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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: BRUCE on February 19, 2007, 08:03:15 PM
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I've recently added the following story to my new weblog:
After being rocked by terror attacks this week, it's now been revealed that India has somewhat of a black market for abortions, with some 400 baby bones found after they were terminated, buried and subsequently unearthed. See now this genocide that has ended the lives of an estimated 10 million (given, this is a Lancet figure) Indian babies before they even started.
Police were investigating a hospital's involvement in illegal female feticide after 437 baby bones were dug up close by the complex, a state government said.
Police began unearthing the bones on Saturday from Christian Medical Hospital, in central Madhya Pradesh state, after a tip-off that medical staff were carrying out illegal abortions.
"Initial reports indicate feticide or infanticide," said state health minister Ajay Vishnoi.
'Feticide'? That's an interesting spin on what I would call murder. Note also the amazing effect this swathe of baby killing has had on the Punjab region.
Punjab has the worst gender ratio in India, with 798 girls for every thousand boys under the age of six.
A study by The Lancet, a British medical journal, said last year that India may have lost 10 million unborn girls in the past 20 years. Indian experts put the figure at about five million.
Incredible, so we have 5 to 10 million dead children? That puts this in the region of deaths from the Holocaust. But where are the protests, the outrage? The astonishing number of abortions in the last 20 years in India should put this as one of the greatest Human Rights violations of our time - particulary when you consider why this is occuring.
Hundreds of thousands of unborn girls are killed each year in India, where families prize sons who are seen as breadwinners and required to light their parents' funeral pyres, according to Hindu practice.
Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Death_toll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Death_toll)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070219/wl_sthasia_afp/healthindiacrime (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070219/wl_sthasia_afp/healthindiacrime)
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I read a similar story wherein they explained the bone fragments could have been accounted for as a result of improperly disposed bodies after miscarriages, stillbirths, and infant mortality.
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Hundreds of thousands of unborn girls are killed each year in India, where families prize sons who are seen as breadwinners and required to light their parents' funeral pyres, according to Hindu practice.
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This is sick. :'(
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This is sick. :'(
The inevitable fruits of misogyny :'(
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This is sick. :'(
Indeed it is, BB - where is the Left's outrage?
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The inevitable fruits of misogyny :'(
You throw that word around a lot. Didn't you recently call someone a misogynist for using word "girl"?
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Indeed it is, BB - where is the Left's outrage?
Conspicuously silent, as usual. I think you'll get a much better response if you post an anti-American or anti-military story.
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Conspicuously silent, as usual. I think you'll get a much better response if you post an anti-American or anti-military story.
Too true, what happened to Left defending the weakest members of our society - those without a voice? Surely these dead babies represent a cause close to every Leftists heart, or maybe not.
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You throw that word around a lot. Didn't you recently call someone a misogynist for using word "girl"?
It's all in the context. and yes, it is misogyny when used as a pejorative with the intent to demean or belittle males.
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You throw that word around a lot. Didn't you recently call someone a misogynist for using word "girl"?
It is a function of misogyny. Don't you ever read anything of an international nature?
http://www.gendercide.org/case_infanticide.html
Female Infanticide
Focus:
(1) India
(2) China
Summary
The phenomenon of female infanticide is as old as many cultures, and has likely accounted for millions of gender-selective deaths throughout history. It remains a critical concern in a number of "Third World" countries today, notably the two most populous countries on earth, China and India. In all cases, specifically female infanticide reflects the low status accorded to women in most parts of the world; it is arguably the most brutal and destructive manifestation of the anti-female bias that pervades "patriarchal" societies. It is closely linked to the phenomena of sex-selective abortion, which targets female fetuses almost exclusively, and neglect of girl children.
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Too true, what happened to Left defending the weakest members of our society - those without a voice? Surely these dead babies represent a cause close to every Leftists heart, or maybe not.
You must not read much either. The left has been hugely vocal in trying to stop the practice of gender-selective murder/abortion. Are you kidding? Do you think feminists are republicans, lol. In fact, a world-renowned leftist, commie pinko rag just reported on it. I really did miss you, dude. Your left-bashing is always good for a chuckle. ;)
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/19/world/asia/19bhopal.html?_r=1&oref=login
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You must not read much either. The left has been hugely vocal in trying to stop the practice of gender-selective murder/abortion. Are you kidding? Do you think feminists are republicans, lol. In fact, a world-renowned leftist, commie pinko rag just reported on it. I really did miss you, dude. Your left-bashing is always good for a chuckle. ;)
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/19/world/asia/19bhopal.html?_r=1&oref=login
Wow, what outrage in that story!
You're right - Deedee, let's just compare this '5 to 10 million dead' with say - the Iraq war - where far, far fewer have lost their lives. Here's what I clearly remember the Left's actions to have been on this issue.
- Worldwide protests involving millions of participants across no less than 50 countries
- A Media full of outrage, The New York Times runs dozens of stories daily on this issue
- Unprecedented hatred and angst aimed at the leaders of India
- A UN furious at India for bypassing its jurisdiction
- Pundits everywhere showing outrage on blogs, radio and TV
- 'Deedee' on Getbig.com showing up in a cacophony of posts demanding action
- French people declaring they'll never visit America India again in disgust
Wait a sec - none of that happened, not a damned thing. In fact, you'd be hard pressed finding anyone from the left that has even mentioned this before. Why is this Deedee?
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I love the Indians who've come to America - all that I've met or worked with are just wonderful people (talking primarily 1st- and 2nd-generation USians in my experience).
The ones who went to Canada, though, well...
Just like the mormons are going to have a tough time ever escaping their sexist, Jim Crow roots, the hindus are going to have a hard time getting away from that whole honor killing crap.
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Wow, what outrage in that story!
You're right - Deedee, let's just compare this '5 to 10 million dead' with say - the Iraq war - where far, far fewer have lost their lives. Here's what I clearly remember the Left's actions to have been on this issue.
- Worldwide protests involving millions of participants across no less than 50 countries
- A Media full of outrage, The New York Times runs dozens of stories daily on this issue
- Unprecedented hatred and angst aimed at the leaders of India
- A UN furious at India for bypassing its jurisdiction
- Pundits everywhere showing outrage on blogs, radio and TV
- 'Deedee' on Getbig.com showing up in a cacophony of posts demanding action
- French people declaring they'll never visit America India again in disgust
Wait a sec - none of that happened, not a damned thing. In fact, you'd be hard pressed finding anyone from the left that has even mentioned this before. Why is this Deedee?
You're right, the "Left" has been sloppy and remiss. After all, the Right has been so busy worrying about what those pesky, affluent homosexuals are getting up to in the US. That and lobbying endlessly to whittle away at women's rights. With a busy-as-a bee schedge like that, of COURSE the responsibility for protesting human rights violations falls fully the lap of the "Left." ::) And you're not embarrassed actually writing that?
This thread is dumber than dumb. What the hell does Iraq have to do with women's rights and female infanticide/abortion in India and China? Or is this your attempt to deflect attention from, or rationalize the death toll in Iraq. Lol. Pathetic analogy. By your logic, someone should tell the Armenians to stop going on about their attempted genocide, since the Jewish one was so much better.
The practice of female infanticide/abortion was outlawed in the mid 90's. Before that feminist organizations and human rights activists protested against it quite extensively. Go google it. Here you are bashing a particular political party that has actually been very active in denouncing the practice, for something that ceased to be officially condoned by the Indian government over a decade ago. Um, you are aware that this is a very old story, right? (And who even had a blog in '92 ::)). Do you have a fever?
But, if you insist on faulting the "Left" for this banned practice, by whatever convoluted logic, shouldn't you also be calling out the Christians. After all, the recent bone discoveries occured on the grounds of a Christian-funded hospital. Aren't they just as culpable?
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What Bruce is trying to say, is that the civilians killed in Iraq in the last four years are far less in number than the infanticide/abortion deaths occuring over centuries in India, so therefore people... aka the "left"... should shut up about Iraq.
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It is a function of misogyny. Don't you ever read anything of an international nature?
http://www.gendercide.org/case_infanticide.html
Female Infanticide
Focus:
(1) India
(2) China
Summary
The phenomenon of female infanticide is as old as many cultures, and has likely accounted for millions of gender-selective deaths throughout history. It remains a critical concern in a number of "Third World" countries today, notably the two most populous countries on earth, China and India. In all cases, specifically female infanticide reflects the low status accorded to women in most parts of the world; it is arguably the most brutal and destructive manifestation of the anti-female bias that pervades "patriarchal" societies. It is closely linked to the phenomena of sex-selective abortion, which targets female fetuses almost exclusively, and neglect of girl children.
I confess the vast majority of the time I spend reading about current events, politics, etc. focuses first on Hawaii and second on the mainland U.S. But I know the abortion of female babies in India is misogynistic.
I was referring to the hypersensitivity over use of the word "girl." I get a little irritated sometimes that I have to really watch my mouth around some feminists. I've been scolded before for using the word "girl(s)." ::)
Then there is the "Open Talk for Girl Discussion" board. . . .
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I think we can all agree that most some feminists are disgusting dykes?
If you believe in equal pay and protection under the law for women, then I hate to burst your baby blue bubble, but that makes you a feminist. If you don't believe in equal pay and rights for women... well, who cares.
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I'm sorry, your right. I don't want to think of my self as a feminist though, just a fair person. :) I actually just mean the big scary type of women that believe they are men. :-X
Everyone does, after feminism got such a bad name because of the Andrea Dworkins of the world.
But just remember that for every scary, Mullet-haired, jumberjack shirt wearing feminist dyke... there is also a petite, pretty, lipstick lesbian feminist out there acting as a balance. ;)
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In south asian culture, girls are simply married off and boys are expected to get married and also support their family(mother, father, younger siblings.) Of course this will cause famalies to favor boys over girls, as girls are not expected to remain attached to the family after marriage, while boys are. It's like a security, you pick the one that gives you the greatest longterm return.
You don't see Indians or south Asian people in general pulling this crap in the west. Why? Young women, whether immigrants or born citizens, get their education and end up with a career. It's simply not like that in India or other developing nations where women are married off and don't choose any sort of career path.
As India improves and becomes richer things will get better. Women will start getting their educations and this bullshit will cease. But for now just think of it as a form of population control.
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Actually, I remember some doctor commenting on this on PBS when I was really young, and these things affected me. He said that if the trend continued, an entire generation of women were going to be wiped out. And now, it seems, his words were not far off teh mark. Apparently there is such a shortage these, that families with girls are often actually getting the cash instead of having to pay it out and even the most hideous chicka gets multiple proposals. It's become a seller's market.
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You could be right about that, deedee. It's pretty tragic when you think about it, as there's not much you can do except for pray that people get educated and their mindsets change for the better.
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You're right, the "Left" has been sloppy and remiss. After all, the Right has been so busy worrying about what those pesky, affluent homosexuals are getting up to in the US. That and lobbying endlessly to whittle away at women's rights.
Oh yes, the same homosexuals and women that enjoy a much higher standard of living in, let’s say, Saudi Arabia? Your selective Leftist thought processes bring me a great deal of humour. Why confuse a debate over how the US should engage the gay community in a civil rights episode with this genocide? You must think they’re comparable, Deedee.
With a busy-as-a bee schedge like that, of COURSE the responsibility for protesting human rights violations falls fully the lap of the "Left." And you're not embarrassed actually writing that?
You’re not embarrassed that I created a thread outlining the murder of millions of children - before they had a chance at life – which you have now used to moan about women’s and homosexual rights? Which right is more important to you, Deedee, the right to life, or the right for two men to be wed? A Leftist shouldn’t have such difficulty deciding.
This thread is dumber than dumb. What the hell does Iraq have to do with women's rights and female infanticide/abortion in India and China?
It should be no surprise that you’ve featured here then, Deedee. What these two events have to do with one another is the Left’s (and yours) ability to discriminate between whose lives it think are more newsworthy. What makes news, Deedee? A million dead Indian children, or an Iraqi in Abu Ghraib prison that had a nude photo taken of them? Which side of the media drives these stories – Right or Left? If the Left is truly for ‘women’s rights’ etc. then it will no doubt see this as a cause close to its collective heart.
Or is this your attempt to deflect attention from, or rationalize the death toll in Iraq. Lol. Pathetic analogy. By your logic, someone should tell the Armenians to stop going on about their attempted genocide, since the Jewish one was so much better.
You counter a ‘pathetic analogy’ with that garbage, eh? I’m trying to bring some perspective, Deedee. Let’s put the deaths in Iraq/media coverage ratio in contrast with this atrocity, shall we?
The practice of female infanticide/abortion was outlawed in the mid 90's. Before that feminist organizations and human rights activists protested against it quite extensively. Go google it. Here you are bashing a particular political party that has actually been very active in denouncing the practice, for something that ceased to be officially condoned by the Indian government over a decade ago. Um, you are aware that this is a very old story, right? (And who even had a blog in '92 ). Do you have a fever?
An ‘old story’ that kills 500,000 children a year (see below)? Oh, okay, Deedee best we pretend it isn’t happening then. What masterful powers of logic you display. Please show me what the Left is currently doing to put a stop to this slaughter.
But, if you insist on faulting the "Left" for this banned practice, by whatever convoluted logic, shouldn't you also be calling out the Christians. After all, the recent bone discoveries occured on the grounds of a Christian-funded hospital. Aren't they just as culpable?
Let me make this clear – I’m not blaming the Left for this occurring at all – I’m pointing out that if is the Left is truly a bastion of human rights, like we have been led to believe, then they should be raising hell on this issue. It’s a fact they’re not.
What Bruce is trying to say, is that the civilians killed in Iraq in the last four years are far less in number than the infanticide/abortion deaths occuring over centuries in India, so therefore people... aka the "left"... should shut up about Iraq.
Wrong, Deedee. What I’m actually saying is, if you add up all of the deaths in Iraq (even the most exaggerated estimates), this murdering of babies before birth outstrips it in just one year. See this article:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0113/p01s04-wosc.html (http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0113/p01s04-wosc.html)
NEW DELHI – Banned by Indian law for more than a decade, the practice of prenatal selection and selective abortion remains a common practice in India, claiming up to half a million female children each year, according to a recent study by the British medical journal, The Lancet.
Maybe it’s you that does not engage in adequate reading, Deedee. I’m not asking the Left to ‘shut up’ about Iraq, but simply put it in perspective with this astronomical genocide.
I’ll say this again: you’re possibly the worst researched and least skilled debater on this forum – I thoroughly enjoy exposing you as such.
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As always, I aim to please Bruce.
Canadians in general are well-informed, and women generally are up on the news of gender discrimination around the world, so you needn't have bothered posting those numbers for me. I'm aware of them. However, most people here probably aren't, so you are definitely doing a good deed in bringing up this issue. That's why I don't mind responding to your thread, regardless of the fact that I find you pompous, arrogant, etc...
And further, you bring up an excellent point here that really inspires some questions. After the WMD threat didn't pan out, the reason given for the US invasion of Iraq was of a humanitarian nature... essentially to depose a vicious dictator and save the people from tyrany. However, as you have so eloquently pointed out, the systematic killing of girl babies in India is far more grave and despicable than a few isolated gassings and the odd castration. If the US invaded Iraq on humanitarian grounds as claimed, why have they not invaded India first?
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Great to see BRUCE putting the spotlight on these problems that stems in women being seen as second class citizens.
India is a shithole in many ways, as is still many 3rd world countries where women's right only exists in theory.
Wollstonecraft was one of the brightest political minds ever.
-Hedge
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You must not read much either. The left has been hugely vocal in trying to stop the practice of gender-selective murder/abortion. Are you kidding? Do you think feminists are republicans, lol. In fact, a world-renowned leftist, commie pinko rag just reported on it. I really did miss you, dude. Your left-bashing is always good for a chuckle. ;)
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/19/world/asia/19bhopal.html?_r=1&oref=login
If the left is so against gender selective murder/abortion in India then why are they so for abortion here?
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Great to see BRUCE putting the spotlight on these problems that stems in women being seen as second class citizens.
India is a shithole in many ways, as is still many 3rd world countries where women's right only exists in theory.
Wollstonecraft was one of the brightest political minds ever.
-Hedge
The majority of people in third world countries don't have educations and aren't exposed to what you and I are. Of course they're going to be backwards and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. But look on the bright side, the populations of those respective nations that are educated DON'T participate in shit like that. People deserve a chance to improve.
And killing off these babies, is that much of a big deal? Most of these people are poor unskilled laborers and are better off with less children.
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If the left is so against gender selective murder/abortion in India then why are they so for abortion here?
I think the left is in favor of women having control over their own bodies, destinies, etc... The word "choice" figures prominently in the argument.
Gender-selective murder/abortion is discrimination against the female gender. These mothers would not be killing or aborting these babies if they were boys. They are forced to, because the babies are female. There is no "choice" in the equation.
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The majority of people in third world countries don't have educations and aren't exposed to what you and I are. Of course they're going to be backwards and there's not a damn thing you can do about it. But look on the bright side, the populations of those respective nations that are educated DON'T participate in shit like that. People deserve a chance to improve.
And killing off these babies, is that much of a big deal? Most of these people are poor unskilled laborers and are better off with less children.
Of course they're better off with less children.
Problem is that they save the boys.
Another problem is that safe sex is not being taught in many 3rd world countries, some organisations, such as the Christian Conservative Lobby in the USA and the Vatican, oppose Safe Sex education.
Hence the spread of HIV, another related problem.
I think all of us could agree that the only way to deal with this is to raise the level of education and civilization in these societies.
-Hedge
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I think the left is in favor of women having control over their own bodies, destinies, etc... The word "choice" figures prominently in the argument.
Gender-selective murder/abortion is discrimination against the female gender. These mothers would not be killing or aborting these babies if they were boys. They are forced to, because the babies are female. There is no "choice" in the equation.
CHOICE is nothing but a word libs like to throw around when it fits their agenda. Where is the babies choice? Thakn god none of us in here were aborted. We all got the chance to become what we will become. And thousands of "unwanted" babies a day get a chance and have become some of the more famous people in the world.
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CHOICE is nothing but a word libs like to throw around when it fits their agenda. Where is the babies choice? Thakn god none of us in here were aborted. We all got the chance to become what we will become. And thousands of "unwanted" babies a day get a chance and have become some of the more famous people in the world.
Too bad you can't get pregnant. Sounds like you'd make a great mom. ;)
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Too bad you can't get pregnant. Sounds like you'd make a great mom. ;)
Don't know about a mom, but I get compliments on my fathering alot.
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Indeed it is, BB - where is the Left's outrage?
I must have missed the outrage from the Right.
By the way, what the hell does the Left have to do with this story? Why would you even mention it other than to try and denigrate them?
Good for you you've managed to turn a tragic situation in India into a Right vs. Left bullschit fest. ::)
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I must have missed the outrage from the Right.
By the way, what the hell does the Left have to do with this story? Why would you even mention it other than to try and denigrate them?
Good for you you've managed to turn a tragic situation in India into a Right vs. Left bullschit fest. ::)
Morning, Trollington.
Read above (particularly my post in response to Deedee), for the answer to your questions.
Great to see most of the people here are reacting really well to this story, it's nothing short of a tragedy.
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Morning, Trollington.
Read above (particularly my post in response to Deedee), for the answer to your questions.
Great to see most of the people here are reacting really well to this story, it's nothing short of a tragedy.
This is your second post in the thread. The second thing you had to say in a thread about tragic deaths in India is a bash on Liberals. LOL
Indeed it is, BB - where is the Left's outrage?
As I mentioned, nice to see you turn a tragic situation into a left bashing session. ::)
Could you be more pathetic? At this point you're so ridiculous that it's laughable. ;D
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This is your second post in the thread.
Good to see we can go ahead and put counting on that list of things you can't do.
You accuse of wasting my time bashing the Left, and yet here you are, in another of my threads, trolling away at me, adding nothing meaningful to the debate.
Oh the irony.
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Good to see we can go ahead and put counting on that list of things you can't do.
You accuse of wasting my time bashing the Left, and yet here you are, in another of my threads, trolling away at me, adding nothing meaningful to the debate.
Oh the irony.
If you weren't so full of schit I wouldn't have to point it out all the time. It's your own fault.
This is your first post.
I've recently added the following story to my new weblog:
After being rocked by terror attacks this week, it's now been revealed that India has somewhat of a black market for abortions, with some 400 baby bones found after they were terminated, buried and subsequently unearthed. See now this genocide that has ended the lives of an estimated 10 million (given, this is a Lancet figure) Indian babies before they even started.
Police were investigating a hospital's involvement in illegal female feticide after 437 baby bones were dug up close by the complex, a state government said.
Police began unearthing the bones on Saturday from Christian Medical Hospital, in central Madhya Pradesh state, after a tip-off that medical staff were carrying out illegal abortions.
"Initial reports indicate feticide or infanticide," said state health minister Ajay Vishnoi.
'Feticide'? That's an interesting spin on what I would call murder. Note also the amazing effect this swathe of baby killing has had on the Punjab region.
Punjab has the worst gender ratio in India, with 798 girls for every thousand boys under the age of six.
A study by The Lancet, a British medical journal, said last year that India may have lost 10 million unborn girls in the past 20 years. Indian experts put the figure at about five million.
Incredible, so we have 5 to 10 million dead children? That puts this in the region of deaths from the Holocaust. But where are the protests, the outrage? The astonishing number of abortions in the last 20 years in India should put this as one of the greatest Human Rights violations of our time - particulary when you consider why this is occuring.
Hundreds of thousands of unborn girls are killed each year in India, where families prize sons who are seen as breadwinners and required to light their parents' funeral pyres, according to Hindu practice.
Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Death_toll (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Death_toll)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070219/wl_sthasia_afp/healthindiacrime (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070219/wl_sthasia_afp/healthindiacrime)
This is your second post.
Indeed it is, BB - where is the Left's outrage?
Yep, sure looks like I screwed up that count. LOL
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It's semantics, of course, as I assumed you were referring to my total amount of posts in this thread. Perhaps if I paid closer attention to your trolling I would have picked up on it.
This, of course, is not semantics:
You accuse of wasting my time bashing the Left, and yet here you are, in another of my threads, trolling away at me, adding nothing meaningful to the debate.
Oh the irony.
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I must have missed the outrage from the Right.
By the way, what the hell does the Left have to do with this story? Why would you even mention it other than to try and denigrate them?
Good for you you've managed to turn a tragic situation in India into a Right vs. Left bullschit fest. ::)
What he means is that as a liberal, you shouldn't criticize your government or the war in Iraq, even though it directly affects you, your family, your neighbors, and fellow citizens, because what's going on in some third world shithole (as someone pointed out) is "worse."
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It's semantics, of course, as I assumed you were referring to my total amount of posts in this thread. Perhaps if I paid closer attention to your trolling I would have picked up on it.
This, of course, is not semantics:
You accuse of wasting my time bashing the Left, and yet here you are, in another of my threads, trolling away at me, adding nothing meaningful to the debate.
Oh the irony.
Semantics? LOL
That's what you call being dead wrong, AGAIN. LOL
Keep digging.
You post bullshit, I point it out. You'll notice I don't do that on any other threads. You're the cause, get over yourself. And I notice you haven't denied that you turned a tragic story into a Left bashing session. ;D
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What he means is that as a liberal, you shouldn't criticize your government or the war in Iraq, even though it directly affects you, your family, your neighbors, and fellow citizens, because what's going on in some third world shithole (as someone pointed out) is "worse."
I've already taken you apart on this claim previously, Deedee. Let's not have me show you up anymore than is necessary in one thread.
Isn't it amazing how few Leftists want to tackle this issue?
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You'll notice I don't do that on any other threads. You're the cause, get over yourself.
Keep telling yourself it's my fault you e-stalk me here, okay? I'm done responding to you unless of course you have some information of logical, issue-based opinions to add.
I'll welcome you back into the flock when you can do this, alright?
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Keep telling yourself it's my fault you e-stalk me here, okay? I'm done responding to you unless of course you have some information of logical, issue-based opinions to add.
I'll welcome you back into the flock when you can do this, alright?
Flock? What flock? LOL
Do you have delusions of grandeur or something? What flock could you possibly be in that I would want to be a part of? This is just getting funnier and funnier. ;D