Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Tapeworm on February 13, 2007, 06:25:55 AM
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Chick, Arnold gave his views on what the sport needs - an Olympian with an engaging personality, educating kids on nutrition and the benefits of exercise. He also mentioned the benefits to your confidence from working out and achieving one's goal of a more muscular physique.
Later, you gave your views on how things need to be made dramatic to increase the sport's popularity. Where did this idea of your's to have good guys and bad guys come from? Fans need someone to cheer and someone to boo? You really feel that's the best way to promote bodybuilding?
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Bodybuilding is too much of a steriod freak show for the the mainstream to take seriously. If the physiques regressed back to the 70's type maybe bodybuilding would have a better following.
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Bodybuilding is too much of a steriod freak show for the the mainstream to take seriously. If the physiques regressed back to the 70's type maybe bodybuilding would have a better following.
Those physiques needed steroids also. As long as bb's use teh juice, it will be a fringe sport. Maybe not ten years ago, but with the recent rash of steroid scandals, and the publics view of them, it would never happen.
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Chick, Arnold gave his views on what the sport needs - an Olympian with an engaging personality, educating kids on nutrition and the benefits of exercise. He also mentioned the benefits to your confidence from working out and achieving one's goal of a more muscular physique.
Later, you gave your views on how things need to be made dramatic to increase the sport's popularity. Where did this idea of your's to have good guys and bad guys come from? Fans need someone to cheer and someone to boo? You really feel that's the best way to promote bodybuilding?
THE BAD GUY THING DOSENT WORK IFBB DOSENT LIKE THAT :) I KNOW
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THE BAD GUY THING DOSENT WORK IFBB DOSENT LIKE THAT :) I KNOW
lol
i think he means guys that are so badass that they have FLEX photoshoots training in sunglasses and jean shorts
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THE IFBB KILLED IT THEY HAVE NO ONE ELSE TO BLAME
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Chick, Arnold gave his views on what the sport needs - an Olympian with an engaging personality, educating kids on nutrition and the benefits of exercise.
"Engaging personality" is a code word for "salesman".
Arnold is a natural-born salesman - who transitioned effortlessly between tirelessly hawking his muscles, his movies, and finally his political ambitions.
I don't like salesmen very much. Maybe bodybuilding could use one. But I kind of like things the way they are.
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The Arnold interview was good, but the supp flogging is relentless over there. Seems to me they realized that their ideal target market was extremely gullible people interested in muscle. Eureka! Pro wrestling fans! And there's lots of 'em.
"Let's make bodybuilding like pro wrestling - we'll make tons of money!"
I'm sure you will, and everyone needs to get paid, but that bs would just be raping the sport. Straight up. I couldn't believe my ears. Good guys and bad guys. ::)
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"Let's make bodybuilding like pro wrestling - we'll make tons of money!"
Ask Vince McMahon how well that worked out for him. ;D
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"Engaging personality" is a code word for "salesman".
Arnold is a natural-born salesman - who transitioned effortlessly between tirelessly hawking his muscles, his movies, and finally his political ambitions.
I don't like salesmen very much. Maybe bodybuilding could use one. But I kind of like things the way they are.
I agree ribo. Arnold has done very well for Arnold, but I was pleased to hear him use words like "nutrition" and "work out" in between the supp ads. I think he's done some good for bodybuilding and general fitness while getting rich.
Chick's nonsense at the end really roused my ire though.
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Mr. Olympia 1971 - [mischievous twinkle in eyes] "Iz everybahdy ready?! I'm going to pump you up! Ha ha ha!"
Mr. Olympia 2006 - [zombie stare] "I eat a lot of orange roughy from Costco. I like high volume training for back thickness. MuscleTech products help my supplementation..."
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Mr. Olympia 1971 - [mischievous twinkle in eyes] "Iz everybahdy ready?! I'm going to pump you up! Ha ha ha!"
Mr. Olympia 2006 - [zombie stare] "I ate a lot of orange roughy from Costco during my bulking phase. High volume training for back thickness really helped..."
Dude. Do you, or do you not, object to Bob's idea to turn bodybuilding into a pro-wrestling style circus? Are you saying that bodybuilding is always changing, and it's not always for the best?
I think it's just a quick way to separate young men from their money. It also completely misses the point of bodybuilding which is to look good, feel good, and enjoy a better quality and length of life.
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Dude. Do you, or do you not, object to Bob's idea to turn bodybuilding into a pro-wrestling style circus? Are you saying that bodybuilding is always changing, and it's not always for the best?
I think it's just a quick way to separate young men from their money. It also completely misses the point of bodybuilding which is to look good, feel good, and enjoy a better quality and length of life.
Did you actually listen to the show?
If you did, go back and listen again, as that is the complete OPPOSITE of what I said...
If you still dont get it...Then read my article in my new column in Flex magazine called Bobservations, where you can read it word for word.
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THE BAD GUY THING DOSENT WORK IFBB DOSENT LIKE THAT :) I KNOW
Actually Lee...you are a perfect example of why it does. Differences aside, there is no denying you are on of the most popular Pro's out there...people like you or dislike you because of your personality and attitude...either way, they HAVE an opinion.
It's indifference that's killing the sport....if people don't care either way, they don't watch or have any interest whatsoever....
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THE BAD GUY THING DOSENT WORK IFBB DOSENT LIKE THAT :) I KNOW
You are about as much a rebel as Justin Timberlake ::)
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I didn't listen in live but I downloaded the show. As I remember, you said something like - we don't need costumes like in pro wrestling, but we need good guys and bad guys so people have someone to cheer and someone to hate. You usually seem pretty level headed, so I was surprised by what I thought you said. I'll listen to the show again though Bob.
No one is indifferent when it comes to their health or their looks, so why not put foreward bodybuilding as the method which delivers? Remind people of the benefits of good nutrition and good fitness habits, and help them find a hero to look up to. That seemed to be what Arnold was suggesting.
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we need good guys and bad guys so people have someone to cheer and someone to hate.
The bodybuilders' own personalities have never failed to provide us with that. (i.e. Ruhl, Cutler=cheer, Ray, Kamali=hate) No scriptwriting needed.
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Were in a different day and age...the old "take your vatamins, say your prayers...." days are over...even Hogan knew that he had to re-invent himself at a certain point to sustain interest.
Personalities sll...contests don't. Knowing the man behind the physique is what will be appealing, being able to identify with someone who has a similiar personality to your own...or rooting for the underdog, etc...
Poker is the latest to figure this out....can you imagine trying to pitch the idea of televising poker tournaments a few years ago? And people think Golf is boring to watch...!
Next thing you know, they're getting huge ratings....WHY? Because someone was smart enough to start to feature the personalities of the players...the Unibomber, Jesus Ferguson, the Mouth, Fossilman...these arent th latest batch of WWE wrestlers...they're poker players. All of a sudden, you find yourself interested because you want to see the Mouth get his ass beaten because you cant stnd him...
A few years ago, King Kamali and craig Titus nearly brought the house down competing at the Astralia Pro...were they in contention for the title? NO...they were battling for 4th and 5th...but because they had such a rivalry, because people had such hate for King, or Craig, or both....or were such fans of either-or....the place was on it's feet as they went toe to toe in an animated, emotion filled duel.
It's a simple formula....
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I agree with Chick AND Arnold.
BBing needs a star and an underdog. Arnold was the star when he was Mr. Olympia. He made the rounds in the media and shaped the sport for (as we know) years to come. It also needs underdogs that WANT it so bad they can taste it. In the interviews you have guys saying "well, it'd be great to win, but you know, what happens happens." That kind of indecisiveness is what makes them cool guys, but it's nothing exciting.
Chris Cook was a shining example of an underdog. A young gun who claimed he would be pro by 31 years of age. He had the hype, the look and the voice. Could of done wonders. For the champ, you need to display him as THE guy to beat. Not cocky, just confident. Have him on FLEX saying something outrageous to build hype. The possibilities are pretty cool if you can get guys like Jay and others to play along. May be like WWE, but it could just be what BBing needs right now.
Arnold is the man and I absolutely agree with him on the fact that we need people to TALK and sell themselves as interesting people so the public can get a better view of the sport. After all, that's what Arnold did. :)
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Joe weider won't live long enough to see Pro bodybuilding going mainstream, if ever. Almost anything you called sports these days are on TV. I doubt Bodybuilding will ever see serious airtime
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The explotion of poker has nothing to do with personalities. There have been huge personalities in the game for its entire existence. The popularity comes from the ability of the average Joe, to win a lot of money and be very good at something.
People love to gambe, and people love to be good at something. Poker is something ANYONE has a chance at being the best at. You dont need athletic ability to be a pro poker player. Look at Doyle Bronson. He was a big personality long before the game went mainstream. Same deal with johnnie chan. He was in that Matt Damon flick.
The biggest factor in the increased popularity of poker is online poker. Suddenly, you had waaay more people actually playing the game. These online players will watch poker on tv to see how the pros play.
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THE BAD GUY THING DOSENT WORK IFBB DOSENT LIKE THAT :) I KNOW
Dear Lee,
It's DOESN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not 'dosent'..
Hope this helps!
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The biggest factor in the increased popularity of poker is online poker. Suddenly, you had waaay more people actually playing the game. These online players will watch poker on tv to see how the pros play.
Bullshit...put a camera on a tripod and just film the game being played, and watch the ratings go into the shitter in record time.
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Were in a different day and age...the old "take your vatamins, say your prayers...." days are over...even Hogan knew that he had to re-invent himself at a certain point to sustain interest.
Personalities sll...contests don't. Knowing the man behind the physique is what will be appealing, being able to identify with someone who has a similiar personality to your own...or rooting for the underdog, etc...
Poker is the latest to figure this out....can you imagine trying to pitch the idea of televising poker tournaments a few years ago? And people think Golf is boring to watch...!
Next thing you know, they're getting huge ratings....WHY? Because someone was smart enough to start to feature the personalities of the players...the Unibomber, Jesus Ferguson, the Mouth, Fossilman...these arent th latest batch of WWE wrestlers...they're poker players. All of a sudden, you find yourself interested because you want to see the Mouth get his ass beaten because you cant stnd him...
A few years ago, King Kamali and craig Titus nearly brought the house down competing at the Astralia Pro...were they in contention for the title? NO...they were battling for 4th and 5th...but because they had such a rivalry, because people had such hate for King, or Craig, or both....or were such fans of either-or....the place was on it's feet as they went toe to toe in an animated, emotion filled duel.
It's a simple formula....
Only way bb could be legit.
Clean up the drugs. Yep, guys are going to shrink. But, that is what is going to have to happen if you want to be credible. If not serious sports critics will just bash the shit out of the "sport". not to mention, how are you going to sell the sport to young kids if you have to risk your life to partake in it?
Clean up the gay crap. Sorry, but g4p and gay porn vids are not helping the cause. Ifbb guys should not partake in them.
Clean up the polotics, nuff said.
Weight classes, nuff said
Crowd should have a say in who wins
Get some non corrupt judges
Get bb's back into the original bb ideal.
NO MORE FUCKING HE SHES. That shit is sick! Bring back Mclish type physiques. The current he she beasts just give bb a bad name.
Liven up the show. Not with props, with more head to head comparisons. No slow ass boring music either. Let everyone compare, get the crowd into this part.
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Dear Lee,
It's DOESN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Not 'dosent'..
Hope this helps!
who gives a shit?
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Bodybuilding popularity is directly relate to its atheles. The atheles now in general do their best to intimidate the averege fan. The NBA,NFL....make sure the atheles relate with the fans and are approachable. Bob Chic has been so sucessuful because no only he has a world class physique, but he has the ability to interact in a positive way with fans and media. The is absolute essesial to any sport. The NBA was saved by the competion of Bird and Magic and their ability to relate to fans and media.....no the same can be said by today atheles in bodybuilding.
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THE BAD GUY THING DOSENT WORK IFBB DOSENT LIKE THAT :) I KNOW
You could make a grand come back like Hulk Hogan did Lee...Restore bodybuilding back to the way it should be and fight for the rights of the lower ranked pro's......... ;)
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Bullshit...put a camera on a tripod and just film the game being played, and watch the ratings go into the shitter in record time.
One of the biggest stories ever in Poker was Chris Moneymaker's winning the WSOP (World Series of Poker). Chris was an online player who had never played in a live tournament. Chris has the personality of a tree stump.
Before online poker, a guy like Chris woudn't have even been in the WSOP. Now, there are several thousand Chris's looking to make that life changing big score. That's why the prize money is so huge: The winner this year got 12 Million (no typo). The drama of that type of money being up for grabs creates is what keeps people tuned in.
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One of the biggest stories ever in Poker was Chris Moneymaker's winning the WSOP (World Series of Poker). Chris was an online player who had never played in a live tournament. Chris has the personality of a tree stump.
Before online poker, a guy like Chris woudn't have even been in the WSOP. Now, there are several thousand Chris's looking to make that life changing big score. That's why the prize money is so huge: The winner this year got 12 Million (no typo). The drama of that type of money being up for grabs creates is what keeps people tuned in.
I'm not disputing your assessment of how much online poker has contributed...I agree.
The "story" behind Moneymaker...was the sell. That this "online" player found his way into the finals of the WSOP...the ultimate underdog...etc.
THAT's what I'm talking about...
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This seems as good a time as any to remind people that they need to be careful what they wish for...
In every sport that has hit the money-gusher of TV revenues [i.e. baseball, football, European soccer] you'll find people bemoaning how commercialized and soulless the game has become in comparison to the good old days.
If in some alternate Bizarro universe bodybuilding is as big as the NBA, I guarantee you that its fans are bitching about how expensive tickets are and what greedy dickheads the competitors are.
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Chick,
I see what you're saying here, but I think the question is: WHO will tell the stories? Particularly on the PPV and broadcasts whenever they are available?
I think of the Olympics. Some of the sports have no interest to anyone, but they (in particular - NBC) does such a great job of storytelling, that you're compelled to watch. Many of the athletes they cover don't even speak english, but they can make you route for that athlete over the American sometimes.
So WHO will step up and tell the story? Some production company needs to step up. From what I saw from Shawn's Fit over 40 DVD, I think the Chapman group is on the right track, but the big boys need to step up.
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the question is: WHO will tell the stories?
Yeah, they need someone to narrate the kind of "Up Close and Personal" segments they always do to give you a sense of who the athlete is before they compete in their Olympic event.
So picture Bob Solomon doing the voice-over...
"But in 2004, Dennis's dreams of Olympia glory began to look doubtful when he was arrested in Thailand for the possession of hundreds of vials of anabolic steroids..."
"With his customary never-say-die spirit, Jay refused to accept the results of the diuretics test - threatening to sue the IFBB over a contract technicality..."
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This is like the 3rd thread in a row that i've complete agreed with Chick on....what the hell. ;D
This is why guys are starting to release more than training videos. Lee priests reality dvd's and now Shawn Ray's over 40 fat-loss reality show are going to do great things for promoting bodybuilding.
P.S. - yes bob, the fitshow was/is great.
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Bob, I've got no problem with some narrative that gives the stories behind the competitors. My objection is to introducing "bad guys" for people to cheer against. What if the "good guy" comes in flat, or the "bad guy" is the better man on stage? Does he still get to win? If he wins too many, will he "turn good"? What a load of nonsense that would be.
So history behind the competitors - fine. Inspirational stories - great. Scripted good guys and bad guys - bad idea.
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What if the "good guy" comes in flat
If he's Mr. Olympia, they give it to him again.
Hope this helps.
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Chick,
I see what you're saying here, but I think the question is: WHO will tell the stories? Particularly on the PPV and broadcasts whenever they are available?
I think of the Olympics. Some of the sports have no interest to anyone, but they (in particular - NBC) does such a great job of storytelling, that you're compelled to watch. Many of the athletes they cover don't even speak english, but they can make you route for that athlete over the American sometimes.
So WHO will step up and tell the story? Some production company needs to step up. From what I saw from Shawn's Fit over 40 DVD, I think the Chapman group is on the right track, but the big boys need to step up.
Hmmmmmmmm.......I wonder who could be the guy to tell the stories?? ;D
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Hmmmmmmmm.......I wonder who could be the guy to tell the stories?? ;D
Nothing personal, but that would seem more like Dan's gig.
You're more like the guy in the red blazer getting statements from the competitors backstage.
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Bob, I've got no problem with some narrative that gives the stories behind the competitors. My objection is to introducing "bad guys" for people to cheer against. What if the "good guy" comes in flat, or the "bad guy" is the better man on stage? Does he still get to win? If he wins too many, will he "turn good"? What a load of nonsense that would be.
So history behind the competitors - fine. Inspirational stories - great. Scripted good guys and bad guys - bad idea.
If the good guy comes in flat..he loses. If the bad guy is better..he wins. whatever happens, happens.
I'm not talking about "Scripting" good guys and bad guys...I'm sure the BB fans will dictate for themselves who they like and who they would like to lose based on those personalities we put out there....
Years ago when Ronnie first won the Olympia...he was a HUGE fan favorite...a "good guy" if you will. Over the years that changed when he was winning number 5,6,7...people began to hate the fact he was still winning, belly issues, etc. Then the sentiment seemed to change again last year as he was going to be challenging for the all time record....
After Jay beats him, we see a shift again that he's a "bad guy"..sore loser, playing the race card, etc. etc....
We don't need to script, just need to bring out the personalities and attitudes to reflect the athlete..let the fans sort 'em out!
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If the good guy comes in flat..he loses. If the bad guy is better..he wins. whatever happens, happens.
I'm not talking about "Scripting" good guys and bad guys...I'm sure the BB fans will dictate for themselves who they like and who they would like to lose based on those personalities we put out there....
Years ago when Ronnie first won the Olympia...he was a HUGE fan favorite...a "good guy" if you will. Over the years that changed when he was winning number 5,6,7...people began to hate the fact he was still winning, belly issues, etc. Then the sentiment seemed to change again last year as he was going to be challenging for the all time record....
After Jay beats him, we see a shift again that he's a "bad guy"..sore loser, playing the race card, etc. etc....
We don't need to script, just need to bring out the personalities and attitudes to reflect the athlete..let the fans sort 'em out!
well said.. let the public opinion decide.
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If the good guy comes in flat..he loses. If the bad guy is better..he wins. whatever happens, happens.
I'm not talking about "Scripting" good guys and bad guys...I'm sure the BB fans will dictate for themselves who they like and who they would like to lose based on those personalities we put out there....
Years ago when Ronnie first won the Olympia...he was a HUGE fan favorite...a "good guy" if you will. Over the years that changed when he was winning number 5,6,7...people began to hate the fact he was still winning, belly issues, etc. Then the sentiment seemed to change again last year as he was going to be challenging for the all time record....
After Jay beats him, we see a shift again that he's a "bad guy"..sore loser, playing the race card, etc. etc....
We don't need to script, just need to bring out the personalities and attitudes to reflect the athlete..let the fans sort 'em out!
Wasn't this the concept behind the WBF?
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Similiar...but they lost it with the silly costumes and hokey characters they created for each athlete.
Their guys were trying to portray a character, instead of just being themselves...there's a fine line which cant be crossed or you lose your core fan base.
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How to save bodybuilding:
Find a white Lee Haney. He has to be straight too. No offense to all the bleeding heart liberals out there, but that's how the world works. :'(
PS - Glenn Beck owns all bleeding heart liberals.
I am here.
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hey chick what have you done to make pro BB better ?
being a lacky for the IFBB does not help anyone but you and the Evil Empire !
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hey chick what have you done to make pro BB better ?
being a lacky for the IFBB does not help anyone but you and the Evil Empire !
Why do you believe I'm a lackey for the IFBB?
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THE BAD GUY THING DOSENT WORK IFBB DOSENT LIKE THAT :) I KNOW
yeah your about as bad as FONZY...And like Fonzy you both jumped the shark and fuked yourself...Atleast Fonzy has Adam Sandler to bail him out and give him parts...Who is Lee's Adam Sandler???
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yeah your about as bad as FONZY...And like Fonzy you both jumped the shark and fuked yourself...Atleast Fonzy has Adam Sandler to bail him out and give him parts...Who is Lee's Adam Sandler???
Henry Winkler is one of the greatest men who ever lived. His role as The Fonz has immortalized him. He also produced McGyver. On top of all that, the dude is the epitome of shredded mass.
Chick-
I still feel that BB would be better served by retaining regaining some dignity. The antics of some goofballs will get enough attention without promoters planning to push "colorful personalities." Publicizing the physical and psychological benefits of following a healthy bodybuilding lifestyle will gain the sport so much more respect with the public than adding more "drama" to mix. If it's the bottom line you're after: More respect from the public = a more popular sport = a wider fan base = more supp sales. In any case, thanks for taking the time to reply in this thread.
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how can you expect 260+ to be engaging??? i need to bring on stage a package they didnt have to bring on stage in the 70s so as much as i like arnold its just diff game,,,try to hold 300lb on your frame at 5'8-5'10 and you will see how you become slow irritated and quite often tired kinda person,,yes even at 6% bf,,,infact even more tired and weak at low bodyfat%
ray tried to do this persona star thing priest did too,,didnt work for them the ifbb didnt like it,,kamali tried and failed because he didnt have the physiqe to back up the act,,none of them hold size that ifbb wants as mr o due to height or in kamali case problem in the structure,,
the more mass you carry the less carizma you present because the more drugged you are and the more your liver and kidnys need the rest,,,so no time for no carizma as long as the ifbb want beasts on stage,,we need sleep!! ;)
by the way dexter should be mr o,,every single one knows it,,then victor should take it from him,,but as i said before the ifbb wants beasts as mr o,,,it just look better on a magazine
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Henry Winkler is one of the greatest men who ever lived. His role as The Fonz has immortalized him. He also produced McGyver. On top of all that, the dude is the epitome of shredded mass.
Chick-
I still feel that BB would be better served by retaining regaining some dignity. The antics of some goofballs will get enough attention without promoters planning to push "colorful personalities." Publicizing the physical and psychological benefits of following a healthy bodybuilding lifestyle will gain the sport so much more respect with the public than adding more "drama" to mix. If it's the bottom line you're after: More respect from the public = a more popular sport = a wider fan base = more supp sales. In any case, thanks for taking the time to reply in this thread.
i was talking about Fonzy the actor(henry)...Not the producer/director ect...fact of the matter is Fonzy is not cool and neither is Lee Priest...
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breaking news: this thread kinda sucks. i expected more from all of you. work on this.
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Monster contribution. You may now return to the peanut gallery.
How's this: Do you want women to say, "You're into bodybuilding? What are you, still going through puberty?'
or
"You're into bodybuilding? Cool! Tell me all about it while I suck you off."
How the sport gets presented to the public will determine how much respect it gets.
However, since I am clearly waging a crusade-of-one in a sea of teenage wrestlemania fans here, I'll let this thing die now.
Have a nice day.