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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: OzmO on May 01, 2007, 08:45:22 AM
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And we have our "great and wise" ..............."decider" to thank for this!
Discuss. ;D
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No terrorist attack on american soil since the war began.
Argue that numbskulls.
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No terrorist attack on american soil since the war began.
Argue that numbskulls.
I'm sorry, did you not read the topic thread?
::)
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I'm sorry, did you not read the topic thread?
::)
My bad. No, its not the new vietnam.
Bye, time to golf.
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No terrorist attack on american soil since the war began.
Argue that numbskulls.
Hey speaking of numbskulls remember when the Bush administration told us to buy duct tape and plastic wrap to protect ourselves from a chemical weapon?
I wonder if scientists at MIT and Cal Tech approved of that method as well.
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No terrorist attack on american soil since the war began.
Argue that numbskulls.
Did you miss the whole anthrax thing?
Did you miss the attacks on US Embassies? (they are US soil too)
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NO it is certainly not another nam
the iraq was is going exactly as planned
the amreekan government learned their lesson from vietnam, namely you cannot win a war with a high US casualty rate being broadcast daily... thats why you have about 3 soldiers dying a day ... that doesnt mean anything in the greater scheme of things
the idea in iraq is to keep a level of chaos as a pretext to keep your soldiers and infrastructure there to secure the resources in that region and prepare to invade iran
do not be fooled by the smoke and mirrors you see in the mainstream media ... you aint leaving there ... and if you have a troop pull out mercs will replace them so its all the same
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Hey speaking of numbskulls remember when the Bush administration told us to buy duct tape and plastic wrap to protect ourselves from a chemical weapon?
I wonder if scientists at MIT and Cal Tech approved of that method as well.
fuc totally forgot about that, everywhere was out of duct tape, what was the plan? tape over air conditioning vents and protect windows, oh brother.
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NO it is certainly not another nam
the iraq was is going exactly as planned
the amreekan government learned their lesson from vietnam, namely you cannot win a war with a high US casualty rate being broadcast daily... thats why you have about 3 soldiers dying a day ... that doesnt mean anything in the greater scheme of things
the idea in iraq is to keep a level of chaos as a pretext to keep your soldiers and infrastructure there to secure the resources in that region and prepare to invade iran
do not be fooled by the smoke and mirrors you see in the mainstream media ... you aint leaving there ... and if you have a troop pull out mercs will replace them so its all the same
In other words they were concerned about casualties in nam, but they sure as hell aren't here.
3-6 soliders dead a day is nothing if it's an excuse for the us to stay there and gorge on all that oil..
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fuc totally forgot about that, everywhere was out of duct tape, what was the plan? tape over air conditioning vents and protect windows, oh brother.
Yep, plastic wrap over windows and vents held on with duct tape. And we were all supposed to run out and stock up on these incredible chemical weapon fighting tools. ::)
Another beauty was all the Code Blue or Code Red or whatever they were that the administration would call. All citizens were supposed to search the highways and byways for "anything suspicious". Another genius level terrorist prevention tool. I'm surprised people weren't killed.
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In other words they were concerned about casualties in nam, but they sure as hell aren't here.
3-6 soliders dead a day is nothing if it's an excuse for the us to stay there and gorge on all that oil..
yes and no ... i doubt they gave a fuck about a bunch of "hick spiks and ni88ers" dying ... rather tehy cared about domestic opposition which skyrocketed cause nam was the first war where you had live daily in your face footage of the death and destruction war causes ... people dont give a shit when they dont have to see it ... but when they do lookout
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i think so its even worse than vietnam...
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No gooks saying Love me long time makes Iraq worse ..
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And we have our "great and wise" ..............."decider" to thank for this!
Discuss. ;D
Yes there is plenty of doubt. We've already achieved our primary military objective in Iraq. We have not managed the war properly, but a new government is in place and we're moving towards letting them take primary responsibility for this quagmire. It's possible Iraq could become another Vietnam, but I don't think we're anywhere near that point.
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No terrorist attack on american soil since the war began.
Argue that numbskulls.
irrelevent
there haven't been any attacks by Godzilla either
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Yes there is plenty of doubt. We've already achieved our primary military objective in Iraq. We have not managed the war properly, but a new government is in place and we're moving towards letting them take primary responsibility for this quagmire. It's possible Iraq could become another Vietnam, but I don't think we're anywhere near that point.
We had achived military victory in Vietnam too, it was a gurilla war remember? We controlled all the major cites except the jungle, it was a democratic government in power, we fought along side the SVA just like in Iraq....And just think we are about to let them handle things on their own just like we did with Vietnam.......how is this not different?
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We had achived military victory in Vietnam too, it was a gurilla war remember? We controlled all the major cites except the jungle, it was a democratic government in power, we fought along side the SVA just like in Iraq....And just think we are about to let them handle things on their own just like we did with Vietnam.......how is this not different?
What was our objective in Vietnam? Wasn't it to unify the north and south? We failed, no? And we lost over 58,000 service members. Millions of Vietnamese died. That hardly compares to Iraq, where we steamrolled the Iraqi army, removed Saddam, captured him, the Iraqi people tried and executed him, a new government has been installed, and the Iraqi military and police will eventually take primarily responsibility.
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Hey speaking of numbskulls remember when the Bush administration told us to buy duct tape and plastic wrap to protect ourselves from a chemical weapon?
I wonder if scientists at MIT and Cal Tech approved of that method as well.
I don't know about MIT and Cal Tech but the military approves of it. We cover any equipment that we can't get under cover in plastic and tape in case of a chem attack.
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as much as i agree the whole thing is a sham and a lie, it's a necessary one.
and i think the lies are necessary because 90% of america will only support the war if it lines up with their moral compass. "spreading democracy" does this. However, "securing resources and global positioning" is something they don't get.
it's basically like giving your kid medicine mixed with candy. He cannot understand the body's response to medicine nor the necessity of it for him to feel better. He just understands what tastes good to his taste buds. Most people are like that, and the daddies that run govt know this. They also know there are smart kids who will figure out medicine - and their solution to it is to ignore them and let the dumb candy-loving children mock them for their crazy Candy Theories.
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the Iraqi military and police will eventually take primarily responsibility.
Not anymore.
That facet of the mission was turned off last week in a very quiet announcement. We're there to stay, hotshot.
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Not anymore.
That facet of the mission was turned off last week in a very quiet announcement. We're there to stay, hotshot.
Is there anyone here that thinks the Democrats if elected will actually withdraw the troops? I don't think they will.
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If we are there to stay then we need to put this back into the regular budget. No more special appropriations bullshit while Bush pretends he reducing the budget deficit
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If we are there to stay then we need to put this back into the regular budget. No more special appropriations bullshit while Bush pretends he reducing the budget deficit
I agree with 240, there is no If.
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Is there anyone here that thinks the Democrats if elected will actually withdraw the troops? I don't think they will.
the democrats will absolutely NOT withdraw troops.
Hilary has known all along. Obama finally caught the brain train last week and is finally "playing ball" and talking about the need to disarm (read: disoil) iran. Edwards plays ball too.
The fringe guys like Gravel and Kuscinich are fun to watch, but the firms that give big dollars know the score too, so they're not gonna put any money with these men, whose war plans are morally right but economically wrong.
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I agree with 240, there is no If.
and the dems are just playing wordgames with this "withdraw suggestion" thing.
and bush is just trying to fire up his base by rejecting a non-binding date suggestion.
Truth is, everyone with any decision making power knows we are in the region for oil that we need to survive as a high-consumption nation. The guys in charge have decided it's not quite time for an ethanol transition. It's their call that a megawar for 100 tril (easily iraq + iran) is more cost effective than redoing the US energy system for corn fuel.
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Not anymore.
That facet of the mission was turned off last week in a very quiet announcement. We're there to stay, hotshot.
Obviously. We will always have a presence.
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Obviously. We will always have a presence.
yeah, but this news was big in that we are halting training programs. They got tired of hearing "It's been two years and you have not yet assembled a Baghdad police force?" so they just closed down the program.
HA!
There's a way to ensure you'll always be needed. Close the police academy and tell everyone you're the only law in town.
This also removes the middle option (remove US troops from cities, let iraqis guard them, and pull our men to borders, bases, and pipeline) that I've been calling for the last year, which many democrats wanted and were talking about in the last year. Bush just turned off that option. Very odd. Now, you either support staying, or a collapse - but that third option of 'let them rebuild their security forces' is gone now.
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I don't know about MIT and Cal Tech but the military approves of it. We cover any equipment that we can't get under cover in plastic and tape in case of a chem attack.
Wow, that makes me feel better because I'm glad to know that the military uses a method that doesn't really work.
Here's just one little quote from the the University of Utah, it's just one the many that I found.
Myth #3: A mask, plastic sheeting, and some duct tape will save you from a biological attack.
Weaponized biological agents are typically one to five microns (0.0001 cm or 0.00003937 inch) in diameter. The Department of Homeland Security suggests wearing a dense-weave cotton mask to help filter contaminants. Such a mask is a barrier only to particles thousands of microns or larger in size. In addition, partitioning off a room with plastic sheeting and duct tape can slow the movement of air from outside to inside, but it will by no means seal the area from outside air.
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/features/biowarfare/ (http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/features/biowarfare/)
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Wow, that makes me feel better because I'm glad to know that the military uses a method that doesn't really work.
Here's just one little quote from the the University of Utah, it's just one the many that I found.
Myth #3: A mask, plastic sheeting, and some duct tape will save you from a biological attack.
Weaponized biological agents are typically one to five microns (0.0001 cm or 0.00003937 inch) in diameter. The Department of Homeland Security suggests wearing a dense-weave cotton mask to help filter contaminants. Such a mask is a barrier only to particles thousands of microns or larger in size. In addition, partitioning off a room with plastic sheeting and duct tape can slow the movement of air from outside to inside, but it will by no means seal the area from outside air.
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/features/biowarfare/ (http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/features/biowarfare/)
When I was in Korea, the Army was doing tests on this. What they found is that Chems tend to come down in "globs" and not a fine mist. The plastic was perfect. If you want to hear more PM me.
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What was our objective in Vietnam? Wasn't it to unify the north and south? We failed, no? And we lost over 58,000 service members. Millions of Vietnamese died. That hardly compares to Iraq, where we steamrolled the Iraqi army, removed Saddam, captured him, the Iraqi people tried and executed him, a new government has been installed, and the Iraqi military and police will eventually take primarily responsibility.
It was not to unify north and south, it was to stop the spread of communism. We fight wars like this different now, resulting in less casualties due to tactics and technology, but they are the same in principle. We easily could be looking at 15,000 dead if this was with Vietnam era tactics and equipment.
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Oil is good, WMDs are bad
LOL at your sigline, ieffinhatecardio.
have you become a war hawk after learning of the necessity of their oil for our economy? lol...
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It was not to unify north and south, it was to stop the spread of communism. We fight wars like this different now, resulting in less casualties due to tactics and technology, but they are the same in principle. We easily could be looking at 15,000 dead if this was with Vietnam era tactics and equipment.
O.K. If the military objective was to stop the spread of communism, we failed. And you're discrediting your own premise: the fact that we learned from mistakes in Vietnam and as a result have suffered far fewer casualties means Iraq is not the new Vietnam.
I'll never forget the talk we had on day 1 of basic training by some colonel. His first words were "you are here to prepare for war." Talk about sobering comments. He then showed us some clips and talked about "Task Force Smith." If I recall correctly, this was an operation in Vietnam where our soldiers were not properly trained, were unprepared, and got slaughtered. He repeated the line "No More Task Force Smiths" about 50 times. I'll always remember that.
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O.K. If the military objective was to stop the spread of communism, we failed. And you're discrediting your own premise: the fact that we learned from mistakes in Vietnam and as a result have suffered far fewer casualties means Iraq is not the new Vietnam.
I'll never forget the talk we had on day 1 of basic training by some colonel. His first words were "you are here to prepare for war." Talk about sobering comments. He then showed us some clips and talked about "Task Force Smith." If I recall correctly, this was an operation in Vietnam where our soldiers were not properly trained, were unprepared, and got slaughtered. He repeated the line "No More Task Force Smiths" about 50 times. I'll always remember that.
I agree with you 100% on what you saying here save the "my own premise" part. My point is the quagmire we are in resembles Vietnam.
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I agree with you 100% on what you saying here save the "my own premise" part. My point is the quagmire we are in resembles Vietnam.
We learned as far as tactics go, but we didn't learn as far as the overall picture goes.
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I agree with you 100% on what you saying here save the "my own premise" part. My point is the quagmire we are in resembles Vietnam.
There are definitely similarities. I think if your topic was "is there any doubt that Iraq resembles Vietnam," I would probably agree. :) But I do think it's an overstatement to say Iraq = Vietnam.
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There are definitely similarities. I think if your topic was "is there any doubt that Iraq resembles Vietnam," I would probably agree. :) But I do think it's an overstatement to say Iraq = Vietnam.
point taken. I agree and now I've changed it.
;D
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point taken. I agree and now I've changed it.
;D
Cool. I agree. :)
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Task Force Smith was the task force hastily put together in response to the N. Korean invasion of the south. They were wearing summer weight clothing, weaposn of WW2 era and some units had smoke rounds that they used against NK armor..complete disaster. Most troops came from the occupation force in Japan. Anyway..as far as Vietnam goes..by the end of 1968 the VC were decimated as an effective fighting force. This was another aim of the NVA..as they knew that the VC would present a problem once they took over the south. By 1970 we were as good if not better fighting the guerrillas. But public opinion was solidly against the war with no hope of return...folks were against thew war not because it was in ur face as the drive by historians would suggest but because there was a draft..once the draft ended..the peace movement lost its teeth. We could have won that war easier then this one.
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Task Force Smith was the task force hastily put together in response to the N. Korean invasion of the south. They were wearing summer weight clothing, weaposn of WW2 era and some units had smoke rounds that they used against NK armor..complete disaster. Most troops came from the occupation force in Japan. Anyway..as far as Vietnam goes..by the end of 1968 the VC were decimated as an effective fighting force. This was another aim of the NVA..as they knew that the VC would present a problem once they took over the south. By 1970 we were as good if not better fighting the guerrillas. But public opinion was solidly against the war with no hope of return...folks were against thew war not because it was in ur face as the drive by historians would suggest but because there was a draft..once the draft ended..the peace movement lost its teeth. We could have won that war easier then this one.
Thanks for the clarification: Task Force Smith was Korea, not Vietnam. Couldn't remember.
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We still say no task force Smith's its kinda funny.
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We still say no task force Smith's its kinda funny.
That is funny, in kind of a morbid way. :) I still remember it from many moons ago.
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Task Force Smith was the task force hastily put together in response to the N. Korean invasion of the south. They were wearing summer weight clothing, weaposn of WW2 era and some units had smoke rounds that they used against NK armor..complete disaster. Most troops came from the occupation force in Japan. Anyway..as far as Vietnam goes..by the end of 1968 the VC were decimated as an effective fighting force. This was another aim of the NVA..as they knew that the VC would present a problem once they took over the south. By 1970 we were as good if not better fighting the guerrillas. But public opinion was solidly against the war with no hope of return...folks were against thew war not because it was in ur face as the drive by historians would suggest but because there was a draft..once the draft ended..the peace movement lost its teeth. We could have won that war easier then this one.
Load of rubbish - you couldn't win the war in Vietnam because a majority of the Vietnamese people didn't want you there and were prepared to do something about it (including die). Same as what is happening in iraq really.