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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Mr. Intenseone on May 08, 2007, 09:38:46 PM
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I doubt the Liberals on this board will read this, but............
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007540
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dude, the war is a stall to get the pipeline in. everything else is theater. all the support here by politicians is to get the conservative base to nominate you for president. all the non-support is to get votes from 72% of the gen pop. Everyone knows we're there for the long run.
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dude, the war is a stall to get the pipeline in. everything else is theater. all the support here by politicians is to get the conservative base to nominate you for president. all the non-support is to get votes from 72% of the gen pop. Everyone knows we're there for the long run.
Didn't read it did ya?
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I did. It's an attempt at revisionist history. They're attempting to re-sell the facts (of Feith, WMD, libby, etc) in order to drum up support past 30%.
We needed the war and the average american couldn't rub his brain cells together and understand the reasons, and we didn't want UN heat on our back. So, we made up bullshit reasons (which were called lies at the time, and have been proven to be lies now) to fight, we got our fight, and it's going as planned.
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I doubt the Liberals on this board will read this, but............
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007540
Excellent. It is absolutely incredible how liberals in Congress and certain segments of the media have been able to spin this whole "lie" nonsense.
So who is lying? I'd say Harry Reid (among others).
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I doubt the Liberals on this board will read this, but............
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007540
If I'm not mistaken......The WSJ (which I read daily) is very Neocon.
In fact, R. Murdoch from "Faux" News is attempting to buy the WSJ.
IMHO, zero credibility remains in this WSJ "opinion".
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dude, the war is a stall to get the pipeline in. everything else is theater. all the support here by politicians is to get the conservative base to nominate you for president. all the non-support is to get votes from 72% of the gen pop. Everyone knows we're there for the long run.
That's a blanket statement if I've ever seen one... You seem to always think you know why things are goin on and it changes every few months. Yes we may be doing something with a pipeline but do you think that's the only cause for all of this, I highly doubt it. We are getting allot of shit done that's in our best interest and a pipeline may be only a small part of a bigger picture. BTW on the way home from work at a gas station this guy was handing out cards with like 18 videos to download from Google that are about 9/11 and all that, it says at the bottom (for after you have viewed them all) "I'm happy you found the TRUTH and the LIBERATING insight to survive" then the guys name and phone #. You ever get anything like that?
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I am not convinced that Congress's investigation into the truth of the operations of the Office of Special Plans was complete.
Retired Lt. Col. Karen Kwiatowski worked along with the OSP and determined that it was a whitewash office creating disinformation.
Reporter Sy Hersh, who exposed Abu Ghraib and Guantonomo torture stories reported the same thing from other sources.
The accusation of lying is a difficult one to pin on political figures.
That's why I stand by the assertion that the Bush Administration broke the law by ordering the attack on Iraq before the WMD inspectors finished their jobs.
Whether Bush, Clinton, Cheney, Reid or the man in the moon believed Iraq had WMDs or not is TOTALLY IMMATERIAL to the charge that Bush ordered an illegal invasion.
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That's a blanket statement if I've ever seen one... You seem to always think you know why things are goin on and it changes every few months. Yes we may be doing something with a pipeline but do you think that's the only cause for all of this, I highly doubt it. We are getting allot of shit done that's in our best interest and a pipeline may be only a small part of a bigger picture. BTW on the way home from work at a gas station this guy was handing out cards with like 18 videos to download from Google that are about 9/11 and all that, it says at the bottom (for after you have viewed them all) "I'm happy you found the TRUTH and the LIBERATING insight to survive" then the guys name and phone #. You ever get anything like that?
The pipeline es numero uno. Coming in second are striking positions on Iran and even India and China. ;)
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The pipeline es numero uno. Coming in second are striking positions on Iran and even India and China. ;)
OK mister government insider ::)
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OK mister government insider ::)
Okay.. Then why don't you give us the key reasons why we're still there?
Is it to breed more insurgents and give more excuses for people to hate us?
Is it to bring democracy to the Iraqi people? :-\
Is it because the american people give a damn about Iraq?
Take the fucking 'THESE COLORS DON'T RUN' sticker off of your pickup and wake the fuck up.
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actually mike, it's no big secret. Everytime you hear a politician talk about "our interests in the region", they mean oil and war positioning should we need it. If China could take us out without being hit back, they would in a minute. They'd own the global economy. ANd they blew up a satellite recently- that's scary. Suppose china took down 80 of our satellites at once and set off a bunch of nukes (brought in thru mex border) in key places, then launched the full arsenal. we'd be fvcked, and retaliatory capacity would be very limited.
The fact they know our bases in Iraq and Afghanistan would clean their plate is a helluva deterrant. I want the bases there, because I know other nations won't sneak attack us, as we have means of retaliation in their backyard.
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Okay.. Then why don't you give us the key reasons why we're still there?
Is it to breed more insurgents and give more excuses for people to hate us?
Is it to bring democracy to the Iraqi people? :-\
Is it because the american people give a damn about Iraq?
Take the fucking 'THESE COLORS DON'T RUN' sticker off of your pickup and wake the fuck up.
Hey I don't head any top government agencies therefore I don't make guesses or opinions and state them as fact douche bag.
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actually mike, it's no big secret. Everytime you hear a politician talk about "our interests in the region", they mean oil and war positioning should we need it. If China could take us out without being hit back, they would in a minute. They'd own the global economy. ANd they blew up a satellite recently- that's scary. Suppose china took down 80 of our satellites at once and set off a bunch of nukes in key places, then launched the full arsenal. we'd be fvcked, and retaliatory capacity would be very limited.
The fact they know our bases in Iraq and Afghanistan would clean their plate is a helluva deterrant. I want the bases there, because I know other nations won't sneak attack us, as we have means of retaliation in their backyard.
I understand all that but I just don't think this is all about just a pipeline, but I think the pipeline is def a part of it all. Only time will tell.
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I understand all that but I just don't think this is all about just a pipeline, but I think the pipeline is def a part of it all. Only time will tell.
It's 50/50. We get to manage 75 trillion (or more, as they just upgraded the reserve size estimates) of oil in a time oil is running out. That's bitchin'.
We get to set up bases in a position where we can take out anything in Russia, China, India, Africa, or Europe very quickly. That's insurance that no one is gonna pre-empt us in this time of dwindling global resources.
EVERY AMERICAN supports these 2 goals, whether he admits or understands it, or not. We want gas, and we want to know chinese nukes aren't going to ruin our day. Taking Iraq provides that. They used the WMD story to justify it, of course. But it's working. IMO, every American should do 2 things: 1) Admit we need these things, and 2) Admit we are taking them.
To deny their need shows ignorance. To deny our actions shows a lack of courage or honesty with self.
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Yeah 240 and who would they trade with...they already enjoy economic hegemony over much of SE Asia. Besides I think we're opening something like 6 Walmarts a month over there. They can acomplish what they want with cash.
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Yeah 240 and who would they trade with...they already enjoy economic hegemony over much of SE Asia. Besides I think we're opening something like 6 Walmarts a month over there. They can acomplish what they want with cash.
are you kidding? The US has a stranglehold on most of the world's resources and a d*ck in the ass of most world leaders. We own em. If there was no US, China would grab every one of these relationships, and more. They have a billion people, most of whom work very hard and live in squalor. You give them the fuel, technology, intellectual resources, etc from America and they take over the world - especially in light of their recent friendship treaty with Russia and Iran.
If China could remove US competition and resource locks instantly, they would. But our bases there mean they can't.
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Completely disagree..besides these folks are very patient. Given a few years and that rapid growth of their economy they won't need to resort to military action. They have a very large and rapidly growing military.But... it is very inexperienced. They have some area's where they are on the cutting edge..anti-satelite and anti-information systems warefare. They have a small Blue water navy. They are a threat to Taiwan but i think they will wait it out.
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...EVERY AMERICAN supports these 2 goals, whether he admits or understands it, or not. We want gas, and we want to know chinese nukes aren't going to ruin our day. Taking Iraq provides that. They used the WMD story to justify it, of course. But it's working. IMO, every American should do 2 things: 1) Admit we need these things, and 2) Admit we are taking them.
To deny their need shows ignorance. To deny our actions shows a lack of courage or honesty with self.
I do not support those goals.
However my tax dollars do support those goals. That's why I rail against the Bush administration and its war.
In short, I do believe that the american way of life is self-indulgent and decadently so regarding oil. That can change. And as for China and nukes, MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) is still an effective deterrent.
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Well before I go off halfed cocked what do u support. Do u see any war as being justified...Do u see locking up a a relieable energy source in an unstable region a good thing for the US. Do u see the Islamofascists as a threat....
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Well before I go off halfed cocked what do u support. Do u see any war as being justified...Do u see locking up a a relieable energy source in an unstable region a good thing for the US. Do u see the Islamofascists as a threat....
I like the law. There’s something noble about the beauty of Justice realized.
A war is legally justified when we are attacked, threatened with imminent attack, defending an ally (includes ongoing genocide) or the like. It is arguable that any major military excursion after WWII has been unconstitutional—that’s only if you’re a strict constructionist of the US Constitution.
Locking up a reliable energy source by conquering a foreign country disgusts me. It flies in the face of the law, the free market, and basic fairness.
I don’t see Islamofascists as a threat b/c that’s a term of propaganda. I try not to use propaganda.
I see Al Qaeda as a threat. Not a terrific threat, not yet, but a threat nonetheless.
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One more question before i debate u...u don't believe 911 CT stuff otherwise nothing we debate will have any basis.
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One more question before i debate u...u don't believe 911 CT stuff otherwise nothing we debate will have any basis.
I believe that someone had foreknowledge of the event. Why? Look at all the put options on the airlines that scored after the attack.
I also have questions about how our state-of-the-art national defense web couldn't track and destroy the hijacked airplanes. Year in and year out half of the US's budget is spent on defense.
Normal procedures for handling an attack were not executed on 9/11.
I think those are reasonable points and questions. If that disqualifies me, well, what's a guy to do?
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In a perfect world u would be right however....
Nobody not us not the folks in Europe, except fro the timy countries actually practice this crap. They may say the right thing but usually when they can take a swipe at the US because they are jealous of lost glories. Any country will, if they can try and exert some manner of control over natural resources. Everybody has done it at some point in their history. We doing it now but so has everybody else. And before u make the argument that its still doesn't make it right...if we don't somebody else will and we won't be calling the shots. If u don't want us to be a superpower then thats one thing but in order to maintain the standard of living that we enjoy..sometimes we have to do what we have to do. As for the Islamics..they are a HUGE threat to the WEst..not just us but Europe as well.
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Nope those are pretty reasonable......We don't prepare fro the type of attack that was launched on 911. NNORAD was set up to look at outside threats first. Yes they can tract jets I guess but were not doing so 0n 911. They expect to see Nukes not Boeing 707's. They expect to see a massive ground fire..follow by inbound missle tracks. They then try to quickly confirm with our other allies etc. None of this was seen on 911 and by the time the jets hiut it was to late and chaos ensued,
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In a perfect world u would be right however....
Nobody not us not the folks in Europe, except fro the timy countries actually practice this crap. They may say the right thing but usually when they can take a swipe at the US because they are jealous of lost glories. Any country will, if they can try and exert some manner of control over natural resources. Everybody has done it at some point in their history. We doing it now but so has everybody else. And before u make the argument that its still doesn't make it right...if we don't somebody else will and we won't be calling the shots. If u don't want us to be a superpower then thats one thing but in order to maintain the standard of living that we enjoy..sometimes we have to do what we have to do. As for the Islamics..they are a HUGE threat to the WEst..not just us but Europe as well.
The US sets the tone and the bar for excellence in the world. That's why people are dying to come here, live, and contribute to this great experiment.
So Iraq's oil is there for the picking? If not by the US, then by China or Russia? The United Nations' charter strongly concerns maintaining peace and security. We've attacked Iraq twice under that rubric. If China or Russia attacked Iraq to steal its oil, we could step in to defend against the attack. Leave the Iraqi oil to the Iraqis and the operation of the free market.
So you advocate conquering Iraq, killing some of its citizenry, permitting lawlessness, and commandeering Iraqi infrastructure to maintain your comfortable way of life?
We part company on that assertion.
Al Qaeda is an organized crime family. It is a police problem.
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Nope those are pretty reasonable......We don't prepare fro the type of attack that was launched on 911. NNORAD was set up to look at outside threats first. Yes they can tract jets I guess but were not doing so 0n 911. They expect to see Nukes not Boeing 707's. They expect to see a massive ground fire..follow by inbound missle tracks. They then try to quickly confirm with our other allies etc. None of this was seen on 911 and by the time the jets hiut it was to late and chaos ensued,
Possibly.
However, Kamikaze attacks have been around since WWII. When other planes go off of the flight plan, not to mention breach secured airspace (downtown NY or Washington), planes are routinely scrambled to determine whether it's a mistake or a threat.
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Not especially..i'm not exactly in favor of how we have conducted this war either. AQ is a terror threat and all resources should be used to stop em.
As for your second post..yeah now..not before 911 and it was way to late to stop these guys..atleast in New York
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Not especially..i'm not exactly in favor of how we have conducted this war either. AQ is a terror threat and all resources should be used to stop em.
As for your second post..yeah now..not before 911 and it was way to late to stop these guys..atleast in New York
Al Qaeda is not an Iraqi problem. Tying AQ to Iraq was one of the 'lies' Mr. Bush promulgated in the run up to invasion.
I agree with you about destroying Al Qaeda.
Gore Vidal sums up pretty well the questions about the unnatural course of events on 9/11.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/EnemyWithin.html
I apologize for the length of this excerpt:
By around 8:15am it should be very apparent that something is terribly wrong. The President is glad-handling teachers. By 8:45am, when American Airlines Flight 11 crashes into the [North Tower], Bush is settling in with children for his photo ops . . . Four planes have obviously been hijacked simultaneously . . . and one has just dived into the . . . twin towers, and still no one notifies the nominal Commander-in-Chief.
`No one has apparently scrambled [sent aloft] Air Force interceptors either. At 9:03, . . . Flight 175 crashes into the [South Tower]. At 9:05 Andrew Card, the . . . Chief of Staff whispers to . . . Bush [who] "briefly turns somber" according to reporters. Does he cancel the school visit and convene an emergency meeting? No. He resumes listening to second-graders . . . and continues the banality even as American Airlines Flight 77 conducts an unscheduled point turn over Ohio and heads in the direction of Washington DC.
`Has he instructed Chief of Staff Card to scramble the Air Force? No. An excruciating 25 minutes later, he finally deigns to give a public statement telling the United States what they have already figured out; that there's been an attack by hijacked planes on the World Trade Center. There's a hijacked plane bee-lining to Washington, but has the Air Force been scrambled to defend anything yet? No. . . .
`At 9:35, this plane conducts another turn, 360 degrees over the Pentagon, all the while being tracked by radar, and the Pentagon is not evacuated, and there are still no fast-movers from the Air Force in the sky over Alexandria and DC. Now, the real kicker: A pilot they want us to believe was trained at a Florida puddle-jumper school for Piper Cubs and Cessnas, conducts a well-controlled downward spiral, descending the last 7,000 feet in two-and-a-half minutes, brings the plane in so low and flat that it clips the electrical wires across the street from the Pentagon, and flies it with pinpoint accuracy into the side of the building at 460 nauts.
`When the theory about learning to fly this well at the puddle-jumper school began to lose ground, it was added that they received further training on a flight simulator. This is like saying you prepared your teenager for her first drive on [the freeway] at rush hour by buying her a video driving game . . . There is a story being constructed about these events.'
________________________ ________
Do I agree with all of that? No. But I do have questions like the ones I posted before.
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There are some weird or disturbing thinmgs but I figure people are generally paniced, slightly incompetent and scared and didn't know how to react.
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There are some weird or disturbing thinmgs but I figure people are generally paniced, slightly incompetent and scared and didn't know how to react.
I know what you mean. But by the same token, we have the finest military in the world. They are trained to operate under most extreme conditions.
Incompetence that runs for about an hour btn the first knowledge of the hijacking and the first impact on the towers is very difficult to accept.
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Yeah but it wasn't a military thing right off and the mechanism's that existed to launch jets and do what needed to be done were very clunky. Its not like the coild war where we had Iterceptors ready...and Bomber crews on 30 min recall.
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Yeah but it wasn't a military thing right off and the mechanism's that existed to launch jets and do what needed to be done were very clunky. Its not like the coild war where we had Iterceptors ready...and Bomber crews on 30 min recall.
It is sad that we amateurs have to sit here and conjecture as to the nature of the response to the attacks.
I'd say that's a pretty fair indictment of the official 9/11 report.
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hh6,
I wrote up a detailed responses to your point which showed more than incompetences on 911, the 48 minutes of inaction at the pentagon after the planes hit etc...
then i deleted it. Cause you're serving our nation, and if you find out 911 was allowed to happen, suddenly it hurts our nations interests. So keep on doing what you do. But when you get out, read the "911 report: Ommissions and Distortions" which very clearly lists the holes in the air times and the standdowns on that day, plus multiple contradictions on the stand about it. Godspeed.
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I believe that someone had foreknowledge of the event. Why? Look at all the put options on the airlines that scored after the attack.
I also have questions about how our state-of-the-art national defense web couldn't track and destroy the hijacked airplanes. Year in and year out half of the US's budget is spent on defense.
Normal procedures for handling an attack were not executed on 9/11.
I think those are reasonable points and questions. If that disqualifies me, well, what's a guy to do?
Don't say anymore Decker. I respect you and would hate for you to carry to CT nut label. :D
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Don't say anymore Decker. I respect you and would hate for you to carry to CT nut label. :D
It's mutual I'm sure.
My points/questions are a matter of record. There's nothing to dispute. They are factual assertions.
I believe that the inadequate explanation from our government has fueled conspiracy theories.
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It's mutual I'm sure.
My points/questions are a matter of record. There's nothing to dispute. They are factual assertions.
I believe that the inadequate explanation from our government has fueled conspiracy theories.
I don't think the government's explanation makes a hill of beans difference to CT nuts. There are those who believe almost every attack/major event involves some sort of sinister government plot. We could have another five investigations and you would still have people claiming the government was behind this stuff. We have an element in our society that feeds on the paranoid belief that the government is constantly planning various ways to kill Americans.
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240 i'm never getting out or atleast for another 15 years or so..so i guess I'm doomed. Anyway shouldn't u be tacking boards to your house..ur in Florida right?
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aw crap, we got a storm coming? I live in a cat6 house, it can withstand like 175 mph. we played football in the last one.
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East or west coast..my mom lives in naples...this one is coming toward the east.
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East or west coast..my mom lives in naples...this one is coming toward the east.
oh cool, i live near naples. she must have had a very hazy day yesterday from the wildfires all over the state. show her ya care and call and check on her. I called my mom and checked on her.
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aw crap, we got a storm coming? I live in a cat6 house, it can withstand like 175 mph. we played football in the last one.
It's clear and 92 here :D
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It's clear and 92 here :D
we get hurricanes in FL, and you get earthquakes in Cali.
I'm moving to NJ. I bet that's the perfect environment.
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Funny she called me worring i was flooded but she mentioned the fires. I'm in KC
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we get hurricanes in FL, and you get earthquakes in Cali.
I'm moving to NJ. I bet that's the perfect environment.
If you move to Jersey you get either robbed and beat up by ####### or by the State Police ;D
Good thing you have a gun for the first group.