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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: militarymuscle69 on March 26, 2007, 10:02:43 AM
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Hey Jag, guess the Army didn't turn a blind eye to these infractions.....I can't post a link because it came from the Post CG in an e-mail. Not only did the Army punish these troops, they make sure everyone knows their name!
Guilty of Rape
Sgt. 1st Class Felix Gonzalez Jr., Company C, 554th Engineer Battalion, was convicted March 1, of one count of rape. In addition, pursuant to his pleas of guilty, the court found Gonzalez guilty of indecent assault, assault consummated by a battery and maltreatment. A military judge sentenced Gonzalez to reduction to the grade of E1, confinement for ten years and a dishonorable discharge.
An eighteen year veteran, Gonzalez was found guilty of raping a 17-year-old twice, sexually assaulting a woman who was his fiancée at the time, physically assaulting the wife of a Soldier and maltreating one of his female Soldiers while he was her platoon sergeant. The first three incidents occurred at Fort Leonard Wood in 2002 and 2003. The last incident occurred in Korea in 2005.
Aggravated assault
Pvt. Kenneth Carey Jr., Company F, 35th Engineer Battalion, pled guilty during a special court-martial, March 2. Carey was convicted of one count of provoking words and gestures and one count of aggravated assault. A military judge sentenced Carey to reduction to the grade of E1, forfeiture of two-thirds of his pay for eight months, confinement for six months and a bad conduct discharge.
In his eighth week of Advanced Individual Training, Carey was involved in a verbal altercation in which he leaned into the face of a fellow Soldier in training and used provoking language. He then struck the Soldier twice in the face with the butt stock of his M16, causing deep cuts and bruising above the Soldier's eye and on the side of his head.
At the announcement of the sentence, the military judge reduced Carey's sentence from eight months to only six months because of evidence that noncommissioned officers from another company had repeatedly ridiculed Carey in front of other Soldiers. An investigation is pending into the allegations of those NCOs' misconduct.
Violation of post regulations
Staff Sgt. Travis Dauer, Company D, 82nd Chemical Battalion, was convicted during a general court-martial, Feb. 26, of four counts of violating Fort Leonard Wood Regulation 350-6 and one count of attempted obstruction of justice. A military judge sentenced Dauer to reduction to the grade of E1, confinement for two years, and a bad-conduct discharge.
A six-year veteran and a former noncommissioned officer of the year for the Chemical Corps, Dauer assumed drill sergeant duties in Co. D, June 2006. He was accused of having had sex with four different trainees and inappropriately fraternized with them between July and November 2006. He was a drill sergeant for all of the trainees involved, and they were assigned to his basic training company. He was also the platoon sergeant for two of them. All four of the trainees were in Co. D during one of Dauer's first two cycles of training as a drill sergeant.
Dauer's misconduct with female Soldiers in training occurred in a variety of locations, a unit supply room, the unit laundry room, his truck, a hospital room, a hotel room and his home. Furthermore, Dauer's misconduct continued after being suspended from duties in the wake of the investigation into his criminal activity, after charges were read to him and after he was arraigned on charges before a military judge.
His attempted obstruction of justice was for trying to delete e-mails off of one of the trainee's accounts after the investigation had begun.
ROT below will be in Guidon 29 March
Convicted of adultery
Staff Sgt. Willie Myles, Company A, 84th Chemical Battalion, pursuant to his pleas of guilty, was convicted by a special court-martial March 19. Myles was convicted of four counts of violating Fort Leonard Wood Regulation 350-6, one count of adultery, one count of dereliction of duty, one count of disobeying a commissioned officer and one count of false official statement.
A military judge sentenced Myles to reduction to the grade of E-3, confinement for seven months and a bad-conduct discharge.
In May 2006, during his 20th month as a drill sergeant in Co. A, 82nd Chemical Battalion, Myles began a personal relationship with a trainee in violation of Fort Leonard Wood Regulation 350-6. The trainee was a Soldier in Myles's company. In June and July, Myles, who was married, had sex with the trainee, twice in the barracks while he was on duty and once at a hotel off-post. On one occasion in the barracks, he had another trainee who was on fireguard duty serve as a look-out so he wouldn't get caught; on the other occasion, he disarmed the alarm system and diverted the fireguards who were on duty in order to meet privately with the trainee. The judge also convicted Myles for continuing to contact the trainee after his commander gave him a no contact order and for lying to the investigating officer about his relationship with the trainee.
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The military justice system is very efficient IMO. They don't play around.
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The military justice system is very efficient IMO. They don't play around.
Last week Jag said the military turned a blind eye to rape...Tell that to SFC Gonzalez.....
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Last week Jag said the military turned a blind eye to rape...Tell that to SFC Gonzalez.....
Jag doesn't know squat about the military. She is an okay lady, but is really out of her league when it comes to discussing military matters.
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Jag doesn't know squat about the military. She is an okay lady, but is really out of her league when it comes to discussing military matters.
I wish she was the only one...lol..240, Ribo and Beserker don't know much more than she does and they are Americans
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I wish she was the only one...lol..240, Ribo and Beserker don't know much more than she does and they are Americans
True about 240 and Ribo, but I think Berserker served?
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True about 240 and Ribo, but I think Berserker served?
I'm not sure...if he did I apologize but I have heard him say some silly stuff. I don't know how long he served either. When I was a young troop I thought I knew all about how the Air Force worked but it wasn't until I got to the top that I really see how it goes
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I haven't served.
But unlike many of those of you who have, I want us out of Baghdad.
Guard the oil, the border, pipeline, and bases. But stop standing in a shooting gallery.
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The military justice system is very efficient IMO. They don't play around.
Right, they just leave out the 'justice' part and they're all set.
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Re: Who thinks military condones immoral behavior?
Of course the military doesn't condone immoral behavior.
The question is, does the military allow or turn their heads to it in certain situations?
Do they cover up incidents that potentially become bad PR or 60 minute pieces?
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Do they cover up incidents that potentially become bad PR or 60 minute pieces?
Absolutely and without hesitation.
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Right, they just leave out the 'justice' part and they're all set.
No they don't.
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No they don't.
BB, has the military covered up any incidents in the past 5 years?
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BB, has the military covered up any incidents in the past 5 years?
Too early in the morning for dumb questions 240.
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Too early in the morning for dumb questions 240.
I don't know why it's a dumb question.
I do know why it's a question you'd avoid - you either have to say 'yes' which would nullify your statement that we don't sometimes leave out the justice part. Or you would say 'no' to a question and be painfully and obviously wrong.
The typical BB move here is to insult the question and run from it. nice ;)
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Re: Who thinks military condones immoral behavior?
Of course the military doesn't condone immoral behavior.
The question is, does the military allow or turn their heads to it in certain situations?
Do they cover up incidents that potentially become bad PR or 60 minute pieces?
Ask the guys in the post if the Army looked the other way...this is a weekly report at Ft. Wood, Hundreds a year kicked out. Is there bound to be one or two that slide through, of course. But to say that the Army condones rape like Jag claimed...come on
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I don't know why it's a dumb question.
I do know why it's a question you'd avoid - you either have to say 'yes' which would nullify your statement that we don't sometimes leave out the justice part. Or you would say 'no' to a question and be painfully and obviously wrong.
The typical BB move here is to insult the question and run from it. nice ;)
It's a dumb question because it has nothing to do with whether the military justice system is highly efficient. But you don't know a thing about the military, which is why you tried to change the subject.
I try to avoid answering your dumb questions, because you are disingenuous. You don't ask questions because you like to engage people or truly want to understand someone's position, you ask questions to try and change the subject when your facts get blown up.
And you're crying about being insulted? Puh-leaze. ::) That's about 90 percent of what you do on this board. And note how I called your question dumb, not you personally.
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Ask the guys in the post if the Army looked the other way...this is a weekly report at Ft. Wood, Hundreds a year kicked out. Is there bound to be one or two that slide through, of course. But to say that the Army condones rape like Jag claimed...come on
I agree with you. that's stupid to think the army condones rape.
However, in the mists of an embarrassing situation the Army wouldn't be above trying to minimize the PR damage?
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What about torture? They torture prisoners...
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What about torture? They torture prisoners...
They don't torture...don't tell me you are another "don't make them sit in a cold room" pussy
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I agree with you. that's stupid to think the army condones rape.
However, in the mists of an embarrassing situation the Army wouldn't be above trying to minimize the PR damage?
I don't know dude, pick up an Army times or Air Force times someday (neither is operated by a branch of service) and you will see tons of embarrassing info.
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I agree with you. that's stupid to think the army condones rape.
However, in the mists of an embarrassing situation the Army wouldn't be above trying to minimize the PR damage?
What organization wouldn't? They have public affairs officers who are just like publicists. Nothing wrong with damage control, so long as they aren't being dishonest.
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Beach watch what u say about PA guys :P......They are talking heads for folks who are watching their own asses. Its like this everywhere. By and large the UCMJ works well..better then in civilain law.....its more cut and dry. People slide...they get covered by friends etc..just like every place else. We held to a higher standard and most live up to that standard. Its funny watching people taking shots at the military..which has become more common here as we "seem to be losing". Don't think for one instance that this generation is going to suffer the same shit that the guys in Vietnam did if the country pulls that crap again. These kids will be running this country just like after every war we have fought. The strong minded will rise to the top. They won't forget how they are treated......
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What organization wouldn't? They have public affairs officers who are just like publicists. Nothing wrong with damage control, so long as they aren't being dishonest.
What about cover ups?
Do you believe the military, has in the past, attempted to cover things up that might potentially harm them PR-wise?
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Beach watch what u say about PA guys :P......They are talking heads for folks who are watching their own asses. Its like this everywhere. By and large the UCMJ works well..better then in civilain law.....its more cut and dry. People slide...they get covered by friends etc..just like every place else. We held to a higher standard and most live up to that standard. Its funny watching people taking shots at the military..which has become more common here as we "seem to be losing". Don't think for one instance that this generation is going to suffer the same shit that the guys in Vietnam did if the country pulls that crap again. These kids will be running this country just like after every war we have fought. The strong minded will rise to the top. They won't forget how they are treated......
You're right Headhunter. I know a couple PA guys (actually one retired male, one active duty female).
The UCMJ and military justice system aren't perfect, but it works very well. Sure you have "command influence," etc., but overall it is very efficient.
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What about cover ups?
Do you believe the military, has in the past, attempted to cover things up that might potentially harm them PR-wise?
They just did in the Pat Tillman matter. They aren't the first, or the last, to try and cover up bad PR.
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What organization wouldn't? They have public affairs officers who are just like publicists. Nothing wrong with damage control, so long as they aren't being dishonest.
Is covering up an incident or partially revealing facts dishonest in your opinion?
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Is covering up an incident or partially revealing facts dishonest in your opinion?
As I tell my kids, a half truth is a lie.
I'm not sure why the officers mishandled matters in the Pat Tillman matter. Maybe they were trying to protect the family? Maybe they were just covering their own okoles? Maybe they thought the mission would be compromised? Don't know.
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As I tell my kids, a half truth is a lie.
I'm not sure why the officers mishandled matters in the Pat Tillman matter. Maybe they were trying to protect the family? Maybe they were just covering their own okoles? Maybe they thought the mission would be compromised? Don't know.
But as you said they aren't the first or last.
They just did in the Pat Tillman matter. They aren't the first, or the last, to try and cover up bad PR.
So is covering up immoral?
I tend to put it in it's proper perspective: damage control.
But i wouldn't allow with my children.
hmmmmm
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But as you said they aren't the first or last.
So is covering up immoral?
I tend to put it in it's proper perspective: damage control.
But i wouldn't allow with my children.
hmmmmm
Is "damage control" immoral? No. Is lying to avoid exposing your own mistakes at the expense of giving a family the truth immoral? Yes.
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Is "damage control" immoral? No. Is lying to avoid exposing your own mistakes at the expense of giving a family the truth immoral? Yes.
so you are saying covering up is immoral?
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so you are saying covering up is immoral?
No. Depends on what the cover up is. I just gave you one example. What is your point? I feel like I'm being cross-examined. :)
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It's a dumb question because it has nothing to do with whether the military justice system is highly efficient.
It's 'efficient' because most of the defendants are convicted without due process.
And I'm not talking only about high profile courts-martial, I'm talking about every level of so-called military 'justice'.
It's laughable, at best, and for you to defend it as anything other than that certainly compromises your credibility on this topic.
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Nothing wrong with damage control, so long as they aren't being dishonest.
But what about the fact that so much of what they say is dishonest?
Doesn't it bother you at all that military leaders can lie so easily and with such conviction?
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It's 'efficient' because most of the defendants are convicted without due process.
And I'm not talking only about high profile courts-martial, I'm talking about every level of so-called military 'justice'.
It's laughable, at best, and for you to defend it as anything other than that certainly compromises your credibility.
lol (yes I'm laughing). So I cannot defend the military justice system without compromising my credibility? Who are you, 240? :)
I don't have a problem defending the military justice system. For you to say "most of the defendants are convicted without due process" is actually laughable. So, you're saying most defendants don't: (a) have a trial, (b) have a judge, (c) get tried by a jury or judge alone at the defendant's option, (c) have a military-appointed defense attorney, and (d) have a right of appeal to at least two appellate courts? Oh, and that the CG doesn't have the right to commute a sentence handed down by the court? (At least that's my recollection.) Sounds like due process to me.
It just happens a lot faster than the civilian side.
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But what about the fact that so much of what they say is dishonest?
Doesn't it bother you at all that military leaders can lie so easily and with such conviction?
I don't have any basis to conclude that "much of what they say is dishonest." How do you reach that conclusion?
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I don't have any basis to conclude that "much of what they say is dishonest." How do you reach that conclusion?
Four years active duty. :D
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Four years active duty. :D
O.K. I have four years of active duty too. I have a different opinion. :) You’re not smarting over an Article 15 are you? :D
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Perhaps he is..the UCMJ is pretty cut and dry...NJP is a whole other matter. If Tre got bounced, and I've seen plenty good folks get bounced I'd like to hear his story. On the Tilman thing......I'll PM u beach but..they friggen blew it..no question about it. No excuese at all. I feel bad for the family.
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Perhaps he is..the UCMJ is pretty cut and dry...NJP is a whole other matter. If Tre got bounced, and I've seen plenty good folks get bounced I'd like to hear his story. On the Tilman thing......I'll PM u beach but..they friggen blew it..no question about it. No excuese at all. I feel bad for the family.
So the military lied?
Was what they did immoral?
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So the military lied?
Was what they did immoral?
Not at all. Some of the officers screwed up. The IG smoked them out and recommended punishment. So some individuals made a mistake, but the Army is holding them accountable.
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Four years active duty. :D
4 years?? LMAO!!! In my first 4 years I thought I knew all about the military to, you don't see what it is all about until you make it to the top...talk about lacking credibility!!!