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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: columbusdude82 on April 16, 2007, 04:14:06 PM
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This is a topic that I have been thinking about on and off for a long time, and increasingly often in the past few days. It eerily coincides with the Virginia Tech massacre.
The way I see it, I go to a big school. I have classes in large classroom buildings where hundreds of other students are taking class at the same time. Who knows what people can bring into the building in their backpacks? Guns? Bombs? Suicide bombers? (I know it's not right, but I am always creeped out when I see a muslim student in traditional dress, whether a guy with a hedge for a beard, or a covered up chick.) Other buildings on campus contain not only classrooms, but offices for professors who are some of the brightest minds of this country and research facilities: perfect targets for those who want to drag us all back to the seventh century.
I realize it is not feasible to search every student and every backpack, but the current level of security at my school is sub-par in my opinion. What do you guys think?
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I stated earlier that if actual students were detained or searched because of suspicion or odd behavior, the ACLU and NAACP would step in. And since most college students now are more liberal, they would probably agree with no searches or detainments because of just "intuition". IMO, if you got nothing to hide, just abide.
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This is a topic that I have been thinking about on and off for a long time, and increasingly often in the past few days. It eerily coincides with the Virginia Tech massacre.
The way I see it, I go to a big school. I have classes in large classroom buildings where hundreds of other students are taking class at the same time. Who knows what people can bring into the building in their backpacks? Guns? Bombs? Suicide bombers? (I know it's not right, but I am always creeped out when I see a muslim student in traditional dress, whether a guy with a hedge for a beard, or a covered up chick.) Other buildings on campus contain not only classrooms, but offices for professors who are some of the brightest minds of this country and research facilities: perfect targets for those who want to drag us all back to the seventh century.
I realize it is not feasible to search every student and every backpack, but the current level of security at my school is sub-par in my opinion. What do you guys think?
You do know that almost all school massacres are done by deranged students, correct? How about neutralizing situations involving bullying and having on-campus psychologists who would be able to help students under tons of stress?
Schools are diverse with people of all backgrounds, many of whom have great credentials. It wouldn't be fare for them to be subject to profiling and searches because they are paying $ to be there. I know this might sound harsh, but if I'm a brownie and I worked hard to get into a good school and I'm paying a ton of money, then I honestly don't give a rat's ass about Virginia Tech and 33 or whatever amount of victims. To me it's not an excuse to have me stand out when I've done nothing wrong. Hope this helps.
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You do know that almost all school massacres are done by deranged students, correct? How about neutralizing situations involving bullying and having on-campus psychologists who would be able to help students under tons of stress?
Agreed.
Schools are diverse with people of all backgrounds, many of whom have great credentials. It wouldn't be fare fair for them to be subject to profiling and searches because they are paying $ to be there. I know this might sound harsh, but if I'm a brownie and I worked hard to get into a good school and I'm paying a ton of money, then I honestly don't give a rat's ass about Virginia Tech and 33 or whatever amount of victims. To me it's not an excuse to have me stand out when I've done nothing wrong. Hope this helps.
Agreed. I am certainly not suggesting profiling, nor am I saying "search the muslims." Far from it. But you do recognize that brown or blue, if murderers target the university, they are targeting you. Just as muslim terrorists made no effort to save muslim lives in 9/11, London, or Iraq, they will have no qualms about killing a few dozen muslim students along with all the infidels. I am not saying I have the answer, but I do know the current system is too lax. I am wondering what can be done.
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Agreed. I am certainly not suggesting profiling, nor am I saying "search the muslims." Far from it. But you do recognize that brown or blue, if murderers target the university, they are targeting you. Just as muslim terrorists made no effort to save muslim lives in 9/11, London, or Iraq, they will have no qualms about killing a few dozen muslim students along with all the infidels. I am not saying I have the answer, but I do know the current system is too lax. I am wondering what can be done.
Metal detectors and armed gaurds. I'm sure most schools can afford these modern day necessities. Armed gaurds would be a great for keeping people safe. Same crazy goes "HUALLAHLUHHALLLAH JIHAD!!" and then gets capped. ;D
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Metal detectors and armed gaurds. I'm sure most schools can afford these modern day necessities. Armed gaurds would be a great for keeping people safe. Same crazy goes "HUALLAHLUHHALLLAH JIHAD!!" and then gets capped. ;D
Yes. I have no intention of dying a senselessly violent death just because some nut had a rough childhood or is anxious to meet his 72 virgins...
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I hate to pull the curtain back but we in the USA are really lucky stuff like this is not more commonplace (and I think it will increase in the furture). There is no was to stop what happened. If you are a nut job and want to kill a bunch of people be it at a school or a mall or a sporting event you will be able to. In virginia a few months back a nut job shot up the local police station killing two officers. I could walk onto a military base and do the same thing anywhere. Its getting to be the world and society that glamorizes the act and then blaims people but never really solves the problem.
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picking out the crazies and fixing them is always a good effort.
But they should do more to keep schools safe. Transparent bookbags, better screening, panic buttons in rooms (they had them in my last univ), and yes, allow teachers to carry concealed. hold them accountable to the maximum for any mistakes. But if every teacher had a fanny pack with a handgun and a panic alarm, we wouldn't have had 60 people getting shot.
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picking out the crazies and fixing them is always a good effort.
But they should do more to keep schools safe. Transparent bookbags, better screening, panic buttons in rooms (they had them in my last univ), and yes, allow teachers to carry concealed. hold them accountable to the maximum for any mistakes. But if every teacher had a fanny pack with a handgun and a panic alarm, we wouldn't have had 60 people getting shot.
I agree with the idea that there is always room to imporve but here it seems like if you put in tighter restrictions 3 years from now everhbody is going to be complaining we live in a nazi state. I agree if there were one or two students that had CCW's there could have been someone who stopped it. As for teaschers today I almost think it should be manditory.
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This is such bullshit i mean what are the odds of getting killed like this really it's just aprt of life a small fucking fraction too. If we really care that much not having guns everywhere wouldn't hurt. I mean people are gonna be able to kill large numbers of people no matter what. If not in a crowed school your bus driver can take 50 people off a bridge. There's alwasys something.
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This is such bullshit i mean what are the odds of getting killed like this really it's just aprt of life a small fucking fraction too. If we really care that much not having guns everywhere wouldn't hurt. I mean people are gonna be able to kill large numbers of people no matter what. If not in a crowed school your bus driver can take 50 people off a bridge. There's alwasys something.
It's not the tool but the indiviual. If you had a magic button that made every gun in the world disappear then it would be something else. The angry nature of people now is getting worse. You had bad drivers when I was a kid now you have road rage and people getting killed. You had kids that made threats to blow up the school, now they do. You had gangs that fought now they just drive by and kill each other. Its the culture thats the problem.
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It's not the tool but the indiviual. If you had a magic button that made every gun in the world disappear then it would be something else. The angry nature of people now is getting worse. You had bad drivers when I was a kid now you have road rage and people getting killed. You had kids that made threats to blow up the school, now they do. You had gangs that fought now they just drive by and kill each other. Its the culture thats the problem.
Total horshit the only difference today is that it's a lot harder to get away with murder than in the past to most people it's almost impossible. So if there gonna kill people they might as well kill a bunch. It's part a small part of being human.
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Oh yeah and that today people are smart enough to figure out how there getting fucked over by other people and the fact that we got guns. I mean this wouldn't happen in the days of muskets. I mean could you imagine it it'd take 3 days to shoot down 60 people.
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I agree with the idea that there is always room to imporve but here it seems like if you put in tighter restrictions 3 years from now everhbody is going to be complaining we live in a nazi state. I agree if there were one or two students that had CCW's there could have been someone who stopped it. As for teaschers today I almost think it should be manditory.
Cool. I carried a gun most of my college career. Always had to leave it in the truck when I went to class, never could bring it on campus. Seeing as Va is a concealed carry state, I'm guessing there were a lot of people in classes yesterday just wishing they hadn't left it in the truck that morning...
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Cool. I carried a gun most of my college career. Always had to leave it in the truck when I went to class, never could bring it on campus. Seeing as Va is a concealed carry state, I'm guessing there were a lot of people in classes yesterday just wishing they hadn't left it in the truck that morning...
soyour gonna carry a gun to class every single day so the 1 in 100000000 chance that today is the day your gonna get mowed dun by some nut bag. That's just fucking ridicoulous. It's just gonna cause the gunners to plan ahead and make better plans.
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I was guessing it would a white bastard or some muslim nutjob. turns out it's a chink, go figure.....
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Total horshit the only difference today is that it's a lot harder to get away with murder than in the past to most people it's almost impossible. So if there gonna kill people they might as well kill a bunch. It's part a small part of being human.
HUH I have no idea what your trying to point out. Could be me thought could you rephrase?
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soyour gonna carry a gun to class every single day so the 1 in 100000000 chance that today is the day your gonna get mowed dun by some nut bag. That's just fucking ridicoulous. It's just gonna cause the gunners to plan ahead and make better plans.
I think his point is you can and should do as much as you can for your own personal security. I have a CCW and carry not because I think theres ever going to be a chance I will need it (I do not put myself in those types of situations) but because if I do I have it. Nobody is going to look out for you but you. If some of those kids were armed and could have shot back Yes I think it could have helped. But I understand no matter what you do if someone wants to kill you they will. I just think it has little to do with guns or gun issues and more to do with the anger issues in today's society.
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Always had to leave it in the truck when I went to class, never could bring it on campus.
What a safe place to keep your gun. And people wonder how guns get into the hands of criminals. Sorry man, I'm totally against hand guns in general. Hunting rifles, I dont have a prob with but hand guns are a bit of a differnet story.
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What a safe place to keep your gun. And people wonder how guns get into the hands of criminals. Sorry man, I'm totally against hand guns in general. Hunting rifles, I dont have a prob with but hand guns are a bit of a differnet story.
Before yesterday what was used to kill the most people on a college campus in US history??? Rifles. All the people killed in the DC sniper shooting...rifle...snipe r kilings in OH and AZ --rifle.. its not the firearm its society.
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Before yesterday what was used to kill the most people on a college campus in US history??? Rifles. All the people killed in the DC sniper shooting...rifle...snipe r kilings in OH and AZ --rifle.. its not the firearm its society.
Except after yesterday more were killedthan in the combined total of all those rifle killings. But that's not even the point soceity ain't that fucked up i mean there's nothing that can change it. It's no big deal people over hype this shit way to much, mean while a couple hundred people a year die from car polution place big battles that make sense
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Except after yesterday more were killedthan in the combined total of all those rifle killings. But that's not even the point soceity ain't that fucked up i mean there's nothing that can change it. It's no big deal people over hype this shit way to much, mean while a couple hundred people a year die from car polution place big battles that make sense
DC 16 killed 7 attempted
TX 15 killed 31 wounded
I understand that drunk driving kills more each year but thats not the point.
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statistically, every person is the victim of one violent crime in his/her life.
There's one really good reason.
I carry inside waistband or in pants. A bad guy would never see it (ideally) until the moment before its lights out.
soyour gonna carry a gun to class every single day so the 1 in 100000000 chance that today is the day your gonna get mowed dun by some nut bag. That's just fucking ridicoulous. It's just gonna cause the gunners to plan ahead and make better plans.
"Make better plans". Okay. And your '1 in 100000000 chance' is way off. If you believe you are safe, by all means, do your thing. Me? I never want to be the guy bawling on the curb, asking "Why me..." But hey, if you want that role, it's your right.
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Campus security AND cops should've been in the friggin building during the spree. Where were they? Cowards. What use are they?
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Campus security AND cops should've been in the friggin building during the spree. Where were they? Cowards. What use are they?
Cops i understand but really campus security are nothing more then mcd workers with a badge. Would you expect more from them?
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Campus security AND cops should've been in the friggin building during the spree. Where were they? Cowards. What use are they?
cell phone video showed them standing outside as multiple shots rang inside.
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cell phone video showed them standing outside as multiple shots rang inside.
Exactly; WTF was that? Heavily armed too.
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Exactly; WTF was that? Heavily armed too.
Do you guys have a link to the video?
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Do you guys have a link to the video?
It's the video taken by a student. Here are some frames.
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/us/0704/gallery.ireport.vt.shooting/frameset.exclude.html
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Great job of standing around, security!!
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Great job of standing around, security!!
Wow thats hard to watch. I understand caution (I know I know) but who knows if they have what it takes to go running into a building wtih someone you have no idea is at shooting? Since they had no idea what was happening I can (maybe) understand better not to act then to either make it worse or kill someone else by mistake. sucks all around.
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Wow thats hard to watch. I understand caution (I know I know) but who knows if they have what it takes to go running into a building wtih someone you have no idea is at shooting? Since they had no idea what was happening I can (maybe) understand better not to act then to either make it worse or kill someone else by mistake. sucks all around.
Caution while shots are fired, when that's what you're paid to rarely have to do is absurd, to the extent shown there.
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Caution while shots are fired, when that's what you're paid to rarely have to do is absurd, to the extent shown there.
I understand what your saying but there is a complete difference from a group of swat who could and do practice this situation to a bunch of normal cops and campus security. In the end people are people and you have only one life and regardles of what your job is I understand caution. If they zoom in there and kill students trying to flee by accident or cause a guy who is only shooting at shadows to start droping kids what would happen?
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I understand what your saying but there is a complete difference from a group of swat who could and do practice this situation to a bunch of normal cops and campus security. In the end people are people and you have only one life and regardles of what your job is I understand caution. If they zoom in there and kill students trying to flee by accident or cause a guy who is only shooting at shadows to start droping kids what would happen?
Paralysis by analysis, both your post and their actions. With shots ringing out everywhere there has to be more than standing around, maybe a combination of prudence and action. Just takes a little guts, which should be a prerequisite for the job, don't you think?
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Paralysis by analysis, both your post and their actions. With shots ringing out everywhere there has to be more than standing around, maybe a combination of prudence and action. Just takes a little guts, which should be a prerequisite for the job, don't you think?
Everything is a easy choice when you watching it on TV..I understand how cops work and I bet you would hardley ever see someone inside a structure hidden and firing where a bunch of cops ran inside. They tend to set up a permiter and asses the situation, then make a choice. This all happened on the fly correct. Having been shot at in the service my first reaction was to duck for cover and check myself for holes.Maybe you would have handled it differently and you could be 100% correct but its hard to tell from what I saw is all I am saying.
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Everything is a easy choice when you watching it on TV..I understand how cops work and I bet you would hardley ever see someone inside a structure hidden and firing where a bunch of cops ran inside. They tend to set up a permiter and asses the situation, then make a choice. This all happened on the fly correct. Having been shot at in the service my first reaction was to duck for cover and check myself for holes.Maybe you would have handled it differently and you could be 100% correct but its hard to tell from what I saw is all I am saying.
Here's what we know:
-They did nothing.
-Everyone possible was killed.
Those are pretty good indications more should've been tried.
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Here's what we know:
-They did nothing.
-Everyone possible was killed.
Those are pretty good indications more should've been tried.
I feel what your saying and to some extent agree with you but its not always the easy answer or way things are done. Its like now everybody says if they were on a plane and somebody with a box cutter tried to take it over they would "hero" it up, but before 9/11 everybody was always told sit quiet and do not cause a problem and after some time you will be let go. All I am saying is if they rushed in and saved some but mistakenly in the action killed three or four others and injured more then everybody would want to know why they rushed in.
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All I am saying is if they rushed in and saved some but mistakenly in the action killed three or four others and injured more then everybody would want to know why they rushed in.
Sure, but it's erroneous to make that assumption; that's a worst-case. Case-by-case, common sense.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but they are trained and paid to enter and quickly locate the source of the shooting and put him down.
I do a lot of gun training myself, and I'm sure the police do way more. I would feel confident entering that building if I had to (if it was my job) so I think it's safe to say those men with badges had adequate training.
When shots are ringing, they CAN find the source. it's quiet time that's dangerous to enter. When you KNOW the source of the shooting is down this hallway, you can eliminate all other directions.
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When shots are ringing, they CAN find the source. it's quiet time that's dangerous to enter. When you KNOW the source of the shooting is down this hallway, you can eliminate all other directions.
Plus the shots are a pretty good hint to hurry the f*** up given that the students aren't likely armed.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but they are trained and paid to enter and quickly locate the source of the shooting and put him down.
I do a lot of gun training myself, and I'm sure the police do way more. I would feel confident entering that building if I had to (if it was my job) so I think it's safe to say those men with badges had adequate training.
When shots are ringing, they CAN find the source. it's quiet time that's dangerous to enter. When you KNOW the source of the shooting is down this hallway, you can eliminate all other directions.
Look at all the footage of shootings in progress or shows like dallas swat they always set up around the situation then make a decision. Unless they were there and drawn on and fired at they did what they are trained to do.I agree you would think there is a better way but really and unfortuntly I don't think there is.
Plus 240 you know inside a building the sound of gunfire is muffled and reabounds and with no idea who was doing it if you ran in a crowded building chance are you get shot before you get the target.
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Sure, but it's erroneous to make that assumption; that's a worst-case. Case-by-case, common sense.
Yea bad example but I was trying to use a different way to look at it.