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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: OzmO on May 19, 2007, 08:29:42 AM
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Carter attacks Blair for 'blind' support of US in Iraq
May 19 08:07 AM US/Eastern
Former US president Jimmy Carter on Saturday attacked outgoing Prime Minister Tony Blair for his "blind" support of the Iraq war, describing it as a "major tragedy for the world".
In an interview with BBC radio, Carter was asked how he would describe Blair's attitude to US President George W. Bush. He replied: "Abominable. Loyal, blind, apparently subservient.
"I think that the almost undeviating support by Great Britain for the ill-advised policies of President Bush in Iraq have been a major tragedy for the world."
Blair, who arrived in Baghdad Saturday on an unannounced visit, has suffered politically and personally since declaring his support for Bush after the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States.
His backing of the war despite massive public opposition divided his governing Labour Party while the absence of weapons of mass destruction -- the basis for war -- and apparent manipulation of intelligence eroded trust.
There was further discontent last year when he joined Bush in refusing to back international calls on Israel to stop its bombing of Lebanon.
Carter, US president from 1977 to 1981, suggested Blair could have made a crucial difference to US political and public opinion by distancing himself during the build-up to the March 2003 invasion.
"I can't say it would have made a definitive difference. But it would certainly have assuaged the problems that have arisen lately," he said.
"One of the defences of the Bush administration, in America and worldwide -- it's not been successful in my opinion -- has been that, okay, we must be more correct in our actions than the world thinks because Great Britain is backing us.
"I think the combination of Bush and Blair giving their support to this tragedy in Iraq has strengthened the effort and has made opposition less effective and has prolonged the war and increased the tragedy that has resulted."
Carter has long been a critic of the war and has previously expressed his disappointment that Blair did not use his influence more wisely.
The former US leader, whose recent book "Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid" criticises his country's and Israeli policy, said the Iraq war had exacerbated tensions in the region and caused "deep schisms on a global basis".
But while bemoaning a lack of progress on the "road map" to peace in the Middle East, Carter, who brokered the Camp David agreement between Egypt's Anwar Sadat and Israel's Menachem Begin, said the agreement was still viable.
On Iraq, he said he hoped the unpopularity of the "unwarranted invasion" in Britain and the United States would lead to a withdrawal of troop.
But Gordon Brown, who is due to take over from Blair as prime minister on June 27, has said it would be "wrong" to pull out the country's troops immediately as Iraqis were assuming more control of security.
Blair made his last trip to Washington as premier on Thursday. Both he and Bush were defiant to the last over Iraq and said history would be the ultimate judge of their decision to invade.
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Yeah, the US would have been better off without our biggest ally's support. ::) Carter doesn't seem to care too much about his own people anymore.
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Yeah, the US would have been better off without our biggest ally's support. ::) Carter doesn't seem to care too much about his own people anymore.
No, what i think he's saying is that Britain followed blindly as BUSH lead both America and Britain down a dark path of incompetence.
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Oh noes.... a verbal lashing from one of the worst Presidents in U.S. history.
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Oh noes.... a verbal lashing from one of the worst Presidents in U.S. history.
And just think......he has a point lol ;D
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And just think......he has a point lol ;D
Meh... Carter is a world government loving socialist nipple.
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Meh... Carter is a world government loving socialist nipple.
And even then, no matter how much you hate him, he still has a point! Blair was stupid. Which brings the question:
Who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool that follows him?
(enter Star Wars theme music ;D)
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Blair's Downing Street memo shows they knew they were using poor intel to invade iraq, and didn't care.
if you read it, you'll understand. if you don't, well, keep on blindly supporting whatever you want without the facts.
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keep on blindly supporting whatever you want without the facts.
Isn't that a mantra sang in the church of the neotaint?
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yep. you're anti american if you question anything bush says or supports.
remember when beach bum and others were saying what a GREAT idea it was to bring 7000 Iraqi refugees to american soil to live, just because bush said so?
These folks were very anti-immigrant until bush announced yesterday that he is leading the bill for amnesty. They're being quiet for a few days, then they will return with "it's a great idea! I've always supported it".
They can't think for themselves, and they need a daddy to tell them what is right and wrong. I used to be the EXACT same way, so I know their mindset crystal clear. As they learn more and age, they'll realize the next flavor of repub party is far less evil, and will shake their heads at themselves for being so stupid/gullible.
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yep. you're anti american if you question anything bush says or supports.
remember when beach bum and others were saying what a GREAT idea it was to bring 7000 Iraqi refugees to american soil to live, just because bush said so?
These folks were very anti-immigrant until bush announced yesterday that he is leading the bill for amnesty. They're being quiet for a few days, then they will return with "it's a great idea! I've always supported it".
They can't think for themselves, and they need a daddy to tell them what is right and wrong. I used to be the EXACT same way, so I know their mindset crystal clear. As they learn more and age, they'll realize the next flavor of repub party is far less evil, and will shake their heads at themselves for being so stupid/gullible.
I don't see BB that way. He just a one of those fellas that has strong opinions and has to see strong evidence to change them. He has demonstrated on many occasions practical views and support on what others call Liberal issues.
I think sometimes you can confused that with blind following. But I'm not the one who has had major knock down and drag outs with him, so you could see it differently.
There is certainly a group of Bush supporters and conservatives on this board who refuse to see any wrong doing with the current administration even in the face of overwhelming evidence, facts and news.
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Meh... Carter is a world government loving socialist nipple.
lol :D
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I don't see BB that way. He just a one of those fellas that has strong opinions and has to see strong evidence to change them. He has demonstrated on many occasions practical views and support on what others call Liberal issues.
I think sometimes you can confused that with blind following. But I'm not the one who has had major knock down and drag outs with him, so you could see it differently.
There is certainly a group of Bush supporters and conservatives on this board who refuse to see any wrong doing with the current administration even in the face of overwhelming evidence, facts and news.
Thanks mang. :) Right again. Further proof that you are one of the most reasonable persons on the board, even though I don't always agree with you.
I just call things as I see them.
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Thanks mang. :) Right again. Further proof that you are one of the most reasonable persons on the board, even though I don't always agree with you.
I just call things as I see them.
Thanks bud :)
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Carter? is that commie still alive :D??
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yep. you're anti american if you question anything bush says or supports.
remember when beach bum and others were saying what a GREAT idea it was to bring 7000 Iraqi refugees to american soil to live, just because bush said so?
These folks were very anti-immigrant until bush announced yesterday that he is leading the bill for amnesty. They're being quiet for a few days, then they will return with "it's a great idea! I've always supported it".
They can't think for themselves, and they need a daddy to tell them what is right and wrong. I used to be the EXACT same way, so I know their mindset crystal clear. As they learn more and age, they'll realize the next flavor of repub party is far less evil, and will shake their heads at themselves for being so stupid/gullible.
He said the bill was fair you moron. Kennedy is leading the bill, yes Kennedy, a Dem. It is a bullshit proposal and even if Bush supported it I would be against it. You cannot understand any Republican mindset because you are not a Republican or conservative. You clearly don't see that keeping Mexicans here and making them citizens provides no benefit when they organize, and they will organize according to the AFL-CIO. They need to be gone. We will not compete with China when Mexicans and Americans are making the same wages. You talk about gullible yet cling to every CT website known to man to make your sad little world make sense. Not buying your brand of Bullshit doesn't make anyone on here less smart than you.
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You clearly don't see that keeping Mexicans here and making them citizens provides no benefit when they organize, and they will organize according to the AFL-CIO. They need to be gone. We will not compete with China when Mexicans and Americans are making the same wages.
You bring up a good point, cap. It may help our economy in the short run, but in the long run these people will only add to the educational gap between the western europe/japan/china/korea/india/russia and america. A can of Dole pineapples maybe cheaper now, but a future generation of americans will be less intelligent and less prepared to make an impact in an expanding global economy thanks to us basically letting illiterate people walk in by the millions. :(
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You bring up a good point, cap. It may help our economy in the short run, but in the long run these people will only add to the educational gap between the western europe/japan/china/korea/india/russia and america. A can of Dole pineapples maybe cheaper now, but a future generation of americans will be less intelligent and less prepared to make an impact in an expanding global economy thanks to us basically letting illiterate people walk in by the millions. :(
They already bring down test scores drastically in states like CA and AZ because they only learn Spanish from the families who never bother to learn English. I could go to Mexico and pick up Spanish just as easy as they could here. It is not hard. This is how language training works, immersion (which they are by living here) and interaction with locals help one develop conversational skills.
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They already bring down test scores drastically in states like CA and AZ because they only learn Spanish from the families who never bother to learn English. I could go to Mexico and pick up Spanish just as easy as they could here. It is not hard. This is how language training works, immersion (which they are by living here) and interaction with locals help one develop conversational skills.
Just walk around and NYC and you'll see how pompous these people have become.. They'll speak spanish to almost everyone with full-on confidence and they'll even get angry when someone replys with a "what?!"
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And even then, no matter how much you hate him, he still has a point! Blair was stupid. Which brings the question:
Who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool that follows him?
(enter Star Wars theme music ;D)
Carter is the fool in this situation. You simply can not appease religious zealots that want to destroy you.
Blair gets it. The west is in for a hell of a fight.
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Carter is the fool in this situation. You simply can not appease religious zealots that want to destroy you.
Blair gets it. The west is in for a hell of a fight.
but no one is following him. They don't need to. Carter is only stating the obvious.
You cannot appease religious zealots, so very true, but you can use the support of those who are in power in the surrounding countries. And we have done nothing to that end......BUSH is a moron.
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Carter finally said what someone else of reasonable prominence should've said years ago, it's long overdue. Glad to have it finally out there. Carter IS a little extreme but he's correct; maybe this and the Wolfowitz debacle will finally force Bush into lucidy he's managed to avoid till now, though it's doubtful.
Bush is a great example of the dangers of one guy with too much power, and the American system to some extent. As someone said recently, in the British system he'd already be out or close to it.
Who knew he was going to be this bad? I've been thinking worst-ever president in history for some time now. And don't say you knew that he was going to be THIS bad 4-5 years ago, no one did.
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Actually Ford said it too, in an interview with Bob Woodward which was to be released after his death.
He criticized Bush, the decision for war, etc etc. You guys remember this, right? First week of january 07.
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Actually Ford said it too, in an interview with Bob Woodward which was to be released after his death.
He criticized Bush, the decision for war, etc etc. You guys remember this, right? First week of january 07.
True, on the other hand i don't think he was quite as harsh/stark in his wording, and it was postumous, coming from a third party. Not the same effect.
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And just think......he has a point lol ;D
And he was dead on with this comment.
“I think as far as the adverse impact on the nation around the world, this administration has been the worst in history."
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True, on the other hand i don't think he was quite as harsh/stark in his wording, and it was postumous, coming from a third party. Not the same effect.
Seeing as Ford is more widely respected than Carter, its impact was larger in the judgment aspect, albeit posthumously.
ex Prezs very rarely judge current admins. For two of them - plus Bush41's comments - to speak out on it is big.
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Jimmy Carter Backtracks on Calling Bush Administration Worst in U.S. History
Monday, May 21, 2007
CRAWFORD, Texas — Former President Jimmy Carter backed off Monday from harshly critical comments he made of President Bush over the weekend after the White House offered a biting rebuke to the former president by calling him "increasingly irrelevant."
"My remarks were maybe careless or misinterpreted but I wasn't comparing the overall administration and certainly not talking about anyone personally," Carter said in an interview Monday when asked to explain.
The comments "were interpreted as comparing this whole administration to all other administrations when what I was actually doing was responding to a question about foreign policy between [President Richard] Nixon and this administration, and I think that this administration's foreign policy compared to Nixon's was much worse. ... I wasn't comparing this administration with other administrations throughout history but just with President Nixon's," he told NBC's "The Today Show."
Carter, whose administration was plagued by sky-high inflation and a 444-day American hostage crisis in Iran, was filling in a quote Saturday in which he said, "I think as far as the adverse impact on the nation around the world, this administration has been the worst in history."
Former President Carter Blasts Bush's Administration as 'Worst in History' The Georgia Democrat said Bush had overseen an "overt reversal of America's basic values" as epressed by previous administrations, including that of his own farther, former President George H.W. Bush.
Carter made the comments to the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette in a story that appeared in the newspaper's Saturday editions. On Sunday, the White House bit back.
"I think it's sad that President Carter's reckless personal criticism is out there," White House spokesman Tony Fratto responded from Crawford, Texas, where Bush spent the weekend.
"I think it's unfortunate," Fratto said. "And I think he is proving to be increasingly irrelevant with these kinds of comments."
. . .
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,274140,00.html
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It doesn't change the truth of the matter...no matter who said it. Very sad.
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Seeing as Ford is more widely respected than Carter, its impact was larger in the judgment aspect, albeit posthumously.
ex Prezs very rarely judge current admins. For two of them - plus Bush41's comments - to speak out on it is big.
Ford was not more widely respected, this is your interpretation. The "impact" from Ford's comments was far lower, actually.
Too bad Carter backtracked there was no reason and won't change the effect. :D