Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: WhiteHulk4 on May 18, 2007, 07:13:52 AM
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I just got some BCAA Powder from NOW Sports. Just curious, can I take it with glutamine, or would they fight for absorption?
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I just got some BCAA Powder from NOW Sports. Just curious, can I take it with glutamine, or would they fight for absorption?
yes you can, i use BCAA+Glutamine from MRM and it's by far the best product i've ever used within 2 months of using it i've had at least 10 people comment on my added size and fullness, use it before and after workouts.
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I just got some BCAA Powder from NOW Sports. Just curious, can I take it with glutamine, or would they fight for absorption?
No, a very good combination. Taking glutamine and BCAA togehter will make the BCAA even more effective.
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The Glutamine i currently use has a gm of BCAA per serving. Seems to be doing the trick. After all glutamine is glutamine
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The Glutamine i currently use has a gm of BCAA per serving. Seems to be doing the trick. After all glutamine is glutamine
One gram?
You should take more than that, about 10g BCAA with a ratio of 50% Leucine, 25% Isoleucine and 25% Valin.
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For what its worth.
Oxidation of glutamine by the splanchnic bed in humans.
Haisch M, Fukagawa NK, Matthews DE.
Departments of Medicine and Chemistry, University of Vermont, Burlington, Vermont 05405, USA.
[1,2-(13)C(2)]glutamine and [ring-(2)H(5)]phenylalanine were infused for 7 h into five postabsorptive healthy subjects on two occasions. On one occasion, the tracers were infused intravenously for 3.5 h and then by a nasogastric tube for 3.5 h. The order of infusion was reversed on the other occasion. From the plasma tracer enrichment measurements at plateau during the intravenous and nasogastric infusion periods, we determined that 27 +/- 2% of the enterally delivered phenylalanine and 64 +/- 2% of the glutamine were removed on the first pass by the splanchnic bed. Glutamine flux was 303 +/- 8 micromol. kg(-1). h(-1). Of the enterally delivered [(13)C]glutamine tracer, 73 +/- 2% was recovered as exhaled CO(2) compared with 58 +/- 1% of the intravenously infused tracer. The fraction of the enterally delivered tracer that was oxidized specifically on the first pass by the splanchnic bed was 53 +/- 2%, comprising 83% of the total tracer extracted. From the appearance of (13)C in plasma glucose, we estimated that 7 and 10% of the intravenously and nasogastrically infused glutamine tracers, respectively, were converted to glucose. The results for glutamine flux and first-pass extraction were similar to our previously reported values when a [2-(15)N]glutamine tracer [Matthews DE, Morano MA, and Campbell RG, Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 264: E848-E854, 1993] was used. The results of [(13)C]glutamine tracer disposal demonstrate that the major fate of enteral glutamine extraction is for oxidation and that only a minor portion is used for gluconeogenesis.
Splanchnic bed utilization of glutamine and glutamic acid in humans.
Matthews DE, Marano MA, Campbell RG.
Department of Medicine, Cornell University Medical College, New York, New York 10021.
To study the fate of enterally delivered nonessential amino acids, glutamine and glutamate, 14 healthy adults were infused in the postabsorptive state with [2-15N]glutamine and [15N]glutamate for 7 h by intravenous (iv) and nasogastric (ng) tube routes. The amount of enterally delivered tracer that was sequestered by the splanchnic bed on the first pass was 54 +/- 4 and 88 +/- 2% for the [2-15N]glutamine and [15N]glutamate tracers, respectively. Only 46 and 12% of the ng glutamine and glutamate tracers entered systemic blood, respectively. The relative amount of 15N transferred from glutamate to glutamine, the transaminating amino acids leucine, isoleucine, valine, and alanine, and to proline was significantly higher when the [15N]glutamate was infused by the ng vs. iv route. The same was also true for [2-15N]glutamine, which presumably transferred 15N after it was converted to glutamate. Thus we conclude that the splanchnic bed sequesters over one-half of the glutamine and almost all of the glutamate delivered to it in the postabsorptive state. There is production of transaminating amino acids in the splanchnic bed, and the splanchnic bed produces simultaneously both glutamine from glutamate and glutamate from glutamine.
For those that think peptides are better, I believe this is the only one comparing the two.
Free and protein-bound glutamine have identical splanchnic extraction in healthy human volunteers.
Boza JJ, Dangin M, Moennoz D, Montigon F, Vuichoud J, Jarret A, Pouteau E, Gremaud G, Oguey-Araymon S, Courtois D, Woupeyi A, Finot PA, Ballevre O.
Nestle Research Center, Vers-Chez-Les-Blanc, 1000 Lausanne 26, Switzerland.
The objectives of the present study were to determine the splanchnic extraction of glutamine after ingestion of glutamine-rich protein ((15)N-labeled oat proteins) and to compare it with that of free glutamine and to determine de novo glutamine synthesis before and after glutamine consumption. Eight healthy adults were infused intravenously in the postabsorptive state with L-[1-(13)C]glutamine (3 micromol x kg(-1) x h(-1)) and L-[1-(13)C]lysine (1.5 micromol x kg(-1) x h(-1)) for 8 h. Four hours after the beginning of the infusion, subjects consumed (every 20 min) a liquid formula providing either 2.5 g of protein from (15)N-labeled oat proteins or a mixture of free amino acids that mimicked the oat-amino acid profile and contained L-[2,5-(15)N(2)]glutamine and L-[2-(15)N]lysine. Splanchnic extraction of glutamine reached 62.5 +/- 5.0% and 66.7 +/- 3.9% after administration of (15)N-labeled oat proteins and the mixture of free amino acids, respectively. Lysine splanchnic extraction was also not different (40.9 +/- 11.9% and 34.9 +/- 10.6% for (15)N-labeled oat proteins and free amino acids, respectively). The main conclusion of the present study is that glutamine is equally bioavailable when given enterally as a free amino acid and when protein bound. Therefore, and taking into consideration the drawbacks of free glutamine supplementation of ready-to-use formulas for enteral nutrition, protein sources naturally rich in this amino acid are the best option for providing stable glutamine.
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83% of glutamine is oxidized by the gut, little is absorbed and the rest is part of gluconogenesis.
it is an important amino, but other aminos can be used to make it, and it appears the mega supplementation of glutamine is basically a waste of money.
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L-glutamine by Fonz:
"I can't believe some people still believe in this supplement BS.
There are only 5g of Amino Acids in the Blood stream at any given time. This is VERY tightly controlled by your body.
Out of those 5g of AA's, 61% is glutamine.
So, 3g of glutamine in the Blood stream at any given time.
95%(Probably more) of all ingested glutamine is destroyed by the stomach acids(PH is too acidic).
Whatever glutamine manages to survive the stomach intact, can only be used at a certain rate.
Assume, that there is a 66% depletion in Blood stream glutamine(Only 1g instead of 3g(61%))
Therefore, only 2g of glutaqmine can be absorbed by the bloodstream and theoretically be used.
So,what does this all mean:
Out of 100g of ORALLY ingested glutamine, only MAYBE 1-2g can be used AT MAXIMUM.
Complete and utter waste of money IMO.
Now IV Glutamine is another story. THAT works and is what the supplement companies show in websites to fool you."
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83% of glutamine is oxidized by the gut, little is absorbed and the rest is part of gluconogenesis.
it is an important amino, but other aminos can be used to make it, and it appears the mega supplementation of glutamine is basically a waste of money.
Don't you get it???
Yes, it is oxidized, that's the thing about it!!!!!!!!!
Otherwise the body will produce glutamine from other amino acids and oxidize these. Stop rating against glutamine, you have something missing in your train of thoughts. Think about it again, please.
BTW, glutamine is best cosumed sublingual, not orally. ;)
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Don't you get it???
Yes, it is oxidized, that's the thing about it!!!!!!!!!
Otherwise the body will produce glutamine from other amino acids and oxidize these. Stop rating against glutamine, you have something missing in your train of thoughts. Think about it again, please.
BTW, glutamine is best cosumed sublingual, not orally. ;)
haha, it sucks as a supplement, every bit of research indicates this.
i dont know why you continue to think its great. it is conditionally essential, and is tightly controlled by the body by homeostasis.
little to none of the orally consumed glutamine gets absorbed or remains intact. It is cheaper to consume carbs as that is the endpoint of glutamine that is supplemented.
please, stop with the rhetoric and post some scietific evidence for your claims. Didnt you read the studies above. im trying to help you, glutamine is not good for gaining muscle, and is super expensive at anywere to effective doses(100-200grams a day).
im not ranting, im just trying to save people some money.
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everyones hero lanye on glutamine
"sorry to break it to you guys but glutamine is the biggest scham in the history of the supplement industry.
You see, unfortunately, not much glutamine makes it into the bloodstream from oral supplementation. When glutamine enters the small intestine and is absorbed into the mucosal cell, it is then metabolized via brush boarder enzymes to two different products. One product is alanine which is created from the alpha nitrogen on glutamine, the other product is the carbon skelaton left over with the epsilon nitrogen. This carbon skelaton is then oxidized by the gut for fuel while the ammonia group is excreted, or may enter the urea cycle. The alanine from this process is sent to the liver via the portal vein where it is used to form glucose via gluconeogenesis. It is in this way that our body prevents us from overloading ourselves with individual amino acids. The liver and mucosal cells act as a buffer to the peripheral tissues. If this buffer wasn't in place it could have dire health consequences. So to recap, you can't overload yourself with certain amino acids, b/c before ANY nutrient that is orally administered enters the blood stream, it has to pass by the liver, and since the liver regulates amino acid levels, if it "sees" that things may get out of wack it will retain these substrates for gluconeogenesis (making glucose from amino acids) which it will then pass on to the peripheral tissues."
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God, how many times do i have to tell you??
Glutamine is absorbed, that's ok.
supplementing glutamine saves other ingested protein from being transformed to glutamine.
Glutamine makes 60% of muscle amino acids. If you do not supplement it, nearly all other amino acids will be converted into glutamine.
You are right with everything you post, but you are missing something, don't you see it?
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God, how many times do i have to tell you??
Glutamine is absorbed, that's ok.
supplementing glutamine saves other ingested protein from being transformed to glutamine.
Glutamine makes 60% of muscle amino acids. If you do not supplement it, nearly all other amino acids will be converted into glutamine.
You are right with everything you post, but you are missing something, don't you see it?
only three grams of glutamine are maintained in the bloodstream, do you think that muscle wasting will occur with only three grams needed?
also, it can be made very very very easy from all other aminos.
i see what your saying but your wrong. read the research.
if your concerned with glutamine levels, which never vary because the body maintains them tightly, eat some protein.
IT DOES NOT ABSORB THROUGH YOUR STOMACH, IT IS DESTROYED BY STOMACH ACID TO THE TUNE OF 95%, IT IS ALSO DISSECTED INTO OTHER AMINOS AND HAS NO EFFECT ON CELLULAR(IMPORATANT) GLUTAMINE LEVELS.
its NOT absorbed when taken orally in sufficient amounts to warrant supplementation.
post some proof of this claim
"Glutamine makes 60% of muscle amino acids. If you do not supplement it, nearly all other amino acids will be converted into glutamine"
this is not the case, and is false beyond beleif. At minimal protein requirments, glutamine is maintained in the blood and especially at the cellular level. Im not missing anything, ive read the research, ive listened to others debate, it does nothing whatsoever when taken orally for bodybuilding.
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God, how many times do i have to tell you??
Glutamine is absorbed, that's ok.
its not absorbed.
the point is that high cellular concentrations of glutamine would cause problems, such that excess above 3 grams or so is excreted, used to create glucose.
also, you are not taking into account how easy it is, with little cost, to make glutamine in the body.
it is the easiest amino to create and for a reason(your theory that it spares aminos makes no sense, if you actually look at glutamine construction). supplementing will do nothing for bodybuilding.
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its not absorbed.
the point is that high cellular concentrations of glutamine would cause problems, such that excess above 3 grams or so is excreted, used to create glucose.
also, you are not taking into account how easy it is, with little cost, to make glutamine in the body.
it is the easiest amino to create and for a reason(your theory that it spares aminos makes no sense, if you actually look at glutamine construction). supplementing will do nothing for bodybuilding.
What's your opinion on BCAA supplementation?
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What's your opinion on BCAA supplementation?
leucine,iso-leucine and valine are excellant supplements.
leucine in particular has proven anabolic effects.
i would look for a bcaa that is front loaded with leucine, as that is the main amino your looking for.
if you can afford it 20-30 grams of leucine a day will have dramatic effects. However, this can lower plasma concentrations of the other aminos, namely the other bcaa's. This shouldnt be a problem if you supplement with other bcaas and consume a high protein diet.
high dose leucine is amazing for muscle gains and recovery.
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can somebody tell me which foods have glutamine in it? i want to concentrate on real food instead of powder. thanks
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can somebody tell me which foods have glutamine in it? i want to concentrate on real food instead of powder. thanks
protein
hope this helps.
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I get a tremendous vascular pump from Glutamine-much much better than creatine.
To say that glutamine is wortless or has no effect is bullshit. All people may not react the same but i know for a fact glutamine works for me.
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can somebody tell me which foods have glutamine in it? i want to concentrate on real food instead of powder. thanks
cottage cheese has a shitload.
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I get a tremendous vascular pump from Glutamine-much much better than creatine.
To say that glutamine is wortless or has no effect is bullshit. All people may not react the same but i know for a fact glutamine works for me.
this is what is called invincible ignorance, everyone take note.
placebo effect,nothing more, unless you defy science.
this should be a place for facts not rhetoric. your anecdotal evidence will cost people money.
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no, you are linking flawed studies. Its absolutely ridiculous to say glutamine's benefits are all placebo effect. hahahaha
Go ahead and link the numerous articles from the 60s that said steroids dont work and its all placebo efect. ::)
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no, you are linking flawed studies. Its absolutely ridiculous to say glutamine's benefits are all placebo effect. hahahaha
Go ahead and link the numerous articles from the 60s that said steroids dont work and its all placebo efect. ::)
You dont understand what the study is saying do you?
admit it?
oral adminstered glutamine has little effect for muscle growth etc.
it is good for sleep, immune system, and digestive troubles.
you have never read a research article have you? the fact that your saying flawed studies indicates your ignorance.
all your doing is perpetuating ignorance, and myth.
point out the methodological flaw if you would please?
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polesmoker, use google. There are many studies that support glutamines use. ::)
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polesmoker, use google. There are many studies that support glutamines use. ::)
post them.
for muscle growth.
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Glutamine doesn't make your muscles grow. It prevents catabolism under stress.
Glutamine is a conditionally essential amino acid that the body needs more of when a person is under physical exertion, stress or is sick. L-Glutamine has been shown to help with gastro intestinal conditions and enhances the body’s natural immune response.
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Glutamine doesn't make your muscles grow. It prevents catabolism under stress.
Glutamine is a conditionally essential amino acid that the body needs more of when a person is under physical exertion, stress or is sick. L-Glutamine has been shown to help with gastro intestinal conditions and enhances the body’s natural immune response.
buying supplemented glutamine has little effect, hence the studies i posted and the multitude of others ive posted.
your body can make/get all the glutamine it requires through daily supplementation.
if you have some studies post them i would be interested in reading them as i know you know your shit.
it seems to be effective, for sleep via gabanergic agonism and immune(food may be adequete) and digestion(best option imo).
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buying supplemented glutamine has little effect, hence the studies i posted and the multitude of others ive posted.
your body can make/get all the glutamine it requires through daily supplementation.
if you have some studies post them i would be interested in reading them as i know you know your shit.
it seems to be effective, for sleep via gabanergic agonism and immune(food may be adequete) and digestion(best option imo).
Well, when I get some time this week I will post some stuff I have. Like I mentioned before, get
The Ultimate Nutrient, Glutamine By Judy Shabert, it is the best book on the stuff.
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Well, when I get some time this week I will post some stuff I have. Like I mentioned before, get
The Ultimate Nutrient, Glutamine By Judy Shabert, it is the best book on the stuff.
ok thanks
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A lot of companies mix bcaa's and glutamine together. Scivation does with Xtend and Xtreme formulations Ice does as well.
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A lot of companies mix bcaa's and glutamine together. Scivation does with Xtend and Xtreme formulations Ice does as well.
do to its refeed qualities and other benefits
.
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Yes, this is a good combo. You should try the Optimum BCAA's and Glutamine. It works great for me!
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Glutamine does have anti-catabolic actions, but they are very mild and only occur with extremely high doses. It must taken buffered and with glucose to maximize absorption, as the insulin removes other amino acids from the bloodstream and maximizes the absorption of glutamine into muscles.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Glutamine does have anti-catabolic actions, but they are very mild and only occur with extremely high doses. It must taken buffered and with glucose to maximize absorption, as the insulin removes other amino acids from the bloodstream and maximizes the absorption of glutamine into muscles.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
no, take glutamine sublingual.
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no, take glutamine sublingual.
your back from your epic meltdown.
you calm now?
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your back from your epic meltdown.
you calm now?
hahaa, if you believe everything SF writes in his edited PM, you are dumber than Lindsay Lohan DUIing. ::) ::)
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And btw, i'm back from a great holiday in France. :-*
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And btw, i'm back from a great holiday in France. :-*
Better start picking out some sickeningly sweet wall paper for the nursery room. Congratulations, your life is over. :P
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hahaa, if you believe everything SF writes in his edited PM, you are dumber than Lindsay Lohan DUIing. ::) ::)
glutamine induced meltdown. :D
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Better start picking out some sickeningly sweet wall paper for the nursery room. Congratulations, your life is over. :P
Did i miss something??
glutamine induced meltdown. :D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Did i miss something??
he wants to have your child
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Did i miss something??
Holiday ratings:
"Great!" = Lotsa sex
"It was ok." = I jerked off on the nudist beach daily.
he wants to have your child
If they're not gonna keep it, then sure. Babies are highly anabolic if you don't cook all the nutrients out.
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Holiday ratings:
"Great!" = Lotsa sex
"It was ok." = I jerked off on the nudist beach daily.
If they're not gonna keep it, then sure. Babies are highly anabolic if you don't cook all the nutrients out.
haha, yeah you cannot imagine how good sex is on the 8th floor with a great view over whole paris. ;D ;D
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haha, yeah you cannot imagine how good sex is on the 8th floor with a great view over whole paris. ;D ;D
whos the lucky guy?
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whos the lucky guy?
haha, jealousy. :-* :-* ;D ;D
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haha, jealousy. :-* :-* ;D ;D
kevin was a good man. :(