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Title: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Bluto on June 11, 2007, 02:39:47 PM
well the story goes that arnold had it all but bad calves (lets keep in mind legs wasnt as important back then as today)

so the story goes he cut his shorts to remind him of them bla bla and he ended up with good calves development

my question is - is this a myth? maybe he just didnt train them much back in the fatherland?

or did he really, succeed where so many before and after him fail, to bring up a weak bodypart like calves who more than any other (maybe with the exception of forearms) is based on genetics?

and if he did, what was his program!
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY had bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Hedgehog on June 11, 2007, 02:41:13 PM
well the story goes that arnold had it all but bad calves (lets keep in mind legs wasnt as important back then as today)

so the story goes he cut his shorts to remind him of them bla bla and he ended up with good calves development

my question is - is this a myth? maybe he just didnt train them much back in the fatherland?

or did he really, succeed where so many before and after him fail, to bring up a weak bodypart like calves who more than any other (maybe with the exception of forearms) is based on genetics?

and if he did, what was his program!

He did the Reg Park calf routine.

-Hedge
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY had bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Bluto on June 11, 2007, 02:43:01 PM
He did the Reg Park calf routine.

-Hedge

dont know it! but i guess it can be found by some digging.

im surprised not everybody with bad calves development doesnt search for it, that is if it truely made a difference and he had bad genetics for calves to begin with whcih i question
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: pumpster on June 11, 2007, 02:45:03 PM
Moral of the story: try many different routines coupled with some balls before lazily concluding that genetics are a problem.
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY had bad genetics for calves?
Post by: jwb on June 11, 2007, 02:46:21 PM
I always thought it was BS.

His insertion points were never that high he just barely trained them for the first few years that is all.

Reg Park DID have fucking beautiful calves though...
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Bluto on June 11, 2007, 02:47:31 PM
Moral of the story: try many different routines coupled with some balls before lazily concluding that genetics are a problem.

but how many examples are there with people with weak calves that succeed to really bring em up?
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Palpatine Q on June 11, 2007, 02:52:14 PM
People like to shit on Arnold because he had the IFBB in his pocket, and the baboon Sergio didn't

But he was a fucking maniac in the gym
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY had bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Hedgehog on June 11, 2007, 03:01:51 PM
dont know it! but i guess it can be found by some digging.

im surprised not everybody with bad calves development doesnt search for it, that is if it truely made a difference and he had bad genetics for calves to begin with whcih i question

Arnold basically did 100 reps every day with a very heavy weight if I recall it.

Czech ( ;)) this article, IMO a pretty good read for the natural trainer who wants to incorporate that kind of training.

Ie, go just as heavy, but don't train every day.

-Hedge
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Bluto on June 11, 2007, 03:03:58 PM
I'm thinking of putting  a seated calf machine in front of my computer and do high reps while posting!

hedge: i didnt see no link to article
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: phyxsius on June 11, 2007, 03:04:42 PM
Arnold is a very smart and hard worker in the gym.. He knows how to impact weak bodyparts.
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Bluto on June 11, 2007, 03:05:59 PM
so EXACTLY what did he do

personally im leaning towards that he had pretty good genetics for calves too, maybe not as good as chest but still

he just made it a priority to work them

Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Palpatine Q on June 11, 2007, 03:10:27 PM
so EXACTLY what did he do

personally im leaning towards that he had pretty good genetics for calves too, maybe not as good as chest but still

he just made it a priority to work them



I would agree, you don't turn high calves into low calves no matter how hard you try.  same with bi's, pecs....whatever.

For example Arnold's chest covered more than half his torso, mike Mentzer's didn't and there ain't a fucking thing he could do about it.
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: jwb on June 11, 2007, 03:22:04 PM
I would agree, you don't turn high calves into low calves no matter how hard you try.  same with bi's, pecs....whatever.

For example Arnold's chest covered more than half his torso, mike Mentzer's didn't and there ain't a fucking thing he could do about it.
cell distribution is the key.

arnold had pretty reasonable cell distribution. ie. his calves were not terribly high
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: haider on June 11, 2007, 03:41:51 PM
Arnold probably got calf implants. Not highly unlikely is it, considering that calves are generally a very "genetic" bodypart? He may have had us fooled for decades now  :D
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: jwb on June 11, 2007, 03:45:12 PM
Arnold probably got calf implants. Not highly unlikely is it, considering that calves are generally a very "genetic" bodypart? He may have had us fooled for decades now  :D
total BS.

just watch the prison scene in twins to see arnolds calves flex... implants can't do that
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: haider on June 11, 2007, 03:49:08 PM
total BS.

just watch the prison scene in twins to see arnolds calves flex... implants can't do that
how the hell could he neglect his calves for so long then bring them up overnight like that after deciding he needed to work them out "extra hard"? LOL! makes you go hmmmmmmmmm  ;)
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: jwb on June 11, 2007, 03:52:34 PM
how the hell could he neglect his calves for so long then bring them up overnight like that after deciding he needed to work them out "extra hard"? LOL! makes you go hmmmmmmmmm  ;)
look closely at the 1967 pics of arnold's calves... they weren't THAT bad by that stage.

between 1966 when he placed second to chet yorton and 1970 when he won the olympia he brought them up very well but that is still 3 years not three months.

Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: haider on June 11, 2007, 03:56:03 PM
look closely at the 1967 pics of arnold's calves... they weren't THAT bad by that stage.

between 1966 when he placed second to chet yorton and 1970 when he won the olympia he brought them up very well that that is still 3 years not three months.


how bad were his calves in 1966? Calves are generally very "genetic", i.e. if you don't have decent calves within 2-3 yrs of lifting you will never have good calves. I believe by 1966 he'd been training calves + juicing already for many many years, so how could he bring them up THAT drastically, even if it took him a couple of years?
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Hedgehog on June 11, 2007, 04:07:42 PM
Arnold probably got calf implants. Not highly unlikely is it, considering that calves are generally a very "genetic" bodypart? He may have had us fooled for decades now  :D

I didn't rule that out before.

But the calf thread by Max Rep made me positive that it was possible for Arnold to make them big through training.

And with his drive? I think it's very likely actually.

JMO.
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Camel Jockey on June 11, 2007, 04:10:26 PM
Arnold has low inserting calves, noobs. They can be brought up with some work in no time. People with high calves will have trouble though.
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Palpatine Q on June 11, 2007, 04:13:19 PM
Arnold probably got calf implants. Not highly unlikely is it, considering that calves are generally a very "genetic" bodypart? He may have had us fooled for decades now  :D

Arnold din't get calf implants in the early 70's

I don't think there was such a thing, and if there was it would have been for the rich, not some nobody bodybuilder.

He wasn't ARNOLD IN THE 70'S
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: jwb on June 11, 2007, 04:13:27 PM
how bad were his calves in 1966? Calves are generally very "genetic", i.e. if you don't have decent calves within 2-3 yrs of lifting you will never have good calves. I believe by 1966 he'd been training calves + juicing already for many many years, so how could he bring them up THAT drastically, even if it took him a couple of years?
calves are genetic but people still aren't popping out with 20 inch gams when they are born (unless they are samoan!)

arnolds calves were not great in 1966... one of the reasons yorton beat him.

but even by the following year they had come up a lot... by 1970 they were good... by 1974 they were very good
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: haider on June 11, 2007, 04:14:53 PM
I don't care what u fvcker's say, I'd have to look at the pics myself  :D
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: jwb on June 11, 2007, 04:24:53 PM
I don't care what u fvcker's say, I'd have to look at the pics myself  :D
don't forget arnold is one of the world's greatest bullshit artists.

it sounded all romantic in education of a bodybuilder that he started doing 1000lb calf raises and brought his calves up in no time once he came to america but I don't buy it.

he lost to yorton in 1966 and started getting mentored by wag bennett at the same time. no way a guy like wag wouldn't urge him to start training calves harder at that stage instead of waiting another 2 years to do it.



Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: pumpster on June 11, 2007, 05:19:20 PM
but how many examples are there with people with weak calves that succeed to really bring em up?


I don't know of too many other stories like Arnold's where we know they really went out of their way. They say they did but we don't know.


Quote
personally im leaning towards that he had pretty good genetics for calves too, maybe not as good as chest but still

Hard to say; obviously they weren't bad if he could bring them up but might've needed something out of the ordinary to get them there-willing to try a different more effective routine plus hard work. I don't know that the guys who've never had good calves had done either one let alone both.
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Bluto on June 11, 2007, 05:20:34 PM
I don't know of too many other stories like Arnold's where we know they really went out of their way. They say they did but we don't know.

so what did arnold do that was so exceptional
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: pumpster on June 11, 2007, 05:23:10 PM
don't forget arnold is one of the world's greatest bullshit artists.

it sounded all romantic in education of a bodybuilder that he started doing 1000lb calf raises and brought his calves up in no time once he came to america but I don't buy it.



Total BS in general but in regards to everything around BB in general-training, contests, posing he's a total fan the same way Pete Rose is a baseball aficionado.
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: pumpster on June 11, 2007, 05:26:54 PM
so what did arnold do that was so exceptional


He was willing to ask/try something else in order to bring up weak points. Other guys like Coleman obviously didn't do everything they could to balance out, leaving the thighs too big later on, and IMO neglecting the calves. Obviously Coleman could've brought the thighs down at least, but never bothered it wasn't that he couldn't have done it it was a choice.
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: donrhummy on June 11, 2007, 08:57:42 PM
Arnold probably got calf implants. Not highly unlikely is it, considering that calves are generally a very "genetic" bodypart? He may have had us fooled for decades now  :D

Give me a break. So, back in the late 1960's Arnold got imlants that look like REAL calves, but in the 1990's and 2000's everyone's calf implants are completely FAKE looking?  ::) This is the DUMBEST idea. Why does no one see how unlikely it is that in the last 40 years only Arnold (40 years ago) got real looking implants.
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: monstercalves on June 11, 2007, 09:04:28 PM
arnold's calves  ;)
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: pumpster on June 11, 2007, 09:04:47 PM
Arnold probably got calf implants. Not highly unlikely is it, considering that calves are generally a very "genetic" bodypart? He may have had us fooled for decades now  :D
Assinine, but pretty much what you expect from this twit.
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: cswol on June 11, 2007, 09:35:39 PM
an old-timer at gold's venice who is friends with arnold, said that he would go to germany for weeks at a time and take a ton of injections of the best roids in all bodyparts, and come back to venice huge, he was the first master or site injections.
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Earl1972 on June 11, 2007, 09:40:05 PM
I think he said the calves need atleast 500 hours of training for them to be decent

E
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: pumpster on June 11, 2007, 09:40:47 PM
an old-timer at gold's venice who is friends with arnold, said that he would go to germany for weeks at a time and take a ton of injections of the best roids in all bodyparts, and come back to venice huge, he was the first master or site injections.

And you believed this?  ::)
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: suckmymuscle on June 11, 2007, 09:52:24 PM
  Let's cut this crap about Arnold having shitty calves because it's simply not true. His calves were incredible both in size as well as in having that crazy diamond shape. It just so happens that Arnold's calves, as well as his quads, were overpowered by his massive pecs and arms. His calves might have been a weak point for him, but they were still bigger than that of 99% of current juice using bodybuilders, and that incredible.

SUCKMYMUSCLE
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: cswol on June 11, 2007, 10:08:05 PM
hey pumpster, why do you not want to believe arnold was a master of site injections, look at the last photo of his calves, the 3 pics side by side, dont you see the knot in the middle of his calf from an inject on the middle picture.........you guys are pathetic.
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Bodies on June 11, 2007, 10:37:20 PM
his gastrocs are fucking INSANE in those pics above - I think he just had insane genetics so that when he decided to really bomb a bodypart - any bodypart - it would just blow up out of control...
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: bigkubby on June 12, 2007, 12:33:52 AM
HE HAD REASONABLE CALVES THAT INSERT LOW BUT IM SURE HE WORKED HIS ASS OFF? EVER SEEN HOW WELL THEY LOOK IN PUMPING IRON?
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Bluto on June 12, 2007, 12:35:00 AM
 "The calves are like no other muscle, and every day they seem to have a different mood," he said. "Sometimes I can do calf raises with shoes on and it feels better, then other times the shoes get in the way and I have to do this exercise with bare feet.... It's strange; kind of supernatural.

"A secret I learned is to test the calves' personality or attitude with two or three sets, then I know which way they want to go that particular day. The calves will let you know--just give them a chance to 'talk' to you." He went on to say it's "almost like they have a mind of their own--a brain that the other muscles don't have."

OAK TIPS

* Arnold couldn't use enough variety in his calf training. Anything that would shock the stubborn calves was fair game--high reps, low reps, super-short rest periods (15-30 seconds), supersets, you name it.

* For the most part, he took his calf exercises through a full range of motion--down for a full stretch and up until they nearly cramped. However, he also occasionally did full sets of partial reps, which allowed him to go much heavier, or finished off regular sets with a few partials.

EXERCISE              SETS  REPS

Donkey Calf Raise     5     15-30
Standing Calf Raise   5     15-30
Leg-Press Calf Raise  5     20-30
Standing One-         3     15-30
  Legged Calf Raise
  (with a dumbbell)

* STANDING ONE-LEGGED CALF RAISE

Holding a dumbbell in one hand, Arnold would stand on one leg on a wooden block, concentrating on each calf muscle separately. He made sure the block was high enough so his heel wouldn't touch the floor at the bottom of the movement, even though he stretched the calf fully on each rep.
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Bluto on June 12, 2007, 12:53:47 AM
article says he did low reps, high reps

but in the routine he never went lower than 15 reps!
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Get Rowdy on June 12, 2007, 03:23:23 AM
"The calves are like no other muscle, and every day they seem to have a different mood," he said. "Sometimes I can do calf raises with shoes on and it feels better, then other times the shoes get in the way and I have to do this exercise with bare feet.... It's strange; kind of supernatural.

"A secret I learned is to test the calves' personality or attitude with two or three sets, then I know which way they want to go that particular day. The calves will let you know--just give them a chance to 'talk' to you." He went on to say it's "almost like they have a mind of their own--a brain that the other muscles don't have."


From Muscle Builder/Power May 1974
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: gh15 on June 12, 2007, 04:03:13 AM
arnold didnt have bad genetics for nothing,,arnold today if competed and was in his 30s would still be mr o and would do it as many times as ron if not more,,

arnold didnt use any of the newer products such as igf1lr3,,mgf and pegmgf,,191aa Hgh,,
arnold didnt have masteron ENANTAT,,arnold didnt have letrozole or aromasin,, arnold didnt have high dose test available in 1ml injections,,,arnold didnt have humalog...,,and arnold surely didnt have a mix of prop tren and masteron in one single 1ml injection ,,if he did it would solve lots of his problems.. :D

Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: MikeThaMachine on June 12, 2007, 04:38:35 AM
"The calves are like no other muscle, and every day they seem to have a different mood," he said. "Sometimes I can do calf raises with shoes on and it feels better, then other times the shoes get in the way and I have to do this exercise with bare feet.... It's strange; kind of supernatural.

"A secret I learned is to test the calves' personality or attitude with two or three sets, then I know which way they want to go that particular day. The calves will let you know--just give them a chance to 'talk' to you." He went on to say it's "almost like they have a mind of their own--a brain that the other muscles don't have."


I completely agree with what he said, I also can't just be like "I am goin to train outer calves today" and when I used to train at home I always switched back and forth from bare feet to wearing shoes. I just do what feels good for that day and go to town on them. ;D
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: Pollux on June 12, 2007, 05:02:29 AM
Let's just say that for this particular shot he purposely posed in the water to hide his calves - or lackthereof.


(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/gallery/musclegallery1/m36.jpg)
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: haider on June 12, 2007, 07:07:38 PM
don't forget arnold is one of the world's greatest bullshit artists.

it sounded all romantic in education of a bodybuilder that he started doing 1000lb calf raises and brought his calves up in no time once he came to america but I don't buy it.

he lost to yorton in 1966 and started getting mentored by wag bennett at the same time. no way a guy like wag wouldn't urge him to start training calves harder at that stage instead of waiting another 2 years to do it.




You've been the best poster on this thread, I appreciatte your replies and your patience. Thank you!
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: haider on June 12, 2007, 07:13:54 PM
arnold's calves  ;)
Look at the first pic and notice how fuggin out of proportion his calves look. Not to mention they look bit lumpy on the inner gastroc's. This kind of a transformation for calves (very genetic bodypart) is absolutely ridiculous, bordering on the impossible even- if u consider the fact that it took him 2-3 years to do it. Your calf insertions pretty much determine whether you have good calves or not, which further adds to the mystery of arnold's calves seen here in 77 i believe. Unless he SERIOUSLY neglected his calves earlier in his carrier, I don't believe that he brought them up merely by training them extra hard... if not implants, it COULD be something else, I'm not sure.

 People who bash me are foolish because I'm simply inquiring into the issue, and not really making any definitive assertions. What ultimately follows from this is that pumpster can go fuck himself  ;D
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: ramazon on June 12, 2007, 10:02:16 PM
how the hell could he neglect his calves for so long then bring them up overnight like that after deciding he needed to work them out "extra hard"? LOL! makes you go hmmmmmmmmm  ;)
They were observed to grow dramatically following a trip to Sweden.  The Swedes were one of the first nations to use some very effective body sculpting
techniques.  In every sport, there's more than one game.  Stay keen, Haider.
I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: haider on June 12, 2007, 10:36:39 PM
They were observed to grow dramatically following a trip to Sweden.  The Swedes were one of the first nations to use some very effective body sculpting
techniques.  In every sport, there's more than one game.  Stay keen, Haider.
I appreciate it.

hahahah, thanks for the response ramazon! It'd be awesome if you could expound on this further, and enlighten fellow getbiggers about the "effective body sculpting
techniques" of arnold's time  ;)
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: BEAST 8692 on June 13, 2007, 09:19:21 AM
his calves weren't short by any stretch of the imagination.

think about this.

when arnold started training it was all about chest and arms. everything else was like an afterthought. being massive and strong was everything and being massive meant the big showy bodyparts. no one talked about calves much at all.

when arnold focused on a bodypart, it fucking grew, every time. "oh, i need some legs. i think i'll do some squats." boom, legs.

now, i know it wasn't quite that simple (he was a hard worker in the gym), but the fact is, when a guy's got genetics like his, the midas touch applies. come on, how often do you see a guy with great genetics that just can't one body part to decent proportions?

ironically, the only exception i see here is with calves, but that's usually black guys with high calves. they just don't have enough cells there and that's fine, but it was NOT the case with arnold. take a look at them, they're actually very full to the insertion points.

awesome genetics + hard, consistant priority work + anabolic drugs + site injections = muscular calves.

Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: natural al on June 13, 2007, 09:29:45 AM
Arnold din't get calf implants in the early 70's

I don't think there was such a thing, and if there was it would have been for the rich, not some nobody bodybuilder.

He wasn't ARNOLD IN THE 70'S

if you had implants back in the 70's and 80's you had calves that looked like tony pearsons or big Lou Ferrigno when he made his comeback, no way did arnold have implants.
Title: Re: Did Arnold REALLY have bad genetics for calves?
Post by: dantelis on June 14, 2007, 11:35:11 AM
Reg and Arnold had pretty similar looking calves in the 1970 Mr. Universe.  Looks like Dave Draper could have benefited from some calf work.  His are small compared to the other two.

(http://www.davedraper.com/gallery/data/510/8davelonbacklg.jpg)