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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Nordic Superman on February 28, 2007, 02:54:24 PM
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"I am Muslim. I'm not going to carry alcohol," Mohamed, a driver for Bloomington Cab, told a Metropolitan Airports Commission panel that gathered public opinion Tuesday regarding proposed penalties for cabbies who refuse service to passengers carrying alcohol.
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/breaking_news/16796944.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp
The islamisation of the US begins.
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That's messed up.... Away with him >:(
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Worse still is the refusal to carry blind passengers due to their canine companions.
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Worse still is the refusal to carry blind passengers due to their canine companions.
Haha. Is there something in the Koran about that? "Beast shall transport man. Never other way round." :)
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Haha. Is there something in the Koran about that? "Beast shall transport man. Never other way round." :)
I'm really not sure, but I think whoever calls the shots on this should realise the vision impaired community's rights have to come first.
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"I am Muslim. I'm not going to carry alcohol," Mohamed, a driver for Bloomington Cab, told a Metropolitan Airports Commission panel that gathered public opinion Tuesday regarding proposed penalties for cabbies who refuse service to passengers carrying alcohol.
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/breaking_news/16796944.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp
The islamisation of the US begins.
How do they even know if someone is carrying alcohol?
I say it's a free country, ...and they have the right to refuse carriage to anyone carrying alcohol, or travelling with a seeing eye dog if that's what they believe. By exercising that right, ...they also have the right to seek employment in some other capacity. By the same token, the cab companies also have the right as well as duty to fire their asses, ...and the city or whoever licenses cabs has the right to revoke and/or refuse to re-issue their licenses for discrimination. Their beliefs are one thing, ...however, when it infringes upon the lawful rights of others... they have no business being in a capacity that demands the rights of others be trampelled so they can practice their beliefs. Time for those cabbis to get a different job.
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How do they even know if someone is carrying alcohol?
I say it's a free country, ...and they have the right to refuse carriage to anyone carrying alcohol, or travelling with a seeing eye dog if that's what they believe. By exercising that right, ...they also have the right to seek employment in some other capacity. By the same token, the cab companies also have the right as well as duty to fire their asses, ...and the city or whoever licenses cabs has the right to revoke and/or refuse to re-issue their licenses for discrimination. Their beliefs are one thing, ...however, when it infringes upon the lawful rights of others... they have no business being in a capacity that demands the rights of others be trampelled so they can practice their beliefs. Time for those cabbis to get a different job.
Your PC drivel makes me cringe. You need a good fucking off a 14 inch dildo.
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How do they even know if someone is carrying alcohol?
I say it's a free country, ...and they have the right to refuse carriage to anyone carrying alcohol, or travelling with a seeing eye dog if that's what they believe.
You must be kidding.
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You must be kidding.
No, she really believes discrimation is a valid choice if it is your belief.
If you ask me... businesses should discriminate against black women and not employ them!
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How do they even know if someone is carrying alcohol?
I say it's a free country, ...and they have the right to refuse carriage to anyone carrying alcohol, or travelling with a seeing eye dog if that's what they believe. By exercising that right, ...they also have the right to seek employment in some other capacity. By the same token, the cab companies also have the right as well as duty to fire their asses, ...and the city or whoever licenses cabs has the right to revoke and/or refuse to re-issue their licenses for discrimination. Their beliefs are one thing, ...however, when it infringes upon the lawful rights of others... they have no business being in a capacity that demands the rights of others be trampelled so they can practice their beliefs. Time for those cabbis to get a different job.
Probably people carry alcohol separately, in duty-free bags?
Or if they're like me... you can hear their clanging bottles in the suitcase a mile away. :D
Immigrants are often taxi drivers, and Sommalians tend to be strict about interpreting their religion so makes sense the dispute would center around this particular business. But, what you say is true... there are other means of gainful employment that wouldn't infringe on their beliefs.
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"I am Muslim. I'm not going to carry alcohol," Mohamed, a driver for Bloomington Cab, told a Metropolitan Airports Commission panel that gathered public opinion Tuesday regarding proposed penalties for cabbies who refuse service to passengers carrying alcohol.
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/breaking_news/16796944.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp
The islamisation of the US begins.
I'm sure you're equally appalled by Christian pharmacists who refuse to dispense medically prescribed abortion pills.
Right? :)
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Your PC drivel makes me cringe. You need a good fucking off a 14 inch dildo.
don't tease me. :P
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You must be kidding.
You must be illiterate.
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You must be illiterate.
Yes, my seeing eye dog proof-reads everything I type here. Thankfully, my residence is not under Sharia law.
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Hey, please hold it down in this thread, this is not a bush bashing thread and as such is supposed to be limited in particpation!
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Yes, my seeing eye dog proof-reads everything I type here. Thankfully, my residence is not under Sharia law.
That explains it. ;)
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That explains it. ;)
You, on the other hand, have no reasonable excuse for putting the wants of immigrant taxi drivers before the needs of people that are vision impaired. Shame on you.
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You, on the other hand, have no reasonable excuse for putting the wants of immigrant taxi drivers before the needs of people that are vision impaired. Shame on you.
OK, so your seeing eye dog proof-reads everything you type.
What I wanna know is who translates or interprets what you read?
...John Feith and the neo-con cherry pickers?
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OK, so your seeing eye dog proof-reads everything you type.
What I wanna know is who translates or interprets what you read?
...John Feith and the neo-con cherry pickers?
Could it be the same person that pens your witty material?
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Could it be the same person that pens your witty material?
Is this a new incarnation? Are we witnessing the re-birth of Bruce.
From passive / aggressive spin meister to naive troll? Enquiring minds want to know.
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Is this a new incarnation? Are we witnessing the re-birth of Bruce.
From passive / aggressive spin meister to naive troll? Enquiring minds want to know.
Care to engage this 'troll' in a debate? You name the topic, we'll let the others decide the winner. Think you can beat me?
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Care to engage this 'troll' in a debate? You name the topic, we'll let the others decide the winner. Think you can beat me?
{LOL} I was mistaken, ...not just a naive troll, ...but a comedian too (not a good one, but I give pts for trying)
Sorry, you're not worth the effort, ...not that it would require much, ...but still not worth it.
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{LOL} I was mistaken, ...not just a naive troll, ...but a comedian too (not a good one, but I give pts for trying)
Sorry, you're not worth the effort, ...not that it would require much, ...but still not worth it.
How novel, you label my efforts here trollism, and yet you back down from a reasoned debate against me. I'll put you back into the 'politely ignore' box from now on, okay?
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{LOL} I was mistaken, ...not just a naive troll, ...but a comedian too (not a good one, but I give pts for trying)
Sorry, you're not worth the effort, ...not that it would require much, ...but still not worth it.
He's lonely in The Cage without anyone to keep him company. :)
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Doesn't look like there's much to debate. Judi was agreeing that Sommalian taxi drivers should find other employment if they can't bring themselves to transport passengers with alcohol. From the article posted, it doesn't appear that transporting seeing eye dogs is an issue with these people.
The Ribo does bring up food for thought in the post that got squashed between the others...
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Doesn't look like there's much to debate. Judi was agreeing that Sommalian taxi drivers should find other employment if they can't bring themselves to transport passengers with alcohol. From the article posted, it doesn't appear that transporting seeing eye dogs is an issue with these people.
The Ribo does bring up food for thought in the post that got squashed between the others...
Ribo's point wasn't squashed. It's just that Bruce chose to ignore and try to deflect. He's just being himself. :)
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How novel, you label my efforts here trollism, and yet you back down from a reasoned debate against me. I'll put you back into the 'politely ignore' box from now on, okay?
ps... as per the rules, you're not supposed to attempt to goad anyone into entering the cage. :)
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Ribo's point wasn't squashed. It's just that Bruce chose to ignore and try to deflect. He's just being himself. :)
Well, it's a valid point. Why is it "more" acceptable for Christian pharmacists to disobey the law?
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He's lonely in The Cage without anyone to keep him company. :)
He'll be abhorring the cage in a few days. I have a feeling DeBussey might make short work of him
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Well, it's a valid point. Why is it "more" acceptable for Christian pharmacists to disobey the law?
You know my feelings on that. I don't think it's acceptable at all, ...and far more detrimental to society.
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ps... as per the rules, you're not supposed to attempt to goad anyone into entering the cage. :)
P.S. Where did I mention anything about The Cage?
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Well, it's a valid point. Why is it "more" acceptable for Christian pharmacists to disobey the law?
To reply on this, and I did mean to reply earlier, for your 'edification':
If this is indeed occurring, I was unaware of it, and would like to see a link. Should it be proven to be correct, I will condemn it as I have this taxi driver issue. I'd like to think people should leave their religions behind when fulfilling the obligations of their jobs.
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To reply on this, and I did mean to reply earlier, for your 'edification':
If this is indeed occurring, I was unaware of it, and would like to see a link. Should it be proven to be correct, I will condemn it as I have this taxi driver issue. I'd like to think people should leave their religions behind when fulfilling the obligations of their jobs.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-11-08-druggists-pill_x.htm
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-11-08-druggists-pill_x.htm
Thanks, RN. I completely disagree with this pharmacist's decision and condemn them for acting in this manner.
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http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-11-08-druggists-pill_x.htm
This story is over two years old. :-\
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This story is over two years old. :-\
http://www.constitutioncenter.org/education/ForEducators/DiscussionStarters/PharmacistConscienceLaws.shtml
http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/conscienceclauses.htm
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http://www.constitutioncenter.org/education/ForEducators/DiscussionStarters/PharmacistConscienceLaws.shtml
This is a little better. It cites articles that are only two years old (2005 instead of 2004). :D I understand the issue though. I've never discussed this one. Seems to me they ought to allow the pharmacist to object to filling the prescription on "moral" grounds, but require that he or she refer the patient to someone else (in the same office or reasonably nearby) who can fill it.
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This is a little better.
http://www.pfli.org/
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P.S. Where did I mention anything about The Cage?
My mistake. This sounded like a cage challenge.
Care to engage this 'troll' in a debate? You name the topic, we'll let the others decide the winner. Think you can beat me?
The comment about the pharmacists wasn't aimed at you in particular. I was just musing in general.
To reply on this, and I did mean to reply earlier, for your 'edification':
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This is a little better. It cites articles that are only two years old (2005 instead of 2004). :D I understand the issue though. I've never discussed this one. Seems to me they ought to allow the pharmacist to object to filling the prescription on "moral" grounds, but require that he or she refer the patient to someone else (in the same office or reasonably nearby) who can fill it.
But that sounds exactly like what the cabbies are saying. :-\
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But that sounds exactly like what the cabbies are saying. :-\
Yeah, but Christianity is true and Islam is just some crazy bullshit they made up. ::)
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http://www.pfli.org/
Ding ding ding! We have a winner! ;D
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But that sounds exactly like what the cabbies are saying. :-\
I think it's a different situation with the cabbies, because they work for a company. If the company cannot reasonably accommodate the cabbies (and I'm not sure how they would do that), the cabbies have to find another job. If the cabbie is independent, he or she can do whatever they want.
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I think it's a different situation with the cabbies, because they work for a company. If the company cannot reasonably accommodate the cabbies (and I'm not sure how they would do that), the cabbies have to find another job. If the cabbie is independent, he or she can do whatever they want.
You're right to a certain degree. However, it looks like the Airports Commission is involved with the whole beef because as they stated, there's a safety issue involved here, in that they don't want people running amok at the airport careening into oncoming traffic trying to hail a cabbie willing to tote alcohol. So even if you have a bunch of independents, looks like it's still a prob. By the same token, from a health standpoint, women shouldn't have to scour the countryside to find a pharmacist willing to fulfill their prescriptions. Don't know if I'm explaining it well, but I think there's at least a string of a connection between the two.
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You're right to a certain degree. However, it looks like the Airports Commission is involved with the whole beef because as they stated, there's a safety issue involved here, in that they don't want people running amok at the airport careening into oncoming traffic trying to hail a cabbie willing to tote alcohol. So even if you have a bunch of independents, looks like it's still a prob. By the same token, from a health standpoint, women shouldn't have to scour the countryside to find a pharmacist willing to fulfill their prescriptions. Don't know if I'm explaining it well, but I think there's at least a string of a connection between the two.
I'm not sure how big of a problem this cabbie thing is. People often argue that the floodgates will open when you start accommodating various religious practices. That's hardly ever the case, particularly when you're dealing with unusual practices. I don't know anything about how many of them refuse to take fares of people with alcohol, but I would imagine we're talking about an insignificant number? Don't know.
I don't think a woman should have to scour the countryside either. That's why I said I think the moral objection is okay, but I would "require that he or she refer the patient to someone else (in the same office or reasonably nearby) who can fill it."
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Cabbies are no different whether they work for a company or are independent.
They are a form of PUBLIC transportation that must adhere to codes.
If a Somali doesn't want to transport person carry alcohol or guide dogs that's his right (when acting as a private citizen in his private vehicle) on the job, he's charged with transporting the public, and as long as someone is not breaking any laws, or posing a risk to them or their property, they have no right to refuse them service. If the guy is drunk and puking... that's one thing, ...but carrying a bottle of wine?
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Cabbies are no different whether they work for a company or are independent.
They are a form of PUBLIC transportation that must adhere to codes.
If a Somali doesn't want to transport person carry alcohol or guide dogs that's his right (when acting as a private citizen in his private vehicle) on the job, he's charged with transporting the public, and as long as someone is not breaking any laws, or posing a risk to them or their property, they have no right to refuse them service. If the guy is drunk and puking... that's one thing, ...but carrying a bottle of wine?
You said previously that a taxi driver has the right to refuse blind clients, and yet now you say booze carriers are okay?
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Stupid mother fuckers... So crazy about their faith and how carrying alcohol goes against their faith, but not one concern about how they are infringing on the freedom of others.
Fuck these guys. Take away their licenses and let's see how they like that, and if they take action then they should be deported.
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I'm sure you're equally appalled by Christian pharmacists who refuse to dispense medically prescribed abortion pills.
Right? :)
Not quite as appauled, but somewhat appauled.
Don't really know where I stand on abortion to give a true opinion on that one. Personally, in this day and age, too many women use abortion as a birth control method - it makes me sick.
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I'm sure you're equally appalled by Christian pharmacists who refuse to dispense medically prescribed abortion pills.
Right? :)
I am...
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But that sounds exactly like what the cabbies are saying. :-\
If you want to be an islamist and not carry alchohol then you should label your cab company as a muslim cab company. If you want to be a pharmicist and not give birth control you should lable your store a christian drug store. But if it is open to the general public, you have no right to refuse service. If anyone has ever lived in Utah you will know what it is like to have religion forced upon you. All of their laws are based on Mormon beliefs. But I still will probably retire there and understand that I will have to deal with it.
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what if i want to be a racist and keep knee gurrs out of my bar?
Call it a white only bar and see how far you get with the law
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Cabbies are no different whether they work for a company or are independent.
They are a form of PUBLIC transportation that must adhere to codes.
If a Somali doesn't want to transport person carry alcohol or guide dogs that's his right (when acting as a private citizen in his private vehicle) on the job, he's charged with transporting the public, and as long as someone is not breaking any laws, or posing a risk to them or their property, they have no right to refuse them service. If the guy is drunk and puking... that's one thing, ...but carrying a bottle of wine?
An independent cab driver is not a form of public transportation. And what "codes" are you talking about?
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An independent cab driver is not a form of public transportation. And what "codes" are you talking about?
It pains me that Jag is such lib because I bet she is smoking! Canada produces some of the hottest women around
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It pains me that Jag is such lib because I bet she is smoking! Canada produces some of the hottest women around
{giggle} :P Yes we do, ...and yes we are!
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An independent cab driver is not a form of public transportation. And what "codes" are you talking about?
No, an independent cab driver is not a form of public transportation. An independent cab driver is an independent cab driver. The service he provides however IS public transportation through private enterprise.
Cabs, while they are not buses, or subways, are considered a form of public transportation.
They must be licensed by the city in which they operate and adhere to certain guidelines, and regulations as required by the licensing body.
I know parts of Hawaii can be pretty rural, ...but I doubt cabs there consist of some guy with a car who says give me $10 and I'll take you there, ...while you hop in his back seat and try to avoid squishing his daughters tickle me Elmo. Cabs are a regulated form of public transportation through private enterprise.
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Cabs are a regulated form of public transportation through private enterprise.
Good point. That might mean they are indeed subject to whatever anti-discrimination laws apply to those who provide public transportation.
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Good point. That might mean they are indeed subject to whatever anti-discrimination laws apply to those who provide public transportation.
Hence the right of the cab companies to rightfully & justifiably firing them for discriminating against those who are carrying alcohol. I think a temporary suspension as proposed is inappropriate. No tolerance. Fire them.
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Hence the right of the cab companies to rightfully & justifiably firing them for discriminating against those who are carrying alcohol. I think a temporary suspension as proposed is inappropriate. No tolerance. Fire them.
No, you're confusing two different issues. I was talking about whether an independent driver was subject to anti-discrimination laws. You raised a good point about licensing, which I think might subject independent drivers to those laws.
Whether a company can fire an employee is a different issue. They have to try and accommodate the employee's religious practice, unless it would cause an undue burden on the company.
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No, you're confusing two different issues. I was talking about whether an independent driver was subject to anti-discrimination laws. You raised a good point about licensing, which I think might subject independent drivers to those laws.
Whether a company can fire an employee is a different issue. They have to try and accommodate the employee's religious practice, unless it would cause an undue burden on the company.
However if that religious practice causes the company to break the law, then the two are incompatible.
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However if that religious practice causes the company to break the law, then the two are incompatible.
Not necessarily. If the company can provide another cabbie to perform the service, then laws prohibiting discrimination in public accommodations/transportation wouldn't be violated. I think it's similar to the pharmacist issue that Ribo posted the other day.
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Not necessarily. If the company can provide another cabbie to perform the service, then laws prohibiting discrimination in public accommodations/transportation wouldn't be violated. I think it's similar to the pharmacist issue that Ribo posted the other day.
I suppose if people wanted to make a real issue out of it, when they call for a cab they should specify "I'll be carrying alcohol along with my seeing eye dog", ...whether they are or not. :P
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I suppose if people wanted to make a real issue out of it, when they call for a cab they should specify "I'll be carrying alcohol along with my seeing eye dog", ...whether they are or not. :P
Oh you think that is a joke? There is a lady in a wheelchair in Hawaii who goes around to establishments throughout the islands and if she cannot access the establishment her lawyer, also wheelchair bound, sues the establishment for violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act. She has probably filed about 50 or more lawsuits (probably more). She is nothing more than a prostitute and her lawyer is a pimp. >:(
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Oh you think that is a joke? There is a lady in a wheelchair in Hawaii who goes around to establishments throughout the islands and if she cannot access the establishment her lawyer, also wheelchair bound, sues the establishment for violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act. She has probably filed about 50 or more lawsuits (probably more). She is nothing more than a prostitute and her lawyer is a pimp. >:(
I don't think it's a joke. I think it would be effective. People willing to discriminate against law abiding citizens in pursuit of a little happiness should NOT be charged with carrying the public. I'd be willing to specify I want a driver that doesn't discriminate. If that means the other cabbies who discriminate aren't getting the fares... too bad for them. Perhaps they might consider more suitable employment. So ya, ...if that were me... I'd call the cab company and specify that I will be carrying alcohol and my seeing eye dog and I want a driver willing to transport us. :)
Think about it. You apply for a job as a taxidermist, but then tell your boss that you are a Brahmin <sp> and are forbidden from touching dead animal flesh... how well do you think that would go over? So why apply for let alone accept the job to begin with? Understand what your job description will be ahead of time, and if there is anything in it that conflicts with your religious beliefs, then weigh your options and make your decisions accordingly. Either accept the job and do it, ...or don't accept the job and follow your religion. but you cannot have your cake and eat it too.
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I don't think it's a joke. I think it would be effective. People willing to discriminate against law abiding citizens in pursuit of a little happiness should NOT be charged with carrying the public. I'd be willing to specify I want a driver that doesn't discriminate. If that means the other cabbies who discriminate aren't getting the fares... too bad for them. Perhaps they might consider more suitable employment. So ya, ...if that were me... I'd call the cab company and specify that I will be carrying alcohol and my seeing eye dog and I want a driver willing to transport us. :)
Think about it. You apply for a job as a taxidermist, but then tell your boss that you are a Brahmin <sp> and are forbidden from touching dead animal flesh... how well do you think that would go over? So why apply for let alone accept the job to begin with? Understand what your job description will be ahead of time, and if there is anything in it that conflicts with your religious beliefs, then weigh your options and make your decisions accordingly. Either accept the job and do it, ...or don't accept the job and follow your religion. but you cannot have your cake and eat it too.
O.K. Now you're all over the place. :) A person has to be able to perform the essential job functions and the employer has to accommodate a bona fide religious practice, unless it creates a undue burden on the employer. So, the taxidermist would have no obligation to hire a "Brahmin" (whatever that is).
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O.K. Now you're all over the place. :) A person has to be able to perform the essential job functions and the employer has to accommodate a bona fide religious practice, unless it creates a undue burden on the employer. So, the taxidermist would have no obligation to hire a "Brahmin" (whatever that is).
However, isn't asking a person what their religion is on a job application against the law? It is up here.
Therefore the onus is on the employee to learn his job description and determine if he can commit to it's duties and obligations prior to accepting the job. If he can't, ...the employer is completely justified in firing him. It's not religious discrimination, ...it's simply an inability to do the job required. not all over the place at all. My position has remained consistent since first viewing this thread. It hasn't changed and it's not going to.
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However, isn't asking a person what their religion is on a job application against the law? It is up here.
Therefore the onus is on the employee to learn his job description and determine if he can commit to it's duties and obligations prior to accepting the job. If he can't, ...the employer is completely justified in firing him. It's not religious discrimination, ...it's simply an inability to do the job required. not all over the place at all. My position has remained consistent since first viewing this thread. It hasn't changed and it's not going to.
I don't think it's against the law to ask (not sure), but it's against the law to refuse to hire because of their religion. Dumb to ask, but I'm not sure the question itself is prohibited. I'm part of the "hiring committee" at my company and I interview people all the time. I NEVER ask that question.
But that doesn't matter, because if the employee cannot perform the essential job functions the employer, if they are doing their job, will determine this during the interview. It's not that complicated.