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Getbig Female Info Boards => Open Talk for Girl Discussion => Topic started by: Butterbean on April 08, 2007, 04:14:56 PM
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In light of some recent threads....
(from hiddenhurt.co.uk)
Warning Signs of an Abusive Personality
It is sometimes possible to predict the likelihood of the person you are currently or are about to become involved with being abusive. Below are a list of behaviours and traits which are common in abusive personalities. These are commonly known as Warning Signs.
While not all abusive people show the same signs, or display the tendencies to the same extent, if several behavioural traits are present, there is a strong tendency toward abusiveness. Generally, the more signs are present, the greater the likelihood of violence. In some cases, an abuser may have only a couple of behavioural traits that can be recognized, but they are very exaggerated (e.g. extreme jealousy over ridiculous things).
Often the abuser will initially try to explain his/her behaviour as signs of his/her love and concern, and the victim may be flattered at first; as time goes on, the behaviours become more severe and serve to dominate, control and manipulate the victim.
Related Pages:
Mr Wrong or Mr Right
The Dominator
Jealousy
At the beginning of a relationship, an abuser will always say the jealousy is a sign of love. He/she may question you about whom you have spoken to or seen during the day, may accuse you of flirting, or be jealous of time you spend with family, friends, children or hobbies which do not include him/her. As the jealousy progresses, he/she may call you frequently during the day or drop by unexpectedly. He may be unhappy about or refuse to let you work for fear you'll meet someone else, check the car mileage or ask friends to keep an eye on you. Jealousy is not proof of love, it is a sign of insecurity and possessiveness.
Controlling Behaviour
Controlling behaviour is often disguised or excused as concern. Concern for your safety, your emotional or mental health, the need to use your time well, or to make sensible decisions. Your abuser may be angry or upset if you are 'late' coming back from work, shopping, visiting friends, etc., even if you told him/her you would be later back than usual. Your abuser may question you closely about where you were, whom you spoke to, the content of every conversation you held, or why you did something he/she was not involved in. As this behaviour gets worse, you may not be allowed to make personal decisions about the house, clothing, going to church or how you spend your time or money or even make you ask for permission to leave the house or room. Alternately, he/she may theoretically allow you your own decisions, but penalise you for making the wrong ones. Concern for our loved ones to a certain extent is normal - trying to control their every move is not.
Quick Involvement
Many victims of abuse dated or knew their abuser for less than six months before they were engaged or living together. The abuser will often claim 'love at first sight', that you are 'made for each other', or that you are the only person whom he could ever talk to so openly, feel so at home with, could understand him so well. He/she may tell you that they have never loved anyone so much or felt so loved by anyone so much before, when you have really only known each other for a short amount of time. He/she needs someone desperately, and will pressure you to commit to him/her or make love before you feel the relationship has reached 'that stage'. He/she may also make you feel guilty for not committing yourself to him/her.
Unrealistic Expectations
The abuser may expects you to be the perfect husband, wife, mother, father, lover, and friend. He/she is very dependent on you for all his/her needs, and may tell you he/she can fulfil all your needs as lover, friend, and companion. Statements such as: 'lf you love me, I'm all you need.', 'You are all I need.' are common. Your abuser may expect you to provide everything for him/her emotionally, practically, financially or spiritually, and then blame you for not being perfect or living up to expectation.
Isolation
The abuser may try to curtail your social interaction. He/she may prevent you from spending time with your friends or family and demand that you only go places 'together'. He/she may accuse you of being 'tied to your mother's apron strings', not be committed to the relationship, or view people who are your personal friends as 'causing trouble' or 'trying to put a wedge' between you. He/she may want to live in the country without a phone, not let you use the car, stop you from working or gaining further education or qualifications.
Blame-shifting for Problems
Very rarely will an abusive personality accept responsibility for any negative situation or problem. If they are unemployed, can't hold down a job, were thrown out of college or University or fall out with their family, it is always someone else's fault, be it the boss, the government, or their mother. They may feel that someone is always doing them wrong, or out to get him. He/she may make a mistakes and then blame you for upsetting him/her or preventing him/her from doing as they wished to.
Blame-shifting for Feelings
The abuser will deny feelings stem from within him/her but see them as reactions to your behaviour or attitude toward him/her. He/she may tell you that 'you make me mad', 'you're hurting me by not doing what I ask', or that he/she cannot help feeling mad, upset, etc. Feelings may be used to manipulate you, i.e. 'I would not be angry if you didn't ...' Positive emotions will often also be seen as originating outside the abuser, but are more difficult to detect. Statements such as 'You make me happy' or 'You make me feel good about myself' are also signs that the abuser feels you are responsible for his sense of well-being. Either way, you become in his/her mind the cause of good and bad feelings and are therefore responsible for his/her emotional well-being and happiness. Consequently, you are also to blame for any negative feelings such as anger, upset or depression.
Hypersensitivity
Most abusers have very low self-esteem and are therefore easily insulted or upset. They may claim their feelings are 'hurt' when they are really angry, or take unrelated comments as personal attacks. They may perceive normal set-backs (having to work additional hours, being asked to help out, receiving a parking fine, etc.) as grave personal injustices. They may view your preference for something which differs from their own as a criticism of their taste and therefore themselves (e.g. blue wallpaper rather than pink, etc.).
Cruelty to Animals
The abuser may punishes animals brutally, be insensitive to their pain or suffering, or neglect to care for the animals to the point of cruelty, e.g. not feeding them all day, leaving them in areas he/she knows will cause them suffering or distress. There is a strong correlation between cruelty to animals and domestic violence which is still being researched.
Cruelty to Children
The abusers unrealistic expectations of their partner are often mirrored in their attitude toward children. He/she will think of children as 'small adults' and blame the children for not being responsible, having common sense or understanding. He/she may expect children to be capable far beyond their ability (e.g. is angry with a two-year old for wetting their pants or being sick on the carpet, waking at night or being upset by nightmares) and will often meet out punishments for 'naughtiness' the child could not be aware of. Abusers may tease children until they cry, or punish children way beyond what could be deemed appropriate. He/she may not want children to eat at the table, expect them to stay quiet, or keep to their room all evening while he/she is at home. Since abusers want all your attention themselves, they resent your spending time with the children or any normal demands and needs the children may have. As above (cruelty to animals), there is a very strong link between Domestic Violence and Child Abuse.
'Playful' use of Force in Sex
He/she may pressurise you to agree to forceful or violent acts during sex, or want to act out fantasies where you are helpless. A male abuser may let you know that the idea of "rape" excites him. He/she may show little concern about whether you want to have intercourse and uses sulking or anger to manipulate you into compliance. Starting sex while you are sleeping, demanding sex when you are ill or tired, or refusing any form of intimacy unless you are willing to go 'all the way' can all be signs that he/she could be sexually abusive or sexually violent.
Rigid Gender Roles
Abusers usually believe in stereotypical gender roles. A man may expect a woman to serve him; stay at home, obey him in all things - even things that are criminal in nature. A male abuser will often see women as inferior to men, more stupid, unable to be a whole person without a relationship. Female abusers may expect the man to provide for them entirely, shift the responsibility for her well-being onto him or heckle him as being 'not a real man' if he shows any weakness or emotion.
Verbal Abuse
In addition to saying things that are meant to be cruel and hurtful, either in public or in private, this can include degrading remarks or running down any accomplishments. Often the abuser will tell you that you are 'stupid', could not manage without him/her. He/she may keep you up all night to 'sort this out once and for all' or even wake you at night to continue to verbally abuse you. The abuser may even say kindly things to your face, but speak badly about you to friends and family.
Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde
Very rarely do abusers conform to the stereotypical image of a constantly harsh, nasty or violent person, either in public or in private. More frequently the abuser portrays a perfectly normal and pleasant picture to the outside world (often they have responsible jobs or are respected and important members of the local community or Church) and reserves the abuse for you in the privacy of your own home. Nor are abusers always overtly abusive or cruel, but can display apparent kindness and consideration. This Jeckyll and Hyde tendency of the abuser serves to further confuse the victim, while protecting themselves from any form of suspicion from outsiders. Many victims describe "sudden" changes in mood - one minute nice and the next explosive or hysterical, or one minute happy and the next minute sad. This does not indicate some special "mental problem" but are typical of abusive personalities, and related to other characteristics such as hypersensitivity.
Drink or Substance Abuse
While neither drinking or the use of drugs are signs of an abusive personality, heavy drinking or drug abuse may be a warning sign and do increase the risks of abuse, especially violence, taking place. Often an abusive person will blame the drink for his/her abuse. However, a person who, knowing there is a risk he/she could be violent when drinking or on drugs, chooses to get drunk or high, is in effect choosing to abuse. The link between substance abuse and domestic abuse is still being researched, and it is apparent that while neither alcohol nor drugs necessarily cause violence, they do increase the risk of violence.
History of Battering or Sexual Violence
Very rarely is abuse or violence a one-off event: a batterer will beat any woman he is with; a sexually abusive person will be abusive toward all his intimate partners. Situational circumstances do not make a person an abusive personality. Sometimes friends or family may try to warn you about the abuser. Sometimes the abuser may tell you himself/herself that he/she has hit or sexually assaulted someone in the past. However, they may further go on to explain that "she made me do it by ..." or in some other way not take responsibility and shift the blame on to the victim. They may tell you that it won't happen with you because "you love them enough to prevent it" or "you won't be stupid enough to wind me up that much". Once again, this is denying their own responsibility for the abuse, and shifting the responsibility for the relationship to remain abuse-free on to you. Past violence is one of the strongest pointers that abuse will occur.
Threatening Violence
This would obviously include any threat of physical force such as "If you speak to him/her again, I'll kill you", or "If any wife of mine acted like John's did, I'd give her a right seeing to". But can also include less obvious threats, such as "If you leave me, I will kill myself". Threats are designed to manipulate and control you, to keep you in your place and prevent you making your own decisions. Most people do not threaten their mates, but an abuser will excuse this behaviour by saying "everybody talks like that.", maintaining he/she is only saying this because the relationship or you are so important to him/her, tell you you're "over-sensitive" for being upset by such threats, or obviously want to hurt him/her.
Breaking or Striking Objects
The abusive person may break your treasured object, beat his/her fists on the table or chair or throw something at or past you. Breaking your things is often used as a punishment for some imagined misdeed on your part. Sometimes it will be justified by saying that now that you are with him/her, you don't need these items any more. Breaking your possessions also has the effect of de-personalising you, denying you your individuality or literally trying to break links to your past. Beating items of furniture or throwing objects will often be justified by saying you wound him/her up so much they lost control, once again shifting the blame for this behaviour on to you, but is actually used to terrorise you into submission. Only very immature or abusive people beat on objects in the presence of other people in order to threaten or intimidate them.
Any Force during an Argument
An abuser may physically restrain you from leaving the room, lash out at you with his/her hand or another object, pin you against a wall or shout 'right in your face'. Basically any form of force used during an argument can be a sign that actual violence is a strong possibility.
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The above list was prepared with reference to
A Guide to recognizing Behaviors of Abusive persons, Cheektowaga Police Department, (link no longer active - sorry!)
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Passion and emotion can be powerful things, but sometimes, it's more important to THINK than to FEEL. (as my friend Mandy so eloquently put it).
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Great thread!!!!!
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Every line is true. :'(
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Every line is true. :'(
Sad as it may seem, I am inclined to agree with you. Ladies, please take note of this and beware of who you chose to date or get involved with.
PB
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Hogging the bathroom is another I think
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I agree every line is spot on.
Also look for a change in the woman's appearance. If she was at first wearing sundresses and heels, had her hair done, head held high, and then after seeing the dude she is only wearing jeans, hair not done, and her head is held down.
I knew one woman who had beautiful dreads, flirty personality, wore heels, and nice wrap shirts.
After not seeing her for a few months, I saw her again, her dreads were pathetic (if you can call them dreads), a "dead" look in her eye, sweat pants and t-shirt were her staple.
Sure enough, she was (and still in) in a abusive and controlling relationship. In which this "man" hit her the day after he proposed to her.
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um...you know what I am gonna refer to...so I won't. Just get out while you can.
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Very accurate!
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there is circumstances where somebody can be abusive in one relationship, and absolutley different in another. sometimes it's just being with the wrong person. someone that can bring out alot of ugly things about you & nothing really positive. it's like another form of abuse where the wife beats down mentally, spiritually, & the morality of the husband. I do not condone & say it's ok for the husband to be abusive & realitate back, but I have been in there, and know how helpless I felt until I fought back. thats when the guilt & knowing something far worse and terrible just happened.
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You are right Blain. There are a lot of men that are abused as well, some even physically.
What is wrong with people? :'(
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THANKS FOR POSTING. I Wish a couple of my friends had seen a thread like this years ago. It might have saved us all some grief. I really detest abusers, and I'm very active in the movement to get tougher sentences for these pieces of scum.
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there is circumstances where somebody can be abusive in one relationship, and absolutley different in another. sometimes it's just being with the wrong person. someone that can bring out alot of ugly things about you & nothing really positive. it's like another form of abuse where the wife beats down mentally, spiritually, & the morality of the husband. I do not condone & say it's ok for the husband to be abusive & realitate back, but I have been in there, and know how helpless I felt until I fought back. thats when the guilt & knowing something far worse and terrible just happened.
I have a friend who had a boyfriend who would hit her. But she would verbally and emotionally and mentally abuse him until he did. I don't excuse his behavior but I don't excuse hers either. They eventually married and have both grown a lot. She went on anti-depressants years ago and there has been no physical abuse since then. IMO, they don't fit the "Signs of an abusive personality" posted above.
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Verbal abuse is just as bad as physical abuse too. It will definately scar someone for the rest of their lives. Either one is painful and damaging to the person on the recieving end.
PB
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Abuse can take many forms. Always chronic. When a person gets angry over an incident, say infidelity, that is not abuse. When normally that person is easy going and quite supportive, that is not abuse. But when a person chronically lies, and manipulates another, for the sole purpose of self adoration and selfishness. That is a form of abuse. When a person chroniaclly infiltrates another's life, to get attention, and keep that person on a string, leading them on, day after day, week after week, pretending that That they will be together, and never actually having that intention....that is abuse. Emotional abuse is terrible.
I wonder, when the person being abused finally retaliates.....Is that abuse? I think not.
i agree with you on some of this. i was that person who was mentally abused but even after 13 years of being away from this relationship, my retaliation still feels wrong. i had decisions and choices to make. i feel that i took the easier way out in working with that relationship. i could have simply walked out, but chose to try and make it work. it always ended up in mental abuse by her, followed by a physical confrontation to end the conflict by me. i wasn't strong enough and mature enough to just open the door and walk out. to this day, i can still see the acts of violence and rage. i can still see the pain and all of that was associated with it. i really wish that part of my life never happened.
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I dont undersand why nice women tolerate cheating husbands?
I'd call that abuse, esp a couple of guys Ive worked with who just seemed to see how far they can go.
Unbelievable how far. And they'd take him back. Neither of these 2 were violent (I dont think) but just the worst tail chasers. Sad to watch the one girl go all to pieces over and over.. prolly still is.
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I dont undersand why nice women tolerate cheating husbands?
I'd call that abuse, esp a couple of guys Ive worked with who just seemed to see how far they can go.
Unbelievable how far. And they'd take him back. Neither of these 2 were violent (I dont think) but just the worst tail chasers. Sad to watch the one girl go all to pieces over and over.. prolly still is.
The same reason they tolerate physical and/or emotional abuses.
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some basic hints:
Best predictor for future behavior is past behavior.
Agression is generally not domain specific; ergo when he's aggressive on the job or on the sportsfield he will probably be agressive in a domestic setting.
and why? anti-social personality disorder mostly, they generally lack certain neurological activition in moral/emotional situations. It's like they have no conscience.
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some basic hints:
Best predictor for future behavior is past behavior.
Agression is generally not domain specific; ergo when he's aggressive on the job or on the sportsfield he will probably be agressive in a domestic setting.
and why? anti-social personality disorder mostly, they generally lack certain neurological activition in moral/emotional situations. It's like they have no conscience.
Surely that wouldn't describe anyone who might post on GetBig!?!? :o ;) ;D
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I dont undersand why nice women tolerate cheating husbands?
I'd call that abuse, esp a couple of guys Ive worked with who just seemed to see how far they can go.
Unbelievable how far. And they'd take him back. Neither of these 2 were violent (I dont think) but just the worst tail chasers. Sad to watch the one girl go all to pieces over and over.. prolly still is.
i think this is the worst type of abuse, I really cant imagine anything more painful then my wife going to another man.
the reason people put up with it (from what i have seen) is they blame themselves, and tell themseves that its something they need to fix.
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i think this is the worst type of abuse, I really cant imagine anything more painful then my wife going to another man.
the reason people put up with it (from what i have seen) is they blame themselves, and tell themseves that its something they need to fix.
It is something they need to fix, but for future women. They need to kick that bastard between the legs as hard as they can, watch him fall to the floor, tell him to start thinking with his brain instead of his now swollen balls. Then let him watch you pack your shit and leave. >:(
Did I mention that I don't put up with cheaters. ;D
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It is something they need to fix, but for future women. They need to kick that bastard between the legs as hard as they can, watch him fall to the floor, tell him to start thinking with his brain instead of his now swollen balls. Then let him watch you pack your shit and leave. >:(
Did I mention that I don't put up with cheaters. ;D
I like you.
when I rule the world your death will be quick and painless...
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I dunno gang... I can agree with these on the surface, but they are very general, and don't really work in every situation.
For instance... Breaking objects... Don't know about you ladies, but I've seen many a thing fly across the room due to anger from an ex... She just didn't know what else to do and needed to release some emotion.
Shouting in your face? I mean, isn't that what an argument usually is? I've been yelled at so many times I can't count them.
Starting sex while you're asleep? I thought chicks liked that actually... I've had ex's who always would rather me wake them up to get some then not get any at all.
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Hey STella,
Thanks for posting that! I have dealt with soooo many victims of domestic violence. They think they are the only one in the world dealing with those issues, they believe that they are "making" their significant other abuse them. They are ashamed to report it to their family, friends, etc . because the man or woman has put on a perfect front for others, and feel no one will believe them. Then they are slowly detached from their support system, then they are at the mercy of the abuser. I have seen this so many times! Please if anyone reading this knows of somebody going through this or is going through it themselves, there is help just a keyboard away. PM me and I'll connect you to the people you need to talk to. This happens to men as well as women. Do not be afraid to ask for help, it is here!
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I like you.
when I rule the world your death will be quick and painless...
Oh? You plan on taking me when I'm not looking? ;)
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some basic hints:
Best predictor for future behavior is past behavior.
Agression is generally not domain specific; ergo when he's aggressive on the job or on the sportsfield he will probably be agressive in a domestic setting.
I think this may be right in most cases, but I know in mine it wasn't. My husband was very aggressive outside of the house, like if some guy messed with him, my husband would quite quickly punch him in the face. But with me, he never even raised his voice, and would not have dreamed of hitting me. I am sure you are right though, he was probably an exception to the rule.
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In light of some recent threads....
(from hiddenhurt.co.uk)
Warning Signs of an Abusive Personality
It is sometimes possible to predict the likelihood of the person you are currently or are about to become involved with being abusive. Below are a list of behaviours and traits which are common in abusive personalities. These are commonly known as Warning Signs.
While not all abusive people show the same signs, or display the tendencies to the same extent, if several behavioural traits are present, there is a strong tendency toward abusiveness. Generally, the more signs are present, the greater the likelihood of violence. In some cases, an abuser may have only a couple of behavioural traits that can be recognized, but they are very exaggerated (e.g. extreme jealousy over ridiculous things).
Often the abuser will initially try to explain his/her behaviour as signs of his/her love and concern, and the victim may be flattered at first; as time goes on, the behaviours become more severe and serve to dominate, control and manipulate the victim.
Related Pages:
Mr Wrong or Mr Right
The Dominator
Jealousy
At the beginning of a relationship, an abuser will always say the jealousy is a sign of love. He/she may question you about whom you have spoken to or seen during the day, may accuse you of flirting, or be jealous of time you spend with family, friends, children or hobbies which do not include him/her. As the jealousy progresses, he/she may call you frequently during the day or drop by unexpectedly. He may be unhappy about or refuse to let you work for fear you'll meet someone else, check the car mileage or ask friends to keep an eye on you. Jealousy is not proof of love, it is a sign of insecurity and possessiveness.
Controlling Behaviour
Controlling behaviour is often disguised or excused as concern. Concern for your safety, your emotional or mental health, the need to use your time well, or to make sensible decisions. Your abuser may be angry or upset if you are 'late' coming back from work, shopping, visiting friends, etc., even if you told him/her you would be later back than usual. Your abuser may question you closely about where you were, whom you spoke to, the content of every conversation you held, or why you did something he/she was not involved in. As this behaviour gets worse, you may not be allowed to make personal decisions about the house, clothing, going to church or how you spend your time or money or even make you ask for permission to leave the house or room. Alternately, he/she may theoretically allow you your own decisions, but penalise you for making the wrong ones. Concern for our loved ones to a certain extent is normal - trying to control their every move is not.
Quick Involvement
Many victims of abuse dated or knew their abuser for less than six months before they were engaged or living together. The abuser will often claim 'love at first sight', that you are 'made for each other', or that you are the only person whom he could ever talk to so openly, feel so at home with, could understand him so well. He/she may tell you that they have never loved anyone so much or felt so loved by anyone so much before, when you have really only known each other for a short amount of time. He/she needs someone desperately, and will pressure you to commit to him/her or make love before you feel the relationship has reached 'that stage'. He/she may also make you feel guilty for not committing yourself to him/her.
Unrealistic Expectations
The abuser may expects you to be the perfect husband, wife, mother, father, lover, and friend. He/she is very dependent on you for all his/her needs, and may tell you he/she can fulfil all your needs as lover, friend, and companion. Statements such as: 'lf you love me, I'm all you need.', 'You are all I need.' are common. Your abuser may expect you to provide everything for him/her emotionally, practically, financially or spiritually, and then blame you for not being perfect or living up to expectation.
Isolation
The abuser may try to curtail your social interaction. He/she may prevent you from spending time with your friends or family and demand that you only go places 'together'. He/she may accuse you of being 'tied to your mother's apron strings', not be committed to the relationship, or view people who are your personal friends as 'causing trouble' or 'trying to put a wedge' between you. He/she may want to live in the country without a phone, not let you use the car, stop you from working or gaining further education or qualifications.
Blame-shifting for Problems
Very rarely will an abusive personality accept responsibility for any negative situation or problem. If they are unemployed, can't hold down a job, were thrown out of college or University or fall out with their family, it is always someone else's fault, be it the boss, the government, or their mother. They may feel that someone is always doing them wrong, or out to get him. He/she may make a mistakes and then blame you for upsetting him/her or preventing him/her from doing as they wished to.
Blame-shifting for Feelings
The abuser will deny feelings stem from within him/her but see them as reactions to your behaviour or attitude toward him/her. He/she may tell you that 'you make me mad', 'you're hurting me by not doing what I ask', or that he/she cannot help feeling mad, upset, etc. Feelings may be used to manipulate you, i.e. 'I would not be angry if you didn't ...' Positive emotions will often also be seen as originating outside the abuser, but are more difficult to detect. Statements such as 'You make me happy' or 'You make me feel good about myself' are also signs that the abuser feels you are responsible for his sense of well-being. Either way, you become in his/her mind the cause of good and bad feelings and are therefore responsible for his/her emotional well-being and happiness. Consequently, you are also to blame for any negative feelings such as anger, upset or depression.
Hypersensitivity
Most abusers have very low self-esteem and are therefore easily insulted or upset. They may claim their feelings are 'hurt' when they are really angry, or take unrelated comments as personal attacks. They may perceive normal set-backs (having to work additional hours, being asked to help out, receiving a parking fine, etc.) as grave personal injustices. They may view your preference for something which differs from their own as a criticism of their taste and therefore themselves (e.g. blue wallpaper rather than pink, etc.).
Cruelty to Animals
The abuser may punishes animals brutally, be insensitive to their pain or suffering, or neglect to care for the animals to the point of cruelty, e.g. not feeding them all day, leaving them in areas he/she knows will cause them suffering or distress. There is a strong correlation between cruelty to animals and domestic violence which is still being researched.
Cruelty to Children
The abusers unrealistic expectations of their partner are often mirrored in their attitude toward children. He/she will think of children as 'small adults' and blame the children for not being responsible, having common sense or understanding. He/she may expect children to be capable far beyond their ability (e.g. is angry with a two-year old for wetting their pants or being sick on the carpet, waking at night or being upset by nightmares) and will often meet out punishments for 'naughtiness' the child could not be aware of. Abusers may tease children until they cry, or punish children way beyond what could be deemed appropriate. He/she may not want children to eat at the table, expect them to stay quiet, or keep to their room all evening while he/she is at home. Since abusers want all your attention themselves, they resent your spending time with the children or any normal demands and needs the children may have. As above (cruelty to animals), there is a very strong link between Domestic Violence and Child Abuse.
'Playful' use of Force in Sex
He/she may pressurise you to agree to forceful or violent acts during sex, or want to act out fantasies where you are helpless. A male abuser may let you know that the idea of "rape" excites him. He/she may show little concern about whether you want to have intercourse and uses sulking or anger to manipulate you into compliance. Starting sex while you are sleeping, demanding sex when you are ill or tired, or refusing any form of intimacy unless you are willing to go 'all the way' can all be signs that he/she could be sexually abusive or sexually violent.
Rigid Gender Roles
Abusers usually believe in stereotypical gender roles. A man may expect a woman to serve him; stay at home, obey him in all things - even things that are criminal in nature. A male abuser will often see women as inferior to men, more stupid, unable to be a whole person without a relationship. Female abusers may expect the man to provide for them entirely, shift the responsibility for her well-being onto him or heckle him as being 'not a real man' if he shows any weakness or emotion.
Verbal Abuse
In addition to saying things that are meant to be cruel and hurtful, either in public or in private, this can include degrading remarks or running down any accomplishments. Often the abuser will tell you that you are 'stupid', could not manage without him/her. He/she may keep you up all night to 'sort this out once and for all' or even wake you at night to continue to verbally abuse you. The abuser may even say kindly things to your face, but speak badly about you to friends and family.
Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde
Very rarely do abusers conform to the stereotypical image of a constantly harsh, nasty or violent person, either in public or in private. More frequently the abuser portrays a perfectly normal and pleasant picture to the outside world (often they have responsible jobs or are respected and important members of the local community or Church) and reserves the abuse for you in the privacy of your own home. Nor are abusers always overtly abusive or cruel, but can display apparent kindness and consideration. This Jeckyll and Hyde tendency of the abuser serves to further confuse the victim, while protecting themselves from any form of suspicion from outsiders. Many victims describe "sudden" changes in mood - one minute nice and the next explosive or hysterical, or one minute happy and the next minute sad. This does not indicate some special "mental problem" but are typical of abusive personalities, and related to other characteristics such as hypersensitivity.
Drink or Substance Abuse
While neither drinking or the use of drugs are signs of an abusive personality, heavy drinking or drug abuse may be a warning sign and do increase the risks of abuse, especially violence, taking place. Often an abusive person will blame the drink for his/her abuse. However, a person who, knowing there is a risk he/she could be violent when drinking or on drugs, chooses to get drunk or high, is in effect choosing to abuse. The link between substance abuse and domestic abuse is still being researched, and it is apparent that while neither alcohol nor drugs necessarily cause violence, they do increase the risk of violence.
History of Battering or Sexual Violence
Very rarely is abuse or violence a one-off event: a batterer will beat any woman he is with; a sexually abusive person will be abusive toward all his intimate partners. Situational circumstances do not make a person an abusive personality. Sometimes friends or family may try to warn you about the abuser. Sometimes the abuser may tell you himself/herself that he/she has hit or sexually assaulted someone in the past. However, they may further go on to explain that "she made me do it by ..." or in some other way not take responsibility and shift the blame on to the victim. They may tell you that it won't happen with you because "you love them enough to prevent it" or "you won't be stupid enough to wind me up that much". Once again, this is denying their own responsibility for the abuse, and shifting the responsibility for the relationship to remain abuse-free on to you. Past violence is one of the strongest pointers that abuse will occur.
Threatening Violence
This would obviously include any threat of physical force such as "If you speak to him/her again, I'll kill you", or "If any wife of mine acted like John's did, I'd give her a right seeing to". But can also include less obvious threats, such as "If you leave me, I will kill myself". Threats are designed to manipulate and control you, to keep you in your place and prevent you making your own decisions. Most people do not threaten their mates, but an abuser will excuse this behaviour by saying "everybody talks like that.", maintaining he/she is only saying this because the relationship or you are so important to him/her, tell you you're "over-sensitive" for being upset by such threats, or obviously want to hurt him/her.
Breaking or Striking Objects
The abusive person may break your treasured object, beat his/her fists on the table or chair or throw something at or past you. Breaking your things is often used as a punishment for some imagined misdeed on your part. Sometimes it will be justified by saying that now that you are with him/her, you don't need these items any more. Breaking your possessions also has the effect of de-personalising you, denying you your individuality or literally trying to break links to your past. Beating items of furniture or throwing objects will often be justified by saying you wound him/her up so much they lost control, once again shifting the blame for this behaviour on to you, but is actually used to terrorise you into submission. Only very immature or abusive people beat on objects in the presence of other people in order to threaten or intimidate them.
Any Force during an Argument
An abuser may physically restrain you from leaving the room, lash out at you with his/her hand or another object, pin you against a wall or shout 'right in your face'. Basically any form of force used during an argument can be a sign that actual violence is a strong possibility.
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The above list was prepared with reference to
A Guide to recognizing Behaviors of Abusive persons, Cheektowaga Police Department, (link no longer active - sorry!)
So true. I've been there--this article is right on the money--EVERY WORD.
As someone who was recently in a relationship with an emotionally abusive person, I can tell you that I found a great deal of comfort from a book written by George K. Simon Jr, PhD called "In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative people." An excerpt:
'The tactics that manipulators frequently use...........can make it seem like the person using them is hurting, caring defending...almost anything but fighting us for advantage. They always make just enough sense to make another doubt his or her gut hunch that they're being taken advantage of or abused. Because the tactics no only make it hard for a person to consciously and objectively know that a manipulator is fighting to overcome, but also simultaneously keep a person unconsciously on the defensive, they are highly effective psychological one-two punches TO WHICH ANYONE CAN SUCCUMB.'
Recovery from such a relationship is difficult. I wish I had never gotten involved with such a monster................. ...
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So true. I've been there--this article is right on the money--EVERY WORD.
As someone who was recently in a relationship with an emotionally abusive person, I can tell you that I found a great deal of comfort from a book written by George K. Simon Jr, PhD called "In Sheep's Clothing: Understanding and Dealing with Manipulative people." An excerpt:
'The tactics that manipulators frequently use...........can make it seem like the person using them is hurting, caring defending...almost anything but fighting us for advantage. They always make just enough sense to make another doubt his or her gut hunch that they're being taken advantage of or abused. Because the tactics no only make it hard for a person to consciously and objectively know that a manipulator is fighting to overcome, but also simultaneously keep a person unconsciously on the defensive, they are highly effective psychological one-two punches TO WHICH ANYONE CAN SUCCUMB.'
Recovery from such a relationship is difficult. I wish I had never gotten involved with such a monster................. ...
I thought I read that you are married???
How could be in a happy marriage and in an abusive relationship???
Maybe you were cheating on your husband, lied, and the other guy got pissed??????? That is not abusive.
Blaming others for damage you do is a symptom of bipolar behavior
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I thought I read that you are married???
How could be in a happy marriage and in an abusive relationship???
Maybe you were cheating on your husband, lied, and the other guy got pissed??????? That is not abusive.
Blaming others for damage you do is a symptom of bipolar behavior
No it isn't. It's just blaming someone else for your screw-up....hell everyone does it. I am sure you yourself have too armyguy. Does that mean everyone is bipolar?
Btw... what do kind of behaviour does physical or mental/emotional abuse, harrassment and stalking fall under?
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In light of some recent threads....
(from hiddenhurt.co.uk)
Warning Signs of an Abusive Personality
It is sometimes possible to predict the likelihood of the person you are currently or are about to become involved with being abusive. Below are a list of behaviours and traits which are common in abusive personalities. These are commonly known as Warning Signs.
While not all abusive people show the same signs, or display the tendencies to the same extent, if several behavioural traits are present, there is a strong tendency toward abusiveness. Generally, the more signs are present, the greater the likelihood of violence. In some cases, an abuser may have only a couple of behavioural traits that can be recognized, but they are very exaggerated (e.g. extreme jealousy over ridiculous things).
Often the abuser will initially try to explain his/her behaviour as signs of his/her love and concern, and the victim may be flattered at first; as time goes on, the behaviours become more severe and serve to dominate, control and manipulate the victim.
Related Pages:
Mr Wrong or Mr Right
The Dominator
Jealousy
At the beginning of a relationship, an abuser will always say the jealousy is a sign of love. He/she may question you about whom you have spoken to or seen during the day, may accuse you of flirting, or be jealous of time you spend with family, friends, children or hobbies which do not include him/her. As the jealousy progresses, he/she may call you frequently during the day or drop by unexpectedly. He may be unhappy about or refuse to let you work for fear you'll meet someone else, check the car mileage or ask friends to keep an eye on you. Jealousy is not proof of love, it is a sign of insecurity and possessiveness.
Controlling Behaviour
Controlling behaviour is often disguised or excused as concern. Concern for your safety, your emotional or mental health, the need to use your time well, or to make sensible decisions. Your abuser may be angry or upset if you are 'late' coming back from work, shopping, visiting friends, etc., even if you told him/her you would be later back than usual. Your abuser may question you closely about where you were, whom you spoke to, the content of every conversation you held, or why you did something he/she was not involved in. As this behaviour gets worse, you may not be allowed to make personal decisions about the house, clothing, going to church or how you spend your time or money or even make you ask for permission to leave the house or room. Alternately, he/she may theoretically allow you your own decisions, but penalise you for making the wrong ones. Concern for our loved ones to a certain extent is normal - trying to control their every move is not.
Quick Involvement
Many victims of abuse dated or knew their abuser for less than six months before they were engaged or living together. The abuser will often claim 'love at first sight', that you are 'made for each other', or that you are the only person whom he could ever talk to so openly, feel so at home with, could understand him so well. He/she may tell you that they have never loved anyone so much or felt so loved by anyone so much before, when you have really only known each other for a short amount of time. He/she needs someone desperately, and will pressure you to commit to him/her or make love before you feel the relationship has reached 'that stage'. He/she may also make you feel guilty for not committing yourself to him/her.
Unrealistic Expectations
The abuser may expects you to be the perfect husband, wife, mother, father, lover, and friend. He/she is very dependent on you for all his/her needs, and may tell you he/she can fulfil all your needs as lover, friend, and companion. Statements such as: 'lf you love me, I'm all you need.', 'You are all I need.' are common. Your abuser may expect you to provide everything for him/her emotionally, practically, financially or spiritually, and then blame you for not being perfect or living up to expectation.
Isolation
The abuser may try to curtail your social interaction. He/she may prevent you from spending time with your friends or family and demand that you only go places 'together'. He/she may accuse you of being 'tied to your mother's apron strings', not be committed to the relationship, or view people who are your personal friends as 'causing trouble' or 'trying to put a wedge' between you. He/she may want to live in the country without a phone, not let you use the car, stop you from working or gaining further education or qualifications.
Blame-shifting for Problems
Very rarely will an abusive personality accept responsibility for any negative situation or problem. If they are unemployed, can't hold down a job, were thrown out of college or University or fall out with their family, it is always someone else's fault, be it the boss, the government, or their mother. They may feel that someone is always doing them wrong, or out to get him. He/she may make a mistakes and then blame you for upsetting him/her or preventing him/her from doing as they wished to.
Blame-shifting for Feelings
The abuser will deny feelings stem from within him/her but see them as reactions to your behaviour or attitude toward him/her. He/she may tell you that 'you make me mad', 'you're hurting me by not doing what I ask', or that he/she cannot help feeling mad, upset, etc. Feelings may be used to manipulate you, i.e. 'I would not be angry if you didn't ...' Positive emotions will often also be seen as originating outside the abuser, but are more difficult to detect. Statements such as 'You make me happy' or 'You make me feel good about myself' are also signs that the abuser feels you are responsible for his sense of well-being. Either way, you become in his/her mind the cause of good and bad feelings and are therefore responsible for his/her emotional well-being and happiness. Consequently, you are also to blame for any negative feelings such as anger, upset or depression.
Hypersensitivity
Most abusers have very low self-esteem and are therefore easily insulted or upset. They may claim their feelings are 'hurt' when they are really angry, or take unrelated comments as personal attacks. They may perceive normal set-backs (having to work additional hours, being asked to help out, receiving a parking fine, etc.) as grave personal injustices. They may view your preference for something which differs from their own as a criticism of their taste and therefore themselves (e.g. blue wallpaper rather than pink, etc.).
Cruelty to Animals
The abuser may punishes animals brutally, be insensitive to their pain or suffering, or neglect to care for the animals to the point of cruelty, e.g. not feeding them all day, leaving them in areas he/she knows will cause them suffering or distress. There is a strong correlation between cruelty to animals and domestic violence which is still being researched.
Cruelty to Children
The abusers unrealistic expectations of their partner are often mirrored in their attitude toward children. He/she will think of children as 'small adults' and blame the children for not being responsible, having common sense or understanding. He/she may expect children to be capable far beyond their ability (e.g. is angry with a two-year old for wetting their pants or being sick on the carpet, waking at night or being upset by nightmares) and will often meet out punishments for 'naughtiness' the child could not be aware of. Abusers may tease children until they cry, or punish children way beyond what could be deemed appropriate. He/she may not want children to eat at the table, expect them to stay quiet, or keep to their room all evening while he/she is at home. Since abusers want all your attention themselves, they resent your spending time with the children or any normal demands and needs the children may have. As above (cruelty to animals), there is a very strong link between Domestic Violence and Child Abuse.
'Playful' use of Force in Sex
He/she may pressurise you to agree to forceful or violent acts during sex, or want to act out fantasies where you are helpless. A male abuser may let you know that the idea of "rape" excites him. He/she may show little concern about whether you want to have intercourse and uses sulking or anger to manipulate you into compliance. Starting sex while you are sleeping, demanding sex when you are ill or tired, or refusing any form of intimacy unless you are willing to go 'all the way' can all be signs that he/she could be sexually abusive or sexually violent.
Rigid Gender Roles
Abusers usually believe in stereotypical gender roles. A man may expect a woman to serve him; stay at home, obey him in all things - even things that are criminal in nature. A male abuser will often see women as inferior to men, more stupid, unable to be a whole person without a relationship. Female abusers may expect the man to provide for them entirely, shift the responsibility for her well-being onto him or heckle him as being 'not a real man' if he shows any weakness or emotion.
Verbal Abuse
In addition to saying things that are meant to be cruel and hurtful, either in public or in private, this can include degrading remarks or running down any accomplishments. Often the abuser will tell you that you are 'stupid', could not manage without him/her. He/she may keep you up all night to 'sort this out once and for all' or even wake you at night to continue to verbally abuse you. The abuser may even say kindly things to your face, but speak badly about you to friends and family.
Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde
Very rarely do abusers conform to the stereotypical image of a constantly harsh, nasty or violent person, either in public or in private. More frequently the abuser portrays a perfectly normal and pleasant picture to the outside world (often they have responsible jobs or are respected and important members of the local community or Church) and reserves the abuse for you in the privacy of your own home. Nor are abusers always overtly abusive or cruel, but can display apparent kindness and consideration. This Jeckyll and Hyde tendency of the abuser serves to further confuse the victim, while protecting themselves from any form of suspicion from outsiders. Many victims describe "sudden" changes in mood - one minute nice and the next explosive or hysterical, or one minute happy and the next minute sad. This does not indicate some special "mental problem" but are typical of abusive personalities, and related to other characteristics such as hypersensitivity.
Drink or Substance Abuse
While neither drinking or the use of drugs are signs of an abusive personality, heavy drinking or drug abuse may be a warning sign and do increase the risks of abuse, especially violence, taking place. Often an abusive person will blame the drink for his/her abuse. However, a person who, knowing there is a risk he/she could be violent when drinking or on drugs, chooses to get drunk or high, is in effect choosing to abuse. The link between substance abuse and domestic abuse is still being researched, and it is apparent that while neither alcohol nor drugs necessarily cause violence, they do increase the risk of violence.
History of Battering or Sexual Violence
Very rarely is abuse or violence a one-off event: a batterer will beat any woman he is with; a sexually abusive person will be abusive toward all his intimate partners. Situational circumstances do not make a person an abusive personality. Sometimes friends or family may try to warn you about the abuser. Sometimes the abuser may tell you himself/herself that he/she has hit or sexually assaulted someone in the past. However, they may further go on to explain that "she made me do it by ..." or in some other way not take responsibility and shift the blame on to the victim. They may tell you that it won't happen with you because "you love them enough to prevent it" or "you won't be stupid enough to wind me up that much". Once again, this is denying their own responsibility for the abuse, and shifting the responsibility for the relationship to remain abuse-free on to you. Past violence is one of the strongest pointers that abuse will occur.
Threatening Violence
This would obviously include any threat of physical force such as "If you speak to him/her again, I'll kill you", or "If any wife of mine acted like John's did, I'd give her a right seeing to". But can also include less obvious threats, such as "If you leave me, I will kill myself". Threats are designed to manipulate and control you, to keep you in your place and prevent you making your own decisions. Most people do not threaten their mates, but an abuser will excuse this behaviour by saying "everybody talks like that.", maintaining he/she is only saying this because the relationship or you are so important to him/her, tell you you're "over-sensitive" for being upset by such threats, or obviously want to hurt him/her.
Breaking or Striking Objects
The abusive person may break your treasured object, beat his/her fists on the table or chair or throw something at or past you. Breaking your things is often used as a punishment for some imagined misdeed on your part. Sometimes it will be justified by saying that now that you are with him/her, you don't need these items any more. Breaking your possessions also has the effect of de-personalising you, denying you your individuality or literally trying to break links to your past. Beating items of furniture or throwing objects will often be justified by saying you wound him/her up so much they lost control, once again shifting the blame for this behaviour on to you, but is actually used to terrorise you into submission. Only very immature or abusive people beat on objects in the presence of other people in order to threaten or intimidate them.
Any Force during an Argument
An abuser may physically restrain you from leaving the room, lash out at you with his/her hand or another object, pin you against a wall or shout 'right in your face'. Basically any form of force used during an argument can be a sign that actual violence is a strong possibility.
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The above list was prepared with reference to
A Guide to recognizing Behaviors of Abusive persons, Cheektowaga Police Department, (link no longer active - sorry!)
Funny, I too was in an abusive realtionship. A bit different though. In this situation, the [person was married, lied and cheated with me, then kept going back and forth, lieing to me about circumstances and situations. This person kept sucking me back into theis tale of lies and deceipt. Finally, after months of this, I was able to break free, and I was quite angry at all the lies and manipulation. After being so very angry, this person was able to turn it around on me and blame ME, calling me abusive becasue I was sooo angry.
Abuse comes in many forms but I wil def. read that book.
I am soooo glad to be away from tht monster, and liar.
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Funny, I too was in an abusive realtionship. A bit different though. In this situation, the [person was married, lied and cheated with me, then kept going back and forth, lieing to me about circumstances and situations. This person kept sucking me back into theis tale of lies and deceipt. Finally, after months of this, I was able to break free, and I was quite angry at all the lies and manipulation. After being so very angry, this person was able to turn it around on me and blame ME, calling me abusive becasue I was sooo angry.
Abuse comes in many forms but I wil def. read that book.
I am soooo glad to be away from tht monster, and liar.
Jack? I thought you wanted to take a "break" from all this ... drama.
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No it isn't. It's just blaming someone else for your screw-up....hell everyone does it. I am sure you yourself have too armyguy. Does that mean everyone is bipolar?
Btw... what do kind of behaviour does physical or mental/emotional abuse, harrassment and stalking fall under?
The question is, where does manipulation, lieing, and deciet fall under?????
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The question is, where does manipulation, lieing, and deciet fall under?????
There is always a difference in outcome when 2 people have a falling out. Best thing is to move forward, not look back. Blaming one another doesnt' do anything but add fuel to the fire, do you agree. What you believe to be true is true to you, but may not be true to the other and vice versa. You two are never going to come to an agreement, so lets just let it go and stop attacking.
The book Stella writes about in this thread is regarding MANY forms of abuse. If you honestly feel you have been abused, buy it, read it and learn from it.
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There is always a difference in outcome when 2 people have a falling out. Best thing is to move forward, not look back. Blaming one another doesnt' do anything but add fuel to the fire, do you agree. What you believe to be true is true to you, but may not be true to the other and vice versa. You two are never going to come to an agreement, so lets just let it go and stop attacking.
The book Stella writes about in this thread is regarding MANY forms of abuse. If you honestly feel you have been abused, buy it, read it and learn from it.
Seems to me like Delila is the one attacking. Defensinve posturing is another story.
She called him a "monster".........trust me, when you cheat, someone, or everyone will get hurt, people react differently to being hurt......that does not qualify as abuse.
Saying it's 'abuse' is just a another form of manipulation, and rationalization concerning the damage one inflicts.
just becasue someone does not react the way you want them to, in a way that does not suit your agenda, this is not abuse.
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Meltdown warning, I will repeat...meltdown warning :-\
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Personal lives should remain personal... ;)
Message boards are for sharing general opinions and thoughts.
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The question is, where does manipulation, lieing, and deciet fall under?????
Usually Thursday at 10:00pm and two shows Friday and Saturday Night. 8)
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Usually Thursday at 10:00pm and two shows Friday and Saturday Night. 8)
Yes, on both the "Lifetime" channel and "Oxygen" :)
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Seems to me like Delila is the one attacking. Defensinve posturing is another story.
She called him a "monster".........trust me, when you cheat, someone, or everyone will get hurt, people react differently to being hurt......that does not qualify as abuse.
Saying it's 'abuse' is just a another form of manipulation, and rationalization concerning the damage one inflicts.
just becasue someone does not react the way you want them to, in a way that does not suit your agenda, this is not abuse.
What is it with people? Why is the thought of it as "cheating" only mention when it doen't work out?
And again, this is "Delilah's" monster or how she views someone. If they are not truly a monster...it would be known by those they know and would show to all. But...if he is really a monster...he will show his true colors to the world.
Abuse is seen differently through different peoples eyes and comes in many forms. I suggest you read the book Army682. Maybe it will help you battle your own monsters.
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I agree that abuse happens but... is anyone here old enough to remember the "courage to heal" phenomenon? Everybody and their cousin believed they were abused as children.
A lot of people might take this the wrong way but... My guess is that a lot of perceved abuse is just that, perceived. A lot of people end up in serious reationships with responsibility, children, debt, etc... before being emotionally mature. Feeling abused might have just as much to do with poor self image, immature coping skills, not getting enough attention, fantasy clashing with reality or a million other things.
Abuse does occur but it's dangerous to have too broad of a definition. For example: Should we consider shopping too much a form of abuse? Maybe one spouse accumulates debt because they feel it will prevent the person from ever leaving them. If the breadwinner says no more shopping.... are they being abusive, controlling or just plain responsible?
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Yes, on both the "Lifetime" channel and "Oxygen" :)
I thought that it was from Thursday 10pm through Monday Morning at 8am...
Lifetime... Television for Man-Haters.
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Very rarely will an abusive personality accept responsibility for any negative situation or problem. If they are unemployed, can't hold down a job, were thrown out of college or University or fall out with their family, it is always someone else's fault, be it the boss, the government, or their mother. They may feel that someone is always doing them wrong, or out to get him. He/she may make a mistakes and then blame you for upsetting him/her or preventing him/her from doing as they wished to."
Amazing, just as it was in my realtionship. It seems these traits can be interpreted in most situations.
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Should we consider shopping too much a form of abuse?
Only when you have to deal with snobby resentful shop girls on Rodeo Dr. ;D
Something to keep in mind too is that each person relationship is their own. We know nothing about it except what we're told. It is quite possible there were many forms of abuse that Delilah encountered that she may not have articulated to you. You cannot say he was or was not a monster. we don't know.
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Good post Army682.
But, please go to this link and read and agree to the rules of this board so that you may continue to post here. Otherwise all your posts may be deleted by the those who moderate this board.
Thank you.
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Only when you have to deal with snobby resentful shop girls on Rodeo Dr. ;D
Something to keep in mind too is that each person relationship is their own. We know nothing about it except what we're told. It is quite possible there were many forms of abuse that Delilah encountered that she may not have articulated to you. You cannot say he was or was not a monster. we don't know.
Judi,
Shopping and accumulating debt was just an example of ways people might either conciously or subconciously try to exert power/control in a relationship. Shopping itself isn't bad, there can just be a lot of reasons for spending going on in a person's mind.
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And some of us just NEED 80 pairs of shoes... :)
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And some of us just NEED 80 pairs of shoes... :)
There's no one thing with 500 pairs of shoes. As long as you can actually afford them.
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Judi,
Shopping and accumulating debt was just an example of ways people might either conciously or subconciously try to exert power/control in a relationship. Shopping itself isn't bad, there can just be a lot of reasons for spending going on in a person's mind.
it's a sex substitute :-X
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it's a sex substitute :-X
Isn't everything?
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Definite Signs of an abusive personality here:
Believe it or not, this man is talking to his 11 year old daughter! >:( ...just lovely. :'(
Click here to hear how an abusive asshole speaks to his 11 yr. old daughter (http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/news;_ylt=AlLIurlot6in9xgiEzZJMtInncUF?ch=68276&cl=2444969&lang=en','playerWindow','width=793,height=608,scrollbars=no)
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Definite Signs of an abusive personality here:
Believe it or not, this man is talking to his 11 year old daughter! >:( ...just lovely. :'(
Click here to hear how an abusive asshole speaks to his 11 yr. old daughter (http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/news;_ylt=AlLIurlot6in9xgiEzZJMtInncUF?ch=68276&cl=2444969&lang=en','playerWindow','width=793,height=608,scrollbars=no)
Very sad, tragic when relationships go literally to hell, dont take this as defense of him, but I think this is more directed at the mom, and he has no way to lash out. He's lost it. Leaving it on the recorder is extra Crazy ???.
I'd think that anyone who's worked themself into his postion in Life would have more smarts and self-control.
Im not excusing him, but we all know how terrible it is when it all goes to shit. I feel for them all.
I hope he gets it together, and can salvage the relationship w/ his daughter someday, someway.
Stuff gets way worseN that for many of us at some time in our life. No broken bones, no blood.
Terrible to have your life on display 24/7 like these people do.
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Very sad, tragic when relationships go literally to hell, dont take this as defense of him, but I think this is more directed at the mom, and he has no way to lash out. He's lost it. Leaving it on the recorder is extra Crazy ???.
Or indicative of a megolomaniacal asshole with no clue his behaviour is innappropriate.
I'd think that anyone who's worked themself into his postion in Life would have more smarts and self-control.
You would think so huh? The truth however is some people have no self-control.
Im not excusing him, but we all know how terrible it is when it all goes to shit. I feel for them all.
I hope he gets it together, and can salvage the relationship w/ his daughter someday, someway.
What was his excuse before divorce proceedings and a custody battle set in? He was an arrogant prick then too.
Stuff gets way worseN that for many of us at some time in our life. No broken bones, no blood.
Agreed, ...but that's no excuse. I don't see any justification to say "ok, so I emotionally abused. At least I didn't also hit" The scars of emotional abuse are longer lasting and inflict much more damage.
Terrible to have your life on display 24/7 like these people do.
Yes, it is, ...however, there are some things upon which a spotlight should be shined. For years many of us have known about Alec Baldwin's temper and abusive ways. He reduced Kim Basinger to a shell of her former being. Some of the things he did were absolutely outrageous, ...and when someone does things like he did in public... you can only imagine what he does behind closed doors that cannot be scrutinized. Now he wants to start that same shit on an 11yr. old girl? It's bad enough he can reduce a grown woman into a state of helplessness where she accepts the abuse... an 11 yr. old girl growing up under that kind of influence is quite literally a babe in the woods, and doesn't stand a chance. And to be berated like that by her FATHER, at such a delicate and impressionable age where she is just starting to develop her self image in so many ways is NOT acceptable. I just wish Ireland has the ability to sue the family court judge that insists she be required to spend time with him. I don't care if he is her father. She should not be required to have a relationship with someone who would call her a disgusting pig of a person and who constantly denigrates her mother.
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Definite Signs of an abusive personality here:
Believe it or not, this man is talking to his 11 year old daughter! >:( ...just lovely. :'(
Click here to hear how an abusive asshole speaks to his 11 yr. old daughter (http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/news;_ylt=AlLIurlot6in9xgiEzZJMtInncUF?ch=68276&cl=2444969&lang=en','playerWindow','width=793,height=608,scrollbars=no)
I disagree... see my posts on the other thread about this.
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Or indicative of a megolomaniacal asshole with no clue his behaviour is innappropriate.
You would think so huh? The truth however is some people have no self-control.
What was his excuse before divorce proceedings and a custody battle set in? He was an arrogant prick then too.
Agreed, ...but that's no excuse. I don't see any justification to say "ok, so I emotionally abused. At least I didn't also hit" The scars of emotional abuse are longer lasting and inflict much more damage.
Yes, it is, ...however, there are some things upon which a spotlight should be shined. For years many of us have known about Alec Baldwin's temper and abusive ways. He reduced Kim Basinger to a shell of her former being. Some of the things he did were absolutely outrageous, ...and when someone does things like he did in public... you can only imagine what he does behind closed doors that cannot be scrutinized. Now he wants to start that same shit on an 11yr. old girl? It's bad enough he can reduce a grown woman into a state of helplessness where she accepts the abuse... an 11 yr. old girl growing up under that kind of influence is quite literally a babe in the woods, and doesn't stand a chance. And to be berated like that by her FATHER, at such a delicate and impressionable age where she is just starting to develop her self image in so many ways is NOT acceptable. I just wish Ireland has the ability to sue the family court judge that insists she be required to spend time with him. I don't care if he is her father. She should not be required to have a relationship with someone who would call her a disgusting pig of a person and who constantly denigrates her mother.
Im not making excuses for him. The public THINKS they know celebs. But they dont. I dont just accept what the media prints, I dont even read it. Fact is, I'd never listened to this if you didnt post it. I do think you do have a fair idea about him.
I wouldn't want the life of a celeb regardless of the $z.
Look@ Pitt and Angie, Kid Rock and Pam, Brittany... the list goes on. Yes, I'm sure they may have flaws, but that kind of pressure and constant scrutiny is a load I wouldn't want to carry.
He comes across as a brainless ass, but relationship breakdown will bring out the worst.
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Im not making excuses for him. The public THINKS they know celebs. But they dont. I dont just accept what the media prints, I dont even read it. Fact is, I'd never listened to this if you didnt post it. I do think you do have a fair idea about him.
I wouldn't want the life of a celeb regardless of the $z.
Look@ Pitt and Angie, Kid Rock and Pam, Brittany... the list goes on. Yes, I'm sure they may have flaws, but that kind of pressure and constant scrutiny is a load I wouldn't want to carry.
He comes across as a brainless ass, but relationship breakdown will bring out the worst.
Trab, I normally keep away from stuff like this as well. I see many stories written about many people who I have met, encourntered, gotten to know etc., Some of it is true, ...some of it is false... and I pretty much try not to fuel the fire because I believe they have a right to privacy ...even if they are assholes, ...but when I see the abuse being transfered to children... a spotlight needs to be shed on it. I'm glad Kim and her attorney leaked that message. She is in a battle to protect her child from a monster... even if that monster happens to be the child's father.
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Trab, I normally keep away from stuff like this as well. I see many stories written about many people who I have met, encourntered, gotten to know etc., Some of it is true, ...some of it is false... and I pretty much try not to fuel the fire because I believe they have a right to privacy ...even if they are assholes, ...but when I see the abuse being transfered to children... a spotlight needs to be shed on it. I'm glad Kim and her attorney leaked that message. She is in a battle to protect her child from a monster... even if that monster happens to be the child's father.
Even if they are assholes is prolly very often true.
This guy deserves it. "Leaked"? My God, what did he expect? He wins a big stupid prize.
No way for ANY lawyer to talk this one away for him.
I allways suspect 90%+ the stuff we see about stars is extremely distorted at best. I Don't follow it.
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Even if they are assholes is prolly very often true.
This guy deserves it. "Leaked"? My God, what did he expect? He wins a big stupid prize.
No way for ANY lawyer to talk this one away for him.
I allways suspect 90%+ the stuff we see about stars is extremely distorted at best. I Don't follow it.
On a good note... a judge has ordered him NOT TO HAVE ANY CONTACT WHATSOEVER WITH HIS DAUGHTER!
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Oh Thank GOD!!!!
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History of Battering or Sexual Violence
Very rarely is abuse or violence a one-off event: a batterer will beat any woman he is with; a sexually abusive person will be abusive toward all his intimate partners. Situational circumstances do not make a person an abusive personality. Sometimes friends or family may try to warn you about the abuser. Sometimes the abuser may tell you himself/herself that he/she has hit or sexually assaulted someone in the past. However, they may further go on to explain that "she made me do it by ..." or in some other way not take responsibility and shift the blame on to the victim. They may tell you that it won't happen with you because "you love them enough to prevent it" or "you won't be stupid enough to wind me up that much". Once again, this is denying their own responsibility for the abuse, and shifting the responsibility for the relationship to remain abuse-free on to you. Past violence is one of the strongest pointers that abuse will occur".
I agree with this 100%.
past violence is def. the strongest sign. If a person had never been abusive in the past, he/she is not likely to be abusive in the future.
I had a freind who was in a realtionship in which the girlfreind actually called his ex-wife, to see if he was abusive to her...after being reassured that he had never been abusive, in any manner. Of course, some people only listen or read the information that supports their individual agenda. We must be very careful about these traits, and our interpretation.
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On a good note... a judge has ordered him NOT TO HAVE ANY CONTACT WHATSOEVER WITH HIS DAUGHTER!
Oh Thank GOD!!!!
Actually, it's terrible. I don't see how you guys can see he's abusive... You don't know him, and his statement to his daughter was very accurate given the situation. Why don't you ask Kim B. why she decided to leak this to the press in the first place? hmmm?
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Actually, it's terrible. I don't see how you guys can see he's abusive... You don't know him, and his statement to his daughter was very accurate given the situation. Why don't you ask Kim B. why she decided to leak this to the press in the first place? hmmm?
Are you sure about that?
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Are you sure about that?
I can ask you the same question? Unless you've lived with someone day in and day out, you don't know them.
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I can ask you the same question? Unless you've lived with someone day in and day out, you don't know them.
Working on a film set with someone 16 hr days for months on end, you can "know someone" pretty well.
The bottom line is that is NOT how you talk to an 11 yr. old girl.
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Working on a film set with someone 16 hr days for months on end, you can "know someone" pretty well.
The bottom line is that is NOT how you talk to an 11 yr. old girl.
I disagree... if the 11 year old girl is acting like a brat, she needs to be told so.
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I disagree... if the 11 year old girl is acting like a brat, she needs to be told so.
Her cell phone was turned off.
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Her cell phone was turned off.
As a parent, when I give a kid a cell phone, it's for me to contact them... It's not supposed to be "off".
You're acting like this 11 year old girl is an adult... She's not. She has to answer to her parents... I'm not a hard ass by any stretch, but there are rules.
He may have given her that phone with the understanding that it is to be on at all times in case he calls.
How do we know the rules that were in place?
I don't know if you have children, but if you do, do you worry about them?
That cell phone is probably his only means of communicating with her, and it was effectively taken away... You might be a little miffed too.
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As a parent, when I give a kid a cell phone, it's for me to contact them... It's not supposed to be "off".
You're acting like this 11 year old girl is an adult... She's not. She has to answer to her parents... I'm not a hard ass by any stretch, but there are rules.
He may have given her that phone with the understanding that it is to be on at all times in case he calls.
How do we know the rules that were in place?
I don't know if you have children, but if you do, do you worry about them?
That cell phone is probably his only means of communicating with her, and it was effectively taken away... You might be a little miffed too.
You're simply trying to make excuses for him, ...and there is no excuse for him.
It's obvious he was not worried about her safety... he was pissed because he wanted to talk to her,
and she wasn't there. Big whoop. You leave a message, and let her call you back. You don't cuss her out like that.
Maybe she was in a bad area, where the signal couldn't get through, maybe the battery died, maybe she was in the bathroom, maybe she was taking a nap... Could have been 6 of this, half a dozen of the other,... the bottom line is that's no way to talk to your 11 yr. old daughter.
Spin it any way you want... it won't change the fact that HE WAS DEAD WRONG!
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You're simply trying to make excuses for him, ...and there is no excuse for him.
It's obvious he was not worried about her safety... he was pissed because he wanted to talk to her,
and she wasn't there. Big whoop. You leave a message, and let her call you back. You don't cuss her out like that.
Maybe she was in a bad area, where the signal couldn't get through, maybe the battery died, maybe she was in the bathroom, maybe she was taking a nap... Could have been 6 of this, half a dozen of the other,... the bottom line is that's no way to talk to your 11 yr. old daughter.
Spin it any way you want... it won't change the fact that HE WAS DEAD WRONG!
Actually, you are voicing your opinion... there is no fact in it what so ever.
I don't think he was wrong at all... There's your fact.
I don't "feel" he was wrong... More fact.
You saying "he's wrong", is opinion... Many will not agree with you.
There's no spin what so ever.
She is a CHILD... she is HIS responsibility... If she goes off and does stupid shit and gets herself in trouble, or worse, dead... Everyone will be saying, "Where were the parents?"
He's being NORMAL parent. Did he lose his temper? Maybe, but hell, you don't? Who on this planet NEVER loses their temper? Especially at a child.
Sounds like you think life is some storybook fairy tale... It's not.
You're making excuses for her, and frankly I don't see how you can.
See how this whole "opinion" thing works?
You seem to have some sort of personal agenda when it comes to the guy... Certainly any normal parent would think similarly to him. I know I would.
Which I guess in your mind, would make me abusive too... which, by the way, would be a retarded thing for someone to say.
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Actually, you are voicing your opinion... there is no fact in it what so ever.
I don't think he was wrong at all... There's your fact.
I don't "feel" he was wrong... More fact.
You saying "he's wrong", is opinion... Many will not agree with you.
There's no spin what so ever.
She is a CHILD... she is HIS responsibility... If she goes off and does stupid shit and gets herself in trouble, or worse, dead... Everyone will be saying, "Where were the parents?"
He's being NORMAL parent. Did he lose his temper? Maybe, but hell, you don't? Who on this planet NEVER loses their temper? Especially at a child.
Sounds like you think life is some storybook fairy tale... It's not.
You're making excuses for her, and frankly I don't see how you can.
See how this whole "opinion" thing works?
You seem to have some sort of personal agenda when it comes to the guy... Certainly any normal parent would think similarly to him. I know I would.
Which I guess in your mind, would make me abusive too... which, by the way, would be a retarded thing for someone to say.
Tu, she was in California... he was in NYC. This was not a safety issue or him trying to parent her.
He wanted to talk to her. Don't tell me he was worried about her safety. He was concerned about his ego.
He might be her parent, but he does not have the right to speak to her that way.
You want respect... as a parent? The easiest way to get it, is to show yourself worthy of it.
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Tu, she was in California... he was in NYC. This was not a safety issue or him trying to parent her.
He wanted to talk to her. Don't tell me he was worried about her safety. He was concerned about his ego.
He might be her parent, but he does not have the right to speak to her that way.
You want respect... as a parent? The easiest way to get it, is to show yourself worthy of it.
You can give respect to kids all day long and they will still step out of line.
Do you have kids?
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You can give respect to kids all day long and they will still step out of line.
Do you have kids?
Imo, best way to teach them respect is to show them respect.
Ranting at your child that they are a "thoughtless little pig" is simply unacceptable.
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THe guy totally came unglued. He feels powerless and alone, angry and every other bad emotion at once.
If he lost it, I can see past it. If this is his standard operating procedure, I cant.
Every businessman I know w/ a minute % of his wealth and power is smarter that do a phone rant like that. Also, the fact he was able to have this recording (what a idiot) "gaged" rapidly enough after his screwup speaks volumes about the corruption in the power structure. This is a guy who is accustomed to being able to bend the rules severely and get away with it IMO.
My gut tell me hes a skunk, but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I hope he and the Daughter can get past it even if he's not the greatest person.
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NO child should ever be spoken to in such a manner. >:( If you are pissed...that's fine, but you don't call a child a pig and you don't threaten them either. All he needed to say was that he was upset with her for not being available to take his call as planned. That he was disappointed that he could not speak with her and that he missed her. Instead, he ranted like a crazed lunatic and should be embarrassed by his actions.
And although this should have remained private and should have been handled by Kim and Alec as adults, he (Alec) may not have realized the damage his actions could have caused to his daughter if it were not broadcasted in such a way.
I find it strange that he can come out with a book on how fathers should deal with divorce/child custody issues and dealing with them, when he himself some is in need of anger management classes.