Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: The_Leafy_Bug on June 13, 2007, 08:11:22 PM
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Well i have been reading many of daddywaddys threads and im kind of tired of all the nonsense people throw at him about him being smaller. Here is a before and after picture. I know im not shit and i don't need to hear meaningless comments. I just want to prove to you guys that he is telling the truth about many things. The first picture is that last one you guys saw of me when i posted under my gimmick buttsuck. This last one is me on about 800 calories a day doing extreme dieting trying to lean out as much as possible although i wasn't succesful. Fat is like a scab. The more you pick at it the smaller it grows back. Anyway enjoy....
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This is proof of what again?
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buttsuck?? hahahah brutal 150 bw hahaha 18 inch quads
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buttsuck?? hahahah brutal 150 bw hahaha 18 inch quads
yet he would destroy you in a bodybuilding show !!! haha
he may be tiny but his physique looks like Frank Zane's
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Something doesn't look right about that pic Leafy Buttsuck.
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Well, your hair sure grew....
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I pity you I really do :-\
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nice skirt :D
the bangs are not working nor is
the hair color in the first picture
in the 2nd the hair is better without the bangs and the
darker color looks better on you
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honnestly tho, you should up your calories to 3000-3500 a day for a couple of weeks and stop that adonis non-sense
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Well, your hair sure grew....
Wait.
Which one's supposed to be the before picture?
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I dont want to put on any fat so i keep it at about 2k now.... I train very hard old school style. 52+ sets a work out and i do cardio but i really shouldn't.
don't become a fat fuck but don't be so obsessed with putting fat on
if you keep eating like you are, you won't gain a pound of muscle this year :-\
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listen to stavios.
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Looking like a champ as always my friend. The majority of these people are too stupid to recognize truth and evidence. As always, keep up the great work.
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yeah listen to steve
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Also, I REALLY DON'T want to be a dick, but it looks like your waist was photoshopped in those pictures
but I am not photoshop expert, just that the picture looks deformed in your obliques area
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Your approach is ok if you want to maintain minimal muscle and keep your cuts... but I doubt you'd be able to move any sort of decent weight in the gym with the amount of calories you're eating...And if you tried you'd probably take ages to recover from the workout.
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Hahah thx for the compliment i guess. I've gotten my waist down as small as 24 inches (on vacuum of course). When you can do that and twist it it will look even smaller then that. I don't even have photoshop anymore.
your waist does look fucking small
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your waist does look fucking small
You are somewhat jealous of a small waist since yours is large. I picked that up last year.
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the hair in the first is bad photoshop
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Something doesn't look right about that pic Leafy Buttsuck.
indeed
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You are somewhat jealous of a small waist since yours is large. I picked that up last year.
no I am not
and my waist is tiny, my hip bones are large tho :)
and I wasn't taking about the size of his waist but more about the little deformed bump near his obliques but if he says it isn't photoshoped I believe him
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no I am not
and my waist is tiny, my hip bones are large tho :)
and I wasn't taking about the size of his waist but more about the little deformed bump near his obliques but if he says it isn't photoshoped I believe him
That's his ribcage. Look closer!
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You are correct my friend but you must realize weight is not important (to an extent). Frequency and minimal rest is what is important. Try doing a workout of arms that equals 32 sets with no rest embetween sets. You will not only get a monster pump but will be drenched in sweat. They key is to use form and concentrate on contraction alot like Milos's workouts.
Yeah, your approach is good if you're content with not being big (isn't everyone on GetBig meant to either (1) want to be big; or, (2) be big). The high set/rep+minimal rest approach is good for people like you.
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i apologize for picking on your pics you look ok...but i dont know why a man would want a 24 waist
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I have nothing to hide... here is another one of a back relaxed. I was 150 pounds in these pictures. You cut on 800 calories and you will see your waist drop too...
Thats a good shot, you look very good there,
I think you need to take your front shots from closer maybe.
Back is looking very good there, props.
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no I am not
and my waist is tiny, my hip bones are large tho :)
and I wasn't taking about the size of his waist but more about the little deformed bump near his obliques but if he says it isn't photoshoped I believe him
I can assure you they are NOT photshopped.
He owns just about everyone with his structure.
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When a picture is too large for the page it gets shrunk and it looks a little jagged. That's why his obliques look strange in the picture. Right click on it and click view image and you'll see.
Good shape and balance. Small obliques make your waist look really small.
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Looking like a champ as always my friend. The majority of these people are too stupid to recognize truth and evidence. As always, keep up the great work.
A champion of what ? The one that is too stupid is you my faggoty friend... Butthole is very lean ..But...That's it.... He was already lean ... So...what's the difference ? Where's the progress...If he would have gained 7 to 8 pds..While staying lean ....That would have been progress...!
Didn't you say..That you were going to beef up.. while staying under a certain percentage of bodyfat?
Just because ..People don't believe the smelly shit that you spew out of that asshole you call a mouth ..Doesn't mean they are stupid..
You've been caught in so many lies and contradictions...I wouldn't believe you if you had the proof in your hands while in front of me..
You're a fucking fag..That's all I see when I look at your posts and pics..As well as BASTurd,Butthole ans Squab..You're all a bunch of cocksuckers..
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I can assure you they are NOT photshopped.
He owns just about everyone with his structure.
absolutly, his structure is awesome
he remembers me of a competitor here in montreal who doesn't even look like he trains when clothed but onstage well.... lets just say he won an OVERALL as a bantamweight :o
(http://www.vinkomorf.com/archives/2007/fevrier/images/wq2006.jpg)
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A champion of what ? The one that is too stupid is you my faggoty friend... Butthole is very lean ..But...That's it.... He was already lean ... So...what's the difference ? Where's the progress...If he would have gained 7 to 8 pds..While staying lean ....That would have been progress...!
Didn't you say..That you were going to beef up.. while staying under a certain percentage of bodyfat?
Just because ..People don't believe the smelly shit that you spew out of that asshole you call a mouth ..Doesn't mean they are stupid..
You've been caught in so many lies and contradictions...I wouldn't believe you if you had the proof in your hands while in front of me..
You're a fucking fag..That's all I see when I look at your posts and pics..As well as BASTurd,Butthole ans Squab..You're all a bunch of cocksuckers..
hahahahaha calm down tiger, it aint that serious.
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you weigh 150#s and you are trying to "lean" out :-\
get your skrawny ass some weight gainer 4000
EVERYONE is ripped at 150#s
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Nobody would even know you picked up a weight if you are clothed.
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hahahahaha calm down tiger, it aint that serious.
Whatever Squab.
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A champion of what ? The one that is too stupid is you my faggoty friend... Butthole is very lean ..But...That's it.... He was already lean ... So...what's the difference ? Where's the progress...If he would have gained 7 to 8 pds..While staying lean ....That would have been progress...!
Didn't you say..That you were going to beef up.. while staying under a certain percentage of bodyfat?
Just because ..People don't believe the smelly shit that you spew out of that asshole you call a mouth ..Doesn't mean they are stupid..
You've been caught in so many lies and contradictions...I wouldn't believe you if you had the proof in your hands while in front of me..
You're a fucking fag..That's all I see when I look at your posts and pics..As well as BASTurd,Butthole ans Squab..You're all a bunch of cocksuckers..
The funny thing is, we all OWN you. You are still the embarrassment that your mother always thought you were.
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Here is another intresting picture. I tried a carb up to see if it exists. One picture is carbed up and the other is not. I followed layne nortons precise intructions. You guys tell me which picture is carbed up. Yet another bodybuilding myth proven false.
there is nothing to carb up
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Nobody would even know you picked up a weight if you are clothed.
One would have to suffer from a great mental imbalance and insecurity if they constantly felt that they had to "look like they lifted weights" at all times, including being clothed.
Go get your dumbass a tattoo, mohawk and a motorcycle or a pickup. That way, you can convince yourself that you are a "man". ZachG aka Mister Magoo can give you tips on this. Hope this helps.
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The funny thing is, we all OWN you. You are still the embarrassment that your mother always thought you were.
DUDe ! You can never own me ...I own you every comment I make about you and you fagcapades ..
All fags should be taken outback and shot..!
You're disgusting...Sucking cock..Getting fucked in the ass...You filthy piece of shit ..
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It's clear he can gain muscle while staying lean, and he has.
800 calories is extreme. you'd probably be good at 1500 to diet, since you're doing cardio that's low enough.
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I was trying to get to 3% bf at 145 pounds but only got down to 149 and failed miserably. Why would i want to gain fat? Fat is completly useless and hinders gains.
You're too obsessed with losing weight. 3% bodyfat is for people on steroids/clen/diuretics... not naturals.. you'll just get anorexic
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I told you idiots that there is NO SUCH THING AS A CARBUP and The Great LEafy Bug has proven it.
If you think logically and scientifically, you will realize this. Until you do that, prepare to remain stupid and ignorant. Carb-up, what a waste.
Same thing goes for "re-feeding" days and carb-cycling. 2 Ignorant and loseristic approaches.
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absolutly, his structure is awesome
he remembers me of a competitor here in montreal who doesn't even look like he trains when clothed but onstage well.... lets just say he won an OVERALL as a bantamweight :o
(http://www.vinkomorf.com/archives/2007/fevrier/images/wq2006.jpg)
well leafy better dye his hair orange
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note that none of the guys criticizing him have posted pictures ever.
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You're too obsessed with losing weight. 3% bodyfat is for people on steroids/clen/diuretics... not naturals.. you'll just get anorexic
The top Naturals exhibit 3-4 percent.
Get a clue, because you sure do not have one as evidenced by all your responses in this very thread.
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The top Naturals exhibit 3-4 percent.
Get a clue, because you sure do not have one as evidenced by all your responses in this very thread.
shut up you dipshit. the top naturals aren't natural.
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One would have to suffer from a great mental imbalance and insecurity if they constantly felt that they had to "look like they lifted weights" at all times, including being clothed.
Go get your dumbass a tattoo, mohawk and a motorcycle or a pickup. That way, you can convince yourself that you are a "man". ZachG aka Mister Magoo can give you tips on this. Hope this helps.
Maybe I should remind you, this is a bodybuilding site.
Maybe you should relocate to a fitness forum hahahahahahah
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great pics
what is your height?
I agree that muscle goes on as an adaptation to stress, it is possible to lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously on very low calories. If the body is pressured properly it will use what little nutrition it has to build muscle.
Still though you are not going to gain much muscle any way you slice it without drugs.
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note that none of the guys criticizing him have posted pictures ever.
I did
please also take note that my criticisms are purely objective
he looks good but he did not gain an once of muscle between the 2 shots
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note that none of the guys criticizing him have posted pictures ever.
here
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I told you idiots that there is NO SUCH THING AS A CARBUP and The Great LEafy Bug has proven it.
If you think logically and scientifically, you will realize this. Until you do that, prepare to remain stupid and ignorant. Carb-up, what a waste.
Same thing goes for "re-feeding" days and carb-cycling. 2 Ignorant and loseristic approaches.
Hey FAG.. Jump on stage..Put the "google methods " to work... See if what you've googled ..is better than the old methods..
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I did
please also take note that my criticisms are purely objective
he looks good but he did not gain an once of muscle between the 2 shots
I meant negative criticism. Your posts show that you have a good understanding of natural bodybuilding.
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your bodyfat's low enough, you have to be hungry
E
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I did
please also take note that my criticisms are purely objective
he looks good but he did not gain an once of muscle between the 2 shots
i agree with this
losing fat and drying out will make you look bigger (unless you are a bloat builder like Matt C, in which case you will have to cross a threshold before further fat loss makes you look bigger).
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5'11
how has your energy level been
I find that fasting, while it can make me cranky, tends to actually up my energy. the real problem is getting to sleep when hungry.
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I meant negative criticism. Your posts show that you have a good understanding of natural bodybuilding.
You fags created quite the sisterhood huh?
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Post the BULKING BEFORE SHOTS!
They need it drilled into them!
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Post the BULKING BEFORE SHOTS!
They need it drilled into them!
Post the tranny pics... You need cock drilled into you..
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Deadlift..... another useless gym excercise that i no longer do.
I would LOVE to hear the logic on this one.
Also....its not 'embetween'.....try IN BETWEEN
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I was actually loaded with energy at about 1200 but when i dropped to 800 on the 3rd day it got to the point where i could hardly make a contraction. The work outs were pathetic but when i was at 1200 i was cranking out some insane work. Very impressive for such a low amount. I find with high calories im a bit sluggish and tired.
Yea when your calories are too low you hold too little glycogen and you stay dehydrated and it's difficult to train (weak and cramping). You should go back to 1200 at least.
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I would LOVE to hear the logic on this one.
Also....its not 'embetween'.....try IN BETWEEN
It probably makes his waist bigger than 24 inches. heh
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Here is another intresting picture. I tried a carb up to see if it exists. One picture is carbed up and the other is not. I followed layne nortons precise intructions. You guys tell me which picture is carbed up. Yet another bodybuilding myth proven false.
HA HA.....lets put it this way....the whole carb up thing has a little more merit when you are leaner. Try getting yourself down a few more percentage points. Just because YOU dont show anything doesnt prove anything.
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what's the difference in your measurements?
E
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That was a week ago hahaha. Im on 2k right now. Im practicing for a new posing routine and i want to hit alot of kneiling shots. This was taken today but you can see ive gained a little since the other pictures.
nice pic!
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That was a week ago hahaha. Im on 2k right now. Im practicing for a new posing routine and i want to hit alot of kneiling shots. This was taken today but you can see ive gained a little since the other pictures.
Buttsuck...What's your point..?.Why are you so obsessed with being so skinny..?What are you trying to prove? If you eat less you'll lose weight? That's already been proven.!. Stop listening to these fags...I'm sure you'll still pull the "boys" if you're beefed up..
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kneeling shot-no comment
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look at the difference of his face in the bulking picture.
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look at the difference of his face in the bulking picture.
DUDE! The leaner you've gotten ...The uglier you've gotten... He's leaner..So his face got leaner.!?..Big fucking deal!!
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Arms went from 19 to 16, quads from 27 to 22, calves from 17 to 15. Waist from 40 to 24. Chest from 50 to 46. Not an ounce of muscle was lost.
HAHAHA, if your arms were 19" in that bulked up picture then mine are 22" now. whatever. keep dreaming those are NOT 19" arms
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..
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HAHAHA, if your arms were 19" in that bulked up picture then mine are 22" now. whatever. keep dreaming those are NOT 19" arms
who cares how much they measure.
how they look and how they function is what counts.
why do you persist in trying to build fat sausage limbs, why is playing around with a tape measure so important that you focus on it to the exclusion of all else?
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Arms went from 19 to 16, quads from 27 to 22, calves from 17 to 15. Waist from 40 to 24. Chest from 50 to 46. Not an ounce of muscle was lost.
calling all bullshit, calling all bullshit, come in bullshit................ oh it's here ::)
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who cares how much they measure.
how they look and how they function is what counts.
why do you persist in trying to build fat sausage limbs, why is playing around with a tape measure so important that you focus on it to the exclusion of all else?
I've never measured mine. I was just pointing out what was obvious in the photo.. they are not 19". And they are definately smaller than mine.. and I'd never go around saying I have 19" arms because it would be bullshit
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HA HA.....lets put it this way....the whole carb up thing has a little more merit when you are leaner. Try getting yourself down a few more percentage points. Just because YOU dont show anything doesnt prove anything.
Please explain how a "Carb-Up" works and please show me CONCRETE EVIDENCE of one working or in progress.
I bet you can`t.
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what did you weigh in the 'bulked' up picture?
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Read the title of the thread. That is the point i am proving. You don't need to be fat to get big.
Buttsuck.. I'm not saying you look bad... But...You're not big...
But...... you were bigger when you were fat..
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Buttsuck.. I'm not saying you look bad... But...You're not big...
But...... you were bigger when you were fat..
Fat people are ridiculed and are unhealthy. Why would anyone want to be fat, just to look bigger? That's ridiculous. You must be a fat douche bag in denial who everyone ridicules
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I am going to bed but will be up tommorow at 7. Feel free to leave questions and i will try to answer and explain more of what im doing. There is good information in this thread. I was skeptical about what adonis was telling me at first too but i tested what he said and it worked. It made sense too. It is common knowledge.
Night honey..Talk to you later .
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217
you weighed 217 in that "bulked up" pic?
You were just a fat ass, no wonder you're so small when you diet down, you have no muscle whatsoever. You should put on 20-25 pounds and actually lift some real weights (not Adonis' nutsack). At 5'11" tall and 217 you should be ripped, but in that pic you are all flabby and not one of those measurements is even close to true.
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Please explain how a "Carb-Up" works and please show me CONCRETE EVIDENCE of one working or in progress.
I bet you can`t.
Show you concrete evidence adam? Show me it doesnt work with bodybuilders! They dont use it for performance. They use it for physiologic effects. I know exactly the effect it had on me for my show in 2005, as well as my show last year. Just because you do not 'believe' in it adam...doesnt mean something cant work. You have your belief that muscle cant be lost. Do a search on exercise induced proteolysis once. You have your theories....other people have theirs. Again, bottom line is that you have NEVER gotten to the point of depleting your body down then introducing some foods to fill you out and pull sub-q water out. There is no point in arguing with you because you will NEVER get to that point. So, have your debate here and do what you always do and try and cram your theories and opinions down peoples throats. I have told you before that if you would choose another route, you would have a much more positive reaction.
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Buttsuck ,you have a great structure,need few more years and little bit more size, you could do very well in natural bodybuilding , carbing up is not a myth , you have to be shredded and carb depleted to notice it , in those pictures you are just lean . :)
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217 my ass hahahahahahha
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Fat people are ridiculed and are unhealthy. Why would anyone want to be fat, just to look bigger? That's ridiculous. You must be a fat douche bag in denial who everyone ridicules
You're right about that(damn it) ...But...Butthole wasn't to that point...He was pretty muscular..Not obese .. Squabfather would be in the unhealthy ,ridiculed category... But...You never say anything to him..
I believe what goes for one ..goes for all....
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DUDE! The leaner you've gotten ...The uglier you've gotten... He's leaner..So his face got leaner.!?..Big fucking deal!!
Whatever...This kid would be a god at the beach. Good job, by the way. I do question your stats a bit, however. You said you weigh 150 lbs but have a 46 inch chest? Also, if you had a 46 inch chest and 24 inch waist, you would look absolutely ridiculous from the side. You look good either way, but I'm doubting the measurements.
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Show you concrete evidence adam? Show me it doesnt work with bodybuilders! They dont use it for performance. They use it for physiologic effects. I know exactly the effect it had on me for my show in 2005, as well as my show last year. Just because you do not 'believe' in it adam...doesnt mean something cant work. You have your belief that muscle cant be lost. Do a search on exercise induced proteolysis once. You have your theories....other people have theirs. Again, bottom line is that you have NEVER gotten to the point of depleting your body down then introducing some foods to fill you out and pull sub-q water out. There is no point in arguing with you because you will NEVER get to that point. So, have your debate here and do what you always do and try and cram your theories and opinions down peoples throats. I have told you before that if you would choose another route, you would have a much more positive reaction.
The Onus is on you my friend. You are the one claiming it works. Prove it. If it works, this should be easy to do.
If it is common practice surely there is evidence and an explanation behind it. Guess what, There is none.
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Fat people are ridiculed and are unhealthy. Why would anyone want to be fat, just to look bigger? That's ridiculous. You must be a fat douche bag in denial who everyone ridicules
you've obviously never heard of bulking and cutting. For an average natural to put on 40 pounds of muscle from a base bodyweight they need to be on a high calorie diet. You'll get fat. Doing small weights with a million sets like this guy wont help you put on 40 pounds of muscle year or two.
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Arms went from 19 to 16, quads from 27 to 22, calves from 17 to 15. Waist from 40 to 24. Chest from 50 to 46. Not an ounce of muscle was lost.
Even though your measurments went down you look a lot better in the leaner pics, and to be honest you even look bigger - being that much leaner creates the illusion of being bigger. Keep it up.
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Whatever...This kid would be a god at the beach. Good job, by the way. I do question your stats a bit, however. You said you weigh 150 lbs but have a 46 inch chest? Also, if you had a 46 inch chest and 24 inch waist, you would look absolutely ridiculous from the side. You look good either way, but I'm doubting the measurements.
This kid would go absolutely unnoticed at the beach, he's just a skinny little skater kid. Hundreds of thousands of them here, like roaches you can't get rid of the little emo skater, girl pants wearing, hair over one eye, thinking they are fat @150#s pussies.
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You're right about that(damn it) ...But...Butthole wasn't to that point...He was pretty muscular..Not obese .. Squabfather would be in the unhealthy ,ridiculed category... But...You never say anything to him..
I believe what goes for one ..goes for all....
He's dieting, he's trying to get leaner. Plus he posted a picture.
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This kid would go absolutely unnoticed at the beach, he's just a skinny little skater kid. Hundreds of thousands of them here, like roaches you can't get rid of the little emo skater, girl pants wearing, hair over one eye, thinking they are fat @150#s pussies.
I think you're right. my little brother looks more cut and muscular than he does.. and he's never touched a weight in his life.
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He's dieting, he's trying to get leaner. Plus he posted a picture.
I'll leave you alone tonight..You've been a gentleman...
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you've obviously never heard of bulking and cutting. For an average natural to put on 40 pounds of muscle from a base bodyweight they need to be on a high calorie diet. You'll get fat. Doing small weights with a million sets like this guy wont help you put on 40 pounds of muscle year or two.
40lbs of muscle in year or two ??? ::)
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40lbs of muscle in year or two ??? ::)
If you do compound exercises and work balls to the wall it's definately possible.
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If you do compound exercises and work balls to the wall it's definately possible.
With some help..
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If you do compound exercises and work balls to the wall it's definately possible.
Ok, I will do that. In 5 years I should have 200lbs more muscle. Thanks for the tip.
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If you do compound exercises and work balls to the wall it's definately possible.
Natural??
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This kid would go absolutely unnoticed at the beach, he's just a skinny little skater kid. Hundreds of thousands of them here, like roaches you can't get rid of the little emo skater, girl pants wearing, hair over one eye, thinking they are fat @150#s pussies.
Well, I was trying to be nice, but his measurements obviously cannot be real. You cannot be 5' 11'' with a 46 inch chest and 16 inch arms and weigh 150 lbs. At the same time, however, I think you vastly overestimate the number of men with good physiques. Hell, this kid looks better than 99.9% of the people who work out at your average 24 hr fitness. The fact is, the vast majority of American men look like absolute shit, and most of the men you see at gyms don't even look like they work out. In all seriousness, I cannot think of one guy at my gym as ripped as this kid. Most men are not muscular and do not have low bf%s...except for GetBig posters. ::)
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Get some hormones kid :P
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Natural??
Yeah for sure.. if you start at a low weight..
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Well, I was trying to be nice, but his measurements obviously cannot be real. You cannot be 5' 11'' with a 46 inch chest and 16 inch arms and weigh 150 lbs. At the same time, however, I think you vastly overestimate the number of men with good physiques. Hell, this kid looks better than 99.9% of the people who work out at your average 24 hr fitness. The fact is, the vast majority of American men look like absolute shit, and most of the men you see at gyms don't even look like they work out. In all seriousness, I cannot think of one guy at my gym as ripped as this kid. Most men are not muscular and do not have low bf%s...except for GetBig posters. ::)
In SoCal, at the beaches, this guy is a dime a dozen. Everywhere at the beach is a 150# ripped pipsqueak. The real rare sight is the 250# ripped guy.
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Ok, I will do that. In 5 years I should have 200lbs more muscle. Thanks for the tip.
yeah, whatever... you wont gain above your genetic limit, with the right training and good genetics it is definitely possible to add 40 pounds onto an untrained guy in the first two years of training.
Well, I was trying to be nice, but his measurements obviously cannot be real. You cannot be 5' 11'' with a 46 inch chest and 16 inch arms and weigh 150 lbs. At the same time, however, I think you vastly overestimate the number of men with good physiques. Hell, this kid looks better than 99.9% of the people who work out at your average 24 hr fitness. The fact is, the vast majority of American men look like absolute shit, and most of the men you see at gyms don't even look like they work out. In all seriousness, I cannot think of one guy at my gym as ripped as this kid. Most men are not muscular and do not have low bf%s...except for GetBig posters. ::)
he definitely does have a good physique.
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In SoCal, at the beaches, this guy is a dime a dozen. Everywhere at the beach is a 150# ripped pipsqueak. The real rare sight is the 250# ripped guy.
I live in on the beach in SoCal, and I can tell you that this kind of physique is not a "dime a dozen." I'm not saying this kid is something special, but I really think it is preposterous to say that all skinny guys look like this kid or that this kind of physique is commonplace. The kid actually has something of a back, which isn't true for a lot of the ripped kids you see at the beach. Like I said, I'm not saying this kid is the next Dorian Yates, but give him a little bit of credit--he actually does look like he works out.
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he actually does look like he works out.
we don't know if "chaos" does though.
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I live in on the beach in SoCal, and I can tell you that this kind of physique is not a "dime a dozen." I'm not saying this kid is something special, but I really think it is preposterous to say that all skinny guys look like this kid or that this kind of physique is commonplace. The kid actually has something of a back, which isn't true for a lot of the ripped kids you see at the beach. Like I said, I'm not saying this kid is the next Dorian Yates, but give him a little bit of credit--he actually does look like he works out.
How many of those kids are pumped up and posing when they are out on the beach. And don't forget the camera will add some lbs to your body and he seems to have found some good lighting there since he is constantly taking his picture from a hallway into a room.
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How many of those kids are pumped up and posing when they are out on the beach. And don't forget the camera will add some lbs to your body and he seems to have found some good lighting there since he is constantly taking his picture from a hallway into a room.
Hmmmmmmmmm...someone gets it. This kid is pumped up and using a light to cast shadows, put him outside in the sun without posing and he would look like " a dime a dozen" ;)
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Bro get your stuff together. 500mg Test E with some Nolvadex 10mg ED for at least 10 weeks bro. No disrespect just want you to achieve your goal. Good luck bro
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You look good bro, but i am a bit skeptical about those measurements. If it is true that you have a 24inch waist and a 46inch chest, you would have the best v taper around. Also, and this may just be me, but losing 2 inches off your calves seems a lot. I mean even people with a fairly high bodyfat who still train (including calves) shouldn't have too much fat on their calves. Still good work and don't get too put down by all the dickheads on getbig.
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Still good work and don't get too put down by all the dickheads on getbig.
You should have been here when he was known as Buttsuck. He was the biggest little prick on the boards.
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This thread should be renamed "Proof you can be delusional in a calorie defecit"!!
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Seriously guys i wanna know, would losing 2 inches off your calves while cutting be considered excessive if your bodyfat was not redicously high. Like even if you were at say near 20%, would you lose 2 inches?
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I will never understand why naturals go for the ripped look, they all look so fragile and skinny. adonis daddywaddy this guy, grashopping mania, why having a bit of fat is that much of a problem?
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I will never understand why naturals go for the ripped look, they all look so fragile and skinny. adonis daddywaddy this guy, grashopping mania, why having a bit of fat is that much of a problem?
I thought you liked adonis, "mars"??? Or are they not amused by your Saddam role-playing bullshit?
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JFC dude! Eat some food. You are a runt. A pasty pale little runt. :(
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Both daddywaddy and adonis looked great before starting with their muscle burning experiments.
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he may be tiny but his physique looks like Frank Zane's before he took up swimming.
Fixed.
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I can't wait for the Transformers to come out. It looks awesome!
You think so?
Looks corny to me.....
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The guys not huge, but I think he looks pretty good. I'm not sure I agree with an 800 calorie diet, but better that than be some lardass who's always bulking and never competes.
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I dont want to put on any fat so i keep it at about 2k now.... I train very hard old school style. 52+ sets a work out and i do cardio but i really shouldn't.
i eat only 1,300 calories per day average and do 7 hours cardio per week. its tiring but u can still get some growth, upping the calories to maintenance or 100 calories above maintenace would get more muscle. u dont need to eat copious amounts to gain muscle maximum is 300-500 above maintenance, i think i would only ever go 100-300 above maintenance and that would only be briefly, low calories is the best way to go. (of course genetics affect how well u do on ANY diet)
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I dunno...Steven Spielberg...looks like they mighta gotten it right -- maybe the actors are a little amature tho...
crossing my fingers at least. Loved the cartoon when I was a kid.
Me too, man. Grew up on the Transformers and GI Joe.
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you say you're 217 in the first pic and 150 in the second
LMAO no way in hell that you are 67 lbs heavier in the first picture
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=154774.0;attach=173051;image)
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this kid does look like frank zane, tiny structure but perfect proportions
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Well i have been reading many of daddywaddys threads and im kind of tired of all the nonsense people throw at him about him being smaller. Here is a before and after picture. I know im not shit and i don't need to hear meaningless comments. I just want to prove to you guys that he is telling the truth about many things. The first picture is that last one you guys saw of me when i posted under my gimmick buttsuck. This last one is me on about 800 calories a day doing extreme dieting trying to lean out as much as possible although i wasn't succesful. Fat is like a scab. The more you pick at it the smaller it grows back. Anyway enjoy....
You have nice shape and are in very good condition.
Beyond that, there is no point to consuming 800 calories per day. You could achieve the same results over a little more time with more calories.
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Nice physique regardless of what he weighs or lifts!
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leafy bug,
wats ur opinion on my approach in previous post. and also on me eating 1,300 calories per day at 218 pounds and doing 7-12 hours cardio per week? there is alot of fat to lose around the waist for me.
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leafy, i want to get low bodyfat like you
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One would have to suffer from a great mental imbalance and insecurity if they constantly felt that they had to "look like they lifted weights" at all times, including being clothed.
Go get your dumbass a tattoo, mohawk and a motorcycle or a pickup. That way, you can convince yourself that you are a "man". ZachG aka Mister Magoo can give you tips on this. Hope this helps.
funny coming from a guy who posts pics of virtually everything he does, makes constant claimes that aren't true like working at nasa and such yet sells purses on e-bay.
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You can put on no more then about 2 pounds of muscle a year unless of course you use drugs and if i were too then i wouldn't matter what my calories were at.
Keep telling yourself that haha.
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Well i have been reading many of daddywaddys threads and im kind of tired of all the nonsense people throw at him about him being smaller. Here is a before and after picture. I know im not shit and i don't need to hear meaningless comments. I just want to prove to you guys that he is telling the truth about many things. The first picture is that last one you guys saw of me when i posted under my gimmick buttsuck. This last one is me on about 800 calories a day doing extreme dieting trying to lean out as much as possible although i wasn't succesful. Fat is like a scab. The more you pick at it the smaller it grows back. Anyway enjoy....
When you posted under your gimmick Buttsuck, you subscribed to many of Abeles' theories.
He believes in that you can eat whatever you want, as long as you are in a caloric deficit.
He even told whateva that a beer only diet would be just fine.
I don't know how much of this you actually believe in, since it was a gimmick account, but I will definitely give you credit for having great symmetry, very Zane-esque.
Whether you're cutting or gaining muscle, it's common sense to eat nutritious, ie eating a balanced diet.
Lots of veggies, whole-grain carbs, fruits, avoid refined products, fat fish, oils, et al.
I don't see anyone on this site claiming you should pig out or eating enormous amounts of protein. Not even a guy like Chris Mason, who is in the business of selling protein powder. Frankly, I don't see the 300 gram protein recommendations anymore.
FWIW, if you get 15% protein in your diet per day, that's still a high protein diet.
-Hedge
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I think it is an excellent approach. Just remember, all that matters is your calories are low and in time you will get there but it takes time. I dieted for 5 months before i lost all that fat and had to hold it another 4 to get where i am today.
thank you leafy bug,
i dieted 5 months to lose 62 pounds. and the best results were simply very low calories and u get used to it and dont even feel like eating. i think in another four months i will reach my goal and lose another 20 pounds or even more.
glad to see someone using the same approach.
congrats on the results...it makes me more motivated.
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Thanks. The important thing is to stick with it. I eventually got to the point where i dropped cardio. Also you can try daddywaddy type methods although i do find them stessful on the body. I remember i was eating cheese cake and oreos everyday. You just have to make sure you burn what you eat.
thank you. yes i lose weight even without cardio. in regards to food i find the best is oatmeal, grilled flake fish, and sometimes spinach salad with moderate to high calorie dressing cos u need a nice taste sometimes.
but mainly i eat oatmeal for carbs and fish for protien i got sick of chicken.
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leafy bug is doing the right thing..
the diet part is correct low calories to lose...
but the building part he should on a few days a week spend the most time in the gym with alot more more calories... for example ill consume 4-5000 and not lose a pound or gain a pound if im pumping over 2 hours a day. this is my caloric limit. and you need calories to lift a crazy long time to keep your muscles stimulated to hold all the fat you consume.
then on certain days dont do as much but get a decent workout in but dont eat shit just eat fiber and water ect and you lose fast do that for a day or 2 then go back to lifting alot and eating at your limit. you have to find your limit on a maximum workout day and test the next morning to see if your weight is the same then you know for sure your limit
so ...
4-5000 is my limit at 225 pounds at 2-3 hours or working out /cardio
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That max 2pound muscle/year aint true. Not atlest the first year of training.
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leafy bug is doing the right thing..
the diet part is correct low calories to lose...
No shit Sherlock.
In other news, Columbus discovers America! ::)
-Hedge
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Of course. The first year you can gain about 10 or so.
in the last 2 years ive gained 52pounds and still had good abs until a while ago, =)
but now im bulked after several months on 4500kcal lol =)
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and where is the research that shows max 2 pounds a year?
because everyone is different and responds different to Different things types of training and so on,
How could they do the study? :p
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That is too many calories. Most of that is fat gain. I gained 70 pounds in my first year of training and you saw how much of it turned out to be muscle. You are no different then me.
yeah But I kept my abs you didn´t ,
At 3800kcal I loose weight with no cardio sadly.. I hate eating also lol.
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after the first 20 pounds it was no sign of fat at all though :)
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And what do you notice now? I still don't have abs. It is due to lack of development. Just because you have abs doesn't mean you have more muscle. People store fat differently. Cut all the way and you will see. If you are natural you will fall in the range of 150-160ish depending on how tall you are and how dense your bones are.
Yeah I understand but, I took the abs thing as a sign of still not beeing all that fat,
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And do you guys have the study on 2pounds muscle a year?
Cause adonis is really into everyone proving different stuff with evidence,
And I cant imagine how that study is done.
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You should never lose track of your abs in the "offseason" (i hate using that word). Ask big ach. He bulked up to 240 only to return back down to a smoother form of his previous weight. The fat cells must be starved off otherwise they multiply and you will look smooth and soft when you cut back down.
maby he didn´t eat enough protein or didn´t rain hard enough, or sucked at dieting,
How much was he at before the bulk?
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great pics
what is your height?
I agree that muscle goes on as an adaptation to stress, it is possible to lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously on very low calories. If the body is pressured properly it will use what little nutrition it has to build muscle.
Still though you can gain muscle without drugs.
Fixed.
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You should do on of those test in a water tank and shit, to see the exact how much muscle you have when bulked and then another one after the diet, cause im shure you lost muscle to, =)
my grammer sucks so u know. and spelling
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It is an estimate. You aren't going make any huge changes unless you have drugs. A study would be hard to conduct since everyone is different and every one has different natural test levels running through their body. There are a few rules to remember. If you are under 6 feet tall you will not be over 200 pounds at 3% body fat naturally. That is nonsense. I'll let him defend himself but the amount of protien isn't a factor. You can get fat off of eating protien. All that matters is calories and getting the RDI. The same thing happened to me when i first cut down. I was soft and i was getting 200+. Now i get about 100 or so grams depending on how i feel.
how can such a statement be said?
"6 feet tall you will not be over 200 pounds at 3% body fat naturally"
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Naturally gained muscle is near impossible to lose.
but you should do it.
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Find one natural bodybuilder under 6 feet thats over 200 pounds at 3%.
my question was How do you know for sure that that´s Not possible?
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Because it has never been done.
well 3% sure is low, But some black person with amazing genes could probly come close :D
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leafy bug is an inspiration and idol for the natural lifters trying to get ripped and have muscle too 8)
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No.... we are all human. Skin color can give the appearance of being leaner then one actually is.
I think they have better genes.
Anyway, how can you Prove that under 6feet in 200pounds is Not possible?
im of to the gym now though,
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The first picture is that last one you guys saw of me when i posted under my gimmick buttsuck
Looking good, but wouldn't this one be the gimmick?
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The Onus is on you my friend. You are the one claiming it works. Prove it. If it works, this should be easy to do.
If it is common practice surely there is evidence and an explanation behind it. Guess what, There is none.
Adam.....the onus is NOT on me. You see, I have personal experience with it. I have done it to myself, and have done it on a few people I helped get ready for a show. In fact, the guy on Mayhem Manchild was one of the people i helped get ready for a show. Ask him for his opinion. When you take a "depleted" body and mess with sodium, water, carbs, and fat there is cosmetic effect that happens. Will there be research? Hell no. Just something people have found to have happen. There is cell physiology behind things. Like, when you take in carbs, fats with no water....where do you think the body gets the water to help with digestion? You do realize how important water is in the digestive process right?
So, before you start with me on the onus of things. You have made HUGE claims on here. People have called you out on shit, and yet YOU havent delivered. The onus has been on you for so many things that you havent backed up. So, before you come at me you should probably think about that. Again, I think you have some unique ideas and theories....but they are NOT the be-all, end-all to things. You have never gotten to the point of getting on stage and having to make sure your body has the right appearance. Try it Adam, you might see that its not as "easy" as you claim.
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Good thread.
It is true that people become obsessed with increasing the number on the scale.
Fat gain is "sneaky" It occurs in and around muscles making them look bigger than they really are.
Insulin response from overeating causes water retention which makes you feel bigger and stronger.
BUT fly,
If you gained muscle between those first pics you've shown, it sure isn't obvious. Not hating; you look awesome. But I am hard pressed to find a single improvement from the first pic to the second. Great transformation overall, btw.
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No.... we are all human. Skin color can give the appearance of being leaner then one actually is.
Skin color is part of it.
I also think that there are a lot of black guys who are very lean (this is probably partially because they don't go on ridiculous BBing diets like us so they tend to consume less calories) with a lot of upper body muscle and very small legs, especially calves. All of these factors together make them look a lot heavier than they actually are.
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Deadlift..... another useless gym excercise that i no longer do.
please elaborate on your training theories.
thanks
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Of course there is no be-all end-all. The point is you don't have to suffer through prep and that we are trying to convince people many of these myths are not true. I will be more then happy to try the carb up again in the future. That was a 12 pound difference and there was no visible change in the pictures.
As I have said, and many others as well, step on stage. Compare yourself to others. See how your "non suffering" prep does for you. You saw no change because you werent not lean enough. The carb-up is PURELY cosmetic. Also, there are numerous ways to do it. Reasearch shitloading for example.
You say you see striations when you get a pump. If you were lean enough, the striations should show WITHOUT a pump. See any in your legs? How about the vascularity in the lower abs? Can you see the division in the gastrocs yet? Pinch your kidney area? How thick is the skin? That will tell you if you are lean enough. How did you guage this 2% body-fat loss you claim?
Pretty much gonna wash my hands of this thread. Again, until you go through the whole process, and not turn this into a "I look lean enough to pose in mens health" kind of thing, you really dont know what can happen. The same goes for Adam.
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bug, you look pretty good and, you're right, better than bulked.
something bugs me though (pardon pun), you have not got a 46inch chest in the 150lb pics, no fucking way and sure as hell not on 24 inch waist. 22 inch differential? sorry bud but that's a damn lie.
you're arms are between 14 and 15 and i'd put money on them being closer to 14 and they sure as shit weren't 19 in your pillsbury dough boy pics. ::)
point i'm making is, why lie?
that's my only issue with guys like you and adam. great that you're asking questions and testing things but then you lie about the results ???
your whole point is that measurements and weight mean nothing and that being leaner makes you look bigger, but when asked about measurements, you make shit up. :-\
the thing that you guys just don't get is that when you get caught out in a lie, especially when it is related to the very thing you're trying to disprove, your credibility goes down the shit chute.
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You realize their whole premise is a lie.
well it certainly appears that way, but i guess i'm a sucker when i see the word 'proof' in the title of a thread.
should have know when i saw that word. you know, like 'proof' of aliens, 'proof' of big foot, 'proof' of anything abeles says. :-[
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heh, yup...imo, people like Milos or Disgusted have a bit better info ::)
now come on garraeth, you do realize that you're supposed to weigh less than 200lbs right? ::)
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I don't really want to get into a pissing match with anyone but I'll make a couple of comments. First, Buttsuck....good job in achieving the condition your after, you obviously believe in what your doing and your dedication is very good.
second, I'd like to see someone flat out prove that you can build muscle in a calorie deficiet, not say "look I look bigger" cause that really proves nothing. the only way to do it is to get your LBM checked before and after, if you start off weighing 200lbs with an LBM of 150lbs and end up weighing 170lbs with an LBM of 155lbs on a restricted caloric diet than that would be great but just saying you did it doesn't really add up to me......and no I didn't examine every aspect of the pics posted and go "gosh, his arms do look 1/4 of an inch bigger and his chest looks x% bigger", I just think the lower BF gives the illusion of being bigger by exaggerating your proportions. I'm not ripping on you that's just an observation.
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I can assure you they are NOT photshopped.
He owns just about everyone with his structure.
he may owns you , thats about it, you crazy fuck
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A champion of what ? The one that is too stupid is you my faggoty friend... Butthole is very lean ..But...That's it.... He was already lean ... So...what's the difference ? Where's the progress...If he would have gained 7 to 8 pds..While staying lean ....That would have been progress...!
Didn't you say..That you were going to beef up.. while staying under a certain percentage of bodyfat?
Just because ..People don't believe the smelly shit that you spew out of that asshole you call a mouth ..Doesn't mean they are stupid..
You've been caught in so many lies and contradictions...I wouldn't believe you if you had the proof in your hands while in front of me..
You're a fucking fag..That's all I see when I look at your posts and pics..As well as BASTurd,Butthole ans Squab..You're all a bunch of cocksuckers..
100% on point ;D ;D
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You mean you can maintain in a calorie defecit.
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=154774.0;attach=173043;image)
I didn't care for 'Home Alone", but could you do the face?
:D
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Here is another intresting picture. I tried a carb up to see if it exists. One picture is carbed up and the other is not. I followed layne nortons precise intructions. You guys tell me which picture is carbed up. Yet another bodybuilding myth proven false.
Buttsuck you need to move to Africa you will look like everyone else but white, ha ha ha
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now come on garraeth, you do realize that you're supposed to weigh less than 200lbs right? ::)
we are? damn........ :(
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As I have said, and many others as well, step on stage. Compare yourself to others. See how your "non suffering" prep does for you. You saw no change because you werent not lean enough. The carb-up is PURELY cosmetic. Also, there are numerous ways to do it. Reasearch shitloading for example.
You say you see striations when you get a pump. If you were lean enough, the striations should show WITHOUT a pump. See any in your legs? How about the vascularity in the lower abs? Can you see the division in the gastrocs yet? Pinch your kidney area? How thick is the skin? That will tell you if you are lean enough. How did you guage this 2% body-fat loss you claim?
Pretty much gonna wash my hands of this thread. Again, until you go through the whole process, and not turn this into a "I look lean enough to pose in mens health" kind of thing, you really dont know what can happen. The same goes for Adam.
You obviously have a good bit of expertise, but I think you and a lot of other subscribers to the conventional BBing wisdom of clean bulking and clean cutting are missing something. You go on short intense diets and mannage to get to very low levels of subcutaneous BF but you don't diet long enough to lose the IAF and develop the tight waist that someone like buttsuck (why did you pick that name LOL) has.
Now another thing you neglect to consider is that buttsuck is not cutting water in these pics, so you should not attempt to gauge his BF by comparing him with contest prepped individuals who have cut water.
-sS
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I'd like to see someone flat out prove that you can build muscle in a calorie deficiet,
from my experience. the last 5 months i have 'gained muscle' and 'strength' while being in a calorie deficit which made even bigger by the massive amounts of cardio.
the main thing i can see the actual muscle gain is in calves, i developed and gained muscle i didnt have before. some in my back and shoulders too. this muscle that was not there before. especially in calve area.
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from my experience. the last 5 months i have 'gained muscle' and 'strength' while being in a calorie deficit which made even bigger by the massive amounts of cardio.
the main thing i can see the actual muscle gain is in calves, i developed and gained muscle i didnt have before. some in my back and shoulders too. this muscle that was not there before. especially in calve area.
before and after measurements on your calves? Are you sure you're just not seeing an improvement in definition? Lower BF will often create an illusion of bigger muscles simply cause you can see them where before you couldn't. I've seen guys who look like monsters but were wrestling at 120lbs, not big at all but they looked impressive cause they were ripped.
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Only thing different is the terrible haircut. Good job at losing a half percent of bodyfat and gaining nothing.
It's kind of cute you think you have your own fat loss method but it really isnt very beneficial.
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Still sitting at home with nothing better to do then make immature commentary towards me aye rico? I think its time to grow up.
And quit putting oil in your arms*
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I believe the whole body should be trained as often as possible. Although rest is very important, the body must have constant resistance. Idealy a gravity suit would be best but since this doesn't exist to myu knowledge i train every day of the week. The key is to keep the weight light. I only do bench press with at most 155 pounds but when you are doing that for 100 reps you will get the stimulation you need. Overall a typical workout for chest or arms ends up totaling to be about 510 reps per muscle group. I also no longer do the heavy power lifts (bench is an exception) as they use other muscle groups i feel are not neccesary when i want to isolate a certain muscle. I think deadlifts for the most part are useless.
what leg exercises do you favor?
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How is it my own? This is how everyone cuts?
Not everyone builds muscle when they cut. ive never heard of it.
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Protien synthesis does not stop in a caloric defecit.
That doesnt stop your muscles being burnt as energy though?
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Muscle is an inefficient fuel source.
That doesnt keep it from getting burnt.
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There is clear fat loss there. Just look at the waists. I have also gained muscle. I believe muscle growth is not dependent on calorie intake or protien consumption but frequency of lifting.
You must provide you're body with protein it makes up half of your dry weight in your body. It's been proven that within every six months every protein molecule is broken down and reproduced. When you sweat, protein is lost. When you exercise red blood cells are destroyed. When that happens guess whats used to relace them? Proteins.
Your body is very dependant of proteins.
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I've actually now started aiming more for a leg pump as opposed to squats. I do leg press and pump it out and then i do single legged leg presses and then leg extensions. My legs do need much work and it is something im going to have to play around with. I will probably start training them every other day if neccesary to get them to catch up.
try one legged: squats, deadlifts, leg raises in all directions (with an ankle weight as you get stronger)
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Muscle is an inefficient fuel source.
so if you're in a caloric deficiet I take it you're body is gonna use 100% of the calories it takes in for maintinance and continuing your daily bodily functions, next if you use your theories you'll burn BF to take care of the rest of your energy requirements.....where's the fuel coming from to build muscle?
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so if you're in a caloric deficiet I take it you're body is gonna use 100% of the calories it takes in for maintinance and continuing your daily bodily functions, next if you use your theories you'll burn BF to take care of the rest of your energy requirements.....where's the fuel coming from to build muscle?
BODYFAT!!!! AND THE CALORIES YOU DO COnsume. Considering that we're talking about gaining 2-4lbs of muscle per year on a day to day basis it really isn't that much.
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BODYFAT!!!! AND THE CALORIES YOU DO COnsume. Considering that we're talking about gaining 2-4lbs of muscle per year on a day to day basis it really isn't that much.
wouldn't the BF be used for more important things that the caloric deficiet is limiting? I'm not an expert on this kind of stuff but wouldn't the bodies last priority be to add muscle in this scenerio? especially once you get down to single digit BF levels, how much BF can you draw from in a day? Let's say your maintanance level for calorie consumption is 2000-just a number off the top of my head-and you're taking in 800 calories a day, you're saying that BF is gonna make up for that 1200 calories and be able to build muscle at the same time? why not just figure out you're maintinance level and eat that everyday, maintain bodily functions with food and let BF take up the muscle buiding slack? isn't your metabolism eventually gonna slow down while on this extended caloric restriction?
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wouldn't the BF be used for more important things that the caloric deficiet is limiting? I'm not an expert on this kind of stuff but wouldn't the bodies last priority be to add muscle in this scenerio? especially once you get down to single digit BF levels, how much BF can you draw from in a day? Let's say your maintanance level for calorie consumption is 2000-just a number off the top of my head-and you're taking in 800 calories a day, you're saying that BF is gonna make up for that 1200 calories and be able to build muscle at the same time? why not just figure out you're maintinance level and eat that everyday, maintain bodily functions with food and let BF take up the muscle buiding slack? isn't your metabolism eventually gonna slow down while on this extended caloric restriction?
yes metabolism will slow, which may be one of the reasons for the longevity benefits of caloric restriction.
If you are stressing your muscles with intense lifting then rebuilding muscle will be a high priority task for the body
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yes metabolism will slow, which may be one of the reasons for the longevity benefits of caloric restriction.
If you are stressing your muscles with intense lifting then rebuilding muscle will be a high priority task for the body
at expense of what? how many calories does it take to repair the damage from an intense training session an then build additional mucle on top of that, not to mention BS was doing cardio on top of that, didn't he say his workouts were like 52 sets? Ok, how many calories did he expend during that time? Let's say 300, plus the cardio he did...let's say he burnt 200 calories doing that...so that leaves him 300 calories to maintain all of his bodily functions, plus supply energy to convert BF into glucose and all that other jive and you're gonna tell me that after all of that the body still has "building muscle" as a priority? Again, unless one of you guys gets your lean body mass checked at point A takes in 800 calories for a few months drops down to say 6% BF, get's your LBM checked again and there is an increase I'm just not gonna buy it.....I'm not ripping you guys, it just doesn't add up to me.
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yes metabolism will slow, which may be one of the reasons for the longevity benefits of caloric restriction.
If you are stressing your muscles with intense lifting then rebuilding muscle will be a high priority task for the body
Training causes red blood cells to die. You must replace them. Exercise increases nutrient exchange. You will lose more than you gain in a caloric deficit.
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at expense of what? how many calories does it take to repair the damage from an intense training session an then build additional mucle on top of that, not to mention BS was doing cardio on top of that, didn't he say his workouts were like 52 sets? Ok, how many calories did he expend during that time? Let's say 300, plus the cardio he did...let's say he burnt 200 calories doing that...so that leaves him 300 calories to maintain all of his bodily functions, plus supply energy to convert BF into glucose and all that other jive and you're gonna tell me that after all of that the body still has "building muscle" as a priority? Again, unless one of you guys gets your lean body mass checked at point A takes in 800 calories for a few months drops down to say 6% BF, get's your LBM checked again and there is an increase I'm just not gonna buy it.....I'm not ripping you guys, it just doesn't add up to me.
I actually said that I don't think BS gained any muscle from his picks. At 800 cals a day + intense exercise I think you will lose BF and maintain your muscle, I agree that adding muscle will not be possible
this is not to say that adding muscle wouldn't be possible at 1800 cals for somebody with a maintenance level of 2200 or similar.
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I actually said that I don't think BS gained any muscle from his picks. At 800 cals a day + intense exercise I think you will lose BF and maintain your muscle, I agree that adding muscle will not be possible
this is not to say that adding muscle wouldn't be possible at 1800 cals for somebody with a maintenance level of 2200 or similar.
again I'm not an expert at this kind of stuff but it still doesn't add up number wise to me-I'm not fighting with you guys I'm just trying to make sense of this and understand where you're coming from. Are there studies to support this? Que up adonis with his google-fu....and no I'm not gonna search for it on my own.....
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I only did the 800 calories for a week due to the fact that my diet had to end the next week. I don't normally run it that low. Normally it is 1500 or so and as of now it is 2200 and im still losing weight from my rebound. I never said 800 cals was good for building muscle.
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again I'm not an expert at this kind of stuff but it still doesn't add up number wise to me-I'm not fighting with you guys I'm just trying to make sense of this and understand where you're coming from. Are there studies to support this? Que up adonis with his google-fu....and no I'm not gonna search for it on my own.....
well to know if it added up numberwise we would really need to know exactly how the body prioritizes. I'm not sure about that, I just know from personal experience that it is possible (not very strong proof to anyone else, I know), and I also know that caloire restricted mice have more muscle than their non-restricted peers, I could find the study on that if I had a little time (or you could find it if you wanted to run a search on my posts).
Maybe Adonis has the info on the tip of his finger tips.
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well to know if it added up numberwise we would really need to know exactly how the body prioritizes. I'm not sure about that, I just know from personal experience that it is possible (not very strong proof to anyone else, I know), and I also know that caloire restricted mice have more muscle than their non-restricted peers, I could find the study on that if I had a little time (or you could find it if you wanted to run a search on my posts).
Maybe Adonis has the info on the tip of his finger tips.
not to argue but mice aren't BB.....
I'm not a scientist, I'm not a dieting expert but I pay some attention to alot of things that go on here and other boards so I know a little bit. I know you guys love to dog out anyone who's not single digit BF levels and that's fine....whatever gets you going....BUT I doubt "joe average" BB is gonna put on any significant muscle following this type of program, that's just an off the cuff observation. Will you get leaner? sure you will, I don't think anyone is debating that. Problem is 9/10ths of the guys that come here want to be "big" so this type of program would never work for them. Being lean is something that is secondary for most guys, most will worry about that when contest time rolls around.
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This thread should be renamed "Proof you can be delusional in a calorie defecit"!!
haha ;D
E
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Seriously guys i wanna know, would losing 2 inches off your calves while cutting be considered excessive if your bodyfat was not redicously high. Like even if you were at say near 20%, would you lose 2 inches?
maybe he didn't train calves, alot don't
E
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not to argue but mice aren't BB.....
I'm not a scientist, I'm not a dieting expert but I pay some attention to alot of things that go on here and other boards so I know a little bit. I know you guys love to dog out anyone who's not single digit BF levels and that's fine....whatever gets you going....BUT I doubt "joe average" BB is gonna put on any significant muscle following this type of program, that's just an off the cuff observation. Will you get leaner? sure you will, I don't think anyone is debating that. Problem is 9/10ths of the guys that come here want to be "big" so this type of program would never work for them. Being lean is something that is secondary for most guys, most will worry about that when contest time rolls around.
most guys here want to look Muscular. There are only two ways to do that, using drugs and getting huge, or staying natural and creating the illusion of size by cultivating some muscle growth and maintaining a very tapered waist line. People are counfused and think that even though they are natural they can get huge and muscular but they end up looking like 240 or Squadfather, just a thick normal guy.
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You obviously have a good bit of expertise, but I think you and a lot of other subscribers to the conventional BBing wisdom of clean bulking and clean cutting are missing something. You go on short intense diets and mannage to get to very low levels of subcutaneous BF but you don't diet long enough to lose the IAF and develop the tight waist that someone like buttsuck (why did you pick that name LOL) has.
Now another thing you neglect to consider is that buttsuck is not cutting water in these pics, so you should not attempt to gauge his BF by comparing him with contest prepped individuals who have cut water.
-sS
Actually....I dont "bulk" or "cut". I hate those terms. I maintain a reasonable bodyfat off season, and then go into contest diet mode. I prescribe the opinion that those who are 'bulking' are simply using it as an excuse to be a fat POS.
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If you were to blast off into outspace and land on a planet with more gravity then earth you would most certainly gain muscle. This is the purpose of a 7 day a week workout program with only one day rest for a muscle. It is the same reason astronauts must excercise when they are in space. Due to less gravity the muscle is not used and shrinks.
ummm....ok, what does that have to do with being in a defiecet and gaining muscle? you put those guys on a planet with 3x earths gravity and limit thier calories and I'd bet that you'd have a bunch of tired guys on your hands, woulld they build musc....wait a sec, what the hell am I talking about, this is a completely hypothetical arguement and really has no bearing on anything we've discussed in this thread.
explain what your statement hs to do with building muscle while training like a BB and doing cardio in a drastic caloric defieciet.
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You go on short intense diets and mannage to get to very low levels of subcutaneous BF but you don't diet long enough to lose the IAF and develop the tight waist that someone like buttsuck (why did you pick that name LOL) has.
Now another thing you neglect to consider is that buttsuck is not cutting water in these pics, so you should not attempt to gauge his BF by comparing him with contest prepped individuals who have cut water.
As a follow up....I agree about the water thing. But thats something he (and Adam) should consider. The chemistry behind water, sodium, carbs, etc. that happens when stepping on a stage. This is not the traditional carbing up that was supposed to help for running. Bodybuilders do not derive any benefit (so to speak) from the carb-up beyond a cosmetic change. Agree?
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I know i wasn't lean enough and yes, i had vasculairty in my lower abs. I still had a good 5 pounds to go and even then i probably wouldn't have been lean enough. The point is the changes are coming. It has only been about 2 months. The changes have come faster due to being lean.
Again...HOW DID YOU GUAGE THIS 2% YOU CLAIM? Care to answer that? As far as why you dont do deadlifts...again....exp lain WHY.
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You can take steroids and eat a 1500 calorie diet and make excellent gains. Why? Because steroids increase protien synthesis, water retention, and protien synthesis doesn't stop in a calorie defecit.
Show the proof that it doesnt stop. Show it on humans. Show it on a trained athlete.
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Caliper (yes i know it is inaccurate but i see many visible changes too). As for deadlifts i never felt i got any real benefit out of them. You can only lift heavy with them if you have a huge waist and the leaner i got the harder they got. I was deadlifting over twice my body weight and it got to where i said what is the point? I felt the only they that got worked were my hamstrings and glutes and i was doing back day so i dropped them from my routine. I think isolation is the best way to stimulate a muscle.
I would submit that if you only felt them in the glutes and hams....that your deadlift was one of a stiff-legged variety. As far as only being able to go heavy, try doing them high rep then. You dont have to have a 'huge waist' to do them. Thats just utter nonsense. YOU may find them to be ineffective for you, but this does NOT apply to EVERYONE. Just like your adam-ish ideas on dieting. As a poke at you, I think you should be called The_Xerox_Bug because you spout things off almost verbatum of what Adam says. Again, what you do is what you do. You feel it works for you, so by all means GO AHEAD. Just understand and ACCEPT that there is ONE RIGHT WAY to do things. The 20+ years I have been involved in this mess has taught me that.
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If it stopped wouldn't you eventually die if you continued to eat 1500 calories? I don't know im just trying to connect the dots here, correct me if im wrong.
Actually.....this is the only study I have ever found on hypocaloric intake and muscle gain. The thing here is, they did the study on somewhat untrained individuals. So, who knows what will happen with someone who is currently exercising.
Effect of a Hypocaloric Diet, Increased Protein Intake and Resistance Training on Lean Mass Gains and Fat Mass Loss in Overweight Police Officers
Robert H. Demling, Leslie DeSanti
Brigham and Women's Hospital, Boston, Mass., USA
Address of Corresponding Author
Annals of Nutrition & Metabolism 2000;44:21-29 (DOI: 10.1159/000012817)
goto top of page Key Words
* Body composition
* Nutrition
* Milk protein isolates
* Lean body mass
goto top of page Abstract
We compare the effects of a moderate hypocaloric, high-protein diet and resistance training, using two different protein supplements, versus hypocaloric diet alone on body compositional changes in overweight police officers. A randomized, prospective 12-week study was performed comparing the changes in body composition produced by three different treatment modalities in three study groups. One group (n = 10) was placed on a nonlipogenic, hypocaloric diet alone (80% of predicted needs). A second group (n = 14) was placed on the hypocaloric diet plus resistance exercise plus a high-protein intake (1.5 g/kg/day) using a casein protein hydrolysate. In the third group (n = 14) treatment was identical to the second, except for the use of a whey protein hydrolysate. We found that weight loss was approximately 2.5 kg in all three groups. Mean percent body fat with diet alone decreased from a baseline of 27 ± 1.8 to 25 ± 1.3% at 12 weeks. With diet, exercise and casein the decrease was from 26 ± 1.7 to 18 ± 1.1% and with diet, exercise and whey protein the decrease was from 27 ± 1.6 to 23 ± 1.3%. The mean fat loss was 2.5 ± 0.6, 7.0 ± 2.1 and 4.2 ± 0.9 kg in the three groups, respectively. Lean mass gains in the three groups did not change for diet alone, versus gains of 4 ± 1.4 and 2 ± 0.7 kg in the casein and whey groups, respectively. Mean increase in strength for chest, shoulder and legs was 59 ± 9% for casein and 29 ± 9% for whey, a significant group difference. This significant difference in body composition and strength is likely due to improved nitrogen retention and overall anticatabolic effects caused by the peptide components of the casein hydrolysate.
Copyright © 2000 S. Karger AG, Basel
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I am merely sharing my experiences in the 2 years i have been doing this. Im not trying to cram my beliefs down anyones throats but i do know one thing for certain and that is putting on excessive amounts of fat and thinking it is muscle has no benefit to you when you do cut down.
a/s/l?
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Putting on excessive amounts of fat and thinking it is muscle has no benefit to you when you do cut down.
There is no argument here on that.
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a/s/l?
HA HA HA HA....thats some old school AOL shit right there.
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I am here mainly to get rid of all the myths that circulate the community. Things like "you have to eat every 2 hours to maintain a positive nitrogen balance" or "you don't count plant protien because it is incomplete". These things are absurd and im tired of delusionites walking around telling them. This is partly why the bodybuilding community has a bad reputation.
My question would be this.....I think I saw that you maintain yourself on 1500 cals. For one week do this:
Eat one meal at 1000, and another at 500. Thats it. Do this for one week straight. If what you are claiming is true, then you should have no problem. Yes? You can even eat the 500 calorie meal after your workout because there are NUMEROUS studies on post workout nutrition. Then again, you probably dont believe those either.
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I am here mainly to get rid of all the myths that circulate the community. Things like "you have to eat every 2 hours to maintain a positive nitrogen balance" or "you don't count plant protien because it is incomplete". These things are absurd and im tired of delusionites walking around telling them. This is partly why the bodybuilding community has a bad reputation.
What happened to your buttsuck gimmick? :) :D ;D
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As I have said, and many others as well, step on stage. Compare yourself to others. See how your "non suffering" prep does for you. You saw no change because you werent not lean enough. The carb-up is PURELY cosmetic. Also, there are numerous ways to do it. Reasearch shitloading for example.
You say you see striations when you get a pump. If you were lean enough, the striations should show WITHOUT a pump. See any in your legs? How about the vascularity in the lower abs? Can you see the division in the gastrocs yet? Pinch your kidney area? How thick is the skin? That will tell you if you are lean enough. How did you guage this 2% body-fat loss you claim?
Pretty much gonna wash my hands of this thread. Again, until you go through the whole process, and not turn this into a "I look lean enough to pose in mens health" kind of thing, you really dont know what can happen. The same goes for Adam.
LOLOL Research Shitloading. As if that is a scientific term. LOLOL Curt, you are killing me here! I am rolling on the floor laughing.
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The Journals of Gerontology Series A: Biological Sciences and Medical Sciences 61:781-794 (2006)
© 2006 The Gerontological Society of America
Calorie Restriction in Mice: Effects on Body Composition, Daily Activity, Metabolic Rate, Mitochondrial Reactive Oxygen Species Production, and Membrane Fatty Acid Composition
Sally C. Faulks, Nigel Turner, Paul L. Else and A. J. Hulbert
1 Metabolic Research Centre, and 2 School of Biological Sciences, 3 Department of Biomedical Sciences, University of Wollongong, New South Wales, Australia.
Address correspondence to A. J. Hulbert, PhD, DSc, School of Biological Sciences, University of Wollongong, Wollongong, NSW 2522, Australia. E-mail: hulbert@uow.edu.au
Different levels of calorie restriction (CR) (125, 85, 50, or 40 kcal/wk for 1, 3, and 6 months) were examined in mice by using the paradigm of Weindruch and colleagues. Lean and total body mass increased on 125 and 85 kcal/wk, but there was negligible growth on low-energy intake. There was no CR-induced reduction in either daily activity or mass-specific metabolic rate. There was no CR-effect on in vitro reactive oxygen species production by liver or muscle mitochondria at 3 months, but after 6 months the effect was significantly reduced in liver mitochondria from 40 kcal/wk mice compared to 125 kcal/wk mice. Changes in the fatty acid composition of phospholipids from liver, kidneys, heart, brain, and skeletal muscle were observed following 1 month of CR.
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Calorie restriction shown to boost longevity and slow loss of muscle mass in animal experiment
Monday, July 10, 2006 by: NewsTarget
(NewsTarget) A study recently published in the Journal of Gerontology: Biological Sciences suggests that eating less may help people stay strong even in old age.
Scientists from the University of Calgary found that rats fed a nutritious, calorie-restricted diet maintained their muscle mass much better than rats that ate a normal amount of food. "It's the equivalent of an 80-year-old rat with the muscles of a 20-year-old rat," said Russ Hepple, a physiologist at the University of Calgary.
Although it is well-documented that a low calorie diet increases life expectancy, this is the first study showing a connection between diet and strength. In Hepple's experiment, rats that consumed a low calorie diet lost only 20 percent of their muscle mass as they aged, with no loss of muscle function. Rats fed a normal diet lost 50 percent of their strength and 50 percent of their muscle function as they aged.
Researchers are still trying to understand how a low calorie diet preserves muscles. Experiments performed so far seem to show that cutting calories helps the mitochondria function better, which improves the rats ability to rebuild and replace cells as they age. Hepple's next study will focus on antioxidants, exercise and gene therapy to see how these areas affect muscle maintenance.
While cutting calories by 40 percent showed significant improvement in the study rats, Hepple does not recommend such severe calorie restriction for the average person. He encourages people to eat a healthy diet and stay active throughout their lives.
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just a quick question for the people who think you can grow off a calorie deficit
how do you explain the guys who come to the gym every other day...and look the same month after month.
theres this one kid i see in my gym (looks under 18...probably has a high metabolism)...he's been coming to the gym consistently for about a year (at least i see him almost every time i'm there)..and he looks exactly the same as he did last year.
The first thing that came to my head was this kid isn't eating enough...because there's no way someone can workout 3-4 times a week, and not make any visible changes. Im sure everyone has atleast 2 or 3 of these guys in their gyms.
It just doesn't make sense that you can gain tissue on a sub-maintenance diet
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just a quick question for the people who think you can grow off a calorie deficit
how do you explain the guys who come to the gym every other day...and look the same month after month.
theres this one kid i see in my gym (looks under 18...probably has a high metabolism)...he's been coming to the gym consistently for about a year (at least i see him almost every time i'm there)..and he looks exactly the same as he did last year.
The first thing that came to my head was this kid isn't eating enough...because there's no way someone can workout 3-4 times a week, and not make any visible changes. Im sure everyone has atleast 2 or 3 of these guys in their gyms.
It just doesn't make sense that you can gain tissue on a sub-maintenance diet
He is under 18 and his Testosterone is just now kicking in.
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Looking good, bro. Keep up the good work and keep us posted on your continued results.
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140 lbs.
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I also have TONS of human studies for those interested. These are just a few of my favorite.
HUMAN STUDIES
Toward a unified theory of caloric restriction and longevity regulation.
Gene expression profiling studies of aging in cardiac and skeletal muscles.
Short-term very low calorie diet reduces oxidative stress in obese type 2 diabetic patients.
The influence of calorie restriction during the Ramadan fast on serum fructosamine and the formation of beta hydroxybutirate in type 2 diabetes mellitus patients.
Energy restriction and aging.
An introduction to nutritional treatment in inborn errors of metabolism--different disorders, different approaches.
Calorie restriction, aging, and cancer prevention: mechanisms of action and applicability to humans.
Is there an antiaging medicine?
Endogenous oxidative stress: relationship to aging, longevity and caloric restriction.
Neuroendocrine and pharmacological manipulations to assess how caloric restriction increases life span.
Leptin and anti-aging action of caloric restriction.
The calorically restricted low-fat nutrient-dense diet in Biosphere 2 significantly lowers blood glucose, total leukocyte count, cholesterol, and blood pressure in humans.
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You can take steroids and eat a 1500 calorie diet and make excellent gains. Why? Because steroids increase protien synthesis, water retention, and protien synthesis doesn't stop in a calorie defecit.
I don't believe the gains you would make eating 1500 calories a day are anything like what they would be if you ate a more traditional BB diet, especially if you're natural. Roids will work but you still need building blocks, it's simple math and it has to add up.
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I don't believe the gains you would make eating 1500 calories a day are anything like what they would be if you ate a more traditional BB diet, especially if you're natural. Roids will work but you still need building blocks, it's simple math and it has to add up.
the thing is without roids (or myostatin inhibhition) you just can't gain muscle very fast, you can be eating 3750 clean calories spread out over 8 meals and if you are an experienced trainer you still won't gain more than 3 or 4 pounds of muscle in a year if you're lucky.
the thing is, if you eat that much you will gain a load of fat.
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LOLOL Research Shitloading. As if that is a scientific term. LOLOL Curt, you are killing me here! I am rolling on the floor laughing.
Adam if you REALLY think I meant research it on pub-med then I would seriously question your common sense skills. I meant research it on various message boards to get an idea of some approaches to the whole carb up. Laugh if you want......I will refrain from my reaction to your methodology, ok?
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The Journals of Gerontology Series A: Biological Sciences and Medical Sciences 61:781-794 (2006)
© 2006 The Gerontological Society of America
Calorie Restriction in Mice: Effects on Body Composition, Daily Activity, Metabolic Rate, Mitochondrial Reactive Oxygen Species Production, and Membrane Fatty Acid Composition
Sally C. Faulks, Nigel Turner, Paul L. Else and A. J. Hulbert
1 Metabolic Research Centre, and 2 School of Biological Sciences, 3 Department of Biomedical Sciences, University of Wollongong, New South Wales, Australia.
Address correspondence to A. J. Hulbert, PhD, DSc, School of Biological Sciences, University of Wollongong, Wollongong, NSW 2522, Australia. E-mail: hulbert@uow.edu.au
Different levels of calorie restriction (CR) (125, 85, 50, or 40 kcal/wk for 1, 3, and 6 months) were examined in mice by using the paradigm of Weindruch and colleagues. Lean and total body mass increased on 125 and 85 kcal/wk, but there was negligible growth on low-energy intake. There was no CR-induced reduction in either daily activity or mass-specific metabolic rate. There was no CR-effect on in vitro reactive oxygen species production by liver or muscle mitochondria at 3 months, but after 6 months the effect was significantly reduced in liver mitochondria from 40 kcal/wk mice compared to 125 kcal/wk mice. Changes in the fatty acid composition of phospholipids from liver, kidneys, heart, brain, and skeletal muscle were observed following 1 month of CR.
Keep quoting your mice studies adam. Remember, I can pull studies just like you are doing. I would like for you to find the study that shows HYPERTROPHY IN A HUMAN IN A HYPOCALORIC STATE. Or even better yet, one that shows that exercise induced proteolysis does not occur in trained individuals in a hypocaloric state. The onus is on you for a number of things right now.
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I also have TONS of human studies for those interested. These are just a few of my favorite.
HUMAN STUDIES
Toward a unified theory of caloric restriction and longevity regulation.
Gene expression profiling studies of aging in cardiac and skeletal muscles.
Short-term very low calorie diet reduces oxidative stress in obese type 2 diabetic patients.
The influence of calorie restriction during the Ramadan fast on serum fructosamine and the formation of beta hydroxybutirate in type 2 diabetes mellitus patients.
Energy restriction and aging.
An introduction to nutritional treatment in inborn errors of metabolism--different disorders, different approaches.
Calorie restriction, aging, and cancer prevention: mechanisms of action and applicability to humans.
Is there an antiaging medicine?
Endogenous oxidative stress: relationship to aging, longevity and caloric restriction.
Neuroendocrine and pharmacological manipulations to assess how caloric restriction increases life span.
Leptin and anti-aging action of caloric restriction.
The calorically restricted low-fat nutrient-dense diet in Biosphere 2 significantly lowers blood glucose, total leukocyte count, cholesterol, and blood pressure in humans.
Very appropriate.....2 studies on diabetics......
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;D
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He is under 18 and his Testosterone is just now kicking in.
what?
what about puberty? not everyone starts growing pubes at 24, like you.
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what?
what about puberty? not everyone starts growing pubes at 24, like you.
puberty is finished with a surge of testosterone.
see my thread on permabulkers for more info.
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one thing that adam and the bugs aren'tfactoring in here is the fact that maintaining muscle in a calorie deficit (and that is the most positive conclusion i can attain from this entire thread) is dependant on the subject preserving a very average amount of muscle mass.
yes, the body WILL preserve a certain amount of muscle mass in a calorie deficit, but it will very quickly shed excess muscle mass under these conditions in order to preserve life saving fat stores.
the human body is still operating on 'feast or famine'. when you cut calories drastically it thinks you're undergoing famine ie a saber tooth tiger is sitting outside your cave and you have to exist on fat stores for a while, so it says, "gee, do we really need that 230lbs of ripped muscle tissue or is survival more important?"
bug is built like one, i mean 150lbs at 5'11", come on? is that why people take up weight traininig? is that all a natural trainee can expect to achieve? i'm sorry but the pre-existing evidence states otherwise.
the key to bodybuilding is attaining a physique that is big AND lean, not one or the other. this theory is just as flawed as the 'bulk at any cost' one, except in reverse.
i congratulate you if this was a genuine study but, sorry, it's flawed and a little too simplistic.
keep trying though. :)
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LOLOL Research Shitloading. As if that is a scientific term. LOLOL Curt, you are killing me here! I am rolling on the floor laughing.
you're such a tool, it's just a slang term for a particular way of carb loading. Funny how you base everything of science yet when I asked you to take an LBM waaay back before the MGB and take one again a few months later to prove you gained or even maintained muscle on your diet you refused cause you "have your own methods"....I'm sure they have a ton of scientific backing to them ::) ::)
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you're such a tool, it's just a slang term for a particular way of carb loading. Funny how you base everything of science yet when I asked you to take an LBM waaay back before the MGB and take one again a few months later to prove you gained or even maintained muscle on your diet you refused cause you "have your own methods"....I'm sure they have a ton of scientific backing to them ::) ::)
they have done a lot more research on caloric restriction and its effect on lean muscle then they have done about bodybuilding methods.
check the literature.