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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: ieffinhatecardio on March 05, 2007, 07:21:23 PM
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I wonder why they care all of a sudden? Did they not care two years ago?
I love it, the guy that's been in charge for 6 months is taking the blame.
Oh, I believe Rep. Tierney is Maura Tierney's father, she's an actress on ER and formerly on Newsradio.
http://apnews1.iwon.com//article/20070306/D8NMCSR80.html (http://apnews1.iwon.com//article/20070306/D8NMCSR80.html)
By ANNE FLAHERTY
WASHINGTON (AP) - Flayed by lawmakers' criticism, Army leaders said Monday they accept responsibility for substandard conditions at the service's flagship Walter Reed Army Medical Center but also said they hadn't known about most of the problems.
Democrats and Republicans alike suggested the failings go far beyond the one hospital for wounded soldiers in Washington, and they demanded action. Military leaders - and Vice President Dick Cheney - promised they'd get it.
"We can't fail one of these soldiers or their families, not one. And we did," said Maj. Gen. George W. Weightman, who was in charge of Walter Reed from August 2006 until he was fired last week. He added, "We did not fully recognize the frustrating bureaucratic and administrative processes some of these soldiers go through. We should have, and in this I failed."
Weightman's comments were echoed by other top Army officials at an emotional House hearing held at the hospital itself as Congress began digging into the controversy.
In a session that mixed contrition and clashes, lawmakers said dilapidated housing and excessive red tape were problems beyond Walter Reed, underscoring how recent revelations about the hospital have become a metaphor for broader concerns about the government's treatment of soldiers returning from wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
"I'm afraid this is just the tip of the iceberg, that when we got out into the field we may find more of this," said Rep. Tom Davis, R-Va., a member of the House Oversight and Government Reform subcommittee that held the session.
"My question is, where have you been?" Rep. John Tierney, D-Mass., chairman of the panel, asked Army Undersecretary Peter Geren, Army Chief of Staff Gen. Peter Schoomaker and Vice Chief Gen. Richard Cody.
In one exchange, Schoomaker told Tierney, "I've got a daughter and a son-in-law that are on the way to combat. This is not something about people who don't care. And I am not going to sit here and have anybody tell me that we don't care about _"
"Nobody said anything about people not caring, so we'll put that red herring aside and, if I can, calm you down and get you back to the issue here," Tierney answered.
Addressing war veterans on Monday, Cheney promised that the problems at Walter Reed would be fixed.
"There will be no excuses - only action," Cheney told a gathering of the Veterans of Foreign Wars. "And the federal bureaucracy will not slow that action down."
Separately, as the Bush administration tried to contain political damage from the controversy, Veterans Affairs Secretary James Nicholson said his office would hire 100 new patient advocates, speed benefit claims and improve medical screenings for veterans at its facilities.
"Our goal is to do things that serve the veterans in the manner that they deserve the best way that we can," Nicholson said in an interview on NPR's "All Things Considered."
A big question for lawmakers - left largely unanswered Monday - was what Army officials knew about the problems before a series of articles last month by The Washington Post shined a spotlight on them, and whether they chose to ignore them.
In addition to Weightman's resignation, Defense Secretary Robert Gates forced Army Secretary Francis Harvey to step down last Friday. In addition, Gates replaced Lt. Gen. Kevin C. Kiley, who was named interim commander of Walter Reed, which he had led from 2000 until 2004, when he became Army surgeon general.
Kiley said Monday he had been aware of some issues, including an October service assessment citing problems with Walter Reed staffing, medical evaluations and patient handling.
When asked by Rep. Christopher Shays why he hadn't previously asked Congress for money to fix the problems, Kiley said he did not think money was the issue. The general said the system for outpatient care is "complex, confusing and frustrating" and that more doctors, nurses and other staff are being brought in.
Lawmakers were not convinced.
"What you're saying though, under oath, is that you have all the resources necessary to you," said Shays, R-Conn. "And I honestly don't believe that. I don't believe that."
Rep. Henry Waxman pointed to several investigative reports - including assessments by the Rand Corp. and the Government Accountability Office - dating back two years ago that sounded "alarm bells."
"Despite all the work that went on before, top Pentagon officials reacted to the reports at Walter Reed two weeks ago by claiming surprise," said Waxman, D-Calif.
Monday's hearing came as the new Democratic-controlled Congress is considering the administration's $93.4 billion request for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan - a spending blueprint that includes money to send 21,500 additional troops in Iraq. Democrats are looking for a way to force Bush to begin bringing troops home and spend some money instead on veterans' health care.
Lawmakers listened as several patients testified with stories of lax or poor treatment at Walter Reed.
Staff Sgt. John Daniel Shannon, who lost his left eye and suffered traumatic brain injuries from a rifle wound, said that after he was discharged from Walter Reed, he was given a map of the grounds and eventually found his way to outpatient quarters by wandering around and asking for directions.
Then, he says, he "sat in my room for a couple of weeks wondering when someone would contact" him about continuing treatment.
"My biggest concern is having young men and women who have had their lives shattered in service to their country ... get taken care of," Shannon said.
Annette McLeod told the committee that her husband, Cpl. Wendell McLeod, was originally sent to the wrong hospital after he was hit in the head with a steel door in Iraq and also suffered a head injury. Once at Walter Reed, she said, he suffered delays in getting outpatient tests and treatment.
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and while all of this talking, meeting, investigating is going on, are the troops being seen after properly?
At least a month ago, a woman got on the local radio program complaining that care packages were no longer being accepted at Walter Reed.
Can things for the troops get any worse? You would think once back on home turf, they would be seen as heroes and taken care as such.
The government should be ashamed of how they handle our troops.
Sandra
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and while all of this talking, meeting, investigating is going on, are the troops being seen after properly?
At least a month ago, a woman got on the local radio program complaining that care packages were no longer being accepted at Walter Reed.
Can things for the troops get any worse? You would think once back on home turf, they would be seen as heroes and taken care as such.
The government should be ashamed of how they handle our troops.
Sandra
I agree it's a disgrace. You know the amazing thing is that many times people that disagree with this war are accused of not supporting the troops. Yet, the troops in combat are often without proper protection and equipment, some even have to buy their own protective gear. Is that support?
Does this Walter Reed scandal show that the current administration cares about the soldiers?
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they have their set of fall guys to take the blame. but everyone knows it's been going on there.
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Questioning the health care system for our troops is unamerican! Haven't you guys caught on yet? Watch as headhunter comes on and says that everyone is fine and that they're all fine and dandy serving amerikaa, when there's evidence to the contrary.
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Questioning the health care system for our troops is unamerican! Haven't you guys caught on yet? Watch as headhunter comes on and says that everyone is fine and that they're all fine and dandy serving amerikaa, when there's evidence to the contrary.
BRUCE demands proof those men didn't put those rats and mold in their own rooms!
NO ONE in the HISTORY OF THE US GOVT would cover up shoddy conditions for our men.
I DEMAND PROOF!
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You would think once back on home turf, they would be seen as heroes and taken care as such.
The government should be ashamed of how they handle our troops.
Yes, U.S. the government uses them to kill brown people in order to steal their black oil.
What's heroic about that?
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Questioning the health care system for our troops is unamerican! Haven't you guys caught on yet? Watch as headhunter comes on and says that everyone is fine and that they're all fine and dandy serving amerikaa, when there's evidence to the contrary.
Hey dumbass..I've got friends in Walter Reed getting treatment....so shut the hell up. Don't u have a brother in the service? The system is fucked up...its fucked up because the US is not at war. the American military is at war and the only people who care are the people who serve. Getting on a web BB and complaining about Bush doesn't mean u care. Congress doesn't care, they will use this to hurt the current administration. This has nothing to do with Repub or Dem. It would have happened no matter who was in charge. Maybe now things will change. I have been doing this for a long time..I know the system is fucked up and I know why in some area's anyway. Alot of the folks who suffered in Reed where NG and AR. They don't know the system and don't know how to get around it as easy as the Active folks. Further young soldiers are not going to speak up if nobody is there to help them. If your legs are blown off..taking no for an answer is not an option. I listened to most of the hearings on C-span..I could see why these people had problems. Nobody has put pressure on the folks at Reed..IE DOD civilians etc..to really give a shit. Hopefully this will help those kids. Stop friggen complaining..go down to a VA hospital and donate an hour of ur time.
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Hey dumbass..I've got friends in Walter Reed getting treatment....so shut the hell up. Don't u have a brother in the service? The system is fucked up...its fucked up because the US is not at war. the American military is at war and the only people who care are the people who serve. Getting on a web BB and complaining about Bush doesn't mean u care. Congress doesn't care, they will use this to hurt the current administration. This has nothing to do with Repub or Dem. It would have happened no matter who was in charge. Maybe now things will change. I have been doing this for a long time..I know the system is fucked up and I know why in some area's anyway. Alot of the folks who suffered in Reed where NG and AR. They don't know the system and don't know how to get around it as easy as the Active folks. Further young soldiers are not going to speak up if nobody is there to help them. If your legs are blown off..taking no for an answer is not an option. I listened to most of the hearings on C-span..I could see why these people had problems. Nobody has put pressure on the folks at Reed..IE DOD civilians etc..to really give a shit. Hopefully this will help those kids. Stop friggen complaining..go down to a VA hospital and donate an hour of ur time.
This probably has quite a bit of fact in it but I also know that if this scandal happened during the reign of a Democratic Administration that conservatives would be up in arms railing against the Liberals for not caring and not taking care of the wouned soldiers.
Also, there's that pesky little problem of conservatives claiming that anyone that doesn't support the war doesn't support the soldiers. There seems to be a little bit of hypocrisy going on.
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I agree..the bottom line is the problem has to get fixed..its not about blaming Bush to make political hay, which I'm afraid will happen. Many of the problems are easy fixes to infrastructure. Fixing the medical system might be tougher. Congress will have to pass laws to make getting disability easier....freeing up cash for said disabilities etc. We don't make all our rules..Congress has oversight and the cash to fix these problems.
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Hey dumbass..I've got friends in Walter Reed getting treatment....so shut the hell up. Don't u have a brother in the service? The system is fucked up...its fucked up because the US is not at war. the American military is at war and the only people who care are the people who serve. Getting on a web BB and complaining about Bush doesn't mean u care. Congress doesn't care, they will use this to hurt the current administration. This has nothing to do with Repub or Dem. It would have happened no matter who was in charge. Maybe now things will change. I have been doing this for a long time..I know the system is fucked up and I know why in some area's anyway. Alot of the folks who suffered in Reed where NG and AR. They don't know the system and don't know how to get around it as easy as the Active folks. Further young soldiers are not going to speak up if nobody is there to help them. If your legs are blown off..taking no for an answer is not an option. I listened to most of the hearings on C-span..I could see why these people had problems. Nobody has put pressure on the folks at Reed..IE DOD civilians etc..to really give a shit. Hopefully this will help those kids. Stop friggen complaining..go down to a VA hospital and donate an hour of ur time.
You are absolutely right. An "old soldier" recently told me this very same thing.
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Hopefully after the politicking is done some real change will be put in place. The fact that we don't support these soldiers more is a disgrace. And I mean all of us regardless of political affiliation.
When my Dad was diagnosed with Lung Cancer he was being treated at the VA in Dedham. As soon as we could we transferred him to Dana Farber. The VA was not even remotely comparable to Dana Farber and Brigham and Women's Hospital.
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Headhunter - Unless and until you accept that rich people are happy to have poor people die to feed their greed, you won't understand why 'war medicine' (includes psych) is such a joke.
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The fact that we don't support these soldiers more is a disgrace. And I mean all of us regardless of political affiliation.
I totally agree.
We should support them by keeping them out of the places where they're being maimed, disfigured, and killed for immoral causes in the name of 'God'.
On a side note, I hope that your father's treatment is going well.
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Morning beach.....Christ I could write for days on how the service is f'ed up but I'm not giving these guys any ammunition. I can see why some of these folks had issues. It took a long time for them to see that the system was not going to work for them. I go into any situation with DOD folks expecting a "no" or "we can't do that" answer. I expect them not to be helpful. Why work when u have been there for 25 years and nobody can fire u. I ask to see a superviser or question their patriotism....as in " Your job is to help me etc". Its amazing how fast 'no'comes out of their mouths. Ask any vet on this board..dealing with the civilian infrastructure sucks. The folks at Reed couldn't be much different.
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Hopefully after the politicking is done some real change will be put in place. The fact that we don't support these soldiers more is a disgrace. And I mean all of us regardless of political affiliation.
When my Dad was diagnosed with Lung Cancer he was being treated at the VA in Dedham. As soon as we could we transferred him to Dana Farber. The VA was not even remotely comparable to Dana Farber and Brigham and Women's Hospital.
We are talking about the best hospitals in the world...If u have to get sick..get sick in Mass. That aside..the VA is unequiped to handle what's coming back from Iraq. I think they are doing what they can but Walter Reed is not the VA. Its part of the Army medical systems and they should have been ready to help these guys.
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Headhunter - Unless and until you accept that rich people are happy to have poor people die to feed their greed, you won't understand why 'war medicine' (includes psych) is such a joke.
I agree to some extent but dude..nobody cares..nobody cares.
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One of the basic problems with Walter Reed is the age of most of the facilities there. Have you guys ever seen that place?
I worked at Bethesda (Navy), which was a futuristic space vehicle by comparison.
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We are talking about the best hospitals in the world...If u have to get sick..get sick in Mass. That aside..the VA is unequiped to handle what's coming back from Iraq. I think they are doing what they can but Walter Reed is not the VA. Its part of the Army medical systems and they should have been ready to help these guys.
This is a good point. I wonder is any hospital really equipped to handle hundreds if not thousands of catosphrophic injuries? Blown off limbs are one thing but brain injuries and facial disfigurements are a whole different category.
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Best part about the Walter Reed scandal? The link to Haliburton.
Gotta love it... ::)
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Morning beach.....Christ I could write for days on how the service is f'ed up but I'm not giving these guys any ammunition. I can see why some of these folks had issues. It took a long time for them to see that the system was not going to work for them. I go into any situation with DOD folks expecting a "no" or "we can't do that" answer. I expect them not to be helpful. Why work when u have been there for 25 years and nobody can fire u. I ask to see a superviser or question their patriotism....as in " Your job is to help me etc". Its amazing how fast 'no'comes out of their mouths. Ask any vet on this board..dealing with the civilian infrastructure sucks. The folks at Reed couldn't be much different.
I hear you Major. I have only been to a VA hospital once. Pretty scary. :-\
How is Kansas?
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I visted a buddy down there in the late 90's not since then. Another fall out from this war is that folks with horrible injuries are surviving. The US military is now at the forefront of heavy trauma medicine..nobody anywhere is prepared for when the bandages come off.
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I totally agree.
We should support them by keeping them out of the places where they're being maimed, disfigured, and killed for immoral causes in the name of 'God'.
On a side note, I hope that your father's treatment is going well.
Thanks for the well wishes. Lung Cancer is a killer though, it took him in about 4 months after diagnoses. I'm still shocked everytime I see someone smoking. Lung Cancer is very tough to beat unless it's caught very very early.
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2,000 of our men and women are double-amputees.
At least two limbs gone.
Mond-boggling.
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and while all of this talking, meeting, investigating is going on, are the troops being seen after properly?
At least a month ago, a woman got on the local radio program complaining that care packages were no longer being accepted at Walter Reed.
Can things for the troops get any worse? You would think once back on home turf, they would be seen as heroes and taken care as such.
The government should be ashamed of how they handle our troops.
Sandra
You will find that the treatment of the troops is based upon the service they are in. The Army stands out as poor when it comes to quality of life. But it isn't the WHOLE government. In the other branches things are much better. You don't hear things like this happening at Wilford Hall (Air Force equilivant to Reed).
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Hey dumbass..I've got friends in Walter Reed getting treatment....so shut the hell up. Don't u have a brother in the service?
That's haider.
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Hopefully after the politicking is done some real change will be put in place. The fact that we don't support these soldiers more is a disgrace. And I mean all of us regardless of political affiliation.
When my Dad was diagnosed with Lung Cancer he was being treated at the VA in Dedham. As soon as we could we transferred him to Dana Farber. The VA was not even remotely comparable to Dana Farber and Brigham and Women's Hospital.
Exactly right the VA isn't great by any means but it is free. That is why it sucks, and a prime example of what would happen if we tried to have free medical for everyone.
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You don't hear things like this happening at Wilford Hall (Air Force equilivant to Reed).
I've always considered Bethesda to be the flagship of military medicine, but a lot of people are really high on Wilford Hall, you are correct.
Walter Reed is in a worse part of town than the others. heh heh
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The fact that Army medical care blows only comes to the forefront now that shot up soldiers are complaining..but the medical care throughout the army sucks balls..from the day you are inducted in to the day you go to a VA hospital the service sucks...you are a drag on the system if you are hurt, ill, or injured...either that or they call you a malingerer---the one quote we always stuck by in the army was..''don't get hurt'', cause they don't give a flyin' shit.
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You will find that the treatment of the troops is based upon the service they are in. The Army stands out as poor when it comes to quality of life. But it isn't the WHOLE government. In the other branches things are much better. You don't hear things like this happening at Wilford Hall (Air Force equilivant to Reed).
The point is, it goes to the basic 6 P's of life "Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance".
Again, there was no preparation for after Sadaam was removed from power.
You would think that after Katrina, all government bueracracies would attempt to get a grip on their performances.
Sandra
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The point is, it goes to the basic 6 P's of life "Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance".
Again, there was no preparation for after Sadaam was removed from power.
You would think that after Katrina, all government bureaucracies would attempt to get a grip on their performances.
Sandra
In the over-weight bureaucracy called the US government, it seems like the only time you see change is when something like this happens.
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
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In the over-weight bureaucracy called the US government, it seems like the only time you see change is when something like this happens.
"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"
That happens anywhere, if you own a restaurant and the health guy says he will be there on friday, you do a major cleaning right? It isn't the normal way things are done except when the inspector comes. Government isn't any different.
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That happens anywhere, if you own a restaurant and the health guy says he will be there on friday, you do a major cleaning right? It isn't the normal way things are done except when the inspector comes. Government isn't any different.
Yes, but there's a big difference between a restaurant and a hospital.
People choose to go to a place to eat. Usually the restaurant will aways be up to certain standard regardless. That's the beauty of capitalism. The Hospital wasn't in competition for patients.
These guys did not have a choice unless they wanted to pay it for themselves.
I certainly hope you are attempting to defend this hospital. We are talking about common decency and correct treatment of people who have made a huge sacrifice for this country and to trivialize it in the category of:
That happens anywhere, if you own a restaurant and the health guy says he will be there on friday, you do a major cleaning right? It isn't the normal way things are done except when the inspector comes. Government isn't any different.
I'm sure you weren't trying to trivialize it or put into a perspective of them having to accept poor treatment because that's just the way things are.
It's disrespectful to both the soldiers and their families.
That hospital and the way it was run was a travesty to the medical profession and disgraceful to the government and insulting to the people who had to get treatment there.
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I'm sure you weren't trying to trivialize it or put into a perspective of them having to accept poor treatment because that's just the way things are.
It's disrespectful to both the soldiers and their families.
That hospital and the way it was run was a travesty to the medical profession and disgraceful to the government and insulting to the people who had to get treatment there.
Walk into one Army hospital that isn't in the same or worse shape. Come here to Ft. Leonard Wood and check it out, You would forget about Reed
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Oh man..Leonard Wood is by far the worst i've been in...I sat there for 3 weeks waiting for my medical records to be found only to find out they were sitting on some docs pile of newspapers...what a mess fort lost in the woods is...
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Walk into one Army hospital that isn't in the same or worse shape. Come here to Ft. Leonard Wood and check it out, You would forget about Reed
that is so too bad.
Why is this MM69?
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that is so too bad.
Why is this MM69?
I don't know really. I am Air Force stationed at an Army post so it is all a shock to me. The Army is by far the worst when dealing with personnel issues. Their quality of life takes a back seat to the mission. All I know is an AF base would never be like this place.
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I don't know really. I am Air Force stationed at an Army post so it is all a shock to me. The Army is by far the worst when dealing with personnel issues. Their quality of life takes a back seat to the mission. All I know is an AF base would never be like this place.
I'm an Air Force Brat. Their hospitals were always great. So it's just an Army thing?
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I'm an Air Force Brat. Their hospitals were always great. So it's just an Army thing?
From my experience yes. You can't imagine the difference
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The pay is the same, but all the cushy military jobs are in the Air Force.
I never understood why the AF had all the coolest, newest facilities (compare Air Force base housing to the Army and Navy, for example), but that's just the way things were. Almost makes ya wonder why anyone would enlist in the Army instead of the Air Force.
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The pay is the same, but all the cushy military jobs are in the Air Force.
I never understood why the AF had all the coolest, newest facilities (compare Air Force base housing to the Army and Navy, for example), but that's just the way things were. Almost makes ya wonder why anyone would enlist in the Army instead of the Air Force.
Simple really, the Army is about 70/30, 70% weren't accepted in the Air Force because of lack of education and the other 30% would have been accepted but are in the Army out of family pride/tradition