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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: loco on May 10, 2007, 06:31:41 AM
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http://etenent.com/Documents/Bible_Desk/proof_bible_true.htm#1-testimony
2 Peter 1:20,21 KNOWING THIS FIRST, THAT NO PROPHECY OF THE SCRIPTURE IS OF ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION. FOR THE PROPHECY CAME NOT IN OLD TIME BY THE WILL OF MAN: BUT HOLY MEN OF GOD SPAKE AS THEY WERE MOVED BY THE HOLY GHOST. O FOOLS, AND SLOW OF HEART TO BELIEVE ALL THAT THE PROPHETS HAVE SPOKEN-Lk 24:25. However, believing there is a God and acknowledging the Bible is the Word of God does not save a person. A person needs to repent of their sins and receive Jesus Christ as their only hope of being saved. This is done by faith.
Let’s prove the Bible is true and that we are nearing the end of the last generation before Christ returns.
1. The Jewish people would be scattered worldwide; yet Israel would become a nation again-ref Isa 66:8; Mic 5:3. Prophecy fulfilled. This happened exactly as predicted on May 14, 1948. That’s 1 out of 1.
Note: Israel was destroyed in approximately 721 B.C. and Judah about 135 years later. For the last 2500 years, approximately fourteen different peoples have possessed the land of Israel. Nevertheless, the Bible showed that the day would come when the nation of Israel would be reborn.
The rebirth of Israel was a key sign, indicating we had entered a time period called the latter days. It was the beginning of a countdown leading to the Tribulation and culminating with the Battle of Armageddon and the return of Jesus immediately after. Along with the fulfillment of this crucial event are over 360 prophecies that would all come together, so we might recognize that the Tribulation is very close at hand. Twenty nine of them are listed here.
Yet the Bible foretells that most people would not believe these things, despite the overwhelming evidence of the fulfillment of the signs from God’s Word and the incredible rebirth of Israel happening exactly as predicted. As people refused to believe the flood was coming in Noah’s time, so people today willingly choose to disregard the signs of the times.
2. Israel shall be brought forth in one day, at once-ref Isa 66:8. Prophecy fulfilled-May 14, 1948. That’s 2 out of 2.
Note: On Nov. 29, 1947, the General Assembly of the U.N. approved a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. On the morning of May 14, 1948 (the last day of the British mandate), a meeting of the People’s Council took place in Israel to decide on the name of the state and to finalize the declaration. At exactly 4pm, the proclamation ceremony began at the Tel Aviv museum. The 979 Hebrew words of the Scroll of Independence were read. All stood, and the scroll was adopted. The notorious White Paper, issued by the British in 1930 restricting Jewish immigration, was declared null and void. Members of the People’s Council signed the proclamation. David Ben-Gurion rapped his gavel, declaring, “The State of Israel is established. This meeting is ended.” Israel was brought forth as a nation in one day, at once. It happened exactly as predicted. At midnight, the British soldiers and high commissioner would leave. President Truman was swift in announcing U.S. recognition of Israel. The following morning, on May 15, Israel was under armed attack by the Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, Jordanians, and Iraqis.
3. The rebirth of Israel would happen after many days. It would occur a long time in the future after the prophecy was made and at the time the bible calls the latter days-Ezek 38:8. Prophecy fulfilled-May 14, 1948. That’s 3 out of 3.
Note: It is estimated that this prophecy was made around 580 B.C. Approximately 2500 years later, in 1948, this prophecy was fulfilled.
4. Israel would be brought forth (or reborn) “out of the nations.”-Ezek 38:8. Prophecy fulfilled-May 14, 1948. That’s 4 out of 4.
Note: As previously stated, on Nov. 29, 1947, the General Assembly of the “United Nations” approved a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. This prophecy was perfectly fulfilled. Consider, for centuries the land of Israel had been occupied by many nations. Israel was “brought forth out of the nations”—the children of Israel from many nations were returning to their ancient homeland.
5. Israel must regain the city of Jerusalem-Joel 2:32; Isa 28:14; Ezek 22:19. This happened just as predicted in 1967. That’s 5 out of 5.
Note: The Bible gives us two methods so we would know we are in the last generation. One is by Israel’s rebirth. The other, by a precise line of events that would all come together at one time. Israel was reborn on May 14th, 1948. The Bible indicates that from Israel’s rebirth a generation would not pass till all be fulfilled. A Jewish generation is figured from the age of 20 to 60 (1968). We are not setting any date, but it seems clear that we are living in that generation now.
6. The Christian church at the time of the end would be lukewarm, neither cold nor hot for Jesus. Prophecy fulfilled. That’s 6 out of 6.
Note: God will spew them out. Many church leaders and people that call themselves a Christian and are sure they are saved will not be going to heaven. The Bible tells us—you have acquired wealth, but your true condition is wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked and you don’t know it-Rev 3:14-22. This is today’s church. Most churches preach very little Scripture, but lots of worldly stories. Many sing a great deal, but put very little emphasis on repentance, obeying, serving, and fearing God, the fruits of the Spirit, Bible prophecy, water baptism by immersion, and studying your Bible faithfully every day. Many are only entertainment centers that teach what their members want to hear. People will not endure sound doctrine-2 Tim 4:3. They turn away from the truth-2 Tim 4:4. Many church members are so lukewarm or dead, they don’t even bring their Bibles with them to the house of God. Many ministers think this is the best church age ever, yet the Bible clearly shows it is the worst and most deceived.
7. The Bible gives us over 50 descriptions about the people at the time of the end. Here are some:
A.
Some would depart from the faith and go into devil worship-1 Tim 4:1. This is perfect. Reportedly in Great Britain alone, there are about 35,000 professing witches.
B. People would have no conscience-1 Tim 4:1,2.
C. People would mock about the last days and not believe-2 Pe 3:3; Jude 18.
D. People would become lovers of themselves-2 Tim 3:1,2. Remember the TV commercials—“I do it for me”?
E. People would be disobeying their parents-2 Tim 3:1,2.
F. People would be grateful for nothing-2 Tim 3:1,2.
G. Homosexuality would increase-Lk 17:28,30; ref Gen 19:5; Ro 1:24,26,27.
H. People would be without self-control in sex-2 Tim 3:1,2,6; Rev 9:21, Lk 17:28,30; Jude 7. Is this not the great sex generation?
I. People would be untrustworthy, friends would betray friends-2 Tim 3:1-3.
J.
People would love pleasures more than God-2 Tim 3:1,2,4. This is true. Shall we go on a picnic, watch football, or sleep. Church?—we can go another time. Our American motto “In God we trust” has become a joke. Remember, these were all predicted centuries ago as part of the signs that we are at the time of the end.
K. People would be taking drugs-Rev 9:21. The Greek word for sorceries, in Rev 9:21, means pharmaceuticals or drugs. God’s Word is 100% right on every one. That’s 7 out of 7. How could you have any doubts at this point?
Note: Fifty years ago, many people never locked their doors at night. People could leave their keys in their car. Merchants could leave their merchandise on the sidewalk without guards, and there was no profanity on television, radio, or in the movies. One of the biggest problems in public school was gum chewing. Those days are long gone.
8. There would be weapons that could destroy the world-Mk 13:20; Rev 6:8; Rev 9:18; Zech 14:8,12. This prophecy is true. That’s 8 out of 8.
Note: When in our history would anyone have ever thought this possible? It is estimated that the combined nuclear arsenals of the USA and Russia (as of the year 2000) could kill every living thing on earth 6 times over.
9. There would be an increase in earthquakes-Mt 24:2,3,7; Mk 13:8; Lk 21:11. This prophecy is correct. That’s 9 out of 9.
Note: One might think as the earth settled over a period of time that earthquakes would decrease like ripples in the water. Yet the Bible indicates the opposite is true. In this last generation, research from the U.S. Geological Survey, National Earthquake Information Center reveals that major earthquakes of a magnitude of 6.0 or higher have remained relatively constant during this century. However, the total number of earthquakes in recent years appear to be rising. For example, it was reported that in 1986, the total number of earthquakes was 12,718. In l990, it was 16,612. In 1994, it was 19,371. This will culminate during the Battle of Armageddon, AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS. At that time, there will be an earthquake that will shake the world. The cities of the nations will fall. Every island will flee away.
10. At the time of the end, there would be famines in various places. Food shortages would still exist in some places-Mt 24:3,4,7; ref Mk 13:8; Lk 21:11. This prophecy is accurate. That’s 10 out of 10.
Note: In this last generation, many are starving in the world. Poverty and crop failure, due to severe weather, drought, or insect infestation, are often a factor. Many people are born, live, and die on the streets, in alleyways, or railroad stations in some countries of the world. Multitudes live in mud houses with grass or palm branches for a roof or have no place to live at all. Billions have no electricity. In some nations, good drinking water is almost nonexistent. Senseless wars have left millions of people with no place to go. Refugee camps exist in many places where people live under conditions that are almost indescribable. They are hungry.
One such person was asked, as I recall, “What would it take for you to consider yourself rich?” His reply was, “I would consider myself rich, if I could have a roof over my head that did not leak, and if I could know what it is like to go to bed at night with a full stomach.”
It has been estimated that 60,000,000 people a year die from starvation around the world. This prophecy is accurate.
11. The Gospel must be published in all the world-Mk 13:10. This prophecy is exact. That’s 11 out of 11.
Note: In this last generation, to our knowledge, the Gospel is being published (or is about to be published) in the primary language of every nation of the world or “among all nations.” Yet when this prophecy was made, the possibility of such a thing would have seemed impossible. There was no printing press or any means to do such a thing. In addition to this, the Gospel should be available by short-wave radio to listeners anywhere in the world. We have just reached the point that seemed impossible—11 perfect predictions—yet with God nothing is impossible.
12. In the latter days when Israel was once again a nation, there would be a great military power to the extreme north of Israel in the land of Magog (which is modern-day Russia)-Ezek 38:2-4,8,15,16. Incredible. That’s 14 out of 14.
Note: How could the Bible have foretold such a thing? It told the location of this nation, facts about its military, and even the time period it would come to pass. As was already said in Lk 24:25-O FOOLS, AND SLOW OF HEART TO BELIEVE ALL THAT THE PROPHETS HAVE SPOKEN. Certainly, at this point, even the biggest skeptic in the world can see that the Bible is true, there is a God, and we are very near the time of the end.
Here are just a few more prophecies briefly given, out of the 365 that exist, regarding this latter day generation.
13. In the last days, people would be hoarding gold and silver. True. It began in the late 1970’s.
14. There would be a nation to the far east of Israel, to the end of the earth. This nation would have an army of 200 million. This is absolutely astounding. It is estimated by some that the population of the entire world at the time of Christ was only about 200,000,000. How then could the Bible have ever told the location of a nation and given such a figure as the size of its army nearly 2000 years ago? China has boasted that they could field an army of this exact figure.
15. The currency in Israel at the time of the end would be the shekel. The currency had been the Israeli pound until June 1980, when it was changed to the shekel. The Bible is flawless.
16. There would be an economic alliance of the nations of the Old Roman Empire. It would have a military capability. This is a perfect description of the European Economic Community (the EEC), which is in the process right now of adopting the one-currency system for many of their member nations. It is written, IN THE DAYS OF THESE KINGS (these nations, which is now) SHALL THE GOD OF HEAVEN SET UP A KINGDOM-Dan 2:44.
About 29 prophecies in 16 sets have been given, all perfect and all written centuries ago. The chance of any person writing 29 perfect prophecies 2000 years into the future is not possible. The Bible is the Word of God, and we have just proved it. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Repent and get baptized by full immersion. Read and obey the Gospel. God loves you. He is not willing that any should perish. The Rapture is close. Most people are not ready and will not be taken. However, “YOU” cannot say you did not know. Know and understand, Mt 16:26-WHAT IS A MAN PROFITED, IF HE SHALL GAIN THE WHOLE WORLD, AND LOSE HIS OWN SOUL? OR WHAT SHALL A MAN GIVE IN EXCHANGE FOR HIS SOUL?
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poop.
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What about these predictions?
2 Samuel 7
7:13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
7:16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.
Was this not Solomon’s Kingdom that lasted a mere 400 years?
Isaiah
13:19 And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
13:20 It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.
13:21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.
Where is modern day Babylon? Are there no people living in what was once the Kingdom of Babylon?
19:5 And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.
Hasn’t happen yet….but how likely is it?
Jeremiah 49
49:33 And Hazor shall be a dwelling for dragons, and a desolation for ever: there shall no man abide there, nor any son of man dwell in it.
So there are dragons living there?
Genesis
2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Did he die? No. He lives 900 more years I think.
Zechariah 9
9:8 And I will encamp about mine house because of the army, because of him that passeth by, and because of him that returneth: and no oppressor shall pass through them any more: for now have I seen with mine eyes.
From the time of Zezhariah, Israel has had many a foe molest them.
I bet I could find at least 20 more.
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the bible is based on pagan myth why doesnt anyone see this. its not the word of god, and jesus will not return.
also those descriptors of people during endtimes, can go for all generations, they are vague and easy. i could make a similar list
1. people will be self indulgent
2. disease will increase
3. people will be at war
4. racism will exist
5. people will deny jesus
6. people will sin
oh shit, its real. why is he coming back now if he is eternal? what is he waiting for? doesnt he already know whats going to happen? basically making it pointless? didnt he know he would be crucified before he created us to even crucify him?
the list goes on but there is no loving god handing out prayer requests.
the bible makes little sense, especially when it can be proved some of it is based on pagan myth.
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Put down the pipe. ::)
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the bible......... a book, wrote by humans (one hundred years later ::) ), new testament, old testament, this, that, make up your fuckin' mind already...
noe, adam & eve.......... oh brother ::)
god
A god is a being created by humans and given supernatural powers or attributes such as immortality, omniscience, telekinesis, and invisibility. These creations serve many purposes, such as imaginary protection from enemies or explanations for the origin of such things as good and evil, fire and wind, or life and death.
Gods are often the central figures around which religions are built. It is often claimed that religion began in fear and superstition. The same might be said for gods.
Some religions maintain that there is just one God and that all the gods of all religions except theirs were created by human beings. Yet, everyone who believes in a god of some sort believes their god is real.
Since gods are supernatural, they exist outside the bounds and laws of space and time. They can possess any of an infinite array of magical powers. Hence, there is no way to prove or disprove their reality. One might say: If gods exist, anything goes!
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Fuck god.. Anyone intelligent knows a giant teapot created the universe!
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The Bible is about as true as psychics. Say enough vague stuff, and sooner or later you might get one right.
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Fuck god.. Anyone intelligent knows a giant teapot created the universe!
When you see Saddam in hell..........tell him I said.....Hhahahahahahaha hahahahahaha!
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When you see Saddam in hell..........tell him I said.....Hhahahahahahaha hahahahahaha!
Hell would be any place you end up ;D
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When you see Saddam in hell..........tell him I said.....Hhahahahahahaha hahahahahaha!
How do you know Saddam didn't believe in God?
If he did, he is going to heaven.
Just like Hitler is going to heaven.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm
-Hedge
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How do you know Saddam didn't believe in God?
If he did, he is going to heaven.
Just like Hitler is going to heaven.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm
-Hedge
However, believing there is a God and acknowledging the Bible is the Word of God does not save a person. A person needs to repent of their sins and receive Jesus Christ as their only hope of being saved. This is done by faith.
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However, believing there is a God and acknowledging the Bible is the Word of God does not save a person. A person needs to repent of their sins and receive Jesus Christ as their only hope of being saved. This is done by faith.
There is no reason to believe that Hitler didn't acknowledged that JC took one for the home team so to speak, ie sacrificed his life for us.
So we should assume that Hitler is in heaven.
-Hedge
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There is no reason to believe that Hitler didn't acknowledged that JC took one for the home team so to speak, ie sacrificed his life for us.
So we should assume that Hitler is in heaven.
-Hedge
It's possible, but I doubt it. I think a person commits the kinds of crimes against humanity like Hitler and Saddam only when they can no longer hear their conscience. Some religious people (me included) believe your conscience is God helping you decide right from wrong. If true, and Hitler couldn't hear his conscience, then he probably wouldn't confess/repent.
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the bible......... a book, wrote by humans (one hundred years later ::) ), new testament, old testament, this, that, make up your fuckin' mind already...
noe, adam & eve.......... oh brother ::)
Actually closer to 250 years later... but that's just nitpicking on my part.
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Actually closer to 250 years later... but that's just nitpicking on my part.
Are you talking about the New Testament?
After looking in my bible and a few sites, they are sometimes a few years off in estimation but here is are the "approximate" years they were said to be written:
The Books Were Written
BOOKS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT BOOKS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT
BOOK PROBABLE DATE BOOK DATE
Matthew 40-60
Mark 45-60
Luke 57-60
John 40-65
Acts 57-62
Romans 57
1 Corinthians 55
2 Corinthians 56
Galatians 56
Ephesians 58
Philippians 58
Colossians 58
12 Thessalonians 50-51
1 Timothy 55
2 Timothy 58
Titus 57
Philemon 58
Hebrews 67
James 40's
1 Peter 65
2 Peter 61-62
1 John 57-62
2 John 57-62
3 John 57-62
Jude 61-62
Revelation 68-70
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Are you talking about the New Testament?
After looking in my bible and a few sites, they are sometimes a few years off in estimation but here is are the "approximate" years they were said to be written:
The Books Were Written
BOOKS OF THE OLD TESTAMENT BOOKS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT
BOOK PROBABLE DATE BOOK DATE
Matthew 40-60
Mark 45-60
Luke 57-60
John 40-65
Acts 57-62
Romans 57
1 Corinthians 55
2 Corinthians 56
Galatians 56
Ephesians 58
Philippians 58
Colossians 58
12 Thessalonians 50-51
1 Timothy 55
2 Timothy 58
Titus 57
Philemon 58
Hebrews 67
James 40's
1 Peter 65
2 Peter 61-62
1 John 57-62
2 John 57-62
3 John 57-62
Jude 61-62
Revelation 68-70
But they weren't put together into a "Bible" until around 250AD.
If you buy that the books were written by the proposed authors and the like.
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But they weren't put together into a "Bible" until around 250AD.
If you buy that the books were written by the proposed authors and the like.
No other manuscript has as many ancient copies as the The Bible, especially the New Testament. There are 600 Homer's Iliad; there are over 5,000 copies of the New Testament.
No other ancient book has copies as close to the events they describe as the New Testament, either. You stated that the books weren't put together until 250 A.D. The runner-up, Iliad is at least 400 years removed from the events it describes.
Furthermore, there are partial copies of the New Testament that date as early as the mid-second century.
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Fuck god.. Anyone intelligent knows a giant teapot created the universe!
Well that teapot would be God the creator you better fall on your knees and ask for forgiveness!
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Well that teapot would be God the creator you better fall on your knees and ask for forgiveness!
How about no?
I've lived an honest life and hurt no one. I've never stolen or done evil things.
If your god considers devotion to him over having high moral character and being a good person, then he's a piece of shit(if he even exists).
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How about no?
I've lived an honest life and hurt no one. I've never stolen or done evil things.
If your god considers devotion to him over having high moral character and being a good person, then he's a piece of shit(if he even exists).
Doesn't matter, your a sinner, I'm a sinner, we're all sinners, Jesus died on the Cross for ALL of our sins, in short, yes........he deserves our devotion, and the last part of your sentance pretty much secures your fate........BTW, he does exist.
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How about no?
I've lived an honest life and hurt no one. I've never stolen or done evil things.
If your god considers devotion to him over having high moral character and being a good person, then he's a piece of shit(if he even exists).
What's with all the hostility Camel? I can understand being an atheist, but you sound angry.
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I've lived an honest life and hurt no one. I've never stolen or done evil things.
So you have never sinned? You have never done wrong to anyone? Has there never been some good you could have done to someone, but just didn't do it? Something good you could have said, but never said it? Ever hurt anyone, physically or emotionally? Ever get to work late and leave early, but got paid for a full days work? Ever take a pen or pencil home from work? Ever dated a girl you wanted nothing serious with, fully knowing that she did want something serious with you and fully knowing that she believed that you wanted a serious relationship too? Ever lied? Ever told half truths? Ever desired to have sex with another man's wife?
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So you have never sinned? You have never done wrong to anyone? Has there never been some good you could have done to someone, but just didn't do it? Something good you could have said, but never said it? Ever hurt anyone, physically or emotionally? Ever get to work late and leave early, but got paid for a full days work? Ever take a pen or pencil home from work? Ever dated a girl you wanted nothing serious with, fully knowing that she did want something serious with you and fully knowing that she believed that you wanted a serious relationship too? Ever lied? Ever told half truths? Ever desired to have sex with another man's wife?
And when i asked for sins outside the 10 commandments we couldn't come with these?
Looks like a mine field to me, at least some of it. Just like i said, sins in the bible are set up for you to feel like crap about your self so you run to church.
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And when i asked for sins outside the 10 commandments we couldn't come with these?
You are about to start eating a hot dog. Homeless guy next to you is really starving and begging you for half your hot dog. You don't give him anything but eat your hot dog in front of him and make sure he sees that you really are enjoying it. That's a sin.
I can come up with 1 billion sins. That's why we are all in need of a saviour. That is why we all need Jesus. ;D
Looks like a mine field to me, at least some of it. Just like i said, sins in the bible are set up for you to feel like crap about your self so you run to church.
Which are a mine field to you and which are not? Who said that these were "sins in the bible"? I asked Camel Jockey if he had sinned, then I asked if he had done any of the other things that I listed.
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Which are a mine field to you and which are not? Who said that these were "sins in the bible"? I asked Camel Jockey if he had sinned, then I asked if he had done any of the other things that I listed.
Are all those things sins?
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Are all those things sins?
What? No answer? You give me a question instead of an answer to my question? How about you answer mine first? ;D
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I was just trying to ask you if those are sins? Why are you having trouble answering it? With that other thread, "sins outside the 10 commandments" it seems like you are dodging the question.
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I was just trying to ask you if those are sins? Why are you having trouble answering it? With that other thread, "sins outside the 10 commandments" it seems like you are dodging the question.
I am not having any trouble answering and I will answer, after you answer my question. I'll answer your questions, then you answer mine. We'll take turns to make sure that nobody's question qets forgotten and buried by the other person's questions.
I did answer, many times, on your other thread.
You are the only one dodging questions, in this and on the other thread "No such thing as an Atheist?"
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I am not having any trouble answering and I will answer, after you answer my question. I'll answer your questions, then you answer mine. We'll take turns to make sure that nobody's question qets forgotten and buried by the other person's questions.
I did answer, many times, on your other thread.
You are the only one dodging questions, in this and on the other thread "No such thing as an Atheist?"
ok what's your question to me, restate it please. I'll answer it directly.
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ok what's your question to me, restate it please. I'll answer it directly.
Looks like a mine field to me, at least some of it.
Which are a mine field to you and which are not?
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Has there never been some good you could have done to someone, but just didn't do it?
Do you watch the news loco? Do you see people suffering that could use money? Are you sanding money everytime you read or see it on TV?
"Mine"
Ever get to work late and leave early, but got paid for a full days work?
Ever at that same job, been there early and stayed late and not got paid for it?
It usually evens out, otherwise you get canned.
"Mine"
"Ever take a pen or pencil home from work?"
I don't think anyone premeditates stealing a pen from work.
"Mine"
Ever dated a girl you wanted nothing serious with, fully knowing that she did want something serious with you and fully knowing that she believed that you wanted a serious relationship too?
"unethical" I would call that a sin.
Ever lied? Ever told half truths?
"sin" Especially if there is a victim involved.
Ever desired to have sex with another man's wife?
It's perfectly natural to be attracted to a pretty women. It's a sin to act on it via seduction or w/e if that person is committed to a relationship.
"mine"
Of course severe physical and emotional harm is a sin.
Now answer my question
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Now answer my question
YES, SIR!
Has there never been some good you could have done to someone, but just didn't do it?
Sin. Notice I said some good you "could" have done: You know your neighbor is starving, you have extra food and don't share. You know your neighbor is dying of thirst. You have extra fresh water, but you don't share.
If on the other hand it was good you "couldn't" have or could not afford to have done, then that's another story.
Something good you could have said, but never said it?
Moral law, for example a compliment you could have given your wife and made her day, but didn't.
Ever hurt anyone, physically or emotionally?
If intentional, then it's a sin.
Ever get to work late and leave early, but got paid for a full days work? Ever take a pen or pencil home from work?
Sin.
Stealing: Do a little research. Most businesses that fail in the US do so because employees steal from employers, not working their hours, stealing office supplies, etc.
Ever dated a girl you wanted nothing serious with, fully knowing that she did want something serious with you and fully knowing that she believed that you wanted a serious relationship too?
Sin
Ever lied? Ever told half truths?
Sin
Ever desired to have sex with another man's wife?
Sin
By the way, OzmO, my intention was to have Camel Jockey think about this for himself. A lot of this stuff is between you and God, like thoughts and intentions. Camel Jockey said "I've lived an honest life and hurt no one". It was not meant to define sin, but you asked and I answered.
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How about no?
I've lived an honest life and hurt no one. I've never stolen or done evil things.
If your god considers devotion to him over having high moral character and being a good person, then he's a piece of shit(if he even exists).
Just exactly who is defining what "high moral character" or "being a good person" is? By what standard of morality are you using?
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New proof
Movie '300'
"Ready your breakfeast and eat hearty, for tonight we dine in hell!!!"
this has everything.. 'breakfeast' - food people are hungry, the poor...
hearty - a person's real heart, love for love ones and faith for God...
Tonight we dine in hell - if we don't be 'READY' and repent ours sins we will be dining in hell!
i am a christian and believe in my faith, but i think the world has been living for so long why not it continue... we will truly never know when the world will end.. it has been continuing to survive for millions of years, why choose this time, because a few words add up in a sentence, i just gave you proof that any context giving has a meaning to something if it wants too(even though it might sound stupid coming from the movie "300")
and why worry anyway, if the world will end GetBig will till be alive, and Milos will till be talking shit, telling lies about how much pros take, i bet ya the bible has a whole chapter of milos' shit!
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So you have never sinned? You have never done wrong to anyone? Has there never been some good you could have done to someone, but just didn't do it? Something good you could have said, but never said it? Ever hurt anyone, physically or emotionally? Ever get to work late and leave early, but got paid for a full days work? Ever take a pen or pencil home from work? Ever dated a girl you wanted nothing serious with, fully knowing that she did want something serious with you and fully knowing that she believed that you wanted a serious relationship too? Ever lied? Ever told half truths? Ever desired to have sex with another man's wife?
this is bullshit, everything is a sin, we cannot do anything right, what is the point?
everyone, dont think about sex, even though that is the main purpose in life. evolution is fake, the mountains of evidence are false, God did it. Repent, nothing you do is good enough, if you dont ask for forgiveness for your worthless, unperfect life you will burn in the most wretched place in the universe HELL. Which this all-loving god created, even though he is all-loving he will allow you to burn in hell and suffer because you didnt ask for forgiveness for the things we are meant to do.
also, god is against gays, gayness is a genetic disposition, something your born with. All loving my ass.
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When you see Saddam in hell..........tell him I said.....Hhahahahahahaha hahahahahaha!
ah yes, there's that famous compassion that can only come from someone filled with the "holy spirit".
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BTW, he does exist.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8021053782748318086&q=They+do+exist&total=968&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
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LOL @ Born Again Joe damning CJ to hell!!! ;D
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LOL @ Born Again Joe damning CJ to hell!!! ;D
but joes on gods side, he will kill everyone who doesnt ask for forgiveness and joe will be there to laugh at those that are suffering for eternity in hell
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this is bullshit, everything is a sin,
No, not everything is a sin.
we cannot do anything right, what is the point?
Yes, we can.
John 6:28-29
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
everyone, dont think about sex, even though that is the main purpose in life.
The main purpose in life is sex? ;D
evolution is fake, the mountains of evidence are false, God did it. Repent, nothing you do is good enough, if you dont ask for forgiveness for your worthless, unperfect life you will burn in the most wretched place in the universe HELL. Which this all-loving god created, even though he is all-loving he will allow you to burn in hell and suffer because you didnt ask for forgiveness for the things we are meant to do.
God didn't create hell for us humans. But we do have the choice to go there to pay for our own sins.
Matthew 25:41
Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
But we also have the choice to believe and accept that Jesus Christ already paid for our sins. This is really what God wants us to choose.
2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."
Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live.
Ezekiel 18:32
For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!
also, god is against gays, gayness is a genetic disposition, something your born with. All loving my ass.
God is against sin and evil. I believe God is loving, just, good and righteous. But what if He wasn't? What if God was cruel? Who are we to tell Him what is right or wrong or what is good or evil? He created the universe after all, including us. Can God not run it as He sees fit and do whatever He wants? He calls the shots, not us.
Job 1:21
"Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart.
The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away;
may the name of the LORD be praised."
Job 13:15
Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him.
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I came across this looking for some info. found it to be interesting
Question
Hello Rabbi Moss,
I was brought up an atheist Jew, and have a BA in Religious Studies (i.e. comparative religion).
I was recently wondering where Christianity got its concept of original sin, because, as far as I know, it doesn't really exist in Judaism. My understanding has always been that according to Judaism, we are born into this often miserable world (simplisticly the result of the Fall); we are born neither good or bad, but we have the ability to go with our yetzer tov or yetzer hara (which I have understood to mean good or bad inclinations). The sins for which we atone at New Years are those done during the past year, and not anything more integral to who we are. I assume any sacrifice that was made when the Temple existed would have been for that.
Therefore, the sin then becoming in Christianity one that exists at birth and that is integral to one's very being would seem to be a new concept.
Of course, I'm not sure there was a Jewish concept of a soul in the first place, but that's another topic.
Do you have any information on this 'original sin' question, what the Fall indicated, and was the implication of 'sin'?
Thank you.
Dori Jaffe
Answer
Dear Dori,
The Jewish view of the sin of Adam and Eve is very different from the Christian one. In fact, when looked at deeply, it is questionable whether the sin was evil at all.
Judaism is emphatic that a person is born innocent - not evil, not good either, but innocent. We are given a clean slate. But we are not born into an innocent world. The world we are born into is one of challenge, difficulty, pain and evil. But all these are merely means to an end: it is through facing challenges that we grow as human beings, through going through difficulty we bring out deeper resources from within, through pain we become stronger and by combatting evil we create a world of good. So all negativity in the world is just a facade - behind it is ultimate goodness.
That's how reality is now. But it was not like that in the beginning. Adam and Eve were pure beings who entered a perfect world. There was no challenge, pain or death in their world. The "knowledge of good and evil" was a tree that they were told to stay away from in order to maintain this perfect world. "On the day you eat from the tree you will become mortal" said G-d. Eve picked up on a nuance in this warning. Here is my reconstruction of Eve's thought process:
G-d is giving us a choice. We can either remain perfect in a perfect world, or we can ingest the knowledge of good and evil and become imperfect (mortal). What should we choose? Well, G-d created us with a purpose. But what purpose could there be in remaining perfect? G-d was perfect before we were created, so what are we adding? Our purpose must be to face imperfection and make that perfect too, through our own efforts. That's something only we can do, because only we can be imperfect (G-d "can't" do that). So she ate of the tree and convinced Adam to eat it too.
Mortality was not a punishment for eating the fruit, but rather the natural consequence (because only a perfect being is immortal). So too the other "curses" - pain in childbirth and difficulty in making a living are the natural consequences of Eve's choice, because from now on, all achievement has to be earned, which means that nothing can be "born" without hardship.
As descendants of Adam and Eve we have inherited this path - the path of facing challenges, fighting evil and trying to bring the world back to its previous perfection. Every time we overcome a negative urge, or we transform an evil situation to a holy one, we win a battle in this war. We make the world a little bit more comfortable for G-d's presence to be manifest. When the sum total of all the good in all generations reaches a certain point, G-d will send the Messiah. He is a human leader who will teach the world how to put the finishing touches on the work of perfecting the world. He will bring material peace between all nations of the world, he will make peace between the spiritual ideals of how the world should be and the practical reality of how the world is, he will bring down the heavens and reveal them on earth. And he won't die, nor will anyone, because evil and death will have been vanquished for ever.
To summarise:
1) The "sin" of Adam and Eve was in fact a conscious choice, a necessary step in the development of humanity's purpose. It was the introduciton of imperfection into creation - something only humans can do.
2) We are not born evil, but we are born in a world of apparent evil and hidden goodness. Our mission is to reveal that goodness.
All the best,
Rabbi Moss
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Orthodox-Judaism-952/Original-Sin.htm (http://en.allexperts.com/q/Orthodox-Judaism-952/Original-Sin.htm)
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Good article.
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Good article.
thanks
nobody else replied.
hehehe
I like their concept regarding this.
born innocent rather than in sin.
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thanks
nobody else replied.
hehehe
I like their concept regarding this.
born innocent rather than in sin.
It's like they are saying we are all born losers. I don;t accept that. We are born with the seeds of greatness.