Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: ChrisGlass on April 29, 2007, 08:50:42 AM
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;) Real cool!! Great work all around. Milos, I gave that a try and was WORKED!! I hope to one day take your guidance. The ingredients in the 'glyco- cocktail' would be nice if you have a specific recipe besides applesauce, glutamine, creatine. Thanks.
Truly,
Chris Glass (no relation to Charles)
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;) Real cool!! Great work all around. Milos, I gave that a try and was WORKED!! I hope to one day take your guidance. The ingredients in the 'glyco- cocktail' would be nice if you have a specific recipe besides applesauce, glutamine, creatine. Thanks.
Truly,
Chris Glass (no relation to Charles)
it's nothing more than that, just get the ingredients and mix them, Milos said it was because they had an extra grueling workout and they needed the carbs and sugars to complete the workout.
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wtf are grape aminos??
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Might be true (I dunno what all is in it)...but mixing all the crap together that I do post-workout makes a vile tasting shake.
--Orange Vitargo
--[whatever flavor] protein
--grape aminos
--glutamine
--creatine
Nasty. So if Milos has a "nice" flavor for all that gunk, in one scoop too (instead of me having 5 jungs of stuff), that's worth something.
Same w/ during workout -- what I drink ends up tasting like crap: carb drink, NoXplode, aminos, glutamine. And is another couple of jugs/products.
do yourself a favor and get yourself some BCAA+G from MRM, this shit is awesome, best product i've ever used, 5 grams of BCAA's perserving it's got a lemonade flavor but you have to dump the powder in your mouth and chase it with water i also use AST's creatine post workout.
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lol, aminos you get from grapes you dolt!
no, that's just their flavoring...I couldn't find plain, or no flavor.
There is also that awful orange liquid aminos, but that's just scary.
yeah ok, i was wondering how many tons of grapes you need to get 5g amino acids out of them. ;D ;D ;D
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yummy! So SIX scoops of those powders in my mouth chased down with water.
bleh.
I do that w/ my glutamine (4 scoops at a time) and it bout gags me.
the scoop is TINY, 3 scoops is easier than shit to swallow, easily the best product i've ever used.
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No. Screw you, you're wrong.
Kidding...what's the brand, I'll get some...MRM? wth is that?
Can you PM it to me (like a url)...I gotta go -- training my computer nerd friends ;D ;D ;D
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/mrm/bcaa.html
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you fuckers will try anything I see..if that is the case then MHP glute is the best out there, a little expensive , it has a time release
umm..what is so special Milos' idea..everyone know that PWO shake should be
5 gr creatine, glute, malto, whey, bcaa
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As my free seminar is just 3 weeks away (scheduled for May 19th, 11 AM sharp) I would like to start explaining logic behind some of my supplement formulations, training philosophies, personal experiences and overwhelming data I gathered in the last 2 decades while preparing some of the best professional bodybuilders (and OTHER athletes) for the highest level of their competition...
KNS concept (KNS stands for Koloseum Nutritional Sciences)...which I am about to present is direct result of my day to day experiments and I do believe that it is finally the right time for me to start "talking" (and elaborating my concept)...
This way I will give you some time to consider my claims - and prepare the questions for my seminar...
I will be ready for questioning and open to any suggestions and comments.
KNS CONCEPT:
Nutritional supplementation market became multi billion-dollar industry in recent years.
Countless number of new companies arises every day and “new”, “exciting”, ”breakthrough”, “exotic”, “super” supplements are being discovered almost daily…
Companies are (supposedly) investing “little fortunes” for new research and apparent advances in Nutritional Supplementation are advertised on the pages of various fitness publications as absolutely sensational “must read” news.
American companies are “importing” new, exotic supplements from Europe (Asia or other places) where supposedly athletes from those countries are simply raving about borderline unbelievable benefits from particular products…
While other continents do exactly the opposite and present to their ever-growing supplement market new secrets “made in America”…
Phenomenal increases in muscle mass, strength, body composition changes, fat loss, energy levels and God knows what else are mentioned with clams that would make Headline News: “3777% better than X”, “65 times stronger than Y”, “43.5 times more better absorbed than Z”, “Gain 10 pounds per minute”…or “loose half tone in a day (works for whales too)”….
At the same time is anyone actually reading and/or understanding these flashy advertisements of the companies - which could confuse likes of Albert Einstein, Milos Sarcev and few brilliant biochemists with PhD degree, leading Doctorate candidates of Molecular Biology and possibly even some senior professors in most prestigious and centuries established Universities around the world?
Almost comically complicated yet completely unnecessary terminology and explanations of functionality of their omnipotent, never before seen or experienced superior supplements are used to purposely confuse (scare and intimidate to buy) average consumer.
Typical buyer, a novice bodybuilder (in all reality) would not have a slightest clue what the product really is…or better yet – what that product does…but due to the “popular demand” as told by champion bodybuilding endorsers he/she would certainly make a good choice if he/she simply - ”just do it”.
Starting with the new (never before seen or used) specific delivery systems (better, faster, more efficient way to deliver “something” to “somewhere”), than - kind of technologies (micro, nanotechnology, ato, pico…etc), continuing with some “genetic engineering” hypothesis while quoting certain MGM or MTV pathways, or explaining most efficient way to create dramatic hyperplasia (which is BTW proven NOT to exist in humans) to waking up (oh so important) “dormant” muscle fibers…everything we read on pages of today’s fitness publications is…borderline: laughable.
Another thing I forgot to mention is: in the era when anabolic steroids are “public enemy of the worst kind” supplement companies are able to launch myriad of pro-hormones and pro-anabolic supplements, which in all reality are several fold more dangerous than any registered pharmaceutical anabolic steroid in existence today. Changing the structure of atomic (read “anabolic”) bomb could be potentially more dangerous than the actual…bomb. Don’t you think? Yet, numerous different pro-hormones are coming out almost daily - like they are running out of style…
Simply, while in Pharmacological Industry years (rather - decades) are spent in due research and comprehensive analysis and examination of the new drugs (medicaments) before they could be released to the public - in supplement industry pro-hormones are released without ANY previous studies or data…You want suicide (?) – look no further…
So there you have it…
My partners Rick Robinette, Adam Michelin and I have different approach in mind.
With our KNS (Koloseum Nutritional Sciences) we are going to INSIST that our customers (and consumers of our products) KNOW exactly WHAT, WHEN, WHY and HOW MUCH of the certain KNS products (or supplements of their choice) they should be taking.
We want to educate masses in effort to explain true benefits of particular nutrients as well as - bring more creative minds into the “supplements game” that would possibly contribute in new and this time REAL advances in this could be exciting industry.
This (KNS) way - people would always START asking right questions…and they will finally understand WHAT specific supplement really does…and when or how much they should take it.
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So, why don’t we start?
First line of supplements coming from KNS is our PRE – DURING – POST workout drinks.
Being competitive bodybuilder for more than 25 years and trying to find the edge to be able to compete with world’s best, I had to research DAILY many aspects of exercise physiology, strength training, nutrition (general, clinical, therapeutic and sports), nutritional supplementation and ergogenic aids – with goal to find THE MOST EFECTIVE WAYS to build muscle, loose fat, increase strength, speed, power, stamina, energy, mental acuity, recovery, performance…pretty much EVERYTHING needed to create a “super athlete”.
Interestingly, while I was young athlete in Yugoslavia with very limited literature about the exercise physiology ONE particular aspect of training and nutritional regime (benefiting from nutritional intake immediately before, during and after the exercise) was very logical to me – and FORTUNATELY I started utilizing it almost from the very beginning.
I said “fortunately” as if (indeed) I did have an access to numerous books and research materials about exercise physiology (particularly weight resistance training) I would be persuaded to think differently and do the WRONG thing! Everything written (until just recently) actually contradicts what I have discovered and what I have been practicing for more than two decades…which is sad but true fact.
Later, I am going to correct myself in this statement (as contradiction is only due to wrong interpretation of presented science and/or lack of actual understanding) – but for the time being I must say the most important thing: nobody got the picture that THE BEST TIME to take nutritional supplements is WORKOUT TIME (which is the very reason why KNS choose to start their line of products with specific drinks to be consumed just before, during and immediately after the workout).
Science papers and articles overwhelmingly conclude that single bout of any exercise (training session) is catabolic event. Athlete performing his or hers physical task of choice (dependent on sporting activity) will certainly deplete nutritional stores while training thus creating tissue and nutrient degradation or catabolism.
Namely – all energy stores are being used, as energy demand arises due to strenuous physical activity (weight training) – so starting with the ATP or Adenosine Triphosphate (cellular energy), glycogen (glucose released from carbohydrate storage in muscle and liver) and triglycerides (fat released from body fat storage and intramuscular triglycerides) are all being used for necessary energy expenditure during the exercise.
In addition some amino acids are also being used as a fuel (energy source) – primarily BCAA (Isoleucine, Leucine and Valine) but in situation when both - carbohydrates and fats are absent as energy substrates many other glycogenic amino acids would easily oxidize hence being used as energy nutrient (rather than building material as by structure intended)…
On top of everything else, intense weight resistance training creates tremendous amount of stress where muscle fibers sustain micro-tears (muscle is damaged which also causes tissue swelling or inflammation). This is certainly manifested as muscle destruction or muscle-wasting…exactly the opposite of what trainee wants to accomplish during the training.
Fortunately, as science papers confirm – this catabolic effect during the exercise triggers muscle adaptation and body reacts upon this catabolic situation with anabolism during the resting period after the workout is concluded.
Reportedly, 24 to 48 hours after - body replenishes what was lost and practically supercompensates all the nutrients lost during the bout of the exercise - by storing more ATP, glucose (in glycogen storage) and amino acids than was previously available in our cells and muscle fibers.
Body does it to get prepared for the subsequent loss of the same nutrients caused by that “shock” (intense weight resistance workout).
Well, this theory is widely accepted in science of the exercise physiology and religiously followed by many practitioners (not just bodybuilders but also other athletes as well. Difference among athletes is only in kind of stimulation that muscle fibers get from their respective workouts – but sum of anabolic and catabolic events is pretty much the same).
So, to emphasize again: science tell us to accept that our training will cause catabolism, protein degradation and muscle loss…as well as partially (or completely) depletion of our glycogen and ATP stores.
If we do the right thing (know what to take after the workout) we would be able to turn that catabolic event (exercise) into anabolic result – by replenishing every nutrient lost during the training by somewhat higher amount of each – during the post-workout period.
Well, lets think about something else (the same LOGICAL thought that I had in the very beginning of my bodybuilding career).
What if we conclude that catabolic activity is absolutely NOT acceptable and if one wants to build (construct) something – than tearing it apart (destroying) just doesn’t make much sense…
How about if we NEVER let our body become catabolic and what if we can turn catabolic activity into anabolic by changing only few parameters?
My initial thought was probably the same as every ignorant beginner trainee…
How many novices (beginners) do you know who think that TRAINING builds muscle?
Yes, just about everyone believes (in the beginning) that you grow as you train…you get bigger during the training…
Just after the few weeks (or months) when trainee becomes more serious about his/hers training and starts reading the magazines and “scientific research” he/she realizes the “truth” that even though our muscles get pumped during the exercises and thus look bigger – what actually happens during the workout is exactly the opposite – our muscles get smaller!
Scientific explanation: as we are spending so much energy during the intense workout and loosing all the nutrients – we are in destruction, degradation or catabolic phase, which fortunately could become reversed later (following précised scientific post-exercise anabolic protocols).
What if I tell you that we can completely avoid catabolism during the exercise?
How about if I tell you that following KNS system and using the KNS precise supplements you will not only avoid catabolism but also manage to create anabolic effect even throughout the duration of your workouts?
Better yet – what if I can convince you that you can create HYPERANABOLIC state of the body following our precise guidelines of “pre-during-post” workout protocols?
Did I get your attention?
Well, lets analyze some scientifically proven facts.
I will start with the effects of the intense (weight resistance or many OTHER kinds of) exercise on human body.
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CATABOLIC EVENTS of the exercise:
Energy required for any physical activity must come from some energy source and regardless of the kind it is certain that some SUBSTRATE will be used and therefore depleted. So first on the list of the catabolic events I would point out to be is: SUBSTRATE DEPLETION.
Certainly, most common source of energy would be GLUCOSE (monosaharide /monomer or single molecule of glucose/ – also known as “blood sugar”) – either from immediate carbohydrates taken prior to the workout (solid food, liquid or in supplemental form)…or glucose released from the glycogen storage (muscle and/or liver glycogen…which is glucose bonded with water and stored within body as “carbohydrate reserve)”.
Next, in absence of carbohydrates (glucose) body can utilize also other two macronutrients (protein and fat) as energy delivering substrates – through amino acids and triglycerides (either taken prior to exercise by the way of solid food, nutritional supplements and drinks or released by the body from particular “storage places” or reserves).
Particularly - glycogen depletion is of major importance. For those of you who train and realize that even as little as 6 sets of 10 repetitions per set could potentially deplete as much as 40% of the glycogen stores it is easy to see that “something” should be done about it.
1.) Subsequently – as energy is obviously being used during the bout of the exercise and strenuous physical activity body responds by considerable increase in metabolism.
While most of us will love this “side effect” as it will enable us to loose some body fat in process we must realize that feeding the body with extra calories to be able to perform still means: INREASED METABOLIC RATE which ultimately translates to just another catabolic event.
2.) Definitely THE MOST IMPORTANT catabolic measure will be DECREASED NET PROTEIN BALANCE!
Protein balance is a result of protein synthesis (construction of new proteins) and protein degradation (breakdown of existing protein). While I mentioned that ultimate goal of every trainee is to achieve a positive protein (Nitrogen) balance – during the exercise exactly the opposite happens. Protein degradation will by far exceed protein synthesis hence resulting in the NEGATIVE PROTEIN BALANCE.
Logically, as protein (read AMINO ACIDS – for a valid reason…explained later) is predominant constituent of the muscle fibers and cells loss of protein (amino acid loss) translates into disastrous MUSCLE LOSS.
3.) Final catabolic event in my consideration of exercise caused breakdowns is: IMUNE RESPONSE.
As I mentioned before intense exercise and strong muscle stimulation (especially heavy eccentric contractions) cause stress on the muscle fibers, which results with muscle damage. Tissue swells, gets inflamed and immune system mediators (Neutrophil and Macrophages) are immediately formed to “clean up” the damage. So called “free radicals” are formed and destruction or muscle wasting begins.
ANABOLIC EVENTS of the exercise:
1.) First and most important (especially for KNS system) is the fact that during the exercise there is substantial INCREASE IN THE BLOOD FLOW to the working muscle (HYPEREMIA or simply – pump).
If that blood is also filled with very specific nutrients (of our – KNS choice: with special attention to our proprietary amino acid bland) blood flow additionally increases. Further, intensity of the exercise also affects the blood flow by exponentially increasing the “pump” (raising it to the maximal degree when muscle is contracting with maximal intensity).
Protein degradation is reduced (minimized) while protein synthesis dramatically increases (maximizes) hence so important net protein (nitrogen) balance - skyrockets (first contributing factor of KNS “hyperanabolism”).
I must emphasize that I am still puzzled and truly amazed with discovery that scientist and the athletes are still failing to realize (for decades really) how important or rather – crucial is this fact!
Why in the world (?) would nobody consider taking obligatory PRE and DURING workout nutritional cocktail is beyond my capacity of understanding.
The single most important time, the MOST LOGICAL time to greatly benefit from taking nutritional supplements is still not being accepted (not to this day?) or utilized by majority of athletes!?!?
Certainly, KNS have every intention to revolutionize nutritional supplement industry and make the change – shifting every athlete into new era of : never training ever again without simultaneously sipping “workout drink” (after initial intake of “pre workout” drink and certainly finishing with usual “post workout” shake).
2.) Increase in levels of all anabolic hormones. Most notably – Growth Hormone, IGF-1, Testosterone and last but not least: strongest anabolic hormone INSULIN – so important yet so misunderstood among the athletes and general population.
Insulin, in particular, is hormone of phenomenal importance to hardworking athletes and KNS will reveal true irreplaceable value and astonishing benefits this hormone has on anabolic activity and muscle hypertrophy. Hyperinsulinemic state with supraphisiological amount of insulin caused by précised intake of specific nutrients (YES – again specific bland of Amino Acids mixed with combination of glucose /as monomer and polymer/) will simply transform the athletes of the 21st century in the most dramatic way.
3.) Acute immune response (mentioned as catabolic activity due to tissue swelling, inflammation and destruction of the damaged muscle fibers) becomes ANABOLIC as tissue rebuilding starts almost immediately.
Immune mediators (neutrophils and macrophages) start “cleaning up” the damage and so called “satellite cells” are being mobilized to form new nuclei, repair the damage and create new myofibrils (muscle fibers). Growth factors on site promote healing of damaged cells and fibers and on the long run this muscle damage actually represents opportunity for creation of new, stronger, bigger muscle fibers thus is consider anabolic as well.
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Great info Milos. I've written some articles in Ironman on this very topic. I'm thinking that I should move this thread to the nutrition board.
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Can anyone sum that up in 1 or 2 sentences please?
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Basically there's no reason your body should ever be catabolic...but exercise generally forces your body into a catabolic state.
So the KNS suppliments prevent your body from going into the catabolic state, and instead, takes the opportunity of the additional blood flow to your muscles (generated by the exercise) to pump growth nutrients into them.
The muscles overcompensate for the initial loss by sucking in more than they originally had -- making them grow.
...I think that's an accurate Cliff Notes version. Milos, correct me if I'm wrong...
So what are the ingredients of this KNS?
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No clue...magic beans.
no seriously.
Any kind of food will keep the body from getting catabolic.
dextrose and mixed amino acids during WO are just fine.
Why should i have to invest in a fancy supp?
Milos, anybody?
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...see what I wrote above to SF. No one makes a nice mix. So this is filling a void where there is a need.
...but that's just my basic understanding.
The only difference is that normally in the supplement industry, you pay a 45% fantasy fee on supplements with fancy names and a professional BB behind it.
Mix your own BCAA, dextrose, vitamins, amino acids, creatine and whatever, add the flavor you like and it is still cheaper than buying
"Supermegahorsedogshit" -- 'raises lean body mass by 300% compared to placebo group!!'.
There's too much playing with figures, pseudo scientifical charts and so on and so on. There is not ONE ad in MD of FLEX that i cannot rip apart in 20 seconds.
So Milos, keep it coming. If you can convince me, i'll buy the stuff and post a review.
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The only difference is that normally in the supplement industry, you pay a 45% fantasy fee on supplements with fancy names and a professional BB behind it.
Mix your own BCAA, dextrose, vitamins, amino acids, creatine and whatever, add the flavor you like and it is still cheaper than buying
"Supermegahorsedogshit" -- 'raises lean body mass by 300% compared to placebo group!!'.
There's too much playing with figures, pseudo scientifical charts and so on and so on. There is not ONE ad in MD of FLEX that i cannot rip apart in 20 seconds.
So Milos, keep it coming. If you can convince me, i'll buy the stuff and post a review.
the BCAA's i mentioned are 14 bucks on bb.com and a bottle of AST creatine is only 15 bucks and they both last me more than a month, it doesn't have to be expensive.
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the BCAA's i mentioned are 14 bucks on bb.com and a bottle of AST creatine is only 15 bucks and they both last me more than a month, it doesn't have to be expensive.
Hello?? Do you understande teh english?/
That's what i wrote. Mixing is way cheaper than buying a product, plus when you mix yourself, you can get top notch ingredients. Most supp companies try to sneak in cheap aminos or creatine or whatever.
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Sadly there will be some Cancellations coming soon by ANY and ALL IFBB Pro's who originally thought about being a part of this fiasco. :'(
The Hammer drops on milos in 17hrs.
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Sadly there will be some Cancellations coming soon by ANY and ALL IFBB Pro's who originally thought about being a part of this fiasco. :'(
The Hammer drops on milos in 17hrs.
::) doubt it, pussy ::)
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This Milos guy is a joke
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haha, you're really upset about this cutting into your muscle camp attendance, aren't ya?
*Copy/paste your message everywhere Milos' seminar is posted* meltdown.
Isn't jealousy one of the 7 deadly sins?
::)
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that sucks... I was really looking forward to attending. Shawn, you do realize this affects the fans? Your gonna loose fans bro, what your doing is way chickenshit.
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Great thread !!
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Sadly there will be some Cancellations coming soon by ANY and ALL IFBB Pro's who originally thought about being a part of this fiasco. :'(
The Hammer drops on milos in 17hrs.
But Milos will still be there right?
I don't think most of us really care if the IFBB "drops the hammer".
I'm sure Milos is worried sick. ::)
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I think Xtend is the best BCAA product personally. The watermelon flavor is great.