Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Victor VonDoom on May 15, 2007, 10:02:36 AM
-
LYNCHBURG, Virginia (AP) -- The Rev. Jerry Falwell was found unconscious in his office Tuesday and taken to the hospital, a Liberty University executive told a newspaper.
Ron Godwin, the executive vice president of the school, told The News & Advance of Lynchburg that Falwell was found unconscious after missing an appointment Tuesday morning. Falwell arrived at Lynchburg General Hospital around noon, the newspaper reported on its Web site.
When contacted by The Associated Press, Godwin said he couldn't talk at that time.
Is this goodbye? If so, Doom approves.
-
Is this goodbye? If so, Doom approves.
When I saw you started this thread title I wondered whether Doom approved or not!
-
This just in: Falwell has died at 73 years old.
Doom disapproves of men and women who presume to lecture others based on spiritual beliefs. If your psycho/spiritual beliefs serve you well then so be it, but keep them to yourself.
If other people want your psycho/spiritual guidance, they will ask for it.
-
!!! Thanks for the picture I was thinking of Pat Robertson!
-
At the age of 22, having just graduated from college in June of 1956, Jerry Falwell returned to his hometown of Lynchburg, Virginia and started Thomas Road Baptist Church with 35 members. The offering that first Sunday totaled $135. Falwell often says about the first collection, “we thought we had conquered the world”. Today Thomas Road Church has 24,000 members and the total annual revenues of all the Jerry Falwell ministries total over $200 million.
'nuff said.
Doom disapproves.
-
Falwell sucked balls.
HTH.
-
At the age of 22, having just graduated from college in June of 1956, Jerry Falwell returned to his hometown of Lynchburg, Virginia and started Thomas Road Baptist Church with 35 members. The offering that first Sunday totaled $135. Falwell often says about the first collection, “we thought we had conquered the world”. Today Thomas Road Church has 24,000 members and the total annual revenues of all the Jerry Falwell ministries total over $200 million.
'nuff said.
Doom disapproves.
'nuff said about what? Do you think that was all for him ::)??
-
Good riddance!!!
Columbusdude approves too!!!
-
Good riddance!!!
Columbusdude approves too!!!
dont ride dooms jock.
-
dont ride dooms jock.
Jealous, are you? ;)
-
I lothed that man, his presense shal not be missed.
-
Our Lord, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, hath condemned the rotund Falwell to the Pastafarian Hell, where pasta sticks and meatballs are never fresh. I shudder to think how he will suffer for all eternity.
May He bless you all with His noodly Appendage. RAmen.
-
Our Lord, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, hath condemned the rotund Falwell to the Pastafarian Hell, where pasta sticks and meatballs are never fresh. I shudder to think how he will suffer for all eternity.
May He bless you all with His noodly Appendage. RAmen.
I'm just gonna put it out there, Columbusdude.....you sound kinda angry, bro. :-\ Like really scarred.
-
I sound angry? I am "really scarred"? I assure you, I am neither :)
On the other hand, a man that says shit like
“AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals”
is angry, and scarred.
-
I sound angry? I am "really scarred"? I assure you, I am neither :)
I didn't say you were scarred or angry, bro. Just that it sounds that way. If I go back and look at what you were saying in your previous post, it's as if you hated Jerry Falwell like he personally did something to you, kinda like the girl that hooks up with a guy, then when he doesn't ever call back she's furious and bitter. That's all I'm saying.
On the other hand, a man that says shit like
“AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals”
is angry, and scarred.
Would you have been just as upset if he said the same thing about smokers and lung cancer? :-\
-
Would you have been just as upset if he said the same thing about smokers and lung cancer? :-\
1. I am not upset.
2. Let's take your premise, and let us suppose Falwell said "Lung cancer is not just God's punishment for smokers; it is God's punishment for a society that tolerates smokers."
That just sounds stupid. Not all lung cancer is caused by smoking, and not all smokers get lung cancer. That smoking causes lung cancer is a scientific fact and it has nothing to do with God, just as the plate tectonics that cause earthquakes are scientific facts. Furthermore, how is lung cancer a punishment for a society that tolerates smokers? You mean to say that if a nice old grandmother who never smoked a day in her life got lung cancer, that is a punishment from God?
3. The premise of your analogy is wrong. Whereas smoking is scientifically proven to cause cancer, "homosexuality" (whether you mean the sexual orientation itself, or the sexual act, or homosexual dating and relationships) does not cause AIDS. The HIV virus causes AIDS. You can get the HIV virus from a blood transfusion, from heterosexual sex, from homosexual sex, from a one-time hook-up or a long-term partner. It is a virus, plain and simple. It is no more "a punishment from God" than the common cold.
Now you are going to say "columbusdude you are angry" or "MELTDOWN" or something along those lines, but trust me, that is not the case. I am merely pointing out the fallacy in your argument :)
-
1. I am not upset.
2. Let's take your premise, and let us suppose Falwell said "Lung cancer is not just God's punishment for smokers; it is God's punishment for a society that tolerates smokers."
That just sounds stupid. Not all lung cancer is caused by smoking, and not all smokers get lung cancer. That smoking causes lung cancer is a scientific fact and it has nothing to do with God, just as the plate tectonics that cause earthquakes are scientific facts. Furthermore, how is lung cancer a punishment for a society that tolerates smokers? You mean to say that if a nice old grandmother who never smoked a day in her life got lung cancer, that is a punishment from God?
3. The premise of your analogy is wrong. Whereas smoking is scientifically proven to cause cancer, "homosexuality" (whether you mean the sexual orientation itself, or the sexual act, or homosexual dating and relationships) does not cause AIDS. The HIV virus causes AIDS. You can get the HIV virus from a blood transfusion, from heterosexual sex, from homosexual sex, from a one-time hook-up or a long-term partner. It is a virus, plain and simple. It is no more "a punishment from God" than the common cold.
Now you are going to say "columbusdude you are angry" or "MELTDOWN" or something along those lines, but trust me, that is not the case. I am merely pointing out the fallacy in your argument :)
lol, no not at all, bro. hahahaha it's a good debate (but your comments were personal towa
Good points, but I would have (and did so) argued the statement by the late Mr. Falwell from the vantage point that man has been fallen since the time of Adam and Eve. "The wages of sin is death", whether it be aids, cancer, gunshot wounds, car accident, or some other type of illness.
We are all fallen, bro. And death will consume everyone one of us, because of our fallen nature. Hence, the whole point of Christ dying on the cross.
-
I am not fallen. I reject the doctrine of Original Sin. I refuse to bear the brunt of a hypothetical sin committed by an imaginary man and woman in an allegorical story from an ancient book written in the middle east thousands of years back. I am responsible for my actions only. You can be fallen if you like.
Saying that "sin" is the cause of all these deaths you describe above is ludicrous. If I were to die of food poisoning because I ate salmonella-contaminated chicken, that has nothing to do with sin, and everything to do with bacteria. If I were to get AIDS from a blood transfusion gone wrong, that has everything to do with HIV-contaminated blood and nothing to do with sin.
Are all still-born children dying because of their sins, which they haven't had the opportunity to commit? Did the millions of Holocaust victims meet horrible deaths because of their sins, or their Jewish/Gypsy/etc identity? Are their sins that much worse than the rest of mankind?
You can explain away your own misfortunes by blaming yourself for actual or hypothetical sins. However, you can't expect the rest of us to buy into that.
Moving on, if AIDS is a punishment from God for sin, isn't it then immoral to try to find a cure for it? Aren't scientists who invent AIDS medicines and the people who use them circumventing the will of God?
Finally, as for Falwell, yes, I am glad we are rid of one of the major voices of backwardness and stupidity in the American Taliban. The man never outgrew the part of the fat bully in the school playground, and used the bible and the pulpit to promote his stupidity and unreason.
-
I am not fallen. I reject the doctrine of Original Sin. I refuse to bear the brunt of a hypothetical sin committed by an imaginary man and woman in an allegorical story from an ancient book written in the middle east thousands of years back. I am responsible for my actions only. You can be fallen if you like.
Saying that "sin" is the cause of all these deaths you describe above is ludicrous. If I were to die of food poisoning because I ate salmonella-contaminated chicken, that has nothing to do with sin, and everything to do with bacteria. If I were to get AIDS from a blood transfusion gone wrong, that has everything to do with HIV-contaminated blood and nothing to do with sin.
Are all still-born children dying because of their sins, which they haven't had the opportunity to commit? Did the millions of Holocaust victims meet horrible deaths because of their sins, or their Jewish/Gypsy/etc identity? Are their sins that much worse than the rest of mankind?
You can explain away your own misfortunes by blaming yourself for actual or hypothetical sins. However, you can't expect the rest of us to buy into that.
Moving on, if AIDS is a punishment from God for sin, isn't it then immoral to try to find a cure for it? Aren't scientists who invent AIDS medicines and the people who use them circumventing the will of God?
Finally, as for Falwell, yes, I am glad we are rid of one of the major voices of backwardness and stupidity in the American Taliban. The man never outgrew the part of the fat bully in the school playground, and used the bible and the pulpit to promote his stupidity and unreason.
I can't answer your question with regard to finding a cure for AIDS, Cancer, etc, if you don't accept the notion that we are all fallen. You and I totally miss the mark when it comes to perfection. Or I should say, I miss the mark, whereas you believe to be perfect in your existence, right? If you're not fallen, then you have to be perfect, yes?
-
I am not fallen. I reject the doctrine of Original Sin. I refuse to bear the brunt of a hypothetical sin committed by an imaginary man and woman in an allegorical story from an ancient book written in the middle east thousands of years back. I am responsible for my actions only. You can be fallen if you like.
Saying that "sin" is the cause of all these deaths you describe above is ludicrous. If I were to die of food poisoning because I ate salmonella-contaminated chicken, that has nothing to do with sin, and everything to do with bacteria. If I were to get AIDS from a blood transfusion gone wrong, that has everything to do with HIV-contaminated blood and nothing to do with sin.
Are all still-born children dying because of their sins, which they haven't had the opportunity to commit? Did the millions of Holocaust victims meet horrible deaths because of their sins, or their Jewish/Gypsy/etc identity? Are their sins that much worse than the rest of mankind?
Columbus how about this: who contaminated the chicken? A dishonest factory worker maybe? AIDS tainted blood likely came from an IV drug user. Holocaust victims were murdered.
I guess the next question would be what did those people do to deserve to die? I don't know. But I think you can trace much, if not all, of what ails society to sin, by someone.
-
You force me to choose between regarding myself as "perfect" and a lifetime of self-flagellation for sins, both committed and perceived. What on earth is the reason why I have to pick only one or the other? I repeat: "I refuse to bear the brunt of a hypothetical sin committed by an imaginary man and woman in an allegorical story from an ancient book written in the middle east thousands of years back. I am responsible for my actions only." I never claimed to be perfect. I only ask to be judged by the actual wrongs that I actually commit. Don't put words in my mouth.
You say: "I can't answer your question with regard to finding a cure for AIDS, Cancer, etc, if you don't accept the notion that we are all fallen."
You can't answer my questions because you limit the scope of your search for answers to ancient books. I accept the logical cause of death. If I were to be eaten by a lion in the jungle, then that doesn't mean I died because of sin. I died because the lion ate me, plain and simple.
Getting back on topic, Falwell said: "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.' "
What stupidity! The 9-11 attacks were perpetrated by Muslims, who hate the people Falwell mentions above at least as much as he does. How on earth does two lesbians going at it in their bedroom in their home in, say, Phoenix, lead to planes crashing into the WTC towers in NY? Sheer stupidity!
-
Columbus how about this: who contaminated the chicken? A dishonest factory worker maybe?
Or maybe I just didn't cook it thoroughly enough? There was still a pink spot in the middle that I missed. I ate it, got poisoned. Whose sin is it now?
As for AIDS, let's say I got it from a monkey, like the first people who got HIV. Let's say an HIV-carrying monkey scratched me in the circus when I got too close. Where's the sin there?
-
You force me to choose between regarding myself as "perfect" and a lifetime of self-flagellation for sins, both committed and perceived. What on earth is the reason why I have to pick only one or the other? I repeat: "I refuse to bear the brunt of a hypothetical sin committed by an imaginary man and woman in an allegorical story from an ancient book written in the middle east thousands of years back. I am responsible for my actions only." I never claimed to be perfect. I only ask to be judged by the actual wrongs that I actually commit. Don't put words in my mouth.
You say: "I can't answer your question with regard to finding a cure for AIDS, Cancer, etc, if you don't accept the notion that we are all fallen."
You can't answer my questions because you limit the scope of your search for answers to ancient books. I accept the logical cause of death. If I were to be eaten by a lion in the jungle, then that doesn't mean I died because of sin. I died because the lion ate me, plain and simple.
True. We're on opposite sides of the ledge that either catapults one of us up, or cracks and crashes down. It's something that only time will tell. But from what I'm hearing from you, there's another part of that ledge, the one that doesn't do anything, it's balanced, and it just exists. It's just there, with no purpose, no reason, nothing.
Getting back on topic, Falwell said: "I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.' "
What stupidity! The 9-11 attacks were perpetrated by Muslims, who hate the people Falwell mentions above at least as much as he does. How on earth does two lesbians going at it in their bedroom in their home in, say, Phoenix, lead to planes crashing into the WTC towers in NY? Sheer stupidity!
Wouldn't you agree that they've been successful to date?
-
1. I am still interested in hearing your answer to my previous question, if you want to answer it: "if AIDS is a punishment from God for sin, isn't it then immoral to try to find a cure for it? Aren't scientists who invent AIDS medicines and the people who use them circumventing the will of God?"
2. I don't get your ledge analogy. You word it vaguely so I don't see what you're referring to.
3. You mean the highlighted people have been successful in secularizing America? Newsflash: These people didn't secularize America. The Founding Fathers did. It was secular from the start.
See the obnoxious aggressive nature of religion? The American Taliban can't accept a secular country that protects their freedom of religion, everyone else's freedom of religion, and freedom from religion. You can't tell them,
"well, Mr. Falwell, you believe in your rapture and your second coming of Jesus, and let the Muslim believe in Mohammed and Allah, and I will enjoy my Shakespeare and Mozart and Picasso, and we can all live happily and in peace"
no more than you can say to a suicide bomber bent on blowing you up "well, Ahmed, you believe in Muhammad and the Twelfth Imam and all that, and I'll watch my TV shows and listen to my rock bands, and we can live in peace and harmony side by side."
Ahmed is bent on blowing himself up and taking you with him, so he can get his 72 virgins, and the American Taliban demand a "Christian nation." It is this absolutism of religion that I hate and fight.
-
Or maybe I just didn't cook it thoroughly enough? There was still a pink spot in the middle that I missed. I ate it, got poisoned. Whose sin is it now?
As for AIDS, let's say I got it from a monkey, like the first people who got HIV. Let's say an HIV-carrying monkey scratched me in the circus when I got too close. Where's the sin there?
Re chicken: I would fault you for not cooking the chicken thoroughly. :) Is that a "sin"? Not necessarily.
We don't know where AIDS originated, but we do know the overwhelming majority of AIDS in the United States is confined primarily to a couple of groups: IV drug users and a certain category of homosexual males.
I understand the point you're trying to make (I think): some illnesses and deaths cannot be traced to anyone's bad acts. That's debatable, but I think by and large you can pinpoint some human failure for much of the things we see going wrong in this country.
I can look at my own life and trace my failures in life to specific actions (or inaction). All of it pretty much avoidable. It is not easy and maybe that upsets you. Honestly, it bothers me sometimes. The Bible talks a lot about a person overcoming sin. Overcoming requires hard work. Constant awareness. Not an easy task. Sometimes, I resent having to remain so focused and that resentment is a failure on my part, but hey I’m human. :-\
-
1. I am still interested in hearing your answer to my previous question, if you want to answer it: "if AIDS is a punishment from God for sin, isn't it then immoral to try to find a cure for it? Aren't scientists who invent AIDS medicines and the people who use them circumventing the will of God?"
Asked and answered, bro. I'm just not saying what you want to hear, i.e., you simply don't like the answer. My answer is that we're all fallen, i.e., our sinful nature leads us to our death, whether it be direct (full-blown AIDS from HIV) or indirect (AIDS from blood transfusion). The lion existed in the beginning too, yet he didn't take a bite out of Adam's or Eve's hide. It wasn't until the fall of man that the lion started having humans for lunch. Not to til the fall of man did people started drowing their own children, etc.
2. I don't get your ledge analogy. You word it vaguely so I don't see what you're referring to.
I look at life from an either/or perspective, whereas you have a more pluralistic viewpoint.... the ledge has many sides, none of which mean ascending upward or descending downward. In your viewpoint, we exist because we exist, right? There is no meaning for our existence.
3. You mean the highlighted people have been successful in secularizing America? Newsflash: These people didn't secularize America. The Founding Fathers did. It was secular from the start.
See the obnoxious aggressive nature of religion? The American Taliban can't accept a secular country that protects their freedom of religion, everyone else's freedom of religion, and freedom from religion. You can't tell them,
"well, Mr. Falwell, you believe in your rapture and your second coming of Jesus, and let the Muslim believe in Mohammed and Allah, and I will enjoy my Shakespeare and Mozart and Picasso, and we can all live happily and in peace"
no more than you can say to a suicide bomber bent on blowing you up "well, Ahmed, you believe in Muhammad and the Twelfth Imam and all that, and I'll watch my TV shows and listen to my rock bands, and we can live in peace and harmony side by side."
Ahmed is bent on blowing himself up and taking you with him, so he can get his 72 virgins, and the American Taliban demand a "Christian nation." It is this absolutism of religion that I hate and fight.
The only aggression I see is towards those who believe Christ to be the Saviour to all who will accept Him. As I've said before, I don't believe in religion. I only believe in God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
-
Nope, you hadn't answered it. You said "I can't answer..." But are you serious when you say "It wasn't until the fall of man that the lion started having humans for lunch?"
Surely, you are pulling my leg. You mean to say that lions never ate homo sapiens, or homo erectus, or homo habilis, or any of the other primates in the past 2 million years, for instance, until about 3 or 4 thousand years ago when the Genesis story was made up? Presumably homo sapiens and the other primates didn't look appetizing to lions until the Genesis story was first composed?
As for "the only aggression" you see being against Christ, presumably you think Falwell's agressive obsession with what consulting adults do in their bedrooms and his aggressive attempts to impose his own sexual beliefs on the rest of us is entirely Christ-like?
-
Can I get a yes/no answer: Is it or is it not immoral to take AIDS medication?
-
Re chicken: I would fault you for not cooking the chicken thoroughly. :) Is that a "sin"? Not necessarily.
What is with religious people and the temptation to 'fault' everyone. Isn't it bad enough I got food poisoning, you have to barge into my hospital room and fault me for not cooking my chicken properly?
We don't know where AIDS originated, but we do know the overwhelming majority of AIDS in the United States is confined primarily to a couple of groups: IV drug users and a certain category of homosexual males.
In Africa, the AIDS epidemic is killing children, old people, heterosexuals, homosexuals, everyone! Meanwhile, that old fool Ratzinger and his band of merry jesters dressed in red still discourage condom use. Better die of AIDS than use a condom, they say.
-
What is with religious people and the temptation to 'fault' everyone. Isn't it bad enough I got food poisoning, you have to barge into my hospital room and fault me for not cooking my chicken properly?
In Africa, the AIDS epidemic is killing children, old people, heterosexuals, homosexuals, everyone! Meanwhile, that old fool Ratzinger and his band of merry jesters dressed in red still discourage condom use. Better die of AIDS than use a condom, they say.
Well whose fault is it for not properly cooking undercooked chicken? I don't really see that as a religious issue anyway. It's just being dumb if you ask me (undercooking meat).
The AIDS epidemic in Africa is tragic. Is it being spread through heterosexual sex between married couples?
-
Nope, you hadn't answered it. You said "I can't answer..." But are you serious when you say "It wasn't until the fall of man that the lion started having humans for lunch?"
Surely, you are pulling my leg. You mean to say that lions never ate homo sapiens, or homo erectus, or homo habilis, or any of the other primates in the past 2 million years, for instance, until about 3 or 4 thousand years ago when the Genesis story was made up? Presumably homo sapiens and the other primates didn't look appetizing to lions until the Genesis story was first composed?
That's where your pluralism kicks in, bro. That's what I was talking about with the whole "ledge" thing. It's either/or for me, but for you it's all inclusive...anything goes. I don't believe in the goo-to you-straigh outta da zoo (walking on my knuckles to standing up straight and shaving every day). The bilble and billions of years don't mix for me. Billions is a lot, bro. Who came up with that measure. Any way that I look at my life, it points to a proof of creation (God), just as if I were to hold any two fingers up on both hands, and I get the same answer (2+2=4). But how do you proof the goo-to you-straight outta da zoo?
As for "the only aggression" you see being against Christ, presumably you think Falwell's agressive obsession with what consulting adults do in their bedrooms and his aggressive attempts to impose his own sexual beliefs on the rest of us is entirely Christ-like?
For all we know, bro, Mr. Falwell (may he rest in peace) could have been shakin' up with one of the ladies on the front pew. And he was no less a hypocrite than me or you (oh, I forgot, you're not fallen...my bad lol :P). Need I remind of you the Foley scandal? But where he and I think differently from those who aren't "fallen" is that we know this to be true of ourselves. Did the media ever give Jerry Falwell a platform to say he was no less a sinner than those he condemned? Remember, the media is a profit maker. What good does it do a media outlet to allow someone a platform to say, "I'm no better than you, my friend?"
-
Well whose fault is it for not properly cooking undercooked chicken? I don't really see that as a religious issue anyway. It's just being dumb if you ask me (undercooking meat).
So is torturing yourself over the relatively benign sin (eating fruit?!) of a hypothetical man and woman in a made-up allegorical story from an ancient text written by homo sapiens in the middle east a few thousand years ago.
The AIDS epidemic in Africa is tragic. Is it being spread through heterosexual sex between married couples?
Yes, if one of em gets it somehow. If the husband cheats or otherwise contracts HIV, it is Ratzinger's teaching (and his church's) that he and his wife must still not use condoms, and that she should accept her fate. Why must she die of AIDS for her husband's bad luck or adultery?! Sheer stupidity!
-
Notice that Beach and I have not once made this a personal issue (i.e., "sheer stupidity")
The hositlity is in your court, bro. :-\
Hey, I gotta run. But let's pick this up tomorrow? Have a good one, OSU man! Go Penn State!!!!!! :P
-
That's where your pluralism kicks in, bro. That's what I was talking about with the whole "ledge" thing. It's either/or for me, but for you it's all inclusive...anything goes. I don't believe in the goo-to you-straigh outta da zoo (walking on my knuckles to standing up straight and shaving every day). The bilble and billions of years don't mix for me. Billions is a lot, bro. Who came up with that measure. Any way that I look at my life, it points to a proof of creation (God), just as if I were to hold any two fingers up on both hands, and I get the same answer (2+2=4). But how do you proof the goo-to you-straight outta da zoo?
I am sorry that you have not had the benefit on a scientific education. I do NOT mean to sound condescending, but you speak like a person who has not learned science. If you choose to ignore all of physics (that's where the billions come from) and biology, and instead focus only on one set of 'ancient' (just a few thousand year old) texts and say "this is all I need to know," that is entirely your choice.
Fortunately, much of the rest of mankind has forgone that view and actually has an interest in reality and truth, not just the contents of old books.
Did the media ever give Jerry Falwell a platform to say he was no less a sinner than those he condemned?
Why didn't he condemn himself then, and mind his own business? The rest of us never asked for his opinion. Who gave him the right to 'condemn' people? Like I said, he is just a self-important bigot who never outgrew the role of fat schoolyard bully.
-
So is torturing yourself over the relatively benign sin (eating fruit?!) of a hypothetical man and woman in a made-up allegorical story from an ancient text written by homo sapiens in the middle east a few thousand years ago.
Yes, if one of em gets it somehow. If the husband cheats or otherwise contracts HIV, it is Ratzinger's teaching (and his church's) that he and his wife must still not use condoms, and that she should accept her fate. Why must she die of AIDS for her husband's bad luck or adultery?! Sheer stupidity!
There are a number of victims when a person sins and/or breaks secular law. You could ask the same question about the man who commits a crime, is sent to jail, and his family suffers as a result. I know a guy who's ex-wife recently pleaded guilty to selling drugs. She was a school teacher with three kids. Imagine the shame the kids have to endure at school. The guy didn't like having his name plastered all over the media either (even though he had nothing to do with his ex-wife's crime). I don't view sin any differently. One person's actions can have far reaching consequences.
-
Yes, I am hostile to stupidity. Hostility to stupidity is the only way mankind can hope to make any progress. If great men and women in our history had not stood up to stupidity, we'd still be ruled by popes and absolute monarchs...
-
There are a number of victims when a person sins and/or breaks secular law. You could ask the same question about the man who commits a crime, is sent to jail, and his family suffers as a result. I know a guy who's ex-wife recently pleaded guilty to selling drugs. She was a school teacher with three kids. Imagine the shame the kids have to endure at school. The guy didn't like having his name plastered all over the media either (even though he had nothing to do with his ex-wife's crime). I don't view sin any differently. One person's actions can have far reaching consequences.
You are changing the topic. If a man somehow contracts HIV, is it permissible for him and his wife to use a condom during sex? Or must she contract HIV because Mr Ratzinger says so?
-
You are changing the topic. If a man somehow contracts HIV, is it permissible for him and his wife to use a condom during sex? Or must she contract HIV because Mr Ratzinger says so?
I'm not changing the topic. . . . What's the topic?
I don't think condom use is a "sin" if that's what you're asking. Who is Ratzinger?
-
Ratzinger is the man in white robes that Catholics like to defer to.
You don't think condom use is a sin. OK. Do you think it is OK for the Catholic church to tell millions of Africans that getting AIDS is better than using condoms?
-
Ratzinger is the man in white robes that Catholics like to defer to.
You don't think condom use is a sin. OK. Do you think it is OK for the Catholic church to tell millions of Africans that getting AIDS is better than using condoms?
Of course not. When and where did the Catholic church say this?
-
If you google it, you get endless hits on the subject. Here's one: http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00.html)
-
I am sorry that you have not had the benefit on a scientific education. I do NOT mean to sound condescending, but you speak like a person who has not learned science. If you choose to ignore all of physics (that's where the billions come from) and biology, and instead focus only on one set of 'ancient' (just a few thousand year old) texts and say "this is all I need to know," that is entirely your choice.
Fortunately, much of the rest of mankind has forgone that view and actually has an interest in reality and truth, not just the contents of old books.
Why didn't he condemn himself then, and mind his own business? The rest of us never asked for his opinion. Who gave him the right to 'condemn' people? Like I said, he is just a self-important bigot who never outgrew the role of fat schoolyard bully.
He did condemn himself on many occassion, but based on your current mindset, where you looking in that direction? Probably not. I've heard him speak in person before. Now I didn't always agree with what he said, but my opinion differed only in the since that only God can pass the judgements he did, all the while realizing, that I myself judge everyday. Just like you do.
You must admit that you are quite bigoted yourself. No need to apologize for being condescending. You meant exactly what you said, therefore you need not apologize for your conviction. It's an elitest mindset, in my opinion, but you're entitled to what you believe.
-
Yes, I am hostile to stupidity. Hostility to stupidity is the only way mankind can hope to make any progress. If great men and women in our history had not stood up to stupidity, we'd still be ruled by popes and absolute monarchs...
If this doesn't epitomize the elitist mindset that I mentioned earlier, I don't know that it can be defined.
-
Me? Bigoted? Merriam Webster defines "bigot" as "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices."
I am not defending my opinions. I am defending facts, proved by science. Those are not opinions. And I would hardly call myself an elitist :)
-
Me? Bigoted? Merriam Webster defines "bigot" as "a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices."
I am not defending my opinions. I am defending facts, proved by science. Those are not opinions. And I would hardly call myself an elitist :)
Yes, I am hostile to stupidity. - are you not dogmatic in your belief that God doesn't actually exist, and that He didn't create us?
-
Let me clarify. I am not describing belief in a god (of the Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist etc varieties) as stupid.
What I would call "stupid" is statements like those of Jerry Falwell that I quoted in previous posts, or the Catholic church's insistence that it is better to get HIV than use a condom, or some Muslims' intense desire to blow themselves up and take as many people with them as they can.