says of the supervisor.
"He requested to make me to testify, and if he didn't push for that, we'll be going building the bomb with a phony powder, and grabbing the people who was involved in it. But since you, we didn't do that."
The transcript quotes Mr. Salem as saying that he wanted to complain to F.B.I. Headquarters in Washington about the Bureau's failure to stop the bombing, but was dissuaded by an agent identified as John Anticev.
Mr. Salem said Mr. Anticev had told him,
"He said, I don't think that the New York people would like the things out of the New York Office to go to Washington, D.C."
Another agent, identified as Nancy Floyd, does not dispute Mr. Salem's account, but rather, appears to agree with it, saying of the `New York people':
"Well, of course not, because they don't want to get their butts chewed."
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Rob has made too many posts for me to care to wander through them to pick out what you specifically refer to
Are you suuuuuure you want to get into WTC 93 with Rob? Are you really, really surrrre ya wanna do that? :P
I challenge you to dismantle his arguments about WTC 93.
{pssst} just returning the favour Rob when you challenged everyone on Get big to attack my arguments. :P
Cappy, ...just remember... KY is your friend.
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i155/junioroz/thumbs/foreplay-in-a-tube.jpg)
Why don't you swallow some Draino and do us all a favor. Bring on the conspiracy theories. The LIBERAL DUO at it's finest. ;D
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Why don't you swallow some Draino and do us all a favor. Bring on the conspiracy theories. The LIBERAL DUO at it's finest. ;D
I'm a republican. And way more of a repulican than you. Please research your party's ideals. Bush, and you have abandoned them. You're no longer worthy of debate.
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cap,
THE NEW YORK TIMES
* * * * *
Thursday October 28, 1993 Page A1
"Tapes Depict Proposal to Thwart
Bomb Used in Trade Center Blast"
By Ralph Blumenthal
Law-enforcement officials were told that terrorists were building a bomb that was eventually used to blow up the World Trade Center, and they planned to thwart the plotters by secretly substituting harmless powder for the explosives, an informer said after the blast.
The informer was to have helped the plotters build the bomb and supply the fake powder, but the plan was called off by an F.B.I. supervisor who had other ideas about how the informer, Emad Salem, should be used, the informer said.
The account, which is given in the transcript of hundreds of hours of tape recordings that Mr. Salem secretly made of his talks with law-enforcement agents, portrays the authorities as being in a far better position than previously known to foil the February 26th bombing of New York City's tallest towers.
The explosion left six people dead, more than a thousand people injured, and damages in excess of half-a-billion dollars. Four men are now on trial in Manhattan Federal Court [on charges of involvement] in that attack.
Mr. Salem, a 43-year-old former Egyptian Army officer, was used by the Government [of the United States] to penetrate a circle of Muslim extremists who are now charged in two bombing cases: the World Trade Center attack, and a foiled plot to destroy the United Nations, the Hudson River tunnels, and other New York City landmarks. He is the crucial witness in the second bombing case, but his work for the Government was erratic, and for months before the World Trade Center blast, he was feuding with the F.B.I.
Supervisor `Messed It Up'
After the bombing, he resumed his undercover work. In an undated transcript of a conversation from that period, Mr. Salem recounts a talk he had had earlier with an agent about an unnamed F.B.I. supervisor who, he said, "came and messed it up."
"He requested to meet me in the hotel," Mr. Salem says of the supervisor.
"He requested to make me to testify, and if he didn't push for that, we'll be going building the bomb with a phony powder, and grabbing the people who was involved in it. But since you, we didn't do that."
The transcript quotes Mr. Salem as saying that he wanted to complain to F.B.I. Headquarters in Washington about the Bureau's failure to stop the bombing, but was dissuaded by an agent identified as John Anticev.
Mr. Salem said Mr. Anticev had told him,
"He said, I don't think that the New York people would like the things out of the New York Office to go to Washington, D.C."
Another agent, identified as Nancy Floyd, does not dispute Mr. Salem's account, but rather, appears to agree with it, saying of the `New York people':
"Well, of course not, because they don't want to get their butts chewed."
In the World Trade Center bombing (February 26, 1993) a car bomb was detonated by Arab Islamist terrorists in the underground parking garage below Tower One of the World Trade Center in New York City. The 1,500-lb (680Kg) urea nitrate-fuel oil device killed six and injured 1,042 people. It was intended to devastate the foundation of the North Tower, causing it to collapse onto its twin.
The attack was planned by a group of conspirators including Ramzi Yousef, Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman, El Sayyid Nosair, Mahmud Abouhalima, Mohammad Salameh, Nidal Ayyad, Ahmad Ajaj, and Abdul Rahman Yasin. They received financing from al-Qaeda member Khaled Shaikh Mohammed, Yousef's uncle.
I'm a republican. And way more of a repulican than you. Please research your party's ideals. Bush, and you have abandoned them. You're no longer worthy of debate.
240: LIBERAL, DEMOCRAT, SUPPORTS CLINTON OVER BUSHX2 AND REAGAN. Your posts have backed my statements. You are no Republican. You stir up shit for fun and that is fine but don't lie pal. Get a life. You don't debate. To debate you have to counter someone's posts which you never do. Never. Keep posting your bullshit and the rest of us can laugh at how ridiculous you sound. You don't talk about it on public because people would laugh in your liberal face. I was raised Repub conservative and will die that way. That is true. I'm better off that way.
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Why don't you swallow some Draino and do us all a favor. Bring on the conspiracy theories. The LIBERAL DUO at it's finest. ;D
Well at least this didn't come in through PM
I'm telling ya Cap, a stagnant arctic airmass caused by Global warming will slow the meltdown process.
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/Baby%20with%20pacifier.gif)
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Yousef was assisted by Iraqi bomb maker Abdul Rahman Yasin [1] . Yasin's complex 1310 lb (600 kg) bomb was made of urea pellets, nitroglycerin, sulfuric acid, aluminum azide, magnesium azide, and bottled hydrogen. He added sodium cyanide to the mix as the vapors could go through the ventilation shafts and elevators of the towers.
The Ryder van used in the bombing had 295 ft³ (8.3 m³) of space, which would hold up to a ton (907 kg) of explosives. However, the van was not filled to capacity. Yousef used four 20 ft (6 m) long fuses, all covered in surgical tubing. Yasin calculated that the fuse would trigger the bomb in twelve minutes after he had used a cigarette lighter to light the fuse.
Yousef wanted the smoke to remain in the tower, therefore catching the public eye by smothering people inside, killing them slowly. He anticipated Tower One collapsing onto Tower Two after the blast. The materials to build the bomb cost approximately US$129
The bomb exploded in the underground garage at 12:18 P.M., generating a pressure estimated over one GPa and opening a 30-meter-wide hole through four sublevels of concrete. The detonation velocity of this bomb was about 15,000 ft/s (4.5 km/s). The cyanide gas generated is assumed to have burned in the explosion.
Six people were killed. At least 1,040 others were injured. However, the towers were not destroyed as Yousef intended. However, the WTC’s architect would later tell jurors that if the van had been left closer to the poured concrete foundations, they would have succeeded. The tower would have fallen.[2] Yousef escaped to Pakistan several hours later.
The bomb cut off the center's main electrical power line and cut off telephone service for much of lower Manhattan. The bomb caused smoke to rise up to the 93rd floor of both towers, and cut off the towers' four stairwells and emergency lighting system. Also as a result of the loss of electricity most of New York City's radio and television stations lost their over-the-air broadcast signal for almost a week, with television stations only being able to broadcast via cable and satellite via a microwave hookup between the stations and three of the New York area's largest cable companies, Cablevision, Comcast, and Time Warner Cable.
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I was raised Repub conservative and will die that way. That is true. I'm better off that way.
Nope, ...no narrow-minded myopia here. Nothing but clear concise and well reasoned articulation of the issues ;D
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240: LIBERAL, DEMOCRAT, SUPPORTS CLINTON OVER BUSHX2 AND REAGAN. Your posts have backed my statements. You are no Republican. You stir up shit for fun and that is fine but don't lie pal. Get a life. You don't debate. To debate you have to counter someone's posts which you never do. Never. Keep posting your bullshit and the rest of us can laugh at how ridiculous you sound. You don't talk about it on public because people would laugh in your liberal face. I was raised Repub conservative and will die that way. That is true. I'm better off that way.
Actually, he says he is a libertarian, but I agree he is a liberal.
December 16, 2006, 10:59:08 PM » Quote by 240:
I'm a libertarian.
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Nope, ...no narrow-minded myopia here. Nothing but clear concise and well reasoned articulation of the issues ;D
Keep telling yourself that. If so, why post the KY pictures and other nonsensical stuff?
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In his letters Yousef admitted that the World Trade Center bombing was an act of terrorism, but that this was justified because 'the terrorism that Israel practices (which America supports) must be faced with a similar one.'